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Topic: Christains and violent illusions
Message: Posted by: Jack Diamond (Dec 8, 2007 10:36AM)
I'm wondering if it sensible as a Christian, to do illusions involving blood.....you know like amputations and flesh penetrations? I understand that its not a good idea to go around church performing tricks like that, though. But what about doing it at all?

Is it possible to use it in gospel magic?
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Dec 8, 2007 01:36PM)
It all depends how you use it...In a church setting, it probably won't fly...I did a sword thru neck several years ago and it freaked out the pastor's wife and she asked me not to do that kind of thing...You have to remember, you need to tailor your act to the audience your performing for.

You have to remember, you're a guest, they may have hired you, but we as performers still need to be gracious and respect those we are performing for, and one of the ways to do that is by knowing your audience.
Message: Posted by: Tony Brent (Dec 8, 2007 10:45PM)
I agree with Terry; it depends on your audience, and how you use it and why you are using it. My rule of thumb is; if I'm performing somewhere and I have a routine that is "questionable", then I don't do that routine, pure and simple. Then there is no doubt or worry.

Tony Brent
Outta Control Magic Show
Orlando
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Dec 9, 2007 08:28AM)
I don't hold back for anybody. A lot of Christians need a good dose of the real world and if they feel that what I do is questionable, then that is their own lack of judgment on their part.

Furthermore, Jesus talks about how you can tell where a man's heart truly lies by looking at the fruit they bare. If someone is going to judge me, and even go as far as judging me by their own standards, then in my eyes, they are NOT the type of fellowship that I want to be around.

Jesus says if your hand is turned against you, cut it off. If Christians are going to act childish in regards to what I do, then to me, they are a part of the body of Christ that must be cut off...

...I don't put up with petty bickering like that. I'm too busy fulfilling a purpose than satisfying people that are still stuck in the traditional past.

Then again, my type/style of magic is quite different.

||sean ||
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Dec 9, 2007 12:46PM)
When it comes to ministry, you've got to have a different mindset than an arts mindset...Paul said that he became all things to all people that he might win some...the object is not to compromise the message, the means of which we share the uncompromised message can and should change depending on who we are ministering to.
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Dec 9, 2007 05:13PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-09 09:28, Tempesta wrote:
I don't hold back for anybody. A lot of Christians need a good dose of the real world and if they feel that what I do is questionable, then that is their own lack of judgment on their part.

Furthermore, Jesus talks about how you can tell where a man's heart truly lies by looking at the fruit they bare. If someone is going to judge me, and even go as far as judging me by their own standards, then in my eyes, they are NOT the type of fellowship that I want to be around.

Jesus says if your hand is turned against you, cut it off. If Christians are going to act childish in regards to what I do, then to me, they are a part of the body of Christ that must be cut off...

...I don't put up with petty bickering like that. I'm too busy fulfilling a purpose than satisfying people that are still stuck in the traditional past.

Then again, my type/style of magic is quite different.

||sean ||
[/quote]

And your occupation is a Public Relations Representative?

Terry
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Dec 9, 2007 06:27PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-09 18:13, Terry Holley wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-09 09:28, Tempesta wrote:
I don't hold back for anybody. A lot of Christians need a good dose of the real world and if they feel that what I do is questionable, then that is their own lack of judgment on their part.

Furthermore, Jesus talks about how you can tell where a man's heart truly lies by looking at the fruit they bare. If someone is going to judge me, and even go as far as judging me by their own standards, then in my eyes, they are NOT the type of fellowship that I want to be around.

Jesus says if your hand is turned against you, cut it off. If Christians are going to act childish in regards to what I do, then to me, they are a part of the body of Christ that must be cut off...

...I don't put up with petty bickering like that. I'm too busy fulfilling a purpose than satisfying people that are still stuck in the traditional past.

Then again, my type/style of magic is quite different.

||sean ||
[/quote]

And your occupation is a Public Relations Representative?

