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Topic: White Star by Jim Critchlow
Message: Posted by: Alan Rorrison (May 29, 2008 09:37AM)
http://www.magicshop.co.uk/p2944/White_Star_-_By_Jim_Critchlow/product_info.html

Has any one else seen this? To me it looks likea mentalist dream. What an AMAZING presentational hook. I cant wait to start playing with this one.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 29, 2008 10:28AM)
Some pretty good working conditions too.


No Sleight of Hand Required

Instant Reset

Cards can be mixed and shuffled

No switched or swapped cards
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (May 29, 2008 10:45AM)
So...it is like a Out of this world with photos?
Message: Posted by: Alan Rorrison (May 29, 2008 10:49AM)
By the looks of it mate. persoanly I love the idea. I'm sure ive seen derren brown so somthign similar but I love the story with this one etc
Message: Posted by: booswain (May 29, 2008 11:03AM)
Looks cool..anyone know where this can be purchased in the US
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (May 29, 2008 11:21AM)
Hi Booswain

White Star has just been released today so will only be available from The Merchant of Magic http://www.magicshop.co.uk for a while. However the shop does ship worldwide and shipping to any country is £5 (approx $10) per whole order, regardless of how many items you purchase, so its not bad for delivery costs.

Hope this helps

Dominic
Message: Posted by: Christopher Congreave (May 29, 2008 01:19PM)
I met Jim a few years back and he is a really nice guy with some great ideas, some of his stuff can be found on Colin Rose' site, he showed me some cool stuff he had made out of wood etc.

This looks really nice Jim, well done mate!
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (May 29, 2008 04:09PM)
Very Derren-ish. :rotf:

Greg
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (May 30, 2008 03:22AM)
Obviously another Dead/Alive OOTW effect. This time with the titanic storyline.
Not very impressive.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (May 30, 2008 06:18PM)
Hi CinChiller

One feature of White Star is that you let the spectators choose the images they want to keep, then you DON'T need to adjust the packets/piles in any way at all. No switches or swapping etc etc. Just sit back if you want and let them read about the people they selected, and watch them discover for themselves what the passangers all have in common.


Sorry to hear it does not appeal to you. I've been road testing it for over two years now since Jim first showed it to me at 06 Blackpool Convention and have loved the interaction and depth of responce I've got from spectators with it. Each to their own though...

Best wishes
Dominic
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (May 30, 2008 07:34PM)
Ah... Free Will! Gotcha!
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Jun 8, 2008 06:42AM)
I've been watching Jim perform this since its inception and the reaction it gets is fantastic. Roger Curzon said it's that good he's sorry Jim has put it out!
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Jun 8, 2008 09:17AM)
$60 is a lot of money!
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Jun 8, 2008 11:24AM)
Yes it is.But the Dollar/Sterling disparity is not the shops fault[as has been said many times before!]
The ad. for this reads like John Kennedys 'Red and Black' or at least the 'Red and Black version by Gordon Bean which appeared in a old Genii which used the
Gilbreath principle. I could be completely wrong of course.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 10, 2008 06:26AM)
HI lunatik

Yep $60 is not a pocket money effect. (There's room there for a complete debate on the benifits of keeping some effects a bit pricey, but that's for another time) £/$ exchange rates aside, a lot of the cost has gone into the materials supplied. Jim and I wanted to make them as high quality as we could, so a LOT of time went into researching to produce the images and stories (over 2 years research just getting the source material and developing/researching the backgrounds) we also went for high grade card stock and went through THREE printing companies just to get them 'spot on'. The first prototypes were on regular card without the lamination coatings, but in the end (and after several long meetings) we decided it was better to blow the budget completely and go for the best stock and printing/finishing process money could buy. The product is intented to be used 'in the trenches' rather than just a few times to friends and family, so its vital that the cards will hold up to regualr use and being played with by the spectators. I'm very happy with the results.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 10, 2008 06:36AM)
Found the first review from a Magic Café Member on a different thread, so may be of interest http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=260482&forum=14

[quote]
On 2008-06-08 17:15, docsteve wrote:
There is a nice new 'wrinkle' associated here, although I have to say the method may not suit many as much as the standard OOTW.
The materials included are excellent - really really excellent.
Jim Critchlow's manuscript is well credited and uniformally brilliant throughout; the cards themselves, with the background stories attached are fascinating. They will generate a huge ammount of interest in any close up performance.
In the UK £30 is a fair price; for the boys in the US? I'm a little concerned it may be too much if you already have Dan's work, especially with postage costs.

More to follow (gigging Friday night - will perform there after show in bar).
Steve

OK a real "Field test":
I used the "Beyond.." handling - spectators mix the photos, and an experiment takes place.
Now, as the manuscript says, this IS NOT A CARD TRICK!! And don't play it as such.
And you know what? It works unbelievably. I did this twice, and got great reactions, without anyone catching on to what I regard is the weakness of the effect.
I'm going to continue to play with this, and I'm going to use Mr Critchlow's methods with the "From Hell" cards.
As I say, nice cards, nice wrinkle, but costs may be a little high if you're paying for this with US shipping.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: magico563 (Jun 10, 2008 09:18AM)
I am very good friends with Jim Critchlow and Roger Curzon and they are top guys, I have a lot of respect for them both. I have seen Jim's 'White Star' a few times and I think it is fantastic.

Jim is a guy who loves methods and seeing into things and seeing what else could be made out of a certain method.

Nice one Jim, magico563 :)
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 13, 2008 02:10PM)
http://www.magicshop.co.uk is setting up a dedicated forum for owners of White Star as I write this. The Site is launching that service next month, and White Star will be one of the products to have its own passworded 'owners' section, to swap ideas, presentaions and tips etc.


Best wishes

Dominic Reyes
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Jun 21, 2008 11:25AM)
It still sounds like an interesting plot, would like to see a demo!
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 22, 2008 11:58AM)
Hi Lunatik

We filmed a trailer. It's now on the product page http://www.magicshop.co.uk/p2944/White_Star_-_By_Jim_Critchlow/product_info.html

Its a trailer rather than demo as we wanted to show the presentation theme/mood and 'feel' of the effect, The trailer doesn't need to show the method/process as the written description already covers this fully.
Message: Posted by: Andi Peters (Jun 22, 2008 01:17PM)
Derren Brown did an ootw living and dead test on his TV special. He used regular photos and wrote 'deceased' on the back of those photos containing people who died.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 22, 2008 01:40PM)
Yep, I love Derrens Undertaker effect. It's a different method and presentation to White Star, but both get quite similar reactions and create a lasting impression on the spectators. I hear Doug Segal does an excellent version in his show too.
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Jun 22, 2008 03:56PM)
Thanks for the trailer Dominic, very interesting! Is this repeatable?
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 22, 2008 06:57PM)
Hi lunatik,

Yes, its repeatable and resets instantly. However, remember "once a trick, twice a lesson")
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 05:15AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-30 19:18, Dominic Reyes wrote:

One feature of White Star is that you let the spectators choose the images they want to keep, then you DON'T need to adjust the packets/piles in any way at all. No switches or swapping etc etc. Just sit back if you want and let them read about the people they selected, and watch them discover for themselves what the passangers all have in common.

[/quote]

Wait a second... The magician/mentalist NEVER touches the cards?? Are the cards regular? I thought it was OOTW but with a clever presentation/history?
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 23, 2008 06:31AM)
There's no reason why you could not use the OOTW method for an effect like this, if you reworked the presentation and you would have to adapt the photo cards, but with White Star the spectators make their selections and the magician does not need to adjust the selected card piles or packets at all. The spectators can shuffle the photos completely and the photos are used in THAT completely RANDOM order. The photo cards are also completely examinable, which is actually recommended as part of the presentation.

Its also nice not to reveal what the effect is at the end. Just have each spectator look through their selections and read about the people, the fact that they seperated the living from the dead, jumps out at them all by itself. It really adds to the reactions, without the magician unconsciously conmunicating 'look how clever I am! etc etc'.


Hope that helps

Dominic
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 07:24AM)
Yes, that's what Derren Brown has done actually, no? But aparently this method seems really fair (DB does not make the spectator mix the cards... but why should he actually, they're not playing cards... ;) )!

Thanks for your help Dominic, the effect seems interesting and intriguing (the idea of the Titanic, together with the coin and pen, appeals to me), but I think I'll wait for a little more different reviews.

Best,

Ben
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 07:59AM)
I do hope that for $60 there's a little more than a few photos, an old coin and a pen... :)
Message: Posted by: Gabor (Jun 23, 2008 08:05AM)
It would be interesting if there were a blank version for non-English speaking costumers.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 08:14AM)
I think the cards are laminated, so it would be difficult to sell the same set...

I don't think it's a big problem though: the history is about the Titanic, which passengers were mostly from the UK... People just have to understand "alive" or "dead"...
Message: Posted by: Gabor (Jun 23, 2008 08:22AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-23 09:14, goldeneye007 wrote:
I think the cards are laminated, so it would be difficult to sell the same set...

I don't think it's a big problem though: the history is about the Titanic, which passengers were mostly from the UK... People just have to understand "alive" or "dead"...
[/quote]

Yes, maybe storytelling can solve the problem. You could refer to the photos as souvenirs from a Titanic museum located in the UK. :)
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 08:40AM)
Absolutely! :) It's even better!
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Jun 23, 2008 09:28AM)
Can this be modified to be use for STAGE performance?.....and what is the limitations?
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 10:13AM)
Get a camera mesmer... ;) Just joking...

DB does this though...

But I think I get your point, let's wait for Dominic to answer.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Jun 23, 2008 10:15AM)
Since I own and do Split Reality....which the method is so simple....and if this allow the packet to be mix...the we have a winner
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 23, 2008 10:23AM)
I get your point. :)
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 23, 2008 10:48AM)
Hi Mesmer

You can have the packets fully mixed with White Star.

White Star would work perfectly on stage. You would not have any limitations apart from the photo cards being the approx size of a playing card.

If you prefer not to have a camera and projector (which could also be used to show some stock footage of Titanic etc to set the mood) you would need to scan them and reprint to make then jumbo size, or alternativly, just use some general stock images from that era, instead of the passanger photos included in White Star. The method, presentation and routine fit perfectly on stage, so its just a scale issue, and easy to set up.

Hope this helps

Dominic
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 23, 2008 11:31AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-23 08:59, goldeneye007 wrote:
I do hope that for $60 there's a little more than a few photos, an old coin and a pen... :)
[/quote]
Do the coin and the pen come with the cards Dominic?

......or is this something that is suggested, and must be purchased after the fact?

Also, in light of this question, could you please clear up exactly what comes in the package..DVD, how many pages of instructions, etc?

And have you at all thought of offering this as a download, similar to the fashion "Split Reality" is being offered?
In a download the customer would print out their own cards, and also print out the written blurbs on the back of the cards.

