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Topic: Contact info for Andy Amyx? Dove colors?
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Jan 22, 2007 06:32PM)
Does anyone have the contact info for Andy Amyx? The post on coloring doves says his colors are the best, but the link no longer works. Does anyone have current contact info or know of another good source to buy coloring for doves?
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Jan 22, 2007 06:55PM)

I just went to his site and found his personal email.. Try andy@andyamyx.com

Edit: I also responded to your other question in the other thread concerning the link..

Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Jan 22, 2007 07:18PM)
Andy is also a member here at the Café. You could send him a PM
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Jan 23, 2007 05:51AM)
Thanks guys,
With your help I've been able to find Andy’s web site and I see his pro dove colors for sale. Now I'd like to find out if he can custom mix more than the 5 basic colors he lists. I would really like bright pink and a deep purple. I'll let you know what I find out after contacting Andy himself!
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Jan 23, 2007 02:55PM)
Glad to help, Chris!

And that is a very interesting question. I'd like to know the answer as well. Let us know.

Message: Posted by: sperris (Jan 26, 2007 01:54PM)
Hey Guys,

Andy can get you custom colors, all mine are custom ones I special order through him. You just need to call or email and ask. He's a very helpful and knowledgable guy.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Jan 27, 2007 08:34AM)
Thanks Sperris,
I E-Mailed Andy almost a week ago, but have yet to hear back from him. I hope he's busy with shows or perhaps he doesn't think I'm serious and ready to order. I'm hoping to color my 2 birds soon to add an extra touch to the show, and I'm getting excited about adding more birds to do more of a bird act. I only perform children's shows so I've never had the market for a bird act.

Perhaps it would open more doors if I did have such an act and added with some other strong magic and maybe a mentalism effect, I could offer a complete adult show as well. At the very least, a 10-minute dove act could be added into my children's show, especially in the larger family corporate events and banquet hall parties where I'm hired for the kids but there are tons of adults.

I'm hoping Andy can make custom bright pink and vivid purple for my doves. Perhaps I can try calling him this morning, and hope to catch him before he goes out? I'll let you know how I make out.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Jan 27, 2007 09:47AM)
OK Guys,

I phoned Andy directly this morning and he was very helpful. He does have a fluorescent Pink dove coloring in stock, and normally has a vibrant Purple in stock for his doves. He says he might be out of purple in which case I asked to have the bright Yellow substituted. Than I'd order the Purple when it's back in stock, hopefully I'll be getting more doves by then. I'll post a new post for dove advice on adding another pair to an existing cage of a pair.

I'm glad I went right to the source. I should've called a week ago instead of E-Mailing. He was very helpful on the phone, and I look forward to watching his dove DVD and getting the 2 colors. I'm really getting excited about improving the dove portion of my show. I'll post a new post about advise on new routines, and I'll keep you all current when I get in the order and go from there.
Message: Posted by: sperris (Jan 27, 2007 06:42PM)
Hi Christopher, Pink is ok, I use pink myself, but I have found the more crazy you get with colors sometimes it may work against you. There are many times where I am approached by laypeople in regards to the colors of the birds. As I'm sure many of us have. The first thing they ask is if they're dyed or if they're painted. Sounds dumb, but its true.

I have always felt that the more I guess "un-natural" the color for a bird like a dove the more worried they become about the bird. I have seen it where a magician has tried to almost tie-dye a dove by attempting to color various portions of the dove and it looks terrible. I'm not saying Purple won't look good or is a bad idea, I know Andy uses purple now and has sent me a sample of it and it looks beautiful. I'd use it but I keep in mind these worries I have about laypeople turning against you because they don't know the safety and care I take in coloring my birds.

Just as a general cautionary message not just to you but to anyone looking to color birds, having colored birds is a novelty that I think can in SOME situations look nice but in no way makes for a better bird act in my opinion. I believe it is a false sense of accomplishment to some magicians, I'm not directing this to Christopher or to anyone in particular, just a generalization I've come to conclude in my own opinion as a person who works with colored birds myself. Not to mention it is a pain to keep up with. Good luck with the color though, Andy is a great guy and his coloring is the best!
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 28, 2007 08:48AM)
That sounds like signs of professional maturity! Are magicians allowed to do that? LOL

Actually I think it is very sound advice. Unless coloring is an ABSOLUTELY essential part of the act, it becomes a problem with some in the audience. That is a risk not always worth taking.

Remember that the witch burnings in Salem had nothing to do with facts. It was the reaction to what people believed. As magicians we certainly cannot fault them for that. We are there specifically to make them ignore the facts. If we are good, it works!

