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Topic: Charach's Pricing
Message: Posted by: rtgreen (May 2, 2008 02:30PM)
Think it is time for a reality check for me. I was looking at Randy Charach's book and he states the he charges $2,500 for an hour of strolling or a 30 minute standup at a corporate Christmas party and can sometimes work 3 show a night at this time of year. Like everyone, I think, my prices tend to be higher at Christmas because of the higher demand, but I've never topped $1,000 for a 30 minute show - and that amount is not typical, but is closer to the $500 - $700 range.

No need to go into pricing details here, I know some people are guarded when it comes to discussing money, but is Randy's rate considered close to the norm? or is he saying when you have enough experience you can get these kind of rates?

Thanks,
Richard
Message: Posted by: Mr Amazeo (May 2, 2008 03:01PM)
I've never heard of anyone making that kind of money for walk around in my area.

Your prices are more common to what I've heard of for a lot of the corporate holiday party type gigs around here, but I do have a very good friend that gets $2500 for his stage show (more of an exception, not the rule - plus, he's got a great agent.)

Personally, I'd never book 3 shows in one day, too many unknowns can creep into your schedule.

Here's another opinion: http://www.magicwebchannel.com/dennis_getRich.htm
Message: Posted by: CanadianMagicguy (May 2, 2008 03:08PM)
Hi Richard,
I have known Randy for upwards of 30 years now and let's just say that most of us here like to keep him at the other end of a ten foot pole. I'm not saying that it is an out and out lie, I guess if he were to find someone gullible enough to pay that much it could very well be true. I would not consider those rates to be even close to the "norm".

Bruce
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 2, 2008 03:21PM)
Hi Richard -

I've sent you a PM.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 2, 2008 03:23PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-02 16:01, Mr Amazeo wrote:
Here's another opinion: http://www.magicwebchannel.com/dennis_getRich.htm
[/quote]

And here's another opinion about Dennis Regling (read the whole thread):

[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=113919&forum=44&start=60]Cafe thread titled... Article on Marketing for Magicians[/url]

- Donald
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (May 2, 2008 04:14PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-02 15:30, rtgreen wrote:
Think it is time for a reality check for me. I've never topped $1,000 for a 30 minute show - and that amount is not typical, but is closer to the $500 - $700 range.

you have enough experience you can get these kind of rates?
[/quote]

Richard,
Not saying that Randy does or does not get these rates - I do not know him. But remember that there are all levels of show business. There are no name speakers who get $5,000 - $10,000 plus expenses for a 60 minute talk. Bill Cosby made $50,000 a few years ago for just showing up at an event - not doing his routine, just being there.

Are any of them better than you? I don't know. Do they know how to get that amount and satisfy a client's needs. Yes. It really depends on what market you choose to work, what they are used to paying, and how you position yourself to be worth that.

Imagine, $50,000 just for showing up. Heck, I'd do my whole show for that! :)

BTW - It was revealed on another thread so I don't feel the need to keep it quiet any longer. Most of you are familiar with Gigmasters. If you want to get an idea of what people quote, simply go there, do a search and click on the quick quote button on any listing. It doesn't show you the final agreed upon price, but it does give you an idea of what others are quoting.
Message: Posted by: rtgreen (May 2, 2008 04:45PM)
I wish I could get paid for just showing up! That's not to say I haven't been offered good sums of money to just go away . . .

:)

Thanks,
Richard
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (May 3, 2008 02:59PM)
Whatever the market will bear...
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (May 3, 2008 04:01PM)
Keep in mind some key events for companies they pay $20,000 to $50,000 and up for catering bills, $10 to $20 grand in door prizes and giveaways... Why should the entertainment only cost $200??????

The key is getting into the area of the market that spend this amount on events...
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 3, 2008 11:13PM)
Bingo! ...and asking for and getting what you are asking for congruently and can DELIVER ON! (Too, as stated before, it is also a "mindset" thing.)

Deano in Reno
<><
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 4, 2008 11:13AM)
I don't do corporate events of this magnitude (and I also don't do adult-only shows), but I know some performers who get this type of money.

However, I would suggest that if a person was getting that type of money, their customer service would be at a level where they aren't trying to cram a bunch of different customers into a single evening. They are more likely to focus entirely on servicing a single customer to their very best, rather than trying to juggle three.

I could be wrong, but I believe that performers who command a higher fee think and behave in a different way.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (May 4, 2008 11:37AM)
Only Elliott Spitzer the X governor of New York would pay that kind of money, and for that money he wouldn't expect you to perform just magic for him. LOL
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (May 4, 2008 12:45PM)
Al,

You be surprise who will pay the larger fees. If they like your style and they want you at thier event... The fee does not really matter as much as one may think.

Keep in mind as magician/entertainers we see all type of magic over and over but a buyer might think that a particular style and trick is cool or new and they want to have it!

Donald,
Depending on the type of event/magic performed I might only do one or two a day... The larger stuff usually one a day the close up magic 2 or 3 events are fine...
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (May 4, 2008 01:19PM)
Curtis
Only you live in La La Land. I live among working class folk, and on rare occasions I get $250 an hour. I believe that the richest man in the world is the Sultan of Bruni, someone should ask Silly Billy how much the Sultan of Bruni pays for a kids birthday party in his Central Park South Hotel.
Message: Posted by: Brian Lehr (May 4, 2008 01:23PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-04 14:19, Al Angello wrote:
Curtis
Only you live in La La Land. I live among working class folk, and on rare occasions I get $250 an hour.
[/quote]

How do I relocate to La La Land? :)

Brian
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 4, 2008 03:45PM)
The money "IS" there... you just have to know how to ask for it and then deliver on the perceived value invested in.

I live in a SMALL to Medium sized town with VERY FEW Big Corporations (Other than the Casinos, and there is NOT even a “ton” of those…) and still ‘some’ say the same thing (That there is no money) and yet other of us are getting real money on a regular basis… go figure. I guess it is like I said… often it is a mindset thing.
It’s up to YOU.

I am at your service and In HIS Service,
Deano (Believes & Gets it) in Reno
<><

PS
By the way, already UNDERSTAND that not all will ‘agree’. THAT is part n’ parcel the POINT! Henry Ford had it right.
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (May 4, 2008 04:24PM)
Al, again when I lived in NYC there are big fees to be sought for. Also I have had clients who had me in smaller parts of the US that paid LA prices.... :)

Think big and become things small and be small....