Terry
[/quote]

No sir. That was a temporary job for Ellusionist. And I stand by my opinion. I'm not doing this for the church, or for Christians. I'm doing it because I have a genuine desire to spread God, and the best way I know how to do that is by being myself and being able to reach all parts of the earth. So instead of listening to ignorant minded people in some church who cant be bothered to study the differences between magic of the old and the magic of today, I listen to God and do my best to follow the path.

[quote]
When it comes to ministry, you've got to have a different mindset than an arts mindset...Paul said that he became all things to all people that he might win some...the object is not to compromise the message, the means of which we share the uncompromised message can and should change depending on who we are ministering to.
[/quote]

I think I'm being misunderstood. I don't have an artist's mindset, I'm talking about having a Christian mindset. They only people who have ever disliked or been turned off by what I do, are very conservative and ignorant[used in the literal sense] Christians.

You hit the nail on the head about Paul. We MUST become all things to all people if we expect to reach anybody and THAT is what I'm doing. I've never done magic for a church audience and don't plan to, and most of the derogatory comments are form those in the church who don't take the time to listen and realize anything other than their own ill-educated opinions. I'm talking about people who want to PROHIBIT me from reaching as many people as possible, because they don't agree with "magic" when they 're ignorant on the subject. Much like everyone is on this Golden Compass bandwagon of hate. Same thing.

Mr Owens, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but it's not me compromising the message, it's the comfortable Christians who don't get with the times.

||sean ||
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Dec 9, 2007 06:33PM)
I also just want to add that if the Sword Through Neck Illusion was appropriate for the occasion in every other sense, that lady who got too freaked out and complained could've easily "not watched."

From the way I'm hearing that story, it sounds very judgmental on her part to act the way she did. If the audience liked it and it worked, keep doing it and add a disclaimer.

I'm personally not promoting that everyone do violent, extreme stuff for Christian audiences and church settings. I'm only giving my opinion of not "changing for the world."

Also, just went back and re-read some stuff and I want to clarify. I agree with tailoring your act to your audience. What I mean by not holding back for anybody is that my material is liked and well accepted among everyone I have performed for, with the exception of certain people. I've never performed something that my whole audience didn't like because I DID conform to them and used material that was relevant to them. It's always been certain people though who like to gossip and confront me about what I do, and then try to tell me how and what I SHOULD be doing.

I'm not going to change for them, and I'm definitely not going to hold back for them either.

||sean ||
Message: Posted by: Payne (Dec 10, 2007 09:51AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-09 19:27, Tempesta wrote:

And I stand by my opinion. I'm not doing this for the church, or for Christians. I'm doing it because I have a genuine desire to spread God, and the best way I know how to do that is by being myself and being able to reach all parts of the earth. So instead of listening to ignorant minded people in some church who cant be bothered to study the differences between magic of the old and the magic of today, I listen to God and do my best to follow the path.


I think I'm being misunderstood. I don't have an artist's mindset, I'm talking about having a Christian mindset. They only people who have ever disliked or been turned off by what I do, are very conservative and ignorant[used in the literal sense] Christians.

I'm talking about people who want to PROHIBIT me from reaching as many people as possible, because they don't agree with "magic" when they 're ignorant on the subject.

[/quote]

I'll bet Torquemada felt the same way too.

Why all the hostility here (or at least what I'm sensing as hostility)?
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Dec 10, 2007 01:28PM)
That's my fault regarding the hostility. I' just passionate about what I believe, that's all. Sorry if I come off as angry, I don't mean to. : )

