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Topic: Strong Routine using Only Self Working Effects
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 2, 2008 08:51PM)
Hi Guys

Here's a question for you. If you had to put together 2 strong routines consisting of 3-4 effects that could only be self working, what would you include.

As an example, Overkill by Paul Harris followed by Gemini Twins by Karl Fulves followed by Poker Face by Al Baker.

Looking forward to your thoughts
Message: Posted by: fvdbeek (Mar 3, 2008 01:55AM)
You have heard about Card College Light ? (a book )


Frans
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 3, 2008 08:07AM)
Hi Frans

Yes I have heard of Card College Light. However that is not my question. I am asking if you the individual had to put together a routine of your own, what would that be. That's why I gave an example of effects and by who. I am not asking where I can read a routine in a book. (Even though that is a great book and has lots of great routines in it)

The purpose of this question was to get a bit of a conversation going and to share ideas and thoughts.
Message: Posted by: trickytrav (Mar 3, 2008 09:25AM)
Lazy mans card trick HARRY LORRAINE
Destiny Phil Goldstein
Whispering Queen
X Marks the Spot Nick Trost

Do As I Do
Untouched
Gemini Twins
Message: Posted by: AlexanderYan (Mar 4, 2008 01:51AM)
Eugene Burger's handling of the Triple Prediction plot is self working and pretty incredible.

-AY
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 4, 2008 12:25PM)
Good choice Tricky trav on the Harry Lorraine Effect, He allways puts together some great stuff.

Also I hear that there is a good DVD on making miricles out of self workers by Matthew J Dowden called 1 deck, 14 tricks, 24 hours. Has anybody seen it ?
Message: Posted by: Hushai (Mar 4, 2008 02:55PM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-04 13:25, truesoldier wrote:
I hear that there is a good DVD on making miricles out of self workers by Matthew J Dowden called 1 deck, 14 tricks, 24 hours. Has anybody seen it ?
[/quote]

There is a review of it at http://www.online-visions.com/reviews/0709dowden.html.
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 4, 2008 03:23PM)
Thanks Hushai
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 5, 2008 08:23AM)
Hey Guys

I notice not many posts on this thread. Does this mean that most of you don't like to do a whole routine consisting of only self workers, or does it mean that you have such good routines that you dare not share them LOL.
Message: Posted by: trickytrav (Mar 5, 2008 09:26AM)
If someone gives you a scruffy old deck of cards its always good to know a few self workers.
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Mar 5, 2008 07:34PM)
I don't know that it's such a hot idea. If you have too many routines in a set that have the same dynamic, things can get stale -- it doesn't matter if it's 4 ace tricks, pick-a-card tricks, magician-in-trouble tricks, or self-workers. A lot of the great self-worker effects are often procedure-heavy... too many tricks like that in a row and you're asking for trouble.
Message: Posted by: panimen (Mar 5, 2008 11:17PM)
These are two routines of self-workers that are based on similar stack arrangements:

Paul Wilson's "Absolute Zero" (a few little fixes to return stack order)
Pit Hartling's "Chaos"
Juan Tamariz's "Neither Blind Nor Stupid"
Any version of Paul Curry's "Out Of This World"

Or:

Al Koran's "Lazy Man's Card Trick"
Benjamin Earl's "Ramjollock" (a few little fixes to return stack order)
Sal Piacente's version of the "Marlo Opener"
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 6, 2008 03:31PM)
Hi Erlandish

I totally agree with you regarding the fact that a lot of self working effects are very procedure heavy and to much of this is not good. However as I am sure that you will aagree there are also a lot of good self workers out there that are good while not overly procedure heavy. I guess that the whole point of this post, to see what you could put together in order to make a 3-4 effect routine that would stand up in a pro environment.

