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Topic: Ultragaff Deck from Ellusionist
Message: Posted by: ritty360 (Apr 11, 2008 11:33AM)
Do you have to buy DVDs?
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Apr 11, 2008 11:54AM)
It doesn't have a separate price listed on the preview page, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't just buy the deck separately.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 11, 2008 12:07PM)
What exactly are we talking about, here?
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Apr 11, 2008 12:32PM)
The deck looks good but they are charging 30 dollars each and its a 3 dics set. so 90 bucks. if its anything like the last gaff card dvd, that's a lot of money for a lot of obvious ideas, and standard moves
Message: Posted by: Vic Nadata (Apr 11, 2008 01:08PM)
Wow it's 30 for each disc? I thought it was 30 for the set. Man that's crazy.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Apr 11, 2008 01:15PM)
Here is the copy :

Each DVD will be $29.95 USD

it says each dvd....
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Apr 11, 2008 01:16PM)
I'm just going to buy the deck and come up with stuff myself. Some of the cards actually look really useful.
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Apr 11, 2008 02:31PM)
I'm going to estimate the deck alone will cost around $30-35 dollars. For the whole package, you would be paying 20 bucks for each dvd and 30 dollars for the deck.
Message: Posted by: palmtreemagic! (Apr 11, 2008 03:40PM)
$30-$35 for cardboard? The box can't even be used for a trick!
It costs them less than a dollar to print each deck
Yea, there are heavy designing costs and it has the ellusionist, wayne houchin, and daniel garcia name on it, but it's still over priced. $20-$25 would be a reasonable price set, since we're going to have to pay $7 for shipping on top
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Apr 11, 2008 03:51PM)
I didn't say whether it was reasonable or not. I just think it's going to be the price considering what they've charged previously for their other gaff decks. At the end of the day, I don't think they'll care about what you and I think is a reasonable price. Where else are you going to get the exclusive item from?
Message: Posted by: thefliss (Apr 11, 2008 06:17PM)
I missed the part where it said what was on the 3 DVDs
Message: Posted by: ritty360 (Apr 11, 2008 06:22PM)
If I have buy three DVDs with these chuckle-heads in them to get what I need from this deck...I will just have to duck tape my head to keep it from exploding.
Message: Posted by: Doctor D (Apr 12, 2008 08:44AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-11 19:17, thefliss wrote:
I missed the part where it said what was on the 3 DVDs
[/quote]

No you didn't, the contents aren't listed.

From looking at all the cards, one can tell what some of the routines will be like. Do I really need Garcia's and Houchin's teaching on this? I know I wouldn't, but maybe magicians not as advanced as others (and we know E has plenty of those ;-)) could use some instruction.
I'd really hoped these DVD's would be a bit cheaper, or compressed down to two or even one disc (dare I say a book?), because I know Houchin and Garcia are hilarious together.
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Apr 12, 2008 09:56AM)
Obviously, we'll all have to wait until the release to determine how much of a value this is. I hope the DVDs are a decent length, though. I think this trend of issuing multiple DVDs when the contents of each are under an hour is really annoying. On the one hand, you have those "Ultimate Card Secret" compilations in which six hours is packed onto one disk, and then you have some DVD sets in which the disks are as low as 30 minutes. I know, I know, it's all about the quality of the effects, but I think given that these disk are supporting a single product, it would have been nice if all of the teaching could have been placed on one DVD. All of that said, maybe there's tons of great stuff on each with very detailed teaching... I guess we'll see next week.
Message: Posted by: taller8 (Apr 12, 2008 11:01AM)
How do people react to visible gaffed cards? Are they responding to a unique bicycle card? or is the actually effect pretty strong.

As an example:

I bought Richard Sanders King Stab where two forces cards end up on each of the swords of the King.

The card is part of the routine so it serves a purpose, as opposed to having a strange card and making up a routine around it.

If there truly are some killer routines that require a gimmicked card, then this could be a great deck, but it also could just be something magic hobbyists love to buy for a moment of eye candy.

Comments, opinions?
Message: Posted by: bekralik (Apr 12, 2008 11:10AM)
[with reference to bugjack's message] Or reduce the price of each disc accordingly. Since the costs aren't really increasing in proportion to the number of discs, the profit margins must be huge. I see most of the value and demand for quality being in the deck; all the rest is just revelation.
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Apr 12, 2008 11:35AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-12 12:01, taller8 wrote:
How do people react to visible gaffed cards? Are they responding to a unique bicycle card? or is the actually effect pretty strong.

As an example:

I bought Richard Sanders King Stab where two forces cards end up on each of the swords of the King.

The card is part of the routine so it serves a purpose, as opposed to having a strange card and making up a routine around it.

If there truly are some killer routines that require a gimmicked card, then this could be a great deck, but it also could just be something magic hobbyists love to buy for a moment of eye candy.

Comments, opinions?
[/quote]

I'm not big on visible gaffs, frankly. I think your quote about a moment of eye candy for the hobbyists (of which I am one) is apt. I remember standing in the Magic Apple in L.A. with a deck of the Ellusionist red gaffs in my hand thinking they looked really cool but ultimately restraining myself as I knew I'd never use them.

