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Topic: Doc vs. Conely (A High Level of Discussion)
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 19, 2007 09:40PM)
I know that this post belongs in the hand mucking section but I didn't want to detract from that thread.

Mr. Conely and I are not in a quarrel but due to the fact that I have students/readers reading my post, I have to clarify myself (visually if need be)) so that it wonít look like I have been picked apart by an expert which would make me look like a liar or unknowledgeable about what Iím talking about.

Here is what we both said and at the bottom my defense because what I would have talked about couldnít have been explained in words clearly enough to satisfy my following to my satisfaction.

[quote]
On 2007-10-19 18:17, Ron Conley wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-18 11:13, Unknown419 wrote:

First off, the flat hand on table with a held-out card. Iím not saying that that move have never been done but that guy better look for the closest mortuary if heís dumb enough to constantly keep a card in his hand flat on the table while waiting to do a switch.

[/quote]

Does this mean you don't like the handling as presented, seems hypocritical to jump all over others that basically say the same thing. Perhaps you justify this because you gave some advise, I chose not to give any advise at the time, but did say the mucks were deceptive which they are.

The flat palm blackjack type mucks have been around before any of us were born, and I have seen them take off lots of money. In the hands of the very best they can look beautiful.

Ron
[/quote]

To Whom This May Concern

I state the facts as I see it but if someone more experienced than I can prove me wrong I definitely don't mind changing my opinion but in this case I don't think so.

First off since Mr. Conely honed in on my statement it does make me look like I'm hypocritical but I'm not. There were certain things about palming I did not want to say but since Mr. Conely an expert in his field picked apart my statement that layman normally would overlook, it made me look this way; so now I must talk on Mr. Conely's level.

I stated what I stated because I had a friend by the name of Prett a dice and card mechanic (the man in my dice video who said regarding Steve..."this is what your man was trying to do") that held his palm flat on the table with a held out card for years and have gotten away with it but he did say that he had a partner that was way better than him and after I showed him a better way, he did admit that it was more logical to do it that way.

I said that to say this, my hustling friends (the blacks) know nothing of Steve nor any one like him. This knowledge of ours is passed down from hustler to hustler to hustler. Now if the hustler learns a sleight the wrong way, this is the knowledge that he's going to pass down to his student (You see how Allen Kennedy honed in on Dai Vernon's see saw when he dealt Walter Scott's seconds). With that said, who ever taught Scarne or my friend taught them wrong even though it was probably the best way they knew at the time.

Am I Jumping All Over The Place? In my opinion, no.

Even though Steve quoted you in his book, do you do hand mucks? Doing surveillance and doing the moves are totally two different talents; do you possess both and if you do hand mucks why is it that you did not tell my readers/students that passing your hand over a card is not logical in picking up a card from the table while turning it over.

Magicians slide a card under the other one and quickly turn the card(s) over thinking that they did a gambler's switch when all they did was a magic trick; it's totally illogical because the laws of physics prevents this telekinetic ability.

For the record Steve and Rod the Hop are my teachers concerning this matter and My Expose depict my advancement in this technique meaning I've gone beyond what they've shown me. Compare my one-handed two-card turn over to Steveís. Some may not like it, but I like mine better because itís even more logical than what my teachers taught me.

Mr. Conely since our conversation between us maybe misconstrued as an argument/disagreement to my students/readers they will not know what I'm actually talking about therefore these clips of my teacherís handling will show that I'm definitely not confused and how a gambler is suppose to pick up cards lying on the table, how a card is held without bending the hell out of it, the get ready and the switch and last but not least the hand wash and clean-up.

If you think upon seeing this handling that these hand-mucking techniques are wrong I would like to see your footage of the correct way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC-E0toDGOQ


Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: Yiannis (Oct 19, 2007 10:19PM)
Doc, this is amazing footage and your analysis superb as always. Wow!
Message: Posted by: silverking (Oct 19, 2007 10:34PM)
Totally amazing Doc, thanks for posting that.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Oct 19, 2007 10:52PM)
How about Doc posts clips of himself doing all this stuff for once instead of constantly throwing up clips of other guys (without their permission) just to gain popularity among this crowd? I just find it sad.

