(Close Window)
Topic: Technology applied to cheating
Message: Posted by: magician8 (Dec 18, 2007 04:28PM)
Is sleight of hand really the way to get the money or should we all stop wasting so much time and starting to use technology for our advantage? The casinos use it to protect themselves so why shouldn't we use it to cheat them?


Magician8
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 18, 2007 04:35PM)
The short answer probably would be "Whatever gets the Money"
Message: Posted by: reasons14 (Dec 18, 2007 05:28PM)
There is a time and a place for both. People obviously don't learn. In another thread around here someone said loaded dice were found in Egyptians tombs. Whatever works and whatever suits you are and your style the best. I think there will always be a time and a place for some good ol sleight of hand.

-Reasons
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 18, 2007 05:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-18 17:28, magician8 wrote:
The casinos use it to protect themselves so why shouldn't we use it to cheat them?
[/quote]

Because cheating casinos is suicidal. The penalties are too great, and the rewards so intense that stopping after one or two good scores is not probable when human greed is considered.

CC
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 18, 2007 10:54PM)
If you donít want to waste your time, my advice is read, every carefully, and in context, anything and everything, Forte says. You could start with this for example:

http://www.elmagicshop.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/Steve_Forte_Interview.html%C2%A0

I trust you will grasp after reading this that your question is answered there.
Message: Posted by: C. Loubard (Dec 19, 2007 12:34AM)
CC

+1
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 19, 2007 03:32AM)
One line poker is wide open to be cheated with technology and a little imagination.
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 11:44AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-18 18:45, card cheat wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-18 17:28, magician8 wrote:
The casinos use it to protect themselves so why shouldn't we use it to cheat them?
[/quote]

Because cheating casinos is suicidal. The penalties are too great, and the rewards so intense that stopping after one or two good scores is not probable when human greed is considered.

CC
[/quote] There are not any penalties at all in my country, so everybody is wellcome to cheat.
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 19, 2007 11:50AM)
There are NO penalties at all in your country for cheating casinos?!?!

Where do you live?

CC
Message: Posted by: C. Loubard (Dec 19, 2007 12:01PM)
[quote]There are NO penalties at all in your country for cheating casinos?!?!

Where do you live?[/quote]

+1 on that one too
Message: Posted by: matu (Dec 19, 2007 12:02PM)
His profile says he lives in Ukraine. Ilya, from what you are saying it sounds that corruption is such a way of life in your country right now that cheating is like "legal"? Please elaborate :)
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 12:17PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 12:50, card cheat wrote:
There are NO penalties at all in your country for cheating casinos?!?!

Where do you live?

CC
[/quote]Sorry, English is not my first language. Thank you. I live in Ukraine.
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 12:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 13:02, matu wrote:
His profile says he lives in Ukraine. Ilya, from what you are saying it sounds that corruption is such a way of life in your country right now that cheating is like "legal"? Please elaborate :)
[/quote]I cann't say, that cheating is absolutely legal. But if they see a cheat, they will just tell him - "go away!". Nobody will call police. Because police doesn't understand, what is card cheating. So it can proof nothing. Ukrainian police is not FBI:)
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 19, 2007 12:45PM)
I'm sure that there are laws against cheating there. You take that much money, and the interest to turn it into more money, and you have a good reason to prosecute cheaters to the fullest extent of the law.

CC
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 12:46PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 13:34, Ilya wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 13:02, matu wrote:
His profile says he lives in Ukraine. Ilya, from what you are saying it sounds that corruption is such a way of life in your country right now that cheating is like "legal"? Please elaborate :)
[/quote]I cann't say, that cheating is absolutely legal. But if they see a cheat, they will just tell him - "go away!". Nobody will call police. Because police doesn't understand, what is card cheating. So it can proof nothing. Ukrainian police is not FBI:)
[/quote]Yea but they would probably break both of your hands as well.

I am quite sure cheating is illegal and would be considerated by police and court as theft.
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 01:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 13:45, card cheat wrote:
I'm sure that there are laws against cheating there. You take that much money, and the interest to turn it into more money, and you have a good reason to prosecute cheaters to the fullest extent of the law.