||sean ||
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Dec 16, 2007 02:47PM)
Hey Tempesta,
I have to admit that I'm some what bothered by what you say here in this post, but I suppose you'll just tell me that it's my problem to deal with. As Christian's we are supposed to be loving to people. In any Christian ministry that should be our first goal, representing God's love!Respect is another big one. If we can't respect other people or their views we can't expect them to respect us. It's good that you want to reach people with God's message, but to what extent is what you need to ask yourself. I fail to see how stabbing a sword through one's throat glorifies God or helps illustrate a gospel message. You are right that we can tell what kind of a Christian someone is by the fruit they bare, but the fruit I see being shown here is one of hostility, and an attitude of, "I don't give a hoot what other people think, I'll do whatever I want". I know this wasn't your exact words but I believe it's the attitude you are revealing. Ask yourself this. "What kind of fruit are other people seeing in me?" You are still young and I have taken that into consideration in responding to your post. But, it seems that you are more concerned about doing things your way than the kind of response you might have on other people. If you think that I am judging you, I'm not judging you but only your statements that you've made. To be completely honest, I don't think they are appropiate of someone who is a Christian. This doesn't mean I think you're a bad person or anything, I don't know you enough to make that kind of judgememnt. I just think you have more room in your heart than you may be giving yourself time for.
Message: Posted by: Clark (Dec 18, 2007 10:21AM)
You'd think they wouldn't mind it - seeing as how the "Passion" was basically one long bloody beating, and the top grossing Christian movie of all time....
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Dec 18, 2007 10:47AM)
Tempesta...I like folks with passion, we need more of it. But what we need to remember, just because some don't like "gospel" magic it doesn't mean they are trying to keep you from spreading the Gospel. I am a Pentecostal preacher, I preach with a whole lot of energy, and I would probably find more churches who don't want that type of preaching than a few individuals who don't like the concept of using magic to spread the word. All of those who don't like my style of preaching hasn't kept me from spreading the word...

You can't reach everyone the same way, but as Christians, it's up to us to find our style of evangelism and go for it...your cutting edge style is probably what it takes to reach a teens to 20's (the I'm not in church) type crowd and I would say go for it. I've been blasted by "Christian Magicians" for my style of magic and the way I present the message, but that's okay, I'm called to reach the ones who will connect to my style, just as you are called to reach those who connect with your style.
Message: Posted by: karbonkid (Dec 18, 2007 11:17AM)
The Lord works in mysterious ways, so why can't we? To each their own, I say. Some people say my Jesus Sven**** deck is not Christian...I don't listen though.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Dec 18, 2007 04:25PM)
I fully enjoy using magic and illusion to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When I first thought of the idea to combine my magic skills and Gospel truths I wasn't aware that there was even such a thing. I was so glad and relieved to know that many more Christians were already years a head of me on the idea of combining magic tricks with biblical scriptures and lessons. This helped my transition much more easily because other Christians already faced the issue and problems that most churches had years ago about gospel magic. Many good articles have since been written in support of gospel magic, and some churches began to open their doors to the idea of it, even allowing gospel magicians to perform for the congregation.

Magic, as a tool to witness to someone, or to preach the Gospel to is just that, a tool. We as Christian performers should always be interrested in how other people perceive us. We should always be considerate to whomever we perform for, or witness to. And, the magic should always be secondary to the message. The trick is the tool to help illustrate the message.

We have the freedom to do whatever we want to, but we all know that not everything we have the freedom to do is healthy for us spiritually. We still have to ask ourselves questions don't we. Will this certain trick freak people out? If we might think there is a chance that it will, we shouldn't use it. If we think it'll work with the type of crowd that we have, and it doesn't compromise our faith in Christ then we should go for it.

We should also be respectful to those who don't except gospel magic. We made a personal choice, and they have made a personal choice, all from the same freedom God gave to each of us. They're not wrong for feeling that way anymore than we are wrong for perfoming gospel magic. I would love to speak with most of them that don't except gospel magic and perhaps have an opportunity to help persuade them to think otherwise, but I think the best approach is to let God be God. I don't think it would be appropriate to convey the attitude of I don't care what other people think. As christians we should care very much, or at least try to care about what other people think.

I am sure that there are Christians out there who would love to see a blood and gore gospel magic show, but I would surely hope that all the blood and gore would not be the message of the show, leaving the original message as the tool to present the blood and gore. Just my thought!
Message: Posted by: robwar0100 (Dec 19, 2007 02:39AM)
This has been an excellent discussion. I stay away from violent effects in my routine because they do not fit my personality. When we perform, are we doing it for ourselves? The one who paid for the show? The audience? To glorify God? Why do we perform? To show others how awesome we are? To entertain? To educate? To minister?