The $60.00 price still seems a bit high....perhaps a clear explanation of the package might make the price seem more reasonable.
Although equal to "From Hell" in price, as I pointed out in an earlier post, "From Hell" appears to come with more props and a forum to justify its $60.00 price tag.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 23, 2008 12:01PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-10 07:26, Dominic Reyes wrote:

Yep $60 is not a pocket money effect. (There's room there for a complete debate on the benifits of keeping some effects a bit pricey, but that's for another time) £/$ exchange rates aside, a lot of the cost has gone into the materials supplied. Jim and I wanted to make them as high quality as we could, so a LOT of time went into researching to produce the images and stories (over 2 years research just getting the source material and developing/researching the backgrounds) we also went for high grade card stock and went through THREE printing companies just to get them 'spot on'. The first prototypes were on regular card without the lamination coatings, but in the end (and after several long meetings) we decided it was better to blow the budget completely and go for the best stock and printing/finishing process money could buy. The product is intented to be used 'in the trenches' rather than just a few times to friends and family, so its vital that the cards will hold up to regular use and being played with by the spectators. I'm very happy with the results.
[/quote]

See above ref price, however, I have a correction. I think the value of the $60 is really in Jims idea for the method. I know personally If I had come up with it myself, and all the tips, lines and psychological hooks etc, I would not have wanted to teach it to anyone even if they offered me several times more than $60. It would just stay in my act. But if Jim is happy to share it with the magic community, then that's his choice and as it's my job to represent him, I respect that choice.

You would need to source your own 'pen and coin' which is pretty easy to do at any antique shop, ebay etc.

Ref a download version: Jim and I have no plans to release White Star as a download. I'm very proud of the finished item, and the two years of research that went into getting the background material etc, so would rather keep it at a mid-range price, to keep the value in it for the magicians who have already purchased and use the effect.

I would be happy to recommend our customers perhaps only brought White Star rather two other effects from our shop, which would amount to the same cost. I've faith that they would also be happy with the result, if a budget was an issue in their choice.

If its going to be performed publically, I'd rather lose out on a LOAD of sales by avoiding a cheaper download version, than have it presented to spectators without the best physical appearence I can offer. A costly decission for us to take, but Jim and I both agree its not just about the business side of magic at the end of the day.

P.S A White Star ideas Forum is being set up for launch at the end of the month
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 23, 2008 01:00PM)
[quote]
........ however, I have a correction. I think the value of the $60 is really in Jims idea for the method.
[/quote]
This is an important distinction, and offers clarity.
Message: Posted by: Gabor (Jun 24, 2008 04:49PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-23 11:48, Dominic Reyes wrote:

If you prefer not to have a camera and projector (which could also be used to show some stock footage of Titanic etc to set the mood) you would need to scan them and reprint to make then jumbo size, or alternativly, just use some general stock images from that era, instead of the passanger photos included in White Star. The method, presentation and routine fit perfectly on stage, so its just a scale issue, and easy to set up.

Hope this helps

Dominic
[/quote]

So if I'm correct it means there's no indetectable special something and we pay for the idea that is adaptable to any pictures?
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 24, 2008 06:03PM)
In the book that comes with White Star, Jim teaches methods that you can apply to alternative pictures. Jim also teaches some versions which use playing cards instead of the photo cards. You could use your own photo cards to make a light hearted version etc. You could have a selection of pictures of general people and have the spectators 'magically' sort them into:

Republicans or Democrats

People that love Marmite and those that hate it (a UK popular TV advert campaign at the moment)

show almost identical pictures of glassed of soda and sort Pepsi from Coke.

etc etc etc

I'm personally trying to think of a version to use for Weddings. Any ideas...?
Message: Posted by: Marc Spelmann (Jun 24, 2008 06:40PM)
Single / Married
Married / Divorced (could be quite funny)

??

Best

MS
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jun 24, 2008 08:26PM)
I just ordered this. Lots of possibilities.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 25, 2008 02:31AM)
Hi Marc Lol, Married/Devorced :) I've got this funny feeling though that there IS a great presentation idea for weddings out there, but I can't quite get it. Just come up against a mental wall each time I try to hit on it.

Thought about one of the spectators selection turning out to be all single people, and the other spectator has people who are married. But that has a depressing note to any singles/ widows / devorced etc etc at the wedding maybe? Also no real emotional hook there. DOH! Someone anyone...?



Had an idea which might be funny to perform on the right group of girls. Show Photos of guys, and have two girls choose which ones they want to keep. One of the girls ends up with Millionaires the other with guys that are broke. That presentation would get some great laughs from the group, and allow plenty of fun/gags along the way. Ties in well with the 'Joe Millionaire' TV Shows.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 04:55AM)
Thank you silverking for asking clarification concerning the pen and coin. I thought, after a first reading, that they were included in the trick... Of course it's not THAT important, but it's good to know.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 05:29AM)
I just re-read the thread and I really can't understand a few things...

Apparently, for $60, we get a few laminated photographs (which is ok for repeated use, but I don't see why it's necessary otherwise, since an old photo is... an old photo, and usually they're not laminated... anyway...), a manuscript with a method and that's all... So the magician never touches the cards, the specator makes free choices all along, no packet changes, swapping of the cards or whatever (I'm just listing what has been written here), but we still pay for a method...

A reviewer states he will apply the method to the previously released trick "From Hell"... What the "hell" does that mean???? ( ;) ) I hadn't read that when I wrote my first post so that's why I did not react to that at the time but it's really ackward: there's NOTHING to do in "From Hell"... The idea is, imo, quite ingenious, and the trick is... well... completely automatic! I don't want to speak in details about this and the pros and cons of the trick, but those who know about this will understand... That's why I really cannot understand what the person who "wants to apply [the method of White Star] to From Hell" means??? But maybe I missed something...

And people do not really seem to give an opinion on WS... I'm not trying to fish for anything here, and I truly like the idea about the Titanic... But selling a trick at nearly twice the price of another one that works in the same conditions (apparently: cards mixed, nothing to do etc etc... I'm referring to From Hell here) really needs more explanations regarding its advantages. Ok there are old photographs which are laminated, ok there has been a great amount of research, but then other tricks required lots of research and sell for less...

In fact the question is simple: how is it that you can apply a method to another trick that does not require any method (or are we talking about presentation here, which is not the same for me), when on the other hand you can "just sit back if you want and let them read about the people they selected, and watch them discover for themselves what the passangers all have in common" (I'm quoting Dominic here), so apparently there is NOTHING to do...? Something is just not clear to me...

Any comments?

PS: I have a friend who is particularly annoying and cought one of my friends magician when he was doing the "classic" version of OOTW (no it's really not me, I don't like the idea of separating reds and blacks... I find it a bit annoying... that's why this version is interesting). With his knowledge of the old version, will he be able to catch me if I do White Star ?
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 05:37AM)
And please don't answer something like : "Well... stick to From Hell then!"...

If I wrote the post it's because I prefer THIS story to the macabre plot of From Hell which I cannot perform for any public. And apparently nothing is gimmicked here... Which is an advantage even if From Hell is examinable... under certain conditions.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 25, 2008 05:40AM)
Hi goldeneye007

I think the reviewer was saying that you could use the cards from 'From Hell if you wanted, but use the method from White Star, if you felt you prefered it. So you could do a titanic presentation or a Jack the Ripper presentation. The method taught in WhiteStar can be applied to other types of image cards.

Ref price: I'm happy to work for Jim and pop onto the forum to discuss White Star, but find discussing its price quite pointless. If you feel its not good value for you, please do not buy it. If you feel you will use it, or some of the variations taught in the book, then its a bargain even without the photo cards.

Not refering to you here goldeneye007 but as a magic dealer/manufacturer for many years now, it still amazes me that there is a tendency to value an effect by the gimmicks included, rather than its usefulness, entertainment value and the quality of the thinking.


Hope this helps

Dominic
Message: Posted by: aqmagish20 (Jun 25, 2008 06:21AM)
I have a review. I bpought it two weeks ago. Performed it yesterday for a parlor show of 35 people. It was the most talked about effect in my act that lasted 1/2 an hour. I don't know the other versions except OOTW. I was very suprised by the extent of the reaction. It lived up to the billing in the add. It actually had some comedic bits( I picked great volunteers)up until I revealed that they were passengers on the titanic. Then the tone turned to something different. I do mostly sleight of hand and light hearted fun stuff so it was a great piece in the middle to bring things to a different tone. To use an overused saying, "it packs small and plays big." IT was wellworht the price for me. I have no coneection to the maker/producer or otherwise other than enjoying what they have produced. IT is in my rotation for sure.

Andy
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 07:35AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-25 06:40, Dominic Reyes wrote:

Ref price: I'm happy to work for Jim and pop onto the forum to discuss White Star, but find discussing its price quite pointless. If you feel its not good value for you, please do not buy it. If you feel you will use it, or some of the variations taught in the book, then its a bargain even without the photo cards.

Not refering to you here goldeneye007 but as a magic dealer/manufacturer for many years now, it still amazes me that there is a tendency to value an effect by the gimmicks included, rather than its usefulness, entertainment value and the quality of the thinking.

Dominic
[/quote]

Hello Dominic,

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I do know that an effect can be cheap and VERY good when an expensive effect can be VERY bad. This is exactly why I tend to think before buying an expensive effect. And this is general of course; when I say expensive, it must be replaced into its context: if you buy a floating table, then of course it's more expensive than buying a packet trick...

That is also why I try to have a good idea of what I'm getting, the conditions, the props etc etc... So as to know what I'm paying for. You say : "If you feel its not good value for you, please do not buy it." I totally agree with that and that's exactly what I'm trying to find out! And till now I do not have sufficient relevant elements that can help me decide. This is why I wrote my post.

Further, as a magician/customer I'm also tired of effects that sit in the bottom of your drawer because the effect doesn't suit you, often because the advertising was misleading (and I'm not an 8-year-old kid who is disappointed because an effect is based on a force or because a bill doesn't really fly...). I fully understand your point about people valuying an effect by the props they get. But then how would you value a CT or a Pass for example. Those techniques could be worth hundreds of $ considering how useful they are to me. But a CT leaflet can cost you less than $20... Again, I see your point from a dealer side, really; but you also have to understand that a lot of people out there do not want to buy something they won't use...

Just to give an example I bought a few years ago the "Glass box prediction". In the ad (at the time, maybe it has changed but I don't think so), it clearly says that the performer does not touch the box (which to some extent is true), that he doesn't touch anything (which is false) and that he is nowhere near the box (which is completely false)... When I received the effect (it was sold for over $100 at the time, I can't remember exactly how much), I only found out that I already performed a very similar effect (same method), so what I got for $100 was a stupid plastic box and a few pages... I don't want to go deep into this effect, it's just to give you an example to explain you how I don't want to feel.

