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Topic: New Magic Course - Dugdale/Jay
Message: Posted by: Baggins (Oct 31, 2006 10:27AM)
Phil Jay and Chris Dugdale have created a course called close -up success http://www.closeupsuccess.com/# it looks good. Anybody signed up?

I like PDFs so this is a cosnideration for me.
Message: Posted by: Chris Jones (Oct 31, 2006 10:30AM)
You may find it hard to receive the info. Prof magician Phil Jay http://www.philjaymagic.com has lost his laptop. This is not good news if you booked him for magic.
Message: Posted by: Richard Stone (Nov 1, 2006 05:50AM)
Phil Jay and Chris Dugdale are both very good friends of mine. I have been very fortunate to have had the chance of working with Phil and Chris all over the country. In my opinion they are no doubt the two hardest working close up magicians in the UK, and these guys know their stuff. Watching these guys work, quickly makes you realise how much these guys know about ENTERTAINING a table and the BUSINESS side of Magic.

The stuff they are releasing from today is the Gold Dust they have been giving me in drips and draps over the last year or so. I have had the privilege of sitting down with Phil at his house on many occasions till early hours of the morning discussing the 'Real Techniques' of the business. OH boy, this stuff works!!! Since being with these guys and listening to every word I have now become VAT registered. Not bad since I have only been in business for just over a year.

Re:
[quote]
Prof Magician Phil Jay http://www.philjaymagic.com has lost his laptop. This is not good news if you booked him for magic."
[/quote]
If you read the advert on the site correctly it does actually say 'Stolen'. Unfortunately for Mr. Jay he was in a meeting in London where his laptop was stolen right from his side. Thankfully after a couple of weeks of hard labour he has reclaimed the majority of the lost jobs back. Things like this can happen to anyone.

NB
The lost laptop will not affect people who have purchased 'Close up Success' because the laptop was stolen way before CUS went live on the Web. To also clarify, Phil is not the course administrator. Although he co-wrote CUS with Chris Dugdale, Phil is not the one who is handling the payments and distribution of the PDF's and DVD's.

All the best

Richard Stone
Message: Posted by: paymerich (Nov 1, 2006 10:31AM)
I read the advert on the web site and its a bit lacking of the types of magic it will teach ( other than cards). It seems like a great idea. It sounds like great information will be included in this course. But the claim to get some PDFs totally up to 300 pages and some DVDs does not make me want to shell out $600 USD. For $600 you should be getting the equivalent of the original tarbell course( over 1000 pages) already printed out for you! I just re-read and it said props and effects are included buttttttt what are those effects ? In this day and age a table of contents would help answer a ton of questions . I understand Mr stone you have benefited from direct contact with Mr Jay but we will not be so lucky. I think until an independant review comes out I will hold off .
Message: Posted by: Flec (Nov 4, 2006 06:58AM)
I have subscribed, and after the first volume, I am already pleased with the content. Im not going to go into detail, but the first pdf containted 54 pages, with philosephies, and a number of great effects and subtleties. I don't think the value should be questioned...like they say, you'd only need a half decent corporate gig to pay for it...and with this course, I have no doubt that I will get at least one half decent gig.
Message: Posted by: Big Al Jnr (Nov 12, 2006 04:08PM)
I have to agree with Flec.

I've received the first volume and it's worth every penny. The course is £37.50 a month or £375.00 up front. I only work part time as a magician but I paid up front and am already pleased, I can see it's goint to be excellent value for money if you're serious about getting into the corporate market or just want to make your magic more entertaining. £375 is ONE GIG! What do you guys want? Knowledge is valuable and these guys deserve to get well paid for tipping their hat so cheaply, they should have made it more expensive to keep it a little more exclusive.

I had a problem with the hard disk on my laptop, this corrupted the file so I couldn't open it anymore. I e-mailed Chris and received a reply same day saying he could sort it out no problem. Next day I received the file again to replace the damaged one. WOW! The problem was nothing to do with Chris but he sorted it, NO QUIBBLE!

I met Chris at a Corporate Trade Show Day organised in London and the ideas he shared there that I've used have worked for me. I can see already from this first issue that this course is going to be more of those gems.

Just my thoughts.

