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Topic: Killer Red Caps.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Dec 16, 2007 11:21AM)
Killer Red caps. This trick has caught my attention. I see a lot of potential in it.It is also a reasonably priced effect at around $15+- Are there any magicians out there who are familiar with the effect?

I think that the effect came out in the late 1990's released by Roger Monaco with routines provided by Bob Kohler, Michael Close and Seth Kramer.The effect itself seems to be an old one which originally came out under the title of 'Psycho Caps' back in around 1970.

Does anyone know if the more recent version brings with it anything new or anything improved?. Both versions currently seem to be on sale.

The effect has the potential (according to the write up) of being very powerful as a mentalist effect. I guess that it might also be presented as a monte style effect. My feeling is that the effect would require skillful presentation to do it justice.

The methodology seems to be very subtle. My only concern is that 'in order to gain the required information' it might well be almost impossible in practice to succeed with the effect. Is this the case? My gut feeling is that this effect is either a very excellent one or a turkey!! Should I look further at this effect or move swiftly on?

With best wishes Andy.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Dec 16, 2007 12:27PM)
It is one of those things that either you will love it or hate it, very little middle ground. You can practice the method without a spectator in order to be able to do the effect properly. I will tell you this, I know that Bob Kohler, who I like very much, got a lot of heat about this routine because people didn't think it was worth while because it requires the right performing conditions and you need to come up with a presentation that will work for you. Basically everything you brought up is accurate, the problem is you won't know if it is excellent or a turkey until you have it.
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Dec 16, 2007 12:31PM)
I would avoid it. I bought it, sold it on Ebay as soon as I could.

Larry
Message: Posted by: Angelo the Magician (Dec 16, 2007 01:26PM)
Thank you Larry, very good idea! I own it since many, many years - and never perform it, because it is in my opinion not performable.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Dec 16, 2007 01:41PM)
See that? The anti crowd outnumber the pro crowd. If anyone is keeping score I also didn't care for it.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Dec 16, 2007 01:59PM)
I made my thread in all innocence and seem to have hit upon an interesting point of concern with this particular effect.I shall wait with an open mind until further comments feed back. My hunch is that we may all be talking about l******g conditions here!However I might be wrong.

With best wishes Andy.
Message: Posted by: tbaer (Dec 16, 2007 05:06PM)
Andy Moss,

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=176295&forum=27

This may be an interesting read for you if you take the time to scroll through all 7 pages.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Dec 16, 2007 05:40PM)
What the heck is l******g?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Dec 16, 2007 06:30PM)
I have it, and use it when the situation is correct.

Let's face it not all material works best in every environment, or with every audience.

We as performers need to pick the appropriate material for the time, place and people we are performing for.

I’ve read a lot on this (and a few other effects) where people pan it (and them) because it has a performance range. But many of the same people use IT and other methods that have similar restrictions.


Tony
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Dec 17, 2007 11:13AM)
Thanks to you all who have posted so far.I have read Bob Kohler's informative advice on the forum link that tbaer kindly provided. Bob does seem like a well meaning and likeable guy. The advice he gave was very useful and specific.

I can now understand why many magicians have not found this effect to be to their taste.This is understandable. Magic Santa,l******g means Lighting conditions! I was being careful not to give anything too sensitive away but seeing that Bob himself has been open and forthright in the past I now feel more free to do so.

As well as the careful positioning of the spectator with respect to lighting the choice of object to go under the cap also appears to be important. Bob mentions that a dark green beer cap works well as well as lifesavers (English fruit Polos?)I guess that the cap has to be red rather than any other colour.

I still say that this sounds like an interesting effect.I agree with Bob Kohler that it might best present as a mental effect with all the three phases.
My only concern remains that many experienced magicians (who you would think would persevere with this and master it if it had practical potential) seem to have panned it.

As MagicSanta wisely says "the problem is you won't know if it is excellent or a turkey until you have it." So I think I will look to make up a set myself and experiment.DW40 water repellent or water bottle tops come to mind. The caps would have to be as thin as possible while seeming to serve their purpose as a barrier to the eye. Nothing to be lost,- possibly nothing also to be gained!!

With best wishes to you all Andy.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 25, 2007 07:50PM)
It's WD-40, not DW40.

You won't be able to duplicate the effect without the correct caps.

I found that l******g, v********y and s**e and s***e of the o****t are all of paramount importance. Also v****l acuity.

