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Topic: Which Blaine trick is original?
Message: Posted by: limhanchung (Jan 11, 2003 08:44AM)
What do you think?
Message: Posted by: tankk (Jan 11, 2003 11:25AM)
Good question. Does he have any?
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Jan 11, 2003 02:09PM)
You mean something he does IS original?
Message: Posted by: ColinB (Jan 11, 2003 06:51PM)
As Glen David Gold has Charles Carter say in Carter Beats The Devil; "I didn't invent sugar or flour, but I bake a mean apple pie."

Of course, the quality of David Blaine's apple pie is a matter of (usually deeply divided) opinion...
Message: Posted by: manix (Jan 11, 2003 08:56PM)
David Blaine is an exquisite performer, but nothing he performs is original.
Message: Posted by: Maxim (Jan 12, 2003 07:05AM)
I've never seen another magician pretending to lie dead on the street and dancing in a puddle as comedy magic before. Gives Jackie Mason a run for his money eh?
Message: Posted by: Peedlkyle (Jan 12, 2003 11:21AM)
His stunts are original, though I don't count them anywhere near magic. He is a good performer, unfortunately employing simple and popular effects.
Message: Posted by: Daniel J. Ferrara Jr. (Jan 12, 2003 12:42PM)
Yea, he does do standard effects, but he is great at marketing himself. I mean, we can say anything we want about him. However, he is the one with TV specials and the tons of money. I think it has more to do with the character that he plays rather than the effects that he performs. People really beleive that he has magical powers as apposed to magicians who merely perform magic tricks.
Message: Posted by: manix (Jan 13, 2003 11:29AM)
As far as I know, his stunts are not original either (if you mean buried alive, vertigo etc.).

They may not have been done before but I'm pretty sure they have been documented. They are very very old stunts.
Message: Posted by: Neil Marriott (Jan 13, 2003 12:52PM)
Mostly are. The TV specials and his book explain his influences for each stunt.
Message: Posted by: Donnay (Jan 14, 2003 12:20PM)
I think the best Mr. Blaine can do is that he owns the T.V rights to crush and restore soda, so don't be think of taking that one up for a few years.
But credit where credit is due the guy is making a whole bog pile of cash fooling people who are not in the know!
Message: Posted by: Peedlkyle (Jan 15, 2003 01:43PM)
Well, the idea of his stunts are all unoriginal, but you must also consider that ALMOST all magic is inspired in one way or another by an old tradition/scam.
Message: Posted by: nums (Jan 16, 2003 10:11AM)
[quote]
On 2003-01-14 13:20, Donnay wrote:
But credit where credit is due the guy is making a whole bog pile of cash fooling people who are not in the know!
[/quote]

I think a lot of people( I am not jusk getting on you Donnay) put how much money a person makes = success,I know some people who have lots money but I would consider failers at LIFE, IE: drug dealers, prostitutes, Enron execs and the like, do not get me wrong money is nice and needed but, TIME is the most important commodity we have, I consider myself very successful in this business, I make a comfortable living and love the art, the greatest "pay" I get is the fact that I get to spend the majority of my life with my wife... would I take more money ? you bet, but not in exchange for much more of my time, Before I get to many responses on me equating Blain to a common street walker, I am not. I was just saying money does not equal success in my eyes.

Jeff
Message: Posted by: Ellen Kotzin (Jan 16, 2003 02:10PM)
C'mon guys...SO he uses stuff that is not his own..HOW many of you all use other people's illusions. Oh, is it because you aren't getting paid the big bucks like mr.B? Well, I'm definitely not in love with him but if his "character" has gotten him on national tv, and the way he performs has gotten people once again into magic..then great. Doesn't he deserve the money because it's his "character" , the way he presented that got him there.

Many tricks that Harry Anderson uses are NOT his. Needle thru arm--orginated thru someone else...card on seat, chap-o, pen thru tongue, and there is much more. But just like Blaine (but in the late 80's) Harry got popular using these tricks (not to mention being on tv). He was even KNOWN for the needle thru the arm (originally NOT his--though he made one later). Also chapeaugraphy came back because of him--(chap-o NOT his) He was one of the highest paid magicians...he developed his magic character and went with it. Because he was so good at it, he is now retired at 50.
I am sure there are tons of magicians who use unoriginal material--as well as using other magicians' lines in performance too!