The Apostle Paul addresses a church out of balance in the book of First Corinthians. In it, he says all things are permissible, but not everything is beneficial. The blood and gore and violence may have its place for a targeted audience, but I choose to stay away from anything sadistic or masochistic (not sure of my spelling on those words). Paul also talks about Christians who are suing one another in secular court. He tells them before suing it would have been better to be wronged than to take the matter to those outside of the church. He also tells us to be careful in how we deal with the weaker brother.

It might be perfectly OK to do a violent show, but if it offends anyone, we should not do it, regardless of our passion.

Blessings,

Bobby
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Dec 19, 2007 06:49PM)
For a family show (which is what your church audience is made up of), it is in poor taste to do any type of violent or disection type of illusion IMHO.

Remember what Paul said about eating meat sacrificed to idols......

David
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Dec 19, 2007 08:27PM)
Bobby asks a good question because there is a BIG difference between a church hiring you for a show (let's say just for entertainment or a fund raiser), and a church bringing you in for an Evangelistic event. They are 2 different types of performances with 2 different objectives. I feel if they bring me in for Evangelistic efforts, then they should have done their homework and make sure my style of ministry fits what they want to accomplish. If I'm hard core and my magic is on the edge and they can't handle that, they don't bring me in. But if they are a cutting edge church and want something radical to reach out to the lost, then an edgy style of program might be for them.

Even though I perform secular shows, I prefer to go to churches, because for me, it's all about ministering to people and winning souls. If that didn't take place, I would feel like I've failed. I've done events that took place at the Super Dome in New Orleans as well as State wide meetings in different states, but it was all about ministry, and my tool to minister happens to utilize the magical arts.

I also enjoy performing for secular audiences because I enjoy entertaining, but what really jazzes me up and turns me on is a chance to minister to an audience. That is where God has gifted me and I feel I really excel in this area. My heart is to bring the same level of quality that you would get from a talented performer, to the church...but the bottom line is my ministry does not fit, nor does it need to fit, every church.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Dec 19, 2007 09:39PM)
Great post Terry! You make a lot of points and speak from experience. I also liked what Darkwing said.

What I liked most about your post Terry is how you seperate the two types of Christian Magicians. It's interresting because I'm currently writing an essay on just that subject. I won't get into it all now cause that will be just getting way off topic for this thread.

Getting back onto topic. I just can't see how grossing someone out edifies Christ. Christians have to be careful when using magic. We can't leave them to believe we have supernatural powers, or that we're spiritually gifted and able to perform miracles. And, our objective shouldn't be to shock or gross our audience with blood and gore just to get them to hear God's Word, no matter who the audience is. I don't go get drunk at a bar so I can witness to people in there. Christians who don't perform gospel magic, but stick to the mainstream audience should also act Christ-like as is proper of anyone who claims to worship the name of Jesus.Putting the magic aside, what I'm saying is as Christians we need to conduct ourselves as followers of Christ. We are Christian first.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Dec 20, 2007 09:46AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 22:39, Gospel Dan wrote:

And, our objective shouldn't be to shock or gross our audience with blood and gore just to get them to hear God's Word, no matter who the audience is.

[/quote]

Gee, I wish someone had told Mel Gibson this before he made The Passion :)
Message: Posted by: Clark (Dec 20, 2007 10:14AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-20 10:46, Payne wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 22:39, Gospel Dan wrote:

And, our objective shouldn't be to shock or gross our audience with blood and gore just to get them to hear God's Word, no matter who the audience is.

[/quote]

Gee, I wish someone had told Mel Gibson this before he made The Passion :)
[/quote]


My point exactly a little higher up in this thread.... ;)
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Dec 20, 2007 10:48AM)
You're not comparing apples to apples. Two entirely different things, in order for the Passion of the Christ to be portrayed correctly on film, it had to show those scenes or else you have another fluff movie about Jesus. Those scenes were historically accurate, and I for one was stirred and moved as I watched the movie. It was not meant to be a popcorn movie, it was meant to be thought provoking and spiritually moving.

What redeeming value does shock magic bring? Amusement? Hmmmm A-meaning not, muse to think...
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Dec 20, 2007 11:00AM)
The Passion Of Christ was a hollywood made movie, and Mel Gibson is an anti-semitic,alcoholic,womanizer, so I fail to see the point of bringing up either Mel Gibson or his version of the "Passion".

