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Topic: Hey guys I am starting a magic group with a few guys and we would love your tips and suggestions!
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 20, 2008 09:30AM)
Hey how are you all!! I have a group of about 5 magicians and we're trying to improve. And we thought there's no better way to improve than to throw your self out there and let people criticize you! so we are going to start making videos of ourselves heading out to town and performing to random strangers! all this to get some feed back hopefully from some magicians who can help us improve our magic!

This is our first video hope to hear from some of you! I've read some great posts!

Jay

ps the link is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp_zS4ZLONo
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (May 20, 2008 01:57PM)
Production was excellent. Content was boring (to me). I also disliked that I didn't see any heads. As a person that hires other performers, I want to see you more than your tricks.

First before you do this you should let us know what your target audience is and what your goals are with this.

First off I'll say that street magic as it is termed now, is a poor example of talents in my opinion. A lot of focus seems to be on the tricks and exaggerated reactions.

If you change it to busking magic (real street magic) you'll find a lot more useful information to help you along (audience control, character development...).

Are you hoping to make money from performing for strangers on the street? Are you hoping to make it to TV? Are you hoping to do table-hopping/walk-around events?

Having said all that kinda negative stuff, I see a lot of potential in what you are doing.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 20, 2008 02:24PM)
I didn't see anything MAGICAL... just another group of guys, and there seem to be countless numbers, cutting and handling cards ala the Buck Bros.

Kinda like "playing with yourselves"... you want improvement? It's not in the moves, it's how you would relate and entertain with what you know.

As mentioned above: What are you goals?
Message: Posted by: mrunge (May 20, 2008 03:18PM)
Looks like someone wanting to be the next David B. or Chris A. to me. Lot of "knuckle busting" that looks flashy, but I see a "hit and run" magician coming. Not much in the way of true street magic.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Danny Diamond (May 20, 2008 03:40PM)
Like everyone has mentioned: what is the goal here?

If you're looking to make videos simply to share on YouTube with other young card jugglers - then you're fine where you're at.

If you are looking to perform magic and entertain paying customers, then you probably have quite a ways to go.
Message: Posted by: figpik (May 20, 2008 05:09PM)
Street magic as you're doing it, seems to be just a way of playing with "after effect" software. I like the buck's stuff but I'm sick of all that theory 11 way of thinking which is just "hey! look at me! I do a 14 packets cut and the first card remains on the top"

Sure you're skilled in that kinda stuff. But if all those so called "effect" are magic, I stop right now performing. I've done street magic for many years, I was 20. I don't pretend having done a great act. But it was an act, I was more playing whith the public than demonstrating my skills.

Oh, I didn't get that screams, (but actualy, I've never seen anybody have such an hysterical behaviour, even for magic tricks.)

So, you want feedback? You're great. But stop doing tricks. Learn to talk to people you meet, and make'em laugh. That's show business.
Message: Posted by: Chappo (May 20, 2008 07:35PM)
Much as I hate to break it you guys, this video proves indicative of the fact that you have mis-defined magic. Sure, packet cuts and flourishes are great IN MODERATION when they incorporated in a routine. But it isn't magic. Well not by my standards anyway. Yes, you certainly have an inordinate amount of talent and you certainly display prowess. BUT...

Magic isn't just in flashy presentation... it's in the scripting, routining, audience interaction and bringing yourself down (or up) to the level of interest your audience is actually portraying. I constantly talk about how I try to portray myself as 'funny magical dude' rather than 'superior-smartass- with-a-million-cuts-an-hour-that-you-can't-follow-and-is-out-to-make-an-idiot-of- everyone dude' . Each illusion is supposed to be a work of art in itself, not something you hurriedly bluster through.