Will every client pay high fees? No...
Are there clients out there that will pay a high fee for good entertainment? YES ...
So which one do you want to hunt out?
Message: Posted by: todsky (May 4, 2008 04:44PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-04 16:45, TheDean wrote:
PS
By the way, already UNDERSTAND that not all will ‘agree’. THAT is part n’ parcel the POINT! Henry Ford had it right.
[/quote]

Just for the record, Henry Ford was also a rabid anti-semite and good friend to Hitler, so I would say he had it wrong in a fundamental way.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (May 4, 2008 05:38PM)
...didn't think Hitler would come upin this post! HA!@!
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (May 4, 2008 05:59PM)
Richard
Some here say that $2,500 for 30 minutes of walk around is a no brainer, and others here who know Randy personally say that he is full of baloney. I would be very interested to find out from you just how easy it is to get that $2,500 for 30 minutes of walk around magic, and to book three of those gigs for the same day would be a real trick.
Lots of Ruck
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 4, 2008 07:11PM)
Nice… (NOT)

[quote] Just for the record, Henry Ford was also a rabid anti-semite and good friend to Hitler, so I would say he had it wrong in a fundamental way. [/quote]

…and THIS has what to do with the discussion at hand? How is THAT “Magician’s Helping Magician’s” or this discussion… but hey, I knew some would disagree, just not in such a way. Oh well… go figure.

How sad.

The QUOTE that is attributed to Henry Ford who it is said that he said: (As Stated MANY Times in this section of the Café.) “Whether You THINK You Can Or You THINK You Can’t… Your RIGHT.”

Certainly there are many quotes by many who express the same perspective, Napoleon Hill, Anthony Robbins, Zig Ziggler and so many others… none of whom, OURSELVES INCLUDED that ever could teach a “Walking On Water Class at the YMCA”.

Thanks for YOUR help though…

See ya.

Deano (shaking his head in dismay) in Reno
<><
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 4, 2008 08:10PM)
[quote]On 2008-05-02 15:30, rtgreen wrote:
Think it is time for a reality check for me. I was looking at Randy Charach's book and he states the he charges $2,500 for an hour of strolling or a 30 minute standup at a corporate Christmas party and can sometimes work 3 show a night at this time of year. [/quote]

[quote]On 2008-05-04 18:59, Al Angello wrote:
Some here say that $2,500 for 30 minutes of walk around is a no brainer, and others here who know Randy personally say that he is full of baloney. I would be very interested to find out from you just how easy it is to get that $2,500 for 30 minutes of walk around magic, and to book three of those gigs for the same day would be a real trick.[/quote]

How did a 30 minutes stand-up show OR an hour of strolling magic (original post on the thread) get twisted together into 30 minutes of strolling magic?

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (May 4, 2008 08:18PM)
Donald
I don't care if it's walk around, stand up, sit down, lay down, or a stand on you head job. Changing the subject will not change the math.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 4, 2008 08:31PM)
Hi Al -

I know pros who charge more than $2000 per show, and who are workers earning a FT living. I'm not going to name names (its not my business to reveal things they have told me in confidential conversations).

I know I'm not in their league, but I acknowledge that their league exists.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (May 4, 2008 08:34PM)
Al,

I know a country club that paid a magician $250 and books her once a year and the country club books another magician twice a year at $2200...


However Al you are right you can't get the $2,000 rate.... and Donald is right that there are guys who can....
Just choices they have made!
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (May 4, 2008 08:42PM)
This is too childish good night you contrary little boys.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 4, 2008 08:52PM)
Here's the thing. And it's a common problem on many threads here.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done, or arguing that it isn't being done, or accusing people of being dishonest for reporting that it is being done, no one is focusing on the solution. They are all focused on the wrong thing (focused on them being "RIGHT").

Quit focusing on being right. Focus on the fact that you don't know, and that you genuinely want to know (want to learn).

Discovering the solution starts with asking yourself right questions.

Questions like:

- What do customers who pay that sort of fee, really want?

- How do I become the type of performer / business person that can deliver value to customers who are willing to pay that sort of fee?

- How can I develop the confidence to ask those type of prices on a consisent basis?

- What do I need to learn to rise into this league?

- What do I need to change in my marketing?

- What do I need to change in my performance style?

- What do I need to change in my thinking?

- How can I find those types of customers?

- How do I need to change myself to do this?

- Who do I need to meet and build a relationship with, to get some mentorship?

Etc.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 4, 2008 09:16PM)
Actually I believe that the problem with MOST threads here is that at least some of the participants live in fantasy land. They BS their way through threads spouting slogans and BS, but people know them for what they are,and still others fall for the BS as gospel. Problem is some actually try to have real world discussions with them and it is not possible.

I have chosen to stay out of them when I see them developing.

(Mind you I speak of nobody on this thread or of this thread in spacific, but it is a problem here and it gets worse. A virtual measuring contest with nothing ever measured but words)

For me I am a guy who shows up at work, does a good enough job to be asked back and makes enough to have money left over to buy a new deck of cards every once in a while.

I am SO sick of the posing.
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (May 4, 2008 10:36PM)
Danny wrote:
For me I am a guy who shows up at work, does a good enough job to be asked back and makes enough to have money left over to buy a new deck of cards every once in a while.


But don't you want more than an extra deck of cards? Maybe that is why you don't see the possibilities?
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (May 4, 2008 11:49PM)
When it comes to having the nerve to raise fees, I agree with Eric Anderson who lectured here a few months ago.

You can't do a big jump in fee on old customers, but with new customers, you can have a new "starting" fee.

It does take some nerve, and you will lose some shows over higher fees, but since I started doing that, I now make way more than before while working less.

I am not in the big leagues as it were, but am making more now than I have before. I am learning to be comfortable with the idea that YES - I AM worth what I am charging.

As for the Millianaire Magician and the like - I have learned as a lot of others have that a lot of what a magician SAYS he makes is a) hype b) BS or c) posing or d) all of the above.
Message: Posted by: NJJ (May 5, 2008 01:05AM)
I try to give magicians the benefit of the doubt with this stuff but it is just so hard to seperate the BS from the facts.

