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Topic: Best ESP effect
Message: Posted by: teejay (Mar 27, 2007 03:33AM)
I know that BEST is relative
I have started looking at ESP cards and I am looking for a GOOD mentalist
effect If you could say what you think is a good one, it will give me an
idea where to start
Please say if the effect is mind reading, prediction or other
Cheers
TJ
Message: Posted by: Al Straker (Mar 27, 2007 04:39AM)
Here are some sources for mental effects with ESP cards.

Try Maven's Videomind series for 2 excellent effects with ESP cards.

Also see Sean Taylor's Symbology Deck instruction booklet (which is more like a book of effects) for an array of ESP card effects. Lastly the booklet that comes with Michael Murray's Beyond ESP is another good resource. Some of Taylor's and Murray's ones require a marked ESP deck.

Better than all of these would be to come up with something original that has a plot you can sell with your personality. My favourite ESP symbol effect is a very simple one I came up with (adapted from known efefcts and principles). It is so simple that magicians would probably turn their nose up at it. It uses the ESP poker chips (recently released) combined with the Gilbreath principle as normally applied to an effect where you tear 5 business cards in half. This effect is often known as "Last two cards match" or "Will the cards match". I introduce it by saying "We are going to make a statement to the universe and see if it is listening...". I then go into an intention creates reality type premise for the effect. It appears very clean in that the spectators handle everything and make all decisions through the effect.

Hope these references help.

Cheers,
Al
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Mar 27, 2007 06:39AM)
Look here :)
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=182876&forum=15
It really got ME thinking.
:cheers:
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Mar 27, 2007 07:09AM)
Reading minds is where it starts with me. I like how Richard Osterlind call cards on his volume 2 of Mind Mysteries. But he uses playing cards. He does show a good rountine using ESP cards on volume 3 of Easy to Mater Mental Miracles.
Message: Posted by: Roger Kelly (Mar 27, 2007 07:33AM)
Personally, I don't think this can be beaten:

http://www.astormagic.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=28&osCsid=982b8eeffe66ef704ea90afcaba3c0e4

It's not cheap, but the workings are truly amazing and you can repeat (once) it with a different result.
Message: Posted by: rgranville (Mar 27, 2007 08:06AM)
As you alluded, the "best" effect with ESP cards is the one that works best for you... My favorites are Max Maven's Symbalance (on his dvd [i]VideoMind Phase 2[/i]) and Richard Osterlind's ESP Card System (in his book [i]The Very Modern Mind Reader[/i] and also on his dvd [i]Mind Mysteries[/i] Vol. 7 I believe).

:banana:
Message: Posted by: Looch (Mar 27, 2007 10:16AM)
Allow me to direct your attention here...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=182876&forum=15&post=4768813

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=182093&forum=15
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Mar 27, 2007 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-27 11:16, looch wrote:
Allow me to direct your attention here...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=182876&forum=15&post=4768813

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=182093&forum=15


[/quote]


I second and third that ....good stuff, direct and mostly simple. Great price for the info contained.
Message: Posted by: teejay (Apr 2, 2007 02:08PM)
Thanks for all that info
I'm starting to examine them all
Thanks again
TJ
Message: Posted by: leondo (Apr 2, 2007 04:59PM)
You may be interested in my complete review of Dan Tong's ESP found here:

http://www.magictalk.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi

Ted L
Message: Posted by: teejay (Apr 2, 2007 06:33PM)
Nice one, Ted
Thanks
TJ
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Apr 2, 2007 07:55PM)
Having purchased tons of ESP matching routines...and trying them all in the real world...my favorite is John George's "Perfect ESP". It is not "on the market" so to speak...you can only get it from his lectures...and if you contact him personally. (www.johngeorge.com)

It is perfect for the strolling magician...VERY easy...VERY convincing...VERY open handling...and no sticky tape, adhesives, or R/S. I saw John kill with this at The Magic Castle one week when we did close up there...it really got an awesome response...he was kind enough to share it with me...and only recently started releasing this on a limited basis.

This is a real "gem" as far as I am concerned...I own 5 sets!

I hope this helps,
Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (Apr 2, 2007 08:04PM)
Cody... Thank you for the info. I trust your knowledge and experience, and thus I must search for this one.
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Apr 9, 2007 02:27PM)
I want to second Cody Fisher on this effect by John George. I've seen him do it on stage (in our 2 man show) and close-up/walk around. Plays very strong. He's been out of town for the last week and a half so he'll be getting back today and answering any questions you all may have.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Sep 15, 2008 04:20AM)
Any more on this?
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Sep 15, 2008 09:33PM)
I'm happy to suggest my own "Bob's Your Uncle" effect for consideration here, a close simulation of the Rhine ESP-card-matching protocol (where the audience member does all the matching, and gets to take the credit). [url=http://www.deceptionary.com/mindsights.html"]Widely praised by working mentalists[/url], this version is simple to perform, closely adheres to the Rhine protocols, and uses no extra/gaffed cards or gimmicks of any kind. Just the ten cards. It's fully repeatable, which is good because audiences invariably want to see it again!

