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Topic: The seamless routine
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 9, 2007 03:06PM)
Hi all,

I'm not sure if this has been tried before however I have seen the game where you post an effect and the next post has to start with the last letter....This is different.

I will post an opener and the next effect posted should use the same equipmentor transition smoothly.

as an example, Ring Flight leads into Killer Key (The initial key can be in the key case)

I hope what I am trying to say is clear and possible.
And lets try to get a variety rather than all cards. We'll see what happens.

So here goes,

Opener:

as always, Ambitious Card to pocket.

use the card from the pocket to.....
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Feb 9, 2007 03:56PM)
I really like the idea of making such transitions amd minmizing on props.
No methods or what is used will be revealed but here are some ideas.

Continue with Carlysle's "Homing Card"
or
"2 Signed Card Transposition" Carroll Magic Menu
or
Another idea is one of my own where a little something is added for a nice rising card effect.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 9, 2007 05:28PM)
Nice, lets keep this going.

We may come up with the worlds longest seamless routine.

Posted: Feb 9, 2007 6:29pm
Now from Homing Card to...
Message: Posted by: Shodan (Feb 13, 2007 02:52PM)
OK I'll bite. Produce the remaining 3 of a kind in a spectator cuts the aces style effect.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 13, 2007 03:08PM)
I know what is trying to be done and won't ruin the party. BUT remember in the practice of close up magic it is far more important to interact with the audience. Make them feel involved. Your transitions should be with people.

With that said the exersise hurts nothing.
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 13, 2007 03:45PM)
Hmm. What happened to stay away from all cards?

So after a spectator cuts the aces, do Chinese Miser's Dream -- Henry Evans did this on V3 of The Greatest Magic Performances Ever Assembled.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Feb 13, 2007 04:00PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-13 16:45, Jim Poor wrote:
Hmm. What happened to stay away from all cards?
[/quote]

Yeah. Once the cards come into play folks will tend to stick with that "equipment" and not make a transition to other props.

Since the cards are out, a coin matrix would make a transition to coins.
Since this is a Table Hopping and Strolling area, a matrix is probably not the best choice.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 13, 2007 04:16PM)
Great to think about but I too fear that a seamless routine can be a really bad idea after a while. The audience needs closure so they can reset and get ready for something else. So you just need to decide what that moment is.

Creatively tho, it's fantastic to do this. I'll admit it.

Reminds me of a video shoot I went to where before the start of the shoot, some magician was doing card tricks for anyone who would watch and they went on and on and on and on and one with one big huge seamless routine and the guy's buddy says... "he could do this all day" to which I'm thinking to myself.... "HE COULD.. BUT HE SHOULDN'T!!!!'. Not only were there no breaks but he didn't seem to care waht the reactions were to the tricks by the spectators. Instead of reading their body language that made certain it was time to 'end it' he just went on and on and on and .....

phew!
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 13, 2007 04:29PM)
Chinese Miser's dream introduced coins into the mix without having to do a full matrix. And they have holes, so maybe a string effect, to string and (finger)ring to-> whatever else.

I think we can agree that we probably wouldn't be doing a literal seamless routine, but as others have pointed out, this is great for creativity's sake.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Feb 13, 2007 05:19PM)
Heck!
Even if we "come up with the worlds longest seamless routine" it would be foolish to actually attempt it.

Short sets of 2 to 4 tricks that use only a couple of props and includes transitions between those props is something I find interesting and useful for the sake of pocket management if nothing else.
Actually such transitions are not bad for table work either. In one older Okito Box routine my ending was showing the coins gone and a sponge ball swelling out of the box.

It's just an exercise.

Jim's idea of using a Chinese coin for a string trick (Ooops! effect ;) ) is something I looked into via Sol Stone's "Hung Coin" and a routine by Steve Duschek.

One problem with this topic is that not everyone may know an effect that's posted.
I don't know the one Jim mentioned.
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 13, 2007 05:37PM)
Good Point Jaz,

Basically, the performer produces several large Chinese coins from in between two playing cards.

I like the idea of transitions that introduce the next routine or a prop to be used in the next routine. The two shows I am working on right now have smooth (I hope) transitions from routine to routine.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 13, 2007 11:12PM)
Back in your boxes folks.

This was meant to be more of a creative excersise.
I guess what I am trying to do is see how much transition plays a part in performance.

To move from a coin effect to a card effect and then to a spongeball effect lacks continuity.

To move from ACR to In a Flash to Slick Splits with the sigle coin has a natural transition to it.

I am working on four routines that all are seamless and transition logically, hence taking away any suspicion of gaffed anything. This post was to fuel my brain and maybe even yours.

Will//

Posted:
Thanks Jaz and Jim, by the way.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 14, 2007 10:22AM)
See your actually missing the point. The transitions, and continuity come from you. You make them seamless. Your personality and performing persona is the continuity.
Message: Posted by: matt.magicman (Feb 14, 2007 04:36PM)
Card on ceiling
followed by a deck vanish
that should end this thread!
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 14, 2007 04:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-14 17:36, matt.magicman wrote:
Card on ceiling
followed by a deck vanish
that should end this thread!
[/quote]

That's very funny! A+.
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 14, 2007 05:38PM)
Unless you go with invisible deck :rotf:
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 15, 2007 09:51AM)
Wow, I never expected reponses like this.