A few recent cases of magician's BS that annoyed me include:

1) Magician telling me he get's watches with the watch steal every single time regardless of the watch.

2) Magician telling me he had raised his kid's party price by $100 when he hadn't. I was defending him to other magicians who accused him of being too cheap and ended up looking like a jerk.

3) Magicians who are 'full time' but also work retail etc. to pay the bills.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (May 5, 2008 06:55AM)
Danny is right Tricky Business has been taken over by magicians who live in fantasy land. I have had all the silly slogans I can take. I will not post here any more.
Message: Posted by: Michael Messing (May 5, 2008 08:08AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 02:05, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote:
A few recent cases of magician's BS that annoyed me include:

3) Magicians who are 'full time' but also work retail etc. to pay the bills.
[/quote]

So, Nicholas, where do you draw the line at full time? (I'm just curious, not annoyed.) I make about 85% of my income in magic and I consider myself full time. I work part time (about 10 or 11 hours per week) for my best friend at his insurance office. He lets me come and go as I please and just asks that I give as much notice as possible if my schedule changes. The insurance job is handy when there are slow downs in performing. In addition, I do photography on the side because I love it - I've been into photography nearly as long as magic. (35 years in magic and 31 in photography.) I use the money to buy more photo gear.

I consider myself full time because magic is what feeds my family and pays my bills. In addition, I don't turn down any shows because of my insurance job. If I book a show when I'm scheduled to work at the insurance office, I call in and let them know I won't be available. (I can't book over a photo session, of course, or I would ruin my reputation there.)

So, do you consider me part time or full time?

Michael
Message: Posted by: chris mcbrien (May 5, 2008 08:29AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 07:55, Al Angello wrote:
Danny is right Tricky Business has been taken over by magicians who live in fantasy land. I have had all the silly slogans I can take. I will not post here any more.
[/quote]

I feel for Al, I really do! The fact is is that there are too many who "hype" not only to their prospective clients (or to those they pretend to have) but also hype here as well...when talking nuts and bolts would be a lot more proactive. I think Danny had it absolutely correct with his post.
As a full-timer (and entertainment is my ONLY job, pays for a family of four, two cars and a mortgage)there are some things I will share, and some things I won't. However, I won't "BS" people here with crap that "t'aint true" and I'll give what facts I feel comfortable sharing. This business can be tough enough and having some honest commentary and facts on the "inside" of the business is what's needed to help others and ourselves.
And now, back to my marketing this morning....see, look, a "nuts and bolts" fact. Nope, not laying on the lounger "drinking my breakfast" looking at the Hollywood sign...I'm doing mailers....
Message: Posted by: Chad C. (May 5, 2008 08:59AM)
I also, am doing mailings this morning - fun stuff! Hi Michael, I am similar to you as well. I pastor a small church (I am there Wed nights and Sundays) but it is considered "part-time" and my "full-time" job is my magic -which brings in 90% of my income. So I consider myself full-time with magic. Of course, being in the ministry is always "full-time" even when you are part-time!

Well, back to mailings!
Chad
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (May 5, 2008 09:18AM)
Did my mailings about a week or so ago! So I think I will take Chris Mcbrien up for his drink offer! YUMMY

:)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 5, 2008 09:41AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-04 23:36, magicofCurtis wrote:
Danny wrote:
For me I am a guy who shows up at work, does a good enough job to be asked back and makes enough to have money left over to buy a new deck of cards every once in a while.


But don't you want more than an extra deck of cards? Maybe that is why you don't see the possibilities?
[/quote]

Maybe you don't understand humility and sarcasam combined together. Thanks for helping me make my point though.
Message: Posted by: Mr Amazeo (May 5, 2008 03:45PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-04 21:52, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Discovering the solution starts with asking yourself right questions.

Questions like:

- What do customers who pay that sort of fee, really want?

- How do I become the type of performer / business person that can deliver value to customers who are willing to pay that sort of fee?

- How can I develop the confidence to ask those type of prices on a consisent basis?

- What do I need to learn to rise into this league?

- What do I need to change in my marketing?

- What do I need to change in my performance style?

- What do I need to change in my thinking?

- How can I find those types of customers?

- How do I need to change myself to do this?

- Who do I need to meet and build a relationship with, to get some mentorship?

Etc.

- Donald
[/quote]

What a breath of fresh air! This is exactly right. Add in something about finding a niche and exploting it and you will make that kind of money for a show (but I'm still not sure about those walk-around rates).

The money is out there. A lot of companies create budgets for this types of things. You just have a quality show that suits a particular need. There are companies that want the $750 show and there are companies that want the $5K show. I sometimes can't believe what they spend money on - a friend of mine just got back from a 4 day cruise for a company that took 80 of their employees on a Carnival Cruise in the Bahama's. His contract was to do two 1 hour walk-around gigs during the trip. He got paid for his time and expenses plus he got the cruise. I'm still p***ed at him. But there's a prime example of they didn't blink at the contractual rate. (Hard to say if it will ever happen again, but it's one for the scrapbook)

And the really nice thing is that once you're out there filling the niche and people start to get to know you, you get a lot of work with less marketing effort.
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 5, 2008 05:01PM)
WOW! I said that some would not agree, but holy cow!

Like I said... It's a mindset thing.

Hey, no one is taking away “you right to do as well or ‘not’ so well as each would like to... it’s totally up to YOU” as it has been insisted…. (or what-ever each are doing) The fact remains; whether others "believe" that success truly IS going on out there or not, “IT IS”.

Believe, don't believe; doesn’t much change the lives of any of us who ARE, in fact getting real results...

On The Other Hand; it COULD very well DOES matter (and is detrimental) to those who are NOT getting the results they say they want! (and SHOULD get as far as I’m concerned…) but sadly, are NOT getting is not a good thing! To ‘continue to ignore or dismiss the success that some ARE, in fact getting’ is NOT good for any of us.

Do we wish others would “get it”?

OF COURSE WE DO! We WANT You To Be As Successful As You Want To Be!

I am NOT here to change anyone’s mind… just sharing what works. Some belive it and others do not… too bad.

