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Topic: A presentation idea for comments
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 21, 2007 09:50AM)
Not sure if this is the right area but anyway here goes an idea I am playing with.

A banquet type setting with ten tables of ten people each.

The food has been served and tables are cleared witing for the MC to begin the evenings events, all of a sudden on cue, one person at each table (that has been there all along chatting with the table)remove their jackets and stand up.

All ten of these people now standing is a magician, dressed the same, the music begins and a deck of cards is displayed in unison.

They all break into a routine (all doing the same routine) involving coins, cards and some fire (flash paper)leaving the remnants of each effect on the table (signed card, torn card, centavo, sponge ball)after each effect.

They perform 8 effects (10-15 min), finishing at the same time and turn and leave (disappear), nothing else said, leaving everything on the table for examination and discussion.

What are your thoughts on this idea of a performance?
How magical of an experience would this offer?
Would it generate a lot of coversation after the group of Magi left?
Would it be remembered?

Just an idea of creating memorable magical experiences.
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (Feb 21, 2007 10:05AM)
It's an interesting idea, but it seems to me that it would be exceptionally difficult to choreograph, especially if it ran perfectly synchronized, which it would have to to meet your criteria; pattering would also be an issue, everyone would drown each other out. I tried something similar with a friend, but we drowned each other out, even saying the same exact thing.
Message: Posted by: Lyndel (Feb 21, 2007 10:17AM)
I agree. This would be interesting, but would be a logistical nightmare.

The performers would have to be all very well rehearsed to keep up with each other - but even being well rehearsed wouldn't guarantee unforseen incidents.

Because of the nature of close-up magic, there's always a chance that a spectator will not promptly return a card when asked to, cooperate as anticipated, or understand directions - thus throwing the timing off...


Lyndel
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Feb 21, 2007 10:35AM)
That's all assuming it is done with speaking roles. Choreographed to music it stands a better chance, but it still seems like a financial disaster. Clever, though.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 21, 2007 10:45AM)
The timing I think, during the performance is not so important. I kinda like the fact that ten pieces of flash paper would be going on at relatively different times. This adds the " hey he is doing the same thing over there, I gotta ask my friend at that table about the effect afterwards".

The magi would stand silnt untill all were finished.

Yes, the coreography would be tough but so was The Phantom of the Opera and they pulled it off.

Possible yes, practice tons, worthwhile financially as a performance, definately.

More thoughts would be great.

Will//
Message: Posted by: dgiancaspro (Feb 21, 2007 10:45AM)
I could see this working with a manipulation routine. This would require zero audience participation which is going to be one of the big variables in getting things synchronized.

Dave
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 21, 2007 02:41PM)
Interesting...
multiple manipulators.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 21, 2007 03:55PM)
Certainly interesting and creative.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 21, 2007 05:06PM)
Interesting and creative but I don't think it is a workable idea. Reminds me too much of the hidden stripper scenerio and also why would anyone want something like that?
Message: Posted by: Kent Wong (Feb 21, 2007 05:37PM)
What would it cost to hire 10 magicians to sit and chat at separate tables (remember, time is money whether they are peforming or not), and then have each of them stand up to perform a synchronized manipulation routine, in the round, for 15 minutes? By the time you also factor in rehearsals (and yes, the magicians will want to get paid for that time as well), the costs can really start to skyrocket.

Let's assume that each magician is going to charge an hour's worth of time for the evening and an extra hour for rehearsal. Even at a low $150.00 per hour, that's a total cost of $3,000.00. I don't know of many clients who are willing to pay $3,000.00 for 15 minutes of magic.

For that kind of money, the client should be able to get a really good platform show that runs about an hour. But then again, I can only speak for the markets that I am familiar with. Things may be different elsewhere.

Kent
Message: Posted by: Daryl -the other brother (Feb 21, 2007 05:39PM)
Creativity wise, I like it. On the marketing and financial side I don't see it paying off. Selling the idea of ONE magician is hard enough but now multiply that by TEN. Marketing is also limited to "Events" or timed seating since the shows have to be done at the same time and finding a price that's acceptilble to the owner and 10 magicians would be a good trick in itself! :)
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 21, 2007 07:56PM)
Hmmmmmm....
Message: Posted by: Mediocre the Great (Feb 22, 2007 09:54PM)
Can I come to the rehearsal?
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Feb 22, 2007 10:20PM)
Agreed, interesting and creative...but wow expensive. At my rate (which is pretty cheap) - and 1 hour minimum charge mind you, this would run the event planner $1500.00.

