(Close Window)
Topic: And suddenly... I'm a hypnotist
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 28, 2008 07:25PM)
Ok so I had a bit too much to drink last night and I accepted a gig (too long a story). The only problem is it's a hypnotist stage show and I've never done one before. I've been a therapist of many years but let's face it, it's a whole new thing.
Anyway, it's last week in August so that gives me 'some'time.
If there's anyone out there who would like to give advice or even mentor me, speak now or forever hold your tongue.
And yes, I do know that the moment I hit 'submit' I'll regret it (or as you read this: did regret it)
bobser
Message: Posted by: martin king (May 28, 2008 11:34PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-28 20:25, bobser wrote:
Ok so I had a bit too much to drink last night and I accepted a gig (too long a story). The only problem is it's a hypnotist stage show and I've never done one before. I've been a therapist of many years but let's face it, it's a whole new thing.
Anyway, it's last week in August so that gives me 'some'time.
If there's anyone out there who would like to give advice or even mentor me, speak now or forever hold your tongue.
And yes, I do know that the moment I hit 'submit' I'll regret it (or as you read this: did regret it)
bobser
[/quote]

I would strongly advise you to go to http://www.stagehypnosiscenter.com and order Mr Ronnings hardbound book 'Geoff Ronnings Guide To Modern Day Stage Hypnosis.

Hope this helps, probably not.

There, you can start regretting it now!

Warm regards,

Martin
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (May 29, 2008 01:30AM)
Bobser,

Good for you for making the leap.

I'll ensure you are ready by giving you any help I can.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 29, 2008 06:21AM)
Thankyou Anthony for once again stretching the English hand of friendship across Hadrian's Dyke. Although there may be a French connection with you. That would mean the 'auld alliance' is back and in good working order. I like it! Much better than the two death threats I've been PM'd with (think it's Mindpunisher but I can't be positive).
And thank you for your advice Martin, but I want to smell the sawdust and taste the blood this time around.

bobser
Message: Posted by: mota (May 29, 2008 08:23AM)
I agree with the recommendation of Geoff Ronning's Guide To Modern Day Stage Hypnosis. I believe it is much more practical than McGill's older work (you can also get it on amazon).

Having said that you should also look at the ad in this section for the vegas stage hypnotism site (link follows in case it is easier).

So, at minimum I would suggest Ronning's book and three DVD's from http://www.vegasstagehypnosis.com/

Michael JOHNS and RICHARD NONGARD present "Stage Hypnosis Exposed"

TERRY STOKES presents "Stage Show Induction: How to Hypnotize Anyone"

RICHARD NONGARD and JOHN CERBONE present "SKITS AND BITS: Learn How to Create Astonishing Stage Hypnosis Skits and Routines"

Then go see as many stage hypnotists as you can.

Work your butt off on your pre-talk, rehearse it until you hear it in your sleep. This is a critical part of the show.

Know what skits you are going to do...rehearse the entire show. Set up a bunch of chairs, put stuffed animals or Higley zbits in them and do the show.

Do NOT do any type of age regression or anything even remotely physically dangerous.

You cannot be dumb when you do a show like this...you need all the common sense you can get. You must be honest...if you make impulsive decisions or show poor judgment you are better off canceling the show.

This isn't two card monte.
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 29, 2008 09:12AM)
Thanks for taking the time mota, and the good advice (yes I'm aware of the necessity for a great pre-talk). I think my biggest challenge is the one I would most want to do. And that is seeing stage hypnotists at work. I'm based in Scotland and aren't any guys here (that I've heard of)who I could ask to mentor me. I normally learn best by watching and copying. Next best thing of course is Audio Visuals. I actually did ask one a couple weeks ago (goes under the name of BUSBY) but he didn't seem keen. It was obvious he wanted to know what was in it for him to allow me to stand and watch. LOL.
For what it's worth I'm aware of different styles of performer. I have no challenges whatsoever with those guys who want to put people on fire, have them cry, strip naked etc: since that's up to the individual and I don't want ever to get involved insuch an argument. it serves no real purpose for me. BUT, I saw a guy (maybe some in here know him but I'd never heard of him)who looked very very polished, and he was playing to corporate people. That's my background (former national sales manager etc), and I've done loads of talks over the years. But this guy, like I said, linked it through analogy etc to hypnosis as he put out 15 or so people on stage in the middle od his presentation, asking the audience what they felt was actually happening. I thought it looked really cool. His name is 'Anthony Gale'. For me personally his presentation came across as the one I would want to emulate. D'ya think he'd come stay with me for a week if I offered him free golf and free guided walks in The Scottish Glens?
thanks again,
bobser.
Message: Posted by: Cyar (May 29, 2008 10:01AM)
On the business side (and what little I know) I learned some interesting things from Don Mottin's tapes. He has in his contract if the booker provides less than 50 people for the show, then he has the option of doing a demonstration. Another thing is to find out if and how you can promote yourself (cd's, promotional items, clinical work, etc.) as they might not appreciate this being done during the performance.