I guess I will reiterate:
= A) What real PRIZE do others win for believing in the worst possible scenario?
= B) WHY would anyone insist on believing the worst that life has to offer?
= C) What value is there in forcing a “lack” perspective on our industry?

Hey… believe, don’t believe, it’s NOT going to change what IS working for those who understand what some of us are getting at!

If I (and some of us here) desperately want amazing and phenomenal success for you is somehow maddenig or like living in some kind of 'fairy land', (Though I don't understand it...) then count me IN!

I wish that all who want to and are willing to do what it takes to have success win their dreams, desires and outcomes… I know that I have no matter if you “like me” or the things I type here to help or not. (Again, a bit confused about all the opposition to wanting your success!)

I am at your service and in HIS Service,
Deano (Really want success for YOU too!) in Reno
<><
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (May 5, 2008 05:16PM)
Magic is a lot like fishing. Some like to add a few inches to the catch. :)

Richard, to answer your question, is that the norm? While it may be normal for some, I don’t think it’s average for most. Sometimes I think the majority of magician’s fish for whatever they can catch. They simply don’t have the gear, the knowledge, or the patience to constantly go for the big one. On the other hand, some do use the right bait and gear designed especially for certain fish and they do catch the big ones often. Even if you allow for the extra inches, it’s still way above the average.

I have to agree with Dean, it’s a mindset thing more than anything.

My son, an adult, lives in a different state than I do and a couple of weeks ago he took his car to a shop for a repair. Later when he called me I asked, “why in the world did you pay six hundred dollars to get it fixed?” (Sounded more like a hundred dollar job to me.) He replied, “well dad, that’s what they charge.” He also reminded me that times have changed in the repair business, you might say they charge what they want to and there’s not much you can do about it except pay it. Out of curiosity I called around and found out that it wasn’t that bad of a deal after all. I realized my mindset about car parts hadn’t changed in twenty years.

Donald does make a good point about asking the right questions. But let me add, not only is it important to ask, it’s important to listen to the answer. Not listening can hurt.

Reminds me of this: A little old lady answered a knock on the door one day, only to be confronted by a well-dressed young man carrying a vacuum cleaner.

“Good morning,” said the young man. “If I could take a couple of minutes of your time, I would like to demonstrate the very latest in high-powered vacuum cleaners.”

“Go away,” said the old lady. “I haven't got any money, I'm broke.” As she proceeded to close the door, the young man wedged his foot in the door and pushed it wide open.

“Don't be too hasty,' he said. “Not until you have at least seen my demonstration.” And with that, he emptied a bucket of horse manure on to her hallway carpet.

“If this vacuum cleaner does not remove all traces of this horse manure from your carpet, Madam, I will personally eat the remainder.” The old lady stepped back and said, “Well I hope you've got a good appetite, because they cut off my electricity this morning.”

Tom
Message: Posted by: bubbleburst2004 (May 5, 2008 05:50PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 07:55, Al Angello wrote:
I will not post here any more.
[/quote]

Good.

Just because your self belief makes you feel you are worth less than the coffee and cookies served after the show, doesn't mean you should limit the ambitions of others.

I'm frankly sick of the people who just because THEY can't (or don't believe they can) get 2-3 K for a 30 minute show, don't believe Anyone can consistently get that amount and harp on about the people who can.

bb
Message: Posted by: todsky (May 5, 2008 06:24PM)
I believe if you're focused exclusively on making more money doing what you do, you will make more money. I also believe if you're focused exclusively on making more money, you will miss out on the finer things of life, which have nothing whatsoever to do with money.

In your service and in HER service,

Todsky the Wonder Money Motivational Magic Coach!
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 5, 2008 07:24PM)
…interesting.

How is that “Magician’s Helping Magician’s”?

Sad.
Message: Posted by: ralphwaldoemerson (May 5, 2008 08:39PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 20:24, TheDean wrote:
…interesting.

How is that “Magician’s Helping Magician’s”?

[/quote]

Which post are you referring to?
Message: Posted by: chris mcbrien (May 6, 2008 09:29AM)
Deano,
I'm also curious, but I'm not asking because I want to argue. I think I just appreciate people being really honest on this board so the help is sincere and "down to earth". I get frustrated when people hype to other entertainers. It's a necessary evil in marketing that I have a healthy respect for, but it's not necessary in the company of peers..my humble opinion only.
Best,
Chris
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 6, 2008 09:37AM)
Don't forget, Dean, in Todsky's signature, "...in HER service..." he might have been referring to The Queen. After all, he is a Canadian. Also, he might be one of her secret agents. :)

Todsky, pursuing a healthy income doesn't have to come at the expense of other great things in life. It doesn't have to be "either or". It can be "and". You can have your cake and eat it, too.

- Donald

P.S. Again, I don't claim that I personally earn that type of money from a single appearance. I choose to work different markets, ask for what I believe I am worth, I haven't worked up to the next level in fee yet, have limiting beliefs and actions, etc. However, I do know of people who get this type of money for a single show. (Also, it isn't too likely that they hang out on the Café on a regular basis.)

P.P.S. I think that Jim Snack talks about different levels of pricing / growth in his Success-In-Magic course.
Message: Posted by: et (May 6, 2008 12:56PM)
Magicians never commend this rate, but big speakers are often paid 100K to speak for an hour. Medium sized speakers easily commend thousands of dollars per hour, and musicians commend far more than that.

What makes magicians make so much less? Supply vs. Demand? Us cheating ourselves and pricing ourselves too low across the board? Limited market?

For performers thousands of dollars per hour should be a fairly easy rate to receive, but magicians rarely are capable of it. I better start working...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 6, 2008 01:26PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 18:01, TheDean wrote:

I guess I will reiterate:
= A) What real PRIZE do others win for believing in the worst possible scenario?
= B) WHY would anyone insist on believing the worst that life has to offer?
= C) What value is there in forcing a “lack” perspective on our industry?

[/quote]

Dean look at it another way for just a second. What is the upside of always looking at the best possible scenario? What value does it have looking always to the upside, to the point where it is a fantasy and not life as we know it?

I am not taking a position on whether or not anyone gets anything, I am saying that when all people do is look at what "could be" they often miss what IS. THAT is just as bad if not worse.