I do like the cards with the blue smears and the ones that look like they could be misprints -- those seem like they could seem a bit more unusual without screaming "trick cards."
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 12, 2008 11:41AM)
Until folks receive the cards and the DVD's, we really can't know how good they are. I'm saving for Bob Kohler's releases, so I'm holding off on big purchases for awhile.
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Apr 12, 2008 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-12 12:10, bekralik wrote:
[with reference to bugjack's message] Or reduce the price of each disc accordingly. Since the costs aren't really increasing in proportion to the number of discs, the profit margins must be huge. I see most of the value and demand for quality being in the deck; all the rest is just revelation.
[/quote]

Well, there are certainly increased replication costs, but I agree with your fundamental point. But, assuming there is less than a full disk's worth of material on each DVD, they are adding those costs in order to sell three separate products. What I think is a little annoying is that these cards are ostensibly created to perform specific routines, but to get the benefit of the single gaff product (the deck) you have to buy three separate DVDs.

Of course, if you like these cards you could always just dream up your own routines with them, which, in the end, might be the best approach.
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 12, 2008 01:50PM)
Yes I have a feeling the this is going to mirror the Loops DVDs.
There was about 45mins to an hour of content on each, And again, A total of three.
Unless these things have a couple hours on each DVD I really don't see the need for multiple DVDs. (Except of course the higher profit margin).
At least with the Loops DVDs there was sort of a reason what with three different magicians. But this? Its the same two guys. Unless theres a butt-load of content,
Why?

I love Danny's stuff and Wayne as well. But I think I'll pass on the DVDs.
I MIGHT pick up the deck IF it costs less than $25.00 just because I like some of the cards.

E probably thinks that at $90.00 for one DVD, No one will pick it up, And they are probably right. But if people think that they are getting three!!! That's a different story!! Interesting bit of psychological byplay. I'll give them that.

Tim
Message: Posted by: thefliss (Apr 12, 2008 02:37PM)
And what's with all of the 3DVD sets? Is there something inherently more attractive to 3 than 2 or 4?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 12, 2008 02:46PM)
Ah, the power of 3. We use it on audiences, no reason it shouldn't be used on us.
Message: Posted by: Merlin (Apr 12, 2008 07:18PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-12 14:50, Tim Jahn wrote:
But this? Its the same two guys. Unless theres a butt-load of content,
Why?

I love Danny's stuff and Wayne as well.
Tim
[/quote]

I thought, at one time, Justin Miller was also in on this project. That might be the third, but they do not mention Justin in their advert.

Phil
Message: Posted by: Justin N. Miller (Apr 12, 2008 08:05PM)
No I was not part of this project.

Now onto the cards. I have a deck, and I will tell you this the moment I got mine I was INSTANTLY IMPRESSED with what D:G and W:H came up with. These are REAL worker routines and they are the most unique gaff cards that have ever come out of a printing company. I have no ties with E anymore so I am not an E boy here to stir you guys up. THE truth is that these cards are something special and the magic that will be created with these cards will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for your on-looking audiences.

Justin N. Miller

THIS message will not self-destruct in 10 minutes but will be stored in the Café data base till a time they see fit or a hacker does his/her thing,either way it is copyrighted.
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 12, 2008 08:29PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-12 20:18, Merlin wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-12 14:50, Tim Jahn wrote:
But this? Its the same two guys. Unless theres a butt-load of content,
Why?

I love Danny's stuff and Wayne as well.
Tim
[/quote]


I thought, at one time, Justin Miller was also in on this project. That might be the third, but they do not mention Justin in their advert.

Phil
[/quote]

Well... In my opinion the loops DVDs didn't warrant a three disk release either.
You can't tell me that loops could not have fit on a single release.

It just happened that there where three magicians ..so it fit.
And it fit E's marketing plans quite nicely I'm sure.

With this, There are only two people and they are on each disk together.
So.. the splitting up seems to be financially motivated. Unless..As I said before..Theres a lot of content.

I like the way the cards look. Just looking a the pics. online is giving me a few ideas. Like I said, I'd love to get the cards...The DVDs, Not so much.

Tim
Message: Posted by: close_up_act (Apr 13, 2008 10:38AM)
Like many others we say we hate Ellusionist.com but we just need every effect that comes there way...I think the cards look good especially the color changing card routine they have...Personally I think the price is high because of the VH1 magic reallity show...its' going to be Ellusionist this and Ellusionist that...and they either want the laymen to spend money on easier less expensive effects then the more technical stuff which will turn a newbie off and never buy from Ellusionist again because its pricey and too difficult...I think I'll wait until the dvd's are posted on the Café at a resonable price.....i'm surprised Ellusionist didn't give the Café a special deal but that's neither here or there....


Junior
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 13, 2008 05:36PM)
I really don't think that the guys over at E like the café to well.
No opinions are really suppressed here and they don't really like that.
E wants to turn the whole world on to their site. Layman and magician alike, The money spends the same.

But all this is WAY off subject. Lets just talk about the deck and DVDs.
Myself I think I'll wait until a few people review all of this.
You never know... It might be a really great package. Of course...the opposite could be true as well.