I have recently become quite fasinated with self working and semi automatic card effects. I really enjoy the clever thinking behind the strong ones. Also I have found through reading that there a lots of effects that are really good that no one else (or at least not many) people are doing. I myself understand that by adding a few sleights to some of these effects can make them even better, I do this quite a lot and it really goes a long way towards making the effects even stronger.
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Mar 6, 2008 09:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-06 16:31, truesoldier wrote:
However as I am sure that you will aagree there are also a lot of good self workers out there that are good while not overly procedure heavy.
[/quote]

Actually, I'm pretty ignorant, so I'm having a hard time remembering the short & sweet self-workers... Going through Card College Lite, Fulves's More Self-Workers, and my Royal Road, I'm having trouble finding anything in there that's short&sweet and measures up to the likes of Shufflebored, Gemini Twins, PIS Triumph, Untouched, etc. I can think of loads of great tricks to complement the above, but I'm having trouble thinking of any that are both self-working and at the same level of quality...

But, like I said, I'm pretty ignorant. Hopefully someone can cure me?
Message: Posted by: cristo (Mar 7, 2008 08:22AM)
Bannon's Power of Poker is pretty light on procedure, and it's a self worker. Not an instantaneous "wham" kind of effect but not too laborious either. Guess it depends on where you put the breakpoint for "heavy."

I think Degrees of Freedom would qualify as "procedure heavy" though...
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 7, 2008 01:50PM)
For some other good selfworking effects try Deuces Wild on page 15 of Self Working Card Tricks, also on page 92 try Jumping Jocker. (They are very simple, but with the right presntation and patter can really be entertaining.

Also try Flighty Aces by Lu-Brent on page 89 of Scane on Card Tricks.

You can sometimes make other effects self working, an example would be Stigmata, all you need is a Cut Deeper Force, (for the rest you will need to watch the DVD)

I guess it just means reading through lots of books and trying out effects untill you find ones that suit your style.
Message: Posted by: Hushai (Mar 7, 2008 04:56PM)
I'm sorry -- that link I gave above to Visions Online doesn't seem to work for me, now that I try it. I don't know why. I know that the review I was referring to was there a few days ago when I looked at it, in the trick review section of Visions Online. You can look for it there if you're interested. Sorry about the glitch.
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 7, 2008 06:11PM)
No problem Hushai, I had the same problem.

Thank you for coming back and letting me know, it's much appreciated
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Mar 7, 2008 09:16PM)
BTW, the link to the review of Matthew J. Dowden's "1 Deck 14 Tricks 24 Hours Volumes 1 and 2" DVDs isn't working because of the period at the end. Here's the functioning link:

http://www.online-visions.com/reviews/0709dowden.html
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 8, 2008 10:21AM)
Thanks Scott
Message: Posted by: Medifro (Mar 13, 2008 01:25PM)
For this month, I plan to work on Effortless Card Magic by Peter Duffie more ( more like re-reading )

What I want to do is to make all my performances this incoming weeks from this book alone ( hence, easier, automatic card tricks only ). I think it will be a wonderful experience, loads of fun.

that's one advantage of me being an ameature. I can try the tricks I want, when I want :D

~ Feras
Message: Posted by: trickytrav (Mar 13, 2008 01:58PM)
FERAS you wont go far wrong with that book from the first trick on.
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 14, 2008 08:28AM)
I also have to agree and say buying Effortless Card Magic is a great investment. I recently bought the PDF version and because I feel that it is such a great book I have printed out a hard copy. (A lot of paper and ink was used in the process, but it is most definatly worth it)
Message: Posted by: Medifro (Mar 15, 2008 01:12AM)
I printed it out to and had it bound. The book is really good so far.

~ Feras
Message: Posted by: waltsal (Mar 21, 2008 11:48AM)
Start with Lazy Mans Card trick
Follow up with Gemini Twins, Triple Prediction and 4,5,6 Packet trick

The spectator will remember that you never touched the cards and most of the magic occurred in the spectator's hands.
Message: Posted by: truesoldier (Mar 21, 2008 12:17PM)
Nice routine Waltsal, I like your thinking
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Mar 22, 2008 11:30AM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-04 02:51, AlexanderYan wrote:
Eugene Burger's handling of the Triple Prediction plot is self working and pretty incredible.