I know we're not discussing about $100 here, but if you add several effects that you never use, it ends up to quit a bit... I really just want to know how good the conditions are, that's all. Please forgive me if you find my post too demanding and again, there's nothing against you Dominic, just exposing my point of view here.

Thank you Andy for your review, but, like others, we just learn that the effect is good... OOTW is also a good effect... That can be performed with photos like DB... Ok... I know... The cards can be shuffled and the performer doesn't do a thing... Anyway, it's good to know that people like it. No bad reviews it seems... Good! I guess you cannot go to deep into why it is good without exposing the method and I respect that.

Thanks again Dominic, I'll think about it. At the moment I think I might give it a try, but I'll wait a little.

A great day to all of you,

Ben
(sorry I didn't sign before, I'll have to do something about this... ;) )
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 07:42AM)
PS:I just checked about the Glass box prediction and I still found on some dealer's website misleading ads... It's not as bad as before (maybe the ad I read in the past can still be found though...). On some websites the ad is correct but on other it's really misleading. I mean by that, that things are stated on the ad that are really false.

The effect is all the same a very good one, but for people that were already using the same technique, it's misleading, that's all...

But sorry, back to the topic... :)
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 25, 2008 09:36AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-25 08:35, goldeneye007 wrote:
Please forgive me if you find my post too demanding and again, there's nothing against you Dominic, just exposing my point of view here.
[/quote]

No problem at all Ben, I was not offended, you raised an interesting point, that I feel strongly about.

I agree with most of your points. As a magician I too have brought a whole load of rubblish before, and that seems to be totally independent of the price I paid for it. Some cheap gems and some expensive duff's. That's why it makes me smile a bit when people get caught up about the price of an effect needing to be matched by the amount of pages in the booklet, or the number of gaffs included. Personally I think the price tag of a magic item often has an inverse relationship. Often the more gimmicks/gaffs props and materials that can be cut away, the more valuable it is to me.

I'd rather buy a jiffy bag stuffed full of good ideas than bits of gimmicked playing cards.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 09:41AM)
Completely agree with you there Dominic!

Thanks for your comprehension! :)
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 25, 2008 10:05AM)
Thanks for the review Andy. Glad your enjoying it!

Dominic
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 25, 2008 11:18AM)
The short answer is that it's laminated cards, instructions, $60.00.....take it or leave it.

My minds not made up yet on "White Star", as there are only one or two real reviews up, and the manufacturer isn't offering answers that effectively stop the kinds of questions being asked over and over, presumably in order not to tip method or elements unique to the effect.

(although for many of us, the methods are already well known and therein lies the series of posts in this thread in which potential buyers try to determine value for our dollar in terms of subtleties and variations of basic methods and handlings.)

Remembering you're talking to potential customers who are trying to talk themselves into buying "White Star", OR folks who will eventually buy this regardless of what's written in this thread....I'd not get too deep into the "if you don't like the price, don't buy it" line of posting.

In the end, threads like this are customers asking questions in possible preparation for purchasing "White Star".
If we weren't interested in buying it, we wouldn't be here. :)
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Jun 25, 2008 05:04PM)
I think at $45, people would be more apt to snatch it up. At $60, people are having a hard time letting go of their money when very similar effects are a lot cheaper. BUT, I'm not the creator or manufacter so I can't dictate prices lol. I think at the current price, there will have to be a good handful more reviews before people make the plunge. I could be wrong though :)
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 25, 2008 06:15PM)
I think you're probably right lunatik.

Agree with you silverking.

Both of you sum up quite well the situation! :)
Message: Posted by: Ezzet (Jun 26, 2008 08:50AM)
Well ive ordered it and I already have split reality. Once I get it I will put my review up. I never done a review so I hope you'll have patience with it.

Ezzet
Message: Posted by: Gabor (Jun 26, 2008 09:34AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-26 09:50, Ezzet wrote:
Well ive ordered it and I already have split reality. Once I get it I will put my review up. I never done a review so I hope you'll have patience with it.

Ezzet
[/quote]

All eyes are on you, Ezzet. :)
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 26, 2008 11:59AM)
This is the type of review most here have been waiting for.
I look forward to reading your thoughts on both of them Ezzet!
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 26, 2008 04:30PM)
Yes!! Me too! I can't wait to hear about that! Thanks Ezzet!
Message: Posted by: DrTodd (Jun 27, 2008 01:35AM)
I would like to add my own views on this product.

The blurb is 100% accurate.

No gimmicks.
Beautifully produced pictures with full biographical details on the back.
Great and all-improved method
Everything is completely examinable

You get 28 cards and 21-page booklet with the original routine and 4 additional routines.

Jim has pondered and cogitated for many years and come up with a wonderfully ingenious method for this effect. But beyond the method (which is both straightforward and devious), you get a great set of collector-style photos and a true story in which to couch your effect.

Yes,it is an OOTW plot,but in my view a better method and better premise than From Hell. You can use any two objects and dress this up as much as like. I could see this is a classic example of a Chelman-esque 'Hauntique' with assocoiated props one would have found on the Titanic.

I had a private event on Tuesday night with some after dinner entertainment and I used White Star as my closer. I did about 25 minutes of material that gradually got more implausible and then performed White Star.

I used an English penny from 1899 and a gold and ruby ring from 1910 as 'markers' for my participants, I used a couple that had been going out for over a year and made a lot of that fact to explain that this particular demonstration would be most successful with a couple.

I chose the man for the 'died' and the woman for the 'survived'. The beauty of this routine is that for most of it they have no real idea what is going on and are intrigued with the props and the premise. The guests were fascinated with the pictures and at times chipped in facts and details about the Titanic, so it really did become a group effort. The final sets of revelations can be done in a really nice slow fashion as you show each photograph and how they have been amazingly separated. You can finish by picking up the pace a bit to increase the sense of impossibility of the feat.

You then are left with a table full of totally examinable props. Lovely!

Superb product and well worth the expenditure.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jun 27, 2008 11:57AM)
Excellent review. Thanks.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 27, 2008 12:31PM)
Interesting review/experience with White Star here with a VERY GOOD presentation idea:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=264438&forum=15
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 27, 2008 12:44PM)
I ordered, sounds too good not to have and use.

After reading the few reviews here, I see this as being perhaps usable in situations where "From Hell" might be too graphic....like when kids are around, or dinner has just been served.

I'm looking forward to getting a hold of "White Star".
Message: Posted by: DrTodd (Jun 27, 2008 08:41PM)
Yes, it is less gruesome than From Hell and comes with multiple methods, each of which can be applied to From Hell anyway, so it is good to have!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 27, 2008 09:20PM)
Well, between Dr. Todd and Abraxus (see Penny forum) - I sent in my moolah today! The evidence is mounting this is a must have for a mizarrist!
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Jun 28, 2008 07:13AM)
Yep...just placed my order...
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jun 28, 2008 02:47PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-27 13:44, silverking wrote:
After reading the few reviews here, I see this as being perhaps usable in situations where "From Hell" might be too graphic....like when kids are around, or dinner has just been served.
[/quote]

Yep, that sold me SilverKing... as much I like "From Hell" the darn kids seem to be around so often at dinner parties lately.

Now lets retreat into a cloud of smoke where we will congratulate each other on being masters of the universe.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 29, 2008 08:56AM)
Sorry if this sounds snappy or terse, its not meant to be - but really, the price is immaterial in some ways...maybe if you're just going to perform for friends and family - then have a think about needing it...

but if you're performing (and I only do after dinner small close up gigs) - then it's going to more than pay for itself after the one gig I'd hope! and then any repeat gigs (i got another 2 from the 8 people I performed it for this week)...

I know what you mean about splashing out on stuff, I'd rather laugh at how rubbish something is after I bought it, then buy just plain old mediocrity and just feel empty inside! at least when you buy absolute rubbish you can have a giggle over it...
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 29, 2008 09:16AM)
It doesn't sound snappy or terse at all. As a matter of fact I think you're pretty much dead on. But let me offer up just a few thoughts on why I asked so many questions up front.

Price is but one thing I consider when I purchase an effect. Sadly, the current state of marketing in our field has rendered me (and presumably a few others) totally jaded when it comes to purchasing "new and improved" effects:

1) "The Marketing Blurb" - I never believe what I read simply because I've been let down 100% of the time on any given effect I've removed from my mail box and opened. Not 100% let down, just let down 100% of the time.

2) "Unsolicited reviews from the creators best friends" - The nature of the internet is that one can release an effect, and before any normal person has even had a chance to take delivery of it there are half a dozen reviews from the creators best pals declaring how "brilliant" the effect is. (of course mentioning they're associated with the effects creator is overlooked).
These reviews are always a part of the equation, but they're not reviews I take seriously when I consider an effect.

3) Price - The pricing in general in magic and mentalisim makes no sense, and often fails to clearly indicate the value of an effect or method.
Often I take delivery of an effect which I feel was worth 3 or 4 times what I paid for it, and just as often I take delivery of an effect which is worth nothing.

I find that the amount of money changing hands is no indication of how "good" something is. In the case of White Star, I feel the need to explore exactly WHY it's twice as much as "Split Reality".
Is it because "Split Reality" is underpriced, or is it because "White Star" is overpriced?

"Split Reality" is (IMHO) brilliantly conceived, and playing the photos at 8X10 makes it suitable for most any stand up situation. I've also printed them in a smaller size for close up.
"Split Reality" provides unbelievable value. "White Star" is double the price (more with shipping and the inevitable extra $50.00 or $60.00 spent on ebay picking up add-ons.

Why?

Laminated cards professionally printed in the number provided don't amount to more than $10.00 OEM. What is the cause of the price being double?

In the end we find out from the distributor that it's both quality props AND method you're essentially paying for........That they are applying a sizable cost to the method and passing that on to the end user I can understand, and it was a piece of important information that didn't come out until a bit of pressure was applied in the form of a few forward questions directed at the distributor.

In the end I found out enough about the effect to determine that (for me) the "cost to benefit" fell within a range that made a purchase worthwhile. I'm already another $65.00 in the hole on ebay on extra props for "White Star", so this one is currently around $125.00 total.

Price matters, and research is free...........but I totally understand your point abraxus. For full time professional workers, (which I'm not) different measures are put to an effect.

(it was actually your post that was the final bit of convincing for me to buy :) )
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Jun 29, 2008 12:15PM)
Good points Silverking.'Splitting the difference' can be done with photos and is in the May 2005 edition of 'Genii' cost? $5.00.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jun 29, 2008 01:24PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-29 09:56, abraxus wrote:
Sorry if this sounds snappy or terse, its not meant to be - but really, the price is immaterial in some ways...maybe if you're just going to perform for friends and family - then have a think about needing it...
...
[/quote]


Abraxus

If the reason for purchasing an item is for the purpose of adding a new routine, agreed.

