(Close Window)
Topic: The "problem" with low stakes home games.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 5, 2007 01:00PM)
There is one thing that really ****es me off about home games where people don't play for stakes that make them uncomfortable. It's great if you are stealing money, but it completely ruins the game and renders one of the most important aspects of poker obsolete otherwise.

Anyone know what it is that ****es me off so much?
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Dec 5, 2007 01:36PM)
The thrill is gone? Lets hear it.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 5, 2007 01:39PM)
Well, see if someone gets it. It so fundamental that someone who plays home games must have come across it.
Message: Posted by: walking_liberty (Dec 5, 2007 01:51PM)
They call all your bluffs?
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 5, 2007 02:00PM)
Bingo!

Not only that they draw to every single hand and play it to the bitter end. The game becomes a joke. If you have some kind of max bet it's even more of a joke. Like I said, if you are taking them off it's great, you can max out on *** near every deal. But if you are playing on the square it's lame as hell. You can't do anything with these ****s.

It's almost impossible to get the guys to bet over their heads. So it's almost impossible to play poker with them. You might as well play indian poker, nothing matters.
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Dec 5, 2007 02:26PM)
You gotta loosen em up. Rounds of shots help. Before you know it they are all riding the edge. I have a regular with all butch lesbians and me the only guy. Its my favorite home game. Gets pretty foul too compared to just guys. At times there is side betting right over the top of an active poker game and side betting on unrelated stuff altogether, like a three ring circus. I never moved in that game once. Its far too much fun to mess up.

The fun in home games is you gotta float through several till you find folks that are fun to play with. Sometimes we laugh at that game to the point we wake up with sore ribs. Money still changes hands freely.

Lifes too short to get stuck in a dead head rut. Move on till you find some good regulars.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 5, 2007 02:38PM)
I love a good home game. I just had bad poker. And if people aren't willing to get out of their comfort zones, you get bad poker. What is poker without bluffing? Nothing.
Message: Posted by: reasons14 (Dec 5, 2007 02:41PM)
I have been fortunate to find a regular game for really small stakes where the players are top notch. I think it is important for those who work in poker the majority of the time to find one of these games. It helps keep ones square game tight so when one is moving, they better understand situations.

I feel you though vandy, if they stakes aren't good enough and your not learning anything, I would just leave. But if you are moving and the stakes are decent while playing with a bunch of calling stations, I'd stay for a bit.

-Reasons
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Dec 5, 2007 03:23PM)
Remind me to tell you about the guy that folded 26 times in a row, when I get time. Believe it or not he got a free seat at the WPT. No justice at all. that's when I started looking for fun people, instead of fun games. I still sit down in a few big ones every year, but once you taste fun, those are kind of lacking too.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Dec 5, 2007 10:54PM)
That's exactly why you can't teach your kids to play poker if you play "just for chips"
While they can learn the rules, they can't learn strategy and tactics. If it's just chips, it doesn't hurt to lose. If it doesn't hurt to lose, you never learn to play.
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (Dec 5, 2007 11:18PM)
Raise blinds? That's what we do. Otherwise play gets boring, and the game takes forever.

That's all I got...
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 6, 2007 12:26AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-06 00:18, BenTrain (Nordatrax) wrote:
Otherwise play gets boring, and the game takes forever.
[/quote]

"Forever" is not really a bad thing if you're working a game. That's why I prefer cash games.

CC
Message: Posted by: reasons14 (Dec 6, 2007 12:36AM)
I think most prefer cash games when working. As far as raising the blinds, that's great, but I think that's the problem he is talking about.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 6, 2007 01:58AM)
If you hate home games, then don't play at any low stakes table in any California Card Room. You will be against 8 guys who will alternately ride you to the river with third pair and draw out. Also, the "NO ENGLISH" rule is weakly adhered to. You will hear Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, Arabic, Farsi and Spanish and sometimes all on the same table. Even if the floor slaps their hand, you can bet 5 hands later they'll be back at it.

There is a 40 NLHE game nearby by that is virtually Spanish only and half the table will splash chips to the river playing mid-high card. I've never complained because I comprehend enough Spanish to know they are just severely berating the dealer and each others play.

You can stack a lot of chips playing tables like this but you'll have to be able to stomach the catastrophic bad beats.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 6, 2007 02:09AM)
So the "problem" with low stakes home games is they don't play for high stakes.

Well I can't argue with that! :)
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 6, 2007 08:45AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-06 03:09, tommy wrote:
So the "problem" with low stakes home games is they don't play for high stakes.

Well I can't argue with that! :)
[/quote]

Yep, that's it.
Message: Posted by: bill7 (Dec 6, 2007 04:27PM)
ITS GOTTA HURT IF YOU LOSE. THE STAKES HAVE TO BE HIGH ENOUGH TO HURT. IF IT doesn't BOTHER YOU TO GIVE AWAY MONEY, SEND ME SOME.
BIll G.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 7, 2007 04:59AM)
Will you fix your caps lock if one of us sends you money?