Doc seems ignorant to the fact that his behavior on this site makes it back to his "teachers" and they are none too happy about it. But you do what you gotta do...
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 19, 2007 11:08PM)
True artwork...thanks for sharing !
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 19, 2007 11:16PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-19 23:52, Mr. Z wrote:
How about Doc posts clips of himself doing all this stuff for once instead of constantly throwing up clips of other guys (without their permission) just to gain popularity among this crowd? I just find it sad.
[/quote]

Mr. Z. you're always the first one to say something and to have your face twisted about what I do but still the first one to always look at the stuff I post why?

Why should I post clips of me doing this stuff when it is my teacher(s) who deserve the honor. I'm a student and as a student I should render honor where honor is due. What you want me to do is exactly what Lucifer did in heaven when he was trying to steal God's glory and claim it as his own. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being a student all I want to do is be the best student I can be and to give the props to who deserves it.

[quote]
Doc seems ignorant to the fact that his behavior on this site makes it back to his "teachers" and they are none too happy about it. But you do what you gotta do...
[/quote]

And you seem to be ignorant to the fact that what I just showed, showed no teaching of the moves. For the record these exact moves are depicted in his Casino Protection and Poker Protection Book or didn't you know that?

Mr. Z you can do me a favor by not reading my post.

Thanks in advance.

Doc
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Oct 19, 2007 11:44PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 00:16, Unknown419 wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-19 23:52, Mr. Z wrote:
How about Doc posts clips of himself doing all this stuff for once instead of constantly throwing up clips of other guys (without their permission) just to gain popularity among this crowd? I just find it sad.
[/quote]

Mr. Z. you're always the first one to say something and to have your face twisted about what I do but still the first one to always look at the stuff I post why?

[/quote]

See the second part of my post.

Posted: Oct 20, 2007 12:50am
Quote:


On 2007-10-20 00:16, Unknown419 wrote:
And you seem to be ignorant to the fact that what I just showed, showed no teaching of the moves. For the record these exact moves are depicted in his Casino Protection and Poker Protection Book or didn't you know that?



If you're that dense to think that's what this is about, then there isn't much else to say.

It's the whole principle of putting stuff out in the public domain without the permission of those featured. Do you really think Steve and Rod would appreciate you posting video clips of them without their consent?
Message: Posted by: Clock (Oct 20, 2007 12:10AM)
I've waited a long tim to see something like this...
Message: Posted by: Ron Conley (Oct 20, 2007 12:10AM)
Quote from Doc's post from the open shift thread on Oct, 1st

Note: I really wanted to post some of Steveís footages to show you how itís done in his book but his moves are not mine to show.


Respectfully,

Doc it's your words that make you look bad, not mine. What your doing is totally out of line.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 20, 2007 02:33AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 01:10, Ron Conley wrote:
Quote from Doc's post from the open shift thread on Oct, 1st

Note: I really wanted to post some of Steveís footages to show you how itís done in his book but his moves are not mine to show.


Respectfully,

Doc it's your words that make you look bad, not mine. What your doing is totally out of line.
[/quote]

Now I'm out of line. Don't try to put me on the spot and make me look bad or not knowledgeable in front of my readers/friends and students. Ya'll write books, tell stories in books quoting your name and making videos for who ever will buy it and it's okay but as soon as I write something I'm out of line; then you quote what I say to try to subconsciously make my readers forget that you are to admit that I was right or post footage proving that I was wrong.

Steve has revealed so much stuff in his books with your help that it's a shame but you say nothing to him or about him. That's butt kissing in my book. You know and I know that you have to live these moves in order to do them. Many read of these moves in his book and don't say anything about them but when I show ya'll how it actually looks in action Iím wrong even though I edit the footage of him teaching me.

