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Topic: RNT2 - Jake
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Mar 25, 2008 07:47PM)
Any updates on Jake's health? He is not registered any longer on ebay ...
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Mar 25, 2008 08:05PM)
I got an e-mail from him on Saturday to say that a shipment was en route to me.

Message: Posted by: lint (Mar 25, 2008 08:56PM)
Marcy emails me on Monday to take care of my order.

Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Mar 25, 2008 10:12PM)
RNT2 is up for sale and as it states on the website it is due to health concerns.
Hoping for the best.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 25, 2008 11:35PM)
I spoke to Jake a couple of days ago. He is basically up to his posterior in alligators and is busy draining the swamp.

But he is making steady progress.
Message: Posted by: rannie (Mar 26, 2008 04:41AM)
Just got a PM from Jake telling me about the progress of my dream set. I can't imagine how he does it given the number of orders he has. Either of 3 things:
1) he has elves helping him
2) an enormous amount of love and passion for his craft
3) God is really healing Jake every day.

All the best Jake and see you soon.

Message: Posted by: lint (Mar 26, 2008 12:13PM)
Care to let us in on what your dream set will be Rannie? Mine is the two tone copper/nickle set of traditionals he made that Palmer now has in the museum. The cost of the workmanship on them just put them totally out of my reach though :(

Oh well, what fun would life be if we had everything we wanted?

Message: Posted by: rannie (Mar 26, 2008 01:23PM)
Tod my dream set is a John Mendoza Combo set in copper with an extra straight cup PLUS a solid cup for a kicker. This would be a one of a kind set according to Jake. As for the finish....I have the option of having them natural or clear coated. I gave Jake the freedom as the artist. I am willing to hear your views fellas. Natural for future tarnish or clear coat?

Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Mar 26, 2008 01:32PM)
If you're not using them all about the same amount the cups could end up with different looking finishes. I would never want clear-coat but perhaps it might be a good idea so you don't end up with 3 really tarnished cups, a kind of tarnished cup, etc.

You want the solid cup kicker to be a solid cup, not a color change :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 27, 2008 12:51PM)
I just got a shipment of cups from Jake this morning.

The little Jester cups are very nice. These are the first of them that I have gotten.

They are different enough from the Kort cups that you can tell them apart at a glance, but they are perfect for Milt's routine.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 27, 2008 01:07PM)
So they always look the same I would Nickle Plate them.
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Mar 27, 2008 01:19PM)
Nickle Plating is great and all you have to do is take a soft cloth and wipe them off when they get dirty.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 27, 2008 01:36PM)
Chrome may be better. It is more durable than nickel and there are fewer people who are allergic to it.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Mar 27, 2008 03:10PM)
I always get confused about this. What's the difference between the different types of plating: nickel; chrome, and 'nickel chrome'?

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 27, 2008 04:44PM)
Nickel usually has nickel plate over a layer of copper. Chrome plate usually has chrome over base metal or over copper. Nickel Chrome has both metals. I'm not sure what the order is.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Mar 27, 2008 05:11PM)
Thanks Bill. I'm always curious by the nickel chrome plating: what's the advantage using both metals (especially if one is plated over the other)?
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 27, 2008 07:31PM)
To me chrome is too bright and nickle is older looking yet durable and easy to clean.
Message: Posted by: lint (Mar 27, 2008 07:53PM)
I love the look of dulled Nickel.

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 28, 2008 03:02AM)
So much of this has to do with the surface treatment of the metals that it is difficult to make a definitive statement. The older nickel plating was more durable than most of the nickel plating we see these days, especially the plating that comes out of California. The environmental reguations have caused real problems for platers.

I wonder how difficult it is have things rhodium plated.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Mar 28, 2008 03:42AM)
Bill, do you have examples in the museum of cups that are nickel plated rather than chromed?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 28, 2008 04:20AM)
Yes, go into the database, and look in the section for finishes. You will see nickeled and nickel plated. Should be a total of 34 sets.

Nickel has a slightly yellowish tint to it. Chrome is bluish.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Mar 28, 2008 10:29AM)
The old P&L traditional cups : were they chrome or nickel plated over copper?

Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Mar 28, 2008 11:03AM)
Thanks, Bill.

OK, I've got it now. Basically, all decorative chroming is a two-step process: nickel plating is done first for smoothness and to prevent corrosion; the chrome plating on top provides a shine and prevents tarnishing. Nickel plating is just what it says - just the nickel plate, but this will tarnish/dull slightly.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 28, 2008 01:14PM)
I remember a serious collector bought some props from a friend in the UK and when he got them home had them CHROME PLATED... AND THIS LITERALLY RUINED THE NICE OLDER LOOK of Nickel plating.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 28, 2008 01:19PM)
On 2008-03-28 11:29, fortasse wrote:
The old P&L traditional cups : were they chrome or nickel plated over copper?


Both, actually. I have some that are chrome, others that are nickel. In fact, a set I got from Marshall Brodein has two that are nickel and one that is chrome.

Their steel cups were generally chrome plated and most did not have a hallmark. I have never seen a hallmarked steel P&L set. Could be that they didn't want to ruin their punch.