However, I should of asked this question sooner, but I'll ask it now. What kind of blood and gore are we talking about here?. Not that I think that any blood and gore is appropriate, but I always love healthy debates over what is appropreciate for Christians and what is not appropriate for Christians. As Christians we shouldn't try to keep each other on seperate sides of the fence, but always work for unity in the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ. I think it's only appropriate that we start using scripture to support our beliefs, this will help weed out those who don't take the time to actually read God's Word.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think. But set your mind to be right-minded, even as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Dec 20, 2007 11:11AM)
I know it sounds like I just passed judgement on poor Mel Gibson, but I am only reliterating what I've read about him in the news and magazines. I just thought I should clear that up before I get rebuked for turning against Mel Gibson.(lol)
As for the movie, "Passion Of Christ" I hope to avoid making any comment on it because Terry says it very well.
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Dec 20, 2007 12:25PM)
Thanks Gospel Dan...by the way, I have Canadians who are members of my church.
Message: Posted by: GlenD (Dec 22, 2007 07:50PM)
I guess if you don't have an audience you can be as self absorbed and stubborn, regarding your material, as you want to be.

GlenD
Message: Posted by: Jack Diamond (Jan 5, 2008 01:57PM)
Pardon my late reply, the computer had(and still has) a problem.

I agree a bit with everyone, I'm in a way neutral.......

Like some of you said, it all runs down to who you are performing for-and how.
I wont agree with trying to make your magic seem sadistic though, that couldn't possibly be glorying Jesus!

Thanks every one!
Message: Posted by: FriarShaun (Feb 8, 2008 05:08PM)
What I find interesting is how often the use of graphic content offends the same people who gorge on this material through television, movies, and video games. Because I work with youth, I often use illustrations, pictures, and concepts that are graphic. I don't do this gratuitously, I do it with purpose. Shock, humor, tragedy, and offense are emotions. Emotion is like a door to the soul, when properly coupled with truth they can be very affective at reaching people who are asleep spiritually. We must be careful not to manipulate people with emotion, but when it allows an opening for truth it is but an aspect of the human design God gave for this very purpose.
Message: Posted by: Ed_Millis (Feb 9, 2008 09:58AM)
There's got to be a distinction made between the principles you hold and the methods you use: if you change your principles to suit your audience, you're a hypocrite (or a presidential candidate!!); if you change your methods to suit your audience, you're an evangelist.

If you refuse to ever change anything for another person, then don't ever get married!! And understanding that marriage is a picture of our relationship to Jesus and how He expects us to change for Him, the person who refuses to change thier affections and ideas of right and wrong will never have a deep relationship with Jesus, Who comes into our life to change us.

Maturity is knowing the difference between what needs to be set in stone and what can be altered to facilitate a relationship, and how far you can take the alteration without compromising your core beliefs and principles.

To say "take me as I am or leave me alone!" is a very selfish idea. Jesus takes me as I am, but He doesn't leave me alone.

Jack Diamond asked about doing certain effects for certain audiences. The answer is a clear-cut "it depends". Who is your audience? What is the impact you want to make? Are you trying to make simply an emotinal impact? Or are you trying to use the impact to carry home a message? Will the emotional impact of the effect overwhelm your message, so they remember only the effect and not the message?

While Tempesta makes some very good observations about Christians who don't live in the real world (as I used to be), I think the "take me as I am or you are wrong" mentality is too much like the "world" (using the Romans 12 definition). If you are hired for a show and they know your material and hired _you_ because of what _you_ do, then by all means do what you do! But if you go into a situation where there are people you know might be offended, and you would rather offend to make a point than bend to present a message, then you are wrong, in my never-to-be-humble opinion (<g>!!).

