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Topic: Jay Sankey's Supernatural DVD
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 9, 2006 02:32PM)
Jay Writes:

"Every year we conduct a world-wide survey among our loyal customers and
last year the proposed product that ranked #1 around the world was "a dvd
of non-card, non-coin magic and mentalism." SUPERNATURAL is that dvd!

I call it SUPERNATURAL because it features some of my strongest
magic and mentalism with natural, every day objects. I deliberately didn't
include any effects with playing cards or coins because sometimes you have
to astonish people with something OTHER than cards or coins to feel like a
real magician.

This is without a doubt one of the most powerfully stimulating collections
of magic and mentalism I have ever released! The sixteen killer routines
include powerhouse effects with steel bolts, monopoly money, ping pong
balls, drinking straws, bottle caps, dollar bills, glass capsules,
business cards, fortune cookies, paperclips, notepads, packing bubbles,
finger rings and more!

And most of them I will am revealing for the very first time!

SUPERNATURAL will be released world-wide on November 1".
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 9, 2006 02:51PM)
Chris you always know before me...
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 9, 2006 03:11PM)
Jeasn-Luc, my friend, I have Sankey's other menatlist DVD's, so I just "know".
:rotf:


Best,

Chris
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 9, 2006 04:51PM)
Sounds good :) Hope to see a video demo, I think of course there will Jay Sankey has video demos for almost all his products
Message: Posted by: MagicMan1957 (Oct 10, 2006 01:14AM)
Sankey is a magic producing machine.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 10, 2006 09:30AM)
Is that from his newsletter? I didn't receive it.
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (Oct 10, 2006 01:02PM)
Sankey is a copy and recycling machine and his descriptions always sounds "supernatural". Of course he released some nice effects, but his "mentalism"....not my cup of tea.
Message: Posted by: Platt (Oct 10, 2006 01:34PM)
[quote]
On 2006-10-09 15:32, MagicChris wrote:
Jay Writes:

"This is without a doubt one of the most powerfully stimulating collections
of magic and mentalism I have ever released!!"

[/quote]

I've never heard Sankey say anything like ever before. This should be good.
Message: Posted by: Alex Linian (Oct 10, 2006 02:02PM)
Anyone ever notice Jay Sankey says "without a doubt" a lot?
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 10, 2006 02:27PM)
Definitely. Some of his sales tactcs do get a bit old.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Oct 10, 2006 08:41PM)
"Lord knows..." :)
Message: Posted by: Phil C (Oct 11, 2006 06:44AM)
Sounds very interesting
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 14, 2006 11:39AM)
Here is the DVD content:

"I call this DVD 'SUPERNATURAL' because it features some of my strongest magic and mentalism with natural, every day objects. I deliberately didn't include any effects with playing cards or coins because sometimes you have to astonish people with something OTHER than cards or coins to feel like a real magician." - Jay Sankey

This is without a doubt one of the most powerfully stimulating collections of magic and mentalism Jay has ever released! The sixteen killer routines include knock-out effects with steel bolts, monopoly money, ping pong balls, drinking straws, bottle caps, dollar bills, glass capsules, business cards, fortune cookies, paperclips, notepads, packing bubbles, finger rings and more! And most of them Jay is revealing here the very first time!

* Alchemy Seltzer
* Burden of Proof
* Circumference
* Trinity
* Best Before
* Mismade Monopoly
* How Fortunate
* A Delicate Balance
* Forced Entry
* Around the Bend
* Global Warming
* Air of Mystery
* Double Feature
* Paper Trade
* Glass Menagerie
* X-Ray Vision

Run time: 100 minutes
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 14, 2006 01:35PM)
I so wanna see a demo video for this :)
Message: Posted by: Alan Patrick (Oct 14, 2006 04:26PM)
Jay Sankey is without a doubt one of the most creative minds in magic(and I've been a big fan for many years) however lately it seems that his material isn't up to par ie: "the art of sleight of hand" but I always have faith that he'll put out something that'll redeem him..hopefully Supernatural is it...i'll be patiently waitng....
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 14, 2006 08:17PM)
http://www.MJMMagic.com reports:

SUPERNATURAL by Jay Sankey
This DVD will be released on November 1st! While we are not reserving or setting aside any for people due to its demand, we DO want to know if you're thinking about purchasing it with us. There is no commitment on your part, only an interest in possibly getting it. Remember, we have fast free shipping within the USA and Canada, so if you're simply INTERESTED in possibly getting this from us, send us an email. That way, if we get a lot of requests for it, we will know to stock up extra good for you guys so that we won't run out!
______________________________________________________________________________
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 14, 2006 08:20PM)
See a VIDEO CLIP right now for Supernatural here :



http://www.mjmmagic.com/store/supernatural-by-jay-sankey-p-3459.html
Message: Posted by: Phil C (Oct 15, 2006 12:59AM)
This DVD does not interest me too much actually.
Message: Posted by: juan king (Oct 15, 2006 06:38AM)
I have now just been seeing the clip and I am seeing things that I have been seeing in his latest book and things on other dvds.

I am going to be getting this dvd by stealing it from a shop not by buying it because it is not being worth the money I am thinking. Ha ha.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Oct 15, 2006 07:39AM)
You mean more of the same? .. :) ..
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 15, 2006 08:20AM)
I think there are two or three items on the dvd from his latest lecture notes. The other stuff I'm not familiar with. I might get this as I am always looking for good non coin and card stuff.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 15, 2006 03:24PM)
Anyone find the demo clip annoying?