Tim
Message: Posted by: inidyls (Apr 13, 2008 05:40PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-12 15:46, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
Ah, the power of 3. We use it on audiences, no reason it shouldn't be used on us.
[/quote]

SO TRUE
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 14, 2008 12:45AM)
I thought the Loops 3 DVD set was worth the money. I always thought Brad and his guys have done good work and have out out quality products.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Apr 14, 2008 03:26PM)
I didn't. they could have put all the stuff on one dvd and charged 30 - 40 but instead made it a set.

some of the material was very very redundant
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 14, 2008 04:19PM)
Thank God we have a place like the Café. I will wait to read the reviews. However, this will mean that I will miss my chance to get an uncut sheet autographed by DG & WH, or a autographed deck of cards as a bonus for anyone who orders within an hour of the official release date. (plug, plug,) lol

Does anyone know if that's gauranteed, or if you just have a chance if you order within the hour?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Apr 14, 2008 06:02PM)
It is just a "chance", so you might get an uncut sheet, a signed deck or nothing extra at all. Wonder which is most likely?
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 14, 2008 07:12PM)
Yay!(lol) I think I'll probally pass on this one. I'm not a big fan of those kind of marketing tactics. Plus, I already have a few gaffed decks from ellusionist(shame on me) and don't ever use them. They are nice to look at though.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 14, 2008 07:13PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-14 17:19, Gospel Dan wrote:
Thank God we have a place like the Café. I will wait to read the reviews. However, this will mean that I will miss my chance to get an uncut sheet autographed by DG & WH, or a autographed deck of cards as a bonus for anyone who orders within an hour of the official release date. (plug, plug,) lol

Does anyone know if that's gauranteed, or if you just have a chance if you order within the hour?
[/quote]

I would say just a chance.
Message: Posted by: jprace (Apr 14, 2008 07:24PM)
There is just a chance.
Message: Posted by: kiss_bpp (Apr 14, 2008 08:39PM)
My guess is if you truly want a sheet or signed deck go ahead and buy the full set. I don't see that many people jumping for the full set based on the price and previous products put out by E.
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 14, 2008 08:47PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-14 16:26, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I didn't. they could have put all the stuff on one dvd and charged 30 - 40 but instead made it a set.

some of the material was very very redundant
[/quote]

AMEN!!!
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 14, 2008 08:55PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-14 21:39, kiss_bpp wrote:
My guess is if you truly want a sheet or signed deck go ahead and buy the full set. I don't see that many people jumping for the full set based on the price and previous products put out by E.
[/quote]

No, thanks(lol) I was only joking about wanting an autographed deck or uncut sheet. I agree with you, I don't see too many people jumping on it for the chance of it. I'm curious to see the total length of all 3 DVD's, and if there is any real justification for having three DVD's or if it's just taking advantage of people with a quick cash grab. I think that's why they are having the 1 hour bonus thing. To get as many sales as possible before the reviews are in.
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Apr 15, 2008 03:17PM)
I chuckled when I saw the Linking card effect using the gaffed card. Pretty creative thinking on that Paul Harris plot!
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 15, 2008 03:23PM)
Apparently they are having technical difficulties on the website
Message: Posted by: kiss_bpp (Apr 15, 2008 03:28PM)
I wonder if it was another marketing ploy or true legit issues. I personally do want to pick up the deck but the $90 for the videos is a joke. I will have plenty of fun making up my own stuff with these. Alike the previously gaffed decks they put out.
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 15, 2008 03:29PM)
I like some of the stuff ellusionist has put out..but I feel like they are gouging with 90 bucks for 3 dvds
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 16, 2008 08:23AM)
Looks like they are going to start the promotion again today...im still out until the price gets better
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 16, 2008 09:30AM)
Yeah me too. I'll buy a few books.

The whole "Site problem due to OVERWHELMING response" thing seems kind of far fetched. Not a few hours after this "Supposedly" went down I had a e-mail from E complete with graphics and links about the new release date and all the details.
That was pretty fast Huh?

Even if it did happen it was probably due to the system having a bug in checkout for the new item. Not "OVERWHELMING" response.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Donny Orbit (Apr 16, 2008 09:45AM)
If you look at the effects listing on each dvd, one dvd only has 5 effects taught. All 3 dvd's cover 20 total effects. I honestly think that this could have been broken down into a 2 dvd set with Wayne teaching his effects on one and Danny teaching his on another.

DO
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 16, 2008 12:02PM)
My guess is that in a couple of months they will run a special with the 3 dvd set much cheaper...
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 16, 2008 03:17PM)
I wonder if ellusionist is having any problems today
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 16, 2008 05:45PM)
Yay, lack of buyers willing to pay $90.00 US. In Canadian currency I think that works out to $300.00.(lol) (:
Message: Posted by: Chappo (Apr 17, 2008 04:27AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-16 10:30, Tim Jahn wrote:
Yeah me too. I'll buy a few books.

The whole "Site problem due to OVERWHELMING response" thing seems kind of far fetched. Not a few hours after this "Supposedly" went down I had a e-mail from E complete with graphics and links about the new release date and all the details.
That was pretty fast Huh?