If you prefer the reverse effect, where the entertainer does the matching, I can also recommend Peter Nardi's "Perfect ESP", which can be found on his and Marc Spelmann's [i]Unexpected[/i] DVD set. I have always felt this to be a somewhat weaker effect, but this is a very clever (and also simple) version of it, again using no gaffs or duplicates.
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Sep 16, 2008 01:15AM)
ESP cards are cool!
I love Triception that CCD taught me.

Cassidy has a cool one "The Zener Effect."

Jheff Ponncher has a neat book of three effects called "The Symbol Act"

The booklet that comes with the Beyond Esp 2 cards has solid stuff in it and the Submodalities DVD by Murray et al will keep you busy for a while.

The Bill Cushman symbol thing with the biz card? Super Trippy. Mentalink. Yes indeed.

On the underground side, I think the "Bob Costas Trick" is probably still the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen with ESP cards. It can be easily adapted to playing cards but it works great with Tarot cards and even better with ESP cards.

D
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Sep 16, 2008 03:47AM)
Don,

You think the Bob Costas Trick will ever be released?
Message: Posted by: obijuan (Sep 16, 2008 08:55AM)
Marks Bond, house magician at the safe house in Milwaukee, has a great variation of a classic esp trick!
Message: Posted by: Gordon Fisher (Sep 16, 2008 10:15AM)
The ESP effect on submodalities by Dave humphries is good
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Sep 16, 2008 10:52AM)
Coincidence & Fate is my favorite effect using ESP cards. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Jeff (Sep 16, 2008 12:35PM)
Telepa-Three by Jeff Pierce Magic

Jeff (yes that's me)
Message: Posted by: Looch (Sep 16, 2008 01:26PM)
Plug plug plug Wake up Dr Rhine is on my new DVD for all those wanting to see it performed. Sean Waters called it "The best ESP card routine ever"
Message: Posted by: drswoboda (Sep 16, 2008 02:10PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-16 09:55, obijuan wrote:
Marks Bond, house magician at the safe house in Milwaukee, has a great variation of a classic esp trick!
[/quote]

Mark's a very good guy and magician. Which of his effects are you referring to? Can you describe it a bit more. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: drswoboda (Sep 16, 2008 02:13PM)
I'm working up a version of Mark Strivings "ESP For Fun and Profit" from Mobile Mentalism. I think it will play pretty big, or I hope so.

-David
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 16, 2008 03:32PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-16 13:35, Jeff wrote:
Telepa-Three by Jeff Pierce Magic

Jeff (yes that's me)
[/quote]

I agree. This will work like a very cool remote viewing experiment.

greg
Message: Posted by: coupcoupdaddy (Sep 16, 2008 06:20PM)
Triception for me. It's really the only thing I like to do with an esp deck and I had the honor of showing the intriguing pyramidic principle to John Riggs recently who had some good ideas of its possible origin. Michael Fraughton will be discussing his presentation of Triception in a future publication of his.
Message: Posted by: mrmuji (Nov 14, 2008 08:28PM)
Could any tell me, is John George's "Perfect ESP" the same as the "perfect ESP" in Peter Nardi and Marc Spelmann's Unexpected DVD set?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Nov 24, 2008 05:41PM)
Richard Osterlind has a very nice routine on his DVD series (can't remember which DVD...). But it's REALLY nice, spectator does everything and you have predicted the outcome.

Astor Mental is nice too, but only for parlor/stage... otherwise it might look suspicious.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Nov 25, 2008 05:47AM)
[quote]
On 2008-11-14 21:28, mrmuji wrote:
Could any tell me, is John George's "Perfect ESP" the same as the "perfect ESP" in Peter Nardi and Marc Spelmann's Unexpected DVD set?

Thanks
[/quote]

I also wondered about that... Could someone describe the effect?
Message: Posted by: John C (Nov 25, 2008 01:53PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-15 22:33, ddyment wrote:
I'm happy to suggest my own "Bob's Your Uncle" effect for consideration here, a close simulation of the Rhine ESP-card-matching protocol (where the audience member does all the matching, and gets to take the credit). [url=http://www.deceptionary.com/mindsights.html"]Widely praised by working mentalists[/url], this version is simple to perform, closely adheres to the Rhine protocols, and uses no extra/gaffed cards or gimmicks of any kind. Just the ten cards. It's fully repeatable, which is good because audiences invariably want to see it again!

If you prefer the reverse effect, where the entertainer does the matching, I can also recommend Peter Nardi's "Perfect ESP", which can be found on his and Marc Spelmann's [i]Unexpected[/i] DVD set. I have always felt this to be a somewhat weaker effect, but this is a very clever (and also simple) version of it, again using no gaffs or duplicates.
[/quote]

Ok after I've owned the book for a few years I pulled it out and reread BYU Nice. I have a close up mentalism thing this week and this will be great.

It all seems so obvious but I guess it's just my performers attack of thought.

