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Topic: First Trance
Message: Posted by: C.W.G. (Oct 28, 2007 04:26PM)
Hi guys... This has probobly been posted a million times before but when starting out is it better to try and hypnotise people you don't know or people you do know?

I ask this because when hypnotising people you do know, you lose some of the in built suggestion of being a hypnotist if you know what I mean.

Also does anyone have any tips on practicing inductions while on your own? How does a hypnotist practice? I'm just starting out in hypnosis. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 28, 2007 04:32PM)
People you don't know are far easier.

It builds expectation.
Message: Posted by: Nongard1 (Oct 28, 2007 06:48PM)
I agree, people who I don't know are FAR easier.

Practice my memorizing scripts, incoprorating them into you everyday world. Practice rapport, tone, voice, speed, rate, pitch. Hypnotize anything and everything under your breath in and in your mind. For example, talk to yourself. When opening a door say to yourself, "OK door, you could open slowly or quickly it really doesn't matter and when you open that willl be a que to open wider and feel even better!" Crazy stuff like that... but it helps. Master hypnotic language patterns, and practice them everythwere....

I did a lot with my kids when I was learning.... They thought I was crazy, but that way I could practice timing, routines, etc. In fact, I still use them today! Wish I could suggest they clean their rooms though and have that stick!

Richard
Message: Posted by: silverfire9 (Oct 29, 2007 01:10AM)
In addition to Richard's excellent suggestions, you could try recording an induction into a recorder of some sort. Tape recorder, MP3 player, whatever. Then listen to it. Not only will you be practicing the induction that way, but you might just get a better idea of what it sounds/feels like, as well.

Also, try taking *one* language pattern and focusing on using that as many times as you can that day. Say you choose "and linkage." Go throughout your day as normal, but look for ways to link two unrelated concepts with "and." "The sun is shining and I want a sandwich."

Even if it doesn't work as a hypnotic suggestion, it still gets you in the habit of talking that way.

Or take one aspect like matching tone or rate of speech and do that repeatedly throughout the day.

Sometimes breaking things down into smaller chunks is helpful, isn't it?
Message: Posted by: Nongard1 (Oct 29, 2007 11:17AM)
Silverfish, I STILL do that using the NLP/Milton deck of cards as the pattern of the day... You can find cards all over my house and office.
Message: Posted by: silverfire9 (Oct 29, 2007 05:55PM)
LOL. Another idea that is used in another forum I'm a member of is a thread for posting suggestions. Simple suggestions or complex; it's up to you. The idea is to post every day and get into the habit of thinking hypnotically. I haven't been as active in that thread as I'd like, but I do participate and find it useful. Not to mention fun. ;)

I have yet to buy one of those card decks I see floating around, though I probably will in the near future.
Message: Posted by: C.W.G. (Oct 30, 2007 02:58PM)
Thanks for the excellent replies, I'll be sure to put them to use, if anyone else has some good ideas I'd be keen to hear them!
Message: Posted by: JonWhite (Nov 4, 2007 03:16PM)
Just to add my vote to Silverfire's advice of recording and listening to your own inductions.

I did this when first starting out on a hypnotherapy course. I'd record an induction, useful suggestions (ie a confidence script) and an emerging script and then sit and listen to it almost as a self-hypnosis session. Apart from learning what I actually sounded like instead of how I'd thought I sounded (very, very different!), it was invaluable as a tool for learning pacing, emphasis, etc. It also helped me learn various scripts quickly and easily and because I'd get them to the point that I felt they worked most effectively on me, gained a real confidence in using them and their working on other people.

Other than actual practice with other people (preferably not friends), it was probably the most useful exercise I did.

ETA: I just remembered that another trick I used was to have photocopies of the scripts I was learning stuck around the house such as on kitchen cupboard doors or the bathroom mirror, and each time I got something out or cleaned my teeth or whatever would go over a section.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Nov 21, 2007 07:54AM)
Here's a awesome idea, one that's been mentioned. Pick a induction, one that's already out there or if you know the principles of inductions make one up. Then make a "Self Hypnosis" recording. Do your induction, then just give yourselve all positive suggestions, and so on and count yourself out. Listen to it everyday that way the induction gets ingrained BUT you will start feeling more positive about life in general. Another thing DON'T laugh, get a somewhat big stuffed animal. Sit it in a chair, talk to it, to your pre-induction talk to it, and hypnotize it. If you use arm drop techniques as I do, pick up the stuffed animals arm and do that. Also use friends and family (though they will be harder) or if you meet someone on the street really talk up hypnosis BIG TIME, then right there ONLY if it's safe hypnotize them if they'll let you. Hand your business card to that person tell them to call you for future hypnosis sessions, Ed, (Eddini), Certified Hypnotist. C.H.
Message: Posted by: daghank (Mar 21, 2009 07:11AM)
Wouldnt practicing on people would be a better start? I am so new to hypnosis also but I feel like if I go out and try it on a stranger and if I fail,that would demoralise me and take all my confidence away

or am I totally wrong?
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Mar 21, 2009 11:06AM)
Practicing with other people, IMO, is better. Even better is practicing with other people while being observed by an experienced trainer, which is why I always suggest people save their money and take some in-person training--it tends to be faster and more effective.