Even if it did happen it was probably due to the system having a bug in checkout for the new item. Not "OVERWHELMING" response.

Tim
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly... To be honest, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Note how that an enormous email post was sent out following the alleged problem. Using such terms as 'server overload' ' sheer weight of customers'. ;)
Message: Posted by: Jason Simonds (Apr 17, 2008 08:47AM)
How does this compare with Sankey's Hypervisual gaffs?
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 17, 2008 09:34AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 05:27, Chappo wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-16 10:30, Tim Jahn wrote:
Yeah me too. I'll buy a few books.

The whole "Site problem due to OVERWHELMING response" thing seems kind of far fetched. Not a few hours after this "Supposedly" went down I had a e-mail from E complete with graphics and links about the new release date and all the details.
That was pretty fast Huh?

Even if it did happen it was probably due to the system having a bug in checkout for the new item. Not "OVERWHELMING" response.

Tim
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly... To be honest, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Note how that an enormous email post was sent out following the alleged problem. Using such terms as 'server overload' ' sheer weight of customers'. ;)
[/quote]

They seemed to have everything ready to go huh. There hasn't been that quick a response by anyone since the cops surrounded Lee Harvey Oswald in the movie theater.
E's kind of losing it from where I'm sitting. They lost most of their big names and now seem to think that MTV is the best answer. I really like a lot of the stuff that E has put out in the past. I haven't seen Brad in anything for quite a while. Those older DVDs are what made E great.


I just looked through all the pages on E's site. The deal that they are offering is that you get the deck free if you buy all three DVDs. Funny that that wasn't mentioned before either. The deck by itself is $30.00. I might pick up the deck later. Unless the reviews are absolutely stellar for the DVDs I don't think I'll pick them up. You never know though, They may be really good. Time will tell.
Another thing that I don't understand is, Why no download? They offer almost everything they have as a download. Heck they practically pioneered downloads for the magic community. And now they suddenly stop? Why?

Weird stuff.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Apr 17, 2008 09:59AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 10:34, Tim Jahn wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 05:27, Chappo wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-16 10:30, Tim Jahn wrote:
Yeah me too. I'll buy a few books.

The whole "Site problem due to OVERWHELMING response" thing seems kind of far fetched. Not a few hours after this "Supposedly" went down I had a e-mail from E complete with graphics and links about the new release date and all the details.
That was pretty fast Huh?

Even if it did happen it was probably due to the system having a bug in checkout for the new item. Not "OVERWHELMING" response.

Tim
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly... To be honest, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Note how that an enormous email post was sent out following the alleged problem. Using such terms as 'server overload' ' sheer weight of customers'. ;)
[/quote]

They seemed to have everything ready to go huh. There hasn't been that quick a response by anyone since the cops surrounded Lee Harvey Oswald in the movie theater.
E's kind of losing it from where I'm sitting. They lost most of their big names and now seem to think that MTV is the best answer. I really like a lot of the stuff that E has put out in the past. I haven't seen Brad in anything for quite a while. Those older DVDs are what made E great.


I just looked through all the pages on E's site. The deal that they are offering is that you get the deck free if you buy all three DVDs. Funny that that wasn't mentioned before either. The deck by itself is $30.00. I might pick up the deck later. Unless the reviews are absolutely stellar for the DVDs I don't think I'll pick them up. You never know though, They may be really good. Time will tell.
Another thing that I don't understand is, Why no download? They offer almost everything they have as a download. Heck they practically pioneered downloads for the magic community. And now they suddenly stop? Why?

Weird stuff.

Tim
[/quote]

Actually, the free deck if you buy all 3 dvd has been around from the start. But realistically, I believe Ellusionist knows that they would only get ~20 dollars per dvd if even that. So, the package for all 3 includes the 3 dvds for 20 bucks each along with the deck for the full price of 30 dollars. BUT, for people that buy the deck separately and then later on decide they would like to purchase the dvds, they have to pay the increased price of 30 dollars for each dvd.
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 17, 2008 10:08AM)
I like the dvds Crash Course 1 and 2 and think they are worth the 29 dollar price tag. I know that these guys do this for a living so I value their work...but for me the price is too high currently...who knows what will happen in the future...besides..i probably couldn't do the tricks anyway:)
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Apr 17, 2008 11:37AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 10:59, Newb2 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 10:34, Tim Jahn wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 05:27, Chappo wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-04-16 10:30, Tim Jahn wrote:
Yeah me too. I'll buy a few books.

The whole "Site problem due to OVERWHELMING response" thing seems kind of far fetched. Not a few hours after this "Supposedly" went down I had a e-mail from E complete with graphics and links about the new release date and all the details.
That was pretty fast Huh?

Even if it did happen it was probably due to the system having a bug in checkout for the new item. Not "OVERWHELMING" response.

Tim
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly... To be honest, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Note how that an enormous email post was sent out following the alleged problem. Using such terms as 'server overload' ' sheer weight of customers'. ;)
[/quote]

They seemed to have everything ready to go huh. There hasn't been that quick a response by anyone since the cops surrounded Lee Harvey Oswald in the movie theater.
E's kind of losing it from where I'm sitting. They lost most of their big names and now seem to think that MTV is the best answer. I really like a lot of the stuff that E has put out in the past. I haven't seen Brad in anything for quite a while. Those older DVDs are what made E great.