Al.
Message: Posted by: waltmagicmac55 (Nov 12, 2006 05:54PM)
I have a question! How does this compare to Paul Daniels Course which if I remember right is excellent also, but about $200.00 less than this one. It sounds great, but seems to be very expensive considering there are many very good Magic Books out there. I am disabled, and presently have not worked for many years so my income though I am also retired United States Air Force would hurt lots if I ordered this. Not to say I will not try it in the future. I love Magic, but am as in Golf more of a Duffer than a Magician. I love to read, and practice, but am always afraid of actually performing in front of people. Thanks for listening to my rambling.
Message: Posted by: bernie (Mar 18, 2007 05:10PM)
Chris Dugdale & phil jay are 2 of the top close up workers in the uk, but is the course worth its price? I would be very interested in reviews form anyone who has seen it. not many reports on the forum as yet
Message: Posted by: paymerich (Mar 18, 2007 09:13PM)
This course seems to have come and gone quite quickly?
Message: Posted by: magicmanci15 (Mar 21, 2007 08:04AM)
Anyone else dish out the dough for this course that can review?
Message: Posted by: wonder pefomance (Mar 21, 2007 09:27AM)
Chris Dugdale and Mike Jay have produced some of the most expensive PDFs out there. This is to be applauded. I heard that C. Dugdale has implemented futuristic technology in the PDFs that automatically calls his copywright attorney in NYC if one of the course subscribers goes bad and makes the files available via P2P DL.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Fox (Mar 21, 2007 10:06AM)
Is it worth the money (Yes)Do I want you to buy it (no)
Message: Posted by: paymerich (Mar 21, 2007 04:30PM)
It is sounding more and more like some of these real estate/investment "seminars". "We priced it high to keep the non-dedicated people from learing the secrets" or "It will be a limited distribution. to maintain its exclusivity". And Wow they throw in gimmicks valued up to $40 , sarcasm alert. Like I said I would expect they print it out for you considering the price you are paying. Its too bad they are taking this marketing strategy, It probably is a average to good product but they are turning a lot of people off . They are probably of the mind set of we would rather sell 50 $600 courses instead of 600 $50 courses . THis is my opinion based upon what I have gleaned.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Mar 22, 2007 11:12AM)
The site says " Complimentary Exclusive DVD “The Classic Force”, learn from Phil Jay - the best practitioner of this in the World ".

That's a bold statement considering Paul Green's work on the classic force.
Message: Posted by: fredericsharp (Mar 23, 2007 06:27AM)
First of all, I don't think anyone who is not on the course should be allowed to comment about it. Paymerich, how can you say "It probably is a average to good product". You have never read it!!
I was one of the first subscribers and I can tell you that Close-up Success is worth every penny. I have just sold my highest paid close-up gig thanks to the advice contained in Close-up Success. Phil Jay and Chris Dugdale are probably two of the most successfull close-up magicians. They are literally giving away (yes even for that price) what made them so successfull. They know what they are talking about (not like you Paymerich).

I am so happy with Close-up Success that I recently sent the following feedback to Chris Dugdale:

"Hi Chris,
I just thought I’d drop you a line. I’ve been talking to Phil about Close-up Success and I gave him my very positive feedback but not to you directly.
All I can say is: thank you! Close-up Success is absolutely brilliant. After reading all the information so far (volume 5), I don’t think that anyone has reflected so much on the business of close-up magic than you two.
When I got close-up success, initially I was more interested in your business tips as I know that both of you are amongst the top earners in our trade. But your thoughts on the interaction with the audience are also very interesting, and the magic material is excellent. You obviously have done a lot research on negotiation skills, personal development and psychology and you are literally giving it all away. I really wish I had been privy to such information before. The information in close-up success is pure gold dust! Really…. I think for those who see the potential, it will definitely boost their career as close-up magician. I have started to implement a lot of your techniques and I am changing the way I am doing things. And I can see the results straight away. The course has by far paid for itself already.
What I find positive about close-up success is that it makes me take a step back and reflect on my profession which is not an easy exercise. It is a great tool for self-development. Without it, it is difficult to know where to start.
Thanks again and I just can’t wait to receive the next volumes."

In other words, I highly recommend it!
Message: Posted by: fredericsharp (Mar 23, 2007 10:18AM)
I think this course was designed for full time pros and people who are considering becoming professionnal. It certainly isn't aimed at magic geeks who just want to impress their mates. The course is about the business of close-up magic and how to be more successfull in that business. I have been making a living doing close-up magic for 10 years now but still, knowing how well Phil and Chris are doing from this business, I thought I could do with getting business advice from them. That's the truth. I think a lot of magician do have an ego problem and struggle when it comes to self-improvement. Most magicians think they are already doing the right thing.

I can tell you that following the advice and selling techniques described in close-up success, I have just sold a 3 hour close-up gig for 30 people for £925 + vat, including travel (2 hours from home) and I am being supplied a room in the 5 star hotel where the gig is taking place.
Message: Posted by: patrick flanagan (Mar 23, 2007 11:07AM)
Congrats on the booking fredericsharp. 3 hours for 30 people??? That seems like a lot of time for that many people.
Patrick
Message: Posted by: Richard Stone (Mar 23, 2007 11:52AM)
"Congrats on the booking fredericsharp. 3 hours for 30 people??? That seems like a lot of time for that many people. Patrick "

Unless of course you know how to work an environment like that. I have seen Frederic work and he knows what he is doing.

I really can't BELIEVE people are slagging off the course when they haven't even read it. It is so mundane... To be honest I rather the magic geeks leave this course alone and let the serious workers grab hold of this GOLD DUST. For full-time magicians or magicians thinking about going pro and want to increase their income and bookings this is the course for you. This course will really teach you the in and outs of this business. The section about how to approach a table properly is worth the course alone.