Please chime in for those of you with experience.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 29, 2008 11:23AM)
Why should experience matter? This is an internet forum after all isn't it?
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 29, 2008 01:20PM)
Yes it is Danny. BUT I know that you're a great stage hypnotist (AND very funny) so I'm seeking your advice just a tad more than Tony Blackburn's.
(Tony Blackburn is an English DJ from the 60's who wears a bad hairpiece and has never hypnotized anyone in his life).
Hope this makes sense.
bobser.
ps: I'd really love for you to allow some of the guys in here to see what you've allowed me to see!!! As promised, I've never told a soul. Sssssshhhhh
Message: Posted by: martin king (May 29, 2008 02:44PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 07:21, bobser wrote:
Thankyou Anthony for once again stretching the English hand of friendship across Hadrian's Dyke. Although there may be a French connection with you. That would mean the 'auld alliance' is back and in good working order. I like it! Much better than the two death threats I've been PM'd with (think it's Mindpunisher but I can't be positive).
And thank you for your advice Martin, but I want to smell the sawdust and taste the blood this time around.

bobser
[/quote]

See...I told you that you could start regretting it...and you did!
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (May 29, 2008 03:32PM)
[quote]
Another thing is to find out if and how you can promote yourself (cd's, promotional items, clinical work, etc.) as they might not appreciate this being done during the performance.

Please chime in for those of you with experience.
[/quote]

I appreciate we all have to earn a living but I find the blatant promotion of therapy services and weight loss CD's during a stage hypnosis act so tacky and cheap.

If you are going to do it then at least do it with some dignity, have a designated area with your products/business literature on. Make one comment about it and hang around there after the show.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 29, 2008 04:21PM)
Bobser why would I give you a death threat? You don't need one. Yes that's a leap!
Off a tall building!

Another reason why stage hypnosis should be regulated. So folks know what they are booking. Stage hypnosis more or less banned from all the Universities up here now and council run theatres. that's why theres no one around to mentor you.

Because idiots have ruined it for everyone else.

If you were taking this seriously you would seek a mentor and pay them to train you properly. Your customers deserve at least that. But no scrape some freebies off an internet forum. that's a real professional approach. I smell a new hypno attack coming on - from the media! Give it time it's bound to happen.
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 29, 2008 06:20PM)
Well the good news for you mindpushy is... once again you won't be needed this time around. Call it coincidence. So, sit back with the knowledge that I don't want or need anything you have, assuming you used to have something.
Oh, and keep brooding about how all the idiots in the world have let you down and that's why it's impossible for you to be succesful at anything anymore. Although you simply cannot understand why others with less talent than you seem to be very successful at something you simply can't get to grips with, hmmmm?
Yeah, we've all heard your story, and yes, believe me, we all agree with you, your world really is quite pathetic. Ah bless.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 29, 2008 06:38PM)
Actually Bobser I've created my own market well away from stagework.

No you should understand you've been let down before you even start. Stage hypnosis is banned from most of the decent venue's. There is also pressure in parts of scotland being put on bar owners who may lose their license if the use hypnotists. I know this from a friend who still does the odd show.

I'm not available for stage coaching if I was I would be charging for it. Which would mean you would never have access to it. Because you would never pay. However I see Anthony has stepped in offering free courses so youl be fine.

As for my story no you haven't heard what I'm up to now. The story you heard is YOUR story or anyone that wants to earn a living doing stage hypnosis. In scotland its finished. Its finished because idiots filled bars and clubs with little or no training claiming to be hypnotists.

I have no desire to do stage work never have for many years. The very few that do the odd show are beig paid much less than I was being paid 15 years ago. that's not a market I want to be part of.

And I couldn't care less go and trample hypnosis further into the ground. If the media got hold of the street attack over here - all there needs is one accident and the circus will start up again.

I feel sorry for anyone who books a hypnotist believing they are getting a skilled pro. Ahhh But they would go for the cheapest.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 29, 2008 08:03PM)
Still Bobser with that rant out of the way you couldn't do any worse than some Ive seen. So Go for it just make up a name don't give them your real name.
Message: Posted by: RSD (May 30, 2008 12:57AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 19:38, mindpunisher wrote:
Stage hypnosis is banned from most of the decent venue's. There is also pressure in parts of scotland being put on bar owners who may lose their license if the use hypnotists. I know this from a friend who still does the odd show.
[/quote]

Everytime I hear this it makes me laugh. Actually it makes me a laugh a lot. It just tells me how ignorant and uneducated the "powers that be" are. If they really took the time to understand hypnosis this wouldn't be the case. Someone should crusade to actually educate people over there so they know what they are banning. Urban legend here in Canada suggests that it was illegal, but not enforced, until one person (well know to the Café) spoke to people that could get it changed. After simple discussions, the law was amended, and I now have the right to make a living as a stage hypnotist. That being said, I always hear stories, once again - urban legends, of hypnosis going bad here in Canada. I have done some extensive research on this and I cant find anything. It seems to me, the more you regulate it, and ban it, the more problems occur.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (May 30, 2008 02:24AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 19:38, mindpunisher wrote:
However I see Anthony has stepped in offering free courses so youl be fine.
[/quote]