I just looked through all the pages on E's site. The deal that they are offering is that you get the deck free if you buy all three DVDs. Funny that that wasn't mentioned before either. The deck by itself is $30.00. I might pick up the deck later. Unless the reviews are absolutely stellar for the DVDs I don't think I'll pick them up. You never know though, They may be really good. Time will tell.
Another thing that I don't understand is, Why no download? They offer almost everything they have as a download. Heck they practically pioneered downloads for the magic community. And now they suddenly stop? Why?

Weird stuff.

Tim
[/quote]

Actually, the free deck if you buy all 3 dvd has been around from the start. But realistically, I believe Ellusionist knows that they would only get ~20 dollars per dvd if even that. So, the package for all 3 includes the 3 dvds for 20 bucks each along with the deck for the full price of 30 dollars. BUT, for people that buy the deck separately and then later on decide they would like to purchase the dvds, they have to pay the increased price of 30 dollars for each dvd.
[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up about the free deck being avalable from the start. I honestly had not heard about it until the release. Sorry for the error.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 17, 2008 12:19PM)
Doesn't FREE mean legally as "without obligation to buy or purchase anything"? Many years ago I worked for a marketing company who got a call from the BBB in regards to the sale pitch staff were using. "If you purchase this today, you will receive this absolutely free!" The BBB had received complaints so they contacted our manager to inform them that the legal definition for "Free" is without obligation to buy or purchase anything. This was about 20 years ago. I have seen so much advertising using the word free that it has always made me wonder if our company was the only company ever picked on for that.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Apr 17, 2008 03:29PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 13:19, Gospel Dan wrote:
Doesn't FREE mean legally as "without obligation to buy or purchase anything"? Many years ago I worked for a marketing company who got a call from the BBB in regards to the sale pitch staff were using. "If you purchase this today, you will receive this absolutely free!" The BBB had received complaints so they contacted our manager to inform them that the legal definition for "Free" is without obligation to buy or purchase anything. This was about 20 years ago. I have seen so much advertising using the word free that it has always made me wonder if our company was the only company ever picked on for that.
[/quote]

Nothing, absolutely nothing, is without legal obligation...including death.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Apr 17, 2008 03:33PM)
Don't grocery stores do that all the time? "Buy one, get one free" You can't just go in and grab a free one. I guess that could also be marketed as "50% off", but I see signs all the time for "buy one, get one free"

I suppose that free can be a condition of purchase. This certainly isn't the first time or company to offer a promotion like this.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 17, 2008 04:00PM)
I realize that guys.(lol) I see it all the time as well. I just thought I would bring up something that happened to us several years ago. It was strange at the time, and I have never heard it happening to anyone else. We had to change our sales pitch from "Free" to, "as a bonus with no extra cost" :)
Message: Posted by: Salby (Apr 17, 2008 06:46PM)
.
How about getting that "Free" toy in your box of Frosted Flakes cereal??

The box advertises that there is "NO PURCHASE NECESSARY" and it s written right on the box.... Can you just go into the store, open the box, take the "Free" toy and walk out of the store with your newly acquired "Free" toy???

Isn't this legal to do if it states "NO PURCHASE NECESSARY"????
.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 17, 2008 07:54PM)
"Holy Cow man"(lol) Didn't know I was going to raise your blood pressure.(lol)

By the way, you can just mail in your request from the cereal company and they will send you your toy for free. :) If not, let me know. I'll call them and give them a piece of my mind.(lol)
Cheers!
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 17, 2008 09:07PM)
On 2008-04-17 13:19, Gospel Dan wrote:
Doesn't FREE mean legally as "without obligation to buy or purchase anything"? Many years ago I worked for a marketing company who got a call from the BBB in regards to the sale pitch staff were using. "If you purchase this today, you will receive this absolutely free!" The BBB had received complaints so they contacted our manager to inform them that the legal definition for "Free" is without obligation to buy or purchase anything. This was about 20 years ago. I have seen so much advertising using the word free that it has always made me wonder if our company was the only company ever picked on for that.


I apologize to anyone who took my post too serious. Again, I was just bringing up something that happened to a company called Nor-Pac Marketing that I worked for 20 years ago. I thought it was ridiculous that the BBB made us get rid of the word free.

I think I'll go back from under the rock I came out of now.(lol)
Message: Posted by: JustinVisible (Apr 18, 2008 08:37AM)
Well, I received my "Bundle" yesterday and I didn't win anything free... Just some extra newspaper for shipping. But I do have a review of the stuff (as mentioned in the card forum)...

I will do my best to remember "everything" from yesterday and going thru the DVDs and cards. Let's start with the cards...

