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Topic: Another VCA ... from MM this time?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2007 09:01AM)
Word is out that MM is offering a Visual Coins Across called Illusion Coins.

And supposedly using plastic or cheap relica dollar coins.

Now if the sets are cheap enough and the gaffs reliable... you can probably afford a few sets and use the gaffs to do other tricks. And since the coins are replica dollars you can probably have them machined for other uses too.

Strange market.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Oct 10, 2007 09:09AM)
Jon,
I may take a drive to L.A. this weekend to check out the flea market at the Castle and run by Magic Apple to see what Brett's stock looks like since his merge. Hollywood Magic usually carries MM stuff so maybe I can get a peek and report back!
Mick
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Oct 10, 2007 09:14AM)
I can generally see MM stuff in the local shop if I'm really interested, but I've heard this one's selling for a pretty high price, which means we won't be getting in unless it's a special order. I don't think I could let that happen to my friends that come in. The demo video is on their front page. It looks horrible.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Oct 10, 2007 09:26AM)
So, are the coins indeed plastic morgans?
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Oct 10, 2007 09:33AM)
In the review section there is a much more detailed topic. It backs up the claim that they are plastic there.
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Oct 10, 2007 10:37AM)
They call that a coins across, I heard the coins are plastic lol
Message: Posted by: magicandsoul (Oct 10, 2007 11:01AM)
I can't understand why topics like this are started in the first place. Since you actually believe that MM is a bad thing for magic then why on earth would you start a post suggesting the potential that may exist with their products?

Strange market indeed.

M&S
Message: Posted by: Kyf (Oct 10, 2007 11:13AM)
Hi Magicandsoul,

Because there are 32,354 members here, some of them read these topics and avoid the bad products.


Kyf
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Oct 10, 2007 11:26AM)
Also some of the suggestions of buying them I believe were somewhat tongue in cheek!
Mick
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2007 11:49AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-10 12:01, magicandsoul wrote:
...Since you actually believe that MM is a bad thing for magic ...[/quote]

Kind of depends on what you mean by "you" and "bad thing for magic".

if YOU are willing to buy from folks who take from others and sell without permission, ie buy a zombie, chopcup, a digital disolve, any form of "three fly"... then you have some questions to ask yourself.

I see an opportunity to explore the market and using the coin set for other purposes.
Message: Posted by: Kyf (Oct 10, 2007 11:50AM)
Hi Mick,

So are these "coins" really plastic - the video clip sounds like coins (perhaps they dubbed the sounds effects on later).

What you get:

Set of plastic coins,
DVD,
CD of coins noises .....

Kyf
Message: Posted by: jimbowmanjr (Oct 10, 2007 12:02PM)
Rofl.....CD of coin noise....

I would probably fall over dead if the instructions included playing a CD to emulate coin 'chink' noises.....

That would be an original routine in my estimation.

--Jim
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Oct 10, 2007 12:05PM)
I hope you know, that now it has been mentioned... someone will release "the selfworking click pass"
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2007 12:08PM)
Kyf... hurry up and get that product out before some eTailer reads your post and offers it as an MP3 download.

Sounds of Silver

Jumbo Clunk

Miser's Hearing Aid

And bonus beats for the techo x-treme magician.
Message: Posted by: jimbowmanjr (Oct 10, 2007 12:09PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-10 13:05, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I hope you know, that now it has been mentioned... someone will release "the selfworking click pass"
[/quote]

tape recorder in pocket, toe switch in shoe to turn on tape recorder, deer in the headlights look....all set!
Message: Posted by: Kyf (Oct 10, 2007 12:31PM)
Hahaha !

How about miming a VCA with no coins and JUST the sound effects.

Whooosh! (that's one coin across)

Clink (Second coin just arrived in the other hand)

Clunk (that's all three coins across)

And no need to worry about that last coin vanish.

Just remember - you heard it here first...

Kyf
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2007 01:01PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-10 13:05, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I hope you know, that now it has been mentioned... someone will release "the selfworking click pass"
[/quote]

Ya know... after reading that and thinking about those axtell puppets and CDs it occured...

That someone could produce a jumbo coin and then do a vent act with the character on the face (yes it would be a puppet so the mouth moves etc) using a CD.

Someone want to be the first on that one? Enjoy -JT
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (Oct 10, 2007 01:09PM)
My people are already at work on the last two ideas...

Oh wait. I need to get people first.

Mmmm.

