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Topic: Poker Protection - Cheating by Steve Forte
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 16, 2007 06:20PM)
Checked it out, looks like a great book.

Poker Protection - Cheating ... and the World of Poker


Poker Protection - Cheating ... and the World of Poker, is the first modern treatment of cheating and its impact on the game. Based on decades of extensive research, the study objectively looks at the dangers posed by professional and amateur cheaters in all forms of poker: casino game, private/home game, online poker, and tournament play.


LIMITED FIRST EDITION - Available Now! (January 2007)

Hardbound with sewn signatures
Printed on acid-free quality paper
Four-color laminated front and back jacket
Over 380 pages with 228 black & white photos
Photos by Award Winning photographer Bill Taylor
Comprehensive Glossary, Bibliography, and Index
Cost: $49.99

http://www.casinogameprotection.com/book2.html
Message: Posted by: daniel1113 (Jan 16, 2007 09:09PM)
This looks like a great book from Steve Forte, especially for anyone that doesn't want to spend $200 on his Casino Game Protection book for the poker related information. I'd love to read a few reviews if anyone decides to purchase this book, as I am curious how it relates to his other material.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 16, 2007 09:21PM)
I'm ordering a copy tomorrow...will let you know how it compares to the Casino Game Protection Book. I hope it is not like other sequels where there is a lot of repetition with little new substance....

I'll let you know....I want it for my library anyway.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 17, 2007 03:05AM)
Same will order ASAP, just need to find out international shipping fee.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jan 17, 2007 03:15AM)
I'll be getting it too.

Doc
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 17, 2007 08:44AM)
Like the old saying says "a little knowledge is dangerous"....some people feel that because they read a book, that they feel more secure and protected.

These people who feel protected and think that "they know" are actually more exposed, than those who are ignorant because they can be over-confident.

It is very rare for books to talk about the psychology of hustling which carries even known moves (seconds, bottoms, stacks, false shuffles, marked cards, etc.) to the next level of deception.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jan 17, 2007 10:10AM)
Steve is one of my teachers and for the record he's true to the game as well.


Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 17, 2007 11:06AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-17 09:44, Expertmagician wrote:
Like the old saying says "a little knowledge is dangerous"....some people feel that because they read a book, that they feel more secure and protected.

These people who feel protected and think that "they know" are actually more exposed, than those who are ignorant because they can be over-confident.

It is very rare for books to talk about the psychology of hustling which carries even known moves (seconds, bottoms, stacks, false shuffles, marked cards, etc.) to the next level of deception.
[/quote]True say
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Jan 17, 2007 02:31PM)
I proofed 2 early drafts of the book for Steve.

Suffice to say, it's great. Loaded with information and he tips a few things that have not been in print before, as well as providing better coverage for a few items that have been discussed previously, just not very thoroughly.

Jason
Message: Posted by: ASW (Jan 17, 2007 04:22PM)
If you're thinking about jagging a copy, don't wait: 40% of stock has sold in the first 5 days...
Message: Posted by: daniel1113 (Jan 17, 2007 04:42PM)
Wow. It looks like I should probably hurry and make a decision. The question now is if I should purchase Poker Protection, Casino Game Protection, or both? Hmm...
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 17, 2007 05:32PM)
Parently Casino one soon will be out of stock.
Message: Posted by: PapaG (Jan 18, 2007 07:03PM)
Arrived today. An absolute must-have.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 18, 2007 09:46PM)
Which arrived....Poker or Casino ? or both ?
Message: Posted by: PapaG (Jan 19, 2007 05:42AM)
Poker Protection.
Message: Posted by: daniel1113 (Jan 19, 2007 05:25PM)
I couldn't resist any longer... I bought both books. I can't wait to read them.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Jan 19, 2007 06:27PM)
Daniel,

Are you by any chance in the ANG at Greeley?