Then let me ask what upside is there to flat out misrepresentation on the internet about things? Then others rely on this less than valuable information, and who does this help?

How about being grounded in reality, and not slogans and BS?
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 6, 2008 02:10PM)
See here is the thing Danny, (And you know I like an respect you…)

I have found (so it is NOT 'guesswork') based on years of evidence and results that those who DO in fact “believe, get, understand even think it is possible” always get more and better results that all those who ‘believe, get, understand even think that it's NOT’!

Proven fact.

Think about it for a second:
WHY would anybody really ‘extend themselves’, ‘truly go for’, or put themselves ‘out there’, take massive action if they KNOW that they will fail??? (Whether it’s true or not, by the way!)

What is so hard to understand? If you want to talk about a 'fantasy land', now we have something to talk about brother. Denial is the most destructive form of fantasy land.

Does EVERYONE become a “massive and amazing success” JUST because they 'believe' they can?

NOPE! - - BUT “when you DO, in fact believe” AND take the ‘believable action required’, it is PROVEN to HELP in the over-all success getting process!

So yeah, the question stands:
“WHY would anyone want to stunt their success potential when all you have to do is change you mind and take the requisite action!?!?”

As I said... (over and over again) each are 110% (Hehehehe) welcome YOUR-OWN belief and results accordingly. Likely, (as evidenced here) you will not 'believe me' either, and that is fine. - - It is unfortunate from my perspective as one who CARES about your success, but it still is ok I guess, because "It Is A Mindset Thing" in large part and it’s NOT my job to change your mind.

How is that there is soooooo much opposition to becoming more successful?? It’s life… SW, SW, SW…N!

I am taking a break now…

I am at your service and In HIS Service,
Deano (CARES! Like, Believe, Attack It Or Not!) In Reno
><>

PS
It is "life as YOU know it... not as 'WE' know it."

And isn't that the point …onward.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 6, 2008 02:38PM)
Dean your right. I will say it again your right.

BUT the positive mindset, does NOT explain not living in reality now does it?

I am not a negative person at all. I am a very realistic one though. So not living in reality in EITHER case is harmfull is my point.

Also when guys live above the rim, and are constantly talking obvious nonsense, who does this help? Who is helped by the exagerations Nicholas pointed out? People rely on information they read and then are harmed by it.

I am not saying any level of success is not possible through hard work and dedication. I am not saying don't look for ways to do it, or to be negative. BUT also to be constantly positive, when the situation does not call for it, DOES HARM THE CAUSE. It can make you put money in places it absolutly does NOT belong and will not help.

I guess I am getting more at how about we hang out in reality, with positive message for sure, but reality in the end?
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 6, 2008 02:48PM)
I know your post was to Dean, but I have a question.

I don't get what you are trying to say, Danny. I'm hoping you can clarify.

Are you implying that just because I know of people who are well paid (rewarded) for their shows, I'm not grounded in reality for being aware of that fact?

And others who know of people who are well paid (or who do it themselves) for their shows, are not grounded in reality?

I think it is great knowing that some performers do this. It makes me strive to become more and grow. It makes me want to seek out mentors. It makes me examine myself and my business.

You can be content where you are, and also strive for more. They don't have to be exclusive of one another.

Remember, all that was asked at the beginning of this thread was basically, "Is it possible for some performers to get that kind of money?" or "Is it possible that some customers pay that kind of money?"

Did you read a different question?

No one ever said it was the majority of performers, or the majority of customers.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Mr Amazeo (May 6, 2008 03:28PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-06 15:48, Donald Dunphy wrote:
"Is it possible for some performers to get that kind of money?" or "Is it possible that some customers pay that kind of money?"

- Donald
[/quote]

The answer is 'yes' if you are talking about corporate clients. And no, I'm not posing and I am not living in LA-LA land. It can be done. Find a market and start working it.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 6, 2008 03:43PM)
Donald you really have to strive to miss my point.

But here goes. Have I said ANYONE on this thread does this? Well no actually I said I am speaking of nobody in particular.

I am saying that not living in reality, posing on the internet and just talking nonsense, does more to harm everyone, than to help them. Pretty clear really.

I NEVER said anyone who knows people who make large amounts of money or makes it themselvs, or anything, is not in reality did I?

Are you telling me every claim you have read on this board has been 100% true? And if that answer is no, then who are they helping? Get the point?

I am saying that more and more the posts drift to fantasy land.
Message: Posted by: rtgreen (May 6, 2008 04:14PM)
Just to chime in as the original poster, my question was prompted by Mr. Charach saying he typically works two or three shows a day during the Christmas season for $2,500 per 30 minutes strolling or 60 minutes stage. In fact he says he typically grosses about $200,000 for the month of December alone.

I don't doubt he has made $2,500 for a show. In fact, I could believe has has grossed $200K in a single month - but to say that is his typical income seemed to me extravegant. If he makes half of that in a normal month, for example, that would mean he grosses about $1.3 million per year - TYPICALLY.

With TV specials, land development deals, mechandise sales, and over 400 sold out theater shows around the world at ticket prices around $40-$100 per seat, David Copperfield earns about $50-$60 million in a good year. I believe he out earns most if not all other magic stage acts.

Granted, there is a large gap between $1.3 million and $50 million, but there seems to be a bigger gap between arguably the world's most famous magician with the most state of the art illusion show selling out large auditoriums and a relatively unknown magician (at least outside of the magic community) working corporate events out of a small office.

To put things in perspective, what would be a good guess as to Mac King's income from having a popular show in his own showroom in Vegas? I'm sure it isn't $50 or $60 million and I would be surprised if it were even over $1 or $2 million. Though I really don't know what he makes.

So, what is the problem with goal setting and positive thinking when thinking of my show? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I love to think positively about all aspects of my magic and life in general. I think there is very high value in setting high goals and working faithfully to achieve them. After all, if you shoot for the moon you may just get close, but if you shoot for the stars, you'll most likely pass the moon on the way.