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 10, 2007 02:16PM)
Kyf, there's an old story about someone doing Miser's Dream with that exact method. No coins at all, except for one backstage.

Today, just load your ipod into the bucket, and you're off.

I understand the price on this "Happy Meal" version of U3F is $125. Too much to pay for plastic (funny--"do you want paper or plastic"? It's the same for dollars and shopping bags) but once the sets get remaindered, or if you can get them in clear plastic, hmmm.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Oct 10, 2007 02:19PM)
With plastic I imagine the sound would create the "Clack pass"!
Kyf my friend, dunno for sure what material is used but I'm hoping to see them up close and personal on my next trip to the magic shop! At the moment I'm mocking up latex molds for resin coins and maybe call em "Illustrious Cons" I mean Coins! *SMIRK*
MickeyPotstirrer
Message: Posted by: Kyf (Oct 10, 2007 02:34PM)
Hi Curtis,

To think of all the time I wasted practicing when all I needed was my iPod and a bucket - I guess I could use a plastic bucket too?

What a great set - the lazy miser's version of the miser's dream eh!

Mick, You could fit a small piezo electric crystal and circuit into your resin coins to make them sound like the real thing when dropped.

New marketing strategy

"Happy Meal U3F" - a free burger and fries with every purchase.

What time does the patent office close?

Kyf
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Oct 10, 2007 06:36PM)
A friend of mine who runs a magic shop was telling me about this yesterday. He bought "Come Fly With Me" from Mark Mason with the real Morgan Dollar coins. It looks great.

He said the MM version was a knock off of Mark Mason's effect and had coins created that matched what came with the CFWM effect and that it would be selling for around $150!!! Although much cheaper than CFWM and the real Morgan's, it can't be that good!

Seems like the knock-off would have to be made out of plastic or something similar, otherwise they would get a visit from the US Treasury and the Secret Service Dept. for, let's see, what do they call it??? Counterfeiting!!!

Mark. :cowboy:
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2007 06:47PM)
Mark, you're saying that demo was done with gaffs similar to CFWM and still looked that cluttered and unconvincing? CRINGE!
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Oct 10, 2007 06:51PM)
Makes you wonder huh???

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 10, 2007 09:25PM)
Talking about "sound" in a Miser's Dream bucket... the late, great Fred Kaps used a sound making device in his Pirate's Chest (the one he threw the coins into in his act). This was a Pat Page suggestion and was a really amazing, simple and clever idea. It worked beautifully.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Oct 11, 2007 04:42PM)
Pete, Ray Goulet has a Kaps Chest in his collection.. I was there when David Williamson ran to it like the Holy Grail and looked inside. "THAT'S how he
did it???" was all he could say..
Message: Posted by: jquackc (Oct 12, 2007 03:18AM)
Are they really plastic?.. Dangit! Now I have to get a new Rattle Gimmick.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 12, 2007 03:55AM)
Breaking news...wait a bit, but I hear the coins are metal. I once had some pretty good copies of Morgans made from some cheap (and harder then silver) metal. Made in China, and I'm sure there's a story, if not an indictment, behind that. But I don't know it.
Message: Posted by: jamie9 (Oct 12, 2007 06:45AM)
Yeah the coins are just metal replica coins that are not silver. The only downside is that they might say "REPLICA" somewhere on the coins.
Message: Posted by: Gary Dayton (Oct 12, 2007 08:11AM)
Sounds like TV Magic coins.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Oct 12, 2007 03:29PM)
I saw a set last night. They are metal and do look decent, but the gaff only fits on one coin. It's made pretty well, but the coin was cut down and the others weren't. It's too bad, because if they all matched, it would be open to a little personal innovation. Then again, this company doesn't seem to know about personal innovation.
Message: Posted by: TWOCAN (Oct 13, 2007 11:55AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-10 13:02, jimbowmanjr wrote:
Rofl.....CD of coin noise....

I would probably fall over dead if the instructions included playing a CD to emulate coin 'chink' noises.....

That would be an original routine in my estimation.

--Jim
[/quote] Using a coin ratteler would make this set seem realistic I'm sure.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Oct 14, 2007 03:05PM)
They are realistic. They're metal coins, not plastic.
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Oct 14, 2007 03:51PM)
Hmmm...wonder what the difference in the appearance of the coins might be. The wording, the image on the face, etc...?