Please reconsider how you will present your videos in the future, if you choose to continue your magical experience. Magic is a great thing, but to start this experience on the wrong foot would be tragic.
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 20, 2008 07:57PM)
Replying:
Hey Chappo,
thanks heaps mate for the feed back what you said really helpped me in some sense open my eyes a little and I definitely don't want to be the 'superior-smartass- with-a-million-cuts-an-hour-that-you-can't-follow-and-is-out-to-make-an-idiot-of- everyone dude' <-- great line by the way! I will definitely

hey figpik
I really appreciate you taking the time to write me the reply. thanks for the advice! I have thought a lot about what you have said too, I really want to improve my showmanship as well. I mean us guys as a group have met together countless times to practice the "Moves" but I think its time that we start practicing the patter and entertain people more. Thanks again figpik I really appreciate it!

hi Danny Diamond,
I think personally as individual magicians we all have different goals we want to achieve but together as a group I think we also need a main goal we all want to achieve. You've made a really good point I will make this point when we meet up together next. Thanks Danny!

heyy Bill Nuvo!
thanks for all that mate, I really appreciate you taking the time mate!! we didn't show any heads because we don't want anyone know know who we are yet lol but as I have mentioned before I will have to start to sit down the the group and really think what our goals are and what we want to achieve as a group.

Personal message:
Thanks everyone I really appreciate you for helping me. This video that we made is somewhat of an Intro to what we are doing. We did all those cuts to show that we are seriously about this art and we will put the time necessary into learning. but just knowing that I have many experienced magicians that are so helpful makes me feel really happy ! Thanks guys!! cant believe I got so many replies in one night! with your helpful tips and critiques I know I can become a better magician.

Thanks again everyone!
Vinh Giang
Message: Posted by: msc455magic (May 20, 2008 07:59PM)
I think these should be called flourishes instead of magic.

Just my 2 NT's,
Charles
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 20, 2008 08:15PM)
Hey msc455magic
your all getting me thinking and you are all right! these are card flourishes! haha bugger that lol We definately need to concentrate on our showmanship and dilvering tricks really well to the public. Thanks matey!

ps. any advice is good advice!
Message: Posted by: Daveandrews (May 20, 2008 08:33PM)
Sh4de - I really think you should be complimented on the way you are taking the advice that has been given. Some would not have taken it 'on the chin', so to speak, and remained as positive as you have.

All power to you and your friends.

regards,

Dave
Message: Posted by: Chappo (May 20, 2008 09:14PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-20 20:57, Sh4de wrote:
Replying:
Hey Chappo,
thanks heaps mate for the feed back what you said really helpped me in some sense open my eyes a little and I definitely don't want to be the 'superior-smartass- with-a-million-cuts-an-hour-that-you-can't-follow-and-is-out-to-make-an-idiot-of- everyone dude' <-- great line by the way! I will definitely...
[/quote]

Mate... NO problems at all. As I said, the last thing I would want to see you do is to take a large step in the wrong direction before you've even started. I am rather happy that you have taken everyone's advice on the chin (no matter how harsh or negative... I am a hypocrite :P ). Also, I didn't want to imply that you are a smartass, but that's how it may seem to come across to punters.

That being said, you may use that term as much as you want. (Just mention that it got coined in Brisbane by a Professional Idiot... and I would love you forever).

Good luck!
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 21, 2008 04:18AM)
Lol thanks guys well for me I've been thinking a lot today about how I would like to portray magic and to me I don't want people walking away and thinking "oh his hands are too quick", "it must be a trick" or "the cards were definately rigged" I really want people to think it is real and I know that it will all come down to the performance! Would you guys be able to give me some tips on this? I want people to believe the magic I perform is real. Sorry I know I'm asking a lot! I just think it is such a great opportunity to have such great magicians from all over the world to give you handy tips! wish I could give you all back something in return but I am still too new at this!

Thanks Daveandrews for the kind words I know that everyone is trying to help! so I will definately not take it the wrong way! we can only learn by our mistakes right!

and as always much appreciated everyone!
Vinh Giang
Message: Posted by: magicianinja (May 22, 2008 07:46PM)
Flourishes are cool, but they pretty much give away that you can do sleight of hand. Dave Williamson gives advice to act a little clumsy with the cards, "screw up" sometimes and you'll set the audience up for a good surprise when you finish the effect.
Message: Posted by: professorwhut (May 23, 2008 08:26AM)
Someone here on the Café once referred to these sort of card flourishes as card juggling. I do appreciate the skill required to accomplish these displays ( I certainly cannot do it). But after seeing a bazillion of these over the years, I have become rather bored with them, no matter how fantastic they really are.
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 23, 2008 12:39PM)
Hey magicianinja and professorwhut again thanks for taking the time to read this post and even better comment!

