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Topic: Coin In Bottle - Original?
Message: Posted by: Jlowhy (May 27, 2007 11:16AM)
Hi everyone, I'm posting this video on BEHALF for a friend who can't post in here because of certain email restrictions for registering in The Magic Café.

This is the description that he has provided for a Coin In Bottle effect that he came up with:

Sealed and Stuck
A factory sealed bottle is shown empty on all sides. The magician borrows a coin and melts it through the factory sealed bottle. Like Slam the coin is stuck inside the bottle too. Everything can be examined

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqmSbSjsSTM[/url]

The video quality is very poor because it's done with a webcam but he says he'll try to get a better video as soon as possible.

On his behalf, I'll like to ask if anyone has seen anything similar in effect, whether this could be in anyway be exactly like what Nick Verna's versions are like? (for those who've seen it)

Thanks alot.
Message: Posted by: BlackDove (May 27, 2007 09:05PM)
Wow that was great! Semms like how e describes thier cibs.
Looks original...since their arn't many factory sealed coin
in bottles anways.
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 27, 2007 10:00PM)
WOW. I wondered how an ACTUALLY "visual" melting could be done. I LOVED it. Especially the sinking. Kinda had that "this is an illusion that it is inside, now it REALLY is" feel.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (May 27, 2007 10:18PM)
That is wild! I have never seen a CIB like that before (and I have seen a ton), so I would say it is original. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Jlowhy (May 27, 2007 11:18PM)
My friend, Ace, is looking into the possibility of marketing the effect if it is original. I'm hoping that someone could point us in the right direction on whom we can approach.

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: tuffnavyrn (May 28, 2007 04:32AM)
Contact Ellusionist and go for it!!! That clip was awesome!
Message: Posted by: Y2John (May 28, 2007 07:45AM)
Looks fantastic, if this is different in method to Nick Vernas then I so go for it! I'd def pick it up.

Your friend could release it himself.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 28, 2007 08:00AM)
To me it looks a lot like passing thru's gimmick.
If that's the case, then I've seen that approach before with liquid.
Message: Posted by: Y2John (May 28, 2007 12:13PM)
But the coin is too big to come back out and they say it can be done signed.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 28, 2007 12:35PM)
It looks like a Passing Thru-like gimmick, which is never ever clean and not easy to work with.

I honestly don't see any "visual" penetration here...None.
All I see is "gravity".

A coin FALLING visually is not the same as a coin penetrating visually.

I do see a lot of movement though, THEN the suggestion of a coin in bottle.
(typical)

I don't see the novelty here.
[b]A Passing Thru-like gimmick...has been done before, with and without liquid.[/b]
I'm convinced, it's a Passing Thru-like gimmick, unless someone who knows can state otherwise.

Jlowhy?
Message: Posted by: Jlowhy (May 28, 2007 08:03PM)
Neither me nor my friend owns Passing Thru. There is a gimmick involved but only to achieve the sinking effect of the coin. My friend has two other versions that do not use gimmicks so it'll satisfy magicians who just want a penetration effect. When my friend gets a better cam, he'll post them out as well.

Additionally, he doesn't see how the gimmick that he uses can be used to achieve Kevin Parker's Passin Thru.

Perhaps you could direct me to sources or videos where variations of Passing Thru has been used to achieve what my friend did. Would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2007 09:25AM)
I suggest you get every coin in bottle you can before you go marketing something.
"OOPS I didn't know", doesn't cut it.
Message: Posted by: matthewmello (May 29, 2007 10:30AM)
I agree with GM. It would be wise to backcheck this and make sure it hasn't been done before. Whether you hire a historian or as GM so brilliantly put it...get familiar with every other CIB out there. hehe.

Matthew Mello
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 29, 2007 11:35AM)
The illusion of a coin appearing inside the bottle, then falling to the bottom is EXACTLY what I feel is valuable in that clip.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2007 12:18PM)
All I see is the coin fall from behind the bottle.
At no point do you ever see the "penetration" occur.

All I see is a coin fall from behind the bottle (where he displays it initially).
It just rides along the backside (where he put it in the first place).
There is no visual change or evidence that the coin ever entered the bottle.
The coin looks exactly as it always did (behind the bottle from the initial display).
It's just not convincing.

It clearly is NOT in the bottle, it doesn't even land at the base naturally.
Not a visual penetration at all, just a visual coin falling obviously OUTSIDE of the bottle.
It just goes behind his fingers.

A coin FALLING visually is not the same as a coin penetrating visually.

I am 99.999% sure that is what you are doing. If so, it's nothing new.

If it isn't what you're doing, best of luck to you.
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 29, 2007 01:56PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 13:18, gmmagic124 wrote:
All I see is the coin fall from behind the bottle.
At no point do you ever see the "penetration" occur.

All I see is a coin fall from behind the bottle (where he displays it initially).
It just rides along the backside (where he put it in the first place).
There is no visual change or evidence that the coin ever entered the bottle.
The coin looks exactly as it always did (behind the bottle from the initial display).
It's just not convincing.

