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Topic: Periodic Table Force?
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Mar 22, 2008 12:21PM)
A weird idea just occurred to me. Would it be possible to do a force of a chemical element from the [url=http://www.webelements.com/]periodic table of the elements[/url] via a "move your finger"-type procedure?

I was thinking you could start with something like, "Put your finger on any odd-numbered element", "Put your finger on any chemical symbol with two letters", or "Put your finger on any of the noble gases".

The challenge with this is that you can't really "remove" any of the elements using a printed table, although you could cross them out if you used a clear dry-erase surface.

Any ideas on how you would do this?
Message: Posted by: Morgan Stevens (Mar 26, 2008 12:59PM)

I'm not sure how you could force via a "move your finger" type force but you could utilize the periodic table in conjunction with the 37 and 68 force. Having the selected elements predicted on a piece of paper and then prattling on about the "mystical" properties of said elements...

Maybe you could use a swami to "predict" a randomly chosen element from the table too?
Message: Posted by: Steven Steele (Mar 26, 2008 02:49PM)

I'm sure of all the members, you understand the 'workings' of such a force, however I would offer you this advice. Rather than an instruction of "any odd numbered element", I'd provide an 'easier to see' periodic table that had the elements squares colored in different colors. Then I'd start with put your finger on any 'red' element. And then narrow by moving in various directions to other colors until the final one is arrived at; say 4 or 5 moves. Max Maven did a similar routine using flags of various countries. There are other scenarios out there, but that is one of the ones I'm most familiar with. No flags are removed, if memory serves. I've seen another with about 12 selections and none are removed. I think with some imagination you can make it work. Let me know if you need some more help.

Message: Posted by: Nir Dahan (Mar 27, 2008 04:42AM)
Why not use psychological forces, it is a very well known fact among magicians that

- the most common noble gas chosen is Neon
- a metal with atomic number less than 30 is usually (65%) Titanium followed by (22%) Lithium - strangely aluminum comes only third...
- NaCl is by far the most popular salt with KCL hanging far behind
- with acids it is a bit more tricky and one might need to resort to equivoque since Hydrofluoric acid, sulfuric acid and chloric acid have all almost the same probability of being chosen by a layperson (31%, 33% and 36% respectively)
- luckily for bases, the situation is exactly the opposite with Ammonia taking the lead with almost 97% probability of being named.

hope this helps...

Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Mar 28, 2008 04:28PM)
I wonder if it might be possible to formulate a 'progressive anagram' for the elements? Probably not with the full standard periodic table of 117/118 elements. The table may first have to be reduced in scale as a set of data. Perhaps just including the first thirty elements or so or just the gases or metals. Best to stick with fruit I guess (!) A P.A might however be utilised in conjuction with equivoque/force? Just another angle of thought.

Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Mar 28, 2008 10:52PM)
Interesting ideas . . . especially the progressive anagram.

Which elements do most people forget and which do they remember? [url=http://www.sporcle.com/games/elements_results.php]Here's the answer to that question[/url].

How do we do a progressive anagram for them? [url=http://www.underground-collective.com/effects/detail.php?product_id=5]I can answer that, too[/url]!
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Mar 29, 2008 10:09AM)
Scott, Ah yes Panagram. That would certainly provide guidance. My feeling is that we would be extremely unlucky if a lay person (ie non scientist) was to think of an element not contained within the first column (ie first 40) of the list you provided. I might use patter to completely eliminate any such minimal risk by saying "Choice any element that you see in the air around you or in the earth, perhaps in a building or other object. Any element you like." They are not then going to plum for some obscure synthetic element way down the periodic table!

Therefore one might start from this basis of really giving the spectator a "completely free choice". Only once they have thought of an element do you then bring out a chart in detailing these 40 elements. I guess at this stage in order to reduce the field further the use of colour could then be brought in. One might divide the 40 elements into two colours. You then use magician's choice or a cleverly worded adaptation of it that suits your style of presentation.

Only then might one move on to utilise the progressive anagram. Depending upon the resulting complexity of the 'route'in some circumstances one might do well to formulate an ambiguous 'equivoque' like question to get down to the exact element in the spectator's thoughts. Say with fruit I generally I get the spectator to visualise and experience the sensation of actually eating the fruit. Then I feed my questions as confident statements which have an 'out' inherent within them should probability go against me. However I suspect that formulating such questions might be more difficult with a relatively 'cold' 'intangible' subject such as the elements.

Just my subjective thoughts. Hope this helps. Andy.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Apr 4, 2008 06:59PM)
Nir Dahan,

I take exception to your acid percentages, nitric acid is picked at lease 14.38% of the time while I have only a 1.2% success rate with Hydrofluoric acid, where do you perform?

Message: Posted by: Nir Dahan (Apr 6, 2008 06:53AM)

when you asked them to choose an "acid" did you show some pills in your hands?
this might explain the problem.
I usually perform for senior citizen (75+) with a background in experimental chemistry, do you think THAT could make the difference?

Message: Posted by: Pierre Emmanuel (Aug 1, 2008 07:08AM)
On 2008-03-22 13:21, Scott Cram wrote:
A weird idea just occurred to me. Would it be possible to do a force of a chemical element from the [url=http://www.webelements.com/]periodic table of the elements[/url] via a "move your finger"-type procedure?[/quote]

There is an index, some colours, some groups .. so you can have multiple out, don't you think ?

I am also thinking of an adaptation of the Puzzle effect, with the elements .. you see what I mean ?
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Jul 9, 2019 05:34PM)
Just read these old posts.
In my 2013 hardcover book Counting On Deception, I have an original effect called Periodic Table Prediction.
[url=http://www.barnowskymagic.com/Countingondeception.html]More info here[/url]