Chris
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 15, 2006 05:36PM)
Yes. Although, not because of Jay's performance but because of that wavy screen. Cut the FX and just show us the goods.
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Oct 15, 2006 07:07PM)
I would only get this if it has the Cap in Bottle that I read about in another thread. Other then that I think this is his worst Demo/Teaser, It didn't tease and it didn't demo. Basically him talking and I think he had a stomach ache or was nauseous because he had a glass of water and he was all wavy. I think it might be the cap that he had in his mouth. Other then that I didn't get anything.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 15, 2006 07:21PM)
[quote]
On 2006-10-15 20:07, paisa23 wrote:
I would only get this if it has the Cap in Bottle that I read about in another thread. Other then that I think this is his worst Demo/Teaser, It didn't tease and it didn't demo. Basically him talking and I think he had a stomach ache or was nauseous because he had a glass of water and he was all wavy. I think it might be the cap that he had in his mouth. Other then that I didn't get anything.
[/quote]

You summed it up perfectly!

Chris
Message: Posted by: Malus (Oct 15, 2006 09:21PM)
[quote]
On 2006-10-15 16:24, MagicChris wrote:
Anyone find the demo clip annoying?

Chris
[/quote]

Yes,I do think it is kind of annoying. :S I ususally like to watch demo over and over again. But not after I watch this one.
Message: Posted by: in flames (Oct 16, 2006 08:15AM)
[quote]
On 2006-10-10 15:02, Alex Linian wrote:
Anyone ever notice Jay Sankey says "without a doubt" a lot?
[/quote]
How about "If I had to choose 3 effects. This would be one of them".
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 16, 2006 10:33AM)
LOL!

BTW, what cap in bottle effect?
Message: Posted by: BenM (Oct 16, 2006 11:34AM)
I wish Sankey would slow down with his releases (who doesn't?). I mean, how many other creators release twelve DVDs/effects each year? Why doesn't Jay stop releasing for the sake of releasing and slow things down a little bit?
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 16, 2006 04:56PM)
Well, he hasn't released 12 dvds this year. Including this new one, he's released 3 full length dvds in 2006. He's also released 3 tricks.
Message: Posted by: Memory-Jah (Oct 16, 2006 08:23PM)
[quote]
On 2006-10-10 15:02, Alex Linian wrote:
Anyone ever notice Jay Sankey says "without a doubt" a lot?
[/quote]

hehe definately! I wanted to write the same right now lol
Message: Posted by: Effect (Oct 17, 2006 05:21PM)
Ha ha yea it's either that or "boom" to explain when an effect is supposed to hit the spec. "and it's just boom... boom... BOOM, which is so much better than just boom boom boom"

Please God stop saying boom Jay!
Message: Posted by: SeoMagi (Oct 18, 2006 10:27PM)
I forget who on the board said it, but it rang very true and, as an owner of too many Sankey DVD's, made me laugh. To paraphrase, One day, Jay will release a single DVD with all his best effects, and that will be an amazing investment. Until then, his DVD's are hit-or-miss in quality and redundant in material.

That being said, this sure sounds like the kind of thing I'd want to pick up. I'll have to read some reviews though, to see if there will be a lot of repeats.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Oct 19, 2006 02:25PM)
The demo looked annoying, and the effects looked to wierd. The reason card and coin effects are good is because they are always around. The camera work is crazy again. He mentioned that most of the effects are from his working repetiore. He must have nearly 1000 tricks in his repetiore.

Its amazing that no matter how much people complain about his continuing to release stuff, it almost always sells out. It makes you wonder, has he put us under a spell or something.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Oct 19, 2006 04:38PM)
You guys are babies. Don't buy his stuff if you don't like it. I own the vast majority of Sankey's DVD's and there isn't one that doesn't have a number of USABLE tricks on it. Does he reuse different techniques and themes: absolutely. Big deal. The effect on a layperson is rarely the same.

I'm pretty sure this is only his second DVD this year devoted to tricks. By some standards that's a lot. But is it really so much to think that a person whose full-time job is magic might come up with a decent idea once a week? (Which would be about three 19 trick DVDs a year.)

I look at his DVDs as a kind of ongoing video notebook and I'm always happy to support him by picking up his new releases.
Message: Posted by: SeoMagi (Oct 19, 2006 07:09PM)
Wow I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm just saying if that there's a fair bet that this DVD will contain another one of his $100.00 Bill Switch tricks and something vanishing inside flash paper. I don't drop thirty dollars on getting one or two distinctly original tricks out of eight. If you do, I respect your determination and admire your wealth - but there's no reason to step on my toes and call me a "baby."
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Oct 19, 2006 08:20PM)
You didn't offend me. It's my favorite time of year when a Sankey DVD comes out because people fall all over themselves to let everyone know they're not going to get it. I think it's funny.

He does a lot of stuff with the bill switch? Guess what, there was a book released this year devoted to the bill switch -- over 60 effects. There's a lot to be done with the technique.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 3, 2006 09:41AM)
I just got an email from SnakeyMagic.com indicating this is now shipping. Also noticed it on at least one dealer site. Here's the detailed description. If someone already has this, I would love to see an opinion or (even better) a review:

SUPERNATURAL- THE DVD!

ALCHEMY SELTZER
A spectator initials an Alka-Seltzer tablet with a magic marker. The tablet is slowly dissolved in a glass of water. You drink every drop. A minute later you impossibly cough up the tablet, complete with spectator's initials! I have performed this showstopper in bars and restaurants but it is especially strong at a party where I am NOT booked to perform. It totally blurs the line between "performing magician" and "scary supernatural individual!"

BURDEN OF PROOF
A spectator twists a twist-tie into a small, tight loop and then you link it onto your finger ring! The SPECTATOR can untwist the tie and remove the ring. For the very first time I share the complete professional presentation with the all-important psychological pointers.