It clearly is NOT in the bottle, it doesn't even land at the base naturally.
Not a visual penetration at all, just a visual coin falling obviously OUTSIDE of the bottle.
It just goes behind his fingers.

A coin FALLING visually is not the same as a coin penetrating visually.

I am 99.999% sure that is what you are doing. If so, it's nothing new.

If it isn't what you're doing, best of luck to you.
[/quote]

The illusion, and it is a perfect one at that, is that it is falling through the water. Try dropping a coin and see if it floats like that in AIR.

Also, the illusion is that it looks like you are just doig what you were just doing with holding it behind the boottle, and that its blown away when it is let go of and it floats down.

What you are saying is likw saying a guy drops a ball from one hand to the other a few times, and then on the third time he drops it and it floats down slowly, and you say so what he is just droping the ball.

The pretense set up in this one is similar to floating a bill but starting with it just clinging to your hand, it isn't untill you let go that the real magic happens.

It looks like it is just held with your hand to make the "illusion" that it is floatin (or in this case in the bottle) and then the PROOF comes when you take your hand away and it floats.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (May 29, 2007 02:04PM)
Nice...
Message: Posted by: shadows (May 29, 2007 02:30PM)
"Wow, how nice.. learning magic in open foruns" - this could be what any layman could have said if reading this. I have to agree with gdw. How can anyone comment in an effect without knowing the secret? I'm not affiliated with the creator in any way, I just have my opinion and I think no one should discuss or try to expose anything just because it looks good, or because that person does not knows how to achieve the effect.
I have no idea how it works, I just think it looks great and that's all it matters.
Correct me, if I'm wrong.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2007 02:44PM)
What illusion?

It doesn't look like it is in the bottle at all.

gdw,
A coin does not float, it FALLS.
Plus, a coin does not fall that way in water. Go ahead, drop a coin in a real bottle of water, then see how it really looks compared to that. (viscosity)

[b]I see the coin falling down the BEHIND the bottle.[/b]
That is what I see.
That is just what I see.

It looks like the coin rides along the back of the bottle.

That is what it looks like to me.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2007 03:24PM)
It just doesn't look convincing to me, that's all.
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 29, 2007 04:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 15:44, gmmagic124 wrote:
What illusion?

It doesn't look like it is in the bottle at all.

gdw,
A coin does not float, it FALLS.
Plus, a coin does not fall that way in water. Go ahead, drop a coin in a real bottle of water, then see how it really looks compared to that. (viscosity)

[b]I see the coin falling down the BEHIND the bottle.[/b]
That is what I see.
That is just what I see.

It looks like the coin rides along the back of the bottle.

That is what it looks like to me.
[/quote]

Geeze, I HAVE dropped money in water, and they FLOAT down just like that. You try it.

Also, try dropping a coin just along the back of abottle and see if it looks like that. You have got to be kidding me if you really think it does.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (May 29, 2007 04:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 15:30, shadows wrote:
"Wow, how nice.. learning magic in open foruns" - this could be what any layman could have said if reading this. I have to agree with gdw. How can anyone comment in an effect without knowing the secret? I'm not affiliated with the creator in any way, I just have my opinion and I think no one should discuss or try to expose anything just because it looks good, or because that person does not knows how to achieve the effect.
I have no idea how it works, I just think it looks great and that's all it matters.
Correct me, if I'm wrong.
[/quote]

Uh, what? Great first post...
Message: Posted by: shadows (May 29, 2007 05:04PM)
It's not a great post, it's just my opinion. And no, I'm not the creator, not his friend, and I don't even know the effect, but if I was not a magician, by this time I would have learned a lot of effects since I registered yesterday. I think that's not positive at all to magic. Sorry but that's the way I think about this thread and others.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (May 29, 2007 05:15PM)
Dude, you are trippin!!!!!

There is no exposure here! Have you been in a closet the last few years buddy? Do you know how much exposure there is on youtube and other places on the net?

This is the best place to show a clip if you want it to remain a secret! Come on man!

Have a look around and you will see what I mean. But don't come on here, scroll down to a random thread, open it and say that people are exposing stuff in your first post on the Café. Gimme a break...
Message: Posted by: shadows (May 29, 2007 05:27PM)
Hart, man... relax a little bit, nobody it talking to you... easy.
I'm just sharing my opinion, the magic Café servers are based in US, US is a free country! There are ton's of exposure on youtube that's right but because their is exposure on youtube we should do it everywhere just because that lamme kid's do it on youtube?
Just my two cents.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2007 05:30PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 17:45, gdw wrote:
Geeze, I HAVE dropped money in water, and they FLOAT down just like that.
[/quote]

Coins don't float, they are made of metal. :)
Go drop a coin for real in water (and film it, then show it) I guarantee you the path it moves is not like that...it will Flip. Throw a coin in a fountain watch the viscosity of the water change its direction and even flip the coin around.

That coin is NOT in the bottle. It doesn't even look like it is.
It does not look genuine at all. It looks like it is behind the bottle.
That is what it looks like. I don't see the big deal in this trick.

Plus, most water bottle are not smooth like that one in the video.
They are ridged and it wouldn't be practical for many.