-AY
[/quote]

... shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........
Message: Posted by: mimo67 (Mar 22, 2008 05:16PM)
Quote :

On 2008-03-04 02:51, AlexanderYan wrote:
Eugene Burger's handling of the Triple Prediction plot is self working and pretty incredible.


Can I ask you please where this presentation can be found ? Thanks a lot !
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Mar 22, 2008 11:05PM)
It can be found in his booklet entitled "Intimate Secrets".
Message: Posted by: mimo67 (Mar 23, 2008 03:21AM)
Thanks Slydini62 for the answer and waltsal for your ideas.

You can also begin with Chaos (Pit Harling) or Neither Blind Nor Silly (Juan Tamariz), then follow with Absolute Zero (Paul Wilson), then with almost nothing to do E. Burger's version of OOTW followed by H. Lorayne's OOTUniverse... Blacks and Red are again separated after all of those, so another effect can follow with this ...
Message: Posted by: balic2003 (Mar 23, 2008 03:58PM)
@waltsal:
depends on the circumstances, but I donīt think lazy mans card trick is a good trick to begin
Message: Posted by: balic2003 (Mar 23, 2008 04:00PM)
@mimo67:
I begin with chaos and donīt tip this to everybody, itīs to good;-)
Message: Posted by: Thomas Henry (Mar 23, 2008 07:33PM)
Here's a tip that someone may find useful. The setup for "Play It Again (Triumph)" can be used for "The Lazy Man's Card Trick."

If the force should fail in the former (and you'll know it at once, since you're h***ing a b***k with your pinkie), you can always forge ahead with the latter and reach a successful conclusion. The audience will never know you switched gears.

Thomas Henry
Message: Posted by: panimen (Mar 24, 2008 12:03AM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-06 00:17, panimen wrote:
These are two routines of self-workers that are based on similar stack arrangements:

Paul Wilson's "Absolute Zero" (a few little fixes to return stack order)
Pit Hartling's "Chaos"
Juan Tamariz's "Neither Blind Nor Stupid"
Any version of Paul Curry's "Out Of This World"

Or:

Al Koran's "Lazy Man's Card Trick"
Benjamin Earl's "Ramjollock" (a few little fixes to return stack order)
Sal Piacente's version of the "Marlo Opener"
[/quote]

Just to clarify my earlier post, the first set of effects secretly maintain and utilize a red/black division while the second set uses any 13-card stack (I prefer a memorized group of 13 cards).

In addition, for those who are familiar with the following effects, the first phase of Stewart James' "Miraskill" allows for a simple red/black separation that can lead to Larry Barnowsky's "Alignment Of Colors At Montauk Point".
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Mar 24, 2008 09:23PM)
Good tip, Thomas. Thanks for that.
Message: Posted by: Paul (Apr 9, 2008 10:15AM)
Routine 1
Divisory Capacity - Peter Duffie
Business Card Prophesy -Bill Simon
Conference Pairs -Al Smith

Routine 2
Three Stewart James tricks :)

Paul.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Apr 13, 2008 09:35AM)
Here are four effects where virtually no sleights are required.
Each are different enough to make an interesting routine.
How strong they are depends on you're presentation.


1) "You Do As I Do" using only one deck, 'Scarne on Card Tricks' pg.28.
Both Mage and specs find selected cards and they closely match.

2) "Two Card Reverse" Lorayne, 'Close Up Card Magic'.
Two cards placed in the deck reverse. The cards from the above effect could be used.

3) "Scarne's Follow The Leader", 'Scarne on Card Tricks' pg.143.
Two piles of six red & six black cards. One red and one black act as leaders.
The leader cards are switched back and forth a few times and the piles seem to follow ending with the colors alternating in each pile.

4) "Quadruple Coincidence", Frank Garcia, 'Stars of Magic' video.
Four of a kind are produced with the help of the spectator. Impromptu and no stack required.

----------

To be honest, the only effect that I've done is "Quadruple Coincidence".
I found your request for "routines consisting of 3-4 effects that could only be self working" challenging tried to see what non-sleight, non-stack effects I could come up with.
Message: Posted by: Mick Ayres (May 18, 2008 10:28PM)
Gentlemen,

For the record, in 2002 and later in 2004, I did this very thing for the Walt Disney Company. I developed and performed TWO full mentalism acts using playing cards. Every effect was self-working. Both of these shows were presented on a regular schedule before thousands of guests from around the world at the Disney resort on Hilton Head Island.

