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Topic: Basic Coins Across - Feedback Requested
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Dec 7, 2007 05:26AM)
Was hoping I could get some feedback on this routine as well. I realize the video was not very close to adequately see the coins, and I was missing my "volunteer" for the end of the routine, but you guys will get the idea. Thanks in advance for any feedback you can offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03s0jiuU1bo
Message: Posted by: Chad Barnard (Dec 7, 2007 07:27AM)
I thought it looked good. Performance and patter was relaxed and flowing. The only issue I had with it is right before the second coin goes over. Your thumb shoots way out while doing your business.

Roth, and others, recommend keeping your thumb and forefinger touching. Some people use misdirection, or fancy hand movements, to get around this and that's fine. In this case, you did neither and, as a spectator, it seemed like a suspicious moment.
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Dec 7, 2007 07:30AM)
Chad, thanks for the feedback. When looking at the video myself just minutes after shooting it, I noticed the very same thing. I have tried to no avail to keep my thumb and finger together, but I have a hard time with it. I suppose my best bet is to misdirect. Other than coin No. 2, the rest looked ok?
Message: Posted by: Chad Barnard (Dec 7, 2007 08:56AM)
Yep.

Hopefully others will weigh in, but it looked good to me.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Dec 7, 2007 09:13AM)
I wouldn't cross my hands on coin 3 across. People might think somehow you secretly dropped a coin from hand to hand. It is not neccessary method wise.

At that phase in the routine you are holding 4 coins at the fingertips spread your arms out, put distance between the coins. Roth has them both drop into his hand at this point, and then shows the coin transit.

Here is a tip, when I perform this routine, it occured to me, holding all the coins at the fingertips like that during a coins across routine lends itself to a visible (4 Fly??) type transit for this one phase.
Message: Posted by: Wes65 (Dec 7, 2007 10:04AM)
Corbett, I thought it was a nice routine. The cp's need a little work, but I've seen few cp's, including my own, that didn't need a little work. I thought the spider vanish at the end was great.
Message: Posted by: TWOCAN (Dec 7, 2007 10:07AM)
Roll up the sleeves and keep the distance between hands and only connect hands when doing the dirty work. Otherwise good job and keep up the good work.
Message: Posted by: Wes65 (Dec 7, 2007 10:11AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-07 08:27, Chad Barnard wrote:
Your thumb shoots way out while doing your business.

Roth, and others, recommend keeping your thumb and forefinger touching. Some people use misdirection, or fancy hand movements, to get around this and that's fine. In this case, you did neither and, as a spectator, it seemed like a suspicious moment.
[/quote]

I've got the perfect misdirection for the cp if you are in Texas (esp during college football season). Every time you cp, just let you thumb and pinky do what they are inclined to do and say "hook'em horns".....(If you don't watch American college football you won't get the joke).
Message: Posted by: housermagic (Dec 7, 2007 10:17AM)
Very nicely done.
Bill
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Dec 7, 2007 10:36AM)
Wow, thanks everyone for the great feedback. I appreciate everyone taking the time to weigh-in. I am making notes as I read through the thread. Better cp's, sleeves up, and more distance between hands on coin 3. Thanks again guys.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Dec 7, 2007 02:29PM)
Lookin good man! Same basic comments as already made but also maybe think about a benzais (sp) for the 2nd coin?!?!
Look forward to seeing more!
Mick
Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (Dec 9, 2007 02:51AM)
Looks nice to me, too.

Thanks for sharing.

Andre
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Dec 16, 2007 08:28AM)
Nice routine, and I agree with all of the comments above. Nice table too- where did you get it?
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Dec 16, 2007 06:47PM)
I built that table from some instructions on Michael Ammar's website. This is the table he uses, because he designed it himself. It's the best magic table I've owned, it looks expensive, but isn't, and it was a piece of cake to make.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Wayne (Dec 16, 2007 08:24PM)
I like the table very much. Looks nice, and I'm glad to hear it was easy to make.

The routine itself, as with [i]many[/i] "Coins Across" routines, suffers the fatal flaw of violating Darwin Ortiz's "No Contact Rule" - which states:[quote][b] "...if an effect involves an object traveling from point A to point B, the effect will be substantially stronger if point A and point B never come in contact with each other [/b][i]Strong Magic, p.67 - 69[/i] [/quote]

Roth's "Shell Coins Across" and Jennings' "Peripatetic Coins" (two [i]very[/i] similar routines) fail this test miserably - and are weak because of that.