BUT, if the purpose is to look and see if there are any new ideas or concepts that differ from what you already do, curiosity, then cost/benefit becomes a serious consideration. And basing a decision on this does not lessen one's stature as a performer.

I do agree that the presentation angle on this is interesting, but I am not impartial (based on my own published and unpublished work on this theme).

Tony
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jun 30, 2008 04:53AM)
Nice posts gentlemen!

Indeed it depends on why you purchase an item. I already perform OOTW (not that much these days however, seperating reds and blacks sounds a bit stupid to me... anyway...) and could easily use old photographs to perform it with another plot...

I'm eager to read a review comparing White Star and Split Reality!
Message: Posted by: Titanas (Jun 30, 2008 07:37AM)
Just placed my order,
Can't wait.
Message: Posted by: Ezzet (Jul 1, 2008 08:30AM)
Ok here it goes. Be gentle with me since this is my first review ever.

Effect - White star
Ranking 1-5

Diffuculty 1 for the main method
Quality of props ( photographs) 4
Written instructions 5

Well first of all White star does exactly what the add says. Which we all know all adds don't. The only issue I have with the add is the line where it says the performer takes out photographs from his wallet. Well unless you are a woman with a big purse I cant really see that to be realistic. The thickness of all the 28 photographs is just slighly thinner than a pack of playing cards. So I cant really se anyone walking around with that in their wallet.

Diffuculty - 1

There are many different methods included on how you can accomplish the effect, and the main one is really easy as it should be with an effect like this that relies heavely on story and presentation. To be honost I don't know that many OOTW methods - just a few - but I have never seen this one before. I have yet to try it but it looks great. However I don't think anyone should buy this effect because of the main method. One of the reasons is because the handling only makes sense with photographs.

Quality of props - 4

Well what can I say. Really nice thicker glossy card stock. The photos looks really authentic and the stories to each photo is fascinating to read. You can see that a lot of work has been put into these. The only thing that makes me not give it a 5 is that eventually they will wear out, although not in the near future. I will scan my photographs so I don't have to buy new ones once they wear out. If you laminate the photos they will last you a long long time.

Written instructions - 5

This is really well written instructions. Compared to many other effects ive bought, especially packet tricks these really stand out. Not only do you get the main method with different handlings. Easy ones and more diffucult ones. You also get three different OOTW versions called beyond this world. Since I don't know to many OOTW versions it was a really nice suprise to get Jims three versions of his Beyond this world. Im sure I will put at least on of them to use.


To conclude I will say that I'm really happy that ive bought this effect and it will go straight into my close up act. Although my exceptations regarding the main method was higher there is no such thing as the holy grail. Since I'm only a hobbyist sure the price is not cheap, but to me it was worth it. For me it was the story and the photographs you paid for. Not the method that some have pointed out. If you don't like this story and have no need for these photographs and you have OOTW methods you already like and can adapt to photographs then this is not for you. I know a lot of people want to know the difference between this and split reality. Without revealing to much I will say I'm glad I got both. The same method Split reality use is covered in White Star also, and is probably the version I will use for White Star. However for parlour or stage I will use Split reality. Split reality has the best and most natural presentation ive seen.

Well that's it if someone wants to know more please feel free to ask. Since this is my first review it would be nice with some feedback. Since english is not my native language I hope you'll understand anyway.

Ezzet
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 1, 2008 09:06AM)
Hi Ezzet !

Thank you for your nice review! It really goes deep into what we all want to know and gives us a good idea of what you get.


Just a few questions though: I thought Dominic said the photographs were laminated (or maybe I misunderstood)… You seem to say they’re not… So? Are they?

Just for confirmation: the blurb says that the magician never touches the cards (no switches, no packet changes). How true is that?

Finally, did I understand right that if I can perform White Star, I will also be able to perform Split Reality? But the contrary is not true apparently...?


I do like the story, but I already have other OOTW versions, that’s why I’d like to know if it’s really worth it for me… If the answers are exposing too much, don’t answer them or PM me!

Thanks again!

Ben
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 1, 2008 09:14AM)
Just a further thing: you said that your "expectations regarding the main method were higher". Could you tell us why?

Cheers!
Message: Posted by: Ezzet (Jul 1, 2008 09:33AM)
I will try to answer your questions the best I can. First to me the photos are not laminated as I would call it. If they are its a very thin layer. Not like for example Dice man by Any Nyman.

For the method its true that there are no switches or packet changes. However the magician have to touch the photos in all versions. Ive read the add and it doesn't say anywhere that the magician never touches the cards. However now that ive read the add again it might be a little misleading because the main version they speak of the spectators cant mix the photographs. But later in the features it says the spectators can mix the photgraph, which is true but then its not the same method as it is describes in the add. So like I said earlier its not the Holy grail and the add is after all a little misleading if you read the features and think all of that can be accomplished by the main method.

If you have split reality you could perform White star but not using the main method White star uses, which in my opinon is neither better or worse. If you have White Star you could also perform Split reality since the method Split reality uses is covered in White Star. But of course you wouldnt know which one unless you have Split reality.

Like I said earlier I love them both. But for Titanic you pay for the Cards and the story, and for split reality you pay for the wonderful and in depth presentation and I would say a little also for the method bacause I had never seen that method before and I like it alot. Since I bought split reality first that's where I learned Split realitys method first, even though that method is covered in White star its not the main method.

Well hope this helps a little more even though its hard to explain everything in print.

Ezzet
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 1, 2008 10:12AM)
Thank you Ezzet! Really, your answer was really clear!
It's indeed not stated in the ad that the magician never touches the cards, but I think I read it somewhere on a thread... But I guess for the spec, it's AS IF the magician never touched the cards...

Thanks then for your contribution, I do think I will order White Star!

A great day to you!
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jul 1, 2008 12:04PM)
Thanks for the excellent review Ezzet.

The cards are indeed laminated. However, they are done professionally using a similar process as the one used to produce new Bicycle Playing Cards, so have a lamination coating. This looks different than if you put them through a heat sealing lamination machine, which creates a plastic edge ( bit like security/id cards etc)
The quality lamination doubled the production cost, but increases the life of the cards many times over. If you wanted too, you could always plastic seal laminate them to make them indestructable, but I think that would look a bit 'home-made'. because they are old images, even after a lot of use, they will look good by being a bit worn out, as it adds character to them.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 2, 2008 01:39AM)
Ok... I placed my order. Hope I won't regret it. I may give a small review to confirm what has been said already!
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jul 2, 2008 02:09AM)
Received 'White Star' today..

Fantastic routine, you can really hook them in with this presentation and as stated before, the photos are very authentic and the info on the back will really enable a interestig and engaging set piece... oh and it's propless and self working, I have not yet road tested this but I know it will play very well.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 2, 2008 03:20AM)
Good, good, good!
I really hope it's not something I already know...
From what I read I don't think so though.
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Jul 3, 2008 07:55PM)
I love the idea of a Titanic theme and will be picking this up. Storytelling potential just seems so strong. I'm getting the idea you end up with 3 piles of photo's. How many usually end up in the mixed pile and how is the mixed pile explained? Many thanks
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jul 4, 2008 03:26AM)
Tried this today on a magic buddy and guess what... he had no idea!!

Best of all I mentioned it's based on OOTW but he still did not know how it happened..

For those of you who have this, I used the 'White Star re-visited version' and even though I only had my magic buddy (not TWO spectators as usually required), the method still went unoticed.

I must admit when I first read the method I said to myself this would never work, as I feared the very simple & bold method would be picked up on, but now I can see just how 'fair' everything seems and how the spectators really feel like they make all the decisons.

What a fantastic product, I can't wait to use it at my next show
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 4, 2008 07:29AM)
When performing 'White Star Re-Visited' you could have the participants mix the photographs if you wish.
Once familiar with this version, the performer need never touch the photographs throughout the whole effect.
As suggested on another thread here on the Café, as the effect approaches it's conclusion, I state that I recently bought the photographs from the Souvenir Shop at the Merseyside Maritime Museum in Liverpool, the other artifacts however are genuine belongings from the Titanic. I have bought an early 20th Century style fountain pen from a local Antique Shop for £1, won on e-bay, a 1912 silver 'Threepence' coin and a very old English soft leather playing card case to keep the photographs in, 99p each. For under a fiver including p+p I am chuffed that I have been able to add an extra bit authenticty to this nice historically themed routine.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Jul 4, 2008 07:51AM)
How similiar in method is it to John Kennedys?
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 4, 2008 02:36PM)
Hi Christoper, long time no speak. I hope you are well.
I have not seen the John Kennedy version so I am unable to comment but 'White Star', 'White Star-Revisited' and the three versions of 'Beyond This World' contained within the 21 page booklet, are all two participant variants of OOTW with the awkward move eliminated.
The quality of the 28 laminate finish photocards, explanations, comments, history and credits provided are excellent value.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 4, 2008 04:47PM)
Two spectators? Man... I missed that... Is it like Greg Rostami's Cosmos then?
Can't it be performed one on one?
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Jul 4, 2008 05:59PM)
Hi Caigy, In the credits section is there mention of a trick called 'Red and Black? by John Kennedy? I too am interested in purchasing 'White Star'.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 4, 2008 06:53PM)
Markymark and Christopher,
I have just looked through the credits again and indeed John Kennedy's 'Red And Black' is mentioned as a similar card routine. As I am unfamiliar with Kennedy's effect, I cannot say how similar it actually is, or to which version of 'White Star' or 'Beyond This World' it is similar too.
Both versions of 'White Star' certainly don't even have a sniff of being a card trick. The three versions of 'Beyond This World' do, because they are. I hope this helps.

goldeneye007,
I think bond19 (is there an Ian Flemming theme here?) mentioned in an earlier post, that he performed it one on one but this may not have been through choice and his buddy was possibly playing the part of two participants.
I suppose you could but there doesn't seem much point...I think you will agree when yours arrives.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jul 5, 2008 03:20AM)
Caidy,

You're right, I was just testing this routine out on a magic buddy and therfore it was done one on one (not with two people as required).
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 5, 2008 03:50AM)
Thanks for your answer Paul! I can't wait for mine to arrive!

Ben
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Jul 5, 2008 06:03AM)
It is tempting...Paul, can you provide links to where you got your extras? Think I would purchase if I could find the extras to match my persona

Thanks
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 5, 2008 10:43AM)
Christoper I have just e-mailed you some info with pics.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 6, 2008 09:49AM)
I just saw my order was shipped July 2nd.
I hope it's not the same method as Cosmos... It doesn't seem to be, but I really hope it's not. I'll give my feelings once I receive it!