For my purposes, this one needs to be consigned to the next auction.
Message: Posted by: alannasser (Dec 26, 2007 02:29AM)
May I offer two points?
1. This item has been massively panned on the Café. It's at or close to the top of a number of "Worst Tricks of the Year" lists. The reasonable inference must be that this is a true turkey, a bomb on stilts. Yes, some will say that they actually use this successfully. But for *any* well known trick, the worst included, you can always find someone who will say the same thing. All things considered, a reasonable person will wonder at the hype the producer had the gall to disseminate about this trick.

So what? Here's what:

2. Scarcely is a mantra heard more often on the Café than "If it's good enough for Bob Kohler/Paul Harris/Richard Osterlind/(fill in your favorite Pope of prestidigitation here), it's good enough for me." (I call this "The CC Mantra", if you catch my drift...) Yet each of the above has endorsed certified bombs. So why does the mantra have the immunity of a cockroach? Not only will it just not die, but it persists entirely unscathed. As you've no doubt gathered, this bugs the poop out of me. Readers who find this post irritating may of course devise a withering riposte based on the previous sentence.

Happy holidays,
Alan
Message: Posted by: vmendoza (Dec 26, 2007 06:17PM)
I've seen different threads panning KRC for this reason or that reason, but it seems to me that all the excuses are just that, EXCUSES.

The methodology for this effect is solid. It works. If you can't do it, then it's because YOU can't do it, not because the effect is a dud. It's like saying those 3D picture posters don't work. They DO work, if you can't see the picture, it's because YOU can't see the picture, not because there's something wrong with the poster. The reason you can't do the effect is because of a personal, physical inability. That may be hard to accept, but that's what it boils down to.

I've seen this done with all kinds of objects, from crumpled post-its, wedding bands, lifesavers, and even quarters. I've seen it done and done it myself, repeatedly, and successfully in brightly lit diners, low lit corners in Cafés, peoples living rooms, kitchens, and even a stairwell or two.

Have I had 100% success - no. When I fail, I let them know that there are really no tricks involved, I really am trying to figure out which cap it's under, and I try again. But then if you're honest with yourself, no effect has ever worked 100% of the time.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Dec 30, 2007 06:52PM)
Hi there vmendoza. :)

we havent spoken in ages but last time we did I think we agreed at the end of a disagreement of opinion that it was going to be beers all round if we ever get to meet up. :cheers:

Hope that's still the going to be the case after this post :) because I find your last post (above) a bit hard to fathom. On the occassions when this effect hasn't worked for you what happened? Did you develop a momentary physical inability?or was it that the effect didn't work because it wasn't workable in the conditions you were performing in? I'm guessing (a dangerous thing to do here on the Café I know) that it was the latter which is the very point that the other posters seem to be making in this thread.

I'll still get the 1st round in.

Cheers Neal
Message: Posted by: vmendoza (Dec 31, 2007 10:14AM)
Nice troll. You are very good at that. Before I tear you a new one, let me wish you a Happy New Year. I can understand why you find it diffucult to phathom, It relies on common sense and you've shown that you have a dearth of it.

On the occasions I guessed incorrectly it was because I guessed incorrectly, I did it again and got it right. What the other posters are implying and what you've once again misunderstood, is that it's NOT possible to do. IT IS - physical conditions not withstanding. But according to you, if the printed instructions aren't exact, then a trick is defective. It doesn't say it in the instructions, but I'll tip this to you personally, You can't do this effect at the bottom of a swimming pool, and it's impossible to do if you place a large hornet under each eye-lid. I know that they were remiss in not including such possiblities in the instructions and so I thought I'd pass that on.

I'll pick up the second round.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Dec 31, 2007 11:49AM)
We used to (try) selling these in a magic shop where I worked. It was so bad that most of us couldn't demo it, let alone sell it. Good lighting will help, but will also make the method more visible to the audience.
Message: Posted by: spcarlson (Jan 8, 2008 03:00PM)
I am glad to hear these responses. I bought KRC years ago when I lived in Vegas, I believe it had just come out and was really being pushed as the next really cool thing. I bought it, played with it for a week, then thoroughly frustrated stuck it in a draw and never touched it again. I have a dresser full of this kind of stuff!