:idea:

LN
harryandersonfan.com
Message: Posted by: CloseUpMagicKid (Jan 30, 2003 02:20PM)
[quote]
On 2003-01-16 15:10, harryandersonfan wrote:
C'mon guys...SO he uses stuff that is not his own..HOW many of you all use other people's illusions. Oh, is it because you aren't getting paid the big bucks like mr.B? Well, I'm definitely not in love with him but if his "character" has gotten him on national tv, and the way he performs has gotten people once again into magic..then great. Doesn't he deserve the money because it's his "character" , the way he presented that got him there.

Many tricks that Harry Anderson uses are NOT his. Needle thru arm--orginated thru someone else...card on seat, chap-o, pen thru tongue, and there is much more. But just like Blaine (but in the late 80's) Harry got popular using these tricks (not to mention being on tv). He was even KNOWN for the needle thru the arm (originally NOT his--though he made one later). Also chapeaugraphy came back because of him--(chap-o NOT his) He was one of the highest paid magicians...he developed his magic character and went with it. Because he was so good at it, he is now retired at 50.
I am sure there are tons of magicians who use unoriginal material--as well as using other magicians' lines in performance too!

:idea:

LN
harryandersonfan.com
[/quote]

Yet the question was... "Which Blaine trick is original?"

And the answer probably is... "NONE"

And for most skilled magicians, I tend to believe they try to develop their skills in order to improve an effect (new or old) and therefore possbily call it their own original.

I have a coin routine with borrowed ideas and moves from a bunch of coin greats... but nobody does MY routine... so I guess it's original, eh?

Even Blaine's camera trick levitation isn't 'original'.

They used the same concept in Superman the Movie back in the 80s and the people on the street were like... "WOW!!!!"
Message: Posted by: Wickedx (Jan 31, 2003 11:38AM)
What about the needle through hand he perfformed on jonathan ross's show? i haven't seen that before anywhere?

Paul
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jan 31, 2003 01:32PM)
Paul,

The needle through the arm (as performed) has been around since the 1960’s. There is an earlier version that was performed at carnivals but used a different method. The carnival version was being used in the 1940’s and maybe earlier.

Harry Anderson made the needle through arm trick popular back in the early 70’s.
Message: Posted by: johnr733 (Jan 31, 2003 01:54PM)
I never saw any magician swallow a snake or a piece of thread and then pull it out of somewhere else till I saw DB do it.
Message: Posted by: CloseUpMagicKid (Jan 31, 2003 04:05PM)
[quote]
On 2003-01-31 14:54, johnr733 wrote:
I never saw any magician swallow a snake or a piece of thread and then pull it out of somewhere else till I saw DB do it.
[/quote]

Watch some older Penn & Teller routines. From eating thread with razors to cutting snakes in half... etc.etc.etc.
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Feb 1, 2003 08:48PM)
With regards to the needle in the arm trick. He put it through his hand, don't know if that makes a difference?

I don't see why he should be given any stick for not doing anything new. There are millions of tricks already in existence. O.K. it's cool when people make up their own stuff and it's nice for us lot to see something new. But simple tricks performed well are often the best tricks for laymen. Which after all is our target audience. It's nice to show magicians something they haven't seen before but it doesn't really apply to Joe Public. Joe just likes to be fooled and often the oldies but goldies will do the trick
Message: Posted by: kasperzghost (Feb 13, 2003 08:07PM)
Ok ill put it bluntly NONE of the tricks he does is his own BUT he dosent call him self a magician hes a PREFORMER, The thing with david blaine is the way he presents himself! magic isn't just the trick its the preformance too




kas
Message: Posted by: Pablo Tejero (Feb 14, 2003 04:12AM)
I donīt like Blaine. Even i donīt like how he perfoms the effects.

But i dislike most three things about "Blaineīs World". The firs is all of these new webpages, that teach you that in two-three days, just learning a few mini videos, you will become as Blaine... you will become a magician. And of course... if you do a trick with money... maybe the spectator tell you to keep the money. Woooo, itīs great!!! :rotf: (Totally ironic).

