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Topic: A new way to charge fees
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 14, 2007 09:30PM)
Dear customer: Please pay according to what you can honestly afford, and according to how entertaining the show was. Just put the payment in a sealed envelope.
Message: Posted by: nucinud (Jan 14, 2007 10:04PM)
I can't agree with this.
Message: Posted by: rossmacrae (Jan 14, 2007 10:41PM)
"That was a WONDERFUL show - never had better! Here's a check for $25."
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Jan 14, 2007 11:06PM)
This idea works very well in restuarants. I have been to one that lets its customers pay what they feel the meal was worth. People end up paying MORE!

However, with a magician, people don't know how much we are worth and how much to pay. So they will underpay most of the time.
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Jan 14, 2007 11:09PM)
How could a person under pay what you are worth to them? What you think you are worth to them, yeah.
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Jan 14, 2007 11:22PM)
Jerrine - because they do not know how to show that worth.

For example...

A cup of coffee costs $3.
If I say - pay what is worth you will pay me MORE then $3 if you like it or less then $3 if you don't.

However, no one knows what a magic show is supposed to be worth. They pick the figure out of their head.

And that figure is usually lower then accepted market rate.
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 15, 2007 08:27AM)
Unless people you perform for already have some experience booking magicians, then they'll know the going rates. This idea might work best in private situations (house parties, for example) and with social organizations, because I have a feeling business and corporate entities wouldn't know how to deal with such a financial arrangement, and their heads might explode.
Message: Posted by: suspectacts (Jan 15, 2007 08:42AM)
Todsky -

50 years ago (when credit much harder to secure) people only bought cars and houses when they had 100% of the money in hand. Now plenty of people buy cars that will take them years and years to pay off. Can those people 'honestly' afford that car? What about people who spend 10 of thousands of dollars on a wedding? Or

The modern North American bases most of their spending on every factor EXCEPT whether or not they can afford it.
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Jan 15, 2007 08:48AM)
Sure they know how to show that worth. There is no secret you want money. How much is the question is it not? You can get less than you think you are worth to them, but they are actually paying what they think you are worth to them. I submit what they think is most important in this case, what with the paying and all. Convincing them that you are worth more, closer or even higher than the number you had in mind, now that's the trick. It's the fundamentals of Busking, which is what is happening in todsky's given. See the show then decide what to pay = Busking. Sure you are gathering the crowd in a different manner, a prearranged meeting, but I see it as Busking.
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Jan 15, 2007 04:49PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-15 09:48, Jerrine wrote:
Sure they know how to show that worth. There is no secret you want money. How much is the question is it not?
[/quote]

Yes. That is what I said.

[quote]
You can get less than you think you are worth to them, but they are actually paying what they think you are worth to them.
[/quote]

But this number is not indictative of your actual worth to them because they do not know how much you MIGHT be worth.

Think of it this way....

They give you a ranking from 1-10 in their head. 1 is bad, 10 is amazing and 5 is average.

So they know what your worth is based on that ranking. However, they don't know how to transfer that worth into a dollar amount.

[quote]
I submit what they think is most important in this case, what with the paying and all. Convincing them that you are worth more, closer or even higher than the number you had in mind, now that's the trick.
[/quote]

You don't need to trick them. You would just need to tell them, out right, what the cost of a magician is. You tell them that a bad magician gets $150, a good magicians $250 and a great magician $300 and then let them choose how much.

[quote]
It's the fundamentals of Busking, which is what is happening in todsky's given. See the show then decide what to pay = Busking. Sure you are gathering the crowd in a different manner, a prearranged meeting, but I see it as Busking.
[/quote]

No. Whilst this system is more like busking then a traditional fee, busking is VERY different.

1) Everyone in the audience pays a small amount to see a busker. ONE person pays a performer's fee. the thought processes to pay $5-$10 is very different to $1000.

2) A busker's show is designed around maximising his or her hat. A professional performs their show and gets paid at the end.