J
Message: Posted by: merlin1979 (Nov 25, 2008 02:36PM)
One of the best I've seen was at Derren Brown's 'Something Wicked' live show. I think I know how it's done but are any of the 'released' versions the same as or superior to this one, for those that have seen it?
Merlin
Message: Posted by: Looch (Nov 25, 2008 03:34PM)
Merlin
Jazz Mentalism on the Submodalities DVD
Message: Posted by: Machina (Nov 25, 2008 06:28PM)
There is quite a cool ESP card effect in the Beyond ESP deck. It comes with a booklet of different effects, plus the cards allow you to get away with murder(Not really but you know what I mean)
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Nov 29, 2008 12:11PM)
I have to agree with Cody Fisher that John George's Perfect ESP is THE best ESP effect on the market. It literally leaves gasps with the spectators. Absolutely unbelievable!!
Message: Posted by: The Game (Dec 2, 2008 03:38AM)
Where can we find John George's effect?
Message: Posted by: Pit Boss (Dec 2, 2008 07:12AM)
I emailed him, and he said he was sold out and had to get more printed up. He said he would let me know when that happens, and when it does I will resurrect this thread and let everyone know.

JD
Message: Posted by: John C (Dec 2, 2008 07:41AM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-02 08:12, Pit Boss wrote:
I emailed him, and he said he was sold out and had to get more printed up. He said he would let me know when that happens, and when it does I will resurrect this thread and let everyone know.

JD
[/quote]

Thanks. That's why they call you Pit Boss. ;)

J
Message: Posted by: Mesaboogie (Dec 2, 2008 07:46AM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-02 08:12, Pit Boss wrote:
I emailed him, and he said he was sold out and had to get more printed up. He said he would let me know when that happens, and when it does I will resurrect this thread and let everyone know.

JD
[/quote]

ebook ?? Saves on printing and we get it now ! :P
Message: Posted by: Pit Boss (Dec 2, 2008 01:17PM)
[/quote]

Thanks. That's why they call you Pit Boss. ;)

J
[/quote]

That, and the fact that I know my way around a BBQ pit... :coolest:
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Dec 2, 2008 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-02 08:46, Mesaboogie wrote:
ebook ?? Saves on printing and we get it now ! :P
[/quote]
If you purchase the following 3, you're all set:
"Sigma" by Paolo
"Switchcraft" by Elliott Bresler
"The Safwan Papers" by Bryn Reynolds
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Dec 2, 2008 06:58PM)
Quinn has a killer bit in his new book.

J ack

H.o.A-X
Message: Posted by: mindhunter (Dec 5, 2008 05:46PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-02 19:19, Dynamike wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-12-02 08:46, Mesaboogie wrote:
ebook ?? Saves on printing and we get it now ! :P
[/quote]
If you purchase the following 3, you're all set:
"Sigma" by Paolo
"Switchcraft" by Elliott Bresler
"The Safwan Papers" by Bryn Reynolds
[/quote]

Thanks for the mention of TSP, Mike.
An honor to be mentioned with those.

PSSST....Al,you, Al Straker: (you have something on your ear...)

Bryn
Message: Posted by: lejon (Dec 6, 2008 03:00AM)
Not an effect as such,

but Beyond ESP is a must if you wnna play with esp cards.

merlin1979: I don't remeber seeing esp in " something wicked" can you clarify please?
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Jan 25, 2009 02:35AM)
John George's "Perfect ESP" is an adaptation of Larry Becker's effect "ESPitome" from Larry's "World of Supermentalism II". It is absolutely stunning, as is Looch's "Wake Up Dr. Rhine".
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 25, 2009 02:58AM)
For stand up, Dan Tong's version of the 5 CARD MENTAL TEST.
Message: Posted by: merlin1979 (Jan 25, 2009 05:42AM)
[quote]
On 2008-11-25 16:34, looch wrote:
Merlin
Jazz Mentalism on the Submodalities DVD
[/quote]

Thanks Looch. Will check it out. PS have been having fun with your LPI...

[quote]
On 2008-12-06 04:00, lejon wrote:

merlin1979: I don't remeber seeing esp in " something wicked" can you clarify please?
[/quote]

It was in the live show, not on the TV version, but is included in the extras on the DVD version.

Merlin
Message: Posted by: gh256 (Jan 25, 2009 06:42AM)
An ESP effect was in the Derren Brown show "Something wicked". However this was cut from the aired TV show. I think it might of been included in the DVD version under special features, though I could be wrong.

Oh, just noticed this was said in the post above, silly me.
Message: Posted by: Gianni (Jan 25, 2009 02:07PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 03:35, gabelson wrote:
John George's "Perfect ESP" is an adaptation of Larry Becker's effect "ESPitome" from Larry's "World of Supermentalism II". It is absolutely stunning, as is Looch's "Wake Up Dr. Rhine".
[/quote]

Many, many thanks for pointing this out. I had contacted John George about his effect, and was told it is currently out of stock. Then - as we have so often been told - we find there are chestnuts sitting unread in our own libraries.

Gianni
Message: Posted by: ponchito (Jan 25, 2009 02:41PM)
Meir Yedid has RON FROST'S SEEING STARS in his site.
Take a look, is nice
http://www.mymagic.com/frost.htm

Ponchito
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (Jan 25, 2009 02:49PM)
THE FIFTH ELEMENT (will be in my Genius & Madness book).
Message: Posted by: entity (Jan 25, 2009 03:51PM)
How many of those mentioned can be done without having to read marks on the cards?

- entity
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (Jan 25, 2009 04:06PM)
Thomas,

I have two versions of my THE FIFTH ELEMENT- one with marks and one without ANY mark.