If you just want to self pleasure yourself (we know what we call people who do that!) with fancy cuts etc in your bedroom, don't bother buying this course, instead; go and keep buying the latest tricks on the market.
Message: Posted by: patrick flanagan (Mar 23, 2007 12:23PM)
Richard,
I wasn't doubting frederic's abilities....I don't even know him. I was just asking a question.
Also, I suppose people here have some reservations when people with 2 posts come on praising a new product. Both you and frederic show having 2 posts and coincidently are backing the same product.....makes people wonder.
I have no reason to doubt the advantages of this course, I haven't seen it.
I know enough tricks... I am looking for information on how to get hired in better paying places. Maybe this course is the answer, but I'd rather hear some feedback from (nothing personal) some unbiased people. Unfortunatley, I'm not willing to put out $600 to be the "crash-test dummy".
patrick
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 23, 2007 01:07PM)
Well if he just learned from the course I DOUBT HIS ABILITIES.

Here is the thing with ANY course. Are they worth the money? Who knows? If you get it home and it works for you, then I guess the answer is yes. Heck some people were happy with the Yugo.

Now to rag on people who see an inconsistancy in the ad copy, well that is not fair either. These guys always make claims that when dicected, make no sense.

It is possible, that there has been a payment incentive of some sort to the people who are using the course. I would call that good marketing.

BUT I will caution any Americans considering this. The UK is a different animal when it comes to close up work. It is far different. Lots of cultural differences come into play. For much of the same reason that some American things don't translate to the UK, the reverse is quite true.

I also have the same 2 post reservation, with no other information other than "oh it is well worth the money". Seems suspicious as we have seen this many times here.

And I am sorry to say from the copy, it is NOT geared to professionals working. It may claim that but come on. The just starting out, the wanna work, the I need more work crowd, but not the busy pro.

I am a bit annoyed at the lifting of the Mastercard "priceless". For a thread so worried about legal things like liable, it seems a bit odd to use something so directly related to another. If nothing else it shows a complete lack of creativity.

"Finest exponant of the classic force"? According to who?

I get nervous any time someone from across the pond tries to tell me how to reach untapped markets in the US. The US is so geographically different and culturally different within itself, there is NO way to make the claim.

So lets not have the silly arguement that we can't tell things from the ad copy ok?

As I said earlier, if you want to get it and it helps you book shows or learn tricks, then it is well worth the money. If not then obviously it is not. I would be nervous of anyone from another culture telling me how to market in mine, but that is just me. And the 2 posters with praise, well speak for themselvs. Seems as if every time we have one of these courses discussed they pop up, and then "poof vanish" when the marketing is done. HMMMMM.
Message: Posted by: paymerich (Mar 23, 2007 03:07PM)
Well put Danny . Extremely well put .
I am sick of these guys who come in say if you don't own the effect/book/course/DVD, you can't comment on it. That irks me to no end. Obviously the course creators have not done a good job of informing people on its overall contents. I am not gonna shell out $600 bucks for a course that does not even list its table of contents or at least print the PDF's out for me ? Look if the product is so good do what other companies do ; Price it competively and sell as many as you can . I am sticking to my initial statement, its probably an average to good course that some people will see as gold to them and other just plain old brass.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Mar 23, 2007 06:17PM)
I bet Richard Stones fingers are dying to start typing away :lol:
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Mar 23, 2007 07:17PM)
I'm with you guys regarding the people with 2 posts coming here, posting ONLY on this topic and denigrating anyone who is the least bit skeptical or critical of the course. How do we know that these two people are not the same person under two different names, or even one or both of the course's authors incognito? Answer: we simply don't know that.

It's one thing if a "name" magician makes these claims, or even a long-time Café member who has earned our trust. But someone who has never before posted here, coming to THIS topic and instructing the rest of us on proper decorum at The Café, well...

I've checked out a lot of these courses. Most of them would be worthwhile as a $15 paperback book, but instead are sent as "installments' at exorbitant prices. Many of them are simply from books on marketing and sales with "magic" inserted where "type of business" was in the books.

I also share Danny's reservations about UK courses claiming to tell US magicians how to go about marketing here. One prominent UK magician (maybe even THE most prominent one!) put out a "course" like this a couple of years ago. He borrowed HEAVILY from my Pro-Files columns and one of my books without permission or credit--even going so far as to taking entire articles word-for-word, right down to, "a magician named Scott who worked at a restaurant chain called Smoky Mountain Pizza and Pasta"!

All that is neither here nor there regarding THIS course. My biggest problems with this one:
1) Very high prices for the DVDs.
2) The manuscript being sent in "monthly installments."
3) The "free" one-day seminar. You get to choose between London and New York. With airfare, hotel and meals, that's going to cost thousands of dollars to go that "free" seminar. Worth it for a multi-day convention, but not for one day, IMO.