However, if I were going to someone for a business loan and presented them with a business plan, I'm sure my chances of getting that loan would be far better if the bussiness plan was "realistic" in terms of what I earn here and now and not what I want to earn in my goals. And that is where the optimistic thinking starts to be a negative. If we are truly going to be Magicians Helping Magicians there is definitely a place for encouraging and positive input. However, when I go to my wife and kids and say I want to pursue this business of magic, it carries no practical weight to say with hard work and a good show our income will increase to $1.3 million. Yes, it can be done, but it would be irresponsible to tell my wife, my kids, and my business associates that that is what they should expect in a typical year. I know a lot of salesmen who claim that the sky is the limit when it comes to their income, but I also know these guys are trying as hard as everyone else to put away enough money to retire on with their actual income at around $50,000 to $100,000 a year.

Thanks,
Richard
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 6, 2008 05:01PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-06 16:43, Dannydoyle wrote:
Donald you really have to strive to miss my point.

But here goes. Have I said ANYONE on this thread does this? Well no actually I said I am speaking of nobody in particular.

I am saying that not living in reality, posing on the internet and just talking nonsense, does more to harm everyone, than to help them. Pretty clear really.

I NEVER said anyone who knows people who make large amounts of money or makes it themselvs, or anything, is not in reality did I?

Are you telling me every claim you have read on this board has been 100% true? And if that answer is no, then who are they helping? Get the point?

I am saying that more and more the posts drift to fantasy land.
[/quote]

So, Danny, I don't get why the mention of "fantasy land" posts (people being dishonest, to lead people astray or to boost their own ego) got brought up on this thread, and is being focused on. I think someone else brought up the topic before you did. You also said that you didn't indicate that anyone on this thread was behaving that way. Does it have anything to do with the money that people really ask for their show?

Again, just trying to understand what you are saying (and not trying to put words into your mouth). That's why I keep asking for clarification.

- Donald

P.S. I agree, Richard, that some incomes are not typical. If you go to marketing websites, they have earnings disclaimers. It all depends on the individual. If everyone could earn tons of cash easily (and ethically), I'm sure we all would be.
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 6, 2008 06:13PM)
Richard,

Well-Spoke, well balanced… thank you!

Is $2,500 the “NORM” in magic… I don’t think so either. And I am NOT sure that Randy suggested such a thing either at least in the books of his I read I also have most all of his products and I could (with out having to re-read every word there in) see him say that is may be HIS norm, but likely not “THE” norm in all of magic even is we take into consideration than the largest bisection of our industry is still the family performer which is ‘mostly’ no where near that kind of fee…

Again, with-out re-reading every single word he has written an the context with witch it resides, I can’t PROVE that he did or did-not say such a thing. Maybe YOU can help by giving us the specific location of the claim you site?

But, by n’ large I agree with your over-all, balanced prospective offered in this last post.

Thank You.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Danny,

[quote]Dean your right. I will say it again your right.

BUT the positive mindset, does NOT explain not living in reality now does it?[/quote]

I guess THAT is “your reality”. Notice very clearly that I suggested that any “bliss-out” and their life would all of a sudden be successful. You are making leaps and false assumptions based on “your own” belief system.

I am talking about “balance”. Well balanced lives and mindset! Clearly there are those who INSIST that business is drying up or has even already dried-up… many of us here site experience otherwise, even in many of the SAME geographic regions… WHO is RIGHT?

BOTH! (For ‘each’ of them and their own lives.)

We are NOT disputing that.

[quote]I am not a negative person at all. I am a very realistic one though. So not living in reality in EITHER case is harmfull is my point.[/quote]

I have NEVER suggested anything to the contrary! YOU and a few others, on the other hand have all but called us liars who live in some “fantasy-land” of your design all because we ARE in fact getting work???

How is THAT a ‘reality’ based perspective?


[quote]Also when guys live above the rim, and are constantly talking obvious nonsense, who does this help?[/quote]

What ‘obvious nonsense’? That fact that in the face of those who are NOT getting results in business SOME Truly ARE? - - Is THAT the nonsense you are eluding to?

Not ‘nonsense’ at all…

I agree whole heartedly that SOME will always ‘thrive’ (as is proven here) while other struggle to ‘survive’. (which is ALSO proven here!) THAT, as I see it is a simple fact of life that is once again born-out right HERE in this very discussion, BUT it doesn’t have to be that ALL that are indeed struggling need continue to do so. THAT is an individual choice.

[quote]Who is helped by the exagerations Nicholas pointed out?[/quote]

What does what Nicolas posted have to do with “our attitudes” and respectively our SUCCESS accordingly???

He said that ”HE” was frustrated with other HE "cought in a lie" and pointed it out… fine, but to insist that ALL, or even MOST who share our success here, or that have a differing view are all of a sudden, are "automatically ling, fabricating untruths or extreme" in any way is patently un-provable & irrelevant to the subject and all we can deal with, in ‘reality’! (That thing you insist YOU have corner on the market on) I don't see that as "ralistic" at all brother.

It would be best for all of us if we stay on track here…

[quote]People rely on information they read and then are harmed by it.[/quote]

SEE? Because YOU ‘insist’ that we are ‘harmful’ doesn’t make it so! That is YOUR particular “belief system” at work! How about considering that many here have really “HELPED” by this thread and discussion (and others) depending on their individual perspective may not be as much... oh well. it is what it is.

I think THAT is a much more balanced perspective and ‘reality’, isn’t it?

Certainly you (and some others) are working on the skewed assertion/assumption that some of us are lying or making stuff up. “IF” that were the case (ON BOTH ENDS OF THE DISCUSSION) then I might agree that untested lies are of little or no REAL value, but WHO is telling the truth here?

OF COURSE patient lies are of little or no value anyone as, by definition, it is false or incomplete, maybe even incorrect information, so YES that is no good for anyone…

Is anyone here see this as obvious??? Like “No-Duh-101” isn’t it? Of Course lies are no good, BUT then the question becomes WHO is lying? And WHO is the final arbiter of truth?

YOU? (ANY of us here??? Accept where PROVEN!) - - I don’t think so.

It certainly ain’t ME, but I have never suggested that I am the “keeper of the truth”. Never in a million years would is suggest such a thing and anyone who would try is NOT, n fact, dealing in “REALITY”! - - Right?