Definately dissapointed.

And yes, I know the transitions come from me and my performance structure.
This topic has nothing to do with my performance. I work on my own routines.

IT WAS AN EXPERIMENT IN CREATIVITY!! (am I yelling that lound enough for you?)

End of topic.
What a friggen waste of thought.
Message: Posted by: matt.magicman (Feb 16, 2007 05:20PM)
I guess its all about routining in the real world
I saw peter wardell's lecture last year, at he's all about this in his performances
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 17, 2007 08:30AM)
Consider this topic dead.
Lock it and leave it.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 17, 2007 10:21AM)
Wow pretty hostile.
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Feb 17, 2007 10:39AM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-17 09:30, blink_inc wrote:
Consider this topic dead.
Lock it and leave it.
[/quote]

Haunted Key!! :)
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 17, 2007 11:51AM)
Hostile?
No not really, dissapointed more like it. Guess my dissapointment shows in my words.
Read the posts, the only things they provide are reasons not to do this excersise in creativity.

I'll note your contribution Danny "See your actually missing the point. The transitions, and continuity come from you"

This is not, nor was it ever intended to be for my routine.
This is not, nor was it ever intended to be a real routine.

There is a topic 'round here somewhere that is like 6 pages long based around using the last letter of a trick.....how original, never saw that one before..really makes my brain start to think. (sarcastically spoken)

Tying hard not to take this personally,
Will//
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 17, 2007 01:36PM)
Too be fair, a couple of us tried to keep it going. Also to be fair, I can see why the OP would get frustrated. I thought it was a great exercise in creativity.

Knowing that it would probably never lead to a "real" routine, what is wrong with coming up with unique ways to transition from one effect smoothly to another buy using some of the same props, gimmicks, items, what-have-you in the next routine. It is a bit like my B-day show I'm working on, where PB&J makes Rocky Raccoon hungry and causes him to stir in his carrier. This leads to a Rocky routine where he, among other things, jumps through hoops. The hoops then lead to a linking ring routine, and so on and so forth. Of course there is a lot of interaction and audience participation involved, but for the original idea stated, we don't need all that in this thread.

As much participation as the name game thread got, I was expecting this one to really take off. Part of the "problem" was that it got stuck on cards right from the start. How hard is it to transition from a card routine to a routine that uses or flows from a card or deck of cards without being a card er, ah, trick?

At first glance not so easy, but with a little thought really not that hard. Card to wallet, to torn and restored card in a dove pan, to magic cooking, to whatever you want.

Another issue that came up was that everyone may not know the routines posted. So a (very) brief description of the effect, or at least the props used might help.

Maybe the creative juices were all dried up after stupid cupid day?

Personally, I'd enjoy seeing folks give this another shot, but that's just me.

Best,
Jim
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 17, 2007 01:37PM)
Oh and PaleoMagi,

THAT was funny!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 17, 2007 08:46PM)
Well I only mentioned how the exersise misses the point of transitions.

THEN I said keep going. No need for frustration.

Sorry for the real world break in on fantasy land performing. My bad.
Message: Posted by: TheCaffeinator (Feb 23, 2007 04:28PM)
Well...one "problem," if I can use that word, with the original request is that creativity is not involved. Basically, this is a memory excercise...much like the name game on which it is based. With a volume or two of the collected Apocalypse or Magic Menu on the desk next to you, you can go playing "connect the props" for hours. I think that part of what killed the thread, if in fact it is dead, is the way in which creativity is actually limited by defining continuity in terms of the props in your hands.

I, and I'm sure many others here as well, could build a seamless routine with strong continuity out of a coin effect, card effect, and sponge ball effect. If you really want a creative exercise, see how many ways you can come up with to do exactly that.

The end result of the prop-to-prop exercise would not be a seamless routine. It would be a list of effects. To transform them into routines, you would still have to work out transitions, whether they be verbal, physical, or whatever.

With regards to your stated intent of trying to see "how much transition plays a part in performance," permit me to answer directly without adding to the chain of effects: For me, transition plays a huge part. I spend a great deal of time choosing effects, developing sequences, and working out transitions from effect to effect. Props in hand play a part, but not always. Transition and continuity are very important to me, but they are not very important to all magicians in all performance contexts, for better or for worse.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 05:11PM)
It was an attempt.
Message: Posted by: TheCaffeinator (Feb 24, 2007 01:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-23 18:11, blink_inc wrote:
It was an attempt.

[/quote]

Yes...and it does have its uses. For example, it actually is one of the activities I perform in constructing my routines, though I consider it a bare-bones method for constructing a simple framework or skeleton of effects which must be "fleshed out" with real transitional elements, patter, etc.