However, anyone can read an induction and suggestions, The big question, IMO, is "How do I know someone is hypnotized?" I think this is a question many new hypnotists have, especially if they're training from books or videos. I've often heard, "well, the person looked really relaxed." That's great as relaxation often accompanies hypnosis, but is not required for it. Hypnosis is not sleep or relaxation.

So I would suggest that after the induction and BEFORE making suggestions you use convincers. If you want to discuss convincers, let's start another thread. However, I will say this here: a convincer will prove to you that a person is hypnotized, can help you lead a person to a more profound hypnotic trance, and later, if the person wonders if they were hypnotized, you can remind them of what happened with the convincer. They almost always will say something like "oh, yeah," and smile, knowing that, indeed, they were hypnotized.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Mar 21, 2009 01:11PM)
There is no real problem practicing with people who know you well as long as they are prepared to take your efforts reasonably seriously. In other words do what you are asking them to do in terms of where you want them physically and what you want them doing mentally.

Some people get experience by settling their subject down and essentially reading a script to them. This is often something like progressive relaxation or 'Ericksonian' in nature. If you do that you may well hypnotize people and will gain some experience but it makes the leap to testing your work as suggested by dmkraig above (good advice) a little tougher. Plus it leads to some beginners getting stuck in a comfort zone of hiding behind their script or worse still into a belief that it is the script that is doing the work. From there on in they tend to search for better scripts. However this approach can get you started.

My advice and the way I teach people is to first of all know how to set up your hypnotic situation, how to establish a hypnotic relationship. Knowing that I suggest you master and deliver repeatedly some of the well known exercises (what I refer to as a set piece) commonly known as suggestibility tests or exercises in waking hypnosis - such as magnetic fingers, magnetic hands, stiff arm, cataleptic eyelids etc. Deliver these to anyone who will put up with you. You do not have to mention hypnosis - just show them something interesting. You should be able to get 100% success with magnetic fingers and hands and 80% success with the others.

Doing this over and over with a variety of people is going to give you a chance to observe people taking instructions, develop your patter, heighten your observation skills and also the skill of pacing and leading. At that point you really are very close to being able to hypnotize.
So once the above is accomplished choose one or two inductions that you feel comfortable with. Never mind worrying if it is the right one for your subject. Just master one that you can deliver with confidence, smoothly and without faltering.

Then go from the set piece stuff smoothly into your induction.

Deepening can be simple and short. Fractionation can help especially beginners.

Know what your first real 'routine' is going to be. I have often seen beginners flounder when they surprise themselves by zapping someone. So know where you are going next. I suggest you make suggestions for arm levitation or arm catalepsy.

Build up one step at a time. You will get there quicker than you might imagine.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Mar 21, 2009 01:14PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-21 08:11, daghank wrote:
I am so new to hypnosis also but I feel like if I go out and try it on a stranger and if I fail,that would demoralise me and take all my confidence away

or am I totally wrong?
[/quote]

I forgot to say, experiencing failure is part of the learning process. If you are not prepared to get egg on your face or should I say accept it is gonna happen and learn what you can it is very difficult to get started with hypnosis.

Just tell yourself it is them not you and move on :)

Anthony
Message: Posted by: RobertTemple (Mar 21, 2009 01:45PM)
I, in truth, never actually went out and practised in the early days.. I just learnt what I had to know and then risked a show. After the success of doing it on stage twice I then started honing and perfecting things in the real world, out and about.

I would back up EVERYONE else's advice and say that you should definately practise on people that you have never met.. they don't know that you're learning it. I've always preached this...

BUT, a current student of mine phoned me yesterday to say that she had just hypnotised her first 2 subjects and one of them is her best friend!

So it can be done in the early days BUT the success will be lower than that of someone you have never met.

Rob
Message: Posted by: kingjay (Mar 21, 2009 03:24PM)
Cwg- look at it this way ... you will either SUCCEED or you will LEARN .. either way, your improving!
Message: Posted by: daghank (Mar 21, 2009 03:48PM)
These posts were so helpful thank you all,do you have any advices as convincers?

everyone mentions magnetic fingers so far,anything else to start with? I know I should go with what I feel comfortable with but I guess everyone got different opinions about this.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Mar 21, 2009 04:07PM)
Magnetic fingers is not going to convince many people you can hypnotize or that they are hypnotized. It still sets the ball rolling though and gives you a chance to observe them under instruction. Magnetic hands will get them wondering, possibly fascinated. A hand lock and regardless of what they are thinking you are ready to proceed further.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Mar 21, 2009 04:19PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-21 14:14, Anthony Jacquin wrote:

I forgot to say, experiencing failure is part of the learning process....
Just tell yourself it is them not you and move on :)

Anthony
[/quote]

I would suggest the attitude that there is no such thing as failure, only feedback.