Just to qualify that. These free one day courses offer an Introduction to Hypnosis. They do not purport to provide full Stage Hypnosis training.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: Al Hastings (May 30, 2008 04:04AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-30 01:57, RSD wrote:
Urban legend here in Canada suggests that it was illegal, but not enforced, until one person (well know to the Café) spoke to people that could get it changed. After simple discussions, the law was amended, and I now have the right to make a living as a stage hypnotist.
[/quote]

I heard the same story. Actually, the story is touched upon briefly on M. Lewis' hypnosis videos. Rumor has it the story will be told in full in his up comming book.

-A
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 30, 2008 06:53AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-30 03:24, Anthony Jacquin wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 19:38, mindpunisher wrote:
However I see Anthony has stepped in offering free courses so youl be fine.
[/quote]

Just to qualify that. These free one day courses offer an Introduction to Hypnosis. They do not purport to provide full Stage Hypnosis training.

Anthony
[/quote]

I don't think that would bother bobser...he will fill the gaps by asking questions on a forum. I think certain journalists would have a field day if they researched some these threads and wanted to make a case out of any problems that may happen with the "next generation" of hypnotists.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 30, 2008 06:59AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-30 01:57, RSD wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 19:38, mindpunisher wrote:
Stage hypnosis is banned from most of the decent venue's. There is also pressure in parts of scotland being put on bar owners who may lose their license if the use hypnotists. I know this from a friend who still does the odd show.
[/quote]

Everytime I hear this it makes me laugh. Actually it makes me a laugh a lot. It just tells me how ignorant and uneducated the "powers that be" are. If they really took the time to understand hypnosis this wouldn't be the case. Someone should crusade to actually educate people over there so they know what they are banning. Urban legend here in Canada suggests that it was illegal, but not enforced, until one person (well know to the Café) spoke to people that could get it changed. After simple discussions, the law was amended, and I now have the right to make a living as a stage hypnotist. That being said, I always hear stories, once again - urban legends, of hypnosis going bad here in Canada. I have done some extensive research on this and I cant find anything. It seems to me, the more you regulate it, and ban it, the more problems occur.
[/quote]

RSD have you seen some of the problems we've had over here? Hypnosis isn't dangerous neither are bullets or guns. Not until they are abused.

Regulated would mean at least a certain professional standard had been maintained. And it would stop the cowboys who have ruined it over here.

We now have bans on the major universities, local run theatres and now many bars and hotels are being threatened of losing their license if they use hypnotists.

The paying public deserve better. Instead stage hypnosis has got a name for incompetency and abuse.

I left the market ages ago I have no desire to go back. Im very happy to do be going down my current path.
Message: Posted by: triadsong (May 30, 2008 07:19AM)
Uhm, something similiar happened to me. You see, I do a kid's magic show - totally platform style. Last night I got totally wasted on tequila and agreed to do a milk can escape. I don't swim well but I have ten days so....

Please, JUST SAY NO! Give this job to a professional and get work in your own field.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 30, 2008 08:35AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 16:32, Anthony Jacquin wrote:
[quote]
Another thing is to find out if and how you can promote yourself (cd's, promotional items, clinical work, etc.) as they might not appreciate this being done during the performance.

Please chime in for those of you with experience.
[/quote]

I appreciate we all have to earn a living but I find the blatant promotion of therapy services and weight loss CD's during a stage hypnosis act so tacky and cheap.

If you are going to do it then at least do it with some dignity, have a designated area with your products/business literature on. Make one comment about it and hang around there after the show.

Anthony
[/quote]

I am a fan of finding things to agree about and I agree with this. TOTALLY. Thank you for saying it Anthony.

I also am happy to hear you are not claiming to turn people into a hypnotist in one day. Bravo and sets you apart again.

I have to just chime in with one thing and it is not spacific to hypnosis. I am often amazed that guys take shows, they are not qualified to do. It is just short of bait and switch.

I would NEVER do therapy, even though HUNDREDS ask me every year. Why? I am not qualified that is why. Well when a therapist takes a show, they are not qualified. When an amateur magician who does one or 2 tricks well takes a show and they have never done one or practiced or considered one, they are not qualified. Again bait and switch.

I never know why people feel the need to do this. Fact is the dirty little secret here is the "hypnosis" part is not the largest part of the show. The things you do with them once they are in the state is what is important. THAT IS WHAT TAKES SO MUCH TIME TO LEARN.

Much like therapy. The hypnotic state is not the toughest part. That is self induced from their end anyhow. The time is spent learning WHAT TO DO AFTERWORDS. I guess that is just my position.

I am not saying anyone should or should not do anything. Just clarifying things a bit is all.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 30, 2008 08:57AM)
While I agree with everything you said above. I would also like to add that the safety and well-being of the audience is even more important. And to neglect this is just bad for everyone. We aren't doing a few tricks here we are taking risks that are not inherant in other forms of performance. It takes time to become professional from a safety point of view.