CIRCUMFERENCE
Great for kids, but I also toss it into my sets when working corporate gigs. A small, flat envelope is introduced. You slip out of the envelope a flat white disc and call it a "deflated ping pong ball." A moment later it's a REAL PING PONG BALL! Then you flattened it and slip it back into the envelope (and finish with empty hands!) The routine really FLOWS. Easy and beautifully VISUAL. I've done it in complete silence or while pattering about some silly nonsense. It hits people in a way that card and coin tricks just can't.

TRINITY
One of the most practical and powerful "bits of mentalism" I've released in quite a while. Your name and the names of two other spectators are written on slips of paper and they are mixed up. With no equivoque or funny moves, the spectator "with some psychic ability" is able to choose the correct slip for all three of you! Very strong, clever structure. And again, easy! One of my very favorite mentalism warm-up effects.

BEST BEFORE
I shared this routine in my monthly e-newsletter several months ago and received a ton of positive e-mails. You send one of those small white plastic tags from a loaf of grocery store bread BACK IN TIME, three times in a row. And at the end, even the 'best before date' changes!
Mind-blowing "impromptu" work.

MISMADE MONOPOLY
Another effect I've been keeping to myself for years. The Mismade Bill concept is great, but it would even be better if, every time you perform the effect you could GIVE THE SCREWED UP BILL AWAY AS A SOUVENIR! Well, now you CAN! And you are going to really like the no-nonsense handling.

HOW FORTUNATE
You divine the fortune in a FREELY SELECTED fortune cookie. Do this one at the right time and place and it will MAKE your reputation!

A DELICATE BALANCE
Inspired by a Paul Harris idea, three bolts are balanced on top of each other, one at a time. Then, all three bolts are magically EPOXY GLUED together and can be immediately handed out for examination!

FORCED ENTRY
Without a doubt one of the best routines on the dvd! A drinking straw is stabbed through the middle of a bottle cap, then the cap is slowly pulled off the end of the straw and allowed to fall directly into a spectator's OWN HAND. The moment the cap hits the spectator's palm, it instantly HEALS ITSELF! And yes, both the cap and the straw can be immediately examined!
I've seriously fried people with this handling at private parties using a BORROWED cap and a BORRWED straw, and that's all people talked about for the rest of the night!

AROUND THE BEND
A paperclip is completely bent out of shape and then mysteriously regains its original shape in an INSANELY VISUAL FASHION!

GLOBAL WARMING
Another off-the-hook mentalist effect. Several small envelopes are introduced with paper money from a different country in each envelope.
The spectator merely THINKS of one of the bills (and again, it is a FREE
choice) and the spectator imagines that bill getting warmer and warmer...when the spectators open all the envelopes they find that only one of the bills has been REDUCED TO ASHES! The bill the spectator was concentrating on! And everything can be examined! I've closed plenty of "intimate performances" with this one.

AIR OF MYSTERY
Funky magical fun! Perfect for the less than totally SERIOUS or DRAMATIC performer. A spectator pops all the bubbles on a small square of packing bubble material, but with just a wave of his hand the magician causes all the popped bubbles to impossibly REFILL WITH AIR!

DOUBLE FEATURE
An outstanding stand-up routine involving a two-phase bill switch handling and a packet of Monopoly "Chance" cards. And again, a killer VISUAL ending!

PAPER TRADE
A startling transposition between the two halves of a torn piece of paper.
In the last few years this has become one of my very favorite "in the spectator's hands" effects. Super easy to do (really just ONE MOVE!) and it even automatically re-sets itself!!!

GLASS MENAGERIE
A slip of paper with the correct prediction literally APPEARS inside a small glass vial. This is a concept with unlimited potential and applications. Laypeople always experience it as REAL MAGIC!

X-RAY VISION
The final effect on the SUPERNATURAL dvd is an extremely simple and marvelously powerful mentalist effect with business cards. You draw a large "X" on the back of one of your own cards and mix it into the stack.
But somehow, when the spectator FREELY chooses any one of the business cards, they discover they've chosen the one with the X! (And there really is only ONE X on the back of ONE CARD in the entire stack!) Another dead easy handling combined with a wonderfully commercial premise.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Nov 3, 2006 06:46PM)
I'm actually very impressed with sankey's strategies since they seem to be working so well. I'm curious to know how many more dvds he can put out before this year ends, that will actually be what he says.

It seems like he's take a bunch of basic moves and using them over and over again to make 100s of effects possible. Pretty cool thinking.
Although I admire those qualities, I do think that there are only a small handful of dvds that truly show what Sankey is capable off. In my opinion his earliest stuff IS the best. The material in Richard's Alamanac is very good and along with his first batch of dvds.

Hopefully there will be some reviews or good reviews on this dvd, since I won't be buying it.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 4, 2006 09:47AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-03 19:46, clamon86 wrote:
It seems like he's take a bunch of basic moves and using them over and over again to make 100s of effects possible. Pretty cool thinking.
Although I admire those qualities, I do think that there are only a small handful of dvds that truly show what Sankey is capable off. In my opinion his earliest stuff IS the best.[/quote]

I have noticed that myself. From what I've heard this one may have some new ideas. I'm hoping that's the case!

-Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: Review King (Nov 4, 2006 11:53PM)
I usualy get whatever he puts out, but I'm standing on the curb on this until reviews come in. Why? The demo clip was so annoying. He really needs a good friend to tell him to use a script of funny, tested material or stop trying to ad- lib.