I wouldn't be able to go to the seminar, and I am unwilling to pay $600 for a few props that I may or may not already have (I already know enough tricks), a couple of DVDs and 12 PDFs. For a magician in London or NYC, though, it may be well worth your money.
Message: Posted by: Michael T (Mar 23, 2007 07:34PM)
Hi, I suspect that "Richard Stone" and "Fred Eric Sharp" are two false people. I have never heard of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they were the two writers of the course.
Message: Posted by: fredericsharp (Mar 24, 2007 04:34AM)
Very interesting .... You've never heard of us so we must be "false people". I have never heard of you myself! I used to work under a different name (ie Frederic Shark) instead of "Sharp". Here is link to a past FFFF convention with my cocktail act, so you can see that I don't look like Phil Jay or Chris Dugdale http://www.mallofmagic.com/convpix/ffff2003/14SatSh2.htm.
Look guys, I am not trying to sell you this course. Quite the opposite. For me, the less people go on it, the better it is, as the information is really good and I don't want it to get diluted in the magic world. Also I am gratefull to the writers for making this available. As I told you, I am seeing the results already. Obviously, the course itself can only create success if you are motivated and you make of something of it. It's one thing to get given great business tips, it's another thing to apply them. Without giving too much away, I will just mention some of the great business tips in the course: how to get a residency and keep it. How to pick up hotels as clients. (I used this top tip and got myself a five star hotel as a new client). How to get asked for more business cards. How to get better fees. How to work a single table gig (and a great up-selling tip on the one table gig), and more....

Regarding their knowledge of the UK / US market, well Chris Dugdale lives and works in the USA (legally). Chris has a stamp of excellence on his passport (for "oustanding performance" I think it is called) and I believe he his the only magician from the UK to have this work permit. So Chris knows what he's talking about and he has performed at some of the most impressive gigs in the US including the United-Nations (twice I think).

If you go on the course and come to the one day seminar, I will be happy to shake your hand.
Message: Posted by: Best of British (Mar 24, 2007 06:21AM)
This course reminds me of those expensive 'Hope in a Can' products sold by that American chap Anthony Robbins.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Fox (Mar 24, 2007 06:44AM)
I would like to jump in ay this point' Fred Sharp is a full time pro who I'v known for about ten years, I don't get to see him as often as I would like because he is all over the world performing close up magic, I also know Chris Dugdale & have meet & talked to Phil Jay twice @ the sesions Convention here in the UK it was myself who mentioned the course to Fred after a discusion I had with Mark Mason. Fred subsequently gave me a call to thank me' & went on to tell me all about how bennificial the course has been, I was was so impressed by what he told me I decided to take the course myself & every thing he said was true , I should explain that close up is my passion, & I spend far to much on my passion & travel all all over the world to attend conventions, because after a life time in business I can & although I only perform about Once a Month on a paying job ( just to keep my hand in)& because my health isn't great I have to take it easy. I under stand you being suspicious @ times but the man is genuin.And who am I, well
Im a sixty five year old close up nut who just want's to read my book's & practice the next routine . Take it easy, Kevin.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Mar 24, 2007 11:24AM)
Anyone that is even thinking about taking this course, please read and re-read Danny Doyle and Scott Guinn's thoughts. I think they will help you make a wise choice and save you a lot of money and frustation.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Mar 24, 2007 01:11PM)
Let me just make this clear...

I never said Frederick WAS Phil or Chris. I just said that we had no way of knowing that he WASN'T. Frankly, at this point, I believe him, and it sounds like this course has really helped him. I think that's great. I am NOT in Steel's camp here.

If I lived in NYC or London, I might consider buying this course. But I live in Idaho, which mean that with expenses, the course costs skyrocket. That, along with the other considerations I mentioned in my previous post, makes me choose to pass on it. But, for someone with the bucks or who lives in those two cities, it may well be a very worthwhile investment.

For the rest of us, I can recommend Adam Christing's "Getting the Gigs" as a good (and quite affordable" alternative. I believe it's still available from Brad Burt.
Message: Posted by: mag1c kev1n (Mar 24, 2007 02:17PM)
I want to hear what the REAL pros think of this. I'm talking martin cox, mike keech, ash marlow, sean heydon, martyn rowland, stuart watkins, max butler, dave bonsall, ian hamilton, richard penna, barrington powell, jim langley, alex lodge, jimmy carlo, jordan o grady, tj spencer, bruce munton, simon grant... The real workers!
Message: Posted by: Iain Moran (Mar 24, 2007 03:18PM)
Just thought I'd jump in here. I too have known Frederic for about 10 years and I can confirm that he is not or indeed bears no resemblance to, either Chris Dugdale or Phil Jay.

He is one of the busiest Magicians here in the North West (UK) and recently performed at The Session convention along with Allan Ackerman, Paul Cummins etc.

Please gentleman, lets be nice to each other and get back on topic.