[quote] I am not saying any level of success is not possible through hard work and dedication.[/quote]

I AM saying that more success is possible when we apply hard work and dedication! I would also ADD that a productive, success mindset is very useful because it has been proven that, in fact, “WE DO GET MORE OF WHAT WE ARE WILLING TO BELIEVE WE ARE CAPABLE OF” as long as they don’t sit-around blessing out WAITING for the phone to ring!

Again, all together we all say “DUH!”

[quote]I am not saying don't look for ways to do it, or to be negative. BUT also to be constantly positive, when the situation does not call for it, DOES HARM THE CAUSE. [/quote]

WHAT??? Who EVER suggested that “anyone” should do “anything” when the situation does not call for it???? Which on of your ‘realities’ is THAT coming out of??? Com ON!

All myself on most others have said are “in perspective and balance”. WHERE are you getting theses patently false assumptions… ( rhetorical question that proven MY POINT…) “Your own “BELIEF SYSTEM”. That’s where!

Is THAT the “reality” you insist we ALL subscribe to??? Really??? No Thank You, and as I have always said, YOU are 110% welcome to it, just don’t try and FORCE “me” or anyone else here who believes and behaves differently that YOUR’S is the ONLY truth or ‘reality’… it is NOT!

[quote]I guess I am getting more at how about we hang out in reality, with positive message for sure, but reality in the end?[/quote]

Like DUH! That is all I (we) have said.

Okey Dokey… I’m out now. Bu-By, move it along now! (Hehehehehehe)

I am at your service and in HIS Service,
Deano (not a fan of mind-games & semantics) in Reno
<><
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 6, 2008 09:49PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-04 22:16, Dannydoyle wrote:

(Mind you I speak of nobody on this thread or of this thread in spacific, but it is a problem here and it gets worse. A virtual measuring contest with nothing ever measured but words)



[/quote]

Deano did you miss the above quote from me?

I know you comprehend well, and I am shocked you think I am attacking you when I SPACIFICALLY SAID I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE ON THIS THREAD! Donald same goes for you.

Why do you need clarification when it sits right in front of you?

I don't know why you guys think you are being singled out or attacked. Dean, you have always backed up what you said. No biggie. Donald I don't know you but again I refer you to the above quote.

The question is why you guys are so defensive about this? Show me where I singled you guys out and called you LIARS please. I don't believe I did that and the above quote simple makes it not true.

Please put the fur down and the claws away guys. I am not speaking about either of you as I stated earlier. Can we let it go?
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 7, 2008 12:12AM)
Again Danny... as already stated; over and over again (Ho Hum...) and yet it seams that hallucinations abound! (Your stuff in much more potent than mine apparently! – Hehehehehe!)

Brother, no one is 'attacking' you least of all me. All I did was respond to your post. (Even in context to be safe, oh well) How is THAT "attacking"?

Obviously again, it’s that funny 'mindset' thing where false accretions and assumptions seam to reign instead of the real facts offered. - - Absolutely no flying fur, or claws anywhere in site on this end of the keyboard to be sure.

Differing point of view, experience and results having to do with the subject at hand, maybe… nothing more. Not sure how THAT constitutes “attacking”.

I guess THAT is part of the communication challenge with “TYPING” alone, when the ‘unsaid’ gets stated as some kind of fact. - - Fact it is not. Fiction it has become.

I am truly sorry I have tried my best to HELP and somehow failed.

I am on to the next discussion now. Thank You.

I am, as always, at your service and In HIS Service,
Deano in Reno
<><
Message: Posted by: NJJ (May 7, 2008 12:25AM)
Micheal - I have no problems with people who work part time or have other jobs. There is no correlation between quality of the show and other work you might have. I am referring to people who LIE about being full time when really, they require extra money from another job.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 7, 2008 01:15AM)
Hi Danny -

No claws, and I'm not upset.

I am clear now (and I was clear a few posts ago) that you are not talking about people on this thread.

I'm just wondering why it is one of the focal points of discussion, when we all seem to agree that no one here is exaggerating (on this thread), and we all seem to agree that exaggerating is not a good thing to do?

Is it just because it bothers you, and this seemed like a good thread to mention it on (and someone else had brought it up first)? Or is there more to it?

Again, we're cool. I'm just trying to understand the relevance of that sub-topic.

- Donald :)

P.S. The comments like "...How about being grounded in reality, and not slogans and BS?..." could have been interpreted as a bit of a jab at certain people who use slogans and quotes sometimes in their posts.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 7, 2008 08:31AM)
Project much?
Message: Posted by: Kevin Ridgeway (May 7, 2008 09:26AM)
Bottom line....as far as what I believe and what I think Danny might be trying to say is this:

There are people on this forum who exaggerate, inflate, lie, etc about the price they get for shows, the amount of shows they do, etc. Some of them have even been 'busted' right here in this forum. Now just having people outright lie is bad, BUT as I believe Dean is trying to say....we shouldn't be focused on that and just focus on our own success. TRUE...very true.

HOWEVER, when someone is selling a system, program, for bettering your life, success course, make more money with magic, etc ...and they inflate, exaggerate, lie, etc in order to position themselves in the marketing to magicians market...well that is quite deceitful. So can someone purchase this person's course and make it work for them, even though they lied in order to sell it?...sure it is possible. But the end doesn't justify the means.

Let's get back to truth in advertising.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 7, 2008 10:30AM)
Great post, Kevin.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 7, 2008 11:42AM)
Yeppers...

= Lying is bad… duh.
= Assuming everyone is lying is bad… duh.

How about the facts and focusing on what works? I say 'duh', not everyone agrees. (Which is fine.)

Good stuff Kevin.
Message: Posted by: RobertBloor (May 7, 2008 01:54PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-07 12:42, TheDean wrote:
Yeppers...

= Lying is bad… duh.
= Assuming everyone is lying is bad… duh.

How about the facts and focusing on what works? I say 'duh', not everyone agrees. (Which is fine.)

Good stuff Kevin.
[/quote]

For some reason this thread is starting to make me chuckle a little. Reminds me of Seasame Street, "One of these things is not like the other."

Robert
Message: Posted by: TheDean (May 7, 2008 02:33PM)
This thread brought to you by the letter AB&C and the Numbers 12&3...
Message: Posted by: Mr Amazeo (May 7, 2008 05:24PM)
Group hug
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (May 11, 2008 12:55PM)
Getting back to the subject of prices Randy charges (or others for that matter) for courses etc etc.