CC
[/quote] Card cheaters never were prosecuted in Ukraine.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 01:08PM)
Maybe the handle it the way they used to handle it in Vegas.
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 01:12PM)
[/quote]Yea but they would probably break both of your hands as well.

[quote/]Proubably they would, especially if you will be alone:)
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 01:16PM)
Isn't the entire Ukraine basically being run by organized crime?
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 01:22PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:04, Ilya wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 13:45, card cheat wrote:
I'm sure that there are laws against cheating there. You take that much money, and the interest to turn it into more money, and you have a good reason to prosecute cheaters to the fullest extent of the law.

CC
[/quote] Card cheaters never were prosecuted in Ukraine.
[/quote]Because most of the games are private, and all the problems are solved privately.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 01:23PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:16, Vandy Grift wrote:
Isn't the entire Ukraine basically being run by organized crime?
[/quote]Yea, but we call it parliament.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 01:24PM)
Lol! Are you in Ukraine Pavlo?
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 01:25PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:16, Vandy Grift wrote:
Isn't the entire Ukraine basically being run by organized crime?
[/quote]It was - 10 or 15 years ago.
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 01:29PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:23, Pavloter wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:16, Vandy Grift wrote:
Isn't the entire Ukraine basically being run by organized crime?
[/quote]Yea, but we call it parliament.
[/quote]Yea, it's true:)
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 01:31PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:25, Ilya wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:16, Vandy Grift wrote:
Isn't the entire Ukraine basically being run by organized crime?
[/quote]It was - 10 or 15 years ago.
[/quote]

I think they have been active politically and in all sorts of business ventures, including running banks, even recently. In 2000 it was estimated that there were at least 12 gangs that were very active in all aspects of life in Ukraine.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 01:32PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:24, Vandy Grift wrote:
Lol! Are you in Ukraine Pavlo?
[/quote]No, but I'm originaly from there.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 01:33PM)
Really? That's cool. I would like to visit Ukraine.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 01:36PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 14:33, Vandy Grift wrote:
Really? That's cool. I would like to visit Ukraine.
[/quote]It is cool there, if you have money to spend.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 01:41PM)
Yes from what I hear prices have really gone through the roof over there. I have a friend from Novosibirsk and she says things are very expensive there as well.
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 01:55PM)
True, Moscow was voted, by Forbes, most expensive city in the world, second year running now. I met some teams of 3cm and 3sg, they told me that in Moscow they would play 1000 Euros per game. I am not sure how genuine that information is, but it is possible.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 02:05PM)
It wouldn't shock me if it were true.
Message: Posted by: h2o (Dec 19, 2007 02:12PM)
In some countries in Europe, especially in Germany and in Holland, the casinos are operated by the government. This means they don't have a financial lobby to press for voting repressive laws and put every cheater in jail. I ve hardly heard any news about european casino cheats being put in jail. There was the case of this asian high tech team who robbed millions from the english casinos, but as far as I know they kept the millions and faced "only" 9 months of detention. In Las Vegas they would have been sentenced to life...
By the way, I ve also heard that in the US you can be send to jail for driving too fast...
All this to say is that it is much more risky to cheat or to do anything against the law in the US than in Europe. And even in private games, if you're caught cheating, you will hardly be killed by a gun, as we hopefully have laws against weapons.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 02:45PM)
I just saw that story about the guys who were cheating 3 card poker in England. I was shocked at how light they went on them. 9 months, suspended sentence. 150 hours of community service and a two year ban from casinos. I saw no mention of restitution on the money the got.