Colored birds can be beautiful and I don't think it hurts them. But if it hurts the audience's opinion of me, I can't afford it.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: 1906Alpha1906 (Jan 28, 2007 09:47AM)
Very Good Follow-up Bob.... I have had the same type reactions on some shows. Only one of my doves is colored, and its part of an effect in my dove act, and is near the end of the performance. It's pretty much for a "Shock Effect" after I have produced "x' number of normal white doves.

People have great reactions to it, but afterwards there is always one or two that will ask first "Is that bird real?" and the next question is "Does that bother the dove and how did you do it?". Not that this is a problem, but those one or two wouldn't have asked if they weren't concerned. And You NEVER know who you are talking to either. They could be a big promoter/consultant or even a member of PETA (which has happened from personal experience).

So, why invite the questions if you don't have to? Although in other magicians acts, if all the doves are colored, then there really is not concern to that extent because they are all obviously taken care of and the "Shock effect" is not as strong. I find it only brings a lot of questions if they see all white doves and then suddenly there is a different color, this has now triggered the thought process... Anyhow...
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Jan 28, 2007 05:40PM)
Just something to think about if, or even if your doves are not colored:

If you have someone introduce you, and you are going to do your bird act, I think they should mention that all the animals in the show are taken care of and not hurt in any way. I understand this could ruin the suspense of what type of magic will be performed in some cases, but I think that would leave the audience members a little more comfortable.

Message: Posted by: 1906Alpha1906 (Jan 28, 2007 05:45PM)
Hi Vinnie,
Not to disagree with you on this one, but, yes, it would ruin the "suspense", but most of all, it would raise question as to why that statement had to be made in the first place. Less information is more in this case. Most of the time this never happens with colored doves. Its few are far between, but there is no reason to announce that there is no harm done, because now people are looking at other things to get worried about besides the coloring...
Message: Posted by: magic mike (Jan 28, 2007 05:49PM)
The same announcement could be made just after the bird act by the M.C. or whomever.
This way the surprise would not be compromised.
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Jan 28, 2007 06:26PM)
I agree with Alpha. First the surprise could be reduced. It's kind of like when a magician says "I have an ordinary deck of cards" If they were ordinary, why would he have to make that announcement. I think the audience reaction to that is "yeah, right" and it would be the same reaction to the announcement about the safety of the birds.

Mike, while making the announcement after the act would not jeopardize the surprise factor, it would still raise the question by the audience as to why the announcement had to be made. Besides, anyone who was questioning the safety of the birds wouldn't change their mind simply because the MC, who's affilitated with the show, said they were not harmed.

The best approach, in my opinion is to just not say anything about it and perform your act in a manner that leaves no doubt as to the safety of the birds. It's not the color but the handling and visable treatment that leaves a lasting impression.
Message: Posted by: 1906Alpha1906 (Jan 28, 2007 07:26PM)
Ditto Dave!
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Jan 29, 2007 06:37AM)
Without a silent dove act I will have plenty of time to talk with the audience during the show. The biggest question I usually get is are they real? This might increase with the colored doves. I used to say the first dove was a robot, and proceeded to do the head twisting then vanish. Always had many favorable comments on the strong magic of the effect, but a few thought is was not good at a kids show. I've since taken it out and haven't used it for years.

I realize that there continues to be a big controversy over colored vs. white doves. I really think it's an artist's creative choice. I will never be able to please everyone so I have to go with what I think is strongest and most pleasing. I soon want to add more doves than the 2 I have now, so I might leave some white and color the others. Andy Amyx was very helpful with me this weekend, and hopefully my order of his pro colors and his DVD will arrive soon. It sounds easy enough to wash the dove then spray on the color. I'm going to get a carboard box for each to dry in (so that they don't mix their colors if rubbing together) and buy a heat lamp to keep them warm while drying. Andy says that the colors I've chosen will not rub off. I think it will be great for me to try and if I don't like the effect or don't get strong support from my audiences, I can always let the color grow out and go back to all white. With my audiences though I don't think it will be a problem. I did color one of my doves blue when I was a teen, and that was really well received. I turned a blue silk I dyed into the dove and it looked great. I did have trouble getting the food coloring to stick, and since learned that one needs to wash the dove first. That should make all the difference. The natural oils come back in a day or two. If I can find good vitamins, that will help to keep the feathers with a nice sheeen. Some say a tiny spray of water sprayed on the doves before the show makes them look a little more glossy.

All in all, I think I have to try the colored doves and see how it goes and the reactions I get. If I handle the doves well and show a loving attitude, my audience should feel comfortable too. I'll never know till I try, and would regret it if I didn't try somenting I thought would be good out of fear. I'm confident all will go well. I'll keep you all posted on the process and hopefully get a few pics up too.
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Jan 29, 2007 12:13PM)
On 2007-01-28 19:26, Dave Scribner wrote:
... It's not the color but the handling and visable treatment that leaves a lasting impression.