I wish Anthony well with his hypnosis school. However experience has told me "FREE" anything just attracts the wrong clients.
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 30, 2008 06:36PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 19:38, mindpunisher wrote:
Actually Bobser I've created my own market well away from stagework.
[/quote]

Well actually you did try something else since failing miserably as a hypnotist, but it looks like it's not working out too well for you since you've been seen & heard begging for gigs on Spain at aroung 40 quid a hit. And I believe you're not getting any work there either?

[quote]
Stage hypnosis is banned from most of the decent venue's. There is also pressure in parts of scotland being put on bar owners who may lose their license if the use hypnotists. I know this from a friend who still does the odd show.
[/quote]

First of all lets get it straight, you don't have any friends.
Secondly, for anyone reading this, MP doesn't know his arse from his elbow. If anyone, and I mean anyone, wants to PM me and ask for a gig, literally anywhere in Scotland, I'll set it up for you in 7 days, GUARANTEED!!!
A hypnosis training day? No probs, gimme a week and I'll give you 20 to 30 people. But he is right in as much as BAD hypnotists get a bad name and it spreads quickly. They don't get gigs and no one turns up to train with them. And everybody knows that. What was the advice he gave earlier? Ah yes, "Don't use your own name". Sad huh?

[quote]
I'm not available for stage coaching if I was I would be charging for it. Which would mean you would never have access to it. Because you would never pay. However I see Anthony has stepped in offering free courses so youl be fine.
[/quote]

So Anthony Jacquin hears that another member of The Café(me) puts his pride in his pocket and asks for help, and Anthony decides to say: "Yes, I'll give you whatever help you need, no charge."
And then there's you MP, a sad little man finding a problem with this, totally unable to understand why one man would help another without charge. And Anthony does this even though he is able to charge for his courses because he actually KNOWS what he's talking about. Y'see MP he's a pro. He doesn't have a problem finding gigs or training others. ALL the things that you simply can't do, indeed, let's be honest, have probably never done. Nobody in here knows who you are and you don't want to tell them. Tell you what, let's call you (ahem)Brian. Sounds just about right to me.

[quote]
I have no desire to do stage work never have for many years.
[/quote]

Well, we know you've been begging for gigs but haven't managed to get any. But hey, enough pain for one day, let's let that one go, you're hurting enough already.

Finally, When Anthony Jacquin said he was doing his one day training in Scotland I immediately offered to help as a way of repaying his kind offer to have me on his one day course earlier in the year in Hurst Green.
I got together with a very well known businessman who felt it only proper that Anthony, who'd be travelling over 1,000 miles to do this, should be properly re-embursed. To cut a long story short, when I telephoned Anthony to tell him there wouldn't be a problem putting at least a couple grand (sterling) in his pocket he actually refused! Now Mind punisher, or Brian, you're simply not going to able to take this on board. But this is the quality of some of the guys whom you constantly try to mock in here. Why don't you try and join in the parade instead of constantly berating everyone from the sidelines?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 30, 2008 07:58PM)
If Anthony refused to put money in his pocket then that's really his choice. I wouldn't do any training without money being involved. Anthony is also quite a young guy. 10 or more years in business might change his values.

So you equate quality with not accepting money? We just have a different value system Bobser. Years of doing work for free and trying to help others for free has taught me it isn't a smart move at least not for me. I believe eventually Anthony will come to that conclusion to.

I'm not berating anyone I am sharing my opinion which you take or leave. I am also playing around on here. I take as good as I get.

I have never begged for gigs. I have looked into the market and its not there. Unless you want to work for nothing. I don't work for nothing. I have also worked through the witch hunts and bad publicity. I am genuinely concerned that some of the things going on at the moment could lead to some serious revisits of these times.

The real pain Ive experienced is making a lot of money for business clients but not figuring away to make it for myself. Now that problem is now being solved. that's a path Ive been struggling down for a number of years. that's the path Im happy to go down and the one I want to go down. Right now I am in the middle of negotiations that if successful will be a first in the legal system in scotland.

Yes sure I was offered £40 a show in spain. About a year before that I was earning nearly £4k a show. That was a long time ago. I went over to spain to check out the hypnosis scene years ago. Apart from the money I didn't like the scene the lager louts and the way of life. £40 was the going rate at that time in Spain. I have no idea what is now but my guess its probably around £100 - £150 a show.

Sure Ild love to do stage shows again its easy money at that level or even a bit lower. But my only interest would be to make money. I have no real interest in doing stage shows for the love of it. Back then it paid well even the clubs and hotels paid well. Now they pay LESS than nearly 15 years ago. Plus there really are only a few opportunties not worth putting time into.

Your right Bobser I can't take on board your reality just like you can't take on mine. We are looking through different lenses.