Now...lets switch things up a bit and lets say this was an event that had a "Magical" theme to it, where there'd maybe be an opportunity for a quick stage act at some point also. Then it'd be something of scale where there'd be a budget for it. But for the sounds of it. 20 mins max of performing time for 1500$ is a bit much for most folks I gather.

Again though...I like the idea.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 08:00AM)
Ok, so maybe this is a way to begin a magical event.

Perhaps the ten performers will then do a stage show, or card manipulation routine on stage or....?

I was thinking that ten people would be selected and specially trained. Perhaps training ten amateurs to do one routine exceptionally well, hence avoiding the rates of the higher paid professionals. Is this ethical?

Will//
Message: Posted by: Lyndel (Feb 23, 2007 08:38AM)
You know where I see this working Blink? At a magic club banquet.

The magician at each table who is in on it - all dressed alike - and the MC at some point during the evening directing everyone's attention to the magician at their table wearing the white tux, or tux t-shirt, or how ever you costume them... The stage lights go black, the music starts, and the close-up table magic begins!

This would be somewhere that the cost would be minimal because you could probably find guys in the club willing to donate their time. Getting them all together to rehearse prior to the event might be a bit more challenging.


Lyndel
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 09:14AM)
Good idea Lyndel, thanks for the contribution.

I haven't been to any large magical gatherings yet however will keep this in mind when I attend CAM.

I'll enter the close up competition with it....hehe

So let me pose a question....

How long is long enough for a perfomance at a table? I originally said 10-15 min however since the magi is working only one table, can the time be extended without the spectators getting magic overload?

Would extending the performace to 30 min add value?

I'm also thinking that the table could be nicely preloaded, centavo under the centerpiece for S&S as a basic example or a card stuck under a chair for a nice revelation during the performance.

Thanks for the input folks, I love brainstorming new ideas. Might even make it happen.

Will//
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 23, 2007 11:27AM)
It may only be me but the idea is disturbing. Outside of military formation when I see men acting in unison it comes across as very feminine and there has never been a context beyond the military that didn't give me that feeling. I think that ten magicians rising and removing their coats at the same time wouldn't be magical entertainment it would be distracting as one would be looking from one magician to another and I doubt it would be enjoyable. As for it being a new idea I believe I've seen something like this done before on a smaller scale and the result was people were saying "I had no idea what was happening" rather than "gee that was good magic". There are reasons some things don't happen.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 12:16PM)
"It may only be me but the idea is disturbing"
ummmmm yup, probably just you, hehe

I don't know about the use of the word feminine in this context.
I have never looked at magic having a feminine or masculine side.

See, I look at it like this, Magic is making a resurgance once again thanks to the you know who's of television land. As well, it is coming back in a new way. new ways to present old concepts and ideas. We don't see much of linking rings anymore however we are starting to see linking key rings, old concept, new presentation.

What I am looking to do is present a magical experience in a new way with a sense of granduer, as opposed to the traditional top hat, wand, rabbit and stage.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 23, 2007 12:59PM)
I must have missed something, who is causing a resurgance in magic from being on TV? Blaine is pretty much done so it can't be him, wait, Criss Angel is active, got it. To you it is granduer, to me it is chorus boys doing magic.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 23, 2007 01:17PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-21 16:55, Frank Starsini wrote:
Certainly interesting and creative.


[/quote]

To magicians, NOT to people.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 02:19PM)
Mr. Santa. perhaps you could explain to me why after nearly every performance I do the names of Blaine and Angel surface in conversation?

They have brought magic back into the public eye and our homes via a NEW performing style. I don't advocate how they do what they do or why, but they sure make thousands of times what I make performing my craft.

I have never been asked, "hey, Mr Magic, you know that guy Roth? ever seen the one where....?

YouTube is full of sixteen year olds performing various effects marketed by newer magicians(very poorly mind you) but has this age demograph always been attracted to magic eg in 1975???

Forums are full of people asking about Sinful and asking how to levitate.
Was coin bite sold in the hundreds ten years ago?

Doug Henning appeared on TV bringing Magic back into the household and quickly became a household name (like Blaine and Angel). I highly doubt you would make the same comments about Mr. Henning.

The whole thing here is to be creative, and try something new.
A new style of performance.
Perhaps something that hasn't been done before that would leave a really impactful, positive, magical experience.
Like 100 people skipping double dutch on a dark stage with glow in the dark skipping ropes all to the music of an electronic orchestra accompanied by Metallica.Tough to coreograph, yes. Experience definately.