Go drop a coin in water for real, and film it. Let's see.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2007 05:37PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 18:15, Hart Keene wrote:
Dude, you are trippin!!!!!

There is no exposure here! Have you been in a closet the last few years buddy? Do you know how much exposure there is on youtube and other places on the net?

This is the best place to show a clip if you want it to remain a secret! Come on man!

Have a look around and you will see what I mean. But don't come on here, scroll down to a random thread, open it and say that people are exposing stuff in your first post on the Café. Gimme a break...
[/quote]

Exactly, no exposure here at all.
I honestly stated what I saw in the video does NOT look convincing to me at all.
It looks like the coin is still outside of the bottle the whole time.

He wanted some professional opinions...He got them.
Message: Posted by: Jlowhy (May 29, 2007 08:51PM)
Thank you for your opinions gmmagic124.

The gimmick involved is not a Passing Thru gimmick. It's been confirmed after my friend consulted some people. If there's any similarity to any other CIBs in the market, please inform me, that's precisely what we wish to find out. Whether it's original.

I think perhaps you may find that the video doesn't look convincing because of the quality. My friend will try to get a good one out soon. He also has 2 other variations as well which is purely a penetration effect. He'll be getting the videos out on that too and hopefully that'll satisfy you.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 30, 2007 10:52AM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-28 05:32, tuffnavyrn wrote:
Contact Ellusionist
[/quote]

Good idea.
Contact Ellusionist and double check with them.
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 30, 2007 12:56PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 18:30, gmmagic124 wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 17:45, gdw wrote:
Geeze, I HAVE dropped money in water, and they FLOAT down just like that.
[/quote]

Coins don't float, they are made of metal. :)
Go drop a coin for real in water (and film it, then show it) I guarantee you the path it moves is not like that...it will Flip. Throw a coin in a fountain watch the viscosity of the water change its direction and even flip the coin around.

That coin is NOT in the bottle. It doesn't even look like it is.
It does not look genuine at all. It looks like it is behind the bottle.
That is what it looks like. I don't see the big deal in this trick.

Plus, most water bottle are not smooth like that one in the video.
They are ridged and it wouldn't be practical for many.

Go drop a coin in water for real, and film it. Let's see.
[/quote]

First off, yes, a coin WOULD flip, if it is DROPPED into the water. The illusion here is that it is IN the water, and then dropped down. It does not drop from above the water. You would have to hold the coin under water, and then release it. If I MUST, I will film what it looks like and then post it. Also, even if it DOES flip, in such a short distance when released while completely vertically in a confined area, it will still fall in a similar slow manner.

Complaining on such a semantic level about the way it "falls through the water" is like complaining about how every levitation does not move like if it were really floating in air. No sh ite.

But the illusion is ***ed convincing.

Of course it is not REALLY in side, it's an illusion.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 30, 2007 01:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-30 13:56, gdw wrote:

Of course it is not REALLY in side, it's an illusion.
[/quote]

To me it just doesn't look like it is inside the bottle.
It looks like it is behind the bottle.
It does not fool me one bit.

Send it to Ellusionist...See what they say.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (May 30, 2007 03:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-29 18:27, shadows wrote:
Hart, man... relax a little bit, nobody it talking to you... easy.
I'm just sharing my opinion, the magic Caf� servers are based in US, US is a free country! There are ton's of exposure on youtube that's right but because their is exposure on youtube we should do it everywhere just because that lamme kid's do it on youtube?
Just my two cents.
[/quote]

Once again nobody is exposing anything! I don't know what you are talking about...
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (May 31, 2007 08:26PM)
When will the new video be up?
Message: Posted by: wayno (Jun 6, 2007 12:05AM)
It appears it uses Parker's Passing Thru gimmick. Just handled differently to hold the coin back from falling to the ground, instead of letting it loosely move around. If so, it's not an origional concept, just an origional handling of the gimmick.

However, before even thinking about marketing, you DO need to do some investment into finding out if it is in fact origional. By that, I mean what was already suggested. Purchase all the coin in bottle and ring in bottle effects you can get your hands on. It's the cost of doing business.

Sincerely,
Wayne Stevenson
The SpookClub
Message: Posted by: Jlowhy (Jun 10, 2007 10:27AM)
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hxwh4RCVDI[/url]

My friend just placed up a new video featuring the various versions of his coin in bottle.
Message: Posted by: Chris Oberle (Jun 10, 2007 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-06 01:05, wayno wrote:
It appears it uses Parker's Passing Thru gimmick. Just handled differently to hold the coin back from falling to the ground, instead of letting it loosely move around. If so, it's not an origional concept, just an origional handling of the gimmick.

However, before even thinking about marketing, you DO need to do some investment into finding out if it is in fact origional. By that, I mean what was already suggested. Purchase all the coin in bottle and ring in bottle effects you can get your hands on. It's the cost of doing business.

Sincerely,
Wayne Stevenson
The SpookClub
[/quote]


I agree.

Besides these look way to obvious to me.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Jun 10, 2007 12:56PM)
Thanks for the video, but I'll pass. It doesn't look original or convincing at all.