How right you are Dave! And you too Tom! =] LOL..
I agree with you guys about my statement..

And Chris, do let us know about your progress with the coloring, and pics would be great!

Have a good one,
Message: Posted by: haywire (Feb 1, 2007 01:31PM)
I was torn on coloring doves when I started but now I find it cool, but agree with Sperris that its difficult to keep up with. I met Dan briefly at worlds greatest magic show when I was working on a video project in vegas. I have to say his act was the very best dove act I have seen live.

Dan can correct me, but I think he said he uses 12 doves in his act. I only use 8 where 6 are colored and that's still too much to keep up with for me sometimes.

I like purple myself, its the most popular color when people get to check out the birds after a show sometimes. Dan is also correct in that a yellow bird will not get as many questions as say a purple or pink bird. I have found exactly what he said to be so true, the more unnatural the colors you use, the more people worry.

I try and color my doves once every 4 or 5 weeks. I use Jimmy Ray's Technicolor doves method, in his ancient video he teaches you how to mix the colors to create any custom colors yourself. I have yellow, blue, red, green, purple and orange birds currently. I am going to be getting a few more doves soon, But I am not sure what colors are next...

Remember once you start coloring it can take months and months for your bird to return to a plain white bird, so its a commitment if you have shows booked or commitments to meet with your birds. While it is simply an artistic choice, I feel people respond good to the colored birds.

Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Feb 4, 2007 07:29PM)

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm really psyched about coloring my 2 doves and am using that as a starting point to add more doves to the show and hopefully develop a "bird act". I don't really have the market for a dove act being a children's entertainment specialist, but I figure I could always use a shorter routine in a longer show and have something that has more of an artistic appeal. I often feel type cast that the children's entertainer has less artistic merit than the stagre act, but then I look at my show and realize how I've brought it to a whole other level. When I look at the 100+ members that attended the other night to an IBM ring meeting, I was one of only a handful of working pros. Among those I seemed to stand out as the busiest and highest grossing performer of the last Christmas season. I worked an average of 4 shows for 21 straight days in December! Not to toot my own horn too much, but I can now feel confident that us "kid's show" guys can really make it out there. In fact there seemed to be way more work for me than the high end stage acts in my market. Even some of the long time pros have day jobs as oppossed to my full time career.

Perhaps a bit off topic, but to get back to the doves, I hope that it might open more doors to other markets. I will soon have to look into a full custom stage costume. The modern tails that many sport looks way cool. I'll want to loose another 20 lbs. before I commit to something that will cost a small fortune and I'll have for the rest of the decade or longer.

Andy Amyx has been great with the dove colors, although I'm still waiting for a tracking number and suspect they haven't been shipped in th more than a week since my order. I hope it's just because he's so darn busy doing his dove act to have time for the mere mortals like myself!

I'll keep you'll posted on my order and the coloring process. Hopefully photos to come too.
Message: Posted by: haywire (Feb 4, 2007 11:06PM)

I do kids shows a lot myself, and yes I use the doves. Talk to Thomas from
http://www.magicsax.com He does kids shows using doves as well.

Some guys are too arrogant to do kids shows, me I don't turn any money down EVER.
Kids show performers are the front line of magic, out there every day bringing magic to people. Me, I perform for EVERYONE.

Good luck with your new adventures in magic... You'll be glad you learned doves.

Warmest regards,

Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Feb 5, 2007 07:56PM)
Hey guys,

I got my order from Andy Amyx today! Looks like he sent it right away after all, I just wasn't patient enough. I got the Dove DVD and the 2 dove colors. The DVD looks good, although I think he's had this out for a while and might need to be re-shoot to look current and to take advantage of his increased skill with doves. Anyhting that has been transfered from VHS to DVD might need to be revisited.

I hope to start to color the first dove tomorrow, so I'll keep you all posted. I want to buy a heat lamp first and get 2 cardboard boxes and old towels to dry the birds in. It's terribly cold here in Toronto, so I don't want them to get chilled by putting them back in their large parrot cage by the patio door window till they are completely dry and have recovered. I'll start with the pink color and see if I have enough energy to move on to the purple. Unfortunately I don't have a video camera, but I'll take several still shots along the way. I let everyone know how I do tomorrow.

I'm pleased that Andy has made it easier to get to where I'm looking to go.
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Feb 5, 2007 08:47PM)
Great Chris!

Yeah, Andy is a great guy!

I'm looking forward to those pictures! =]

Have fun with the coloring tomorrow!
Message: Posted by: haywire (Feb 6, 2007 07:54AM)
Andy is working on a followup to doves 101. I think its well overdue and I told him I would be the first to plop my money down for it. Doves 101 provided me with a great basis for learning doves, it really got me started.