Cannot speak for all the other effects mentioned (but some of them I know, and they need marks).
Message: Posted by: Looch (Jan 25, 2009 04:41PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 16:51, entity wrote:
How many of those mentioned can be done without having to read marks on the cards?

- entity
[/quote]

Mine :)
Message: Posted by: Davit Sicseek (Jan 25, 2009 06:09PM)
^Jazz Mentalism can be presented like that. Are you familiar with it? Is yours different?
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Jan 25, 2009 06:10PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 18:48, J.A.Garland wrote:
I have a version that has the following conditions -

Only 10 cards used, 5 different symbols x2.
You always place your card down first, followed by the participant.
The cards are laid down seperately, not in piles or anything.
The participant turns the cards over to reveal the matching pairs.
No switches or forces.

I usually do this with blank business cards, and have the symbols be personalized for each individual so they have more meaning.


[/quote]
And ??

you just took the burden to login and post that to show how smart you are [if we have to believe you] or this can be found in some place ??
Message: Posted by: Davit Sicseek (Jan 25, 2009 06:15PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 19:10, PsiDroid wrote:
you just took the burden to login and post that to show how smart you are [if we have to believe you] or this can be found in some place ??
[/quote]

Chill out bro. Give him time. PDFs don't compile themselves yo.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (Jan 25, 2009 07:33PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 18:48, J.A.Garland wrote:
I have a version that has the following conditions -

Only 10 cards used, 5 different symbols x2.
You always place your card down first, followed by the participant.
The cards are laid down seperately, not in piles or anything.
The participant turns the cards over to reveal the matching pairs.
No switches or forces.[/quote]

[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=280840&forum=218]Me too.[/url]

(See "My Zeneration.")
Message: Posted by: entity (Jan 25, 2009 07:35PM)
I ask because,without glasses my eyesight isn't good enough to read the marks from across the table any more. It would seem odd to put glasses on for something like an ESP card matching routine.

- entity
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Jan 25, 2009 09:23PM)
My "Bob's Your Uncle" uses no marked cards, nor gaffs, nor duplicates, nor stacks, ...
Message: Posted by: Davit Sicseek (Jan 25, 2009 09:38PM)
[quote]My "Bob's Your Uncle" uses no marked cards, nor gaffs, nor duplicates, nor stacks, ...[/quote]

Doug, have you ever thought of performing your effect with 'character' cards rather than ESP symbols? Just imagine the possibilities when the spectator correctly matches, then turns over cartoon drawings of:

Bob - Fanny
Hitler - Stalin
Michael Moore - Penn
Joe 6 Pack - Joe The Plumber
Tom Curise - David Icke
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Jan 26, 2009 12:16PM)
Davit asked:[quote]Doug, have you ever thought of performing your effect with 'character' cards rather than ESP symbols?[/quote]
I [i]have[/i] occasionally used it with symbols other than the Zener variety (one of the benefits of this method is that it is truly impromptu), but I normally do it with ESP cards as part of a larger routine involving same.

But that's just a personal preference; there's no reason at all why other presentations couldn't be equally effective (and baffling). It's absolutely one of my favourite effects; particularly as it bears repetition, something that can't be said for most approaches. And audiences almost [i]always[/i] want to see it again.
Message: Posted by: MrMystery2008 (Jan 27, 2009 11:34PM)
Has anyone got Peter Nardi's effect called "E.S.Perfect"?
I saw the demo video, and it just blew me away completely!

How does that compare with some of the best E.S.P. effects?

Thinking of getting this as part of my mentalism routine. I've been trying to find a review of this on here, but haven't found one yet.
Message: Posted by: Davit Sicseek (Jan 27, 2009 11:47PM)
ESPerfect is good. Worth getting if you do a fair amount of close up. No marks.

It contains the a great comedy line of typical Nardi/Spellman quality... Looch is given the opportunity to win a twenty pound note and places it on the table.

Looch "I've heard of these"
Nardi "These are nice.. Down south, you see a lot of these"
Looch "I've heard of the purple ones.. I wasn't sure it was true"

It's also worth getting just for the box/star joke at the end.
Message: Posted by: MrMystery2008 (Jan 28, 2009 12:05AM)
Thanks for the positive feedback Davit.
I was hoping you can answer some questions for me...
What you see in the demo video, is that whole routine 100% working all the time?
Including the first part where he asks the spectator what she is thinking of, and its actually the card he is holding up.

Does he go through the psychological aspects of the effect on the DVD?
Message: Posted by: Davit Sicseek (Jan 28, 2009 12:48AM)
He goes through the effect in detail, with a bunch of variations and different presentations.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Jan 28, 2009 11:37AM)
I think E.S.Perfect is very clever, but the sudden appearance of the blank cards strikes me far too much as a magic trick (i.e., mental magic) for my taste. And really, it's only the matching of a single card (albeit one known in advance). But again, it's too "pat" for my liking, and (I believe) leaves the audience with no other explanation than "force" (which it is). Also, the cards are gaffed, which means I can't go on and use them for something else. (In other words, it's a "packet trick".)