You also don't seem to take on board that most of the source of gigs in scotland have banned stage hypnosis. Mainly due to the market being over run with self taught hypnotists who caused so many problems it was enevitable that the market would crash.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 30, 2008 08:34PM)
The last thing hypnosis needs right now here is a new wave running around doing it randomly in public places. But that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. Hypnosis is a fantastic tool I just think it deserves a little more respect.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 30, 2008 10:37PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-30 21:34, mindpunisher wrote:
The last thing hypnosis needs right now here is a new wave running around doing it randomly in public places. But that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. Hypnosis is a fantastic tool I just think it deserves a little more respect.
[/quote]

You may not believe this but we do agree here on both points.
Message: Posted by: Nongard1 (May 31, 2008 06:24AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 11:01, Cyar wrote:
On the business side (and what little I know) I learned some interesting things from Don Mottin's tapes. He has in his contract if the booker provides less than 50 people for the show, then he has the option of doing a demonstration. Another thing is to find out if and how you can promote yourself (cd's, promotional items, clinical work, etc.) as they might not appreciate this being done during the performance.

Please chime in for those of you with experience.
[/quote]

Don Mottin is giving bad advice then. People paid for ENTERTAINMENT, not a psychology lecture. And most stage hypnotists are ill prepared to do a meaningful "lecture". I have heard this advice attributed to a number of people, often with a real chip on the shoulder "I would never do a show for less than 50!"

WRONG.... as a professional, one should be prepared to do a show with ANY number of people...

Just about any hypnotist can pull off a good show with 200 people in the audience... it is the real pro who can pull it off woth three people onstage and 24 in the audience!

And the easiest way to make certain you don't have any further books it to tell a group, "Sorry, your not big enough for me" or at the last minute to say "Your party guests are getting a classroom lecture..."

I have seen Cerbone to a one man show. And it was funny! Bet Anthony can pull that off too....

Richard
Message: Posted by: bobser (May 31, 2008 08:57AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-30 21:34, mindpunisher wrote:
The last thing hypnosis needs right now here is a new wave running around doing it randomly in public places. But that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. Hypnosis is a fantastic tool I just think it deserves a little more respect.
[/quote]

I don't believe there's anyone in here would disagree with that. In fact I've yet to see a post in here supporting: 'running around doing it it randomly in public places' and I don't know anyone who does that.
I do think we should think slow before acting fast. We should ask ourselves what a person actually meant when they said a certain thing, before taking it out of context and adding an adjective here and an adverb there. There is simply no point in constructing a happening in the minds of people that, in reality, never took place.
However, what I think IS happening, in todays modern world, is that young academic students of psychology, not wanting to pay what they consider to be absorbetent (spelt ok?) prices, or lets be honest they just cannot afford to go on the thousand pound plus courses, still want to go and 'get their hypnosis OUT'. That's all that's happening. There are no BAD guys here.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 31, 2008 10:13AM)
Then we percieve "street attacks" differently. I thought street attacks involve public places of random choice.

I don't think anyone is "bad" I just think its a bad idea. In light of all the stuff that's happened in the past and the current situation with many councils and universities effectively banning hypnosis. And now even bar owners are getting the squeeze.

What will happen will happen but its not something I am really interested in. The value of stage work here has plummeted. I can only see this as taking it further down the road.

Either way I hope you manage to keep out of any anti backlash should this street attack thing catch on to any considerable degree. Because if it does its almost enevitable it will happen.

I am not a BAD guy either. I'm just voicing my opinion. And having nothing against you personally. "Sparring" with you on here is just a bit of fun.

Watching the demise of stage hypnosis is something that used to bother me but now I really don't care.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 31, 2008 10:17AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-31 07:24, Nongard1 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 11:01, Cyar wrote:
On the business side (and what little I know) I learned some interesting things from Don Mottin's tapes. He has in his contract if the booker provides less than 50 people for the show, then he has the option of doing a demonstration. Another thing is to find out if and how you can promote yourself (cd's, promotional items, clinical work, etc.) as they might not appreciate this being done during the performance.

Please chime in for those of you with experience.
[/quote]

Don Mottin is giving bad advice then. People paid for ENTERTAINMENT, not a psychology lecture. And most stage hypnotists are ill prepared to do a meaningful "lecture". I have heard this advice attributed to a number of people, often with a real chip on the shoulder "I would never do a show for less than 50!"

WRONG.... as a professional, one should be prepared to do a show with ANY number of people...

Just about any hypnotist can pull off a good show with 200 people in the audience... it is the real pro who can pull it off woth three people onstage and 24 in the audience!

And the easiest way to make certain you don't have any further books it to tell a group, "Sorry, your not big enough for me" or at the last minute to say "Your party guests are getting a classroom lecture..."

I have seen Cerbone to a one man show. And it was funny! Bet Anthony can pull that off too....

Richard
[/quote]

But why? I thought professional meant someone who actually made real money out of their craft? I started out doing small groups. But once I got to a certain level I wouldn't bother accepting bookings below a certain number. I don't understand the logic. I believe your mindset attracts whatever level you are prepared to accept. Water finds its own level etc.

that's why once you hit a certain level theres no really going back. At least in my mind.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 31, 2008 05:58PM)
Now we get to the sarcasam.