Sometimes, no matter how high the stakes, there always seems to be that one person to whom money means little. I've been in 500 NLHE games where there have been several guys "slumming it" while waiting for a seat to open in a big game. They will go all in just for the fun of it. One time, I sat next to a guy that moved all in 10 times in a row without ever looking at his cards. He annouced his intentions before the deal. He didn't win a single hand but I don't think he really cared. He was looking for some action to pass the time.
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 7, 2007 07:34AM)
What a nice guy...

CC
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Dec 7, 2007 12:32PM)
Poker, in any form, is one of the crappiest card games out there if there isn't money involved. Games like Gin or Euchre can still be fun somehow, but not Poker.
Message: Posted by: bill7 (Dec 7, 2007 02:30PM)
NAH, I WONT BE FIXING MY CAPS LOCK AT ALL ANYTIME SOON. BECAUSE IAM SURE YOU WONT BE SENDING ANY MONEY. So the stakes werent high enough to hurt the guy who kept going all in. HE didn't mind gambling with a 500 blind and going all in 10xs in a row. I cant even imagine how much he lost.WOW those must have been some really huge pots. EVERYONE has to have some kind of limit for pain and humiliation. Especially a 500 blind. so that was the small blind? Or the big blind? BIG BIG POTS. NOw you see that would make me freak out. OF course there are some billionaire freaks of nature. Wouldnt it be nice to be in game with some like that who didn't mind losing. 10xs in a row. I think that's why they invented the world series. To bring the fish to the surface
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 7, 2007 03:14PM)
Actually, the buy in was 500 but the blinds were 5/10. I am not a baller by any means. It didn't matter during that guy's stretch of betting. If you wanted to play, you had to call at least 500 and fade whatever bets after the flop from any other players. He was just killing time while waiting for a seat to open on the 1000 minimum, no maximum buy in table.
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Dec 8, 2007 12:16PM)
If you want to see a low stakes game become a high one...just cold deck 'em giving them all hands and watch how quickly all that money go into the pot; but most of all watch the countenance on their face as they think that they have the best hand to win with and then watch it after they all lose.


Doc
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 8, 2007 04:40PM)
Doc,

Would you be the one to take down that pot or would you wait a couple of hands to hit winner with a low set over top two?

Just wondering,
raw!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 8, 2007 05:34PM)
Don't try this at home kids but:

quote]


2. Increasing the Betting Stakes (35)
After increasing the betting pace, the good player can often increase the betting stakes sharply. Most games can withstand a tenfold to hundred fold increase in the betting stakes. Even when the big losers seem to be at their financial limits, the stakes can usually be increased significantly.
The good player increases the stakes in carefully planned steps. Several temporary increases may be necessary before higher stakes become permanent. But in some games, stakes can be increased immediately and rapidly. Opportunities to increase the stakes occur when players want:
a chance to get even by increasing the ante or stakes in the late hours or during the last round a more equitable relationship to the ante by increasing the first-round or opening bets l a chance to protect a hand by increasing the middle-round bets an opportunity to bet a good hand by increasing the last-round bets. The stakes are normally easier to increase after the betting pace increases. Opposition to higher stakes and game modifications often diminishes when the resisting player is:

Tired, losing heavily or winning big for the evening, on a losing or awinning streak, upset by some occurrence during the game, affected by personal problems drinking.

A good way to increase the stakes is to let those players who want to double the stakes, for example, play at double stakes whenever they are the only players left in the hand.

When John Finn started playing in the Monday night game, it was already seven years old and the stakes had been stabilized for five years. A dollar was the maximum bet, and only straight draw and stud games were allowed. The chart on page 67 shows how both the betting pace and stakes steadily increased after John took control of the game:

-Poker a Guaranteed Income for Life-

[/quote]


:)
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Dec 8, 2007 05:53PM)
Couple more tips to up the game.

1. Work beyond your chip set. That is use a hot stamped set that is stamped low so the whole set is used up and the remainder has to be carried on paper. In our case its always carried over to a high stakes chip set that has 50,100, and 200 chips on the high end. If you don't get what I'm saying move on to 2.

2. Dealers choice any game called.
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 8, 2007 06:54PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 18:53, KingStardog wrote:
1. Work beyond your chip set.
[/quote]

Shhh!

:)

CC
Message: Posted by: luvisi (Dec 9, 2007 08:22PM)
Could calling you every time be an exploitable weakness? Maybe just never bluff, and always bet the limit when you have a strong hand?

Andru
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 9, 2007 08:48PM)
Yes of course you should do the opposite. Its more fun at a tight table though as you can bully everyone. A loose table is not fun as you must play tight.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Dec 9, 2007 08:51PM)
That's a workable strategy luvsi, you play your game, don't let the inevitable suck-outs on the river put you on tilt......and then when you've got a real hand do what you've got to do to get the money into the pot.

Anybody who plays the same way over and over again (calling down to the river with crap) opens the door to being seriously exploited by a more skilled player..........but in the meantime there's those suck-outs :)