3) A busker gathers a crowd. This is very different from a prearranged meeting.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 15, 2007 07:06PM)
I think Nicholas is right on the money with this one. The real point here is that most clients have never used or hired a magician before. because of this, there is no real point to base a price upon because they have no idea what the base price or going rate is for a magician. even if they thought you were fanastic, they have no idea how much a fantasic magician show get paid cause they have never seenor experienced having to pay for one before.

Case in point. If you want great sneakers then you know there are brand names out there and there are also cheaper ones as well. You see the ads and you go to the stores. You are used to buying sneakers when you need them. because of this, you obtain market data. You know that certain brands cost more and associate better brands with higher prices. You also know what that price is. this gives you a basis for which to start from.

With magic, you do not have this luxury. People really do not know what a base fee is for a magician or for what you are doing or for magical entertainment in their market. there is nothing from their past history that allows them to gain this information.

So what ends up happening? Well the person thinks the show was awesome, thinks um how much is for awesome and gives you a much lower rate then what you really wanted to get simply cause they have no idea.

Nicholas is right on with this one.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 15, 2007 07:26PM)
I would have to disagree that most clients are booking a magician for the first time. In my experience, it's more like 50/50. Also, many who haven't booked a magician have booked a music band, which also charges in the same ballpark as a magician.
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Jan 15, 2007 07:47PM)
"But this number is not indictative of your actual worth to them because they do not know how much you MIGHT be worth."

It doesn't matter what you might be worth. If you ask someone to pay you what they think you are worth, which is todsky's given, if they only think you are worth $1 that's what you will get. Which spurred rossmacrae's post, ""That was a WONDERFUL show - never had better! Here's a check for $25."

"You don't need to trick them. You would just need to tell them, out right, what the cost of a magician is. You tell them that a bad magician gets $150, a good magicians $250 and a great magician $300 and then let them choose how much."

I used the word trick in the sense of "that's the ticket", not that you would actually have to trick anyone. If you tell them outright what you expect, then you are not merely asking them to pay what they think you are worth, which is todsky's given.

"1) Everyone in the audience pays a small amount to see a busker. ONE person pays a performer's fee. the thought processes to pay $5-$10 is very different to $1000."

True for most sane people.

"2) A busker's show is designed around maximising his or her hat. A professional performs their show and gets paid at the end."

The Hat is at the end, and that's when a Busker gets paid. A Busker is a professional, what with the pay and all. Both are trying to please an audience. The Busker needs to please as many as possible. The other Magician primarily the ONE person with the $1000.

"3) A busker gathers a crowd. This is very different from a prearranged meeting."

Yes it is, IMHO more direct and difficult, however one could say that booking that show is gathering the crowd. No booking, no crowd. True, you are selling the ONE person instead of the many.


I apologize for posting concerning todsky's given, the purpose of this thread. I'll have to bone up on my twisting the thread and ignoring the original post skills. It may take some time, but I'll get it down.
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 15, 2007 08:12PM)
The purpose of my proposal is not necessarily to boost one's income. It's more of a social and economic experiment.
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Jan 15, 2007 09:30PM)
Hmmm... Todsky, Here's a twist...Perhaps we should offer to pay them for us to perform?

After all, they are providing us with their smiles and laughter free of charge.


Orm work out an exchange... we perform in exchange for use of their car, their home, a meal, etc...

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 15, 2007 10:03PM)
I was wondering when you'd pipe in, Jon.
As far as exchange, see my thread Magic for Barter.
Message: Posted by: keithmagic (Jan 15, 2007 10:57PM)
GREAT IDEA TODSKY!

Now here is how you should go about your experiment... Become the guinea pig!

Set up a blog where you can write about the experience. Assuming you are full-time, make a public declaration that you will only work for random contributions based on what people think you're show is worth.

Do this for one year. Remember - you can't CHARGE - only accept!

I'd love to see where you stand at the end of the year! Let us know how it goes (that is - if you can keep your ISP paid...!).

best of luck.
keith
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Jan 15, 2007 10:58PM)
Jerrine - I assume you don't busk much!

good performers can get no money from busking.

I've seen guys with a tip, a silk and no technique make hundreds.

The whole show is structured around how to maximise each person paying. The way in which the audience is seated, how the arrive and leave, what tricks are performed and when. A professional who is expecting ONE person to pay him does not do this. And if he did, it would be a very strange show.