If I may be permitted to adapt an old saying, but it seems in magic, as in many other fields, "Those that can - DO, those that can't, sell overpriced courses."
Message: Posted by: martin king (May 12, 2008 07:45AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-11 13:55, Neale Bacon wrote:
Getting back to the subject of prices Randy charges (or others for that matter) for courses etc etc.

If I may be permitted to adapt an old saying, but it seems in magic, as in many other fields, "Those that can - DO, those that can't, sell overpriced courses."
[/quote]

LOL (Damn, and I was hoping of writing and selling my very own course very soon...been busted before I even put pen to paper!)
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 13, 2008 12:49PM)
My experience with magic info product marketers, is that most are speaking from their own real-world experience. There are a few exceptions, but I don't think (nor assume) it's the norm.

I also give the same benefit of the doubt to those who post here with advice, that they are speaking from their own real-world experience.

Here's a great question: How do YOU decide who you trust, and who you don't?

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 13, 2008 02:50PM)
In my experience having to give someone the "benifit of the doubt" is already a red flag.
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (May 13, 2008 03:51PM)
Donald -
Today, almost everyone has some sort of trail if they are working. Could be articles in newsletters, mentions in meeting notes, calendar listings, reviews, schedules, client web sites, etc.

If they are selling a course, you should be able to find a substantial trail of performances in that market using search engines and well chosen search terms. If you can't, I'd question it. Even the most guarded can't avoid all mention, especially for high profile public-oriented markets.

If all that comes up in the first ten pages of a search are marketing sites that hype their courses - red flag... my opinion.
Tom

BTW - I am not saying it is okay to investigate other performers! I am saying it is common sense to protect yourself by investigating a claimed expert status.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 13, 2008 04:04PM)
Hi Tom -

Thanks for your thoughts. And I agree, success leaves a trail.

My problem is more with the double-standard.

The double-standard I speak of, is knocking down those who sell info products (as a whole group in general terms... mostly without even buying any of the products they are quick to doubt), yet expecting themselves to be taken as authorities / experts in their free advice they give out on the forums.

I guess the amount of cynicism turns me off.

- Donald

P.S. I also don't go for politicians that bad-mouth the competition.
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (May 13, 2008 04:26PM)
Free or paid - if someone wants you to follow their advice, never do so blindly.
Message: Posted by: LVMagicAL (May 13, 2008 04:53PM)
I have an uncle in New York City. His name is Morty and he owns a coffee shop.

One day I visited uncle Morty's coffee shop. On the wall hung a menu, listing "Coffee - $1,000,000 per cup"

I said: "Uncle Morty.....at $1,000,000 per cup, you can't expect to sell too many cups of coffee."

Uncle Morty replied: "At $1,000,000 per cup, I only have to sell one to have a really good day!"
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 13, 2008 06:26PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-13 17:04, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Hi Tom -

Thanks for your thoughts. And I agree, success leaves a trail.

My problem is more with the double-standard.

The double-standard I speak of, is knocking down those who sell info products (as a whole group in general terms... mostly without even buying any of the products they are quick to doubt), yet expecting themselves to be taken as authorities / experts in their free advice they give out on the forums.

I guess the amount of cynicism turns me off.

- Donald

P.S. I also don't go for politicians that bad-mouth the competition.
[/quote]

Donald you really do project a LOT buddy.

So now every product must be bought? Nice marketing, "You can't tell me my idea is bad unless you buy it first". Nice. LOL.

I think the "prevailing thought" which you choose to call cynical by the way, is that if a guy is SO huge with success, how does he have the time, energy and need to put out a course for thousands of dollars? (those who can't do, teach, is what was hinted at earlier by another)

I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying it was just said earlier on the thread and it seems as if a lot of people agree. Lets be honest FAR more money can be made from the show of a good performer, than from telling people how to sell a show.

You are of the other school. "Buy everything, everything has merit, no matter what the idea is". Fine, nobody begrudges you that position. You are entitled to that position, but don't call others cynical for having another.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (May 13, 2008 06:51PM)
I have never said to "buy everything", nor will I ever say that.

I am very careful about what I buy, and there are products I won't buy.

I also won't tell people to buy a product because it's got a money-back guarantee. There are products I won't buy, even if they have a money-back guarantee. I look for a good fit, before jumping in. I'm a very careful consumer, and I don't want to waste my time.

I also don't go into a transaction with the intention of taking advantage of the other person. So I won't buy a product with the intention of returning it. Although the fact that it is backed with a satisfaction guarantee is a nice piece of sales influence, it's a very tiny piece of influence to me personally.

- Donald

P.S. What course priced at "thousands of dollars"? I'm curious. I've seen that number mentioned in a couple of posts now, by various people.
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (May 13, 2008 09:30PM)
I'm writing that one...It's called "How to make Thousands Of Dollars Selling a Magician's Marketing Course."

Anyone interested in buying a copy so I have some experience to reference? :)
Message: Posted by: impossible man (May 14, 2008 08:41PM)
Thank you to those of you who reminded me that pricing is largely a matter of knowing you are worth it. The first time I raised my rates my bookings went up. I've had some steady clients who got special rates, but they haven't booked lately, and those special deals are over. They don't even pay on time. The low end of my price scale (birthday parties) was in line for my market, but everything else was way to low, even walkaround, and I was doing a lot of charity, but that's another post (already posted).

My township has its own state-of-the-art theater which it underwrites to the tune of $250,000 per year. Then a local undertaker who likes magic brings in big names. But no matter the act I knew about, musician, or one of the most famous mentalists ever, they don't market. No one outside our community knows these big names are coming. So they sell about 100 tickets, then do a "drawing" and basically give every entry tickets, filling the other 300 seats for free!

I worked for the recreation department for a while and got to see this on the inside, and I know their other expenditures for entertainment. I raised my rates before they call again. If they don't the new clients should be paying me what I'm worth anyway. And still the new rates don't quite reflect that.
Message: Posted by: Jay Mahon (May 20, 2008 12:50AM)
So I think the conclusion is that Randy has possibly received that amount at one time or another but it certainly isn't his lowest fee to work.

Is that a safe assumption?

Jay