Chris
Message: Posted by: Trestkon (Nov 5, 2006 02:11AM)
Agreed. He has some great stuff, but if he walked up to my table and acted like he does in half his videos I'd probably run screaming the other way :P
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 5, 2006 10:45AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-05 00:53, MagicChris wrote:
I usualy get whatever he puts out, but I'm standing on the curb on this until reviews come in. Why? The demo clip was so annoying. He really needs a good friend to tell him to use a script of funny, tested material or stop trying to ad- lib.
[/quote]

That's part of what has put me off on ordering this. I don't understand why there couldn't have been a better demo clip. The material itself sounds different than some of his past stuff.

-Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: Gilgamesh_The_Librarian (Nov 5, 2006 01:19PM)
It would be a shame if the presentation put people off investigating the effects. As somebody has already mentioned perhaps Jay needs a friend to point him in the right direction on these demos.

I'm not sure the performers zany presentration style has anything to do with a teaching video, its up to us to put our own style on these tricks . So perhaps Jay needs to look at his teaching style to win over more advocates.
Message: Posted by: Paul Wingham (Nov 5, 2006 06:12PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-05 00:53, MagicChris wrote:
I usualy get whatever he puts out, but I'm standing on the curb on this until reviews come in. Why? The demo clip was so annoying. He really needs a good friend to tell him to use a script of funny, tested material or stop trying to ad- lib.

Chris
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more, You should do what I do with jay sankey tricks/demos,watch them without the sound on. That way you just get the magic without the god awful ad lib comedy.....I use the word comedy in a very loose sense.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Nov 5, 2006 06:45PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-05 03:11, Trestkon wrote:
Agreed. He has some great stuff, but if he walked up to my table and acted like he does in half his videos I'd probably run screaming the other way :P
[/quote]

He had a DVD ( FRONT ROW SANKEY filmed at Toronto's Mr. Greenjean's Restaurant and Bar ) with him doing table hopping and he was very pleasant at the tables. I think he just likes to cut up and ad lib on his teaching videos and it can be annoying when it's not funny.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Nov 5, 2006 09:18PM)
Although Front Row Sankey was decent, I think its among the better dvds he's put out. The material is completely bad, but the presentations aren't great.

I think he was trying to prove that he actually does use a few of the effects he has on his 30 dvds.
Message: Posted by: Darkfrog (Nov 5, 2006 11:30PM)
No matter what you say or think about Sankey's material, at least his videos have more than one effect on them. I am getting very tired of these one shot DVD's that has an effect that should be part of a collection for the amount of money they charge. I'm sorry if I offend, but there is nothing special about Hundy 500, Silver Dream, Box Monster, Greed, Sh4de, etc. etc. etc. or just about 90% of these single effect videos being released lately. It's about as bad as releasing a trilogy of DVDs that could have fit onto two. The only reason to release a 3-fer is to charge more. The other advantage to releasing more tricks on one video is that fewer people will actually know about the one YOU decide is a killer and put in your show. These other effects suffer from overexposure.
</rant>
Message: Posted by: Paul Wingham (Nov 6, 2006 03:27AM)
I'm not the biggest fan of one trick dvds, but Silver dream and box monster are two that I have recently purchased and they show every detail of tricks that have been workhorses to the creators for years. The big difference in my opinion is that I always get the impression Jay sankey invents magic tricks for the sake of releasing dvds.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 6, 2006 10:04AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-06 04:27, Paul Wingham wrote:
I'm not the biggest fan of one trick dvds, but Silver dream and box monster are two that I have recently purchased and they show every detail of tricks that have been workhorses to the creators for years.
[/quote]

I agree. Some single effects require a lot of time to explain all the nuances, possible variations and details in the handling so in these cases an entire DVD dedicated to a single effect is worthwhile. There are others that IMHO, don't justify an entire DVD for the effect.

-Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: Justin N. Miller (Nov 6, 2006 03:36PM)
Even though I am not performing anymore I will periodicly come here to see what is up. Glad I did!

I can tell you for a certainty that Silver Dream and Greed are not JUST one trick dvds. These routines have been the BREAD AND BUTTER of our lives for over 15 years. Sankey ( and I love jay as a person and a magician) does put out a lot of UNFINISHED routines..he just does...but he also puts out some GREAT material, real working material..That being said..I would rather put out 5 one trick dvds each yr. that are the workhorse of my rep. (homer) than put out a 12 dvds that have 14 effects on each and maybe you will be able to pick out 1 or 2 on each one you will actually, might, maybe, if your fortunate, be able to use.
Justin Miller
Message: Posted by: Chicagomagi (Nov 6, 2006 05:23PM)
Ok. Look I'm not a professional and maybe that's where my perspective differs from most. As an amateur/hobbiest I eat up anything Jay puts out because it's usually clever and it makes me think.

The bonus for me is that he often DOES use the same techniques repetitively. Guess what? As an amateur/hobbiest I don't have the time or the fortitude to learn every new technique or all the major old techniques that are out there. My brain is too full of other $#%*. But hey! If I can recycle a technique and turn it into another miracle then great. It's economical and gives me flexibility.

Also, I don't buy this argument that he puts out weak/undeveloped stuff. Again, I think you're buying his thoughts as much as new effects. For instance, I have 3 Ring Circus. As you probably know it contains some additional/filler effects. One of which is a Triumph effect. Well even I know that there are vastly superior Triumphs out there. However, I learned the primary move from this effect, The Paul LePaul Center Reverse. So I don't do that version of a Triumph but I get a ton of mileage out of that one move because I use it for other things - things that I came up with because I spent time with Jay's effect and using my own creativity adapted the move for something else.

To me that's what makes Jay's work so cool.

My 2 cents. I'll probably pick this DVD up soon.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Nov 7, 2006 12:58AM)
Chicagomagi- I do like and respect that you are providing a different about Sankeys work. I do have to say that if you want to think, get a good book and just read a few effects and you'll be thinking.