Just curious,

Jason

PS: Both books are excellent, and will be collector's items in the very near future.
Message: Posted by: daniel1113 (Jan 19, 2007 07:12PM)
Nope, I'm not in the ANG (Air National Guard?).
Message: Posted by: sibbie (Jan 19, 2007 07:30PM)
Pavloter - Order from Meir Yedid and international shipping is free.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 19, 2007 11:39PM)
Sounds like a good deal...especialy for a book....and Meir is a great guy !
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 20, 2007 05:29AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-19 20:30, sibbie wrote:
Pavloter - Order from Meir Yedid and international shipping is free.
[/quote]It's not, I already ordered. It is free only if you buy items for $300, otherwise it is %20 add.
Message: Posted by: sibbie (Jan 20, 2007 07:37AM)
My fault. I was going by the outer advertising; not the detail page. Apologies for the mispost.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 20, 2007 08:25AM)
Oh well.....20% is not bad for a heavy book .... and Meir is still a great guy ... regardless of the 20% :)
Message: Posted by: sibbie (Jan 20, 2007 11:15AM)
Anyone know how many of the signed books were put out?
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 20, 2007 11:21AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-20 09:25, Expertmagician wrote:
Oh well.....20% is not bad for a heavy book .... and Meir is still a great guy ... regardless of the 20% :)
[/quote]Yea true, but then with Casino one I needed to buy another items to get 300$, as don't really want to pay only 40$ for shipping, you know I mean. But otherwise it is pretty cheap.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 20, 2007 06:23PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-20 12:15, sibbie wrote:
Anyone know how many of the signed books were put out?
[/quote]

No...but, considering the supply and publicity, I suspect the unsigned books may be worth more than the signed one's :)
Message: Posted by: papermechanic (Jan 22, 2007 08:51AM)
My copy came in on saturday and I had a brief opportunity to skim through the book. its nice to have a consolidated informative source like this that contains information about the many facets of cheating at the card table. I havent read his casino cheating book, so I am unable to comment about how much the material differs in each book. but in my opinion $50 is a great deal for this book and anyone still considering picking it up should definitely do so.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 22, 2007 11:48AM)
I can see this book to getting sold out soon, because of the price and Steve's reputation. Every one who couldn't afford Casino one will want to get this one.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 22, 2007 01:35PM)
Everyone here who has made money off one of these casino protection books I would like a show of hands. please type 1,000 if you have made money cheating at cards or dice from some of these books.
thanks Memphis Jay
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 22, 2007 07:44PM)
Very funny....they are not teaching books. So, while experienced people will pick up many subtleties and get ideas to refine their technique....beginners will have a hard time learning the sleights.

And shame shame to those to admit cheating :)

In addition, even though I don't know Steve well....I don't think that he would want to promote card cheating considering that he works for the casinos. Unless he wants some people to try the methods, so he can catch them and his business of "casino protection" will improve :)

When I say they are not teaching books...what I mean is that....while they expose a cheating method, they to not teach technique.

let's take a second deal for example.....

1) Books may show photos of a second deal (ie. second card being dealt). They do not discuss hand positions, timing, misdirection, hand action/movement, etc. etc.)
2) Video may be better becaus they show the move in action...but, many do not teach the technique to master the move.
3) On the other hand, some magic videos and books go into great detail on such sleights which are dual purpose for magic and gambling. Of course, we prefer that the moves be used for entertainment vs. cheating.

What they do "teach" or show, is the simple existance of such a move or technique. Sometimes they even show how to detect the cheating technique...but, they intentionally leave out details to truely make the sleight/method truely deceptive.

I am not saying that I don't enjoy these books or videos...I do.....But, while I can hope for new material or insight....I usually find that 90% is a rehash of existing published information. But, I am happy with that 10%
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 23, 2007 01:07PM)
I believe that the various book and video "gambling expose" sellers can work under fire (ie. I believe that they can "do")..... But, they are either too nervous or they believe it is wrong (which is likely) or the find that they can make more money (and safer money) consulting and writing books or videos :)

I do sometimes get tired or seeing the same moves and/or gaffs written or shown from supposedly "new" books. That is why I go by the 10% figure...If I learn 10% from a book or video I am happy. Sometimes even a single idea can make the information worthwhile....But, to each his own...and everyone has their own value system...far be it from me to judge :)
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 23, 2007 02:04PM)
Hey...someone removed a couple of replies (Guess the Café g-ds)...now my post above may be taken out of context....

In general, I was commenting on someone saying that book writers and/or video authors can't "do" so they "teach"....I was pointing out my point of view above.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 23, 2007 05:27PM)
Hey they removed my replies. they are probaly friends of steve's. lol. go figure!
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 23, 2007 05:31PM)
By them deleting those posts it throws everything out of whack! Me personally I feel like a guy helping the casino is like a little guy being in a fight with a big guy and me handing the big guy a baseball bat! Casinos are crooks, so why should anybody want to help those crooks beat the little guy? doesn't make sense to me. Players are for the underdog. A player would help the little guys take down the casino!
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 23, 2007 07:20PM)
Casinos are like smoking.....if people choose to partake and know the risks against them....se la vee :)
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 23, 2007 11:01PM)
I'm a bit at a loss with you guys saying posts were removed but none the less I want to make a quick comment on the book, which I've read most off. Steve Forte is w/out a doubt an expert on the subject of cheats. While cheating at poker is not like it was years ago there is a great interest in it and he took the 44 pages from his major work and expanded upon it to over 300 pages. It is very well written and complete and is pretty much a text book. Forte isn't accusing, in fact he makes this very clear, the casinos of cheating and he is very clear in not wanting fingers pointed at cheats from years past who may be active in playing legit poker.