Thomas Clark from http://www.magicsax.com also makes a great instructional video on doves, I highly reccomend it.

Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Feb 6, 2007 12:24PM)
Really Haywire?

Wow! I cant wait! I'll definetly be adding it to my collection for sure!!
Just wondering: how do you know of this info?

Also, any predicted release date?


PS, Chris, any update on the coloring? =]
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Feb 8, 2007 04:15AM)
Sucess Guys!

I was able to color first my new Pink Dove, then later yesterday he new Purple Dove. Both are very deep vibrant colors, no pastel shades here. The Pink is is very pink, as in hot flourencent pink, almost to the point of red. Not a girly soft pink, but a really strong fuscia pink. The other dove was freightened of her when she was all dry and put back in my large parrot cage. I don't think he recognized her! Then it was his turn for Deep Purple. Again, no wishy washy pastel colors here, a real dark purple that will almost look black if not properly lit. Both look amazing!

It was a real challange in the tub with each bird, but enjoyable and rewarding. First I washed the oil off the dove's feather's with a mild shampoo (and no I didn't follow with conditioner!). The birds looked very strange all soaking wet. I realized how puffed up their feathers normally are and how little protection they had with the feathers now clinging to their body. Neither bird seemed to mind the water as they do like bird baths, and every bird should get thourally cleaned once in a while. Next it was placing a bird into a large plastic garbage pail to catch all the excess spray. I carefully sprayed down each bird, minding the head, then turned each over for the underside. Last, I took my gloved finger and wiped the liquid into the dove's head and carefully around the eyes. Once I was sure that the color was everywhere, they were all done the color proces.

Paper towelling each dove, they then went to a large banker's box I had set up and sat among paper towels under a 50 watt heat lamp. Well actually I couldn't get such a low watage heat lamp, so I bought the metal shade with the clip-on attachment, and bought a 50 watt red/ yellow bulb that gave off enough heat in the confined space. It did take a long time for each to dry, at least 2 to 3 hours. I suppose it's like getting wet with your clothes on and lying in the sun to dry out withouht taking anything off. The more each dried, the better they looked. They lost the really dark color as it lightened a bit on drying. They also fluffed their feathers up more as they dried. I'm still a bit concerned that the tail feathers have not become as wide as they were, but I hope with more time they'll fluff out to where they were. I noticed the dove's do a lot of grooming after they dried to try to get their feather's back in good shape. Perhaps they'll look even better in a few days with more time to fluff and when the natural oils have come back to coat the feathers.

I am very pleased with the results and think that Andy did a good job with the pro colors. Much better than trying to buy food coloring yourself. He charges a lot for a spray bottle and 4 tablespoons of powdered color ($25), but it would be hard to find your own supplier and he's done all the color reaserch and now the ratio of water to powder, probably through a lot of experimentation. So I have to give him credit for all that.

Now I'm getting really keen on getting more doves and color them too. I was thinking 4 more for a total of 6. I should be able to do a decent dove act with 6. Now that 2 are colored I think the rest should be too. I was thinking of bright yellow, peacock blue, and lime green. I might leave the last one white for contrast. I'm hoping that Abdy can accommadate these colors instead of just the stock blue and green. I want a lighter blue and green instead of all these really heavy colors. I'm sure the cake world from where these colors come from have hundreds of colors in all for professional bakers. It might just take Andy a few weeks to get them in.

In the meantime, I need to get some additional routines to produce the doves. I might only be able to fit 3 or 4 into the Chalet Doves to Rabbit, so I might need to vanish a few as well. I'll write another post about routines, if you guys could help out some more.

I'll try to go through the pictures I took of my doves and see if I can get them posted in the next few days.
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Feb 11, 2007 08:06PM)
Hey Chris!! Great to hear that it was a success!!

I'm anxuiously waiting on those pictures!! Cant wait to see how the process went! =]

Have a good one,
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Laraway (Feb 21, 2007 01:16PM)
Chris, any update, or pictures? =]

Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Feb 27, 2007 06:13AM)
Hey guys,

I now have all six doves colored with only 1 duplicate color. I am waiting for a re-order of the Blue and Green from Andy Amyx as I was asking for lighter colors but they came out much too light. So I'll be re-doing 2 of them. The others look great. The audiences seem to be really impressed or don't notice that doves are not usually rainbow colors - most of the kids think it is normal, and I often tell them these are rainbow birds that came from deep inside the rainforests of South America!

As for pixs, I still need to shoot the final result and then learn how to load them into the computer then upload them to this site. I hope to install my new computer this week and it has a built in media card reader slot, so that will be much easier. Give me a few days, and then viola, all will be revealed!