Slightly off-topic about the 3 ring circus dvd. First of all there's a reason its a stage trick. Its a visually stunning trick to watch many huge rings link together. The fact that the rings are smaller doesn't make it any more of a worker routine. There's a reason that certain magic is only suitable for close-up and stage.
Also what I don't get is the purpose of the bonus material. What's the point of putting a few card tricks after you show the ring routine. It doesn't fit the dvd at all. If you want to focus on the ring routine, why distract people with filler card or whatever else material. Put material where it belongs, not just to fill mroe space.
Lastly if you like the LePaul move, don't watch someone else do it, get one of the best books ever printed, The Magic of Paul LePaul for $15 or so.

just my two centavos
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Nov 7, 2006 12:47PM)
Man, I hate Jay Sankey. Who does he think he is releasing two whole DVDs in one year? The nerve of that guy. And he uses the same moves over and over! Yeah, maybe they're different effects, but they're the same moves.

Know who else I hate? Dai Vernon. What a jerk! I got one of his books and it was like, "double-lift this" and "top-change that." Hey buddy, get some new moves will ya?!

But the bane of my existance is Theodore Annemann. This guy produced a weekly magic magazine. Hey ya bum, who are you to decide what you release and what you don't release? Don't you know I make that choice for everybody? Geez louise! [I'm shaking my fist at the sky.]
Message: Posted by: Chicagomagi (Nov 7, 2006 01:06PM)
Clamon, I also respect your opinion and thank you for your addition to this thread, although I do agree we're taking this a little off track. Also, please don't take this the wrong way but I take a little offense at being told to "get a good book...and you'll really be thinking" and "don't watch someone else do it..."

First off, in my original post, I was defending Jay by saying that I'm tired of hearing people complain, "Sankey is too prolific. His DVDs are full of undeveloped/filler material." Yada Yada Yada. My point in all this is - I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I LIKE HIS STUFF!

Now to your suggestions. I agree books are a great inspirational medium. (I actually recommend Sankey's books with many of the other classics.) But does that mean you can't be inspired from watching a video? Personally, I get more inspired when I can see the performance, hear the patter, study the misdirection and audience reaction.

As for 3 Ring Circus, we can debate the preference of the Rings all day. I personally find the stage rings uninspiring unless you're going to do a routine like Whit Hayden's. However, the rings closeup, inches from the face (after being inspected) and in the hands, to me, is masterful.

Now the filler material... I viewed it as getting a bonus with my purchase of the ring routine. You thought it odd or a waste. To each his own. If it'd just been the rings and instructional DVD by itself, I'd have been okay with that. But I think it's to Jay's credit that he gave the customer a little more. I don't think he ever thought, "Gee, nobody's gonna buy this piece of crap DVD if I don't give them another trick using the Vernon Substitute Transfer."

Finally I appreciate your advice on the LePaul book, but in truth, I already have it. Until I saw the move on 3 Ring Circus though I never saw the power of the move or the way to really use it properly.
Message: Posted by: Kevvy (Nov 7, 2006 02:40PM)
I can understand Clamon's point regarding the bonus material on 3 Ring Circus seeming a bit out of place. But I agree with Chicagomagi that it would have been a good dvd without the bonus effects. (For those that like linking ring routines)
I don't view the bonus effects as filler. In fact, Dowsing is one of my favorite Sankey effects.

I bought 3 Ring Circus because several people mentioned that Dowsing was a good impromptu OOTW. I wasn't really interested in the Ring effects. I figured that I might possibly like some of the other bonus effects too. As it turned out, a couple of the bonus routines were my favorites. (Dowsing and Economic Risks)

The handling for Dowsing is similar to some of his other effects. This wasn't a drawback to me because I had never considered using it for OOTW. Some of his effects are alternate or improved handlings of previous effects.

I have most of his dvds. The only one I absolutely didn't like was NO CARD TRICKS. Not because there weren't any card tricks. I just didn't like any of the material.

The demo for Supernatural is quite vague, but the description of some of the effects sound good. Another thing I like about Sankey is that I don't find his descriptions to be misleading.
Message: Posted by: Darkfrog (Nov 7, 2006 03:08PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-06 11:04, WolfgangStiller wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-11-06 04:27, Paul Wingham wrote:
I'm not the biggest fan of one trick dvds, but Silver dream and box monster are two that I have recently purchased and they show every detail of tricks that have been workhorses to the creators for years.
[/quote]

I agree. Some single effects require a lot of time to explain all the nuances, possible variations and details in the handling so in these cases an entire DVD dedicated to a single effect is worthwhile. There are others that IMHO, don't justify an entire DVD for the effect.

-Wolfgang
[/quote]
I think that sometimes the 'nuances' are a bit repetitive, and are there sometimes more of as a time filler than as really necessary information. Now I'm not saying that about all of them, but take for example Silver Dream. I would have preferred a Cloutier style teach-in on Sl*****g and use Silver Dream routine as just one thing you can do with that, maybe the finale of the DVD. I don't want to see hundreds of Justin Millers performing the same routine. I might like one segment of the routine and combine it with something else already in my arsenal, or maybe the teaching of some of the basics would inspire some of these younger magicians to innovate and combine the material in a way that suits them.
I think Fraud and Greed were both great tricks. However, in the past, I used to see tricks like this on the Steven's or the Stars of Magic series tapes along with other effects (just look at the Paul Harris videos). Fraud took more time explaining how to make the trick, than it did showing how to perform it. Many of these explanations seem to drag on, I think because they are trying to fill up time, showing all of these 'nuances' when often the moves are just being repeated. We don't need to keep seeing the same thing, these are DVD videos with reverse and slo-mo capabilities. The video medium can be utilized in a much more efficient manner, utilizing graphics and better editing. For about the same price, I could get a David Roth or Michael Rubinstein 2-DVD set and learn a hell of a lot more, including some effects that, as you say, have been workhorses for their creators.