[And no, the effect as shown in the demo video is not 100%; the first revelation is just chance (though you have close to a 50% likelihood of pulling it off). Only the climax is 100%.]

A much nicer mentalism effect from the Nardi stable is "Perfect ESP". It is, however, a quite different effect from the one primarily being discussed here. In Perfect ESP, the [i]entertainer[/i] does the card matching; I have always found this to be a much weaker outcome than when the participant does so.

At one point, I used Perfect ESP as a lead-in to "Bob's Your Uncle" (using the identical cards, the participant accomplishes the same matching that I have just demonstrated). But I eventually abandoned it, as I found the mixing procedure to be a bit contrived: why are we taking so much care in mixing the entertainer's cards when s/he is going to take them in a chosen order anyway? Still, like "Bob's Your Uncle", it's truly impromptu mentalism, with no gaffs of any kind, thus a very good method to have in one's repertoire.
Message: Posted by: Davit Sicseek (Jan 28, 2009 12:35PM)
Believe it or not, my Corinda arrived in a packet ;)

The first revelation isn't 100%, but the one on the demo isn't the only "perfect" hit from the audiences POV, you have a 60% chance by pure odds, but you can typically add substantially to that percentage by selecting the most popular symbols.

I do agree that it is a bit 'magical'... it is what it is.
Message: Posted by: MrMystery2008 (Jan 29, 2009 02:22AM)
Thanks for the feedback guys. I think its a buy for me. It was pretty much a buy for me all along.

I just hope I don't have to go out and buy any extra cards!

Davit, what do you mean when you said this?
"Believe it or not, my Corinda arrived in a packet"
Message: Posted by: Mesaboogie (Jan 29, 2009 03:46AM)
I believe ESP matching effects should be as simple for the audience to understand as possible.

My routine involves simply asking the spectator to think of a symbol, you read their mind and place one down, face down. They do the same.

This happens 5 times. The cards are turned over and shown to match. It really is as clear and uncontrived as effects can get. No pairing of cards or swapping. You lay down, they lay down, they all match, simple !

Indeed, I used to use marked cards for a number of years to accomplish this and so couldn't really do it across a table at a distance, until I realised I was thinking too much like a magician and had to kick myself several times when I realised WHY I didn't need marked cards, afterall.

I also begin the effect without cards and just naming the symbol the participant is thinking of, similar to Nardi's intro in ESPerfect, but use a subtley to give myself about 90% of a hit, or partial hit. I conclude the effect with the idea of precognition where you predict a symbol ahead of time. The routine lasts about 4 minutes.

All cards are ungaffed and fit snuggly into a wallet. With a well thought out presentation and script, and a very "convincing" performance, this WILL slay an audience. Believe me, I know.

Regards

Andrew
Message: Posted by: El Mystico (Jan 29, 2009 07:28AM)
Vernon's Mental card trick in Stars of magic can be applied perfectly to ESP cards.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Nov 23, 2009 10:24PM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-02 20:55, Cody S. Fisher wrote:
Having purchased tons of ESP matching routines...and trying them all in the real world...my favorite is John George's "Perfect ESP". It is not "on the market" so to speak...you can only get it from his lectures...and if you contact him personally. (www.johngeorge.com)

It is perfect for the strolling magician...VERY easy...VERY convincing...VERY open handling...and no sticky tape, adhesives, or R/S. I saw John kill with this at The Magic Castle one week when we did close up there...it really got an awesome response...he was kind enough to share it with me...and only recently started releasing this on a limited basis.

This is a real "gem" as far as I am concerned...I own 5 sets!

I hope this helps,
Cody S. Fisher


[/quote]

Just down the street Cody, please lemme know if this is ever released.

Thanks

Candin
Message: Posted by: 252life (Nov 21, 2017 12:21AM)
It's out.
Penguin
Message: Posted by: Mister E. (Nov 21, 2017 03:09AM)
Got it today and I think it is very good!
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Nov 21, 2017 03:48AM)
Yeah, it's good. Nice alternative to Zen mentalism et al.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Nov 22, 2017 06:11AM)
You might want to look this up: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=622943&forum=82&23&start=20#2 ...;) Jan
Message: Posted by: Selden (Nov 22, 2017 07:58AM)
I'm not familiar with John George's routine, but I'm going to buy it after reading the reviews. My favorites are Hen Fetch's Symbologic, and Nick Trost's Dream Of The Hermit.
Message: Posted by: thomasP (Nov 22, 2017 08:42AM)
Rhine's revenge is the best I have seen.
Message: Posted by: Ben Blau (Nov 22, 2017 11:28AM)
In case you’re not familiar with it:

https://youtu.be/1MndYkx9BX4

And

https://youtu.be/dmsiaV1TeHE
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 22, 2017 12:37PM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2017, JanForster wrote:
You might want to look this up: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=622943&forum=82&23&start=20#2 ...;) Jan [/quote]
Some beautiful thinking in there, Jan.
Message: Posted by: Mister E. (Nov 22, 2017 01:04PM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2017, JanForster wrote:
You might want to look this up: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=622943&forum=82&23&start=20#2 ...;) Jan [/quote]