Look at Stomp as an example.
Two guys walk into an office in New York somewhere, and say "Hi, I want to drum on these here garbage cans as a broadway show and I can do really neat rythms with these Zippo lighters." There are now 3 Stomp companies in UK and 3 in North America performing for the last 15years. (still with garbage cans)

Dannydoyle, is that really going to be your contribution to this topic?

This is supposed to be creative for magicians, this is a magicians forum.
Look up top, Magicians HELPING Magicians.
If you don't want to contribute constructively then don't post.

Will//
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 23, 2007 02:27PM)
Fitzkee did something similar on stage in his famous stage magic show--a show which was almost universally panned, and made many question the overall value of his theories.

The Grand David company did something similar with ten magicians on stage doing the newspaper tear at once, if I remember it correctly.

The Show Girls of Magic all do a dancing cane routine together, which actually seems to work very well as entertainment--but six lovely girls in skimpy costumes dancing to music and each charming a big stick into a dance is pretty decent fun in my mind.

But as magic, it wasn't their strongest bit.

That sort of thing to me is interesting, but the problem it has is that it sort of cheapens all the effects. If ten people in the same room can all do the same thing, then how rare, strange, difficult, or special can it be?

For ten magicians to all get together and study for something that will only be done if at all, very rarely, and pay--of necessity--very little, seems strange to me.

How do you sell something like this to a company--without the benefit of a big name and references from other companies or video of a similar event?

I don't see this as a commercial venture at all. If it happens, it would probably be at a magic event like a club banquet or convention.

If that went really well, and you got good video footage of the event, then you might be able to sell it to a company. It might work best, in that case, if the performers all used a trick to introduce a new product or present a new marketing scheme at a sales meeting or customer banquet.

Even so, I think it reduces magic and helps turn magicians into interchangeable
units. "I need three close up guys and a stage guy." That's not the way I like to see magicians marketed.

Magic as a commodity, or as a vehicle to sell unrelated ideas is not evil or unethical, but it sure is not my idea of advancing an art form.

Magic should be unique, and give expression to the individual that is presenting it.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 02:50PM)
"Even so, I think it reduces magic and helps turn magicians into interchangeable
units"

Definately not my intent.

I thank you for references in your post and for the thoughtfull insight on why this won't work.

See, I have been offered $28,000 for three shows if I can pull it off. It has to be unique, can't go longer than 30 min and a new product has to be incorporated into the show.

No money in it.....have you tried?
There obviously is money in it.

So I ask for creative input in a place that I consider to be a wealth of information and skilled professional around the globe.

Maybe, I should stick to walkaround for free beer.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 23, 2007 03:33PM)
I guess you were looking for comments in agreement with your idea rather than those contrary to it. I'll keep that sensativity in mind for the future. Oh, Santa is the first name not last. The only magician currently on TV to my knowledge is Angel, Blaine isn't on the radar any longer. I frequently have people bring up Houdini, does that make him a valid performer of todays age? Seems myself and a couple others don't find the idea as great as you do, sorry about that. Oh, Henning is never brought up in conversations I have with people, Copperfield is though.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 04:21PM)
There is a difference between criticism, constuctive criticism, telling me it won't work and telling me why it won't work.

"I think that ten magicians rising and removing their coats at the same time wouldn't be magical entertainment it would be distracting as one would be looking from one magician to another and I doubt it would be enjoyable."

People looking from one magician to the other creates wonder and anticipation. One of the great parts of an opener. What are they doing and what is going to happen next. It commands attention.

I never thought the idea was great. My intent was to take constructive criticism and contributions to POSSIBLY make a great happening.

So far I have received:

Too expensive to put together for a fair price
Difficult to choreograph/logistics
Might work with card manipulation
Clever, creative, interesting
Might work at a magicians banquet
Some interesting references of those that have tried a similar structure
It may impact magic in a negative way...and why

None of which are in agreement in any way and when they offer criticism it is constructive.

Henning brought a dying art back into the home. Fact.
Blaine did the same thing and did it on the streets.
Angel kept it going with extreme effects.

My idea is not great.
Yet.

The director of promotions is my old school friend and a lover of magic. If I can come up with a show I can pitch the idea and maybe they will go with it. I have two years to work on it.

Or, they might just hire Blaine. I hear he is out of work.
Message: Posted by: TheCaffeinator (Feb 23, 2007 04:39PM)
What are you trying to acheive? What impact do you want this to have on the audience? At each table, something is going on...but it is the same thing. So...are the people at each table supposed to be focussing on what is going on at their table or are they supposed to focus on what is happening at the table next to them? Or are they supposed to focus on "their magician," but be peripherally aware of the others? Again, to what end? To be impressed with the individuals acts of magic themselves or with the ability to arrange this display of "synchronized magic" (and I do believe it would be impressive effort)? If each table isn't supposed to "care" about the others, what is the point? If each table is supposed to care about the others, then to what end?