Memph, carry on with whatever you do but to call the casinos crooks isn't accurate. They don't have to cheat, odds are in their favor and this is information available to all, poker they make a percentage (why many play home games). Someone who is a cheat is a crook but don't confuse advantage play with cheating (card counting isn't cheating).
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 23, 2007 11:31PM)
I just want to make it clear, I never called casinos crooked...modern day casinos don't have to cheat....the odds are stacked in their favor...I heard stories about the early days of Vegas...but, that was many, many years ago and I don't know if they are true....but, the "old timer" I heard it from was credible.

Bottom line is that casinos have been ligit for years...especially today.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 24, 2007 02:35AM)
In my opinion anyone who says casinos don't cheat is wrong. The odds are stacked in the casinos favor. The casino is a carnival game like when you go to the carnival and you shoot pool and try to win a prize and your stick is so crooked and the table is probaly not level. And do the gaming commissions have experts? lol. It amazes me how people call 3cm and 3sg a scam and a ripoff but the casino has the odds on their favor. Well 3cm and 3sg workers have the odds on their side also and those odds are the hand is quicker than the eye! Talk about a double standard, Geesh!!!!!!!!!! Cigarette and Liquor Sellers don't have to be illegal to get money but they have killed millions and millions of people whereas heroin and cocaine dealers have killed millions and millions but theirs are illegal. Both are wrong. I guess the 3cm and 3sg workers don't have enough money to pay the states cause if you pay a state enough money they will let you do anything! Thus Cigarettes, Liquor, and Casino Gambling. So what is the difference in a casino gaming expert, a Tobacco lobbyist or a Liquor lobbyist? don't they all support hurting people?
Message: Posted by: TheCount (Jan 24, 2007 03:13AM)
Would you categorize lotteries the same as casinos? How about arcades? On a grand scale, are they really so different?

I think you'll find the reason why casinos aren't considered to be cheating is that they are honest about what they are doing, while cheaters typically are not.

You can argue one way or another whether you think that is right or not, there are, after all, many people who consider gambling immoral, but fundamentally the difference is openess about what is being done.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 24, 2007 07:55AM)
Since we are talking definitions...I'll tell you my perception.

Gambling (ie. casinos) have the odds stacked against you by various percentages (most games are 1% - 15% for table games depennding upon what you play and what you bet. Other games, like slots can have as much as 18%+ higher against you. That is why some bets are called "sucker" bets.

Bottom line is that you stand a chance of winning....if you are lucky enough to beat the odds.

Conversly, a cheat does not give you any chance to win. an extream case is 3-card monte. I would not call that gambling...it is cheating because you have no chance of winning unless the dealer/team makes a mistake.

Another example....lets say you are "cheating" and stack the deck or do bottom dealing or use a marked deck...sure, the player can get lucky and get a better hand than what you "controlled". But, you have reduced the players odds of winning to 1-5% (95+% chance against him) which is not reasonable from the players point of view (since he thinks he is getting a "fair chance" :)

Bottom line: I call cheating something where you stand virtually no chance to win AND of course casinos are legal and cheating is not. :)

So I guess we are talking semantics...

So here's to skewing the odds :bubbly: ... at least when we do magic and gambling expose routines.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 24, 2007 09:25AM)
I told a story once before how my friend went to new york he was a pimp there and he use to turn the red card over on monte players. A person who says a person has no chance to win at 3cm doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't see how in the world a person can call a 3cm worker a cheater but a casino honest! If you informed people about casinos I bet the number of people who frequent casinos would drop dramatically. They don't know its a scam. They really think they have a chance of winning at the casino.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 24, 2007 09:30AM)
Count I use to run a gambling game in jail. its called the dog track and I don't know if you are use to it or not. But I made plenty of money at this game. One thing I knew about the dog track was that if 10 people played maybe 1 would win but 9 were gonna lose. I was confident with this and I knew the game was a racket! It was a racket because anyway it went I won! Of course lotteries are a scam, and insurance companies also. In my opinion. A casino is a cash cow and so if a lottery. When have you heard of a casino losing money or a lottery losing money? It aint gonna happen! YOu put those cards in the machine and they let you win but they know who you r. They know you are a gambling addict and even if they let you win you gonna gamble it back. that's why when people win big they give you a room etc so you will gamble the money back!
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 24, 2007 11:42AM)
The key word is concealment.