The cards, I feel, are worth every penny. Daniel and Wayne have really thought out some great things with some of these cards. Some stuff is just way better than the others BUT almost all of it is gonna be different from what you already own. My top 6 gaffs thus far, just off of watching and handling them briefly would be (in no particular order)

- Lottery Card
- Battery Cards
- King/Queen Grouping Cards
- 8C Revelation Cards
- "Card Stab" Card
- Card Stack for disappearing "thought" of card

The other cards are good too just these would be my favorites right now. The quality and finish of the cards is top notch. The design of the cards will work with multiple sleights so you are not limited to flipping the card one way or showing it another. You have a lot of possibilities here (5/5). As for the DVDs...

I feel as a consumer that all 3 DVDs could have been compiled onto 1 DVD maybe 2 DVDs in a one case, 2 disc type of set. I was also disappointed that there was not more "live performances" for people not in the know. I mean if these cards were "real world tested" for quite some time, to make sure they were the optimum gaffed cards, don't you think there should be some of that footage?? Even other magicians reacting to the gaffs would have been nice. Nothing wrong with the banter between Daniel and Wayne but it was like every other segment had some inside joke that took away from the presentation. A lot of extra info could have shortened the DVD and made it more cost worthy to the consumer. Why not some more footage like on the "Guerilla Loops" DVDs of lay people who work at Ellusionist to get some more peopel reactions.... (3/5)

The overall teaching of the routines and sleights and thought process behind the card developments definitely makes up for the issue above. Daniel and Wayne are at the peak of their game in explaining the stuff. They go into full detail and cover all of the different nuances that may occur or you may think of doing. They have 2 different styles of performing and 2 styles of acheiving the desired effect. So you have 2 ways for a majority of the effects to happen. The DVD is setup so you see Daniel, Wayne, or for the most part Both performing the routine. The next segment is the actual gaffed cards used and the thoght process and psychology and such behind them and the setup. The third segment is the actual working behind the routine. A nice and easy way to navigate thru the DVDs if you want to see somethign specific. And again, no 45-60sec "Here is the card". Full, in depth detail and workings. Daniel and Wayne behind a bar 2 on 1 explaining. (4/5)

The overall DVD quality is great. Very simple and friendly menus (although that darn theme music is really starting to get to me - anyone else :) )and creat camera shots and the appropriate angles when needed. You can defintely tell that they made sure that they put the time in necessary to get a great, overall produced product.

All in all, I would give this "Bundle" 4 stars out of 5. The cost and "bundling" would be the determining factor for a better rating. The deck is a definite 5 out of 5. A big thank you to Daniel and Wayne for releasing this stuff to the magic community. Definitely pick up the deck. As it stands right now, the bundle is a decent buy b/c it is only $90 for 3 DVDs and a full Gaffed Deck. So as someone mentioned in this thread earlier, it is like $30 for the deck, and $20 a DVD. I am not regreting my recent purchase (except for that theme music..... )

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Justin
Message: Posted by: ixnay66 (Apr 18, 2008 09:57AM)
The posts regarding "Free" made me think of an annoying mattress company in California. The commercials always ended with the guy saying "We'll beat any offer or your mattress is FREEEEE!!!"

I always thought that was so ridiculous. I can see it now:
"Hey, your competitors sell the same mattress for $200 cheaper then you."

"$200??? I can't beat a price THAT low so I guess you can have the mattress for free."

That ad probably works because the world is full of idiots.
Message: Posted by: taller8 (Apr 18, 2008 10:06AM)
Wow, an actually review of the product. Thanks Justin for the free review.
Message: Posted by: JustinVisible (Apr 18, 2008 10:38AM)
No Problem. Once in a while I am good for something on this here Café!!!

Cheers,

Justin
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Apr 18, 2008 11:01AM)
Great review Justin. Could you let me know how long each DVD is. From your review, it's sounds like the investment is worth it.
Message: Posted by: booswain (Apr 18, 2008 11:05AM)
Looks like a decent package. I am going to work on some of the stuff I have already purchased and maybe look into this later. Has anyone bought the I hate david Copperfield trick.
Message: Posted by: kiss_bpp (Apr 18, 2008 05:29PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-18 12:05, booswain wrote:
Looks like a decent package. I am going to work on some of the stuff I have already purchased and maybe look into this later. Has anyone bought the I hate david Copperfield trick.
[/quote]
If you are looking for that effect pick up the Magic for Mortals DVD it at least has a couple more tricks on it for the extra $15.(Retail or $10 at Penguin)

MIRACLES FOR MORTALS: Killer Magic for the Rest of Us
Volume One
by Geoff Williams

Volume One Contents:

ELECTRICAL ARTLET - Boom box cord too short to reach the wall outlet? No problem; just draw an outlet on a pad of paper, plug in the cord and the music starts right up! Based on a Fantasio effect and used with his permission.

UPLOOPTED - A horizontal card levitation that looks UNBELIEVABLE!

THE "I HATE DAVID Copperfield" TRICK - Based on "Close-Up Illusion" by Larry Jennings, a card VISIBLY MELTS through another. The visuals here go WAY BEYOND the original.

THE OMEGA BET - Based on the Karl Fulves effect, Bob Wagner has turned this into a KILLER piece of entertainment, a 5-phase whirlwind of fun for everyone in the room! A random spectator decides the final, and most impossible, bet of all. The routine uses my false overhand shuffle (which is quite easy but appears totally fair).