Glad to hear others were also a bit disgruntled with KRC. As they say misery always enjoys a little company ;o)

Steven
Message: Posted by: dpmagic (Jan 13, 2008 12:30AM)
It's at the bottom of my magic suitcase.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Jan 13, 2008 08:54AM)
Thanks to everyone for your feedback so far. The weight of opinion seems to suggest that there are better things for me to spend my money on. (for the same price of $15 I could buy John Bannon's wonderful sounding wild card effect 'Call of the wild' for example!)

Andy.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 22, 2008 01:57PM)
This is the only effect a layman has properly performed for me as soon as they saw it..
Message: Posted by: vmendoza (Jan 23, 2008 01:18PM)
A whole lot of magicians proving the Peter Principle.
Message: Posted by: John Bowlin (Jan 23, 2008 02:31PM)
Curiousity has gotten the best of me. No trick as horrible as some claim this one to be could elicit this much attention. I have been hearing about this effect continuously since I got back into magic 3 years ago. Just bought it used on here so I guess I'll find out soon how this alleged troll of a trick gets so much attention.
Message: Posted by: John Bowlin (Jan 23, 2008 02:34PM)
Much as I hate to say it but ...most magicians prove the Peter Principle the moment their magic leaves the sanctity of their living room.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Jan 24, 2008 07:43AM)
Can someone please tell me what on earth is the 'Peter Principle'?!!

Andy.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Feb 3, 2008 02:04AM)
No one knows............................
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Feb 3, 2008 10:56AM)
OK, people will rise or sink to the level of their abilities.

Or as it has been explained for many years, rise to the level of their incompetence.

Tony
Message: Posted by: John Bowlin (Feb 3, 2008 11:09AM)
Ok, I've practiced Killer Red Kaps and put it in practice I feel it's a pretty good effect. It really takes some practice in different conditions to maximize one's proficiency at it and to make it entertaining. Performing it for various spectators I have gotten responses varying from moderate puzzlement to astonishment. I have only failed in the reveal a couple times
and when I did I changed the conditions slightly and it only seemed to validate my abilities when I did later prove to be proficient. I can see where some people will get this and some will not. Those people looking to pull it out of the pack, spend one hour on it and then amaze people...will likely be very disappointed.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Feb 3, 2008 11:45AM)
Thank you John.
Message: Posted by: EpAdrAp (May 27, 2008 11:12AM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-23 14:18, vmendoza wrote:
A whole lot of magicians proving the Peter Principle.
[/quote]

vmendoza:

I am glad to see you have found your performance comfort level in KRC.

Regards,
Ep
Message: Posted by: Bendy (May 29, 2008 01:43AM)
Under the right conditions and with a practiced eye, this effect will be applicable for some; though I expect that the the vast majority of those who purchase this effect will never use it.

I bought it a couple of years ago, played with it a bit but never put it into any of my shows or performances. Shortly after opening the effect, I put it back in its packaging and placed it in a drawer - where it remains.
This is not something I can apply to any of my performances. Sure wish I could get that money back and apply it to another effect. ...And I don't say that often.
Message: Posted by: Magic1 (Jan 8, 2010 09:57PM)
Thank you magiccafe for saving me 10 bucks! This is why I LOVE tha magiccafe. And you know what kind of ticks me off? I think this got a great review in Magic Magazine. Thank goodness for a resource where 100's of magicians can weigh in on a product. We are very lucky when it comes to this facet of magic life.

[It's these times that I usually donate something to the Café. If the Café has saved you some money on purchasing something- or if it has taught you something invaluable. How about throwing a couple of bucks their way? Just an idea.
Thanks,
MagicOne
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Jan 9, 2010 04:13PM)
Peter principle, get the book. The shop manager who ends up running everyone's tools is a prime example.

KRC I used to sell a lot of them and that was after telling the buyer that I didn't like it and even showing them a demo. I guess a part of the theatrical experiance is having good lighting, lol.

Go figure.
Message: Posted by: Carlo Conjurana (Aug 8, 2010 12:03PM)
Killer Red Caps is that the same effect as the "Psycho Caps" and if yes does it use the same principle ?

Conjurana
Message: Posted by: LanSy (Aug 6, 2018 04:07AM)
Hello,
Can't find it.
Anyone wanting to sell it to me ?
Message: Posted by: mindmagic (Aug 7, 2018 03:25AM)
It's in Will Dexter's book Feature Magic for Mentalists.

Barry