In the Fraud video, we watched Daniel puttering around the office while making the gimmick, that was just a waste of time and so much of it was obvious, and could have been better reinforced by including written instructions for most of that part. Remember, DVDs are multimedia and can hold files, that includes text files with drawings (now I know Fraud did come with something extra necessary for the trick)

As I said, I like a lot of these tricks. I just think it wouild be nice if we could see more multiple effect releases, like maybe Fraud and Greed as a single release. They could charge a bit more and maybe find that they even sell more than if released individually.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 7, 2006 04:17PM)
I picked up this dvd because I am an unabashed Sankey fan. I won't do a long review but I will say that there are more than one or two good effects on here.

A few of my favorites are:

Burden of Proof
Circumference
A Delicate Balance
Forced Entry
Paper Trade
Trinity

But I hated "Around the Bend" (just put it under the rubber band!) and "X Ray Vision" (why, oh why would you do a business card effect where you can't hand out the business card at the end?). There are much better ways to do both effects.

This dvd is only for the Sankey fan, though. And it is really nice to have a dvd with no coin or card material.
Message: Posted by: dg magic (Nov 7, 2006 09:04PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-07 16:08, Darkfrog wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-11-06 11:04, WolfgangStiller wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-11-06 04:27, Paul Wingham wrote:
I'm not the biggest fan of one trick dvds, but Silver dream and box monster are two that I have recently purchased and they show every detail of tricks that have been workhorses to the creators for years.
[/quote]

I agree. Some single effects require a lot of time to explain all the nuances, possible variations and details in the handling so in these cases an entire DVD dedicated to a single effect is worthwhile. There are others that IMHO, don't justify an entire DVD for the effect.

-Wolfgang
[/quote]
I think that sometimes the 'nuances' are a bit repetitive, and are there sometimes more of as a time filler than as really necessary information. Now I'm not saying that about all of them, but take for example Silver Dream. I would have preferred a Cloutier style teach-in on Sl*****g and use Silver Dream routine as just one thing you can do with that, maybe the finale of the DVD. I don't want to see hundreds of Justin Millers performing the same routine. I might like one segment of the routine and combine it with something else already in my arsenal, or maybe the teaching of some of the basics would inspire some of these younger magicians to innovate and combine the material in a way that suits them.
I think Fraud and Greed were both great tricks. However, in the past, I used to see tricks like this on the Steven's or the Stars of Magic series tapes along with other effects (just look at the Paul Harris videos). Fraud took more time explaining how to make the trick, than it did showing how to perform it. Many of these explanations seem to drag on, I think because they are trying to fill up time, showing all of these 'nuances' when often the moves are just being repeated. We don't need to keep seeing the same thing, these are DVD videos with reverse and slo-mo capabilities. The video medium can be utilized in a much more efficient manner, utilizing graphics and better editing. For about the same price, I could get a David Roth or Michael Rubinstein 2-DVD set and learn a hell of a lot more, including some effects that, as you say, have been workhorses for their creators.

In the Fraud video, we watched Daniel puttering around the office while making the gimmick, that was just a waste of time and so much of it was obvious, and could have been better reinforced by including written instructions for most of that part. Remember, DVDs are multimedia and can hold files, that includes text files with drawings (now I know Fraud did come with something extra necessary for the trick)

As I said, I like a lot of these tricks. I just think it wouild be nice if we could see more multiple effect releases, like maybe Fraud and Greed as a single release. They could charge a bit more and maybe find that they even sell more than if released individually.
[/quote]


to you it may seem that the explanations dragged on in my DVD's ... but you have to think that there are some people that just don't pick up things as quick as others. I make it MY PERSONAL GOAL to explain EVERYTHING to the FULLEST. I believe that is what teaching is, making sure that EVERYONE understands EVERYTHING to the fullest. To you maybe it lagged on, but to some maybe it was EXACTLY what they needed.

Daniel Garcia
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Nov 8, 2006 02:18AM)
Chicagomagi- In a sense this debate is not completely off-track because we are talking about the attitude that Jay Sankey has toward the magic community and what he has to offer. I want to mention that I'm sorry if you take offense to any of my possibly harsh words, but if we are having a debate, sorry for any bad attitude. I think its important to learn from both books and dvds, but when you learn from a dvd the tendency is to copy the presentation depending on what you are looking for in the dvd.

I do understand that you may not care what other people think, are stick to your opinion about liking Sankey's material. My response to that is simple. I am a performer and try to look for the best material to fix up and put to my personal style. I enjoy watching a good dvd with good material and possibly add an effect or two to my working repetiore. Jay seems to be making this so difficult for people like me who want to do this by putting out so much material at one time, with such poor quality. From poor filming quality, recycling magic, putting out overlapping material, and just way to much unfinished material and filler.
Its so hard when watching dvds like Anytime Anywhere, 45, Supernatural and so many others not to get seriously dizzy from the camera work.

If you don't understand that, which is definetely possible, then try taking 10-20 of his routines putting in just alittle practice and then go perform them for REAL people and even some magicians who can help you with a routine. You will see what I mean.

"As for 3 Ring Circus, we can debate the preference of the Rings all day. I personally find the stage rings uninspiring unless you're going to do a routine like Whit Hayden's. However, the rings closeup, inches from the face (after being inspected) and in the hands, to me, is masterful. "

I completely disagree. Watch any of the linking ring routines by Jeff McBride and Chris Capehart and you will see the difference. Try to see them live.
Also not to spill a method or anything, but Sankey's statement of "all the ring are examinable" is misleading. For someone who isn't knowledgeable about the basic linking rings concept they will be dissappointed. It only takes a few seconds after performing to say "hey lemme see those rings," "hey lemme try those"
that's what the real REAL PEOPLE are like.

