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Topic: Workout Question
Message: Posted by: totalpackage56 (Sep 15, 2007 11:50PM)
I've been working out for a few months now, but am changing my routine soon. I've talked to a bunch of personal trainers, read a bunch of books etc. and everybody seems split on whether your body just needs a day to rest specific muscle groups or if your body needs a day of rest completely. I want to do one of these two routines and was wondering what everybody thought was best. My main goal is muscle growth. Thanks!

Workout Idea 1:
Sunday: Lower Body and Shoulders, Abs
Monday: Upper Body (chest, back, biceps, triceps)
Tuesday: Lower Body and Shoulders, Abs, Cardio for 15-20 minutes
Wednesday: Upper Body
Thursday: Lower Body and Shoulders, Abs, Cardio for 15-20 minutes
Friday: Upper Body
Saturday: REST

Workout Idea 2:
Sunday: Lower Body and Shoulders
Monday: Upper Body
Tuesday: Abs and Cardio
Wednesday: Lower Body and Shoulders
Thursday: Upper Body
Friday: Abs and Cadio
Saturday: REST
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Sep 16, 2007 12:13AM)
Well...you DID put this in the right place!

I think I'll sit down and have a donut while others think about it.

Mark. :donut2:
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Sep 16, 2007 12:27AM)
You using free weights you lil' wisp of a fellow or some universal weight machine?
Message: Posted by: totalpackage56 (Sep 16, 2007 12:33AM)
Free weights
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Sep 16, 2007 12:53AM)
Get more rest.
Muscles need time to heal if you want them to grow. If you do not rest them enough, you will do more damage than good. 3 or 4 days training a week is enough.
Another thing, the more often you train, the greater the possibility of injury. A serious injury could knock you right of the game for a long time. Take it eay.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Sep 16, 2007 01:13AM)
Good man, free weights are the way to go if you want mass... Don't fall for that 'no pain no gain' stuff, if you have pain you are doing something wrong.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Sep 16, 2007 01:18AM)
See if you can track down Wesley James' site on nutrition. He was one of the early body builders.
Message: Posted by: elmago (Sep 16, 2007 01:55AM)
You are working out your shoulders way too much. They get a good work out already when you are working out your upper body.
The timing is off too. Give your body more rest for working out an area on the body.

Your workout #2 is a better split. Just do not do too much shoulder. Just do them once a week since they are already getting worked out. Shoulders are the number one injury in working out because they are over worked.

If you need a specific system, check out the Body for Life system. Do a search and you will do well. Here is the basic set up:

Monday: Upper body (chest, back, biceps, triceps, and shoulders)
Tuesday: Cardio
Wednesday: Lower Body (Quads, Hams, calves, and abs)
Thursday: Cardio
Friday: Upper body
Saturday: Cardio
Sunday: Rest

Monday: Lower body
Tuesday: Cardio
Wednesday: Upper Body
Thursday: Cardio
Friday: Lower Body
Saturday: Cardio
Sunday: Rest

Study the cycle. Basically you are giving the body 4-5 days of rest to recover per muscle group. It is a good model to start out with to form habits. You will have to check out the system for yourself if you want to know the specific excercises they recommend and how they do them.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Sep 16, 2007 09:54PM)
These are all good ideas. I think ElMago's plan is really good.My old coach told me the same thing. "Lift one day, run the next. Take the weekends off." My new coach agreed and advised more rest because of my age. I'm 44.

It makes me laugh still when I see, "No pain, no gain." I always thought it was, "No pain, no brain."

Nutrition is important, too. So is stretching. Forgetting to stretch or "bouncing" while stretching almost doubles your chances of getting injured.