Cheers!
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jul 11, 2008 05:34PM)
I have a fantastic presentational idea using the White Star Revisited method with a 'Movie Star / Oscars' theme...
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 11, 2008 06:23PM)
The 'White Star Revisited' method is definitely worth the little extra practice and familiarity required...a real gem.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jul 11, 2008 07:38PM)
Got mine today - yep, it was worth it - the wonderful WS revisted is so common-sense brilliant you'll smack yourself in the head... you can predict the method as you read through the book by reading the earlier creative process.... a fun read - a great story - good crediting - innovative methods... nice props... and now I got to practice!

This is great for pre-full seance where you are "mediumizing" the participants to be attuned to the spirit world...

There are some nice new touches for making an OOTW much easier and more logical and flowing....

And it again is a Living or Dead test - and despite people often shying away from such effects.... mankind is fascinated by such things...

Bravo!

Of course, one can make ESP symbols or other things besides living dead...

You could also make up larger old photos and make this parlour/stage with the same principles...

But the current presentation begs for intimate gatherings....

The only way to do any effect after this is to raise the dead otherwise don't bother...a great way to do an ending or a single effect....

One thing that I thought could add to make the photos more authentic is having really aged them and have handwritten note of name and dead or survived.... JC explains he originally was going to do that but his friend said to put the details on the cards of the person's life - I personally think having a separate document with the names on the lists of survivors or those who died and have the details there on a few aged pieces of paper from a journal from one of the survivors of the disaster might work well too... as the photos are interesting in that who made them and why.... I can see a survivor who wracked with guilt begins to develop a fascination with contacting the dead etc. and consults with mediums etc. and collected the photos... and poured so much psychic energy into whatever he/she was doing that the photos are a gateway to the other world... but as they stand now, they look modern...

Likely I'm just splitting hairs as the specs might never ask such a question - but in terms of contextualization, I think I'll try the above.

All in all, I give this a 9.5/10 (the .5 off only because of the minor quible of what the origin of the cards are... and I'd like it more "organic")....

Keep 'em coming!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Jul 11, 2008 08:49PM)
I've been playing around with this - love it. One idea came to mind I thought I'd throw out there, as kind of a kicker to it all (not that it needs it).

Ron Wilson has an OOTW found in Uncanny Scot where a prediction card is set aside before the routine begins. Afterward, it's found that the spectator made 3 mistakes. The card set aside at the beginning is the 3 of clubs. So that got me thinking...

The two spectators do their thing, and when the photos are turned over, it's found that a total of 3 misses occurred (or whatever number you want to shoot for).

There has been an envelope on the table from the beginning. You explain that it's a copy of a letter from the clerk who first compiled the Survivor/Dead passenger list (you explain that the original goes for thousands of dollars). It's a short "cover letter" that was written for a revised passenger list. In the cover letter, the clerk explains that although he made every attempt to assure accuracy, in the confusion of the days after the sinking, a few mistakes were made in compiling the list. Two passengers originally listed as Survivors in fact are dead, and one thought to be dead has survived.

Just a thought...
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Jul 11, 2008 10:17PM)
That's a great approach Mr Mindbender. I've ordered white star and am waiting for it. I've also just bought Ron Wilson's The Uncanny Scot so when that arrives I'll be looking up the routine you mentioned. Hmmmmm, it seems you foresaw future events for me Mr Mindbender!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jul 12, 2008 10:36AM)
Mr.MB - that is brilliant!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Jul 12, 2008 01:10PM)
Thanks...

Inventing new ideas -- that's a tough one for me. Finding ways to combine a couple great ideas...much easier. But that's a different thread. :)
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 12, 2008 01:11PM)
I love the clerk's letter idea Mr.Minbender - a copy of the original list, written with the very fountain pen which has been used as one of the markers...Brilliant.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Mystic Monk (Jul 12, 2008 01:59PM)
Hello everyone I apologise for not posting on here before now but I didn’t want to appear that I was encouraging people to buy White Star. You have no idea how thrilled I am that everyone is enjoying it. I love the performance ideas people are coming up with.
It’s great to read the reactions you are getting, don’t you just love the explanations spectators have for why what happened, happend. I realise it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I have had so much fun with it and I hope you all will.

Jim Critchlow
Message: Posted by: Marc Spelmann (Jul 12, 2008 04:26PM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-11 21:49, Mr. Mindbender wrote:
I've been playing around with this - love it. One idea came to mind I thought I'd throw out there, as kind of a kicker to it all (not that it needs it).

Ron Wilson has an OOTW found in Uncanny Scot where a prediction card is set aside before the routine begins. Afterward, it's found that the spectator made 3 mistakes. The card set aside at the beginning is the 3 of clubs. So that got me thinking...

The two spectators do their thing, and when the photos are turned over, it's found that a total of 3 misses occurred (or whatever number you want to shoot for).

There has been an envelope on the table from the beginning. You explain that it's a copy of a letter from the clerk who first compiled the Survivor/Dead passenger list (you explain that the original goes for thousands of dollars). It's a short "cover letter" that was written for a revised passenger list. In the cover letter, the clerk explains that although he made every attempt to assure accuracy, in the confusion of the days after the sinking, a few mistakes were made in compiling the list. Two passengers originally listed as Survivors in fact are dead, and one thought to be dead has survived.

Just a thought...
[/quote]

A lovely thought though...

MS
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 17, 2008 05:09PM)
Hi goldeneye007 has yours landed yet?
If so, how are you getting on with it and are there any similarities to 'Cosmos'?
Any other reviews/ideas from you chaps?

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Lumas (Jul 17, 2008 06:08PM)
I just got this the other day and I have read through about half of it. My only issue are with the photographs. They are nice and all, but I would have liked for the writing on the back of them to be more of a script style. Also, I would have preferred if the photographs were pasted on some hard type of paper with the writing on back of that instead of the photos themselves.

I had From Hell v3. I think it cost less than White Star. The quality that went into From hell was amazing. It was one of the most beautiful effects I have ever seen. On the other hand, White Star contains regular photos with a normal computer font on back.

If I had to rate White Star, the highest I would give it is a 6.5 out of 10 just because of the photos. Most of the photos are cut well, but there are a few that aren't cut properly and have white borders on one side or the other.

This was really worth about $40 max. I cannot say it is worth $70 after seeing From Hell, which cost less, and was beautifully produced.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jul 18, 2008 01:25AM)
I do so admire the thinking behind this old OOTW classic and think it is well worth the price tag.

Dr. Specktor's reaction above is the one to trust. The value here is on the printed page.
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Jul 18, 2008 08:43AM)
Lumas,
I think your being a bit picky about they typeface used on the reverse of the White Star cards. As a designer, I find the style acceptable.
Also, just a thought, did you cough up for versions 1 and 2 of From Hell as many people did. Must have added up to more than $70.
Message: Posted by: Lumas (Jul 18, 2008 08:47AM)
No, I only bought v3.

Don't get me wrong. White Star is great, and I plan on using it many times, however, I was just comparing the photo quality to that of From Hell v3. The level of quality is worlds apart. That is all I am saying.

The font, the white background, the off center cuts, the tops of people's heads being cut off, and no paper backing were my issues with the quality of White Star.

Again, great effect, but I would have liked for the quality to be on par with From Hell v3 as White Star costs more and the quality of photos is significantly less.

I recommend the product to anyone. The photos are good. They are acceptable, but again, they are nowhere close to the level of quality of From Hell's v3 photographs. I only wish White Star would have cost $40 or $50 as the photo quality is not worth $70 when compared to From Hell v3, which cost about $60.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jul 18, 2008 10:14AM)
Lumas's analysis of the effect "White Star" is accurate.
(Unfortunately, I CAN'T recommend it for purchase as he has).

It's a $40.00 effect being sold for $75.00.

It's a good effect, and I'll use it, but the cost vs. what gets delivered to your mailbox (INCLUDING the method) is far too high.

White Star is no where close to "From Hell" in terms of quality. The "From Hell" props stand head and shoulders above "White Star". The photos in "From Hell" are prepared as were photos from the era. "White Star" sports photos that look nothing like anything that was produced in or around 1912.
They look like what they are, "sort of" laminated computer photos.

These aren't what many folks actually call "laminated cards", they're not in laminating pouches. Rather they look like they're printed in full sheets, those sheets are laminated on both sides, and then the cards are cut.
This leaves laminations on the front and back, but not on any of the four sides, which are exposed paper and will get dirty eventually.
The cards ARE NOT all cut square, and THAT is also an issue that affects pride of ownership.

The computer font IS an issue. Posting that you don't think it's an issue is fine, but the premise of a bunch of cards that don't look of the appropriate vintage, are laminated in a style that exposes their edges, and sporting a computer font on their backs is a premise that isn't worth $75.00.

Look, it's an effect in a genre of "living and dead" type tests with photos that was popularized by Derren Brown with his "The Undertaker" effect on TV, but "White Star" was initially sold with the distributor stating the HIGH price was due to the high quality props.........BUT, the props are not of that high of a quality to consider $75.00 an appropriate price.

........Then the effect was then marketed with the statement that the high price was for the method. To be frank the method is fine, but it's NOT new for those knowledgeable of card handling, and a few methods offerred depend FAR TOO HEAVILY on "peeking" the cards, or "marking" the cards.
I'm basically a card guy, so peeking isn't a problem for me..........but it ISN'T a method that I would call the "best" method for a "living and dead" type of effect........it's just "A" method, one of many.

Dr. Spektor knows of what he speaks, and I respect his opinion. I will however have to disagree with him on this effect.
It's overpriced and lacking in the high quality expected of a $75.00 effect to the point that I would NOT recommend it for purchase.
The method alone (or multiple methods, mostly derivative of each other) is not worth $75.00.

AT $40.00 or $45.00, I'd consider this a great purchase. At $75.00 I got exactly what I was afraid I'd get when I pressed the seller for details a month or so ago on various elements of the effect, and none of those details were forthcoming, OR detailed.
In other words, I got......a stack of mid-quality cards, and a method that is far from revolutionary, and which depends on peeks or marks to overcome discrepancies which are typical for an OOTW card handling.

I'll use this in situations where "From Hell" would be considered inappropriate, but consider "From Hell" and "Split Reality" to be far better value for the dollar spent to purchase them, and consider the methods in both to be equal or superior to the method(s) employed in "White Star".

All of that said, I DO now own the effect, and have purchased the additional props suggested for the effect. I've also picked up a period newspaper with the "1500 Dead at Sea" heading on it, and a piece of the RMS Titanic coal (the only item recovered from the wreck that is legal to own) to further the discussion after the effect is complete.

I have used it, and got good results with it.
(I should point out that I found using it with the "Split Reality" type of handling gave best results.)