Some P&L Cups were plated over brass instead of copper. The only way to tell is from the inside of the cup. You can usually see a bare space where the electrical contact was against the side wall of the cup. P&L painted the inside of their cups with grey or silver paint to mask this.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Mar 28, 2008 04:27PM)
Thanks, Bill.

Message: Posted by: lint (Mar 29, 2008 04:29PM)
Got a nice shipment of cups today from Jake. The Copper Jesters are adorable :)

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 29, 2008 09:53PM)
I have an immense amount of photography to do tomorrow. I have re-vamped my whole setup, because of the difficulty of shooting certain kinds of cups. I'm going to try working with continuous lighting.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Mar 30, 2008 04:52AM)
...does that mean you've got a load of chrome and silver to photograph, Bill? :)
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 30, 2008 11:51AM)
"Continuous lighting?" Does that mean photofloods vs. electronic flash?
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Mar 30, 2008 12:30PM)
On 2008-03-30 12:51, Pete Biro wrote:
"Continuous lighting?" Does that mean photofloods vs. electronic flash?

I took that to mean, he didn't roll cigarettes as well as he used to.
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Mar 30, 2008 03:18PM)
I received a nice set of Sisti cups from Jake the other day.
I tried to call him to say thanks a few times but there never seems to be anyone there.
I hope everyone at RNT II is well.
Message: Posted by: SeanD13 (Mar 30, 2008 04:46PM)
I just talked to him yesterday. He is doing fine but not up to full speed but better then he has been in the past months. The chemo takes a lot out of him. That plus the meds you have one mad clown that is not running much at all.

I know with my RSD I take a lot of pain killers and they can make me forget things really fast. It is like changing the channel things are just gone. I can only imagine what he is going though.

He was in good sprites when we talked for a while about some new things he has in the works. I can not go in to that but I will say this. Start saving your money you are going to need it for the jewels he is going to be coming out with real soon.

Well I wanted everyone to know how he is doing and to please keep him in yourr prayers. He is really a someone that gives his heart and soul to his craft, to the art, and to the people he knows.

Keep up the fight my friend.

Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 5, 2008 04:25PM)
A shipment from Jake arrived here yesterday. Thanks and take care of yourself.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Apr 5, 2008 04:50PM)
Got a shipment from him too. Santa and his elves are as busy as ever!
Thanks, Jake

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 5, 2008 07:05PM)
On 2008-03-30 12:51, Pete Biro wrote:
"Continuous lighting?" Does that mean photofloods vs. electronic flash?

Yes. I found some very interesting floods that may be the ticket for the problems I was having with silver cups. However, I also worked out a neat flash setup. So we will see what happens.
Message: Posted by: rannie (Apr 5, 2008 10:49PM)
Jake just finished a one of a kind set for me as well as 2 sets of coin boxes. Jake is truly amazing! Now I just have to decide whether to have them in mirror finish or smooth satin. Any suggestions gentlemen.

God Bless you and your family Jake!

Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Apr 6, 2008 06:36AM)
For coins, I'd get satin, for better contrast.
Message: Posted by: rannie (Apr 6, 2008 07:05AM)
Oh josh....gentlemen.... I was talking about the cups. Sorry bout the confusion.


thanks josh just the same!
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Apr 6, 2008 03:27PM)

Some people say that a patina forms quicker with satin finished cups.

Myself, I'd go for the mirror finish.

Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Apr 6, 2008 08:21PM)
Patina DOES form much quicker with satin finish cups.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 6, 2008 11:47PM)
With the amount of time Rannie will spend with these cups the finish matters not. These babies will look "Vintage" and well loved inside of 30 days! LOL
Message: Posted by: rannie (Apr 6, 2008 11:54PM)
You got that right hermano! A regular cup that is brand new....gets the patina in 3 days in my hands and it evens out in a week. I Pmed Jake and I let him decide on the finish. I want the artist to have full control.

A toast to Jake, for health and more cups fellas! I raise my cup all the way from Manila!

Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 7, 2008 12:10AM)
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Apr 7, 2008 01:28AM)
I raise my cups too, all 3 of 'em
Message: Posted by: Mike McErlain (Apr 7, 2008 01:40PM)
Just received another shipment from Jake and Marcy. Many thanks!
Stunning cups as expected.
All the best for improved health.
Message: Posted by: snushy (Apr 9, 2008 04:21PM)
I received a set of Ramsay cups yesterday from Jake. They are absolutely perfect for the Ramsay routine. Well done Pete and Jake!
Larry Zaslow
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Apr 9, 2008 05:30PM)
Man, I ordereed a cup in Febrary and not only have I not gotten my Takagi cup I have not gotten replies to e-mails or Calls.
They cashed the check 4 days after I sent it.
Jake, Where is my cup man????
Message: Posted by: rudess (Apr 10, 2008 09:12AM)
I ordered some cups and coin boxes 8 monthes ago some even over one year.
And I hav'nt got them.
I have wrote many e-mails and PMs.
Jake,I don't mind waiting,but at least tell me the status of my orders.