Iain.
Message: Posted by: Craig Kyle (Mar 24, 2007 07:01PM)
Evidence would suggest that Fred is a real magicina but I very much doubt that Richard stone is a real magician. His website looks like a sham website for amagic fakir.
Message: Posted by: wallythe wizard (Mar 24, 2007 09:04PM)
Hi,
I shelled out for the course right from the outset in full I am more than happy with the contents so far, I have been a full time pro for 15+years I have the marketing courses , randy cahraach dave dee ext. but this is more CREATING MIRACLES, D ORTIZ with tricks expalined combined with specific marketing and informed does don'ts and inside info. hard to explain but its not simply another marketing book
Message: Posted by: Turk (Mar 24, 2007 10:14PM)
Richard Stone [i]is[/i] a real magician. He took the plunge about 1 1/2 years ago and turned pro. I know Richard from another magic site that is essentially UK in members although it is run by an American. Between the webmaster and I and few other Americans, the site is essentially UK "all the way". But, I do know Richard from that other site from before the time he turned pro.

I've been following Richard's progress these last 18 months and he is doing splendidly (or at least better than he ever expected to beding 18 months into a "cold start-jump in feet first" transition into magic pro).

Way to go, Richard!!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Best of British (Mar 25, 2007 06:33AM)
I know most UK magicians but have never heard of Richard Stone.

Sounds like someone took RICHARD Osterlind and David STONE and combined their names to come up with Richard Stone.

I will be able to verify whether Richard Stone is a real person or not within a week because of the contacts and network I have. Stay tuned.
Message: Posted by: Aaron Lucas (Mar 25, 2007 09:06AM)
Anyone think it's kind of odd that this course is so good that the people who bought it don't want anyone else to know about it, yet two of those people have registered on the Café specifically to tell us how great is and how we should all sign up!?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Mar 25, 2007 10:29AM)
Aaron, I think you summed it up!!!!
Message: Posted by: Best of British (Mar 25, 2007 11:20AM)
After talking to well known members of the magic community here in the UK I can verify that Richard Stone is a genuine magician.

However, he is also part of a team of magicians who work together to get gigs. Guess who two of the other members are?

You guessed it, Chris and Phil.

Unfortunately this means his review of the course must be taken with a large pinch of salt.

For proof of my research simply visit http://www.teammagic.co.uk, scroll down to the bottom of the screen and you'll see some familiar names and faces bunched together.

In future reviewers should state their relationship to the owners of the products.

I feel let down that fellow Britains should seek to support each others work in a less then up-front manner.

I expect this behaviour from other countries but not from fellow Britains. Come on chaps, play the game.
Message: Posted by: Sooty (Mar 25, 2007 02:19PM)
Zoinks!!!

I've just done a search on the course after seeing it advertised on jbtv.co.uk and found this thread.

I was going to sign up but now I'll reconsider.

Thanks Magic Café for saving me nearly 400 sheets. I'll spend the money on a PS3 instead.
Message: Posted by: David O (Mar 25, 2007 02:25PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-25 15:19, Sooty wrote:
Zoinks!!!

I've just done a search on the course after seeing it advertised on jbtv.co.uk and found this thread.

I was going to sign up but now I'll reconsider.

Thanks Magic Café for saving me nearly 400 sheets. I'll spend the money on a PS3 instead.
[/quote]
Buy a wii. They're 400 dollars less, and on a wii, you can beat up pokemon with Solid Snake :) (soon).
Message: Posted by: Baggins (Mar 25, 2007 02:41PM)
Is this related to the overpayment scam? I have read about this a lot on magicweek.

I am glad I have been warned about this as well as I don't want to send $800 to nigerians involved in drug tarffiking, counterfeiting, illegality etc.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Mar 25, 2007 03:03PM)
I must agree with the statements above regarding reviewers letting us know their relationship to the creators of the product being reviewed. Richard and Frederic are in business with Chris and Phil. They should have said so. Of course they are going to give this item a glowing review.

As I said earlier, it is always suspicious when new members logs on and their ONLY posts are in topics like this, giving glowing reviews and testimonials. I think now it is fair to say:

SUSPICIONS CONFIRMED!
Message: Posted by: Sooty (Mar 25, 2007 03:58PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-25 15:41, Baggins wrote:
Is this related to the overpayment scam? I have read about this a lot on magicweek.

I am glad I have been warned about this as well as I don't want to send $800 to nigerians involved in drug tarffiking, counterfeiting, illegality etc.
[/quote]

Crikey!!!

I was going to send them nearly £400. A near miss there. I've seen first hand the trouble that drugs can cause.
Message: Posted by: wallythe wizard (Mar 25, 2007 05:01PM)
I am on the course it is good and I am not a part of said "group"
wether you buy it is up to you but it is not a scam and the performers Phil Jay and Dugdale are top working performers,
wally
Message: Posted by: Best of British (Mar 25, 2007 05:51PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-25 18:01, wallythe wizard wrote:
I am on the course it is good and I am not a part of said "group"
wether you buy it is up to you but it is not a scam and the performers Phil Jay and Dugdale are top working performers,
wally

[/quote]
I notice from other posts you have made you sign off as Phillip (Phil is short for Phillip).

Is this yet another coincidence? Or perhaps a slip up on your part?