Don't open up Pandora's box if you're not willing to deal with what comes out of it. You attacked my integrity and I defended my grounds with proof. Admit that I know what I'm talking about or produce your footage and prove me a liar.

Note: Many of you who have met me know that I don't talk down to a student and I will even hang with the kids if need be. I talked to all of ya'll as a friend that is seeking knowledge like I did even helping magicians that I meet in the magic stores while I'm there. I'm in this position because I've been lied to and led to believe lies written by magicians who wanted to boost their status in the magic community.

The Pot Calling The Kettle Black

Quote from Casino Game Protection

Mr. Conely according to page 432 in Steve's Casino Protection book did you not take privately owned casino footage and show it to Steve? Yes. In Steve's own words; "I've...been fortunate to see numerous techniques from draw and lowball, thanks to some very old surveillance footage from the private collection of Ron Conley.

Did the casino or place you worked for give you permission to show this? I doubt it being that the footage of these crimes were very old (meaning around the mid 70's early 80's).

A wise man once told me Mr. Conely...it's your words that make you look bad (too), not mine. So if what I did was out of line what you did was also out of line.


Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Oct 20, 2007 02:46AM)
Oy.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 20, 2007 03:13AM)
There you go again...in everything but a coffin.

Mr. Z you are one of those so-called elite users that I spoke about who likes to look down on the little guy. You hang around Vegas butt kissing to see moves so you can come here and act like you're an authority on what can and can't be done. Then like the little tattle tale that you are run back to Steve and say Doc is talking and showing things about you again. In our world you're snitch. You probably couldn't bust a move if they paid you.

How is it that you know so much about me showing them respect. When did you become God and able to read minds and convey their thoughts?

You say I crave attention so what if I do? Why are you constantly on my jock strap. Leave me alone and mine your business. You ain't nothing but a snitch and an instigator; and as far as me being a nutjob so what if I am. You're just a squirrel in this world trying to get a nut.

At any rate keep butt kissing but stay out of my way.

(This is the nice version)


Signed

The Doctor
Message: Posted by: ASW (Oct 20, 2007 03:21AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 03:33, Unknown419 wrote:

Mr. Conely according to page 432 in Steve's Casino Protection book did you not take privately owned casino footage and show it to Steve? Yes. In Steve's own words; "I've...been fortunate to see numerous techniques from draw and lowball, thanks to some very old surveillance footage from the private collection of Ron Conley.
[/quote]

You can't see the difference between the head of security for a joint showing one guy his tapes... and you posting other people's work they gave you in confidence on the web for all to see?

You can't see the difference?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Oct 20, 2007 03:21AM)
Ha, well I may be elite but "special" certainly describes you, Doctor...
Message: Posted by: O J (Oct 20, 2007 03:51AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 04:13, Unknown419 wrote:
There you go again...in everything but a coffin.

Mr. Z you are one of those so-called elite users that I spoke about who likes to look down on the little guy. You hang around Vegas butt kissing to see moves so you can come here and act like you're an authority on what can and can't be done. Then like the little tattle tale that you are run back to Steve and say Doc is talking and showing things about you again. In our world you're snitch. You probably couldn't bust a move if they paid you.

[/quote]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brilliant Doc

That really does some it up. Thanks for the footage and keep it coming.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 20, 2007 04:23AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 04:21, ASW wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 03:33, Unknown419 wrote:

Mr. Conely according to page 432 in Steve's Casino Protection book did you not take privately owned casino footage and show it to Steve? Yes. In Steve's own words; "I've...been fortunate to see numerous techniques from draw and lowball, thanks to some very old surveillance footage from the private collection of Ron Conley.
[/quote]

You can't see the difference between the head of security for a joint showing one guy his tapes... and you posting other people's work they gave you in confidence on the web for all to see?

You can't see the difference?
[/quote]

No I don't see the difference. I see two people with footage that belongs to someone else. Both people show the other parties gambling moves without showing how it's done nor do they get consent from there owners. One show his on the Internet and gets known for his knowledge while the other show all of his to close friends etc. in Vegas and this is how he gets known for is knowledge.