In a casino or lottery nothing is concealed from the player. It's all there in black and white for those who bother to look. As a matter of fact most states and provinces have laws that obligate every twist of the odds to be published and available for the player to read on demand.

If you're being hustled, methods are concealed, and intentions are purposfully misrepresented.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 24, 2007 12:28PM)
Memph it sounds like you are describing something simular to The Anchor and the Crown. If you want to toss the monte etc as a straight up hustle, which I am starting to doubt you do considering your views, then more power to you. To consider a casino, because they have the edge, the same as a monte tosser (who will never lose if they don't want to) is not be honest with ones self. Casinos exist the same as other companies, to generate an income. With gambling there exist the opportunity to win, every day people win thousands of dollars. Over the long haul and over the shere odds of numbers they make money. The guy running the monte or other street hustles doesn't give the opportunity to win, they only give the impression that such an event could occur...and that is when the trap is set. If you feel the need to justify your criminality then do so, just don't expect everyone to be a mark.
Message: Posted by: daniel1113 (Jan 24, 2007 01:29PM)
Well, my copies of Poker Protection and Casino Game Protection both arrived today, and I am quite impressed. Both books are beautiful, and after a quick glance, appear to contain a lot of great information. My only complaint was the paper stock used, as the pages look/feel as though they were printed using a laser printer (albeit a high quality laser printer). I would have preferred a nice glossy "textbook" paper.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 24, 2007 05:14PM)
Mine one arived as well. Looks great.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 24, 2007 06:07PM)
Vernon spent his life searching out hustlers who would discuss cards with him, and when he found them he treated them with non-judgemental respect.

Of course the hustlers repayed Vernon with the exact same kind of respect.

I wonder if there's anything in that WE could use in 2007?
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 24, 2007 06:43PM)
Vernon was a great magician and facinating man. Remember one thing Silverking, Vernon didn't hesitate to lie to the hustlers to get access to their info, not real respectful. His own articles for Genii and the books about Vernon reflect how he presented Charlie Miller as a dice man so they wouldn't talk cards with him and how he told Kennedy that he was a hustler off of the trans Atlantic ships.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Jan 24, 2007 07:07PM)
By the way fellas to read about second opion of Vernon, the one which was hidden from magicians you shoudl read Phantom at the Card Table.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 24, 2007 07:15PM)
Santa I make my money in the casino. you should read some of the statistics about how many people have lost their houses etc to gambling. How many familes have been destroyed by gambling. The lure of winning? lol
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 24, 2007 08:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-24 20:07, Pavloter wrote:
By the way fellas to read about second opion of Vernon, the one which was hidden from magicians you shoudl read Phantom at the Card Table.
[/quote]
It's a great read, but it's not the book to go to when you want accurate information on Vernon.

I'm not even sure it's the right book to go to for information about Walter Scott. Busby's "The Secret of the Palmettos" tells yet a different story of the entire Scott affair!

Just proves you need more than a single book on any given topic to get the whole story.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 24, 2007 08:38PM)
I've not read the Phantom book....need to. Memph, I don't disagree with you. Folks have lost everything to gambling and it is a sad thing. I would also think it is better they lose their pocket money to a hustler than everything to Bally's. I'm in an odd position where I don't really gamble except for fun but I'm surrounded by casinos...can walk to the front of my property and see two of them.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 24, 2007 09:03PM)
The really sad thing was that the "stupid card counters" in the 1980s had a BIG MOUTH and publicised how they could beat the game.

Then the casinos started getting smart and changed the game, so the edge a card counter can get today makes it not even worthwhile playing.

I know, I used to be one of those undercover card counters in the early 1980s and was annoyed every time I saw someone like Ken Uston making a fuss and some other idiots.

Oh well, now I just play for fun...card counting just reduces the house cut to break even...I liked it better when I had an edge....time moves on ...
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 24, 2007 10:17PM)
You are absolutely right. I love stumbling into a one deck game of Black Jack. It is a beautiful thing, they have 'em in Carson City at the Nugget.
Message: Posted by: ronfour (Jan 24, 2007 11:09PM)
Memph,

Can you tell us about how you are able to beat the casino?
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 25, 2007 08:38AM)
Who R U talking to MagicSanta or me ?