And don't quit. It takes about a year to see the difference. Your results may vary.
Message: Posted by: Upanishad13 (Sep 16, 2007 10:35PM)
Hello Totalpackage,

The pursuit of physical fitness is very similar to the pursuit of magic:

1. Enthusiasm for both can carry over to obsession and a desire to bite off more than one can chew in order to achieve advanced results. I am new to magic and my mouth waters when I look at the plethora of books and DVDs available, but know my education will be best served by concentrating on Royal Road, Bobo, and Mark Wilson's books. Likewise, with weight training there are so many books and magazines with little twists and turns of training techniques and philosophies that one can become very confused. Remember, Joe Weider and other fitness magazine publishers have to keep coming up with new articles about basically the same things monthly in order to sell more magazines and the many dietary supplements advertised within.

While it is never a bad idea to pursue knowledge it is best to keep things simple in practice and stick to basic exercises and routines. If your goal is to build mass then stick with basic, multi-joint movements such as squats, bench presses, deadlifts, bent over rows, and the military press (of course there are others). It is not so important to do issolation movements such as dumbbell flyes, tricep kickbacks or deltoid laterals. When you are beginning weight training not only are you trying to build muscle mass, but you are also strengthening ligaments, tendons and small muscle groups such as the rotary cuff located among the shoulders and back. CORRECTLY performing the basic exercises will best accomplish this. As for your question about rest between workouts, it is important and cannot be underestimated. A solid, mentally concentrated workout is not only stressful to the body, but also on the mind and nervous system. It is beneficial to split weight training sessions with cardio or complete rest and not to train the same muscle groups more than every 4 or 5 days. Depending on the workout intensity it would not hurt to rest the muscle group longer.

I recommend the book Body For Life by Bill Phillips as suggested by elmago. In additiion to good weight training and cardio advise it lays out some of the best ideas about nutrition and healthy diet. However, it must be understood that Bill Phillips owns a major supplement company and solicits his products in the book. The stuff (meal replacement bars, whey protein, creatine cocktail) is probably high quality, but it would be up to one's own discretion if they found it useful. Which leads me to point number two why magic and fitness are similar.

2.One could spend a whole lot of money on stuff that doesn't live up to the advertised hype. Pertaining to the fitness world I'm referring to the many, many dietary supplements that promise to work miracles. Between GNC or Penguin I don't know who would suck up a credit card account faster. No supplement can compare to wholesome foods like egg whites, lean protein, and complex carbohydrates.

One more word of advise: Do not underestimate the importance of pre workout warmup nor post workout stretching. The "bible" on the subject is Stretching by Bob Anderson.

Train hard, eat well and someday you may be able to lift vehicles like the massive criss angel LOL!! (this was just a knock at angel) Best of luck.

Me, I'm gonna find Mark and curl some donuts. Mmmmmm doonuts (Homer drool)
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Sep 16, 2007 11:09PM)

Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Sep 16, 2007 11:16PM)
Use a spotter!
Message: Posted by: elmago (Sep 17, 2007 12:23AM)
About the issue of no pain on gain...

The type of pain has to be defined. Pain is the body's way of telling you something is wrong. It is there to protect you. Being uncomfortable is another issue. "No pain, no gain" means that if you quit a lifting set at the first sign of uncomfortablness, you will never get your body to reach new level of growth. You are only as good as you could be inside your comfort zone. To grow in anything, you have to leave what is comfortable and and push yourself to new levels. These are growing pains.

When you are going to lift 10 repititions and you start to feel "pain" or the burn around the 7th rep, finishing that set will be tough. Often, your mind gives out before your body does. The "pain" is lactic acid build up in your muscles. Embrace this pain because it means you are growing. Finish that set and fight through that pain. The feeling is great when you reach 10. You feel like you accomplished something.

Real pain is what you get when you do excersises with improper form and hurt yourself. Or you workout with heavier weight that your body can't handle. Or when your shoulders hurt everytime you try to lift anything because you over worked them.

"No pain, no gain" does have its place. It is just misunderstood.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Sep 17, 2007 12:44AM)
Sore good....feeling real pain bad. You may want to check the leather bars in your area, the guys there are into the body building.