I see both parties being innocent or both parties being guilty. In either case whatever the outcome is, both parties will share the same fate.

ASW you will not be a good judge because you're impartial for whatever reasons. The facts are the facts like 'em or not.

I rest my case


Signed,

The Doctor

Posted: Oct 20, 2007 5:30am
Quote:


On 2007-10-20 04:21, Mr. Z wrote:
Ha, well I may be elite but "special" certainly describes you, Doctor...



LMAO...now this is funny. Okay you won this round.


Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: h2o (Oct 20, 2007 04:40AM)
As far as I understand, Doc you're the one who did the video footage. So from a 'legal' point of view, you own the rights on it. Besides we can't see anyone's face. Privacy of the people is respected. We just see moves. No clear explanations on how to do them.
It's easy to blame someone and give moral advices.

Awesome video, Doc.
Message: Posted by: Ron Conley (Oct 20, 2007 04:43AM)
I have no books or videos to sell, maybe someday. The tapes you refer to came from the Rainbow Club in Gardena California, they are private property, mine. I was a shift manager their when it closed so I ask Tom Parks the Managing General Partner if I could have them, his answer was yes. I have other tapes that I got the right way also. There are other tapes that although it was OK for me to have them it would be out of line to show them. Over the years some casinos have supplied tapes for me to review, that I was not required to return. I would be wrong to show these publicly.

Steve has been a dear friend what more can I say. I admire him as a human being just as much as I do for his beautiful moves and tremendous knowledge. Even though it's been 20 years since we first sat down my jaw dropped so far it still hurts. Now is not a good time to talk about him though and I'm not guessing.

Doc you have my respect for your knowledge and ability and your friends and students will read this. My apologies if I did anything to make you look bad. All have sinned and fallen short, this includes both of us. I know way worse things about myself than anyone is going to post on the Internet.

In closing all I can say is I'm done with it, should this war continue it will be without me.

Peace to all sincerely, Ron
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 20, 2007 06:08AM)
Mr. Conely you're an expert in your field therefore much respect should be given to you for paving the way for us wanna-be's. There was a time when Mr. Loubard and I had a similar discussion on the topic of N-Strippers and I honed in on him because of a statement that he made. I knew the answer because I know the field and something just wasn't right. You did the same thing with the statement that I made, which only an expert saw through like yourself.

The only thing that I was trying to prove to my readers was that I wasn't being hypocritical even though it seem that I was. Many look up to me and it would be heartbreaking to me if I let them down. (It's a spiritual thing). There are things that these guys will never understand about hustling even though it's right smack dead in their face because all they want to know is how the cards get from one place to the other. I will take down the footage very soon but I want the readers to know that the level they're searching for is far beyond what they would ever know.

You're a legend in your part of the world and since us blacks have no legends because ours die having had no exposure to anything, our legacy is lost. Now since I'm here and since the arrival of the Internet, I want to let the world know that we play a major part in it too. This is why I can't let my fellow readers/students down because they are the ones that will immortalize me and if my teaching is wrong they will kick everything I say and my post to the curb.

You know what Ron? We're basically of the same mold (hustling back ground). Why do you say that? When I was at Tannen's one day I met a white hustler in the store. We started chattin' and stuff and he took me uptown to the Jewelry District here in NYC. I met up with some other hustlers and to my surprise we all spoke basically the same lingo. They took me under their wing like they knew me forever. I felt great to be with them.

I said that to say this, in the hustling world even though there are color boundaries, the way these guys made me feel, I didn't even notice it. We kept it real with each other. I know you said that you have no books or videos to sell but I know that if you did, you could (smile). You're right about it's not a good time to talk about Steve because our two worlds do connect. Silence is golden.