MORE ON "OIL & WATER" - Sam Schwartz's wondrous 3-phase, 8-card O & W routine with NO SLEIGHTS! NONE! Thanks to Sam for allowing me to include this gem with minor handling changes.

MIRACLE COIN VANISH - This gets GASPS from spectators. Looks like real magic. (Note: a jacket or sportcoat is required)

JUST A BIT MORE ULTIMATE THAN JOHN MENDOZA'S "ULTIMATE TORN & RESTORED CARD" - The name says it all. In an e-mail to me, Mr. Mendoza (a close-up DEITY) said he thinks more of this method (of his trick which appeared in "The Book of John") than any of the "piece-by-piece" restorations out there. You're clean at the first and clean at the end. As a bonus, it's SUPER EASY to do even though the card is SIGNED ON BOTH SIDES!

Volume One Bonus Effects:

INVISIBLE DECK FINESSE - Makes using an Invisible Deck more fun than ever (and the reset is DURING the routine).

FORKLIFT - Move silverware with your mind!

4-WAY COINCIDENCE - A reworking of a stunning prediction routine by John Murray from "Card Cavalcade 3" by Jerry Mentzer (included with Jerry's permission). Use a borrowed, thoroughly-shuffled deck. There's only one real "move" (which is laughably simple).
Message: Posted by: kiss_bpp (Apr 18, 2008 05:31PM)
But back on topic of anyone who has the dvds how is the content of them? Is it just obvious effects for the gaffs or is there any thing completely off the wall in there?
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Apr 19, 2008 01:00AM)
I've just posted a full, very in-depth (over 4000 words) review of the complete DVD trilogy and the deck itself in the DVD section of the review part of the board. I cover every trick on each DVD, as well as offer some general thoughts on the project.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 19, 2008 02:14AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-19 02:00, Mercury52 wrote:
I've just posted a full, very in-depth (over 4000 words) review of the complete DVD trilogy and the deck itself in the DVD section of the review part of the board. I cover every trick on each DVD, as well as offer some general thoughts on the project.
[/quote]

Mercury52 went above and beyond to give a detailed review of what can be found on these disks: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=255039&forum=111
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Apr 21, 2008 01:31AM)
I have only been involved in magic for about two years, and I have many Ellusionish products. Brad is everywhere in Ellusionish DVDs, but I have never seen or heard of him outside of Ellusionish. Is he any good?

I am expecting my DVD set with Deck on Thursday, and hopefully I learn a thing or two from it. Again, I am legally deaf and been trying to get "E" to subtitle their DVDs, but as far as I can see they have not done it yet. They told me they would look into it, but I feel they have not made any honest effort to subtitling any of their DVDs. Sometimes I feel they don't give a **** about the deaf community. I am angry about it, and yet I continue to buy their DVDs. I saw the preview on the web site with DG laughing it up with what looks like his parents, it truely annoys me to watch that when you can't hear what they are saying. Who cares if they can laugh, who wants to watch that with no sound? The trick(s) better be good!

This will be my last DVD from the Big Famous Ellusionish if I have a hard time figuring out what they are doing on that 3-DVD set. I have had enough of their LAME excuses.
Message: Posted by: Thales (May 1, 2008 12:47PM)
Hey madkiki sorry about that no subtitling thing. That would really suck to not be able to understand what they are saying on the DVD's. Someone should invent a hand held speech recognition device that you could place next to your computer or TV's speakers and it would convert the sound of people speaking into text on to an LCD, if it is not already out there.

Anyway, I ordered the 3 DVD's and actually won a signed ultragaff deck (signed by both W:H and Danny) plus a sealed ultragaff deck which is pretty nice. When I went through the cards in the signed deck I noticed that eight of them were cut off center so that you had parts of two cards on one card. Anyway it made those cards useless to anyone but a collector of E errors (and I do not know any of them). I contacted E about the error cards, sent them a picture of them, and they sent me another ultragaff deck while letting me keep the deck that had the error cards most of which are normal. So how is that for getting my moneys worth?

As for the product I think the cards are great and the DVD is well made and has a bunch of very nice effects on it. I think that Wayne and Danny do a little too much joking around which makes for a lot of filler. It is kind of neat to get a sense for how they are when they are just hanging out and they do give some good tips as they wonder off topic often. If you are a fan of those two guys you will most likely enjoy the DVD set.

Because of the nature of gaff card tricks I will likely only use one or two of the effects on the DVD's in my routine at any one time. I don't want to be known for being the guy with gaff cards. Luckily a few of the tricks are such that the spectators never know that any gaff cards were used which is ideal.

One other negative I can point out is that the effects covered on the three DVD's are not listed on the DVD's or the cases. So if you remember a cool effect from the DVD's (but not which DVD it was on) and want to go over the handling of that effect again you have to 33.3% chance of picking the right DVD the first time and a 50% chance of picking the right DVD if the first DVD you pick was not the right one. The good new is that by the third pick, if you were paying attention to which Volumes you have already look at, you have a 100% chance of picking correctly. Or you can do what E should have thought to do and label each DVD yourself.