There has to be something of a major difference from the real thing to avoid a visit from the Feds.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 14, 2007 05:16PM)
Mark, if they're the pot metal replicas from asia, you can see them on ebaY.
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Oct 15, 2007 04:17PM)
I'm one of those guys who buys just about anything having to do with coins. They are some kind of metal. They sound pretty good, but not like real silver.
The word "COPY" is printed on the reverse. The relief on the coins is a little high, so they don't stack evenly, but that doesn't hinder the routine. A nice feature is that when the coins are held with the date side (obverse) out, they look amazingly like "real" soft Morgans. I prefer real Morgans, but these handle rather nicely.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 15, 2007 04:22PM)
Jeff and Nicholas, did the gimmick on the "Illusion Coins" sets that you saw have the same "locking feature" that is present in the Kohler gaff?
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Oct 15, 2007 04:29PM)
Curtis:

The gimmick on the "Illusion Coins" set does have the same locking feature as the Kohler gaff. There's also a Teflon lining.

I really enjoy your work, by the way, Curtis.

Nick
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Oct 15, 2007 04:40PM)
I forgot to add that the young man performing the demo and the routines uses real Morgans, not the fake ones.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 15, 2007 05:56PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 17:29, NicholasD wrote:...
The gimmick on the "Illusion Coins" set does have the same locking feature as the Kohler gaff... [/quote]

That may well be grounds for action, as Thomas/Todd/Bob may have protected their design for the gaff.
Message: Posted by: Kyf (Oct 16, 2007 03:19AM)
Hi,

It sells on Amazon.com for $133.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WZQKX4/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk/002-4441622-5381662

Also there is one for sale here on the "tricks for sale" section $60.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=230164&forum=76&0

Details about the manufacturer are on the links.


Kyf
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 16, 2007 05:50AM)
Well, someone's being a bit more forthright. At the Amazon link, the name of the product is "The Illusion Coins with Steve Tippeconnic". So in spite of the fact that it's still Ben Salinas in the demo reel it's somebody else on the DVD you get.

And can we confirm whether the routine that Ben Salinas does in the demo is the routine that's taught on the DVD?
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Oct 16, 2007 07:57AM)
Someone sellign iot here on the Café says " I bought it cause of Steve Tippeconnic good handling" or somthign of that sort. that must be a joke. the handling wasn;t good even if it was done "better"
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Oct 16, 2007 09:15AM)
The routine that Salinas performs is the version taught, but the guy teaching it performs it much better. The Salinas handling looks horrible, but through no fault of the routine itself.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Oct 16, 2007 09:22AM)
So are you suggesting that's a quality routine? if so please tell me what fine points about it that you see.
Message: Posted by: Loz (Oct 16, 2007 03:25PM)
I am aghast at the appalling clip on Amazon. You are being far too generous in your gentle request for clarification Joshua!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 16, 2007 07:31PM)
Open note to Steve Brooks and the Café staff:

Folks, would you be up for refusing advertising from MM and treating them as an unwanted influence here at the Café?
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Oct 16, 2007 10:01PM)
Joshua, the routine isn't the greatest, but it's not bad by any means. The best thing about it is that this guy has a pretty good method for the last coin that doesn't involve putting it there and then making it jump back. I don't know what method Kohler uses, but this one is pretty and it looks much better when it's not Salinas doing it.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Oct 16, 2007 10:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-16 23:01, Jeff Corn wrote:
Joshua, the routine isn't the greatest, but it's not bad by any means. The best thing about it is that this guy has a pretty good method for the last coin that doesn't involve putting it there and then making it jump back. I don't know what method Kohler uses, but this one is pretty and it looks much better when it's not Salinas doing it.
[/quote]

From what I see in the demo, the last coins is handled the same way as in Kohler's routine. It is a rip off plain and simple.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 16, 2007 10:44PM)
Michael, I too feel it's a ripoff of the Kohler item.

IMHO it is still a horrible abuse of Steve Dusheck's gaff, the work done by the U3F development team on the special gaff AND parts of the routine offered in that item.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 17, 2007 01:35AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-16 20:31, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Open note to Steve Brooks and the Café staff:

Folks, would you be up for refusing advertising from MM and treating them as an unwanted influence here at the Café?
[/quote]

Jonathan, Steve doesn't allow MM to advertis on the Café.
Message: Posted by: Bob Johnston (Oct 17, 2007 09:53PM)
M&M hardly needs to advertise here as they get mentioned constantly.
Any "press" is good press.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 23, 2007 04:20AM)
I saw the coins this evening at a local magic club meeting. They are metal. I'm going to be very precise about the quality. HORRID. These coins are cast. The metal looks like old silver. The coins look like "soft" Morgan dollars.