Mr. Conely, your students/readers need to know that Doc humbly apologizes for any disrespect that was conferred upon you. Students Mr. Conely is a legend and should be respected as such. He's one of our teacher's, teacher. His talent may not be like ours but he was there and has the footage to prove it. If it weren't for him a lot of the lost knowledge that we search for would be forever lost. Our archives are a safe house so that the knowledge we have can be passed on to the elite.

Yes you students are the future hustlers of tomorrow and like Mr. Conely helped Steve when he was young, I'm helping you. There was a misunderstanding because the student (which is I) thought that he had all the sense but now that I have shut-up I'm back to my senses again.

Mr. Conely thanks for writing and talking to me. May the Lord bless you and your family.

Take Care,

Your New Friend and Student


Signed

The Doctor
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 20, 2007 07:22AM)
Nice card work anyway.
Message: Posted by: bill7 (Oct 20, 2007 08:14AM)
When in doubt Knockem out!!!
Message: Posted by: magician8 (Oct 20, 2007 10:30AM)
Amazing video.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 20, 2007 11:09AM)
The footage is down and will not be shown again. For those who saw it, you've been blessed and for those who didn't...well better luck next time.

Student Out...


Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 20, 2007 11:31AM)
I personally agree with Doc...and I appreciate him posting the video.

No one can tell who is doing the sleights and there is no explanation.....so, at least no one's personal rights were violated.

I personally enjoyed it and look forward to mare video clips from DOCs collection.
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Oct 20, 2007 12:53PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-20 12:31, Expertmagician wrote:
No one can tell who is doing the sleights and there is no explanation.....so, at least no one's personal rights were violated.
[/quote]

Um... except for the fact that he told the world that the hands in that video belonged to Steve Forte and Rod the Hop.

Aside from that, we already heard that one or more of the people who's footage was displayed are "none too happy about it."

I think that says plenty. That kind of stuff should be kept under hat.

What was that word again? Snitch?

CC
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 20, 2007 10:24PM)
Video back up until tomorrow. Go back to link and click.

Doc
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Oct 21, 2007 01:29PM)
Doc, you got nothing to prove. There are a few on the sidelines that can pick up on things being said and determine very easily who is who. Its quite easy to tell the pros, collectors and students apart based on their input.

Just be you. That's plenty.
Message: Posted by: C. Loubard (Oct 21, 2007 06:21PM)
KingStardog, I agree 100%.

Doc, you've been there done that, regardless of the level you've done it. No one can take that from you. you'll never be able to please everyone, so screw'em.

Personally, I've grown very tired of this place, myself, because of moronic posts. None of these posts mean anything when you're getting the money and laughing all the way to the bank.

I can't even find a higher level of intellect on this section of the forum, which is why I'm hardly here. Personally, discussing ethics in the "right and wrong" section is much more entertaining.

Doc, you don't need to prove anything. No one has walked in your shoes and that's okay.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 21, 2007 07:16PM)
Kingstardog and Mr. Loubard I know that you both are right but if every one go, who's going to help them? If it wasn't for periodic postings at this here Cafť, I would have never met Allan Halcon in order for him to teach me his world famous Greek Deal.

What about the help of all of you guys out there like Jeff who gave me info. so that I could meet Mr. Richard Turner etc. Jason England who helped me out and got me to meet to Damien N. Darwin Ortiz who introduced me to Andrew Wimhurst. Dr. X. who introduced me to Steve F. who reintroduced me to Sal Piacente and last but not least Rod the Hop who introduced me to Apollo Robbns. All of this, even though small to ya'll means a whole lot to me.

I'd like to thank all of you for your help while in my quest to get better, and for those of you who I forgot to mention like Jeremy, Andrei, Yiannis, Jeff W. Walking Liberty, Paul Wilson, Mark Mitton, David Ben, Doug Edwards, Craig, PaperMechanic, David Train etc. please forgive me for those to whom I forgot to mention.

Thanks in Advance.