There are HUNDREDS of reasons, completly out of the control of the performer which can make for small shows.

Tell ya what, the 24 people paid the same money that they would if there were 200 people.

Do you refund half the money because you do a worse show? I have seen shows with 200 people in them and they sucked! Do I get money back? No. So to attribute things like this to audience size is pitifull on the part of the performer.

THIS IS ONE REASON I say it takes years to become a great performer. I have done shows with one person in them and they do rock relativly speaking. It is about being a professional.

Your reasoning MP is why you are so bitter and not doing stage work any more. Pretty simple really.

I have had shows where a few show up, and they did great. I have had shows with a ton of people at them that went mediocre. Go figure.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jun 1, 2008 03:05PM)
You really have a problem Danny don't you? you see a problem and bitterness where it doesn't exist. If you do shows where 24 people pay the same as 200 then I salute
you. I,ld be very interested to see those invoices. I think your on drugs.

My reasoning is why Im now moving away from stage hypnosis because the earning potential has evaporated in this country. My reasoning is why Im now back on track to earning the kind of money I used to earn but had to create a new market.

NO ONE DOES HYPNOSIS SHOWS IN SCOTLAND ANYMORE AND MAKES A REALLY GOOD LIVING. The market isn't there.

If you can get 24 people to pay you the kind of money you claim then I think that's great. Perhaps once in a blue moon. I doubt very much they would get their money's worth though. I don't think anyone could get that kind of money here. Not for a hypnosis gig. For one hypnosis is considered low brow and down market entertainment in this country and always has.

I had shows where few people turned up did great to. But the ones that paid me the sort of money I want had lots of people turn up. At the end of the day its what level you want to work at. I didn't want to do those gigs and I quickly rose to doing the kind of gigs that generated the kind of money I wanted.

Just as now I am creating the kind of services and products that will generate the kind of money I want.

Bitter? Perhaps Im just a little more creative and ambitious than you? I just have a different meaning for professional. To me its accepting what you know your worth and having the courage to reject what you don't want even when you need it.

I don't undertand the logic of working with small groups as a measure of professionalism. I cut my teeth on small groups most beginners do. Because that's usually the only options open to them.

Perhaps you just don't like the fact that you have to do more of those small groups than you would like to. Your the one that sounds bitter to me.

Using the small size of a group to measure professionalism is about as cockeyed as claiming to be the fatest.

You should only ever accept gigs or anything else in life that are true to yourself.
Its called integrity.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 1, 2008 06:30PM)
And the point is yet again missed.
Message: Posted by: Nongard1 (Jun 1, 2008 07:07PM)
The size of the group can have little to do with profitability. Some pay a flat fee no matter how many people, and at that small show you might meet the next guy to book you 10 shows a year for 200 people. People who wont learn how to do a small show slit there own throat in business.
Message: Posted by: JasonLinett (Jun 1, 2008 07:13PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 16:05, mindpunisher wrote:

.........

Using the small size of a group to measure professionalism is about as cockeyed as claiming to be the fatest.

.........

[/quote]

Yes, I know it was a typo, but still, I'd like to see a run of hypnotists claiming the skill of being the "World's Fattest."

Let's see how many weight loss CDs that guy sells after his show!

And hey... stop fighting. :)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 2, 2008 01:19AM)
I guess the point is you are paid to do a job, you should do the job right? Is that not what a pro does in the end? HIS JOB?

So you end up with 25 people, and the night will not be profitable, and you will not sell nearly as many DVD's after your show. Those people did NOT KNOW they were going to be a small crowd now did they? Why should they get a lesser quality show than if 250 showed up? The idea is ludicris at best.

I am not claiming anything except that the people who show up should, heck are ENTITLED TO the best possible show and the cop out of a lecture is not that.

It has NOTHING TO DO with "fastest" or some stupid comparison you want to make.

Hey here is an idea. How about you offer those people a refund when you tell them you are not really doing the show but offering a lame lecture? How about you take no fee at all? If you are not willing to do this then suck it up be a pro and do the darn show for the people who have paid you to see the thing.

I have done shows where the first in a series starts out with under 50. Yep actually 23 people. But when I was done doing the thing once a week for only a few weeks word spread like wild fire and we had to pre sell tickets and add shows. Do you think that would happen if we had canceled shows and did lectures? How many people would tell their friends what a great "lecture on hypnosis" they saw?

So again I agree with Richard, I see that advice and I cringe. It is quite short sighted and can really cut your own throat in a way.

Maybe when you are as established as our friend Mindpunisher then you can do things like that. But those of us who have to toil away in reality have long term considerations to think of.

Then I have this annoying thing I guess is not as prevelant as I think it is. I like to actually give people what they pay for. It is not all about me in the end. You know that out dated concept of "customer service" and all. Guess that is not going well across the pond either huh MP? Once I agree to do the show, FOR WHATEVER MONEY, then they get the same show. Seems to make sense to me.