In regard to the bonus effects. Why distract the viewer. He didn't perform card magic at the end of the Rev. Coin dvd so why do it now. What's the point of bonus material. If its to add more value to the dvd, or perhaps provide more insight for the viewer, I think he has done that in a very negative way, but good for marketing.

Speaking of the Vernon Substitue Transer, I personally feel he has "butchered" that move and does it WAY TO MUCH, and making it into an unnatural, suspicious move. No laymen I know has ever seen cards handled that way.


Going back to Supernatural. The demo just turned me off so much. Also, several of the effects on the dvd he explained and talked about in the newsletter. One such trick is the bubble wrap trick, and the method was very basic. Its like he comes up with 1000s of effects and uses the same 10 moves to make them all possible with little variety, I dunno about that.


just my two centavos
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 8, 2006 10:05AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-07 17:17, Cameron Francis wrote:
I picked up this dvd because I am an unabashed Sankey fan. I won't do a long review but I will say that there are more than one or two good effects on here.
[/quote]

Wow! Finally an opinion of this DVD. THANK YOU!

I appreciate you mentioning both the items you like and those you didn't.

Would you say the items you liked all showed some orginality and weren't just variations of a the few moves that Jay likes to feature on his DVDs?

[quote]
This dvd is only for the Sankey fan, though. And it is really nice to have a dvd with no coin or card material.
[/quote]

Hmmmm...what does that mean? I have some Sankey DVDs and actually use some ideas from these DVDs (no effects as presented but I feel I have gotten value for my money) but I'm not sure I'd call myself a fan. Does this mean this DVD is not for me?

-Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 8, 2006 02:20PM)
No, Wolfgang, I said that really for the people who don't like Sankey at all. You don't have to be a huge fan to like this dvd.

I would say that the moves involved in most of the tricks are simple and very much what he does in most of his dvds, false transfers, shuttles, and, yes, even one trick with a bill switch. He doesn't explain the bill switch on this dvd, though.

What I like about Jay's material is that he is constantly coming up with new applications of old ideas. And I see nothing wrong with that.

For example: Paper Trade. This is an effect that was in one of his newsletters. It's a really good transpostion effect. Basically, you tear half of a piece of paper out of a spiral notebook and have a spectator hold onto it. You tear the top half out, the half with the holes in it and you hold onto that. Make a magical gesture and the pieces switch places. Instantly resets. It's a wonderful idea and a nice change from the typical copper silver routine. Now, yes, I do think you could flesh out the routine a little more and make it more interesting by drawing pictures on the pieces of paper or something but the idea is inspired.

That's what I get from Jay's material. Frankly, I don't care that some of his routines aren't completely fleshed out because I wouldn't do them the way he does them anyway. I like to make things my own. So what I'm interested in are ideas and concepts and I usually get a lot of that from Jay's videos. I'll make up my own routines.
Message: Posted by: Chicagomagi (Nov 8, 2006 04:59PM)
Amen Cameron. I couldn't agree more.

Clamon,
I don't know what to say other than maybe it's because of our differing experience levels and interests that defines the difference in our opinion of Jay's material.
If you're a working Pro then maybe you're not really the audience that Jay is targeting. I don't know.

Some people also seem to think Paul Harris' stuff can sometimes be super creative but not practical, same with Mark Mason, that Eugene Burger's stuff is too basic and cerebral to be commercial, etc. etc. Personally, I say bring it on. If it's crappy, then so be it, but I don't mind searching for the diamond in the rough and as mentioned above, I might find some things that I can piece together or morph into my own.

As for the rings and examinability, who said you need to let them see them after you do the links? When I do it, they're in their hands for a whole different effect before I start the linking routine. They have been examined.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 8, 2006 06:43PM)
Well, judging from the amount of Jay inspired material I have seen pros do, I would say Jay is targeting just about everyone.
Message: Posted by: cougar261084 (Nov 9, 2006 03:53AM)
I just don't like the fact he says its mentalism,

there's a huge difference between mentalism and mental magic.

I've never seen jay sankey do any mentalism and the demo suggests to me that this is obviously mental magic, most mentalists will know this but for you new to mentalism don't be fooled okay
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 9, 2006 08:38AM)
Oh, whatever.
Message: Posted by: cougar261084 (Nov 9, 2006 02:19PM)
Maybe my comment sounded negative:

I like jay sankey and I like a lot of his effects.

I was just pointing out that people who want mentalism should get something else people who want some magic with a mental approach this dvd is for you.

I'm sorry if I sounded negative I own many of jay sankey's dvd's and effects and so far he hasn't dissapointed me (much), art of sleight of hand, and no card tricks were big dissapointments, and create your own magic wasn't much either
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 9, 2006 02:50PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-08 15:20, Cameron Francis wrote:
No, Wolfgang, I said that really for the people who don't like Sankey at all. You don't have to be a huge fan to like this dvd.
[/quote]

Ahhhh...that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

[quote]
On 2006-11-08 15:20, Cameron Francis wrote:
What I like about Jay's material is that he is constantly coming up with new applications of old ideas. And I see nothing wrong with that.
[/quote]

Neither do I. I think I have learned a lot from the way he applies moves we all know to create interesting effects.

[quote]
That's what I get from Jay's material. Frankly, I don't care that some of his routines aren't completely fleshed out because I wouldn't do them the way he does them anyway.
[/quote]

Yeah, I prefer to get just his basic handling. His patter and style are not something that I can learn from. In any book and DVD, I will find my own routines and presentation for the effects that I like.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Nov 9, 2006 02:52PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-09 04:53, cougar261084 wrote:
there's a huge difference between mentalism and mental magic.