If I knew in advance what I know now, I WOULDN'T purchase this effect. But I did purchase this effect, and as a result of that, I'll continue to use it.
It's just not worth $75.00...........and wouldn't be (IMHO) appropriately priced at anything above $40.00, including all shipping costs.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 18, 2008 12:06PM)
Lumas, you may want to contact Jim Critchlow (posted on this thread as Mystic Monk) the creator of 'White Star', regarding the quality of the photo-cards you received, they could well be a duff batch. Mine are perfectly cut and nothing is off centre, front or back.
Silverking, I agree with you that the props and premise of 'From Hell' are very, very good but the subject matter, blood and gore isn't to everyone's taste.
The photo-cards supplied with 'White Star' are not supposed to be passed off as original photographs from the early 1900's, they are modern day reproductions with a modern day biographical synopsis as to the fate of some of the passengers printed on the back...as shown in the advertisement for this effect.
I have stated in earlier posts that my preferred method is 'White Star Revisited' and will reiterate that with a little practice and familiarity there is no need whatsoever for 'peeking' or 'marking' the mixed photo-cards.
I am more than pleased with my purchase and the reactions it receives...well worth thirty quid.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Jul 18, 2008 03:37PM)
Calgy, I have to agree with you; the cards are NOT supposed to be of the Titanic period, but a modern effect based on the tragic event. So why do we need 'scripty' fonts on the back? It seems to have sold like hot cakes, so I suppose there are a lot of SATISFIED customers out there.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Vincent.Lynch (Jul 18, 2008 04:29PM)
I personally like the photographs because they are small, having said that I've decided to start carrying less props, so I've lent this effect to a mentalist friend of mine.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jul 18, 2008 05:21PM)
Some appear to be missing the point.

The "White Star" photos, WHATEVER VINTAGE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FROM are lacking in the quality one sees in "From Hell".

It's not an opinion, it's a simple fact.

Anybody owning both effects just needs to put the "From Hell" and "White Star" down side by side, and the difference in quality literally jumps off the table.

This calls into question whether $70.00 is offers a good value in this type of an effect.

Being as these are subjective opinions being offered, there is NO "right or wrong".

I feel the effect offers poor value..........that is a simple, truthful, and factual opinion.

"White Star" is a good effect, but terribly overpriced.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jul 18, 2008 09:51PM)
Heck, its hard for me to say if an effect is worth $40 or $70 because now a days its like the price of gasoline :)

The reason I thought it was worth it to me was 1) I was not totally ripped off like some people's products 2) I actually got the product (unlikes ome other people's products) 3) I actually got some neat cards (which as mentioned, I likely won't use but are useful for me to consider the way they are used and info on them).... 4) an ebook for $35 with one method for OOTW variation was given rave reviews.... 5) others have said (if you believe them) like Dr T and Iain of their successes... and shared some nice gems....

So, I will revise - is it worth $70? I dunno - but I didn't go into a blind rage once I got it!

As mentioned (as the others have) in my own way - for me, I'd want genuine period photos and transfer the info into authentic looking journal entries... but as mentioned that is just me.

From Hell is along those lines - and it is because of that I can't go less than that!

I do think there are some neat handling ideas that I haven't seen in any other version (such as the 14-Beard concept if you know what I mean - it isn't earth shattering but its those little bits that just keep adding into making OOTW/LD more and more smooth and killer)....

I actually am making a set of genuine period looking photos of people who either lived or died in a fire at Colney Hatch in the 1910s.... so that I can tie it into LUNA presentations... but the WS concepts (yes, not all new but again, some nice ways its all together) make it for me from a scholarly perspective useful.

Again, everyone is different and I can see the photos being used as is with the modern production just something one made after coming into possesion of the coin and pen - the coin and pen are the haunting forces!.... driving the presenter to create these modern cards!.... on a lighter note - it also makes it perhaps a shade less scary..... the more contextual connections to the past likely increases the effect into more LD>than OOTW....maybe

Oh well. I also just like collecting things too - hence I won't sell mine (unless I find I'm short for buying Peter's Witchboard :))
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jul 19, 2008 02:24AM)
HI Lumas

I'm sorry to hear that your not happy with the quality of the card set you recieved with Whitestar. I've checked with the shop and they have not had any feedback from you, so have not been able to put the issue right for you.

It sounds like you may have a faulty set. Can you PM me your contact details or better still call/email the shop http://www.magicshop.co.uk and the team will make sure that your looked after and the issue resolved for you.

Best wishes

Dominic
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jul 19, 2008 02:31AM)
Reading this thread. I'd pleased people are enjoying White Star as much as I am.

Its a good point about the images not being 'old'. I personally find that products that provide props that are supposed to be old, never really pull it off 100%. The props look fake no matter how well they are made, they just end up looking like reproductions and in some cases a bit 'tacky'. We decided not to go in that direction, and as the Titanic was a popular historical event, we felt it was better to design the image cards to look more like 'reference material' rather than something that they are not.


Within the routine/presentation Jim suggests, the cards are not supposed to be old. That's why you have the other props like an old coin or a pen. Those items are used to give that emotion of 'holding something from the past' and in doing so, being linked with it. Unlike the props, the cards are presented as modern bio's of the passangers.

It would also be odd if the cards were 'old', as they give the death dates each passanger including the survivors.

It was a personal decision, but I'm happy we went that way.

Best wishes

Dominic Reyes
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 19, 2008 05:08AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-17 18:09, caigy wrote:
Hi goldeneye007 has yours landed yet?
If so, how are you getting on with it and are there any similarities to 'Cosmos'?
Any other reviews/ideas from you chaps?

Paul Mc.
[/quote]
Hi there!
Mine just arrived this morning. I had a quick look and prefer to wait a little before giving a little review (a lot has already been said).

First impressions though: quality quite good (photos a bit too thick for me though - compeltely subjective point of view here); one method seems to be VERY similar to Cosmos, but if the method of Cosmos seems to be more fair, you cannot fail with WS as you could with Cosmos...

I'll give more precise thoughts later on!
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 19, 2008 05:33AM)
I just read the thread after Caigy's post I quoted and I quite agree with what Lumas and Silverking said concerning the quality of the photographs. We have so much been told that the high price was also to justify the quality of the photographs, so I was expecting nice real-looking photos... well imo it's not the case. My photos are also badly cut and I find them too thick. But they look quite ok when you only consider the picture.

It's a pity though to pay $70 for an effect which is supposed to have top quality props when I know will try to purchase real-looking photos (thinner and well-cut) and write myself the script at the back...

As for the method I haven't read through all the booklet, but again, one method is VERY close to Cosmos (in fact the global method is the same, but you don't get the info you need the same way: again Cosmos looks more fair - and you can be surrounded - but you might make mistakes with Cosmos; with WS you cannot go wrong, but you canno be surrounded).
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jul 19, 2008 06:41AM)
As promised the support forum for White Star has now been created.

http://www.streetsleights.co.uk

To access the White Star forum you will need some information from the cards.

We have started it off by adding some extras to download, that can go with your White Star Set, plus some ideas and tips from Jim and Karl Bartoni. More to follow in the forum shortly.

Hope this helps

Dominic Reyes
Message: Posted by: Lumas (Jul 19, 2008 06:51AM)
I want to add the Dominic and his staff over at magicshop have contacted me and are going to replace the pictures I had problems with. I can honestly say that I am a little happier now that for $70 my photos are all cut the same and have no white borders.

I still think the effect should have been priced a little bit less, but I will use this effect as is and enjoy it.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jul 19, 2008 07:20AM)
Hi Folks, Rob has raised an important point here and I'm REALLY pleased he has brought it to my attention.

It looks like approx 24 units of White Star have dispatched with a few cards that are mis cut and have a sleight white edge on one side. The cards are from a test sheets from the lamination company, that instead of being thrown out, were put back in with the proper sheets.

This has now been corrected, but should you hae recieved any miscut cards, please pop them back to us and we will replace them right away. We will also refund your return postage costs and include one of our free magic DVDs with the return as a goodwill gesture for the hassle.

I should point out that this will effect only 24 customers worldwide who have already purchased their set. All current stock is quality assured.

Best wishes

Dominic
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 19, 2008 07:21AM)
Goldeneye, you will be pleasantly surprised when you get to the 'White Star Revisited' section of your booklet, that you can perform it completely surrounded and never need touch the photo-cards should you not wish to.


Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Black Tiger (Jul 19, 2008 07:42AM)
Very interesting thread. I received White Star the other day; yes, it was not cheap, but I am happy that the contents of the package justify the price I paid. At the end of the day, you cannot please everyone and judging by the responses on this thread there are happy customers out there as well as not so happy customers. This is to be expected of just about any effect on the market you care to mention.

Like Lumas, a couple of my cards also have fine, white borders where the cutting has perhaps not been as accurate as it could have been. But in all honesty, I only noticed this upon close inspection and only after reading this thread. The white border only appears on two cards and are very fine (about half a millimetre in width); I do not see this as a problem at all and it does not bother me in the slightest. I certainly don't expect spectators to notice it, much less mention it. Additionally, my photos are not of exactly the same dimensions; they vary very slightly in size but, again, not enough of a difference to make it a problem for me and certainly not enough to have any adverse handling issues.

Overall, I am very pleased with the quality of the props, the method and its variations. As I've already mentioned, I am also happy with the price I paid for the package, which is more than I can say for many cheaper effects I have purchased over the years.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jul 19, 2008 10:57AM)
My photos are perfectly cut and centered. I think they look great. They have a very thin laminate, and handle nicely.

My only gripe about the trick is the Titantic theme. Maybe because the movie was so popular and I still can't get that song out of my head. ;-)

Seriously, I think this is a beautifully produced trick, and I'm sure it's a real crowd pleaser.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Ezzet (Jul 19, 2008 11:50AM)
I performed White star together with about 7 other tricks last week. White star was the most talked about and the effect people liked the most. I used an old english coin from 1898 and a very old key which I said was a cabinet key that one of the survivors had.

Ezzet
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Jul 19, 2008 12:00PM)
White Star VS From Hell?.........

White Star VS From Hell?.........

White Star VS From Hell?.........

Aaaarrrggggggghhhh........soo Confusing!
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Jul 19, 2008 01:18PM)
All those who like Jims White Star effect should keep their eyes peeled for his future releases,let me tell you this guy thinks outside the box for sure,he has some incredible ideas,we were discussing this effect today,its evolution etc and I can remember seeing many sessions with Jim and others where ideas were bandied about and honed...........
Hes a nice guy also,and is pleased his effect has made a few ripples..........
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 19, 2008 06:35PM)
Just a line - for those who may want to know - to say that I just checked and WS is not exactly the same as Cosmos in fact... It's quite similar but at the end there is no discard pile in Cosmos and each specatator has divided "his" pile into reds and blacks...