Ed
Message: Posted by: Ethan the emazing (Feb 9, 2008 10:30AM)
I also agree it depends on your style and the crowd your performing for. What some teens find "cool" and interesting, some people may not. What reaches them, may not reach others.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Feb 10, 2008 12:16AM)
Just as long as it's biblical, spiritually healthy, and glorifying to God.
Message: Posted by: FriarShaun (Feb 11, 2008 06:28PM)
Whoah Deja Vu
Message: Posted by: Ethan the emazing (Feb 20, 2008 09:28AM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-10 01:16, Gospel Dan wrote:
Just as long as it's biblical, spiritually healthy, and glorifying to God.
[/quote]

Agreed. But if you use it like I usually use most of my magic, you don't have to have a spiritual application. I do magic, then separately present the gospel/tract. The reason I do this is because I've found people are more likely to read or hear what you have to say if I show them a few tricks first.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Feb 20, 2008 12:25PM)
You keep doing what you're doing Ethan, and be consistent. God will use you as I'm sure he already has to lead people to you who are ready to hear God's Word, and be convicted of their sins. You may never know it, but some who have received a tract from you might of gone home that day and cried out to God Almighty!
Message: Posted by: Kerry Kistler (Feb 20, 2008 04:06PM)
Hey Gang,

You may find an article I wrote useful. It was published in the Christian Conjurer and can be read on my site at http://www.kistlerministry.org/magic

Look for the title "To Chop Or Not To Chop." It deals mostly with choppers but the principles could be applied to other "violent" tricks.

Cheers,
Kerry
Message: Posted by: Terry Owens (Feb 20, 2008 04:22PM)
Thanks Kerry
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Feb 20, 2008 06:01PM)
Hi Kerry,
I'm off topic here but I noticed that you are an FCM forum staff. Would you know how I would go about getting a new membership card? I posted the question on the FCM forum as well, but it's pretty quiet over there. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Kerry Kistler (Feb 20, 2008 09:07PM)
Terry, you're welcome. Hope you find it interesting reading.

Dan, send a note to Mike Stenberg at the FCM Mail Center. He should be able to hook you up. mailcenter@fcm.org

Cheers,
Kerry
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Feb 20, 2008 09:55PM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-20 17:06, Kerry Kistler wrote:
Hey Gang,

You may find an article I wrote useful. It was published in the Christian Conjurer and can be read on my site at http://www.kistlerministry.org/magic

Look for the title "To Chop Or Not To Chop." It deals mostly with choppers but the principles could be applied to other "violent" tricks.

Cheers,
Kerry
[/quote]

Kerry, your article was very well done.

I do not do any type of disection illusion. In a family show, I personally think it is in poor taste.

David
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Feb 20, 2008 10:17PM)
Hi Kerry,

That was the first thing I tried to do, but never got any response. I thought if I posted it in the FCM forum I might get a response, but nil. However, it never hurts to keep trying. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Ethan the emazing (Feb 21, 2008 08:02AM)
Send him another one. I sent three and I finally got a response. It may just take him a bit.
Message: Posted by: Joe Marotta (Feb 23, 2008 12:59PM)
Hi Kerry,

Thanks for a great article about Head Choppers. Well said! I'm forwarding your article to a friend of mine who performs this effect in his gospel and kid shows.

Two summers ago my friend and I performed together at an outdoor show and he had a young girl on stage for his head chopper effect. I felt very bad for her because his premise was that she would be asked a simple question and if answered correctly, would win a valuable prize. But if she lied, she would receive a punishment (head chopper hidden on stage). The magician basically implied she was lying about her answer and used a few gags to 'encourage' her to tell the truth. He even pulled out a large machette knife in a threatening manner to encourage her to tell the truth. When she stuck to her original answer, the penality was revealed, the chopper. The girl was accused of lying, insulted, threatened, and the brunt of his jokes. The audience laughed but the girls face told a different story. I was completely shocked by the performance and almost wished I didn't invite him to perform with me.

I found my friend's head chopper routine very distasteful and inappropriate on many levels. Insulting the spectator by accusing them of lying, threatening them with bodily hard, even asking her father if his daughter always told lies. I'm very surprised the father didn't jump up on stage to rescue his daughter. I certainly would have done so.

So I feel there is no room for a head chopper routine in a children's show, a gospel show, or any show. Let the 'Don Rickles' of the world insult the audience, and let the magicians (especially gospel magicians) show respect to the audience at all times.

Just my 10 cents.

Joe