Magic is an art, and as an art must be performed.

The second thing i hate is hearing Mr Blaine talking with Di Caprio, and discrediting the stage magic "with his boxes and so on". Hey man, i perform card magic now, among others, but i could swear to you the spectacle that for example David Copperfield, Lance Burton, Pendragons and so on, give to them spectators, Mr Blaine could not give them though he was dreaming. I donīt saying that one magic is better than the other (though for me of course is more magical Copperfield than Blaine), i only say that Blaine could not appear in television criticizing stage magic. Why he does? Because he will never could do stage magic well?

And the third thing i dislike a lot, is to fool people. But not to fool people with magic, i mean fool people, with people on the street, that they are actors, not real people. I mean fool people with a levitation, that is a camera trick, i mean fool people, not with magic. And we do magic, not fool people.

Of course, it depends on what you like. Mr. Blaine has good things for me too, just a few, but he has.

And i agree that most of us, do not do original tricks of ourselves. But i think that at least the famous magicians, must do original tricks. And Blaine is a famouse magician, isnīt it? And did he performed original tricks? Did he performed original presentation, original character?

Donīt you have a magician in your magical circle in your city that performed as a guru, a mysthic, years before Blaine appears? Here in Spain we have.

So whatīs the original in Mr Blaine characther, magic, and so on? I could not find anything. Maybe others could. Any idea?

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero :bikes:

P.S. Of course i didnīt pretend to offend anyone of you, even i didnīt pretend to offend Mr Blaine too. Just telling you my opinion. Hope you understand it. Regards.
Message: Posted by: dillib (Feb 14, 2003 05:26AM)
I'm inclined to think it's his character - promoting a side of magic unknown to the public, Street Magic! Because to many people, magic just involves pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
Message: Posted by: Pablo Tejero (Feb 14, 2003 09:53AM)
[quote]
On 2003-02-14 06:26, cheezycool wrote:
I'm inclined to think it's his character - promoting a side of magic unknown to the public, Street Magic! Because to many people, magic just involves pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
[/quote]

Do you think really what Blaine does is street magic?

I donīt think so. He does magic, but not street magic. He does card magic (two card montes, triumpsh, cards in the mouth and so on), restaurant magic (breaking the glass, the healed and sealed soda)... and so on. But street magic?

Why? Because he perform his magic on street? David Copperfiel make a jumbo and a train dispearing on the streets too, not in a theatre, or the Liberty Statue... thatīs street magic?

Just asking.

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero :bikes:
Message: Posted by: gandolf (Feb 14, 2003 02:23PM)
I think Blaine does perform "street" magic in as much as he will go up to strangers on the street who were not expecting to see a magic trick (often times chasing them down in the process). Ithink the definition of street magic is magic performed in an impromptu session in a non-traditional setting. Do I like Blaine as a performer? Not really. I am not a fan of his presentation (the monotone delivery, and all the "watch, watch, watch" drives me up a tree). He does not do original tricks, but does present them in a different way (eg . the stolen watch through the window is merely the throught the picture frame illusion). I do credit him (good or bad) for getting a whole new generation of younger people interested in magic. :dizzy:
Message: Posted by: Peedlkyle (Feb 14, 2003 02:33PM)
The reason he was criticizing stage magic is that it's not in your face, up close and personal. It's amazing, yes, but the audience doesn't feel THEY were affected. Personally I don't find stage magic impressive for this reason. I like participating. I think that's all that he meant, not that his was better, only more hands-on.
Message: Posted by: Jonatan B (Feb 14, 2003 04:31PM)
I must say that Stage magic is more to enjoy a crowd and therefore more suitable for it.

Close up is more personal related and more emotions are drawn upon a single person (or a minor crowd)- it's also more closer viewed by the spectator(s).

I think that BOTH are as good but it depends on the magician and the taste of the person who is watching. :xmas:
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 15, 2003 08:03PM)
the ones where he gets paid big bucks and lots of publicity.
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Feb 15, 2003 08:17PM)
Ellen says: "Well, I'm definitely not in love with him (Blaine) but his "character" has gotten him on national tv/"

Hmmm, well, I'm not in LOVE with Charles Manson, either, but his character has got him on national TV, too.