Sincerely,

Signed

The Doctor

P.S. By the way the video is back down.
Message: Posted by: C. Loubard (Oct 21, 2007 08:04PM)
Doc, you make a very valid point. I guess I've just read so much frustrating nonsense I'm a bit jaded. Again, you do make a good point. Thanks for snapping me out of it.
Message: Posted by: matu (Oct 22, 2007 08:15PM)
Mr Z. reminds me of a certain Eddie McGuire. Lives through the skills of others, tries to get access to the "inner circles" (through butt kissing), probably full of himself...
Seriously, what are you even doing on this forum?
Message: Posted by: Stepanov (Oct 23, 2007 01:37AM)
Again I am too late... Link to video not work... Live is finished...
Message: Posted by: ASW (Oct 23, 2007 05:27AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-22 21:15, matu wrote:
Mr Z. reminds me of a certain Eddie McGuire. Lives through the skills of others, tries to get access to the "inner circles" (through butt kissing), probably full of himself...
Seriously, what are you even doing on this forum?
[/quote]

Actually, you're wrong about Z. But whatever.
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Oct 23, 2007 06:55AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-22 21:15, matu wrote:
Mr Z. reminds me of a certain Eddie McGuire. Lives through the skills of others, tries to get access to the "inner circles" (through butt kissing), probably full of himself...
Seriously, what are you even doing on this forum?
[/quote]

Umm...nope.
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (Oct 23, 2007 12:48PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-22 21:15, matu wrote:
Mr Z. reminds me of a certain Eddie McGuire. Lives through the skills of others, tries to get access to the "inner circles" (through butt kissing), probably full of himself...
Seriously, what are you even doing on this forum?
[/quote]

Maybe I'm just not paying attention, but I haven't seen anything close to what you are mentioning. I've seen no "butt kissing", pandering to get into any "inner circles" (as if there was such a thing on the Cafť...), nor "living through the skills of others".

Some pretty offensive accusations if they are blind speculation...
Message: Posted by: matu (Oct 23, 2007 01:13PM)
Well every time I've seen Z comment was to go after Doc. Be some kind of moral authority, speaking for Steve Forte as if he was his representative on the Cafť. So unless he is Mr Forte, he should give Doc a rest.

Just wanted to explain where my parallel to McGuire was coming from. It was more from my observations and exasperation rather than who Mr Z really is.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 23, 2007 08:46PM)
I donít agree with anyone one of you. :)
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Oct 24, 2007 12:39AM)
Well hasnt this turned into quite the interesting discusion? some fighting, some making up...

Who are the previously mentioned people "who are none to happy" about their work on the video? did I miss something? I havent seen mr fortes name here.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 24, 2007 06:16AM)
The people who are none to happy are ones who know they have been cheated. Who are the ones that will not be blamed for nothing? :)
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Oct 24, 2007 09:48AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 14:13, matu wrote:
speaking for Steve Forte as if he was his representative...
[/quote]

Or maybe that he knows Mr. Forte, and learned from him (look at his card handling, pal.) Perhaps you are making ridiculous statements about a person who runs with a pack that you know NOTHING of?

I know what the right answer is. Do you?

[quote]
On 2007-10-23 14:13, matu wrote:
Just wanted to explain where my parallel to McGuire was coming from. It was more from my observations and exasperation rather than who Mr Z really is.
[/quote]

Your parallel, wasn't. It was spawned in exasperation, as were your "observations." I suggest you try to bridle your emotions and muster some patience. You might learn a little something.

CC
Message: Posted by: silverking (Oct 24, 2007 09:50AM)
[quote]
Who are the ones that will not be blamed for nothing? :)
[/quote]
Goulston Street graffiti Tommy?
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 24, 2007 09:56AM)
Sigh....let's all be friends :)

Besides, we are here to help each other...not bicker.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Oct 24, 2007 11:05AM)
Tommy and Silverking, you're not going to bring the Freemasons into this, are you?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 24, 2007 11:11AM)
:) What makes me laugh is The Phantom is one the most insulting and obnoxious little twerps as is evidenced in is blog. All the boys did here was give a little constructive critique about his work, which I can only assume was misconstrued as being somewhat harsh by some.