Lin from Taiwan
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Apr 10, 2008 11:43AM)
I wished Jake would let us know about the name of the SBL line????

Message: Posted by: leaycraft (Apr 10, 2008 01:53PM)
I too fell like many of you reading your posts and frustration. I can only say that I did finally receive all the orders I placed from October thru December. I am satisfied with ;the workmanship that came - not perfect not fantastic but good solid value.

I have made a decision that not all will agree with but since I can only vote with my wallet and choices, I won't be ordering anything further from RNT unless and until communication and promises are kept. Until then I will be purchasing form other vendors or even used.

This is my choice and you must make yours.

I wish Jake good health and prosperity for both him and his family - He did honor his commitment and produce what I paid for so as far as his keeping his word, YES he has integrity and I hope that all of you will get your products in the near future.

Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Apr 10, 2008 02:02PM)
If I had money to spare, I would place an order now whether I thought I would ever receive it or not.

I'm not a magician, but a magician wannabe, yet even I have developed a sense of giving something to the community. I would love to have nice cups. But I would love even more to hear that Jake has conquered his illness. And if I had placed an order for $10,000 solid gold cups, I would still be more concerned about Jake than my cups.

Message: Posted by: professorwhut (Apr 10, 2008 02:33PM)
I too, have been on the waiting end of a RNTII order in frustration.
I always get over it as soon as my stuff comes in, then I am happy!

Thanks Jake.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 10, 2008 02:40PM)
We are all hoping for the best for Jake... and nothing less.
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Apr 10, 2008 04:56PM)
When the original Rings & Things stopped producing
there was a sigh heard throughout the magic world.
And even today premium prices are paid if-and-when you’re able to get
one of the R&T quality treasures used or at auction.

When Rings & Things II appeared on the scene,
products not seen for years were tooled and manufactured once more,
and new products reflecting a dedication to quality and usability
were brought to the marketplace.

Whether the old or the new R&T,
there is a commitment to fine magic to enhance fine performances,
and when they are long gone, and R&T is once again only a memory,
there will be another sigh heard throughout the magic world,
wondering where the good-old-days and those masterful props went too.

I understand that Jake is ill, he is very ill,
and only the gods themselves know how, if, or when he’s recover.
Even with these enormous pressures of heath, funding, strength, and time,
R&T is innovating and producing props not found elsewhere
all produced with a high degree of integrity.

Everyone is free to buy from them or not,
and certainly when things are backordered for a long while,
or when communications are painfully slow,
there is bound to be frustration.

Remember the long, seemingly endless, delays with Richard Himber
or getting your illusion built by Owen-Supreme???

But in the real-world, this is a matter of life-and-death,
and not just “business as usual” ….
may I point out that no one ever died from not getting his chop-cup on schedule?

Perhaps Rings & Things will find a buyer
with the business, technical, artistic, and magical skills to continue their traditions,
but folks with all those qualities are far-and-few between.
Perhaps they will again vanish like the lost content of Atlantis
and become the stuff of legend…. and expensive magic auctions.

If there is anything you’d “had your heart set on”
or wanted from “Santa” from R&T II, now is the time to realize that dream,
get your props (which will only increase in value) and upgrade your equipment now,
or maybe never…..

Your purchase will also support R&T saying open as long as possible,
producing as much as they can,
and providing some sort of living for a magical-family facing great hardships.

Do what you must,
buy where you must,
but don’t later cry over spilt milk, and say….
“gee, I wish I’d be more patient” back in the day ….or….
”why don’t they make stuff the way they did when I was young?”

My thoughts on waking to the realities of R&T II--
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 10, 2008 07:55PM)
That was wonderful Walt and although my sentiments as well, I doubt I could have been so eloquent!

Message: Posted by: lint (Apr 10, 2008 08:02PM)

Message: Posted by: professorwhut (Apr 10, 2008 09:57PM)
Well said Walt.

Thanks for sharing that.

Message: Posted by: Mr. Muggle (Apr 11, 2008 12:28AM)
Most anyone who has posted or lurked in this forum has known for many months (if not longer) that Jake has had serious health problems...still he keeps working away to complete orders placed by his customers - even though the doctor has told him to slow down and stop working on more than one occassion.

Like any craftsman, Jake put's a little of himself into each project he works on. Jake is, and has been, known to give the magic community the highest level of customer service and craftsmanship I have seen in my almost 20 years of magic. If you ordered from Jake, rest assured you'll have your product and you'll be more than happy with his work. I've never heard of Jake not completing a customers order.

In summary, please show Jake some respect during this unfortunate time - he's working hard to finish what he started under extraordinary circumstances! Instead of venting here for the world to see why not pick up the phone and drop RNT2 a call? After all, you may find there is a reason for the delay and/or your order is next in line to ship out!

Jake, if your reading this I wish you the best - thanks for the great products and get well soon!
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 11, 2008 01:09AM)
Also consider that the more time Jake has to spend time answering phone calls, E mails and PM's the less time he has to spend working!
Message: Posted by: SeanD13 (Apr 11, 2008 09:47AM)
Well I think it is time I point out some facts that you all may not be aware of. It was not that long ago that I had a long talk with the Mad Clown himself. I shared part of that conversation here in this topic, but there are a few things I thing you may still need to know.