Once bitten, twice shy. As Kajagoogoo or someone once said.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Mar 25, 2007 10:32PM)
I can vouch for the fact that wallythe wizard is not Phil Jay.
Message: Posted by: wallythe wizard (Mar 26, 2007 04:31AM)
http://www.chrisdugdale.co.uk/
http://www.philjaymagic.com/magician.htm

Hi,
thanks Scot for confiming that , I think the rest of you guys have a bit of a bee in your bonets about this course , I am not trying to promote it, I have no stake in wether it is a sales success or if I am the only person that bought it. all I can say is that I am happy with the contents of the course so far I paid up front based on my knowlege of the two Authors Phil and Chris (see there websites above) . I only posted here because someone wanted an opinion from someone who shelled out for the course and was not in any way involved with it and secondly I posted to confirm that it is not a scam. I am not looking to get into arguments or having snide remarks made .
wally
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 26, 2007 08:24PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-24 05:34, fredericsharp wrote:
Chris has a stamp of excellence on his passport (for "oustanding performance" I think it is called) and I believe he his the only magician from the UK to have this work permit. [/quote]

What is this Stamp of Excellence? Any US guys know what this is that is given out from the US Government?

Jon
Message: Posted by: Craig Kyle (Mar 27, 2007 07:32AM)
I think its a stamp given by the magic circle.
Message: Posted by: Art Vandalay (Mar 27, 2007 08:45AM)
Hello everyone. I found a photo on the internet of Chris Dugdale picking up his certificate of excellence (at the same time his passport was stamped). I think it was the same week as he went to pick up the award for Dexter's Bar and Grill best family restaurant in Wandesworth... quite a week!

Click the pic for full size

[url=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5080586][img]http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/3/8509292743.jpg[/img][/url]
Message: Posted by: Sooty (Mar 27, 2007 10:24AM)
Crikey!!!

I didn't realise the course has a stamp of approval. I take back every negative comment I've made about the course. Thanks Art Vandalay for providing the proof.

I'm going to take my PS3 back to the shop, claim a refund, and invest in the course with immediate effect.

I expect to be earing a six figure salary within 12 months. I will report back here when I've made my first million.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Mar 27, 2007 01:21PM)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Message: Posted by: Boo Hat (Mar 27, 2007 02:10PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-26 21:24, Jon Allen wrote:

What is this Stamp of Excellence? Any US guys know what this is that is given out from the US Government?

Jon
[/quote]

His is probably referring to an O-1 visa (or earlier equivalent) which allows people of "extraordinary ability" to get visas to work in the US. The standards of qualifying for an O-1 visa are generally lower in the performing arts than they are for science and other areas, but usually involve providing some evidence of receiving awards, having critically acclaimed performances, having high earnings, etc.

BH
Message: Posted by: Flec (Mar 28, 2007 08:14PM)
I can see where all the conflict is comign from....the only guys who are giving it good reports seems to be new guys without identities, and only a few posts each.

I can tell you now, I'm nearly 6 months into the course and it has been well worth my money. the knowledge I have gained would have took years and years of trial and error.

[quote]
On 2007-03-24 15:17, mag1c kev1n wrote:
I want to hear what the REAL pros think of this. I'm talking martin cox, mike keech, ash marlow, sean heydon, martyn rowland, stuart watkins, max butler, dave bonsall, ian hamilton, richard penna, barrington powell, jim langley, alex lodge, jimmy carlo, jordan o grady, tj spencer, bruce munton, simon grant... The real workers!
[/quote]

Are these guys the real workers, or just a list of guys you know? What about some of the top earners? Sanderson, Zap, David Penn, Sav, Chris Priest, Peter Wardell....is this going to turn into a who's who of british magicians? If they are 'real workers' as you put it, then perhaps they would not need to invest in this course as they already earn a steady income. I personally have made the investment because I would like to become a 'real worker.'

People are here slating the course when they havn't even seen any of it. So what if you've never heard of Phil Jay and Chris Dugdale, so what if you don't like their style. If they can go out and earn big bucks and perform for celebrities week in, week out...then I'd like some insight as to how they work their gigs!

I think it was volume 3, Chris gives an detailed account as to how he got to perform in front of Her Majesty the Queen. How he worked the contract, the timings, the effects he used, the words he used, the follow up contacts, etc. Everything is detailed. Now obviously we cant all go out tomorow and perform for the queen like he did, but the knowledge can allow me to aim for audiences of a high caliber that I am performing for now!

The course isn't bout learning new tricks, it is about taking the tricks you already know to another level. Yes they do include a couple of DVDs and effects, and I think they are first class. The dvd on the classic force was very very good. I havn't seen Paul Greens, so I cannot compare. But I have been itching to put the classic force into my repetoir for months now, and with the help on the dvd I am slowly introducing it into my act.

And yes Danny, the US and the UK markets are VERY different and hard to master both. But the pair of them (Chris and Phil) seem to spend a lot of their time in the USA, and appear to be enjoying a wealthy lifestyle. $50,000 a year just from restaurant work? How many of us earn that?? Add to that the trade shows, the parties, and all the other events, you can imagine how busy these guys are. And yes, that's $50,000 EACH not between them.