It is also why earlier I agreed with the ol MP when he said smart things about people not taking shows when they have not really worked them up.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jun 2, 2008 05:06AM)
In the heat of debate there can be times when I'm not too sure when I'm winning the argument or not. Yet funnily enough, I always know when I've just been slaughtered!
I think this is a good time MP for saying to Danny and Richard: "Thanks for enlightening me, I never really thought about it that way". Then we can all be friends and go play in the woods.
Message: Posted by: Vincent.Lynch (Jun 6, 2008 05:38AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-29 07:21, bobser wrote:
Thankyou Anthony for once again stretching the English hand of friendship across Hadrian's Dyke. Although there may be a French connection with you. That would mean the 'auld alliance' is back and in good working order. I like it! Much better than the two death threats I've been PM'd with (think it's Mindpunisher but I can't be positive).
And thank you for your advice Martin, but I want to smell the sawdust and taste the blood this time around.

bobser
[/quote]


Jeez ant, we'll be giving them their own parliment next.. I'll blame you when theres a war.

[edit: reads thread - decides to repost]

I've just read the thread, and I want to say thankyou to everyone who's participated in the thread, it really is top quality advice. Without explaining my own personal situation too much, I just feel so honored to hear professionals talking about these points of organising successful repeated stage hypnosis shows and what they involve.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jun 6, 2008 01:45PM)
Danny:

I agree with you on customer service. that's why I commit myself to only delivering shows that have the chance of giving people what they paid for. Low numbers don't do that not for a hypnosis show. When I started I did a few bars to start and quickly realised that the surroundings and physical setting interrupted the quality of the show. So even although I was being asked to do more I refused. Instead I visited hotels and bars only with function rooms. Provided all the publicity materials and I took the door money while they took the bar. So the shows cost them nothing.

At that time agents wouldn't use me. I also took advice from my mentor to charge 25-50% more than local established hypnotists. If not enough folks bought tickets I would cancel the show and return money. Although when I first started that would be rare. It took about four or five months before my name was going around. I was also doing something fresh at that time and in a way no one else in my area was.

Therefore agents were being asked if they could book me by venues much to their annoyance. So they approached me only to find I put my price up again. They hated me.

By this time I didn't need to do a door deal and had fixed prices that venues were happy to pay. Then came the 4 walling. I didn't need the small venues so once again I put my prices up for that type of venue. I actually got more bookings!

I think its a mindset. You get what you think your worth its nothing to do with customer service. I did great jobs for the size and quality of venues I wanted to do. I refused those or refunded money for those that didn't meet my criteria. Which takes courage when you are going through a quiet period. But to do so wouldn't be true to yourself.

You don't have to do shows in conditions you don't want to. Likewise doing therapy you don't have to work with everyone that contacts you. Your clients shop around before they book you so why not do the same with clients?

It all depends upon what you want ot of it. The bigger the goal though the higher the price in commitment disappointments and kicks in the teeth before you get there. Life is like that you take the easy immediate road or you go for a higher destination. Its choice anyone can make. But you can't do both.


Likewise I now use hypnosis in a different context (persuasion) but it has taken years of self torture and being used etc to get there. Finally ive cracked it just signed up my first company for a 2 year contract. And a second to follow. No one is doing what Im doing in Scotland if not the UK. I stopped doing training programmes and only do 2 year contracts now. Which was brave since this has been a tough year. I turned down work when I needed it most. I stuck by my decision now its working out.

I could've took the easy route and accepted whatever came my way. I didn't its not my mindset. Like I said I don't understand the logic in accepting small shows. Sure at the very beginning when your starting out. But aim to get out of that situation as quickly as you can.

Fostering the belief that's its professional to accept small shows is aiming to stay there. Do you really want doomed to doing these gigs forever?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 6, 2008 04:15PM)
Hey Shrink, I work in some of the most exclusive resorts in the world. I am happy to be "doomed to these types of gigs" as opposed to being bitter.

You really made me laugh with that last comment.
Message: Posted by: RSD (Jun 6, 2008 05:30PM)
Doom please take me away! lol

I used to have a clause in my contract that said I need 60 people to do a show. I had to inact that clause twice. That was long ago. Now I have the show biz mentality "the show must go on". Since then, I have done shows with as few people as 20 people in the audience. The client paid for it - I deliver it. Doing these small shows really helped me out. It not only gave me more confidence in my show, but I learned more about hypnosis, and some other techniques as a result. Do you know how easy it is for me now when I walk into a room with 500 people? lol.

Try the smaller crowds - they will only make you bigger.
Message: Posted by: Tom Riddle (Jun 6, 2008 10:14PM)
I must admit that I am new to stage hypnosis but I have done quite a few paid shows. I always ask how many people are going to be there. If there are fewer than 50 I try to persuade them to have my magic show instead which is far cheaper anyway. Another factor is that you can't get the same money for a small show as you can for a big one.