That's HARDLY a standard to judge someone by!
Message: Posted by: Jonatan B (Feb 16, 2003 12:17AM)
On a TV-Show, David Blaine pulled his heart out, you could see his skin when he dig inside the stomach. Real fun.

Did he invent this trick? :huh:
Message: Posted by: Pablo Tejero (Feb 17, 2003 06:02AM)
[quote]
On 2003-02-16 01:17, Jonatan B wrote:
On a TV-Show, David Blaine pulled his heart out, you could see his skin when he dig inside the stomach. Real fun.

Did he invent this trick? :huh:
[/quote]

Of course not. This kind of trick, more or less is use to fool people, by psyquist doctors that solve health problems just with their hands.

And about if stage magic is less personal than close up magic and so on. Well, i donīt think that say everytime "hey you... watch" it is personal magic. When i see Blaine performing his "close up" magic, i remember myself doing magic for my friends, not doing a real close up magic sesion or stage sesion.

Of course, it depends in what you like. But i know a lot of people not magical, who think is more magical, more killer see for example David Copperfield on a stage, than one magician doing them a two card monte on their faces.

But as always... thatīs just my opinion

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Turk (Feb 18, 2003 11:49PM)
Hey, limhanchung,

Q: You asked "which Blaine trick is original"?

A: Please, don't make me laugh when my lips are chapped.

Seriously, David Blaine is a "good" performer with his own personality. He is not my cup of tea, but he has his own schtick and he seems to entertain those for whom he performs.

Like many magicians, as I see him perform, I am saying to myself: "I know how he did that; I can do that; I've done the same thing to others for years, etc., etc., etc."

Sure he uses "old chestnuts" and known (to magicians) gaffs. Might there just be a little bit of jealousy and envy amoung magicians because he has national exposure and is making big bucks...and I can do the same thing..So, why aren't I famous and making money?

I don't begrudge David any of his wealth and fame. He worked to get to where he is....and he hasn't exposed magic (to the layman) in his rise to fame. Rather, he has exposed magicians to the fact that he can do "dumb tricks", use little or no originality, do these tricks entertainingly well (from a layman's point of view) and make money and have fame at the same time.

Originality? He never claimed originality. Basically, he takes "off the shelf" magic gimmicks and gaffs and performs them well enough for an appreciative lay audience.

As I said at the beginning, I don't like his presentation (it's not "me") but I certainly don't begrudge him for his presentation and "being able to pull it off".

Turk
Message: Posted by: Donnay (Feb 19, 2003 05:57AM)
I think this thread you should be locked now as we all know and should now understand that Mr. Blaine is not original but he may be a disputed good, great, or average performer. What i say is good luck to him.
Message: Posted by: etrigan69 (Dec 27, 2006 02:36AM)
Well, this is not going to be a good first post for me.I'm an old man who is just getting in to magic. I have been a musician most of my life. I see a lot of parrallels with magic. Here is an unfortunate one.

Here is an old gutarist joke.

Q: How many gutarists does it take to play a solo?
A: All of them. One to play it and the rest to say "Ah, it's O.K. but I could have done it better".

Same thing here. This guy obviously tapped into something no one else was doing at the time. He had the drive it took to get a T.V. contract and then showed a lot of people a side of magic they hadn't seen before. Is he the best? The most original? Nope! Nor does he claim to be. He put it out there for the T.V. audience and they have responded. The real question all of you should be asking is "what is he doing that I'm not that is connecting with such a large amount of people?"

As fellow "magicians" or "performers" you should be very thankful that guys like David Blaine and Chris Angel have found a way to present magic to a younger, hipper crowd. Not to mention inspire a lot of new people tobecome interested in your art form.

Maybe the one thing that they have figured out is it is better to impress the lay....people (for lack of a better term) than a bunch of fellow magicians. They out number you greatly.

Don't canibilize your peers.

Sorry for the rant but I just find this thread very ugly.
Message: Posted by: Mark Wilden (Dec 27, 2006 11:50PM)
> do these tricks entertainingly well (from a layman's point of view)

In my opinion, the "layman's" point of view is the only one that matters!

///ark