I totally agree with you Magician ninja when we use so many cuts in our routines we tend to give it away that its a trick more so than Magic. I really want to portray magic no tricks. That tip was very helpful!! Tonight when I performed in the city I did absolutely no fancy cuts and had amazing reactions! ill post our next video up soon. Thanks again mate!

yeah there does seem to be a lot of these cuts flying around the internet they call them selves XCM I think lol but I definately don't want to be that I want to be a magician not an XCM. Like I said I hope you all can help my group become better magicians! we all really appreciate your input!

Thanks all!!
Message: Posted by: professorwhut (May 23, 2008 08:48PM)
Good luck to you Sh4de.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 23, 2008 10:37PM)
Do not deliver tricks. Instead, deliver magical experiences that leave your audiences entertained. Big difference.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: lunatik (May 25, 2008 02:04AM)
Hi Shade,

Your group seems dedicated to learning the art. Ya'll have definitely been practicing. Just from viewing the clip, there are a lot of cuts. I'm sure you can do actual sleights as well. Some here didn't think the screams or yelling by the spectators to be justified. From what was shown, it didn't look like they were reacting to the cuts, but to the magic effects that you presented. Looks like they went over VERY well. Would be nice in the future to see the whole routine!! Keep up the good work and keep the great attitude in wanting to better yourself as a performer!! Awesome things are in store for you group!!
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 25, 2008 09:04AM)
Hey lunatik,
I have to say mate your comment made my day today! I seriously want to become a better magician and my group and I have worked hard. I will post another clip up soon of us performing a simple trick. Two card monte, though a simple trick we have tried to get the best possible reaction from it! I will post it as soon I as have time to edit! thanks so much for that wonderful comment! I will post complete routines up from here.

Bye!
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (May 25, 2008 01:18PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-20 10:30, Sh4de wrote:
Hey how are you all!! I have a group of about 5 magicians and we're trying to improve. And we thought there's no better way to improve than to throw your self out there and let people criticize you! so we are going to start making videos of ourselves heading out to town and performing to random strangers! all this to get some feed back hopefully from some magicians who can help us improve our magic!

This is our first video hope to hear from some of you! I've read some great posts!

Jay

ps the link is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp_zS4ZLONo
[/quote]

Hi Jay,

I thought it was excellent, top quality production and some great sleight of hand. The more you guys go out and perform your stuff the quicker you will know what works for you.

Just keep at it, I was once like you guys and I was always told "you don't need to do the clever stuff", I make my living doing the "clever stuff" and for me it was the best apprenticeship I ever did. Great presentational skills combined with excellent sleight of hand will set you apart from the crowd.

All the best,

Gary Jones.
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 25, 2008 06:33PM)
Hey Gary I just went to your site and saw all those nice pictures! you sure do know how to do the clever stuff!! I totally agree with you I think that knowing how to do these "fancy cuts" especially while doing something like a gamble routine is excellent! I really want to thank for you that comment! I wish you all the best with your business also!
Message: Posted by: Sh4de (May 29, 2008 09:03AM)
Hey don't mean to post again! but if you guys that responded to me in this post want to see our next clip is up!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IwxZewMQ0d8

Would love to hear from you guys! we are starting with very simple tricks and slowly working our way up to much harder magic. But we wanted to try and use very simple effects to get great reactions! that was our challenge haha. thanks again everyone!
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Jul 9, 2008 04:15PM)
Hi, Sh4de, if you are still monitoring this thread: I suggest you go to The Magic Café categories [go to Home, then into Enter Dining Room, and scroll down about 4 screens to the section Close up Workers, then to to subcategory "The Sidewalk Shuffle" to read about performing tricks on the street to the public. Personal development-wise, you wouldn't be out on the street as you read about in that section until you have worked routines and patter and practice for presenting tricks in an entertaining way. Then, out on the streets you get to perfect your presentation. Regards.