If you haven't clicked Jan's link yet, you are missing out on an incredibly generous offer.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Nov 22, 2017 02:38PM)
Thanks for the link and thank you Jan.
Message: Posted by: markymarkmagicuk (May 12, 2019 04:30PM)
Well, the best ESP effect is NOT Smart ESP from Matt Smart! In my opinion!
If you've never seen this, watch a trailer from a dealer. Now I understand that many commercial tricks have multiple outs, but... come on... this is awful. When revealing you "knew" the card stopped on, it's confusing, vague and almost made up on the spot! Being a fan of esp packet effects I was somewhat disappointed with this as a purchase. Still I guess someone likes it as it appears popular!
Not for me!
Message: Posted by: loserdlj (May 22, 2019 10:27PM)
The ESP effect on submodalities by Dave humphries
Message: Posted by: hotjacket (Jul 22, 2019 10:49PM)
Paralabs' Depicting Thoughts - been using it for years and it never fails to impress.
Message: Posted by: Luciole (Oct 9, 2019 03:41AM)
Jazz Mentalism by Dave Humphrey
Shape-up by Max Maven
Symbalance by Max Maven
ESP Stack by Richard Osterlind
Message: Posted by: cbarron (Dec 16, 2019 09:46AM)
Have to mention my own Rhine's Revenge!

https://www.alakazam.co.uk/product-Rhines-Revenge-By-Clint-Barron.html
Message: Posted by: Waters. (Dec 16, 2019 05:05PM)
Or Jazz Mentalism by Dave Humphrey
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Dec 16, 2019 09:33PM)
[quote]On Dec 16, 2019, Waters. wrote:
Or Jazz Mentalism by Dave Humphrey [/quote]

100% agreed. I enjoy “Bob’s Your Uncle” (Doug Dyment) and several other effects but Jazz Mentalism gives me the best ratio of time, impact, and trade-off.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Dec 17, 2019 06:07AM)
I will second Clint's Rhine's Revenge. I've been using it for a long time now, and it is my go-to ESP effect.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Dec 17, 2019 10:52AM)
It's also important to consider the performing context. Will it be used as a close-up/impromptu piece, or as a component of a stage routine?

I've always liked the Zener-symbol-matching sequence:

1) Entertainer matches the symbols chosen by the participant.

2) Participant matches the symbols chosen by the entertainer.

3) Participant matches the symbols chosen by the entertainer, without looking at the symbols (just going by intuition).

To me, this seems likes a nice (and, unlike some, fully motivated) progression, and it also makes the participant the star. The ability to do this fully impromptu, with ungaffed cards (even ten borrowed playing cards, in a pinch), makes it a worker in my world.
Message: Posted by: charlie_d (Sep 28, 2020 03:50PM)
I respectfully disagree with most of you folks, which is good because otherwise I guess there wouldn't be a discussion. :)

After quite a bit of research and experimentation, I think I've found the perfect combination of cards and effect (at least, for me).

First, the best cards are "Naked ESP" by Michael Murray. They come in a set of 10 (plus a couple of extras), so you'll need to buy several sets to get a full deck, if you want the 25-card deck that Rhine used. They also come with the relevant gaff for (imo) the best version of the 5-card matching routine, "Beyond Perfect ESP" by John George. These are great cards, mainly because of the back design. They're plastic, modern, and handle really nicely for the moves that I need to do. Unfortunately, all the backs are the same colour, so the colour contrast of the John George routine doesn't work. This is mostly fine; everything still works - it's just not as visually and "magically" nice as John's version. I also like that they're plain, modern, muted, black and white. I don't like ESP cards with coloured symbols; it's too historically inaccurate for me; they feel like magic props.

The second-best cards imo are the Tenyo ESP cards. They're extremely clever, but they're a bit "too" clever, to the point that it makes things slightly more difficult in performance. But they come with 25 cards, as well as the necessary gaff.

Honourable mention goes to the "marchand de trucs" cards, which are also subtle, but just not as nice as Naked ESP or Tenyo. I was hoping that, since they come in both red and blue backs, that there would be a gaff that would allow the "Beyond Perfect ESP" routine to be done with exactly the right look and feel (five red, five blue, spectator chooses which they use), but the relevant gaff isn't supplied. This is a shame because I think the red/blue display and openness of John's routine are subtle and brilliant, but I strongly dislike using ESP cards with "playing card" backs. I realise the originals that Rhine used actually looked pretty cheesy - they genuinely looked like magic props - but I very much prefer plainer, more "serious" backs, that get as far away from the look of "playing cards" as possible.

I think the five card matching plot is the best ESP card plot. It's simple enough that folks understand it and it's close enough to the original ESP tests to sustain the "ESP" premise. Most tricks with ESP cards have very little to do with the actual ESP tests, which seems pointless to me; why take these mysterious objects that are loaded with history, mysticism, lies and foolishness, and then just do another convoluted card trick?

I like the "Beyond Perfect ESP" five card matching routine because it's the cleanest and most direct version, and - although it has sleights - the sleights are very straightforward. There's a really easy handling (suggested in a Beyond Perfect ESP thread here on the Café) that almost removes one of the two "moves". I use a handling that allows both myself and the spectator to "deal down" our cards, so we're left with a very clean and dramatic five-card matching display on the table. This requires that I start out holding the full 25-card deck, which is fine, because it gives me an extra bit of historically accurate colour when introducing the cards.