I later published this material in two separate manuscripts called HOODWINKINGS (Book One in the Act-series) and PREDICT-ABILITIES (Book Two in the Act-series). A highlight of these books is that I took pains to include the full scripts for each effect and even included what I call transition-scripts...the performer/audience dialogue that fills the space in between each routine. Generally speaking, mentalists tend to be more familiar with these works than cardworkers. I think it has something to do with the LACK of sleight-of-hand (sigh).

I remain a huge fan of Semi-Automatic card magic simply because focusing on presentation and entertainment keeps the contracts renewed and the food on my family's table.

Best,
Mick Ayres
Message: Posted by: Rennie (May 19, 2008 11:26AM)
What about "Miraskill" by Stewart James?
Rennie
Message: Posted by: JoeHohman (May 19, 2008 11:51AM)
Be wary of Miraskill with certain groups, particularly people who play a lot of cards where card counting is required. I performed this for a woman who is an avid bridge player, and while she didn't bust me or even challenge me, I could tell that she sensed something wasn't quite right with the pairing of the reds and blacks.... she didn't know what I did, but she knew I did SOMETHING.

(Out of about 50 people in the audience, SHE was the spectator I chose.... )
Message: Posted by: Rennie (May 19, 2008 09:34PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-19 12:51, JoeHohman wrote:
Be wary of Miraskill with certain groups, particularly people who play a lot of cards where card counting is required. I performed this for a woman who is an avid bridge player, and while she didn't bust me or even challenge me, I could tell that she sensed something wasn't quite right with the pairing of the reds and blacks.... she didn't know what I did, but she knew I did SOMETHING.

(Out of about 50 people in the audience, SHE was the spectator I chose.... )
[/quote]
What were the odds of that huh ? Great effect though.
Rennie
Message: Posted by: CardWiz (Aug 6, 2008 10:40PM)
Mick's routines sound very good...and for only 20$ a piece.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Aug 17, 2011 02:28AM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-23 00:05, Slydini62 wrote:
It can be found in his booklet entitled "Intimate Secrets".
[/quote]
Actually it's called [i]Intimate Power[/i]; his take on the Triple Prediciton is found on p.60.
Message: Posted by: Mick Ayres (Sep 10, 2011 08:16PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-06 23:40, CardWiz wrote:
Mick's routines sound very good...and for only 20$ a piece.
[/quote]

This is extremely belated, CardWiz, but thank you for your kind words. BTW, over the past few years the cost of these books has increased to $35 each. However, performers often inform me the books are still underpriced.

I am still performing for Disney and since 2008 have added two more books to the Act-Series: NOETIC LICENSE (Book Three) and S'LIE (Book Four). The reviews for these new editions have been nice and generous as well.

Thank you again for your kind comments about my work.

Warmest regards,
Mick Ayres
Message: Posted by: terrillific (Dec 5, 2011 02:20PM)
1 DECK DO AS I DO by John Carey
Message: Posted by: NYCJoePitt (Dec 24, 2011 11:06PM)
I also recommend the Card College Light series to help put together a routine. There are several excellent suggestions found in those books.

I've been trying to build my confidence back up and put together the following routine for a large family Xmas gathering. I pulled it off with no hitches and was very happy with the result.