The problem you don't quite get is that if a customer pays what they THINK you are worth...they are guessing! They are not paying what they KNOW the show is worth to them. They are picking what a good magician MIGHT be worth.
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Jan 16, 2007 12:21AM)
Nicholas-

You would assume wrong. Glad it wasn't a bet? My audience doesn't sit either. Ideally they don't leave because I am entertaining and can hold their attention. Wish that were always true! I'm fully aware of what a professional Magician who does not busk does. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Ask the cats, they know.

The problem you don't quite get is todsky's given. In case you have forgotten or can't scroll up I'll copy it here: "Dear customer: Please pay according to what you can honestly afford, and according to how entertaining the show was. Just put the payment in a sealed envelope."

Sounds like a sorry hat line huh? This is in effect asking the customer to pay what they think, what they think, what they think, what they think, the show was worth. The emphasised point is what they think. Not what you think, or anyone else on the planet, what they think. You are allowing them, in todsky's given, to make that decision. It will be based on any number of things, but it is up to them. Will you get what you think the show is worth? Probably not. Will they pay what they think is fair? Yes. That is todsky's given. Makes no difference if they know jack squat about what a good or bad Magician is worth here, there, or anywhere.

Say that is crazy, bad idea, totally insane if you want but todsky's given is what I am addressing. I submit that it is impossible for a person to under pay what, here it is again, what they think the show is worth. They could look you straight in the eye and say, "That's the worst example of entertainment I could ever imagine. Gather your props and get out!" You leave without a red cent.

I'm curious just how this approach would work out. I doubt that anyone could afford to spend the time necessary to give it a fair chance. It would be cool if a person who could care less about the money could spend a year to experiment, per Keith's suggestion, and keep a blog so we could monitor results. We all might learn from the results. Perhaps regional or social trends.
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 16, 2007 08:11AM)
Jerrine, I do think, however, as suggested by Nicholas earlier, it would be okay to let a client know what a typical fee is for magic, provided they ask you. How many would ask? I have no idea.
And I do hope to carry out this experiment at some time, and it will hopefully result in a book.
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Jan 16, 2007 06:14PM)
Perhaps you could hand out a business card to the "client" at the end of your show that reminds hinm or her to...

"Pay what you feel my show is worth, but please note that the average magician in our area charges $900"... (or insert the money figure that is representative of your particualr geographic region).

The challenge will be (if they "really" like your show (and like "you")), for the client to "plan ahead" so that he/she withdraws enough money from the local bank machine in advance, to pay you what you're worth.

Hmmm... what if they really "REALLY" like your show, and place a high monetary value on it (and take the money out in advance)...

The Amazing Todsky will be laughing all the way to the bank! And what if they hand him a check and it's "blank"?!

I'm telling you, I know Todsky and he is capable of great things... do not underestimate him, nor underestimate his "experiment".

Respectfully,

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 16, 2007 06:24PM)
Well, I don't know if I'd reccomend this experiment for a professional who depends on his livelihood. Me, I'm getting a little bored, taking somewhat of a sabbatical from the magic business anyway, so it might be a good time to try this. Maybe I'll just try it with birthday party shows, see what happens.
Message: Posted by: Tom Stevens (Jan 25, 2007 06:24AM)
Please let us know if you do try it.

I thought about trying this technique, allowing them to choose what the price is just to get a booking!

And then in the confirmation letter state that I welcome what they think it is worth, and that my competition are all charging $250 plus.

Unfortunately I am only too aware that many people budget $100 or less for the entertainment. So I don't feel inclined, at this point to try this technique.
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Jan 25, 2007 10:42AM)
I guess my question is,
would any other performing artist,
in any other entertainment field,
try this stunt?

I don't think so.

If we wish our audiences and clients,
to respect us as craftspersons,
and develop a respect for magic,
as either an entertainment or an art,
we cannot afford to treat it lightly ourselves.

If what we do has value (and it mostly does)
then we charge for that value.

You don't walk into K-Mart and say,
yeah, you want ten-bucks but I only got five with me.