As far as I am concerned...I would not use the phrase "beat the casino". I was a computer science major and spent my last 2 years in college working on a blackjack card counting system.....it used my own formulas and calculations....I got the original idea from Beat the dealer and enhanced the concepts into using what is known as a "multi-level count" today. Except I developed my own.

I went to Vegas for 1 week when I was 21 years old and played my system. The computer told me that I was supposed to have a 3% edge over the house vs. then having an edge over me.

When I did the math, I found out that in the real world, I was winning about a 6% edge over the house. (I check and re-checked...yet the computer only said my edge should be 3%....Guess I got lucky.

Then as the casinos changed their rules and shuffling proceedures I kept changing my software. Until now, it is about a 50-50 (breakeven) game with card counting. Sure I may get lucky and win...But, statistically I don't have an edge and I don't gamble unless I have the edge :)

Gambling is not fun to me, it is a business :) ... no edge....no play :)

So that is the short version of my story...but, it was fun while it lasted !
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 25, 2007 09:39AM)
Well ronfour I am a janitor in the casino.
Message: Posted by: memph33777 (Jan 25, 2007 09:40AM)
My job is a dirty job but somebody has to do it!
Message: Posted by: ronfour (Jan 25, 2007 09:51AM)
Memph,

I know a guy who does the same thing.


expertmagician,

Is that your website that sells cards & stuff?
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 25, 2007 02:01PM)
What web site :)
No advertising here :)
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 25, 2007 02:09PM)
Hey memph33777,

While you are cleaning the roulette wheel, why don't you tilt it ?
Message: Posted by: silverking (Mar 22, 2007 12:36PM)
Just took delivery of my copy of the Forte poker book, and having browsed through it prior to a full read I'm amazed that there's any copies of this book left for sale at all.

Are folks just not talking about it to keep it to themselves, or does the book just contain too much information to get a handle on?

The review in Genii declared the Forte book as the worthy successor to Erdnase's "Expert" which at the time I read the review I thought was a bit of an overstatement.
Having now seen the book, I realize that it's actually an insightful representation of the Forte book.

If you don't have this, and you post here often, dig up the scratch and get it. I can see a few years down the road where there will be folks who have access to this book, and folks that don't...........those that don't will be at a disadvantage.

For me, Forte's poker book cements him into the position as the guy who knows more than anybody else, and knows how to communicate that information to others who are interested in a way that makes it not only enjoyable to read, but almost overwhelmingly comprehensive.

(i got the Forte poker book and the Conjuring Arts mini "bible" edition of "Expert at the Card Table" in the post on the same day..........it was one of those real good mailbox days if that makes sense to anybody)
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Mar 22, 2007 01:08PM)
Silverking,

My wife just complained this morning about all the books I'm getting in the mail. And now it seems I'm gonna have to order two more. So I don't know whether to thank you or curse you.

On the other hand, it's only money.

Gruss,
Jeff
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 22, 2007 01:21PM)
Thanks Silver I ain't got it yet. I will do so this instant while I still have it in mind. I make notes of these things "Must get that!" them somethings happens and I forget until someone mentions it again.

Do I have to order it from the USA. Does any one know if I can get it from somewhere in England? It's no big thing but it will arrive quicker for me if I can.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Mar 22, 2007 01:30PM)
Tommy, I don't know how things are in the UK, but in Germany I get things from the States in a week to 10 days--unless it's in a warehouse somewhere on the outskirts of the town where I live. Which this book wouldn't be. So this book would almost certainly arrive more quickly if you order it directly from Forte's website. Also, I don't know how things are in the UK, but here I would pay MORE than the price of the book + shipping + customs. In other words, order it now and from the States.

As for myself, I'll have to wait 20 minutes before I order. I've got to watch a TV show with my family. Patriarchal responsibility and all.

Oh, and Silverking: are you going to write a review of the Erdnase Bible?

Gruss,
Jeff
Message: Posted by: silverking (Mar 22, 2007 10:59PM)
I had some thoughts on the 'Mini-Erdnase' bible in the book review forum.