1) Poker Player's Picnic from RR to CM.
2) Gemini Twins (I created a script based on Dopplegangers.)
3) Untouched by Daryl
4) Do As I Do (I have a script based on Simon Says)
Message: Posted by: jmvives (Jan 2, 2012 10:37AM)
I like the Jaz's routine so much. It's perfect structured and manages the emotions very well. Vote for that :)

greetings,
Message: Posted by: Rick Holcombe (Jan 10, 2012 07:19PM)
I like to follow "Do As I Do" with an effect from The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings called "Optical Prediction". After that I like to do "LIII-kliehood" by Richard Vollmer from Semi-Automatic 2. The whole routine revolves around coincidence.
Message: Posted by: A Show By Joe (Jan 25, 2012 06:55PM)
"Twisted Sisters" by John Bannon

"Torn Too" by Daniel Garcia

"The Grail" by Mike Rose
Message: Posted by: sparks (Jan 28, 2012 07:12AM)
Even though there is a lot to it, Bannon's Degrees of Freedom always seems to amaze (even myself). I've had a lot of fun and success with it. And Woody Aragon's How to Find Your Other Half (a quick self working effect he describes in the introduction to his Book in English sounds great... I just started reading the book... haven't tried it yet. The latter might be a problem with a borrowed deck though sine you have to tear four cards in half :)
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Jan 28, 2012 11:44PM)
For those looking for inspiration, I did an exercise (twice in fact) in putting together self-working routines from classic books most every magician has. It is documented in a thread entitled "Self-working challenge" and I've cut and pasted my first attempt below. The second is also in that thread but I'll let all of you search for it. Here it is:


Okay, so it's been over a year and my conscience has nagged me long enough that I finally put in the work to post here as I said I would in May of 2007. Possibly even more sad than this is the fact that only one person (thanks trickytrav) has posted since!

So I'm looking at the original conditions of the challenge (which it looks like only one or two people actually met) and in addition to Jud's original criteria (and the good idea Airship subsequently added), I propose that we add another. How about this? The tricks in each routine have to be completely impromptu. That means no set-ups (unless it is one you have the skill to do on the fly, making the trick impromptu for you). I want to be able to take a borrowed, spectator-shuffled deck and go to work.

With Jud's original criteria (only inexpensive books purchased from Barnes & Noble, Border's, etc. and 2-3 routines of 3 tricks each), Airship's "chapter and verse" idea, and my self-imposed impromptu guidelines, here is what I have come up with.

Routine 1
Just stringing some tricks together would make no sense... a through-line or theme for the routine is necessary to justify performing several tricks in a row. From a presentational standpoint, I asked myself a) "What story am I trying to tell/What am I trying to communicate?" and b) is the premise interesting/entertaining?

The theme for this routine revolves around the idea of the performer having an acute sense of touch which is responsible for the magic that is happening. Perhaps the performer could relate a story about how the sense came about (i.e. the performer was struck by lightning or he/she burned their fingers when they were younger and they developed hypersensitive scar tissue, etc.). I'll leave the why's of your newfound acute sensory abilities up to you! Here are the tricks:

1. "Heavyweight"- New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 7.
2. "Cardini's Color Discernment"- Scarne on Card Tricks, p. 163
3. "Transposed Thoughts"- New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 98

The idea here is that you begin demonstrating your abilities by accurately sensing the weights of packets of cards, which seems quite difficult to do reliably (though perhaps still possible given years of practice). Follow this by upping the ante and using your sense of touch to identify colors (the idea being that black cards and red cards differ in weight, however miniscule and virtually undetectable these differences may be). Finally, you get two spectators personally involved by demonstrating your amazing abilities with two selected cards.

Routine 2
Almost everyone has heard of Extra-Sensory Perception and each has his or her own beliefs about the subject. With this routine, your through-line is that you'll be demonstrating the four types of ESP, these being a)Precognition- foreseeing the future, b)Telepathy- reading a person's thoughts, c)Clairvoyance- seeing that which can't be seen, and d)Psychokinesis- moving/manipulating physical objects with the mind. These effects obviously have a mental flavor to them so how you play mentalism is up to you. I personally prefer the tongue-in-cheek approach.