There are other creative options to explore,
which won’t affect other performers,
if you are “getting a little bored”.

Magically,
Walt
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Jan 26, 2007 12:45AM)
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.
Message: Posted by: SoCalPro (Jan 26, 2007 12:17PM)
[quote]You don't need to trick them. You would just need to tell them, out right, what the cost of a magician is. You tell them that a bad magician gets $150, a good magicians $250 and a great magician $300 and then let them choose how much.[/quote]

What if the client LOOOOVES your show but either does not know what a performer SHOULD be paid or can only afford $150.00 as stated above?
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Jan 26, 2007 12:53PM)
[quote]
What if the client LOOOOVES your show but either does not know what a performer SHOULD be paid or can only afford $150.00 as stated above?
[/quote]

If the client Looooves you r show,
they will find a way to pay your fee,
OR they will hire a magician they do not looooove.

It is common for someone to pay more for the table centerpieces,
or flowers, or cake than they do on entertainment,
and it is up to the entertainer to change that perception and trend.

Our job is not only to “sell” our show but educate our clients.

If they can afford to rent a Ford that’s what they drive.
If they can afford to rent a Lexus that’s what they’ll drive.

AND if they see the need to rent a Lexus rather than a Ford,
that’s what they’ll agree to rent.

I doubt the local gourmet restaurant
would allow any patron to spend a TacoBell budget,
just because the patron claims to loooooove their food.

BTW, when I do book a “family style” birthday show,
my bottom rate is $475.00 plus any out-of-area travel,
for the standard half-hour performance,
and if they want what I provide they gladly pay that,
just FYI.

Another two-cents,
Walt
Message: Posted by: mdspark (Jan 28, 2007 01:46AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-26 01:45, icentertainment wrote:
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.
[/quote]

I really don't see the need to get ugly and make veiled insults. Todsky has thrown out an idea for consideration..possibly a valid approach depending on sub-market and or region...maybe a good approach in helping good organizations with little extra funding...AND not to mention a possible approach for a young but well rehearsed upstart to get his feet wet.

You opinion is welcomed but not the attitude it reflects. I think his idea may have some usefulness..although somewhat limited...depending on one's location and region and market. Sure, I can understand how a ful time pro simply could not and would not want this approach..and you know what? That is OK. It is also OK for others in different circumstances to consider.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 29, 2007 10:04AM)
There are performers out there doing this very thing for gospel shows for churches. I don't think I've read that comment yet.

They accept a "free will offering" (often collected at the show) as payment.

In some cases, they also let their customer know in advance what their normal fee is, so the customer has a range to aim for.

Sometimes they get more than their normal fee, sometimes they get less (according to one performer I know who does this with his church customers). For this one performer, it all works out in the end.

These types of performers have not gone bankrupt.

And as far as I know, the audience is not manipulated into giving more than they want to.

For this to work, it depends upon the relationship you have with your customers, and the faith you have in the situation and their generosity.

So really this is not a new idea, but a very old one. It's just being applied to a different market.

- Donald

P.S. Personally, I do not do a "free will offering" style of payment for my church shows. I request a specific fee. But it seems to work fine for some performers I know.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 29, 2007 10:29AM)
Buskers, and ministers work for donations all the time.

Donald
What was your answer "I think it is a good idea, but for other people"? Yea I'm not one of those OTHER PEOPLE either. Those OTHER PEOPLE who do magic in Churches for donations are either retired, or have a day job.

Todsky
I have liked your other ideas in the past my friend like a no props show, or ride a bike to work (in Montreal?), but on this one you will get burnt. Of course a successful producer like you, who is on his way to Broadway can afford to give it away.
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Jan 29, 2007 01:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-28 02:46, mdspark wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-01-26 01:45, icentertainment wrote:
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.
[/quote]

I really don't see the need to get ugly and make veiled insults. Todsky has thrown out an idea for consideration..possibly a valid approach depending on sub-market and or region...maybe a good approach in helping good organizations with little extra funding...AND not to mention a possible approach for a young but well rehearsed upstart to get his feet wet.