I totally agree with Doug that the "spectator is the mindreader" presentation is the best.

ESPissimo and other routines of that type - Jazz Mentalism etc - are great, but don't work for me. I prefer the effect to look the same every time; I want the procedure to be as simple and direct as possible - we each lay down five cards, I go first, when we're done, we turn those cards over and they match. I don't want premature turnover. I want the result to be logically consistent. I don't think it's possible to do the "perfect" esp match - we will always have to sacrifice something, whether it's consistency, sleights, gaffs or whatever. So this isn't perfect, but for me, this specific combo (naked esp cards, beyond perfect esp routine, slightly altered handling) makes the most sense in terms of effect, impact, visuals, historical references and consistency.
Message: Posted by: johnhsawyer (Sep 29, 2020 07:53PM)
Thanks for the recommendation charlie_d. I have been considering the Naked ESP cards for a few months and your post inspired me to go looking for them again. Guess what?!? There is a set called Fully Naked that includes 25 blacks, 25 reds and some gimmick cards. I just ordered a set. :)

https://www.mindfx.co.uk/products/fully-naked-esp-deck-25-reds-25-blacks-additional-fakes

-jhs
Message: Posted by: johnhsawyer (Sep 29, 2020 08:05PM)
Also forgot to include a link to one of my favorite places to get used books who has an original Naked ESP set.

https://usedmagic.myshopify.com/products/naked-esp-cards-michael-murray

-jhs
Message: Posted by: J? (Oct 7, 2020 10:34AM)
Been out of the game a while but coming back I just love Michael Murray's Beyond ESP and the Submodalities dvd. So much strong content there.
Also, there's a lot of good stuff in "Magic With an ESP Deck" by Sam Dalal...
Message: Posted by: ipe (Oct 19, 2020 02:41AM)
None mentioned "Superior Conjunction" by Lewis Jones. What do you think about that one? :)
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Oct 20, 2020 06:14AM)
In which book? Jan
Message: Posted by: ipe (Oct 20, 2020 11:17AM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2020, JanForster wrote:
In which book? Jan [/quote]
Seventh Heaven.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Oct 21, 2020 06:57AM)
Thank you! I will look it up, have it my library :) ... Jan
Message: Posted by: ipe (Oct 21, 2020 07:34AM)
Hi Jan. I'm looking forward to hear your thoughts on it. ;)
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Oct 21, 2020 09:54AM)
Yes, very nice (!), also the alternative for the "usual" bo***m d**l ... still, I would prefer my handling as it looks so clean, no real moves at all, everything happens on the table, nothing in the hands... Jan
Message: Posted by: ipe (Oct 26, 2020 06:20AM)
Hi Jan, I saw the ESPissimo (Italian name? :)) video you kindly shared here on the Café. Your solution is really elegant, I like it a lot!

Have you ever found someone having some suspicions on your non-move? Do you think it require some form of misdirection to be fully deceptive?

From your video I understand you perform the effect minimum 2 times, not counting the cases 1 or 2, right? What if you have case 5 the first time, would you continue a second time?

In case the first time you have a case 4 and the second time a case 2, how do you justify this discrepancy?


Thanks,
Ipe
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Oct 27, 2020 10:51AM)
Case 5 - I would not repeat it (only exception as it is a full hit...). Case 4 and then case 2 is not a problem if you act like, "would you like to see already how good you've done already until now...?" :) ... I never needed (until today) any form of misdirection, in the "worst case", direct eye contact and probably lifting your forefinger on the level of your eyes is really enough... ;) Jan
Message: Posted by: ipe (Oct 30, 2020 05:43AM)
Thank you very much, Jan :)
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Feb 8, 2021 11:19PM)
Ps. I’m a huge fan of this esp deck.

https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7402
Message: Posted by: Mystic Pudding (Feb 10, 2021 10:25AM)
Jazz Mentalism/Rhine's Revenge is my favorite and easy to do.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Feb 15, 2021 04:08PM)
Of course there is no one best effect for everyone it's different; surely a very interesting booklet is "Mind Novas" from Stephen Minch

So many good and clever principles applied to ESP decks, it deserves a good and thourough reading...
Message: Posted by: stevie c (Feb 16, 2021 03:34PM)
I love Jazz Mentalism for it's elegance and simplicity. My only slight gripe with all the ESP routines I've played around with has nothing to do with the routines themselves. It's actually the cards... or more specifically the symbols on them!! I know ESP cards have stood the test of time but I do sometimes wonder how!!

Never once has a spectator been familiar with such a set of cards / symbols when I've introduced them, which I guess isn't particularly surprising as they are pretty abstract. Is this a problem? Maybe not, and I'll continue to use my sets of standard ESP cards.

I recently came across these ESP cards:-

https://blackcatmagic.co.uk/index.php/product/rock-stars-a-substitute-for-esp-cards/

What struck me about this idea is how it may be perceived by a spectator. I think lots of people would definitely find well known rock bands/singers a more tangible concept than five symbols? If you can better stimulate a spectator's interest by using a different premise, perhaps the effect will be even more memorable?

Anyways I've ordered a set of these, as I think they will suit my presentation and style. I wondered what others' thoughts on this approach are?