1. Precognition: "Open Prediction"- More Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 9
2. Telepathy: "The Card Revealed"- Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 46
3. Clairvoyance: "Sleight of Mind"- Self-Working Mental Magic, p. 90
4. Pyschokinesis: "The Piano Card Trick"- New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 58

You can perform these in whatever order you think is the most logical and/or based on strength of the tricks, moving from weakest to strongest to create some type of dramatic build for your audience. I have listed them in no particular order. "Open Prediction" is obviously a prediction. "The Card Revealed" is a great trick where you read the spectator's mind twice... a playing card and a number they've never spoken, written down, etc. (and it doesn't involve the "Clock Trick" methodology either). "Sleight of Mind" involves at least five spectators so if you're only performing for one, then you can eliminate this one and easily use "The Card Revealed" to demonstrate both Telepathy and Clairvoyance at the same time. Finally, "The Piano Card Trick" is a classic and really is a simple transposition of one card, but you can play it as if you are causing the card to dematerialize and rematerialize in a different place (the "even" pile) with the help of everyone's full concentration, hence it is your demonstration of Psychokinesis.

As an alternative, you could also use "Mental Rescue" (More Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 91) or "Braude's Mental Card Trick" (Scarne on Card Tricks, p. 89) in place of "The Card Revealed" for your Telepathy demonstration and "Gemini Twins" (More Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 1) could be used in place of "Open Prediction." "Gemini Twins" could also be used, if you sell it properly, in the Clairvoyance demonstration instead of "Sleight of Mind." Finally, "Attraction Aces" (New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 87) or "Player Piano" (New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 60) could also be used as a demonstration of mind-over-matter (Psychokinesis) instead of "The Piano Card Trick."

Routine 3
This carries the same premise as Routine 2, but adds the interesting angle of the spectator doing all of the demonstrations! You could start by discussing how some people have ESP and don't realize it. Most everybody has had an experience where they knew what someone would say before they said it. Or perhaps they've intuitively had some sense of when to avoid something only to later find out something terrible happened at that very moment at that very place that their gut told them to stay away from. Using this presentational angle, here are the tricks:

1. Precognition: "Paradox"- New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 29
2. Telepathy/Clairvoyance: "Gemini Twins"
3. Pyschokinesis: "Topsy Turvy"- Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 109

"Paradox" is an effect where the spectator "predicts" his own card but it actually turns out to be the card he selected. It's kind of a self-working version of Hamman's "Your Signed Card." "Gemini Twins" makes another appearance here with a different spin. If you say you're going to "remove a few random cards" (don't refer to them as predictions as is traditionally done) and attempt to send a thought to the spectator to stop at the appropriate spot, then this becomes a case of the spectator reading your mind. Or perhaps, the spectator is unaware that he can "see" the cards but the fact that he stopped on the mates of your two removed cards proves his abilities as a Clairvoyant. You justify the use of two cards because the first one "might have been blind luck." Finally, "Topsy Turvy" is an effect where the spectator mysteriously causes his card to turn face up in half of the deck simply by "concentrating on it," then he follows this up by causing your card to turn face up in the other half. Again, it is the mental concentration angle that makes this a demonstration of the spectator performing Psychokinesis.

Alternatively, you could substitute "Cards Can Think" (New Self-Working Card Tricks, p. 123) in place of "Gemini Twins" for your Telepathy demonstration in which the spectator reads the performer's mind. In "Cards Can Think" the performer could say he's thinking of a card and will remove it and place it face down in full view, after which the spectator successfully reads the performer's mind by ending up with cards that match the suit and value of the performer's mentally chosen card.

There you have it... a bit of my thinking on the Self-Working Challenge. I'd love to hear others' takes on this. Obviously these tricks are not exhaustive and I honestly spent very little time looking through Scarne on Card Tricks, any of the Bob Longe books or Magic with Cards by Garcia and Schindler, all of which were inexpensively purchased from Barnes & Noble. Enjoy.
Message: Posted by: Rampage (Aug 6, 2012 07:46AM)
I recently purchased The Ultimate Self Working Card Tricks by Big Blind Media and will be adding atleast 2 of the self working effects into my routine. They are so powerful and very easy. The first one I will be adding is Contact Colors & the sencond one I will be adding is Your Aces are marked. I'm sure I will be adding one more but I'm just not sure which one at this point. So in total I will be adding 3 Self working card tricks to my routine along with 3 tricks with sleight of hand and then to end one effect with a gimmick. Great Thread.. Thanks everybody for sharing their thoughts and their posts.