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Topic: Warning for American Bill Users!!!
Message: Posted by: DerekMerdinyan (Nov 28, 2006 06:13PM)
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232503,00.html[/url]

Paper money is now discriminatory towards blind citizens who can not fairly tell one bill from another.

What can we expect in the future:

Different Textures
Different Sizes
Bumps (braille like)

This may have some major impacts (both positive and negative) upon bill magic.

Derek Merdinyan
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Nov 28, 2006 06:27PM)
To access the above address, which is valid, you must copy and paste it into your browser. The commas in the address prevent the hyperlink from being complete.

Also, this has been tried before so many times that it will be a LONG time before anything actually happens. This is bound to be some liberal judge somewhere who's decision will be challenged and it will end up in a higher court on appeal.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Conus (Dec 2, 2006 05:34PM)
This opens up all kinds of new possibilities. Bring it on!!!
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Dec 16, 2006 06:37AM)
If someone wants to change a bill of one denomination into another denomination, and the bills differ in size, just modify the fold that you're using. I think that a difference in texture would make a little more sense that a change in size. I'd think that texture is harder to counterfeit than size would be.
Message: Posted by: Joey Stalin (Dec 16, 2006 10:23AM)
I'll probably sound like a jerk for saying this but screw it. TS for them. They, a minority, need to adapt to the world. Not the world adapting to a minority. But I am Canadian so I don't need to worry about that. Worst I have to deal with is our different colour currency. There is a thing as being too PC as well.
Message: Posted by: montemagic (Dec 18, 2006 11:18PM)
I'm with Joey, even if he is a Canadian.

:)
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Dec 23, 2006 01:54AM)
I agree, it's an overly PC thing. If more people in the U.S. were indignant over little things, like they are now, we'd be....the French. ;) But, then again, we'd finally understand why some people find Jerry Lewis to be funny. :D
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Dec 23, 2006 11:32PM)
Wee..Wee..Monsieur.

Mark. ;)
Message: Posted by: Astrid (Dec 25, 2006 05:12PM)
Working for a bank I have heard several rumors of such changes, but have been assured that should such a change take place, we would have several YEARS of notice because of not only the amount of time it would take to create said bills, but also because of the time it would take to change all of the bill counting technology that federal banks and billions of businesses worldwide rely on. Personally, because I work with money so darn much I look forward to a more interesting looking/feeling bill....but that's just me. ;-)
Message: Posted by: Robert-o (Dec 27, 2006 08:20AM)
My neighbor is blind and he has no problems. He just keeps his money in seperate banded stacks so he can tell just by grabbing it as to which denomination he is holding. He says that they did it for this many years, why change it now? It's all pc stuff.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Dec 28, 2006 08:09AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-28 19:27, mrunge wrote:
This is bound to be some liberal judge somewhere who's decision will be challenged and it will end up in a higher court on appeal.

Mark.
[/quote]

Hey now, play nice! I'm a liberal, but not all of us are PC nuts! This is a hare-brained decision from the lunatic fringe.
By the way, I like Jerry Lewis too!
Message: Posted by: Bill Hallahan (Jan 2, 2007 04:02PM)
Conus wrote:
[quote]
This opens up all kinds of new possibilities. Bring it on!!!
[/quote]
I agree. Sure, somethings won't be possible that can be done now, but some of those routines could be adapted, for example, you could still write a check for $100.00 and then change it into a $100 dollar bill. Checks can be any size you want.

The different sizes will allow more possibilities, just like different size coins do. It will be easier to hide one or more bills behind another, possibly even without folding them. Or, two bills can be made into an envelope that hold a smaller bill. I'm sure there are more ideas.

Having 51 different types of quarters - that is an annoyance! There's probably some way to use that too, perhaps choosing a state in a mental magic routine.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Jan 2, 2007 05:36PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-02 17:02, Bill Hallahan wrote:


Having 51 different types of quarters - that is an annoyance! There's probably some way to use that too, perhaps choosing a state in a mental magic routine.
[/quote]

I played around with using those so-called "collectable" quarters a few years ago, you know the ones that have the state pictures painted?. I had the idea of taking a regular quarter and making it technicolor, but I never really came up with a routine I liked.

I always make sure I have at least 1 or 2 "old" quarters in my pocket so I can still do "Liepsig's Pride"

By the way the shrimpy Dollar coin is about to raise it's hideous head again, this time in a series of small Dollar coins issued with the US Presidents on them, several a year, for decades to come, ARRGGGGHHHHHH
Message: Posted by: SteveTheMagician (Jan 2, 2007 06:12PM)
That deffinetly opens up more possiblities for more amazing magic! bring it on!

imagine having a green one (normal size) and a large ...i dunno... red five, then making them switch sizes but stay the same color... that'd be cool

:-D

-steve
Message: Posted by: Mark R. Williams (Jan 23, 2007 05:17PM)
Personally I don't see how braille money would work anyway. A few folds and hours in a pocket or wallet and its done for. How many times have we seen well worn currency show up.