It seems that whoever gives a good comment on this course is regarded as soliciting, or is working for Chris and Phil. I am not, I hope I have been around on the Café long enough for people to know that. You can check out my website, but don't expect anything big. No, I am not what you would call "a real worker" and most of the guys have never heard of me. But with the knowledge I have gained already, I have aready started earning higher fees and peforming better magic.

In a way, the less number of people who are on this course...the better. I'm glad that I'm one of the lucky few who knows some of the secrets, and I intend touse them to my full advantage.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Mar 29, 2007 04:06PM)
I, for one, never intended to come across as critical of "whoever gives a good comment on this course," nor of Phil Jay or Chris Dugdale. If I did, I apologize here and now. I was just suspicious, as you noted, Flec, of brand new members whose only posts were in this topic giving glowing reviews, and who, as it turns out, have business affiliations with its authors and therefore a vested in the sales of the course.

I'm sure it's a good course, and I wish you nothing but success. The only reasons I won't be purchasing it are as I've already stated: The cost and the fact that the seminar is only in NYC or London.
Message: Posted by: Reuben Dunn (Apr 1, 2007 02:40AM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-21 10:27, wonder pefomance wrote:
Chris Dugdale and Mike Jay have produced some of the most expensive PDFs out there. This is to be applauded. I heard that C. Dugdale has implemented futuristic technology in the PDFs that automatically calls his copywright attorney in NYC if one of the course subscribers goes bad and makes the files available via P2P DL.
[/quote]

Umm..."Wonder" aren't you the same guy who wrote in January: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=190906&forum=15&post=4860785

"Hey hey - Luke has been working on this new book for the last few years with every spare minute that he's had. The layout, binding and general look and feel of the book are tip top. Great material direct from his Vegas one man show all wrapped up in an awesome package. The books are now back from the printers and when they ship in just a few days time everyone will see their glory."

It's funny that this "book" turned out to be nothing more than 44 pages, double sided, that was held together by a ribbon...

Now considering that your conception of what a bound book is, as opposed to the rest of the world, should we really rely on you for such up to date information?
Message: Posted by: Reuben Dunn (Apr 1, 2007 02:32PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-01 11:31, paymerich wrote:
I read the advert on the web site and its a bit lacking of the types of magic it will teach ( other than cards). It seems like a great idea. It sounds like great information will be included in this course. But the claim to get some PDFs totally up to 300 pages and some DVDs does not make me want to shell out $600 USD. For $600 you should be getting the equivalent of the original tarbell course( over 1000 pages) already printed out for you! I just re-read and it said props and effects are included buttttttt what are those effects ? In this day and age a table of contents would help answer a ton of questions . I understand Mr stone you have benefited from direct contact with Mr Jay but we will not be so lucky. I think until an independant review comes out I will hold off .
[/quote]

I have to agree, with the avent of print on demand surely it would be better, given the overall cost to have hard printed books?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 1, 2007 04:20PM)
Lets restate my position as it seems to have been misinturpreted.

First off I said the under 50 post crowd SO happy, and the only posts they make are to say how happy they are, make me a bit shy.

I said that the 2 markets are vastly different, and from what I have seen they have no real idea what they are talking about in America.

I said you can tell a lot from the ad copy. I also said that the claims seem to be inflated.

NOW let me state that these guys have been exposed for what they are good or bad. (Told ya so).

Oh and the whole passport thing is so idiotic as to not need comment. It shows a huge misunderstanding of how immigration works, and makes me wonder HOW MUCH such a person could possibly work in the country. But I digress.

They obviously had a marketing idea here. Not a great one as they were too arrogant and felt they were smarter than everyone else in the world. If this is how they sell THIS product, to people who are LOOKING FOR IT AND DESPIRATE FOR IT, then how good can they be at selling products to people often reluctant to buy the idea in the first place?

THAT really is the central quesiton. IF these are the techniques they have to resort to in order to get this thing sold, how great can it be? If this is their idea of a "good marketinig strategy", which it obviously was a contrived plan, then what is their idea of a good marketing strategy? See THESE are the questions you have to ask.

Forget the reviews for they are tainted, every one of them. Forget the ad copy for it is designed to excite you. Look at the ACTIONS of those involved. Sorry guys POLICE WORK 101. Old habits creeping up. But it is fun to see this stuff happen LOL.

Would I consider buying it? Oh god no. It is not even about content or if it works or does not work, it is about the guys putting it out and their actions alone.

Sorry guys but you biffed it.
Message: Posted by: Daniel_Alexander (May 1, 2007 09:03AM)
Hey guys

A lot of emotions flying around this thread, is it such a big deal that Phil and Chris's friends said the course was good? They admitted in earlier posts that they were friends of Phil and Chris, whats the big fuss?

I bought the course when it came out, on the strength of a lecture I had heard from Chris at the corporate zone magic day, and the fect that so many punters had quoted phil jay to me saying they had seen/hired him at an event.