That's NOTHING!
Message: Posted by: Ron Conley (Dec 19, 2007 02:55PM)
If you get caught cheating in my home poker game, you must sit out a whole round. On top of that you hand is dead for the pot you cheated in. I know this is a little harsh but you have to draw the line somewhere.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 02:59PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 15:55, Ron Conley wrote:
If you get caught cheating in my home poker game, you must sit out a whole round. On top of that you hand is dead for the pot you cheated in. I know this is a little harsh but you have to draw the line somewhere.
[/quote]

Does the cheat have to sit in the corner facing the wall?
Message: Posted by: Pavloter (Dec 19, 2007 03:01PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 15:59, Vandy Grift wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 15:55, Ron Conley wrote:
If you get caught cheating in my home poker game, you must sit out a whole round. On top of that you hand is dead for the pot you cheated in. I know this is a little harsh but you have to draw the line somewhere.
[/quote]

Does the cheat have to sit in the corner facing the wall?
[/quote]Lol

I think there must be different sentenses for interfering game with devices and altering cards or equipment and average sleight of hand cheating.

In UK we got case law and statutory. If there no simular case in UK, they might borrow close related case from elsewhere, including USA, and some sentenses might be quite simular. But in rest of the Europe we got constitutions and there few books which cover all the laws and statues. So when there such special situation, as card cheating, they might use different close ralated statue, such as petty theft.
Message: Posted by: card cheat (Dec 19, 2007 03:03PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 15:55, Ron Conley wrote:
If you get caught cheating in my home poker game, you must sit out a whole round. On top of that you hand is dead for the pot you cheated in. I know this is a little harsh but you have to draw the line somewhere.
[/quote]

LMAO.

CC
Message: Posted by: Ron Conley (Dec 19, 2007 03:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 15:59, VandyGrift wrote:
[quote]
Does the cheat have to sit in the corner facing the wall?
[/quote]
No they don't, I couldn't be that cruel. I love it when we get a Cold Decker in the game. Nothing sweeter than wining a monster pot with second best.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 03:07PM)
[quote]
In UK we got case law and statutory. If there no simular case in UK, they might borrow close related case from elsewhere, including USA, and some sentenses might be quite simular. But in rest of the Europe we got constitutions and there few books which cover all the laws and statues. So when there such special situation, as card cheating, they might use different close ralated statue, such as petty theft.
[/quote]

The guys using the sleeve cam to cheat 3 card poker were charged with "cheating at play", under the 1846 Gaming Act. This was in London.
Message: Posted by: Ilya (Dec 19, 2007 03:40PM)
[quote]
No they don't, I couldn't be that cruel. I love it when we get a Cold Decker in the game. Nothing sweeter than wining a monster pot with second best.
[/quote]I guess, you are an enemy of all card cheaters.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 19, 2007 03:45PM)
Ron, what's the buy-in for your game? And is there a dress code, ie. long frilly sleeves, shiny watches? Can I bring my own ice?
Message: Posted by: Ron Conley (Dec 19, 2007 04:13PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 16:45, Rawdawg wrote:
Ron, what's the buy-in for your game? And is there a dress code, ie. long frilly sleeves, shiny watches? Can I bring my own ice?
[/quote]

Buy in is a 100.00 with unlimited re-buys. We don't have a set dress code but expect people to dress tastefully. Long frilly sleeves are fine if they match either your dress or shoes.

Security pats players down at the door, if they don't have some type of cheating device I'll rent them one. Their are 4 Gussies Keplingers, these go quick so come early. I also have one bean shooter and a Riser Jacobs ladder. Lights and various chip stack shiners are available, but only a sucker would use one as these guys are not going to show you the cards you dealt them.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Dec 19, 2007 04:23PM)
Ron, sounds like your game offers peace of mind. No one has to sit there and think "I wonder if I'm being cheated". That's a real load off.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 19, 2007 04:59PM)
And Gypsies, can they play or is best to keep them away?
Message: Posted by: Ron Conley (Dec 19, 2007 05:31PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-19 17:59, tommy wrote:
And Gypsies, can they play or is best to keep them away?
[/quote]

Gypsies are more than welcome. I eat out often so its no problem to replace a little silverware and the salt and pepper.
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Dec 19, 2007 10:53PM)
Put me down for a seat and a Riser. I'll be stopping by Taco Bell before I show, so I won't need the Bean Shooter. Thanks a bunch in advance.


xoxo,
raw!