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Topic: Undo the Cut
Message: Posted by: Morphy (May 29, 2007 05:34PM)
Short Question:

Which method do most of the cheaters today use, to undo the cut?

Message: Posted by: MagicKim (May 29, 2007 05:51PM)
I don't really know but my guess would be using a crimp of some sort/bridge or a partner.. or both.

Message: Posted by: tommy (May 29, 2007 06:09PM)
As most work with an ally I would say most do not undo a cut but have the ally cut to a jog. In fact I think hopping the cut is very rare indeed. Except in some heads up games where it is common.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (May 29, 2007 10:16PM)
DOCs Infinity Pass is perfect. But, not too many people do it and it is not in print.

Crimps are also good...sometimes, if they miss the crimp, you can fall back on a table pass.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (May 29, 2007 11:52PM)
Most hustlers I know do the table pass.

Message: Posted by: Logan Five (May 30, 2007 07:37PM)
I agree with Doc. Wouldn't putting in a crimp sort of leave evidence?
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (May 30, 2007 08:34PM)
It depends upon how strong the work is ...you can also use a slick card, etc.
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (May 30, 2007 10:15PM)
You could always take the crimp out.

If its bridgework, there are numerous ways to remove the work, including simply holding the deck, flexing, drawing cards off the table, etc.

As I said to doc, I'll just stick to magic where I don't have to worry about the cut ;)
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (May 31, 2007 12:20AM)

Funny you should say that....there is a magic trick which I do where I put a crimp/bridge in so large that you can drive a truck through it....and since it is magic, I will not loose my fingers if I happen to get caught :)

As soon as the deck is cut (I get a 99.999% hit rate). I pick the cards up and flex the cards to take the work out and I am left clean.

Of course, a crimp/bridge that large in a game would likley draw heat :)
But, I can tell you that I have never been nailed and I have been doing the effect for many years.
Message: Posted by: Paul H (May 31, 2007 01:33AM)
Its also the case that some magical/gambling demo's make use of table hops. I am thinking here of a gambling routine by David Ben called 'Bertum, Braue, Ben'. The spectator is allowed to cut the deck and the magician replaces the cut. Within the context of the effect, to my mind this 'little bit of card table procedure' is indispensible and enhances the routines authenticity.


Paul H
Message: Posted by: MagicKim (May 31, 2007 07:01AM)
Hi again.

I would do a crimp that I recently learned and it is invisible from every side of the deck. I love it. I have read descpriptions of the infinity pass but I don't think I got it right still. Hopefully I will someday.
When people say table pass, what pass are they referring to, I know many passes that happens on the table.. :S

Message: Posted by: Morphy (May 31, 2007 01:11PM)
On 2007-05-30 00:52, Unknown419 wrote:
Most hustlers I know do the table pass.


can they do it on all surfaces? I think it's very difficult on some wooden tables..
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 31, 2007 01:43PM)
Yes but it costs extra. :)
Message: Posted by: EMVT (Jun 1, 2007 10:52PM)
To beat the Cut... I will use my own table shift which is invisible from all angles and I can do it surrounded with complete ease and very slowly, or I'll use a crimp that's very, very, fine especially if I'm working with my partner and I have never been caught with these two moves.

These two moves when done naturally and smoothly will definitely get the money trust me there is no heat and if there is heat there are done so slowly and naturally you will not feel nervous at all the key is to perform any kind of move naturally with confidence and then do you truly marvel at the goods when everything falls smoothly.

Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 2, 2007 05:18AM)

Very good I am yet to see the invisible. :)

When you place the cards down to be cut, a good % of players not only cut but complete it. What ways are there of stoping them doing that do you guys know?
Its not like you could say, cut it into two packets, as a magician might.
Message: Posted by: C. Loubard (Jun 2, 2007 09:09AM)
Force a cut
Message: Posted by: Morphy (Jun 2, 2007 11:08AM)
On 2007-06-02 06:18, tommy wrote:

Very good I am yet to see the invisible. :)

When you place the cards down to be cut, a good % of players not only cut but complete it. What ways are there of stoping them doing that do you guys know?
Its not like you could say, cut it into two packets, as a magician might.
a good % of players cut to your crimp...
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 2, 2007 04:36PM)
You don't have to hop.....you can use a cut for location, which is pretty easy and and lot safer.