You opinion is welcomed but not the attitude it reflects. I think his idea may have some usefulness..although somewhat limited...depending on one's location and region and market. Sure, I can understand how a ful time pro simply could not and would not want this approach..and you know what? That is OK. It is also OK for others in different circumstances to consider.
[/quote]

Perhaps think about it for 30 seconds before posting
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 29, 2007 04:29PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-29 11:29, Al Angello wrote:
Buskers, and ministers work for donations all the time.

Donald
What was your answer "I think it is a good idea, but for other people"? Yea I'm not one of those OTHER PEOPLE either. Those OTHER PEOPLE who do magic in Churches for donations are either retired, or have a day job.[/quote]

Hi Al -

That's an opinion, and you're entitled to it. (BTW, [b]I[/b] never said they were retired or had another FT job. I know for a fact that there are some who do shows like these for a FT income.)

Like I said, I don't do it personally, but I know some people do it. Good for them!

For everyone who hasn't passed judgement on this idea --

Instead of saying it can't work, or doesn't work, why doesn't someone ask the [b]right[/b] people HOW they make it work? The answers are there for people who honestly want to know, and want learn from others, with an open attitude. And people who want the right answers learn how to seek out the people to give them.

If anyone wants to learn more about the power of asking, and all the nuances of that, read the Jack Canfield book, "The Aladdin Factor."

- Donald

P.S. The world is either for you or against you. Either way, you are right. :)
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Jan 29, 2007 05:33PM)
Donald,

On this occasion I have to agree with the others who think this is a really silly idea.

If he's not booking any shows, he'd be better off examining why that is before trying something like this.

If he's having such difficulty booking his show for a decent fee then one of two things must be true:

...either his marketing is awful or his show is awful
...or both.

He'd be much better off trying to fix the above.


Best,
James
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 29, 2007 06:13PM)
Don't misunderstand me.

I'm not telling him to do it, or not to do it.

All I'm saying is that it is a "possible" idea, if a person does their homework first to understand how to do this.

- Donald

P.S. I had the impression that Todd wanted to do this as a different way of charging a fee (an experiment). I didn't get the impression that he wanted to do it because he was having a difficult time booking shows, or getting customers to pay for his requested fee.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 29, 2007 07:03PM)
Todsky
You will make out lots better busking, but wait till Spring time after all you do live in Montreal. That way if you look in your hat you will know instantly if your show is any good.
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: todsky (Jan 30, 2007 03:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-26 01:45, icentertainment wrote:
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.
[/quote]

Ice, I guess you didn't understand the intention of my idea. Try reading carefully this time. And please refrain from juvenile insults.


First, a little background:
I've been performing for over 25 years, and for the past 10 years I've been doing over 200 shows each year, and I make a fine living at it. My reputation as an entertainer (mostly kids shows) in this city is very good. I am making enough money.

As some others have noted (those who actually read my previous posts), I am going through a little change in my life, kind of a sabbatical from the magic business in order to pursue some other artistic interests (writing, music, theatre.) I live alone, have a cheap rent and very few expenses, so this allows me to pursue my artistic vision wherever it takes me, without having to worry much about making lots of cash. I believe the best way to be an artist is to focus as little on the money and as much as possible on the creation. That being said, I am obviously not a businessman. Most of my success as a magician was a result simply of putting on an entertaining show, and happy customers then referred me to others.

My idea is not for making more money. My idea is subversive. This is an exercise in imagination. What if? It's an interesting premise, if you are able to think beyond the bottom line.
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Jan 30, 2007 04:04PM)
Sorry, Todsky,

I also misunderstood your original post. You posted this in "Tricky Business."

I don't think that how much you charge has any effect on one's creativity. So why not just charge a decent fee?

If you have a personal hang-up against earning money, then that is something quite different.

I don't think earning money negatively affected the Beatles' creativity for example.

Best,
James
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Jan 30, 2007 05:44PM)
This is the business section- Show business is about the bottom line----go post in the fairies section.

I read your initial post and for your benefit I will now re read it.....
here it is for everyone to re read

"Dear customer: Please pay according to what you can honestly afford, and according to how entertaining the show was. Just put the payment in a sealed envelope"

OOOOH I still think it's a stupid idea- actually even more stupid now that you got me to re read it.

juvenile insults

I'm not here to hold your hand and baby you- I will say what any professional would want to say- they just don't know how to say it.

