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Topic: Old style liquid roughing fluid
Message: Posted by: Canvey Card Sharp (Jan 29, 2007 03:27AM)
Does anyone know a supplier of the old style liquid roughing fluid that you applied with cotton wool(preferably in the UK)?

I've tried the aerosol/spray can version but find it stains the cards and certainly doesn't last long enough for regular usage.

Thanks, in advance, for your help.
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Jan 29, 2007 10:18AM)
Not a UK site, but here's the product you should be looking for...
http://lighthousehobbies.com/CatalogDetails.aspx?id=9032

Here's some interesting info I pulled from a post last year, too:

"The original ingredient for roughing fluid was carbolic acid (now it is called "phenol"). Testors Dullcote is the same thing. Most of us are familiar with the spray (Dullcote #1260) but do you know that the liquid is still available? It is sold as Testors Dullcote #1160. There are some applications where it is much easier to apply roughing fluid with a brush, cotton swab or cotton ball. It is possible to buy phenol in the form of disinfectants also (e.g. Lysol)."

Best of luck!
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 29, 2007 01:56PM)
Just a note before you pick up your big bottle of carbolic acid. This stuff is not only highly poisonous, but caustic as well.
The amount of carbolic acid (or phenol, the active ingrediant in Carbolic Acid) in Dullcoat or Krylon is small compared to a bottle full of pure carbolic acid.

I don't know if you've got kids Barry, but this stuff can be deadly even in small quantities.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 29, 2007 03:25PM)
Its funny you should mention that as I often wonder what chemicals are actually on a deck of treated cards. I mean, are they suitable for a child to handle? Possibly not.
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Jan 29, 2007 03:58PM)
Carbolic acid was the original ingredient, way back when... . I seriously doubt if anyone still uses it in its pure form for the exact reason mentioned in Silverking's post. Nasty stuff, to be sure! Testors still contains a small amount, though, which is something to be aware of.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 29, 2007 04:11PM)
Krylon or Testors is basically a flat lacquer that, once dry is fine for handling by anybody.

I'm not sure what trace amounts of Carbolic Acid would do to a kid, but I'd never touch the stuff myself.
Message: Posted by: Canvey Card Sharp (Jan 30, 2007 05:11AM)
Thanks for the info lads.

Dunno about the old style liquid roughing fluid being dangerous but the fumes from the spray can variety is enough to take out an army!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 30, 2007 01:16PM)
I only spray outside.
Message: Posted by: johnnyboy (Jan 31, 2007 04:33AM)
I used to manufacture the liquid fluid, which was applied with a soft pad of cloth to the card. The solvent would evaporate leaving the resin coating penetrating the cards surface. For some reason the cheaper quality card would have the best results. We used to wonder why, until Sherlock Holmes solved the mystery. The better USA quality cards where being made with a special coating which made them more durable to use but the coating prevented the solvent absorbing into the card. A card with a smooth surface will not allow adhesion.
I know have a better system which we apply with a special roller to all our products , it does not distort the colour of the card, no fumes. However if you use one of the Sprays which are on the market you should cut out a card board mask and spray the centre of the card, if not the spray can enter the edges of the laminate and stain. Wow i:m going for a lie down after all that
Message: Posted by: mchristy (Jan 31, 2007 10:46AM)
I'm not sure what's available in the UK, but I've had some luck with "RUST-OLEUM American Accents Clear Top Coat" It's has on the label as "7902830 Matte Clear"

I've only made 2 Invisibles using different brands of cheap decks, but they've worked well, and I've been pleased with the results. Nothing has yellowed or curled up on me yet!

I'm going to try it on some bikes this weekend.
Message: Posted by: Canvey Card Sharp (Feb 1, 2007 01:51AM)
Johnnyboy - have you got a website as I note you sell/manufacture?

Lads thanks for all the advice so far. I take on board what some have stated about spraying outdoors and I have tried this - although any slight gust of wind can cause one or two problems!

My main concern is the actual can variety roughing spray - it just doesn't last anywhere near as long as the old style liquid.
Message: Posted by: gadfly3d (Feb 8, 2007 10:25AM)
Here is a tip for those of you who want to make "old Style" roughing fluid. Go to a costume supplier and purchase a small bottle of spirit gum. No dilute that with pure rubbing alcohol at approximately 5/1.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 21, 2007 06:11PM)
In the 60s what was common knowledge was using Gum Arabic and alcohol.

It was not without problems. After about three years the treated cards yellowed. But it was what we knew to do and it worked.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: chrisgq (Feb 21, 2007 09:11PM)
I just used Krylon Matte Coat for the first time and its works great for me. It's been a few months now and I have'nt gotten any staining
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 23, 2007 11:39AM)
In an absolute emergency and especially with jumbo cards, you can shake up a Coca-Cola and spray the cards LIGHTLY with Coke. It will stick once but it also makes a noise when you separate them. Yet it will get you through the show.

Someday I need to write a book on, "It's Showtime and My Luggage and Props Are Where?"

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (May 26, 2007 02:18PM)
When I used bottled roughing fluid, many years ago, I put a cotton ball into the opening and used the bottle like a magic marker. Worked great! When I was done, I just removed the cotton ball and replaced the cap.
Message: Posted by: airship (May 29, 2007 02:46PM)
LOL Bob, I would definitely buy that book!

I also love this quote:

[quote]In the 60s what was common knowledge was using Gum Arabic and alcohol.
It was not without problems. After about three years the treated cards yellowed. But it was what we knew to do and it worked.[/quote]

I would have done that in a Dana Carvey 'grumpy old man' voice and ended with 'and we LIKED it!" :)