BW

Steve
Message: Posted by: j100taylor (Feb 16, 2021 03:37PM)
It’s the one you create.

Just kidding!

It’s 4DT.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Feb 16, 2021 03:50PM)
[quote]On Feb 16, 2021, stevie c wrote:
I love Jazz Mentalism for it's elegance and simplicity. My only slight gripe with all the ESP routines I've played around with has nothing to do with the routines themselves. It's actually the cards... or more specifically the symbols on them!! I know ESP cards have stood the test of time but I do sometimes wonder how!!

Never once has a spectator been familiar with such a set of cards / symbols when I've introduced them, which I guess isn't particularly surprising as they are pretty abstract. Is this a problem? Maybe not, and I'll continue to use my sets of standard ESP cards.

I recently came across these ESP cards:-

https://blackcatmagic.co.uk/index.php/product/rock-stars-a-substitute-for-esp-cards/

What struck me about this idea is how it may be perceived by a spectator. I think lots of people would definitely find well known rock bands/singers a more tangible concept than five symbols? If you can better stimulate a spectator's interest by using a different premise, perhaps the effect will be even more memorable?

Anyways I've ordered a set of these, as I think they will suit my presentation and style. I wondered what others' thoughts on this approach are?

BW

Steve [/quote]
I think these turn a mentalism effect into a magic trick.
Message: Posted by: stevie c (Feb 16, 2021 04:47PM)
[quote]On Feb 16, 2021, Martin Pulman wrote:
[quote]On Feb 16, 2021, stevie c wrote:
I love Jazz Mentalism for it's elegance and simplicity. My only slight gripe with all the ESP routines I've played around with has nothing to do with the routines themselves. It's actually the cards... or more specifically the symbols on them!! I know ESP cards have stood the test of time but I do sometimes wonder how!!

Never once has a spectator been familiar with such a set of cards / symbols when I've introduced them, which I guess isn't particularly surprising as they are pretty abstract. Is this a problem? Maybe not, and I'll continue to use my sets of standard ESP cards.

I recently came across these ESP cards:-

https://blackcatmagic.co.uk/index.php/product/rock-stars-a-substitute-for-esp-cards/

What struck me about this idea is how it may be perceived by a spectator. I think lots of people would definitely find well known rock bands/singers a more tangible concept than five symbols? If you can better stimulate a spectator's interest by using a different premise, perhaps the effect will be even more memorable?

Anyways I've ordered a set of these, as I think they will suit my presentation and style. I wondered what others' thoughts on this approach are?

BW

Steve [/quote]
I think these turn a mentalism effect into a magic trick. [/quote]

Surely that would depend on one's presentation Martin, otherwise the implication is that a matching effect could only be considered mentalism if it's performed with cards bearing Zener symbols?

BW

Steve
Message: Posted by: ipe (Feb 17, 2021 11:07AM)
[quote]On Feb 15, 2021, PsiDroid wrote:
Of course there is no one best effect for everyone it's different; surely a very interesting booklet is "Mind Novas" from Stephen Minch

So many good and clever principles applied to ESP decks, it deserves a good and thourough reading... [/quote]
Hi PsiDroid, do you have some specific effects/principles to suggest from that booklet?
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Feb 17, 2021 11:26AM)
[quote]On Feb 16, 2021, stevie c wrote:
I think these turn a mentalism effect into a magic trick. [/quote]

Surely that would depend on one's presentation Martin, otherwise the implication is that a matching effect could only be considered mentalism if it's performed with cards bearing Zener symbols?

BW

Steve [/quote]
I think the props you use are a vital component of good mentalism.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Feb 17, 2021 01:12PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2021, ipe wrote:
[quote]On Feb 15, 2021, PsiDroid wrote:
Of course there is no one best effect for everyone it's different; surely a very interesting booklet is "Mind Novas" from Stephen Minch

So many good and clever principles applied to ESP decks, it deserves a good and thourough reading... [/quote]
Hi PsiDroid, do you have some specific effects/principles to suggest from that booklet? [/quote]

Wtithout being near the book now, I recall having performed - Either Or, DoppleGanger, Genesis II, Quatrain...
Message: Posted by: ipe (Feb 17, 2021 04:57PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2021, PsiDroid wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2021, ipe wrote:
[quote]On Feb 15, 2021, PsiDroid wrote:
Of course there is no one best effect for everyone it's different; surely a very interesting booklet is "Mind Novas" from Stephen Minch

So many good and clever principles applied to ESP decks, it deserves a good and thourough reading... [/quote]
Hi PsiDroid, do you have some specific effects/principles to suggest from that booklet? [/quote]

Wtithout being near the book now, I recall having performed - Either Or, DoppleGanger, Genesis II, Quatrain... [/quote]

Thank you, PsiDroid! ;)
Message: Posted by: fowill (Mar 12, 2021 04:43AM)
There's such an incredible amount of ifferent types of ESP cards and routines. For me, the beat is first to do some research about ESP symbols experiment, Dr. Rhine (there are interesting connections with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle...). In terms of routines after looking at dozens of them, I'm keeping with Ben Blau's Unfazed and Jazz Mentalism (David Humphrey).