One thing that came to mind as I was thinking about your idea was those cellphone-coordinated "mob" events where a group of people suddenly show up somewhere simultaneously, perform some predetermined action, then suddenly disperse. How might that be relevant to what you are doing (bearing in mind that the magician is going to be a "stranger" at each of the tables...an odd-man out, if it is, say a banquet for a business or organization in which everyone knows each other)?

Also, consider a three-ring circus. You have three different locations in which something is happening, but there is a different thing happening at once. The audience chooses to watch what they want...or what is convenient for them to watch (i.e., the most visible). How might this be relevant to what you are thinking of, if at all?

Just a few things to think about...
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 23, 2007 05:07PM)
LOL! Hire David Blaine! Good one man, you are alright Blink....get Blaine to do a show...man...
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 23, 2007 05:08PM)
Thank you very much.
The questions posed make me think deeper about the experience and almost put me there as a lay person.

I am after creating an experience on a bigger scale. Doesn't mean they have to do the same effects. The first bit of magic is some guy that was sitting at the table the whole time or maybe they appear in a puff of smoke...

The mob events you talk about create a real experience and a thought of "wow, what was that that just happened."

Kinda like magic.
Thanks again for the thought generating questions.
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 23, 2007 06:55PM)
Most of my comments were on the artistic merits, and on the difficulties of selling such an idea.

If you have a client interested, and with the money, you can certainly pull this off in a reasonable and satisfactory manner.

At $1500 bucks per performer for three fifteen to thirty minute shows, you still have $1300 for props and your own profit, and can hire top-notch local guys.

In that situation, sell the *** shows.

You can make it work well enough to please your client.

Never, ever, say no to found money like that. What is the worst that can happen if it doesn't work so well? You may lose future bookings, but that isn't so awful. Put together the best show you can for the money. GTFM.

Perhaps you only need the performers to open and close with the same dramatic effects, streamers, fire, sparks, liquid, etc., and then closing with a snow storm.

They can each do their own best magic for the rest of the time. Perhaps you can end with a visually stunning stage effect to kick off the stage show and awards, sales presentation or what have you, or have snow makers filling the room with flakes as the lights focus on the stage show.

Something like Jason Latimer's laser effect, or an elevator production of the main speaker, or a car production (were that the product) would work very well.

You needn't put the magicians at the table for dinner. You may have the lights dim and something happening on the stage, and when the lights go back up, magicians in tuxes and masks or other costumes (keep that simple so you don't go spending a lot on costumes) are standing at each table.

I think this shouldn't be hard to put together at all, if you have the money and the client.

Making a client's idea come true is a creative challenge that you should have a lot of fun completing.
Message: Posted by: jlibby (Feb 23, 2007 09:25PM)
I might as well jump into the fray!

Blink, if you've been offered $28,000, then DO IT!

A few things to think about:

Don't hire amateurs; for this kind of money you should be hiring people who know what they're doing.

I think 15 minutes would be too long; I think 7 to 8 minutes would preferable, but your client may not agree.

I wouldn't have the magicians just start cold; that would confuse people and it would take them a couple of minutes to catch up. I would have an emcee kick it off saying something like "Ladies and gentlemen, get ready to experience the magic of Bubbly Shampoo!"

Personally, I think this is a cool, wild idea. Good luck with it and keep us posted!

See ya!
Joe L.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 24, 2007 09:54AM)
I have two years to prepare an experience and the pitch.

I like the ideas Whit. Especially the ending with a snowstorm.

Thanks for the input folks. I am a little more positive about moving forward with this idea now.

A lot of work will go into this and I may be looking for consultants in the next couple of months. PM me if you might be interested.

A room of 100 key shareholders finish dinner.
MC starts to talk about the evenings events to come.
An interruption mid sentence and..
Lights out.
Complete darkness.
Music plays.
Lasers dance around the room.
A flash of fire (permits granted for fire dept.)
Bring up the house lights and...
Each table has a magi ready to perform.


This is getting good. It's already miles ahead of where the original idea was.

Feel free to add or subtract
Message: Posted by: Daryl -the other brother (Feb 24, 2007 12:33PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-24 10:54, blink_inc wrote:

I may be looking for consultants in the next couple of months. PM me if you might be interested.[/quote]

I'm available. My fee is $27,000. :)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 24, 2007 01:08PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-23 15:19, blink_inc wrote:
Mr. Santa. perhaps you could explain to me why after nearly every performance I do the names of Blaine and Angel surface in conversation?