Of course if it is a situation where they are expecting a lot of people and very few actually show up then you have to do the show. I once had only 16 people in the audience so I hypnotised everyone. Around 10 came out of it and the other 6 went into trance so everything was OK.

I once say Danny say somewhere that you shouldn't do a show that you are not capable of since your reputation will suffer. I am quite prepared to admit that in most cases I am not capable of doing shows with few in the audience unless I am forced to. I would rather not put my reputation at stake.

Perhaps one day I will be as good as everyone else and then I will take the risk of doing shows with few people.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Apr 11, 2009 12:33AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-06 23:14, Tom Riddle wrote:
I must admit that I am new to stage hypnosis but I have done quite a few paid shows. I always ask how many people are going to be there. If there are fewer than 50 I try to persuade them to have my magic show instead which is far cheaper anyway. Another factor is that you can't get the same money for a small show as you can for a big one.

Of course if it is a situation where they are expecting a lot of people and very few actually show up then you have to do the show. I once had only 16 people in the audience so I hypnotised everyone. Around 10 came out of it and the other 6 went into trance so everything was OK.

I once say Danny say somewhere that you shouldn't do a show that you are not capable of since your reputation will suffer. I am quite prepared to admit that in most cases I am not capable of doing shows with few in the audience unless I am forced to. I would rather not put my reputation at stake.

Perhaps one day I will be as good as everyone else and then I will take the risk of doing shows with few people.
[/quote]

Since I am a newby but have been doing mentalism shows for years I am hoping of incorporating the two into something unique when I am proficient in hypnosis. IF anyone has combined these two arts into a show, please PM me. Id love to hear about it.

Thanks

Candin
Message: Posted by: Nongard1 (Apr 11, 2009 02:03AM)
Doin a small show is easy. Instead of brining people up and then doing an induction, do an induction with the whole audience and brng your subjects up after the induction.... waking the rest up to enjoy the show....
Using this method, you can pull off a show with 17 people...
I have done it...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Apr 11, 2009 08:12AM)
You can "pull off" a show no doubt. And I'm sure you are good at it. But why would you want to? I mean it will never be as good as a full size show for many reasons. And the chance of it flopping is higher no matter how good your process is.Its just my view but I don't think its worth the effort.

Me very first show I pulled off with only 8 people! 4 of them volunteered and two went under. A lot of luck involved. There were supposed to be 150 beilieve it or not in a catholic church. But my bottle went and I cancelled it. Later the 8 who stayed behind including the catholic priest got me drunk and we had a go.

It was a bit like having sex for the first time you don't want to let the poor volunteers go incase you never find anymore. They suffered I am ashamed to admit.

And all under gods roof. Has to be the most surreal venue ive ever done.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 11, 2009 10:44AM)
[quote]

Since I am a newby but have been doing mentalism shows for years I am hoping of incorporating the two into something unique when I am proficient in hypnosis. IF anyone has combined these two arts into a show, please PM me. Id love to hear about it.

Thanks

Candin
[/quote]

MANY people have incorporated hypnosis and mentalism.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Apr 11, 2009 11:16AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-11 11:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]

Since I am a newby but have been doing mentalism shows for years I am hoping of incorporating the two into something unique when I am proficient in hypnosis. IF anyone has combined these two arts into a show, please PM me. Id love to hear about it.

Thanks

Candin
[/quote]

MANY people have incorporated hypnosis and mentalism.
[/quote]

Encouraging, thanks Danny.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Apr 11, 2009 12:43PM)
Its a very natural thing to do since both deal with the mind. Hypnosis can make mentalism even more credible. And its not difficult.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Apr 11, 2009 03:30PM)
I'm on The BBC tomorrow (Easter Sunday)for about an hour. Gonna be doing a bit of mentalism BUT a certain part of that will be pure hypnosis with amnesia, assuming I can get my hands on someone from the programme for a few minutes in a wee room somewhere.

bobser
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Apr 11, 2009 04:33PM)
Good luck - yer a brave man.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Apr 12, 2009 03:47PM)
Worked a treat. Luckily found someone who was a natural sumnambulisticato (Latin). Invited back next month to do past life regression. Luckily the top man is a believer. Doing therapy plus a stage show this month. It'll be interesting to see purely from a marketing aspect if The BBC gig will help bring the numbers up. So, the question is: "If bobser builds it will they come?"
I asked the same question last month after doing a radio show followed by a hypno night in Portsmouth and the answer then was: "Will we feck!".
But y'know, you gotta stay positive.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Apr 12, 2009 07:39PM)
The real value of all these radio shows press releases etc is not in the immediate response. But in creating a compelling stack of reasons why someone should hire you in the future. Comments testimonials and audios on your website and marketing materials.

that's where the real value of these things are.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Apr 12, 2009 09:55PM)
Great Bobser......I am brainstorming now and trying to come up with something creative. I have done some pseudo inductions (or probably were real now I think about it) but you are right Mindpunisher. All valuable.


I just have to come up with creative ideas to incorporate this stuff into my shows.

PS: I speak in future tense of course but trying to "visualize."