If you like the "Coins Across" plot you would do well to eliminate the practice of continually bringing all (or most) of the coins - and both hands - together throughout the routine. Failing to address this critical flaw will always result in an inferior effect, and there are a number of great ways around the problem. However, continually re-counting the coins and fumbling them around between your hands prior to each "magical" phase is just bad magic, in my opinion.

[quote][b] "The bulk of what most magicians perform will always reflect what is easiest to do, [i]NOT WHAT HAS THE STRONGEST IMPACT ON AN AUDIENCE.[/b] Strong Magic, p. 69 [emphasis added][/i][/quote]

TW
Message: Posted by: Bob Gerdes (Dec 16, 2007 08:41PM)
Good job with the Spider Vanish at the end... it looked very nice.
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Dec 19, 2007 08:04PM)
I'm with Dan on the idea of trying to avoid crossing the hands during one of the phases as the spec's will be drawn into thinking that you transfered a coin at this point (even though you're not).

The spider vanish was very convincing.
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Dec 20, 2007 07:20AM)
Good going,it's not easy when you are trying to film yourself but you did well...

I agree as above about not crossing the hands because a spec might think you did some think sneaky at that point...but overall I enjoyed your performance..

Best

Blade.
Message: Posted by: Magix (Dec 20, 2007 07:43AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-07 08:30, ctroyer wrote:
Chad, thanks for the feedback. When looking at the video myself just minutes after shooting it, I noticed the very same thing. I have tried to no avail to keep my thumb and finger together, but I have a hard time with it. I suppose my best bet is to misdirect.
[/quote]

I had the same problem with my thumb. I solved it by keeping a coin in CP as often as I could, while watching TV for example, and continually moving the coin from CP to Fingertip Rest and back again, always keeping my thumb against the side of my first finger.

It was tough at first, but now whenever I start to palm a coin my thumb goes up against my first finger automatically.

I think that's a better bet than misdirection.

The rest of the routine looked nice.
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Dec 20, 2007 07:54AM)
Thanks for the feedback guys. I've appreciated the comments from everyone.
Message: Posted by: delgadil (Dec 27, 2007 07:07PM)
You have a very solid Spider Vanish -- very well done! I can't get mine to look as beautiful as yours.

I love this Roth routine and find it is very strong for laypeople.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Dec 28, 2007 07:58AM)
Thanks for your kind feedback Kevin. I do like the Spider Vanish, and think it's a fun sleight to perform.
Message: Posted by: Dan Paulus (Dec 29, 2007 10:00AM)
Looks good. You can keep the crossing of the hands if you'll just cross them very slowly and don't let the fists touch.
My only other suggestion would be to hold still. You tend to shift a little.

I took a look at your other clip too, Presto Change-O, I enjoyed it as well.
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Jan 1, 2008 11:14PM)
Go back and re-read the Roth routine paying close attention to how he blocks the moment where he palms the coin before the second transfer. It will teach you a great deal about a very important part of doing coin magic: the moment when to.

Your Spider vanish is indeed good, which is important for this routine as it is what provides for a "clean" ending.

Also, try to minimize the arm movements a bit.

best,
bill
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Jan 2, 2008 09:43AM)
Thanks Bill. Great advice.
Message: Posted by: Douglas.M (Jan 12, 2008 12:46AM)
I agree with the above posts, I think you are on the road to a good presentation.

To keep the thumb from wandering, use the "okay" exercise: every time you CP, force yourself to pinch your thumb and forefinger together ending in a downward-facing "okay" sign, over and over, on your lunch break, on the train to work, until you don't even have to think about it. Then it will be "okay".

This is just a suggestion: try some non-gaffed versions to really hone your chops and increase your magic mojo, and then when you feel like you can do it in your sleep, add a gaff if you still want to:

Paul Harris: PDQ Coins Across

David Williamson: Cross-eyed Coins Across

Gregory Wilson: Open Palm Coins Across

Roth or Johnny Thompson's version of Winged Silver


Sleights can get one through lack of gaffs, but gaffs cannot replace sleights.



Douglas M.