What did you learn from the experience? How can you use that learning to make sure you succeed next time you encounter a person similar to this one?
Message: Posted by: daghank (Mar 21, 2009 04:27PM)
I thought magnetic fingers is pretty convincing as richard nongard said that's the one he uses most of the time on the dvd,

how many convincers are good to go before starting with the induction?"
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Mar 21, 2009 04:35PM)
LOL. It is if you are The Hypnotist. Richard is, so I am guessing his work is as good as done bar the flourish when he has done magic fingers. That is what you should aim for.

However you are still learning and may have to work a bit harder to raise what can seem like a schoolboy trick into something convincing. Use it.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: Jamie D (Mar 21, 2009 05:11PM)
C.W.G I'm glad you posted this post as I have recently got into hypnosis as well. I started with self hypnosis by dick stuphen then got Nongards learn hypnosis,a really good book that I'm reading now is medicine of the mind by Dr Michael D.Preston,again I no nothing of hynosis as to what every one else here has posted but I have found this book to be very knowledgeble.I'm looking foward to joining more of these post in the furure when I no more lol

Darren
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Mar 22, 2009 03:31AM)
IMO, one convincing convincer is enough. If you're not sure, you might want to do two or even three. Remember, each convincer can also be turned into a deepener. However, I don't think doing more than three is really necessary.
Message: Posted by: kingjay (Mar 22, 2009 12:52PM)
I don't do any convincers or sug tests b4 induction.. maybe I'm skipping a traditional step.. but.. my type of crowd would think its cheesy... I jump right in
Message: Posted by: bobser (Mar 22, 2009 01:59PM)
Cheesy? I'm not sure why. are you early teens?
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Mar 23, 2009 01:04PM)
Kingjay, a convincer is designed to prove someone is hypnotized. Why would you do one before inducing hypnosis?

It's not a traditional step to convince someone they're hypnotized before they are hypnotized.
Message: Posted by: andyboyhypnotist (Mar 23, 2009 03:44PM)
Sorry to drop this in here,
what is IMO?

kingjay,
no tests?/convincers?
cheesey?
jump right in?
please shed some light on your opener and audience id would love to hear what your
show is all about, it sounds v interesting
thanks
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Mar 23, 2009 03:59PM)
You can of course use them post induction. That is fine. I also use convincers in the run up to an induction. It convinces people they are about to be or are being hypnotized. If the subject happens to be extremely good at them - by that I mean their unconscious response is strong and they are fighting the effect and losing then I will often turn it into the induction.

I admire KingJays approach if he just goes straight in for the induction.

It's all good :)

Ant
Message: Posted by: kingjay (Mar 23, 2009 06:27PM)
Let me clarify.. I don't do any of the traditional "sug tests" .. like "okay everyone... clasp ur hands..etc..look !bur fingers are magnetic..etc" .. I know a lot of people do.. but my crowds are 21-40 y/o drinking... "hollywood hipster" types.. to them, that's cheesy... theyre "too cool" for that.. (but not to cool to have sex with a chair?) ... like I said.. maybe I'm skipping a traditional step?? to me.. its wasting time , I could be getting into the "real" show. my crowd would rather see girls on chairs, than theyre hands clasped! that's all .. do what works for you! (maybe I just get lucky)
Message: Posted by: kingjay (Mar 23, 2009 06:31PM)
Btw-thanks anthony for admiring my approach... I hope to oneday get to your level of mastery.... I consider myself a "new school" hypnotist .. I'm just a rocker, in it for the fame, girls, drugs, money... far from traditional
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Mar 24, 2009 01:29PM)
IMO= In My Opinion.

Anthony, I guess it's a matter of word choice. It's true that we can use the same techniques before or after induction. Before induction I would refer to them as suggestibility tests. After induction I would refer to them as convincers.

However, I generally would not use the same techniques pre and post induction. Everyone works differently.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Mar 26, 2009 05:23AM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-23 19:31, kingjay wrote:
Btw-thanks anthony for admiring my approach... I hope to oneday get to your level of mastery.... I consider myself a "new school" hypnotist .. I'm just a rocker, in it for the fame, girls, drugs, money... far from traditional
[/quote]

Hey!!! Don't you think for one minute mister that Anthony doesn't get his fair share of fame, girls, cucumbers and money!,
Message: Posted by: kingjay (Mar 27, 2009 06:29PM)
Cucumbers??!! awesome.. didn't even think id score those! ... sweet
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Apr 18, 2009 12:22AM)
The 8 step method Im studying has suggestigility tests before induction then 3 convincers during induction. I will he bappy when I can just "wing" it. :lol:


PS: Experience level: 7 yr old daughter (unknown induction) and stuffed Dora doll (pretty sure under each time, she has that stare).

Candin
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Apr 20, 2009 07:15PM)
Like Kingjay I don't do suggestibility tests or convincers. I do a warm-up - gags and mentalism. Then I jump into the induction. It works for me. It is faster and mors showey than the more traditional approach.
As regards the original question - never practice on friends or family. Memorise your script thoroughly, then jump straight in. My first induction was carried out during my first stage show. If you do this, pretend that you are a world famous expert, and walk on stage as if you believe it. Your confidence will carry over to your audience.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Apr 20, 2009 11:26PM)
Confidence to me is the greatest hurdle.

C