More from me later.
Message: Posted by: Black Tiger (Jul 20, 2008 02:59PM)
Does anyone know if the From Hell (version 3) photos can be used with the White Star method?
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jul 20, 2008 03:24PM)
They can be
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Jul 20, 2008 04:17PM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-19 06:08, goldeneye007 wrote:
[quote]
one method seems to be VERY similar to Cosmos, but if the method of Cosmos seems to be more fair, you cannot fail with WS as you could with Cosmos...

I'll give more precise thoughts later on!
[/quote]

From what I recall at least one presentation of Cosmos required a blatant switch of packets: so I hope it's not like that since no switch at anytime is advertised in White star.

rather my question is anyone who is familiar with Planet Earth from Paolo Cavalli [that can be TRULY performed without a single switch and with any pack of playing cards [or any kind of cards you want] if there is a similarity with that.

I ask because it seem to me the same method but if someone WHO OWN BOTH tell me its even better than that of Cavalli [which to me is the best method I know of up to now] I am sold and will buy this immediately
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Jul 20, 2008 07:50PM)
Anyone ??

c'mon I want to know if I can order this expecting it to be different than Planet Earth method:

please !!
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jul 21, 2008 03:06AM)
Hi PsiDroid

PM me with a description of 'The Planet Earth' method (we don't stock that item) and I will be happy to PM you back with a full answer.

Hope this helps

Dominic
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 21, 2008 04:42AM)
Yes, true PsiDroid, I forgot to mention this (bad mistake from me, sorry about that), but there is indeed a switch in Cosmos and there is none in WS.

I performed WS this week-end quite a few times, and... well... surprisingly it works very good!! I say "surprisingly" because I cannot understand why a 6-year old kid doesn't understand the normal version... Don't misunderstand me, it plays extraordinary well!! Like I said it's a bit like Cosmos, but with a discard pile. At first I told myself: "bah, a discard pile...", but in fact it adds a lot to the effect!!!

I tried it on my girlfriend who knows quite a few things and she was literally fried!

You could even do it a second time in a row using the advanced method (which doesn't mean it's more difficult), and then the smart 6-year old kid who might have understood, won't understand tanything the second time (I hope... ;) ).

I was a little disappointed at first because I thought there was something VERY intelligent in the effect before receiving it... well I wouldn't say that now. In fact I can't understand that nobody ever thought about this before. But the very strong point of the effect is really the presentation. And I don't only mean the idea of the Titanic. Ok, it's already a good idea, but it's the whole thing that makes it work extremely well. Every magician knows that it's better for him (in most cases), when the audience doesn't know what is going to happen (yes I know I'm not saying anything new here...). And everything is built quite well here when you read between the lines.

All in all I quite agree with silverking's post on page 4. It sure is one of several methods you can use, maybe it's not the best, but it sure isn't the worst, far from it.

Am I satisfied? Considering the effect alone, quite. Is it really new? Well... Yes and no. If I had seen the effet performed live, I really think I would have guessed the workings of it without difficulty, like most of you. So I would have bought old photographs and the effect would probably have cost me less than $40 including an old pen an a coin. BUT, you have several methods explained in the booklet, so I would only have seen one (ok they ARE quite similar, but they're worth reading). Will I perform it? Sure! Is it too expensive? Well... you really pay for the idea here, and of course creators have to get paid so that we have things to perform.

All the same I wouldn't have priced the effect over $50. It IS a good effect, but the quality we have been so much talked about was not in my package: my photographs are not square cut and are not centered (apparently this problem has been solved). But I don't know if I'll bother selecting the photos (probably one third to one half of them, maybe more), putting them in an appropriate package, going to the post-office, send them back and wait another ten to fifteen days before receiving the new ones. I'll think about it.

Cheers!
Message: Posted by: Mark Elsdon (Jul 21, 2008 04:43AM)
Hi PsiDroid,

I own both. I have used Paolo's (or, perhaps more accurately, Ted K.'s) clever methodology very successfully for several years. It is truly ingenious and very practical.

It is also completely different to the various progressive methods offered in White Star.

I have been using White Star continuously since it was released and can confirm that it leaves nothing to be desired in terms of audience reaction.

Regarding other points made in this thread:

The photos are what they are - modern professional prints of some old photos, with some info printed on the back. Are they works of art? No, but they would have looked out of place if they were. They are meant to be photos and that is exactly what they are.

A note regarding price: £30 is perfectly acceptable for White Star. When buying a magic trick, you are buying an EFFECT, so trying to work out how much the photos cost, comparing them to photos from another trick that costs less, wondering how much the booklets cost to print etc. is all irrelevant. There are MANY other factors at play in the pricing of a trick (not that it is anyone's business, but things like how much did the company pay the creator? how much are they investing in marketing?) that all have a direct bearing on the price.

Also, of course, Dominic is running a business to make a profit, so is free to charge what he thinks the market will bear. As I have written in another thread regarding one of my own tricks, if you think that the price of a trick is too high, then you are free to vote with your wallet...

Finally, something for potential US purchasers to bear in mind: it’s not so long ago that the US dollar was worth $1.50 against the GB pound. Now that it is worth around $2.00 all the tricks, books and DVDs you buy from UK dealers are costing you considerably more. This isn’t the fault of the dealers, but your economy.

You’ll be pleased to know, however, that all the UK magicians who for years have paid too much for US-released tricks and books are very happy to see this current redress :)

Cheers,

Mark Elsdon
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 21, 2008 04:54AM)
Just a note concerning my last post: when I said that I "couldn't understand that nobody ever thought about this before", well, first, there you go nobody did (I mean until recently, if you consider Split Reality which seems to be close); and second, it's perhaps because of the simplicity of the workings that it's indeed a good trick and that nobody thought about doing this.

Considering the price, it's a difficult matter and I don't want to go too deep into this but: yes, you also pay for the concept and the creator's work (already said that in my previous post), but when I say it' a little overpriced, it's first because I was told the photos were of great quality (again they now seem to be) and second, it's regarding other methods that already exist... I quite agree with what you said actually Mark, but, for example, when you consider a leaflet on the CT, it can cost you $20 (I'm not from the US btw), but the reactions I get when using this are amongst the strongest I get...

Again, I don't want to go into a long conversation concerning this and there are arguments to justify the price and sure it's an open economy, so people do what they want; it's just MY impression, regarding other things on the market (and yes there ARE crapy tricks that cost maybe more than $100) that it's a bit too expensive, that's all.

Cheers!

Ben
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jul 21, 2008 09:59AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-21 05:43, Mark Elsdon wrote:

A note regarding price: £30 is perfectly acceptable for White Star.
(not that it is anyone's business, but things like how much did the company pay the creator? how much are they investing in marketing?) that all have a direct bearing on the price.
[/quote]
It may be too obvious to point out that this is YOUR opinion.

MY opinion is that the effect is terribly overpriced, and doesn't represent good value. I have "White Star", "From Hell", and "Split Reality"......and for Café posters to directly compare these effects in terms of cleverness of method, quality of props, clarity of instructions, etc IS EXACTLY WHAT THE Café IS ALL ABOUT.

Also, telling folks on the Café that "It's not their business" to discuss how much a given effect is being sold for, and whether it represents good value to the end user does nothing more than make you look like a shill for the manufacturer.

Post your opinion, but refrain from trying to tell me what it's "my business" to talk about and not talk about on the Café.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Jul 21, 2008 10:05AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-21 05:43, Mark Elsdon wrote:
Hi PsiDroid,

I own both. I have used Paolo's (or, perhaps more accurately, Ted K.'s) clever methodology very successfully for several years. It is truly ingenious and very practical.

It is also completely different to the various progressive methods offered in White Star.

I have been using White Star continuously since it was released and can confirm that it leaves nothing to be desired in terms of audience reaction.

Regarding other points made in this thread:

The photos are what they are - modern professional prints of some old photos, with some info printed on the back. Are they works of art? No, but they would have looked out of place if they were. They are meant to be photos and that is exactly what they are.

A note regarding price: £30 is perfectly acceptable for White Star. When buying a magic trick, you are buying an EFFECT, so trying to work out how much the photos cost, comparing them to photos from another trick that costs less, wondering how much the booklets cost to print etc. is all irrelevant. There are MANY other factors at play in the pricing of a trick (not that it is anyone's business, but things like how much did the company pay the creator? how much are they investing in marketing?) that all have a direct bearing on the price.

Also, of course, Dominic is running a business to make a profit, so is free to charge what he thinks the market will bear. As I have written in another thread regarding one of my own tricks, if you think that the price of a trick is too high, then you are free to vote with your wallet...

Finally, something for potential US purchasers to bear in mind: it’s not so long ago that the US dollar was worth $1.50 against the GB pound. Now that it is worth around $2.00 all the tricks, books and DVDs you buy from UK dealers are costing you considerably more. This isn’t the fault of the dealers, but your economy.

You’ll be pleased to know, however, that all the UK magicians who for years have paid too much for US-released tricks and books are very happy to see this current redress :)

Cheers,

Mark Elsdon
[/quote]


Hi Mark Elsdon

thank you very much. I am going to buy White Star then.

As for ted k. I should have mention that Cavalli as you know fully credit him and Curry for the idea however the methodology publishd by ted k. was in bascom jones' magick under red & black and was very different as effect because if I recall it was the performer who divided between red & black whereas in Cavalli Planet Earth effect are two participants that do the work. this is very different. and there is an OPTIONAL final kicker which you can use or not

a quick note - if you are interested in this kind of methods john Riggs has almost the same idea as ted k. in one of his beautiful dvds. don't know who came up first with this idea Riggs or ted k. or whoever before but all of you are strongly suggested [my opinion] to check all these effects.

Going to buy White Star now: thanks mark Elsdon& dominic Reyes for their help
Message: Posted by: Mark Elsdon (Jul 22, 2008 02:49AM)
Silverking wrote:

"Also, telling folks on the Café that "It's not their business" to discuss how much a given effect is being sold for, and whether it represents good value to the end user does nothing more than make you look like a shill for the manufacturer."

If you'll kindly re-read my post, you'll see that nowhere did I say that it's not anybody's business to discuss how much an effect is sold for. I fully agree with you that being able to do so and compare similar products is one of the primary reasons this section of the Café is so valuable.

What I did say is that it's not anybody's business how much a magic company pays a creator for the rights to their effect or how much of their marketing budget they invest in one particular trick. Why would these figures be the business of anyone not involved in that particular company?

I don't mind being wrong, but I hate being mis-quoted ;)

Never having met Dominic nor having had any dealings with him other than buying a couple of tricks from his company I don't think I qualify as a shill. It's a shame that you think it makes me look like I am, but as you pointed out in your post, "It may be too obvious to point out that this is YOUR opinion". Just that. I never shill for anyone.

So, let's get back to the topic. I, too, own all the similar effects discussed in this thread and use just 2 of them: Split Reality and White Star. Both play very strongly. PsiDroid, I think you will be happy with your purchase. Please PM once you have the trick and I will send you an extra handling I have and one or two other extra presentational ideas.