Do they sugest making the money out of plastic?!?!?!?

Just a bunch more PC crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

regards,

Mark
Message: Posted by: Joey Stalin (Jan 23, 2007 06:15PM)
Well about the plastic remark, have you ever felt Australian money? Practically impossible to tear that stuff.

But upon inspection of our money, Canadian bills, there are already braille like marks on the bills.
Message: Posted by: Conus (Jan 27, 2007 05:20PM)
Referencing Bill Hallahan & DStachowiak
[quote]Having 51 different types of quarters - that is an annoyance! There's probably some way to use that too, perhaps choosing a state in a mental magic routine.[/quote]

Check out my version of [b]Leipzig's coin to glass[/b] using any borrowed and marked state quarter.

The trick is in [b]The Collected Soapbox Derby[/b] at feenx.net.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Feb 5, 2007 07:46AM)
I think it's good that at last the visually impaired in the USA are also going to be able to apprieciate a bill switch.

(apologies to any blind people that might be offended...although come to think of it they're not going to be reading it....oh God I'm making things worse....)
Neal
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Feb 5, 2007 07:13PM)
I find it interesting that so many people here are so eager to sh!t on the blind. Magic is a fairly visul art, no? One would think there might be a bit more compassion. How would we like to go through life, taking other people's word that a certain bill belongs in a certain rubber band?

Incidently, Canada already has a braille-like system in place.

Believe me, I'm not a PC kind of guy. But this just struck me as odd...

At any rate, it will be interesting to see what new challenges and opportunities the new currency brings us.

~Mike
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (Feb 24, 2007 07:02PM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-16 11:23, Joey Stalin wrote:
I'll probably sound like a jerk for saying this but screw it. TS for them. They, a minority, need to adapt to the world. Not the world adapting to a minority. But I am Canadian so I don't need to worry about that. Worst I have to deal with is our different colour currency. There is a thing as being too PC as well.
[/quote]

I agree that the world has gone PC crazy but at the same time I'm surprised by some of what I am seeing on this thread... if there's a way to help those who have a major disadvantage in life I am for it. If the cost is having to rethink a few ways to do a magic trick, I think that is a small price to pay.

I don't know if this effort makes real sense or not... this is the first I've heard of it...but I certainly wouldn't want to dismiss it because of some magic effects. Jeez.

Also, Not that it really matters to me but I am not certain who the minority is in this case.
Message: Posted by: Gary Richards (Feb 24, 2007 07:33PM)
Interesting thread, for a number of reasons. Here's a story about some magic I witnessed, performed years ago, by the first blind scout to ever achieve the rank of Eagle. For lifesaving merit badge he was required to stand on the beach, fully clothed, his back to the water. At the sound of screaming, he was required to spin around, spot the victim, disrobe to his swimsuit, charge into the water and rescue the victim, who, following the sound of his scream, did a surface dive and went out of sight, leaving only ripples to indicate location. I watched, mesmorized, as this particular scout, blind from birth, swam straight toward the sound of screaming, dove for the victim, wrestled him into a rescue hold, and then turned around and towed him safely to shore. And while I have always been fascinated by how he managed to locate the victim just by sound, an even bigger wonder for me, and one which has haunted me for years is this: After wrestling and thrashing around in the water, how did he know which direction the shore was in? I asked him about it later, and he smiled, and said, "Oh, I just knew." I always had the distinct impression that he saw more without eyes than I did with them. There's magic, and then there's Magic.
Message: Posted by: Mysterioii (Feb 28, 2007 12:06PM)
First off, anyone in this thread that essentially is saying "screw the blind" is a heartless ahole. Anybody can be disabled in many different ways at anytime, these people sure as hell didn't choose it, and they by and large do a fantastic job of adapting to this world. That being said, the government (at least, a GOOD government) serves it's people, ALL of it's people, in the best way it can. The blind pay taxes too. This is why government facilities tend to be made the most accessible, the most "PC", because they DO have a responsibility to serve the citizenry as best they can. Sometimes there are conflicts and it's up to "the system" to sort it all out.

Secondly, did everyone bother to read the article? Apparently many blind people aren't even pushing for this or care about it...

"But John Paré, director of public relations for the National Federation of the Blind, the nation's largest organization representing blind people, said identifying the money is hardly the most difficult obstacle for the blind to overcome.
The focus for improving the lives of blind Americans needs to be put on earning money not figuring out how to identify money," he said. "Over 70 percent of blind Americans are under-employed or unemployed and this is what needs to be addressed.
"It really is distracting to have this lawsuit," he said, since assistance should concentrate on people "who don't have the money in the first place."