I'd love to know what others are thinking about the Forte book though, it's an over-the-top book in terms of what it teaches and how it's taught.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 22, 2007 11:09PM)
Forte was meeting demand by expanding on the poker cheat section of his major work. He makes it clear that he would be covering areas that are really no longer an issue in poker and that for the most part he doesn't think it is an issue at all. I feel it is as over the top as it has to be to keep from being dry.
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Mar 23, 2007 01:09AM)
Forte's book kicks ass and theres a lot in there that still applies to most CASINO poker rooms and can still become an issue...
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Mar 23, 2007 08:12AM)
Funny, but if you read the book....the most powerful weapon in poker is collusion/partnerships. Sure sleight of hand and gaffs enhance that. But, collusion is the killer.

I bet that is one reason why they show hole cards on the world series of poker....that way they can see if people fold kings against a set of aces on the 1st two cards (ie. play high hand). Of course, more sophisticated techniques are available....but, exposing cards to the camera also tend to reduce the risk of SOME sorts of collusion. (Steve tends to agree because he mentioned this too)

Personally, I like sleight of hand, marked cards, strippers, etc. They are more interesting than simply signaling a partner :) Of course, these techniques can increase a partnership edge :) They also make for more interesting "gambling expose" routines ;)
Message: Posted by: silverking (Mar 23, 2007 11:08AM)
I gotta say that if you're into this kind of stuff, Forte's book reads like a dang Robert Ludlum novel.
I can't put it down!

There's a lot to be said for books that are 'complete' in terms of covering their topic.
Many magic books are far from complete, if that's even possible.

I noticed that Forte's poker book is bound, covered, and structured like a text book. It really is a university level education in poker protection.

I've got 3 shelves of Mason Malmuth, Sklansky, Ray Zee, and other 2+2 books on poker. It's Forte's book that gives an opportunity to have access to a complete run down on poker.
That run down is something that, until you actually see Forte's book, you may not even realize that you're missing.
Message: Posted by: Yiannis (Mar 23, 2007 01:29PM)
Tommy,

you can get it here, http://alakazam.co.uk/acatalog/Books_23.html
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 23, 2007 02:44PM)
WOW my old pal Yiannis how you doing son your looking well. Thanks for the tip.

Tommy
Message: Posted by: Yiannis (Mar 27, 2007 10:04AM)
Hi Tommy!

How are you old chap? (and wise as well ;))
I've been away for a while, taking some time off from magic/gambling.
I'll see you around from now on :)

Take care.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 28, 2007 12:57AM)
Time off gambling!


http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/guysanddolls/guysanddolls.htm

I bet! :)
Message: Posted by: onbekende020 (Dec 10, 2007 06:16PM)
Ive order the book a couple of weeks ago, and will be gettin it in a week or two...

Could somebody tell me what I can expect of the book? I know of the content, but for example: in what way are the sleight/moves/techniques discussed? Maybe a small review of the book?

No matter what, I know the book is gonna blow my mind!

USM
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Dec 10, 2007 11:29PM)
If you ordered it....why not wait to be surprised :)

I personally found it an interesting read and I enjoyed both of his recent gambling books and recommend them....but, bear in mind, it is an expose' book and not a "how to book", so if you expect to learn technique (ie. how to do a bottom deal or second deal....then you will not find it in this book). However, it will expose various techniques and strategies which will help you "DETECT" cheating.

On the other hand, if you are already knowledgeable with gambling moves, you can "read between the lines" and gain additional insight with regard to cheating techniques.
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (Dec 10, 2007 11:52PM)
This book, much like Mr. Forte, is overrated.

And, by overrated I obviously mean fan-friggen-tastic.

I'm not sure I agree with Mr. Swain's comments that it is a replacement (I may be remembering that incorrectly) or superseads it though- it seems to have a TOTALLY different objective.

Erdnase's book was designed to teach you how to use the weapons of a sharp- step by step instructions so that YOU can learn them. Mr. Forte's book is designed so that, hopefully, you can detect them. It won't teach you how to do them. But, if you already know how then his book will teach you how to USE them (and, detect them).

If you like this type of stuff, this is one of the best books you'll ever read.

But, don't buy it. It's overrated...
Ben
Message: Posted by: matu (Dec 11, 2007 12:22AM)
Jim Swain made a 4 pages review in the February issue of Genii with plenty of pictures (in case you are a genii subscriber). The book is a great read, very hard to put down... which is good because I feel like I'll have to read it over and over :)
Be patient, Christmas is right around the corner!
Message: Posted by: onbekende020 (Dec 11, 2007 08:13AM)
Thanks guys! Just got the email: my book is coming this week....

I allready knew it wasent goin to be a how-to-book, luckelly there are other resources for that! Like ya'll said, if you can "read between the lines" you can gain additional insight with regard to cheating techniques...

Thanks again,

USM