(Close Window)
Topic: Prohibition question
Message: Posted by: close-up (Feb 11, 2007 12:10PM)
Just received Prohibition and have a question. Wondering how important it is to seal the bottle by placing the cap back on the bottle before the penetration of the cap. I've been performing "Coin in the Bottle" for about 30 years and never once resealed the bottle before penetrating the bottle with the coin. And never once was it brought to my attention that the bottle was not resealed before the penetration. Would like to hear from all.

Thanks,

close-up
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Feb 11, 2007 12:13PM)
Close-up

It is personal preference. But there is a difference between coin in the bottle and this type of cap in the bottle. The coin does not fit through the opening...

Tony
Message: Posted by: SoCalPro (Feb 11, 2007 12:16PM)
I don't think that it is important to put a cap on the top but I think by plugging up the hole, it cancels any thought of you sneaking it through the top. If you don't want to carry the extra cap, have the spectator put a finger in the hole or just cover the top with their hand. Just my 2 cents.

JIM
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Feb 11, 2007 12:17PM)
I believe that you just answered your own question.

Because of the clean moves and visible penetration, I don't think it matters if the bottle is recapped or not.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 11, 2007 12:17PM)
It isn't needed but it removes an out for the spectator. W/out the capping they may, later, think "hmmmm...I bet he had a cap in his mouth and spit it into the opening" or something like that. If you remove the out the the spectator is left with the conclusion that the penitration took place.
Message: Posted by: close-up (Feb 11, 2007 12:21PM)
Thanks for the feed back. Jim, I like your idea about the spectator covering up the hole. Plus it really brings the spectator really up-close and part of the routine. By making the spectator part of the physical magic, it cancels any thoughts that the cap someway entered the bottle thru the opening.

Thanks
Message: Posted by: SoCalPro (Feb 11, 2007 12:27PM)
I LOVE the routine. The only complaint that I have is that is I perform at 4 restaurants a week. 3 have a bar attached. Just about everyone who comes in and has a drink will get it in a glass. My performance ops have gone down but I still carry it with me from time to time, just hoping................. :)
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 11, 2007 03:36PM)
You could always do "cap in glass" sealed with a rubber band around a napkin. :)
Message: Posted by: late night diner (Feb 11, 2007 07:04PM)
I find a disadvantage to the cap in a "borrowed bottle" is getting the "last of the beer" all over your hands, which means getting sticky hands.

So far, I usually comment "Let me get a clean bottle from behind the bar and I'll show you something strange", but that doesn't seem as impromptu.

I do like using a bottle for this trick. Anyone have any suggestions?
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 11, 2007 07:13PM)
Dump out the left over beer first into a napkin. This doesn't seem to be a deal breaker.
Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (Feb 12, 2007 05:46AM)
Re-sealing the bottle in Prohibition isn't vitally important at all. It's just as effective without capping it. The purpose, however, is to further seal the deal in a subtle manner and it just seems to be the most effective way to do so in this particular case. It's a 2 second extra step that makes a big difference.

When the cap is replaced...and you lightly shake that bottle to show that the cap is on and will not shake off, you are also taking the idea that the bottle is empty (no noise) from a visual assumption to an (un)audible fact. It's a subtle difference that reinforces their train of thought into closing any reconstruction avenues afterwards even though it is purely on a subconscious level. It's that cool moment when you're tweeking with the back of their minds without them even knowing it. You're literaly speaking to their subconscious mind.

When the sealed bottle with the cap is handed out, the cap inside cannot be removed without twisting off the cap on top. This also closes the road to reconstructing a possible entry point thus eliminating the idea that sleight of hand may have been used rather that 'magic'.

The step is subtle and the concept may even be overkill but the point is solid that if you can get that spectator to believe something rather than just assume something then you will enhance the illusion and get a far greater reaction.

...or something like that.

peace, charlie
Message: Posted by: michaelrice (Feb 12, 2007 06:53AM)
I like this effect, I haven't purchased it yet but I have come up with a good routine for it.

I just have one question before the final purchase, I've watched the video and noticed the cap that 'penetrates' the bottle is bent. If the spectator asks why, what do you say the reason for this is?

Mike
Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (Feb 12, 2007 08:32AM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-12 07:53, Michaelrice wrote:
I like this effect, I haven't purchased it yet but I have come up with a good routine for it.

I just have one question before the final purchase, I've watched the video and noticed the cap that 'penetrates' the bottle is bent. If the spectator asks why, what do you say the reason for this is?

Mike
[/quote]
The 'demo' you viewed was cut for a specific reason (right or wrong). The question will never come up...never...as it is perfectly logical in the sequence of events during the routine.

peace, charlie
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Feb 12, 2007 08:34AM)
A few posts ago someone gave an idea:

Ask the spectator: "How could you get this cap INSIDE this bottle?"
Their answer, or your if needed "Bend it." Patter on from there with something like, "well, that is one way, let me show you another.