Furthermore a representative of the company that brought the lawsuit said:

"I don't think it quite matters as long as it allows for identification without sight," she said of any proposed changes. "Sooner is better" but it "depends on the changes being used." ACB is not going to demand of Treasury "wild and crazy changes, you have to do it now," she said.

So before we assume that we'll end up with dissimilar sizes and colors, consider that, if ANYTHING happens, we may end up with a couple of little bumps to ignore. If it really bothers you, send a letter to the treasury department or start a petition or something. You'll look like an idiot.
Message: Posted by: P.T. Murphy (Mar 1, 2007 08:53AM)
Most every country has differing colors and sizes for each denomination of bill. If you want to know how to do a great bill switch with foriegn money send me an e-mail. Or check out my effect "Eugene's Last Dollar" on YourMagic.com. The instructions had a method for U.S. Dollars, Pound Notes and Euros. But I have adapted my method to work with Japanese and Chinese bills as well. It actually works better when the size and color of the bills differ.

SHAMELESS self promotion I know...but this topic is PERFECT for it!
Message: Posted by: Mark R. Williams (Mar 4, 2007 01:45PM)
I hold nothing against the blind; we could all share this same fate at any time.

BUT, how many BILLIONS of dollars will this cost and how many people will really benefit?

When it comes down to it, I don't mind if the bills end up being different colors and or sizes.

I just mind the cost and reason for the change.

I also resent being told I MUST support some one or pay the cost for someone else.

I do not like being told "If even ONE person or child is helped, it is worth the cost"!!

BS
People tell me that I must pay for this or that, without ever weighing to cost verses BENEFIT ratio!

Let those people who want ME to pay for THEIR generosity with MY money, pay themselves with THEIR money. When some one wants to give THEIR own money away, I could care less. They can do as they please!

We all face all things we can and cannot do, every day. We all make choices for ourselves every day. We discriminate against ourselves and our own needs (and wants) EVERYDAY! Those of us who are REASONBLE and MATURE, realize the world does not always revolve around US.

We should also be able to discriminate against OTHERS and THEIR need (or WANTS) if we want WITHOUT being told WE are WRONG.

People are: Sad, frustrated, in want, EVERYDAY! And it is not their Neighbors responsibility to take care of them.

Yes it is Christian and kind to help others, but not to be FORCED to. Charity begins in the home, with your own family.

Some things do come with a price tag much too high for the results obtained.

Remember the Constitution of the United States guarantees only the "Pursuit of Happiness" not the guarantee that we WILL be happy.

Please pardon my rant, but ALL this entire PC crap is having a dreadful toll on this country and the cost is swiftly becoming more than we can ALL bear.

M
Message: Posted by: Mysterioii (Mar 5, 2007 08:00AM)
First off, you apparently have no concept of how our society works. And you still apparently didn't read the part about how MOST blind people aren't pushing for this and how the director of public relations for the National Federation of the Blind considers this a distracting and frivolous lawsuit.

Secondly, you rant about how your tax money is being spent. The blind pay taxes too, the government must also consider their wants and needs. "A government for the people and by the people" or something like that, afterall.

>>"I also resent being told I MUST support some one or pay the cost for someone else..."
Well I don't care much for the welfare system either but it is what it is, so if you don't like it say so with your votes or find somewhere else to live that pleases you more. If you don't want to print YOUR money in any special way, then the state of Mark R. Williams can do whatever it wants. However the American government has to address the concerns of it's citizenry as they are brought up. Sometimes "the system" displeases some people. T.S., it's our system, so if you don't like it then vote for someone else or try to find a country that pleases you better.

>>I do not like being told "If even ONE person or child is helped, it is worth the cost"!!
Who said that here? Nobody. If one person in the world had a head the size of a small car the government isn't going to make all public buildings have doors big enough for his monster head to fit through. However when "the system" decides that a subset of society is significant enough in numbers that some provisions need to be made I find it commendable that they make some provisions.

>>Charity begins in the home, with your own family.
Irrelevant, this isn't charity, it's the government being responsible to a subset of it's citizenry.

>>Let those people who want ME to pay for THEIR generosity with MY money, pay themselves with THEIR money.

This is tax money, it IS their money too. If you think you're paying too much in taxes then by all means vote for the next politician that promises to reduce them for you.

>>People tell me that I must pay for this or that, without
>>ever weighing to cost verses BENEFIT ratio!
Of course they do.

>>People are: Sad, frustrated, in want, EVERYDAY! And it is not their Neighbors responsibility to take care of them.

Again you have no concept of how taxes and society work. You don't have to do anything more on the side, but your taxes are forfeit for the govt. to do with as it sees fit, and hopefully it uses it for the betterment and protection of it's citizens. If you're displeased with how your ex-money is spent, go write some letters and change who you vote for.