Any pro out there who is an actual pro- (not one of the "yeah I do 98 shows a month" BS artists on here) will tell you that in the real world (not the matrix world) it doesn't work and is a sure fire way of losing income and also losing respect from your clients.

stupid is as stupid does the question is- are you going to do this method of charging
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Jan 30, 2007 06:18PM)
David,

You crack me up.

Best,
James
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 30, 2007 06:28PM)
James
This is the classic confrontation between business man, and artist. We all must be a little bit of both to make it.

David
You can't hold everything in, please tell us what you really think.

Todsky
I like your style.
HAVE FUN GUYS
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Jan 30, 2007 07:10PM)
Al,

Not sure that there is a confrontation. I think in most art forms, whether or not you make money has little to do with the artistic merit.

I don't think they sit on opposite sides of a scale and that you have to give up one to have the other.

Sure there are plenty of great artists who died poor, but there are just as many that did very well financially.

Best,
James
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 30, 2007 07:18PM)
James
I'm changing the subject here, but I herd a story once that Picasso would doodle on a restaurant napkin, sign it, and offer it to the restaurant manager as payment for dinner.
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jan 30, 2007 07:21PM)
I don’t guess you all would like the idea of billing the client later either. :)

I do know a couple of local magicians that work churches strictly for an offering. They do quite well. But outside that market, no I don’t think it’s a good idea.

Tom
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Jan 30, 2007 07:28PM)
I heard that Van Gogh and Andy Warhol did the same.
Picasso and Warhol of course died very wealthy.
Van Gogh did not.

Best,
James
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Jan 30, 2007 07:56PM)
Accepting a love offering from a church or similar group is normal. Drawing tips from coffee houses and artistic gatherings is acceptable. If a performer is not concerned with how much he or she draws weekly, then who am I to judge how they do it.

But from a business perspective...and frankly it's either a business or a hobby since neither Picasso nor Warhol would have survived long if they'd handled their artwork as a hobby...it makes little sense to me personally. Even "successful" buskers, who rely primarily on tips, have a business-sensible structure in place for maximizing their income.

Performing with a "pay me what you felt it was worth" arrangement makes as much sense to me as a 100% money-back satisfaction guarantee on your show. I could never do it. I respect your artistic devotion highly Todd...but I don't see this idea catching on. Best to ya!
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 30, 2007 08:35PM)
For a discussion on artistic vs. getting money, see this (old) thread:

[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=75604&forum=5]Cafe thread titled... Fee for strolling magic at private parties?[/url]

This thread took a turn towards that topic of discussion.

I suggested in a post on that thread, that being an artist doesn't mean you need to forgo your fee. I suggested giving a part of your salary away to charities, etc.

Check it out, Todd. It might give you some of the food for thought you are seeking.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 30, 2007 09:40PM)
Todsky
The greatest thing about being self employed, is you don't have to take advise from anyone. It's your life, and you can go down with your ship, if that's what you so desire.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Jan 30, 2007 11:29PM)
There is a time and place for everything.

I do arty magic tricks for myself- I think of hair brained methods and effects---BUT when it comes to business- it is a different game.

The trick is knowing when to stop being the artist and become the business man.

I would suggest that whenever someones wants your services - switch onto business mode.

At home and to your magic buddies do your arty stuff.

You can be both- They just don't always go well togeather.
Message: Posted by: Habu (Jan 30, 2007 11:50PM)
I'm getting back into the business after a long hiatus...20 years, so my business savvy wrt magic is dated. In fact I'm not even sure how much to charge for children's parties and for Fund Raising events.

That being said, back then there was always the problem of "do I ask for money up front, prior to arriving, or go up to the hostess after the presentation and find a pleasant way to ask for your money. -- I'll search for a thread on those topics later --

As for this concept, I could see someone using this technique for extra money on top of a fee paid by a bar or restaurant.

If you do it I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with it.
Rick Jackson
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Jan 31, 2007 03:03AM)
Arrange your payment at the time of booking