I've never seen jay sankey do any mentalism and the demo suggests to me that this is obviously mental magic, most mentalists will know this but for you new to mentalism don't be fooled okay
[/quote]

Yes, it's mental magic not mentalism and Jay should know better but as mentalist that doesn't bother me and I actually use a few of Jays ideas in my routines.

-Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: juan king (Nov 11, 2006 02:39AM)
Jay is being two things:

1. Short

2. Bald (which is meaning he has lots of testosterone)

I am knowing that short men like this are trying harder to impress other people to make up for being small. Add some testosterone and you get some more ambition too.

That is why I think he is releasing so many things and is trying harder than most of the other magicians.

That is also why his picture on the front of the DVD supernatural is shot from below to make him look taller than he is really.

He has told me about this too.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Nov 13, 2006 02:06PM)
Well it seems like he has reached his goal, possibly. His dvds and books cover every aspect of close-up magic:

linking rings
cards
coins
sleight of hand
self-working
make it yourself
party magic
cups and balls/chop cup
sponge balls
theory
performance
money magic
sessioning with other people
comparing old and new
more and more variations and add-ons, even to his own stuff
magic by other people
interviews with others
miscellanuous magic
mentalism/mental magic
magic with borrowed objects
gimmicks and prop magic
many many marketed effects
lectures and notes
flourishes
gambling routines
picking up girls
creating your own magic
ESP
fire magic


and has released most of that within just a few years, and cause SOOO MUCH controversy.
In addition he has given us:

a lot of filler
more magic contributions that almost anyone else in such a short period of time(at least that I can think of)
lots of bad camera work
arguements with internet magic shops
gained worldwide recognition
way to much (juvenile) and stupid jokes and comedy
pranks and jokes among the magic
bonus material- that in many cases(I feel)have little relevance to the other content
dislocated discs in cases
a series of burned dvds
proves that you can make SO much magic happen with only a few standard/essential sleights that have been around for ages for better or worse

and so much more
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 13, 2006 03:48PM)
Clamon, you obviously have some issues with Sankey. But what's the point of your post. Who is that post directed to, exactly? Are you trying to dissuade people from buying his products? Or are you trying to convince people who like Sankey that they shouldn't like Sankey? I doubt that post will do either.

BTW, I don't find anything wrong with the camera work in most of his videos. It's very kinetic but the instruction is always clear and I have never had any trouble learning the moves. And please don't talk about the Supernatural demo because that is just the demo. The entire dvd is not filmed in that wavy way.
Message: Posted by: munkywrench (Nov 24, 2006 08:47PM)
I am a Sankey head and have yet to recieve a news letter. What gives. I have his whole library of DVD's save maybe 5 and lecture notes from three sessions. I have checked his site numberous times to make sure my info is correct and it is. Has anyone had the same problem?
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 24, 2006 11:19PM)
Yes, I did not receive his newsletter this month or last month. Has the new one gone out yet?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Dec 2, 2006 11:44AM)
Did anyone get Supernatural that can review.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Dec 4, 2006 12:34PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-25 00:19, Cameron Francis wrote:
Yes, I did not receive his newsletter this month or last month. Has the new one gone out yet?
[/quote]

No newsletters per se, but I got a promo email (I think it might have called itself a newsletter but I didn't save it) promoting the Supernatural DVD on November 2nd.

-Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: kihei kid (Dec 5, 2006 04:21AM)
[quote]
On 2006-10-16 12:34, BenM wrote:
I wish Sankey would slow down with his releases (who doesn't?). I mean, how many other creators release twelve DVDs/effects each year? Why doesn't Jay stop releasing for the sake of releasing and slow things down a little bit?
[/quote]
Me. Doesnít bother me one bit, I love Jay and his incredibly creative mind. For me itís not just about the effects, it never has been, itís every bit as much about all the little nuisances that goes along with his magic.

Heís brilliant.
Message: Posted by: in flames (Dec 23, 2006 09:35PM)
Wow! I finally had the chance to watch some of this. I couldn't sit through the whole thing. I love a lot of Jays material. Nice guy. Bumped into him a few times on the street here in Toronto, but I have to say, this DVD was a huge waste of $$$.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Dec 23, 2006 10:06PM)
I usualy get Jay's stuff, but passed on this. I just didn't feel any heat from these effects. Want to impress them with mentalism? Perform Mindcast.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Dec 24, 2006 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-23 22:35, in flames wrote:
Nice guy. Bumped into him a few times on the street here in Toronto.
[/quote]
I wished I still live in Toronto. I missed the city, its people and uniqueness that only Toronto possesses.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Dec 24, 2006 11:42AM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-24 12:05, evolve629 wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-12-23 22:35, in flames wrote:
Nice guy. Bumped into him a few times on the street here in Toronto.
[/quote]
I wished I still live in Toronto. I missed the city, its people and uniqueness that only Toronto possesses.
[/quote]

Toronto is not the same without you either!!!!

Chris
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Dec 25, 2006 11:18AM)
Chris, you are too kind! Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year to you and yours!!!
Message: Posted by: Barrett_James (Jun 25, 2007 03:12PM)
I watched this DVD just because it was Jay Sankey and I am a HUGE fan. Their are a few (umm, less than four or five) effects I enjoyed or the principle had me thinking about changes/improvements to other effects I do BUT... this DVD left me scratching my head after the demonstrations were over. I mean magic with bread tags and alka seltzer?!?

Still a Sankey fan but yeah I also feel this was kinda rushed.

Regards,

Barrett James