>>We should also be able to discriminate against OTHERS and
>>THEIR need (or WANTS) if we want WITHOUT being told WE are WRONG.
Of course you can, you're not the government. You can print your own money however you want, just don't expect them to take it at Wal-Mart. in the mean time, pay your taxes.

>>BUT, how many BILLIONS of dollars will this cost

Billions? Are you freakin' serious?? Hmm, rounding down I'm going to say none. If you read the article and the other posts you'd see that nobody is REALLY pushing for everything to be different sizes and colors, not even the group that brought the lawsuit... They just want SOMETHING to help tell the bills apart, which can be as simple as a few braille-like dots or notches pressed or cut into the bills at the time of printing. The actual cost of putting a bump or two on the next line of printing plates that gets designed, oh lets go out on a limb and say $10K on the prototype. With govt. overhead and overspending maybe a couple million. Fairly insignificant. A bump or notch on a bill would NOT require any redesign or redeployment of all the myriad bill readers all over the place... those things are already robust enough to accept the rattiest torn up toilet-paper-like bills floating around, I'm sure an almost imperceptible bump won't cause them a problem. And your astounding bill switches would remain unaffected.

>>Remember the Constitution of the United States guarantees only
>>the "Pursuit of Happiness" not the guarantee that we WILL be happy.

Haha, great point, remember that. You're the one that's unhappy here. By your own logic, you've got nothing to complain about.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Mar 5, 2007 02:13PM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-16 11:23, Joey Stalin wrote:
I'll probably sound like a jerk for saying this but screw it. TS for them. They, a minority, need to adapt to the world. Not the world adapting to a minority. But I am Canadian so I don't need to worry about that. Worst I have to deal with is our different colour currency. There is a thing as being too PC as well.
[/quote]

Yes there is such a thing as TOO PC, but this is NOT it.

Although I know that the blind have developed their own ways to distinguish between bills by folding them different ways.

They still need to know initially what the bill is.

But think about how people could be cruel and lie about the bill a blind person is using to buy something with?

I think the braile is the best bet as it requires no re-design of the bill. Canadian bills have had braile for years now.

I don't see what different colours have to do with helping the blind though. The visually impared and those not completely blind, sure.
Message: Posted by: adramindmagic (Mar 11, 2007 10:56AM)
I can't see (Pub intended) on a whole nation changing it's money just for this reason. Then again I didn't predict Bush would win again either.
Message: Posted by: Mysterioii (Mar 11, 2007 01:01PM)
Well we're constantly changing our bills as we go forward to thwart counterfeitting attempts anyway. Watermarks, new inks, splashes of color, etc. Nobody is asking for an immediate change. For cryin' out loud it could boil down to designing in a couple of braille bumps on the next round of new bill designs that we'd be putting out anyway. Net cost: practically nothing, just wait until the treasury department makes other changes.

They already do looney things like state quarters, funky new nickels and now the presidential dollars that in my opinion are MORE problematic for magicians and just plain unneccessary in general.
Message: Posted by: Joey Stalin (Mar 11, 2007 03:55PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-05 15:13, gdw wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-12-16 11:23, Joey Stalin wrote:
I'll probably sound like a jerk for saying this but screw it. TS for them. They, a minority, need to adapt to the world. Not the world adapting to a minority. But I am Canadian so I don't need to worry about that. Worst I have to deal with is our different colour currency. There is a thing as being too PC as well.
[/quote]

Yes there is such a thing as TOO PC, but this is NOT it.

Although I know that the blind have developed their own ways to distinguish between bills by folding them different ways.

They still need to know initially what the bill is.

But think about how people could be cruel and lie about the bill a blind person is using to buy something with?

I think the braile is the best bet as it requires no re-design of the bill. Canadian bills have had braile for years now.

I don't see what different colours have to do with helping the blind though. The visually impared and those not completely blind, sure.
[/quote]

Yeah:
[quote]
On 2007-01-23 19:15, Joey Stalin wrote:
Well about the plastic remark, have you ever felt Australian money? Practically impossible to tear that stuff.

But upon inspection of our money, Canadian bills, there are already braille like marks on the bills.
[/quote]

Yeah they need to know what they are to begin with. That is what bank tellers, friends and family are for.

I was saying that being Canadian, this threat to you Yanks of different size bills doesn't matter to me.

I was saying that the worst I have to deal with, magic wise, is the different colour bills.
Message: Posted by: Bob Johnston (May 8, 2007 05:01PM)
Just for the record, many magicians are blind or legally blind. I am, in fact, legally blind.

The US is one of very few countries that do not use different size currency for each denomination. Our GW just stopped a move to have US currency made in different sizes.

Bob
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (May 26, 2008 09:34PM)
I don't think Braile would work. it would to easy to counterfeit. Just flatten the braile and put a different braile back on the bill.