1. Jake was getting well over 200+ spam emails a day in his in-box. So, they installed a new spam filter to stop that problem. With that it was over working and stopping more then just spam. He was missing a lot of emails and had no idea he was not getting them. I do not know if this has been fixed, but that may explain why your emails have gone unanswered. Try send it with a different subject line.

2. Jake Jr. is big enough to walk into the shop now and get into things, and likes to play with the answer machine. They have found that he has a habit of deleting the massages. Then getting them to play. This something they are tring to fix. That might explane why your call calls are not returned. Plus an time Jake is on the phone he is not able to work.

3. I did talk about how Jake is sick, but only a handful of you have a clue of how sick. Lets not go into to much detail but lets just say he is fighting for his life. Nuff said.

4. Last we talked he had a lot of orders to fill. some of his cups are selling faster then he can make them. So, he is doing his best to keep up. Which means that the days he should be resting he is working and burning the candle at both ends.

With all that said, you need to give the guy some space. How would you be holding up if it was you?? Could you stay home and work all day. When your life is getting shorter and shorter? (I didn't think so.) What is more important you cups or a man's life.

So, to all of you that have been attacking the good name of RNT II. Better think again better think again. I take it really personal when you attack a friend of mine. I will not put up with it at all.

Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Apr 11, 2008 11:44AM)
I would like to add my sincerest good wishes to Jake and his family.

They have never let me down and I cannot think that they will let anyone else down.
Jake is an honourable man.
RNTII is an honest company.

Jake, Marcy and RNTII have my fullest trust and my respect.

Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Apr 11, 2008 02:05PM)
I think we need to be fair to those who posted their comments earlier: I don't think they did so with any malice. Although several of us are aware of the upheaval in Jake's life right now, it's not common knowledge. I'm sure they too wish Jake well, like the rest of us. If they read these posts they'll know the reason for the delay and I'm sure will understand the situation a little better.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Apr 11, 2008 03:37PM)
Well said, Richard, and I agree with you. Jim
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 06:52AM)
To those of you who have been patient an supportive, thank you very much. I'm not one to air how sick I am and only my close friends know just how bad off I really am. Fact of the matter is that right not RNT II is keeping my mind off of the seriousness of my disease.

Emails have been a huge problem, any concerns about emails should be directed to richard@rnt2.com he is the RNT II webmaster. He graciously supplies us with the server space and bandwith. To cut back on spam he did migrate the mail server to a private company, unfortunately there have been problems, emails are all be treated as spam, at least 98% of them. I can't even get an email through to Richard using my own RNT II account.

Rudess, what you fail to tell these people is that I have emailed you in the past and that you returned a set of Chrome Combo cups you special ordered from me because you did not like using 3/4" balls. Between spending 180.00 on the chroming and anothe 128.00 in shipping to Taiwan, I have been waiting for a set of Mendozas Nickel Chrome to arrive back from the plater, after losing out on the chroming as I still have the combo set and the $ to ship and reship, I'm waiting until the cups are completed reship one last time.

Mobius, I did send an email stating payment had been recieved and that the cup had swelled and I had to wait for my vendor to get 4" x 4" cocobola in. This email might not have made it as it was around the time Richard had the mail server switched over. The stock is due in this coming week and I'll return the Roswood cup and wand.

John , you said the following...
I can only say that I did finally receive all the orders I placed from October thru December. I am satisfied with ;the workmanship that came - not perfect not fantastic but good solid value.

If there were any issues with any of the products you did not convey them to anyone here. I can't make things right if I don't know there is a problem. Ask others, if someone feels something is not perfect I fix it. End of story. This has always been the way I operate and generally I don't even ask for the defective product back unless it's an engineering issue I need to see or address. As to buying from other Vendors, we no longer supply vendors with props unless they contract us for their own line.

Besides for the new Rice Bowls, Rice Orange and Checkers, the hottest ticket right now is The Mendoza Combo cups. But John quite frankly really ****ed me off with the following post.....

I forgot my very first order and found that I do have one more set left, so if anyone is having difficulty getting a set of the new RNT2 John Mendoza Copper Combo Cups, I have one brand new available for immediate shipment. You can read about them and see them at:

There are 2 reasons for delays in orders, I can't spin them fast enough and John is demanding his orders before other customers and it's burning my fanny. Grant you I made these for John, but John is pushing himself to the front of the line of everyone else, so this is putting me behind even more. I'm about ready to kill the production all together. John knows just how sick I am and continues to put orders in requesting them immediately. Quite frankly, his statement was like undermining any sales through RNT II and directing them to him. **** tactic IMHO.

In other news, we released a set of cups called the SBL Princess cups, immediately, Brett Sherwood was all over us about the ring spacing and threatend legal action, but then again Brett said our Foxy II.V were too much like his cups. :lol: Can we say time for a visit to "Pearlvision"? After pulling them and sending some sets out for evaluation, all concluded that these could not be confused with Sherwood cups, so the runs will start back up. But this was time I had to spend talking to others and our attorney. When challenged I don't fold, I RESEARCH. If he did take the company to court, by the time we got there, they will probally have to add an exumation order to get me to court, yes I'm that ill.