I have not been dissapointed, the secrets inside are phenomenal and include a transcipt of a conversation between Chris and Steven Speilbergs marketing guy (i may have the exact title wrong but he was that kind of ilk) where the guy gave Chris advice on how to market himself for 4 figure gigs. About half way through the course I very conservatively estimate the information has already gained me £2000 worth of money ($4000) that I would not otherwise have made. If I take the overall mindset shift it has created in me and advice on how to tap into new and top markets I don't know what figure to put on it.

Seriously as said before, one gig more than covers the cost I cannot believe anyone could read all the material in the course and not gain one extra gig, I cannot believe anyone could read one episode and not gain an extra gig from it. The stuff is real business advice that you would only otherwise get from decades in the business.

I am happy to talk to anyone about my experience of the course on +44 7930 530 638 or at Daniel@charismagic.com

Regards,


Daniel.
Message: Posted by: Martino (May 22, 2007 07:03AM)
I am utterly astounded and disgusted at some of the garbage spouted in this thread in the direction of people who are giving their honest opinions on this course and it's content. Some of the posts don't just border on the libellous, they ARE libellous. (Simon Hughes - if I were Fred you'd have been hearing from my solicitor.) DannyDoyle - Why do you doubt Fred's abilities if he was able to learn something from the course? Do you know everything there is to know about the magic and entertainment business? Do you know everything about sales, marketing, performing? Just because someone learned something from the course you assume them to be a neophyte! Nonsense. I am a sales professional who has been doing the job succesfully for 10 years. Do I learn something new every time I spend a day out with my manager? Yes. Therefore your comment is invalid.

I am a friend of Fred Sharps, whom I have known for around 10 years. He is a highly entertaining, extremely busy and successful magician in the UK and has been for a long time now (as other people who know him have also testified). I have not seen the course (although I am thinking about getting it) but for me, to hear that someone as good a magician as Fred and as successful as Fred has gotten true value from it, then I feel it must be worthwhile. For the record, to the best of my knowledge Fred is not an associate of either Phil Jay or Chris Dugdale.

Also, why is the opinion of someone who only has a couple of posts any less valid than someone who has 2 or 3 thousand posts? IMO, if someone is able to spend the amount of time online to rack up a huge number of posts, then I doubt that they are out there in the real world, performing magic and running a succesful business.

I have seen Fred perform in the real world. I have seen other performers (on DVD) who have "contributed" to this thread and who have cast aspersions on Freds opinion or performing experience. I know who I'd rather pay to come and entertain at my functions! It would be Fred every time.

On an anonymous BB, the opinion of one peron is no more or less valid than any other unless you specifically know the person involved. So lets remember that before we start throwing around accusations and blatant untruths.

This has got me so riled up, I can't believe some people. Sheesh!

Fred, Iain, Kevin - you are all gents and I am glad to be able to call you friends! The rest of you can go forth and multiply in short jerky movements!
Message: Posted by: Trick Style (May 22, 2007 04:20PM)
Just to add my tuppence worth, I think this course is worth every single penny.

Because of some of the negative postings earlier in this thread I want to distance myself from the politics and focus on the product itself.

This course gives you the REAL WORK on what it takes to get paid for gigs in the real world from people who have been there and done it. Plain and simple.

If you think you're interested in that then buy it. If you're not interetsed in securing paid for gigs (or upping your fee if you're already gigging), then give it a miss. Those of us who own the course will be glad you did.
Message: Posted by: Todd Bernard (Nov 22, 2009 03:30PM)
I'm waiting for a magic course that teaches you how to make huge gobs of money selling books and pdf files on how to make lots of money as a magician. There's something that would be worth every penny. Why doesn't that kind of info ever make it into one of these self help books?

How to make lots of money selling books and PDF's on, "How To Make Big Bucks As A Magician". Please let me know when someone does. (lol)

I can see the description for it reading something like this.

Have you ever wondered how some magicians make their income? Wonder no more. For the first time ever Todd Bernard will sell you all the secrets you will ever need to know on how to make huge money selling books and PDF's to other magician's teaching them how to make money as an artist. It'll will teach you every step you'll need to know to start writing your own PDF files. It will teach you the benifits of PDF's over actual books, and all the marketing strategies that will have magician's dying to get their hands on it. Learn how to price your PDF files to get the maximum return as quick as possible before reviews start coming in.

Wait, that's not all! What? There's more? Yes. If you pre-order today Todd Bernard with personally autograph a special limited edition just for you. This special edition will be reserved to only the first 1000 customers to pre-order. After that, no more special editions will be printed.

Just ask what some of Todd's closet friends are saying about it.

"This course is the best thing to ever happen since slice bread"- Iam A. Tool

"I seen the manuscript and I was blown away of all the valuable information it contains. This is a must for every magician."- Git Outahere

"I just bought my first car putting Todd's info into action. Now I can drive to my gigs instead of taking public transit." - B Billy Bop

Don't miss out on this chance. Once they're gone, they are gone!