All of the coins, except one, have skated around the legality of making fake US coins by having the word COPY cast into the coin, not printed, but CAST, as part of the design.

However, the [ doesn't have this. This may fall afoul of the counterfeiting laws.

I would be curious about other aspects of these coins, though. For example, how much lead is in them? These are imported as toys.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (Oct 23, 2007 11:42AM)
Did the other thread on this effect vanish? It was like 6 pages or something...Anyone know what happened?
Message: Posted by: AnthonyMaze (Oct 23, 2007 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 12:42, Hart Keene wrote:
Did the other thread on this effect vanish? It was like 6 pages or something...Anyone know what happened?
[/quote]

It seems the other thread has been locked. There were about 11 pages of replies about these coins, although the last couple pages were off topic.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 24, 2007 04:01AM)
The original thread was moved (at least most of it) to the "Right/Wrong" section of the Café:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=229261&forum=177&start=0

Would have been nice to post the link here, but whatever. Maybe the ethically-minded noncoin people will find it there?
Message: Posted by: John T Cox (Oct 31, 2007 09:40AM)
I was able to handle these coins a couple of days ago. To be honest, from the distance that 3 fly would be performed these would pass for soft Morgans - the kind that has a blackish tint to the recessed area. Up close they look ok on the front. The back has enormous relief, particularly in the feathers. Amusing, to me at least, is that they put a mint mark O on the coin right above the word COPY.

My read on this is that those who cannot justify spending hundreds may buy this set and enjoy working out the routine. If those people like it enough, perhaps they will buy the real thing. But, I doubt that this is taking "real" customers away from the real thing. If someone was really going to buy the original, they probably still will as these are not good enough for a true coin person. Just my opinion. It is a fascinating question that touches magic and other things too. The music industry is always chasing downloaders who, it seems to me, would never have been customers in the first place. Unfortunately this becomes a question of belief - belief that it is wrong or right, belief that it hurts sales of the original or does not... We can argue about beliefs all day long and nobody ever gets much satisfaction.

I will say that it was not nice for MM to do this. At least that is what I believe!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 31, 2007 09:55AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-31 10:40, hypnodream wrote:
... these would pass for soft Morgans - the kind that has a blackish tint to the recessed area...My read on this is that those who cannot justify spending hundreds may buy this set and enjoy working out the routine....I will say that it was not nice for MM to do this. At least that is what I believe!
[/quote]

Why offer the trick in Morgan Dollars at all? Why offer the trick in the first place without offering significant and novel aspects?

Let's suppose it's not "wrong" because it's not illegal ( please BK did you and TW patent that gaff so can persue real action on this? ) but since it offers a duplication of net effect it's certainly not adding anything - kind of like a knock off product - looks about the same from a distance and rationalized by saying that if the consumer is educated in the process it benefits all involved as they upgrade to the real thing.

But still... of all the ways to explore a trick and ways to offer a trick ...

Could have offered something nice using campaign buttons, could have offered something cute using lollipops where you pull off the sticks first. How about "round-tuits" for the trick?

Please folks, don't buy knock off goods.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Nov 6, 2007 10:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-31 10:55, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
***
But still... of all the ways to explore a trick and ways to offer a trick ...

Could have offered something nice using campaign buttons, could have offered something cute using lollipops where you pull off the sticks first. How about "round-tuits" for the trick?

Please folks, don't buy knock off goods.
[/quote]

I guess it's too late for the Oreo cookie design. :lol:
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Nov 15, 2007 04:00AM)
I will not buy anything by Magic Makers Inc., the company disgusts me. Illusion coins is appauling at best. Those associated with this latest incarnation should be ashamed of themselves.

What's next? A Lassen Triple Threat copy made out of this garbage?????
Message: Posted by: pepka (Nov 15, 2007 04:41AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-15 05:00, tdowell wrote:

What's next? A Lassen Triple Threat copy made out of this garbage?????
[/quote]
Don't give'em any ideas!
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 8, 2008 03:37AM)
I don't see these being sold anywhere, so perhaps they died out?
Message: Posted by: ShawnB (Jul 8, 2008 07:50AM)
I just did a quick search and found them in stock at a couple online magic dealers... hmmm

Shawn