Next, David Ben, this guy is a real pain my ass and the sole reason the PF trademark has not made it back through the system yet. David seems to think he holds some power over the PF trademark and can order cease and decist notices from Canada. Since he and people like Riser can't seem to keep their opinions out of the public expect to see maybe one or two more runs.

Then there are the Chemo treatments, ok, 1 day a week, that's only 1 day. Anyone that has had Chemo threapy knows that the entire world is ripped from underneath you days after the treatment, sometimes not even enough strength to lift so much as an 8oz glass of water.

Top off all the background ******** with the fact that struggling to pay for medications and treatments, and I've got my hands and mind full. I'm not looking for any sympathy, just letting everyone know what is going on in my life that is affecting the company.

All in all, I am one person and 99% of the community knows it. I can only do so much, I don't clip anyone, I go out of my way and the extra mile. I appologize for the wait, but remeber you all made us this popular and it has gotten to the point where I can't keep up, this means A. don't order B. Expect a Wait. I know those are ****ty options, but that's the best I can offer along with superior workmanship and products. I could always just choose to say "I don't want to do this anymore" but that would be a lie and probally do me in.

I've always treated people as people and with respect, that's more than I can say for some that refer to Café members as Wannabes and has their Special List. I've never treated anyone in an Elite or arrogant fashion or refer to them as Wannabes, you are humans, friends and customers.

Please, should anyone decide to order, keep them small, 1 or 2 pieces at a time, I can expedite quicker that way without sacrificing quality, I'm very sorry but this is the best I have to offer.

So again my appologies, but this is the best I have to offer for the company right now.
Message: Posted by: rudess (Apr 12, 2008 09:08AM)
Thanks for the update Jake.

Here are my back orders
1.wand for the copper black beauty
2.RNT II Walking Liberty coin box set
3.slot box 1/2 dollar
4.Foxy Two Combo Cups Brass
5.balls for the stubby don chop cup
6.a regular size combo cups

You know that I always wait patiently.

God Bless you and your family Jake.

Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 12, 2008 11:35AM)
Jake: Thanks for letting those that moan and groan where they stand. Keep doing what you are doing and do get well. Stay tooned...
Message: Posted by: rmendez (Apr 12, 2008 01:23PM)
This David Ben guy keeps it up and we'll make PF hallmarked Beanie Babies.
Message: Posted by: SeanD13 (Apr 12, 2008 01:50PM)
Now that would be a great way to steam him up.

Wishing you all the best Jake.

Message: Posted by: silverking (Apr 12, 2008 03:40PM)
I think that folks are getting confused as to a persons ability to be compassionate towards a fellow man who's ill (Jake) ......and folks asking about their purchases.

As much as some are trying to make the two topics one and the same, and vilify those who are doing the asking about late deliveries in the process.......they're really two very different things.

NOBODY here would EVER state that they wished anything but for Jake to regain his full health and live a long and happy life with his family. To insinuate that folks asking "where are my cups" are somehow wishing Jake anything but a speedy recovery is idiotic.

The reality is that Jake is sick,
Jake needs to get better,
Jake is continuing to sell product,
Folks are continuing to buy product,
Folks who send their money will (due to human nature) want to know what's happening with their product,
People are generally patient, but at about the four to six month mark most folks begin to get antsy,
And lastly that folks asking about where their stuff is aren't somehow by osmosis also wishing for anything but the best for Jake and his family.

As for the David Ben and Brett Sherwood stuff, it's a private exchange between a guy who's still running a business (Jake) with all the trappings that running a business bring with it and those who may wish to engage him in legal discussions about things he's doing or making.
It's really got nothing to do with Jake being sick, cups being delivered a bit slowly, or anything else that this thread or the general topic of RNTII, Jakes health, or the general and specific well wishes of the magical community towards Jake and his family.

It's none of our business, and I (nor anybody else really) has any real need to know the details.

It's really time to drop this entire topic and leave Jake and RNTII alone.

If anything you've read causes you to presume that waiting an INDETERMINATE and UNDEFINED amount of time for your delivery won't work for you, DON'T order!!!

It's really easy to figure out that if you order, and if you're NOT willing to wait........you're absolutely causing your OWN grief..........it's got nothing to do with Jake or RNTII.

Jake has made his personal and business situation crystal clear a few times on the Café, so it's REALLY not a mystery as to what's going on. Everybody now knows exactly what's going on.

Now what everybody needs to do is ACCEPT it.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 04:22PM)
Quite the contrary, each time a cease order is issued it takes up 3 days of time, 3 days not in the shop but my head on an attorneys desk just bouncing it up and down, so yes, it is the publics business to know the full extent of wasted time.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 12, 2008 04:23PM)
I took Chemo treatments when I was 1/2 Jakes age and each and every session would cripple me for 72 hours at a time! He's tougher that me!
Keep the faith my friend!

Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Apr 12, 2008 04:46PM)
Jake: great to see you in feisty form. Keep the spirits up!
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Apr 12, 2008 04:53PM)
Thanks you Jake for the information and I hope you get well quickly.
I never got the e-mail.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 04:55PM)
On 2008-04-12 17:46, Richard Evans wrote:
Jake: great to see you in feisty form. Keep the spirits up!

Break a man's spirit and there's not reason for him to exist :)
Message: Posted by: silverking (Apr 12, 2008 04:56PM)
On 2008-04-12 17:22, Mad Jake wrote:
Quite the contrary, each time a cease order is issued it takes up 3 days of time, 3 days not in the shop but my head on an attorneys desk just bouncing it up and down, so yes, it is the publics business to know the full extent of wasted time.
Not to be contrary Jake, (but I will be) if folks can't wait 3, 6, or 9 extra days because part of running a business means dealing with this type of thing, then they' have issues that speak to the fact that they shouldn't be ordering and buying hand made, custom built items from a boutique magic manufacturer like RNTII.

Really, other than a public airing of a grievance, it's got nothing to do with anybody but you and the parties involved.

David Ben is the executor of the Dai Vernon estate, and involved on many different levels with magic and magicians. He's not an idiot, and doesn't do things just to bother people.
I'm sure his side of the story is just as interesting, and just as confident that they're right as yours is.

The point is, it's your business, not mine. I (and others as well I presume) understand that running a business means more than just "making stuff". Dealing with lawyers is part of the mix.

Disagree with me if you must, but GET WELL SOON :) (which was my point!)
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 05:36PM)
If we want to take this trip down memory lane again, I'll gladly post all the pdf paperwork on the RNT II site.

On 2008-04-12 17:23, MickeyPainless wrote:
I took Chemo treatments when I was 1/2 Jakes age and each and every session would cripple me for 72 hours at a time! He's tougher that me!
Keep the faith my friend!

It's my own fault, all the times I didn't "have" time to put on a respirator. The Tripoli has a silca in it that causes cancer. Given the choices, I should have taken the mask, it was a deal I could have lived with a bit better.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Apr 12, 2008 05:46PM)
I actually think we're talking about two different things Jake.

My point was to do with your health vs. how quickly things can be made.....with a brief aside to my point being that there was no need to explain any legal quandry's in order to show where you spend your time.

I was also talking about your business being YOUR business, not mine.

I think you're talking about something different.............anyway, I DO wish you good health and long life, ...........Peace and out :)
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Apr 12, 2008 06:21PM)
Hey Jake - I see you're teasing us with new finishes on the cups :) What does black chrome look like?
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 06:28PM)
My concerns are for the customers and then myself. This is a period in time that can permantly damage us, all due to my health. In the event my brother or one of my children want to keep this machine alive, they have my shadow of damage to overcome, not a burden I easily live with right now.

I've brought in help before, it doesn't work. No one cares. They want a paycheck and that's it. Even my own brother won't put an 18 hour work day in for a company or his own. I'm the complete opposite, I will do what it takes to get the job done, but it has to be done right.

I can appologize till the cows come home for running behind, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm only one person and I won't let shoddy crap go out the door.

RNT II/ SBL Magic, was not suppose to get this big, a few sets here, a few props there. None of us involved ever figured it would become so big so quick. Everyone made us as big as we are, not only the team here, but the customers and people who have supported us both in purchases and praise. I mean, I guess I never figured that into the equation, how do you live up to that being 1 person in a shop?

I've never looked at this company as mine, as a matter of fact it's not, I'm a puppet of this company, it's not Jake, it's RNT II/SBL, nothing more. This is something I do and this is what bothers me so much being downed with poor health. People not only relate the failure to deliver in a wink, which they should expect, but the failure of a person and a company.

Well what is something happens to Jake? That is covered, I guarantee everyone that. If the company has not sold, there is someone to fill my spot and take over until Marcella sees fit to disengage the company. No one's orders will be left or stuck in Limbo and there will NEVER, I repeat NEVER be a Busby type incident.

Again I appreciate eveyones prayers, thoughts, purchases and support. I just ask you to remember I am one person doing the job of many and without sacrificing the quality of product you are purchasing, need extended time to fill orders, especially with newer products that have become popular.

Sincerely and with thanks,

On 2008-04-12 19:21, Richard Evans wrote:
Hey Jake - I see you're teasing us with new finishes on the cups :) What does black chrome look like?
there are several versions or appliques of black chrome, the process we are using or actually having applied is awe inspiring to say the least. The cups actually look like glass encased liquid, this will be known as our Darkness Falls series.

But what will really knock your balls of the cup saddle will be the silver inlay on the Darkness Falls cups. A silver artwork will be applied after the foundation of the black chroming has started and then clear coated what you have is a 3 Dimensional work of art in your hand, the silver look as if it's suspended in liquid.

The Darkness Falls series will also be the foundation and cornerstone for a project we are working on for a Dr. we know overseas :)

As I said in the past, all client projects will continue pending sale of the company, should the company sell in the intrim, I will stay aboard to see the projects through, but I'm confident my brother and I will be the ones to carry them out.

Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 06:40PM)
This just in, just one of my reasons to fight this disease even that much harder.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Apr 12, 2008 07:03PM)
That kind of puts things in perspective. Jake - it's incredible how you keep things going. I can't imagine how tough this is for you.
Message: Posted by: lint (Apr 12, 2008 07:08PM)
Go get it Jake! Quite the adorable daughter!

Message: Posted by: James Kernen (Apr 12, 2008 07:25PM)
On 2008-04-12 19:40, Mad Jake wrote:
This just in, just one of my reasons to fight this disease even that much harder.

It is all about priorities.... There is no mistake on this one, and that you already know... :)

Judy will be sad to see that she doesn't look like her dad's avatar though... She keeps telling everyone about her magic friend Jake, the clown with the black bird...

Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 12, 2008 07:56PM)
***It's my own fault, all the times I didn't "have" time to put on a respirator.***

I hear ya man! After getting that blast of CA fumes and our last conversation I've looked like Darth Vader every time I flip the light switch on in the shop!
Beautiful pic of the wee one!

Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 12, 2008 07:59PM)
The bird is dead, I tried duct tape a few times, but then it just looked like one big wad of tape.

After the current chemo, I don't look all that different without the makeup, dark circles under the eyes, skin is pale, you get the idea. Guess the hair is next, good thing still have the puffy wig, imagine if I had called it an Afro wig, boy would that open some paths. :lol:

Live, Love, Laugh,
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Apr 12, 2008 08:04PM)
As an occasional customer I'm granting you a couple of weeks off.....
Take care of yourself...
Message: Posted by: James Kernen (Apr 12, 2008 08:23PM)
On 2008-04-12 20:59, Mad Jake wrote:
The bird is dead, [/quote]

It's not dead....it's resting.......
Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (Apr 12, 2008 09:47PM)
Wish you all the best, Jake and for your family
I haven't got a hand on your work... Wish for it

Keep Smiling and stay magical

Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 13, 2008 04:02PM)
If you ever get the chance to own a set of cups by Jake, do so!
Message: Posted by: SeanD13 (Apr 13, 2008 05:01PM)
It is no secret that I am a fan of Jake's. Everything from his skills as a cups maker to his kind heart. I have always wish and prayed for nothing but well wishings to him and his family.

I know I am not alone in my thoughts when I say "Move at what ever speed you must move to keep going. If you ever get tired let me know I will be more then glad to give you a push."

Your Friend,
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 13, 2008 07:49PM)
I haven't been on the Café for the past few days, because I've been in Austin for their auction.

Jake, hang in there, buddy. Do what you have to do.

Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (Apr 13, 2008 09:05PM)
On 2008-04-13 17:02, MickeyPainless wrote:
If you ever get the chance to own a set of cups by Jake, do so!

Thanks for the encouragement... I'm still saving for it.... A lot of great things I heard about Jake's work. Since I'm on searching as well to replace my bazaar de magia cup.

Thanks once again
Message: Posted by: NurseRob (May 29, 2008 12:09AM)
I'd like to thank Jake and RNT2 for the pleasure of doing business with you. From all that I have learned on this forum about this truly great man, I had to jump in and invest in his work. I don't care if it comes fast or slow, This Gentleman's heart is in his work, and that is VALUE to me. Being a novice with only a basic C&B Mark Wilson routine, I know that I will grow into a lifelong appreciation of handling the props this man has made for me.

Since my piggy bank is now empty, I am happy to have given it up for RNT2

FYI I will soon be the proud owner of: The Mendoza Chop Cup and the Sisti Working Professional set in Nickle Chrome. The training wheels are off now brother, Uday's are going in the recycle bin.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (May 29, 2008 01:03AM)
Congrats on your new additions man! No need to chuck your Uday's as they are your first and deserve a place on a shelf maybe as a reminder of where ya started! I even grab my first cups for fun now and then and when I go back to my gems they feel all the better!
BTW, the Mark Wilson routine is a wonderful starter and a good foundation IMO!

Message: Posted by: NurseRob (Jun 2, 2008 09:38PM)
Ok cup update...they came today and are spectacular. The Sisti's are so beautiful, I cannot stop staring at them, they handle like a dream compared to the uday's ( I will take your advice though Mickey, and keep em for a momento)
Now the John Mendoza Chop cup is what really suprised me though. You cannot appreciate this cup by the photo alone, it is a meaty, warm, and solid cup that you just want to hold forever. The weight of it is so nice and balanced, I had to kick myself for not ordering the whole combo set. BUT instead of causing harm to myself or others, I promptly wrote Jake to get the rest of the JM combo set. He must have been online, cause he responded in minutes, and now the combo set will be complete. I haven't been this in love with anything made of metal since I got my first Smith and Wesson. Thanks Jake and Co. I am one happy dude!
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Jun 2, 2008 09:47PM)
The Sisti Working Professional cups in aluminum from RNT II are really quite nice too. Beautifully designed without frills. Generally, I don't much care for aluminum cups because of the flimsy, lightweight feel but these are an exception.