They have brought magic back into the public eye and our homes via a NEW performing style. I don't advocate how they do what they do or why, but they sure make thousands of times what I make performing my craft.

I have never been asked, "hey, Mr Magic, you know that guy Roth? ever seen the one where....?

YouTube is full of sixteen year olds performing various effects marketed by newer magicians(very poorly mind you) but has this age demograph always been attracted to magic eg in 1975???

Forums are full of people asking about Sinful and asking how to levitate.
Was coin bite sold in the hundreds ten years ago?

Doug Henning appeared on TV bringing Magic back into the household and quickly became a household name (like Blaine and Angel). I highly doubt you would make the same comments about Mr. Henning.

The whole thing here is to be creative, and try something new.
A new style of performance.
Perhaps something that hasn't been done before that would leave a really impactful, positive, magical experience.
Like 100 people skipping double dutch on a dark stage with glow in the dark skipping ropes all to the music of an electronic orchestra accompanied by Metallica.Tough to coreograph, yes. Experience definately.

Look at Stomp as an example.
Two guys walk into an office in New York somewhere, and say "Hi, I want to drum on these here garbage cans as a broadway show and I can do really neat rythms with these Zippo lighters." There are now 3 Stomp companies in UK and 3 in North America performing for the last 15years. (still with garbage cans)

Dannydoyle, is that really going to be your contribution to this topic?

This is supposed to be creative for magicians, this is a magicians forum.
Look up top, Magicians HELPING Magicians.
If you don't want to contribute constructively then don't post.

Will//

[/quote]

I love when people don't get the answer they are looking for they scream we are supposed to HELP.

Well telling the truth helps sorry if you don't like it.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 24, 2007 01:18PM)
I sense a heckler in the crowd.
(magi prepares comeback line)
(magi doesn't waste his time)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 24, 2007 01:43PM)
Well here is one.

For a magician, you have a lot of ¨fantasy land¨ posts.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 24, 2007 03:55PM)
Isn't it great.

Fantasy and dreaming the impossible is what drives innovation and forward progression of industry, including the art that we all practice.

Imagination is what we hope all of our spectators have in order for us as performers to bring a little fantasy into their lives if even for a moment.

Imagination and creativity is obviously something you lack. Which makes me wonder what you have contributed to the art with your 5062 posts.

If we were in the boardroom and I was leading a brainstorming session not unlike this one, I would ask you to leave the room.
You are not contributing to the evolution of an idea.
You are discouraging open thought, and still have not provided any constuctive criticism.

This is the second post of mine that you have done the same thing.

If you don't have anything to contribute then just don't.
Inner circle my ass.
Message: Posted by: Daniel White (Feb 25, 2007 02:24AM)
Magi-plural
magus-singular
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Feb 25, 2007 11:26AM)
Dang Blink, you really consider yourself a forward thinking artist! Could be the problem. I have this image of the last part of Blazing Saddles with magicians.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 25, 2007 12:38PM)
Brainstorming questions consist of ideas you may not like. For instance reality.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Feb 25, 2007 01:26PM)
Here's some thoughts that may help somewhat.
The fact that there will be magicians performing at tables should be on the schedule or invitations.


A room of 100 key shareholders finish dinner.
MC starts to talk about the evenings events to come.
Lights [b]dim[/b].
[b]"Let the magic begin!".[/b]
Music plays (softly and some folks may want to dance at this point.)
Lasers dance around the room....
[b]and and spotlights appear on five(?) magicians, standing at five(?) tables.[/b]

Magicians will travel from table to table performing thier own routines.
Message: Posted by: blink_inc (Feb 25, 2007 08:08PM)
Done.

Will//
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

P.S.

Step 1./ Dreamer - No idea is wrong, write it all down, blue sky and pigs can fly.
Step 2./ Realist - Look at the dreamer ideas from a realistic point of view
Step 3./ Critic - Criticize the idea from all angles i.e Time Cost Quality
Step 4./ Take the now refined idea and go back to step 1 with it.

It worked for Walt Disney, and we were only at step one.
I'll take care of the rest.
Thanks for finishing this up Jaz
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 26, 2007 12:03PM)
Well that is my favorite example. Your right and trying to eliminate the critical part, but that aside for a moment,when it was done by these companies, they had a hand picked group of very creative people to work with. They knew the framework when they started. Which was left out of many of your posts. Leaving them to look simply like dreams from a dreamer.

Not your fault, it is just that without the information you put forth now, it looks like dreams only.