Do they play Kalooki in Germany? A rummy game played with two decks and jokers. Or any two deck games?
Message: Posted by: Morphy (Jun 2, 2007 06:56PM)
What do you mean with "use a cut for location"?

I remember something like a rummy game with two decks and jokers, but I haven't played it.
In the last years, everyone in germany started to play poker, so I think the games that are played the most over here are poker, skat and pinochle.

In Binokel (the german name for pinochle) they use two french decks (7,8,9,10,J,Q,K,A) without the 8s and 9s. That means you have 48 cards.

We used to play games (not binokel) with 32 card decks most of the time (no 6,5,4,3,2 cards) and the german colors are different:
clubs: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Eichel1.gif[/img]
spades: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Laub1.gif[/img]
hearts: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Herz1.gif[/img]
diamonds: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Schellen1.gif[/img]

So they look like this:
Message: Posted by: Andrei (Jun 3, 2007 06:47AM)
Morphy, practice on the different surfaces and you'll get a feel for what's possible even on hard (non felt) surfaces.
Message: Posted by: magician8 (Jul 28, 2007 03:20PM)
I don't kow about cheaters, but in a table, I feel pretty confident with my one handed erdnase shift, never failed me.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Jul 28, 2007 11:35PM)
On 2007-06-02 06:18, tommy wrote:
When you place the cards down to be cut, a good % of players not only cut but complete it. What ways are there of stoping them doing that do you guys know?
Its not like you could say, cut it into two packets, as a magician might.

The moment you place the deck in front of the cutter, make an arcing motion with your index finger indicating you want the deck cut. Look away halfway through this gesture, either to give attention to someone talking at the far end of the table or to declare that the blinds be put up. As the deck is cut, move to secure the bottom half before the cutter does and complete it yourself. Since you are looking away, it's not like your trying to be sneaky or anything. If you miss, feign surprise and try again later. It only takes a handful of pots to pay for all those lap dances. I prefer forcing the cut myself.

The last game I was in, it was 3 in the morning and we got down to 4 players. Everyone was dead tired and we ended up with 4 decks in play with everyone shuffling and cutting on their own deal. This was to speed up the play as everyone wanted to ramp up the action and either take it down or bust out. You could imagine...
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Jul 28, 2007 11:52PM)
Well considering card rooms and even big money private games utilize the center-dealer format, nullifying the cut is a relatively simple matter.

Magicians seem unable to grasp the notion that cheats almost always work in crews, thus in the majority of cases they simply cut to a brief. The solo cheater running up hands for himself and having to deal with the cut is a rare occurrence and an antiquated situation.
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Jul 29, 2007 01:34AM)
Well said, Z.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Jul 29, 2007 02:57AM)
Hey! You calling me old, Z?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Jul 29, 2007 05:36AM)
On 2007-07-29 03:57, rawdawg wrote:
Hey! You calling me old, Z?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Jul 29, 2007 07:27AM)
You're lucky you're still only drinking milk, otherwise...
Message: Posted by: C. Loubard (Jul 29, 2007 11:59AM)
I agree! well said Mr.Z
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jul 29, 2007 12:46PM)

Thanks I have just noticed your repply.

Poker is not the only game played for cash and I have seen a lot dough change hands in other games, yet guys always think poker when cheating is mentioned.

Kalooki is a game plyeyed with two packs and jokers and there is an hop in that game that I used over and over and won thousands with. I don't know what it's called but it's bold yet I never seen it fail. Since you guys don't play the game it's no use telling you the move.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Jul 29, 2007 03:25PM)
Well, your question was stated in such a way as to sound like only one deck was being used. Speaking of other games being played for cash, I used to play Gin Rummy with a bunch of ex-wards of the State at the local Gentleman's Club. It was mainly for fun but those guys were seriously good and those quarters added up quick. Lately, I've been frequenting Vietnamese Coffee shops and everyone there plays cards. I haven't asked what game they're playing but there's always cash spread all over the table. I'm going there this afternoon and will get nosy.

As far as your two pack plus joker hop, some people do two deck tricks and it might be of use to them...
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 1, 2007 08:55AM)
Like backgammon it is played for various stakes but the game is played for high stakes by a lot people that I know. If this game is not played in the USA then I would strongly advise hustlers to learn it well and introduce it to the public.



Try thinking it through, really carefully.

I am sure you can work this one out if you concentrate it's an easy move.