Message: Posted by: James Kernen (Jun 2, 2008 09:50PM)
I got some Chromed Gazzo 2's today.... Pretty happy here in AZ...

Thanks, Jake..

Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Jun 2, 2008 10:44PM)
Da Mad Clown do make a fine vessel and his lady weaves a wicked orb!
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Jun 3, 2008 03:18PM)
A little before Jake began facing his series of health crises last year,
which necessitated Rings N Things II to scale back on production,
we were talking about releasing “The Ultimate Floating Ball Set”
which would be patterned on the classic RNT zombie-ball designs.

Of course with Jake’s treatments and the slowdown of the company,
our plans had to be put on the back-burner and it’s now a year and some later.

The fact is that there is no “complete” Zombie Floating Ball set available anywhere…
And indeed, since Abbotts ceased their manufacture, it’s difficult to obtain a
professional high-quality, and correctly-made ball anywhere at all!

I’m still optimistic that someday this “Tiffany” of Floating Ball sets can exist,
and it seems as Jake is able to post more and communicate a bit more here on the Magic Café some of his energy and drive could be returning! Do you --Rings N Things II fans and supporters-- feel this would be a product you’d maybe be interested in purchasing down the line?

The set Jake and I envisioned would have included:
--A silver or gold mirror-finish ball in the traditional size (perhaps a larger one too).
--A custom designed and specially fabricated heavy silk foulard (slightly gaffed).
--A “traditional” appearing, but highly revolutionary, re-engineered gimmick.
--Extensive written and illustrated techniques and presentations in a booklet.
--Perhaps a demonstration DVD, maybe including suggested music tracks.
--Perhaps a levitation (and storage) chest to protect the ball.

If Jake thinks he and the company can still attack this project in some future months,
that would be my first and highly preferred choice, as the RNT balls were just fantastic in the past, and Jakes skill with this type of work unparalleled today. If they just can’t manage to work it in, or indeed if the company is sold down the line, I could look for others who might be interested in picking-up-the-ball (so to speak).

In the meantime I’ve been working on the design elements, of everything but the ball and the possible chest, and working on the comprehensive instructions and routines, with the hope this could work out someday.

Just wanted to post this where we’ve been talking about Jake and RNT II,
and see what other’s thoughts or interests might be.

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 3, 2008 07:40PM)
I'm all for that.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Jun 3, 2008 11:41PM)
I'd sure want one Walt!
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Jun 4, 2008 02:32PM)
Count me in as well.

I have an original RnT zombie ball and a Rice's "Imperial Dragon" silk zombie foulard that I purchased in the '70s. Apart from the dragon print on the foulard being terribly out of fashion, these have been hands down the best props for performing zombie that I've found thus far (and I've purchased several different cloths and balls over the years). I have no doubt that Jake and RnT2 would surpass even the originals.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 4, 2008 04:05PM)
If you use the Al Schneider Zombie setup, the Rings and Things Zombie is perfect.
Message: Posted by: L Trunk (Aug 14, 2008 09:16AM)
Just saw Walt's post. A set like that would be fantastic!

Message: Posted by: mysto59 (Aug 14, 2008 05:38PM)
I would be VERY interested!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 27, 2016 06:50PM)
Some people knew I had health issues and what they were. Since working for RNTII I developed heavy metal disease. I had stage 2 cancer, I've beenin remission now for 3 years. If the cancer and heavy metal disease
I was starting to feel better. In October before last. Something odd was happening to me. None of my Dr's knew what was wrong with me. Then one doctor,Dr. Patel found out what it was. The first responder gave me a shot to bring my temperature was 106.5 for 46 minutes. I slipped into a coma and was immediately had me in ICU on ice to help bring it down. I woke up after 14 days in a coma and it was explained to me I had a very rare disease called Neuroleptic
Malignant Syndrome. Less than 0.01 in the USA has come down with it. There was brain damage, it can be controlled with medication. I'm on so much medication I can't even tell you what the amount of of medicine I have
to take. I have to use one hand to type as there was severe brain damage from the fever.

You can read in Wiki pages what the disease is I'm always cold, My inside organs run cold, below normal. We'll you can read about it on the web

God Spared Me, Jesus has been teaching me about life and being saved. But one thing is indeed that if Riser has a gripe or name calling and casting asspurtions Jake Jr. will handle him just fine.

My daughter, Epiphany is moving from South Carolina back here as well as my 2 brothers, both from New Orleans area to help Jake Jr. There will be new cups coming to the market, just not as fast.

To those who wrote me and called, thank you, it meant a lot to me There certainly are good magicians here helping each other.

Mad Jake Sr.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake Jr. (Aug 9, 2016 10:41PM)
[quote]On Apr 11, 2008, MickeyPainless wrote:
Also consider that the more time Jake has to spend time answering phone calls, E mails and PM's the less time he has to spend working! [/quote]

Mickey and I were very good long desanste fun. We spent hours on the phone together Sometimes day after day. Mickey, RIP I miss you.

Mad Jae and Mad Jake Jr.