As for showing film of others work, lets just say it is always a good idea to ask for permission before showing it.

Onward
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 24, 2007 12:02PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 12:11, tommy wrote:
lets just say it is always a good idea to ask for permission before showing it[/quote]

And always a bad idea to assume the poster did not have permission or does not know what comes of posting videos without consent.

I'd say Doc doesn't need advice about what to do with his videos. Probably knows better what his teachers think of it more than y'all do, but that's just me assuming, so take it for what it's worth.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 24, 2007 01:57PM)
What makes you presume it is an assumption? What makes you presume that I have assumed that Doc posted a film without permission? What makes presume that my advice is meant for Doc in particular?
I have assumed nothing of that for your information. So do you have a point or are you here to simply kiss Doc's ass?
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 24, 2007 02:36PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 14:57, tommy wrote:
What makes you presume it is an assumption? What makes you presume that I have assumed that Doc posted a film without permission? What makes presume that my advice is meant for Doc in particular?
I have assumed nothing of that for your information. So do you have a point or are you here to simply kiss Doc's ass?
[/quote]

I didn't assume anything, I wasn't talking to you. I was simply following up on what you said.

What makes you assume that I thought you were lecturing Doc? Why do you assume that what I was saying was directed specifically at you? It goes both ways, doesn't it? So if you were just giving advice, so was I. Take it or leave it, like I said, and I don't give a **** either way.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 24, 2007 04:05PM)
Quote]
On 2007-10-19 23:52, Mr. Z wrote:
How about Doc posts clips of himself doing all this stuff for once instead of constantly throwing up clips of other guys (without their permission) just to gain popularity among this crowd? I just find it sad.

Doc seems ignorant to the fact that his behavior on this site makes it back to his "teachers" and they are none too happy about it. But you do what you gotta do...
[/quote]

I donít know if that is true or false. However I am going to assume it is. How does that grab you?
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 24, 2007 04:24PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 17:05, tommy wrote:
I donít know if that is true or false. However I am going to assume it is. How does that grab you?
[/quote]

I think it's sad that you think Doc is so stupid as to be ignorant of what his teachers think of what he's doing. Other than that it's no skin off my nose, and I'd prefer you not try to grab me, I don't swing that way.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Oct 24, 2007 04:25PM)
Okay, okay, okay I was wrong.

Wow it looks like the whole felt forum is at each others throat....Can we all just get along?

Doc
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 24, 2007 04:36PM)
Sad to hear that Doc... Anyway it's your problem to take care of, not my business...

I'm sure I'd get along fine with Tommy... We share a similar opinion of the Phantom for one :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 24, 2007 04:49PM)
Splice

:) I see you fell into my trap.


"I donít know if that is true or false. However I am going to assume it is. How does that grab you?"

Is what? True or False? :)
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 24, 2007 04:56PM)
Since you were telling us the same thing as the passage you quoted, I assumed you were saying it is true. Otherwise your position wouldn't make sense.

Regardless it doesn't matter anymore since Doc said he was wrong.

And since you seem more interested in playing games and arguing to little purpose, I see no reason to continue replying to you. Good day.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 24, 2007 09:48PM)
Splice

The point was to show you that we are not reading what is actually being said. Having reread the above I believe I am as guilty as anyone of misreading things. If only people had simply read what was actually being said in the original thread by CC, Z and Ron carefully then the nonsense that ensued could have been avoided I believe. I am sorry for being impolite.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 24, 2007 11:00PM)
Doc has been known to post some of the finest work that I have seen on coolers, strippers, table shift/pass, etc.

So, he does share his own material.

I personally believe that his openness should be treated with respect ! .... and I personally feel that it is an honor to know him....especially as a member of this forum !
Message: Posted by: onbekende020 (Oct 25, 2007 06:39PM)
Once again DOC, great video... and again I was to late saving it on my computer, dammit!

USM