Best,
Jim
Message: Posted by: SoCalPro (Feb 12, 2007 09:48AM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-12 06:46, Charlie Justice wrote:
Re-sealing the bottle in Prohibition isn't vitally important at all. It's just as effective without capping it. The purpose, however, is to further seal the deal in a subtle manner and it just seems to be the most effective way to do so in this particular case. It's a 2 second extra step that makes a big difference.

When the cap is replaced...and you lightly shake that bottle to show that the cap is on and will not shake off, you are also taking the idea that the bottle is empty (no noise) from a visual assumption to an (un)audible fact. It's a subtle difference that reinforces their train of thought into closing any reconstruction avenues afterwards even though it is purely on a subconscious level. It's that cool moment when you're tweeking with the back of their minds without them even knowing it. You're literaly speaking to their subconscious mind.

When the sealed bottle with the cap is handed out, the cap inside cannot be removed without twisting off the cap on top. This also closes the road to reconstructing a possible entry point thus eliminating the idea that sleight of hand may have been used rather that 'magic'.

The step is subtle and the concept may even be overkill but the point is solid that if you can get that spectator to believe something rather than just assume something then you will enhance the illusion and get a far greater reaction.

...or something like that.

peace, charlie
[/quote]

Word. :)
Message: Posted by: derrick (Feb 12, 2007 10:15AM)
I love this effect. I just wish that more people would drink their beer strait from a bottle so I could perform the blasted thing more often without having to borrow a bottle from the bar. I'd like to get my restaurant to offer a dollar off Corona while I perform. I don't think it will happen but I'd like it.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 12, 2007 01:18PM)
I've seen in some threads concerning this routine where people question the bending of the cap and it taking away from the magical aspect. The effect is a cap penitrating the bottom of a bottle not a cap through neck of bottle. When doing card through window I don't see people looking for a card larger than the window. This is a great looking mini illusion.
Message: Posted by: Clarioneer (Feb 12, 2007 03:35PM)
There's nothing to stop you using a beer glass and spec holds beer mat over top if you so prefer in a bar environment ?

think laterally.... how about jumping beans and a medicine bottle (you use to hold them in)? jumping beans jump so can even use them in a gadabout routine first and then jump one into the bottle :) or vice versa - just a thought ? Indeed... if you start by jumping one back in the bottle you are set ready to go with a two in the hand routine...
Message: Posted by: michaelrice (Feb 12, 2007 06:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-12 09:34, Jim Poor wrote:
A few posts ago someone gave an idea:

Ask the spectator: "How could you get this cap INSIDE this bottle?"
Their answer, or your if needed "Bend it." Patter on from there with something like, "well, that is one way, let me show you another.

Best,
Jim
[/quote]

Yes that is what I had in mind but I thought that it could be part of the presentation in the routine on the DVD. I just purchased it there, looking forward to getting the ins and outs.

Mike
Message: Posted by: SoCalPro (Feb 12, 2007 07:35PM)
Charlie gives you the perfect motivation for bending the cap. It makes perfect sense.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Feb 12, 2007 09:43PM)
Good point! The question DOES come up, and has come up a couple of times lately...so...

I've added, "...you're probably wondering why I'm bending the cap...I'm going to need to get it OUT again, without breaking the bottle!" That's the point where I "dump out" the bent cap into my hand...showing the cap when I say the word, "OUT".

I also have a bottle, ready to go, that has an UNBENT cap, so that, if asked later...well...you know where I'm going with this! ;)

Doug
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 15, 2007 02:52PM)
I'm still learning the penetration move, but as far as the justification for bending of the cap, I'm thinking along these lines; "Would you believe I can actually put this cap inside this bottle?" They say whatever they say. I bend it and drop it in. They laugh or give me a dirty look or whatever. I dump it out doing the shuttle move thingy, whatever it's called. I say, "That's the easy way. This is the hard way!" Do the penetration, take my bow.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 15, 2007 04:18PM)
Here is the justification for bending the cap and intro to the routine. I present it as a bar bet "how do you get the cap into the bottle?". The spec will either guess you are a wise arse and bend the cap or you can bend it and show them how slick you are. You can then tell them about how a guy tried to mess you up by capping the bottle and go into the penitration.
Message: Posted by: Clarioneer (Feb 27, 2007 03:32AM)
For further ideas check out these cheap toys - magnetic marbles and jumping beans

http://www.kitsch.co.uk/acatalog/Pocket_Money_Toys.html

or glow in the dark ones http://www.slips.co.uk/product_details.php?item_id=230

don't restrict yourself to bottle caps lol