As noted elsewhere the DVD set does not cover an effect for each card in the Ultragaff deck. Wayne and Danny do go over some quick ideas for how the other cards could be used and encourage you to come up with your own effect with them. They also hint that they may release more ultragaff card effects "underground" to the magic community in the future which sounds like a great idea to stimulate more sales of the ultragaff deck in a year or two. I could also see them putting together a follow up DVD with ultragaff card effects invented by the rest of us. E would be smart to have a competition where its members could send in all of their ultragaff card effects and ten winners would get their effects on the follow up DVD and maybe get a signed free copy of the DVD or a T-shirt or something.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (May 1, 2008 01:30PM)
[quote]

Because of the nature of gaff card tricks I will likely only use one or two of the effects on the DVD's in my routine at any one time. I don't want to be known for being the guy with gaff cards. Luckily a few of the tricks are such that the spectators never know that any gaff cards were used which is ideal.
[/quote]

that's what I don;t get about this special types of gaffed cards. if they know your using a "gaff" card, wheres the magic?
Message: Posted by: Barry Daugherty (May 1, 2008 01:49PM)
I didn't think this needed to be stated, but perhaps I'm wrong. Consider the following.

Imagine a lay person watching a magician perform with a deck of cards. Let's say a magician takes the selected 3 of hearts and smears the ink across the face.

In the mind of a lay spectator, the thought isn't "Oh, he switched my card for this GAFFED card that has smeared ink on it."

No, instead, the thought is "He took my normal 3 of hearts and smeared the ink across the face."

Do you see the difference? The magic is the surprise that somethiing has happened to the absolutely normal card that I have just held in my hand.
Message: Posted by: Thales (May 1, 2008 04:33PM)
I agree. But I think it is important to use a simple red bicycle deck when doing any gaff card tricks. Use any of the fancy Black Tiger Split Ghost Zombie type decks and the spectator will immediately start to question the deck. Red Bicycle deck. Plain, simple, everyday, common, NORMAL!

The other use for the gaff card trick is humor. A number of the tricks on the Ultragaff DVD set are more humor based (like Sexy and Dead Cell) then shock and awe mind blowing. Sometimes it is fun to lighten things up a bit between the mind blowing stuff.
Message: Posted by: taller8 (May 1, 2008 07:37PM)
It's too bad that they force feed you 3 dvd's to get an idea of how to use the entire deck of cards.

No matter how good some of the effects are, how many gaffed card tricks do you really want to do?

I personally don't want 3 dvd's worth of material when I'd probably only use maybe 3 effects. And that is not counting the gaffed card effects I already own.

Ex: Three card Monte, Sidewalk shuffle, King Stab.

I bought the CAJ deck and harldy ever use those cards. But they were fun to look at, but then the novelty wears off pretty fast.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (May 3, 2008 03:05PM)
I am not sure the location or a pint of beer nearby was a good idea. Are they saying we have to be drunk and stupid to use these gaff cards? They were both clowning around a lot as if they might have been drunk. I think it is disrespectful the way they filmed these instructional DVDs. It is too bad I could not hear a word they said the entire 3-DVD set, had to use my eyes and get the impression that they were drunk as skunks.

Could someone please interpret what they said the entire 7 hours? HEY, I have a great idea, try including subtitles!

The tricks were pretty cool though, and I am planning to go out and use them. I won't be bar hopping to entertain people, I will just go out and meet ordinary folks who are willing to see some good old fashion magic.

Have fun!
Message: Posted by: wallmott (May 4, 2008 04:31PM)
Can someone tell me what sleights are on the dvds? Im not a very advances card magician I know the basics and somemore, but I cant afford to buy other dvds to get the sleights needed.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (May 5, 2008 03:38PM)
[quote]
In the mind of a lay spectator, the thought isn't "Oh, he switched my card for this GAFFED card that has smeared ink on it."

No, instead, the thought is "He took my normal 3 of hearts and smeared the ink across the face."
[/quote]

Of course a spec is not going think "gaff card".
They will think that the card is "real".

I am not saying this is always the case but 95% of the tricks i'v seen with these types of gaff cards are poorly constructed and I think its a real issue, to think otherwise is to think people are complete idiots
Message: Posted by: Veneficus Cruor (Jun 14, 2008 04:19PM)
I personally have BOUGHT the deck AND ALL 3 DVDs, it is well worth the money, all the sleights that you use DG and WH teach you, it is really awesome and you can do the color changing trick in like 15-20 minutes, I highly recommend it.
Message: Posted by: FrenchFryNecromancer (Apr 7, 2009 07:39PM)
I bought the deck and DVDs, and I have to say that I really liked the material. The DVDs go into detail on the handling and sleights involved, so I even learned some new slights along the way. Sure it is semi-expensive, but I feel it was worth it. My favorite trick is without a doubt Tricycle. I have performed this trick several times, and it gets great reactions. Anyone else especially love/hate this trick?

My only problem is that Danny and Wayne mention on the DVD that they are going to list some more ideas for the UltraGaff deck as they come up with more material. But this has never happened to my knowledge!! What a let down..... :-f