Cheers,

ME
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Jul 22, 2008 05:46AM)
Jim,

Are you enjoying all this?

Tony
Message: Posted by: Mystic Monk (Jul 25, 2008 06:52PM)
No not at all tony
I don’t like people falling out about my trick.
I just want people to enjoy it. I have had some fantastic reactions from it over the years. I think if people just go out and do it they will have the same response.
It may be like other effects but somehow it seems to be greater than the sum of its parts. It’s easy to do, it seems to capture people’s interest and I can honestly say no lay person has seen how it’s done.
I would love to hear some people recount their reactions good or bad. I have posted some ideas on Dominic’s web site, http://www.streetsleights.co.uk have a look at the idea about offering a photo to either spectator I think this could be very interesting.
Also has any one played with the last variation in the booklet where there are 3 piles of 3 different coloured backed cards at the end of the effect? I have found this to be great, although a bit fiddley

Jim Critchlow
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Jul 25, 2008 07:09PM)
I recently received White Star where I live in New York. It was worth teh short wait. It is a terrific effect with beauifully and professionally made photographs that with a little care will last you an extremely long time, if not for your lieftime. The instrucitonal booklet is detailed and thorough and provides several different methods. The most difficult part of this routine is to decide which version you should try first. The routine is logical and entertaining and very interesting to the participants/spectators. The photographs and routine are inherently interesting and would grab the attention of any spectator. IT is a wonderful effect with extremely well made photographs.

I have another type of effect that is perhaps similar to this one. White Star, at least for me, is far superior and much more interesting. But I do not want to "split" hairs.

Highly recommended.

Michael
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 27, 2008 04:25PM)
Hello again!

After quite a few performances, I can only admit that the reactions I've had with WS were simply extraordinary. It's probably because I think too much like a magician that I hardly can beleive the response that the effect has on spectators.

Really NO-ONE EVER had a clue how it was done. Most specators think that they were somehow influenced by the pictures... I only perform the first version because I don't really see why photos have to be "shuffled"... c'mon... ever shuffled photographs??? ;) And people are convinced anyway because of the third pile.

I repeat it again, but imo it's the context, the story, the atmosphere, that build the whole trick. Don't wait WS to be a magician fooler. In my experience it NEVER has been. But on the audiences I've had, it's just extraordinary for them. When I received it I didn't immediatly perform it. I tried it on relatives and the response I've had was such that I started performing it for a lot of people and they simply could not beleive what was happening.

I even performed it twice in a row, to the same audience (close relatives... I wouldn't have done it otherwise... and wouldn't do it again) and they didn't have a clue!!! I couldn't beleive it. I think people are so much absorbed by the story and the atmosphere that they don't really see what's happening and experience something unique. The same method applied to cards would probably not give the same enthusiasm.

I think the price of WS is a bit expensive, especially also because I bought an old english crown dated from 1889 (I was lucky to have a very old and beautiful fountain pen from my father), but if I consider the response I've had, it really was worth it.

The idea seems easy (I mean method, but especially story), but the one who came upon it was Jim. Well done!!!
Message: Posted by: Seth speaks (Jul 28, 2008 11:06PM)
This effect was only recently brought to my attention by a PM from someone looking for a good "Undertaker" style effect, to whom I recommended From Hell. I now think I will purchase WS, because it sounds great. However, I'd just like to comment on how refreshing it is to read a 5 page thread where strong disagreements are held, but in which almost everyone has acted with civility and respect toward others with differing views. What a rarity! Kudos to all posters thus far... (Hope this doesn't jinx it!)

Seth
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 29, 2008 03:11AM)
Yes, true Seth! There has been quite a lot of respect throughtout the thread. Thanks for pointing that out.

WS is REALLY terrific. I was a little disappointed when I first received it (because I found the method to be too simple - but again, I've never seen that elsewhere until very recently), but after quite a few performances, the response was really incredible. It's not just "another card trick".

Thanks for your nice post concerning the thread!
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 29, 2008 05:36PM)
Well said Seth (a 6 page thread now!)...I think that your observations are correct and mainly due to the fact that both Jim and Dominic give credit where credit is due and that 'White Star' doesn't pretend to be something that it's not...i.e. what it says, is what you get...and more!
Great value for money. Go for it, you won't be disappointed.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 30, 2008 04:48AM)
Just for people to know, I have done WS to a magician friend the other day and he told me that the main method of WS is VERY similar to John Kennedy's Reds and Blacks (some people have asked on the thread), it appears to be in fact nearly the same...

Of course the history is completely different and I really think that it brings the effect to a totally different level. People could - maybe - more easily backtrack John Kennedy's method... With WS it never happend to me... yet... :)
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Jul 30, 2008 10:39AM)
Looks like the effect is going down with the audiences as well as,well,the Titantic itself!! :lol:
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 30, 2008 04:47PM)
Down?
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Jul 31, 2008 06:20AM)
Yes down! I believe the big ship did sink??!
Message: Posted by: Mystic Monk (Jul 31, 2008 06:39AM)
Or was it the Olympic as the conspiracy says ?????
Now there’s a patter opportunity

Jim
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 31, 2008 08:01AM)
Yes, the ship did sink, but the effect does certainly not... in my experience at least.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jul 31, 2008 08:38AM)
Hi goldeneye007,
it sounds like you are glad you took the plunge and went for White Star.
When Adam1975 said it seems to be "going down well" he meant it was well received by the audiences. It's probably a phrase we only use here in the UK.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 31, 2008 08:56AM)
Oh! Sure... Right! Sorry about that... I made a too quick parallel with the Titanic sinking... but of course it was a joke... sorry about that... :)

Ben
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Jul 31, 2008 09:13AM)
Well we wont make waves about it :lol:
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Jul 31, 2008 09:31AM)
Thanks... ;) I understood that one... :)
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Jul 31, 2008 03:26PM)
I can't remember where I first learned Kennedys version...anyone know where it is? Would love to re-learn it

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Jul 31, 2008 06:10PM)
Christopher,I first saw it in the instructions for 'A New World' Dean Dill and Michael Weber.There is a version of 'Red and Black' in May '05 'Genii' by Gordon
Bean.
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 1, 2008 10:27AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-31 10:31, goldeneye007 wrote:
Thanks... ;) I understood that one... :)
[/quote]

goldeneye007...it seems you were all at sea :lol:
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Aug 1, 2008 10:45AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-01 11:27, Adam1975 wrote:

goldeneye007...it seems you were all at sea :lol:

[/quote]

this man is good... :)
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 2, 2008 12:49PM)
Thanks.Nice to make a splash...most of my posts don't hold water,and sink without a trace usually :rotf:
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Aug 3, 2008 03:25AM)
Adam,

Have you never heard John Cleese's three rules of comedy?

Tony
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 3, 2008 01:05PM)
No,you will have to tell me them...in any case it will keep the thread afloat lol :lol:
Message: Posted by: caigy (Aug 3, 2008 05:05PM)
Something tells me that this is just the tip of the iceberg!!

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Aug 4, 2008 03:28AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-02 13:49, Adam1975 wrote:
Thanks.Nice to make a splash...most of my posts don't hold water,and sink without a trace usually :rotf:
[/quote]
OMG... He's just unstoppable... ;)
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Aug 4, 2008 03:29AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-03 18:05, caigy wrote:
Something tells me that this is just the tip of the iceberg!!

Paul Mc.
[/quote]

Ah! It's always a pleasure to have these englishmen! :) :)
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Aug 4, 2008 05:43AM)
Adam,

John Cleese's three rules of comedy: 1. No Puns 2. No Puns 3. NO PUNS!!!!

Tony
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 4, 2008 10:47AM)
Tony
Rules are there to be broken :lol:

I know Im sailing close to the wind,and perhaps,were always gonna be oceans apart on this issue.Unless there is a sea change in the thread,I will be forced to trot out a raft of gags,so with that it mind,its full steam ahead folks!! :goof:
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 4, 2008 10:48AM)
This is a perfect storm of a thread.

You guys would be great for icebreakers at parties.

<<Rim shot!>>
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 4, 2008 10:48AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-03 18:05, caigy wrote:
Something tells me that this is just the tip of the iceberg!!

Paul Mc.
[/quote]

Very good Paul!!
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Aug 5, 2008 03:53AM)
Adan

CANCEL YOUR @*%%%$$ SUBSCRIPTION TO 'BEANO.'

Tony
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Aug 5, 2008 03:53AM)
Whoops - meant Adam
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 5, 2008 08:40AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 04:53, TonyMc wrote:
Adan

CANCEL YOUR @*%%%$$ SUBSCRIPTION TO 'BEANO.'

Tony
[/quote]
Well in my defence I have had a lot of PMs,a tidal wave of support you might say! :lol:
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Aug 5, 2008 11:01AM)
Watch out Adam... you already used "wave"... ;)
But maybe you wanted to say you "were flooded by PMs" ? :)
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 5, 2008 11:10AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 12:01, goldeneye007 wrote:
Watch out Adam... you already used "wave"... ;)
But maybe you wanted to say you "were flooded by PMs" ? :)
[/quote]

Well were all in the same boat in this thread,Iv tried to weather the storm,but it seems Im on the rocks,I only wanted to post a one liner,about one liner in particular,maybe now the wind is out of my sails,I will ship out of the thread............ :bg:
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Aug 5, 2008 12:04PM)
...And I know, that this thread... will go o-o-onnnnnnn....
Message: Posted by: Mystic Monk (Aug 5, 2008 01:29PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 12:10, Adam1975 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 12:01, goldeneye007 wrote:
Watch out Adam... you already used "wave"... ;)
But maybe you wanted to say you "were flooded by PMs" ? :)
[/quote]

Well were all in the same boat in this thread,Iv tried to weather the storm,but it seems Im on the rocks,I only wanted to post a one liner,about one liner in particular,maybe now the wind is out of my sails,I will ship out of the thread............ :bg:
[/quote]

Adam you may be skating on thin ice, but I think leaving the thread is going a bit overboard
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 5, 2008 01:31PM)
This Thread will be King of the World!!!!
Message: Posted by: silverking (Aug 5, 2008 01:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 13:04, gabelson wrote:
...And I know, that this thread... will go o-o-onnnnnnn....
[/quote]
Best so far!
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Aug 5, 2008 02:40PM)
Just thought I'd mention White Star; seems ages since it was part of the thread, I blame YOU, Adam!!!! Believe me, the Anti-Pun Police are coming!
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Aug 5, 2008 04:19PM)
That's five compartments! The thread can stay afloat with the first four compartments breached, but not five!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 5, 2008 07:18PM)
"Game over man! Game over!"

(YES there is a connection!)
Message: Posted by: caigy (Aug 5, 2008 08:23PM)
All aboard crew and let's set sail through the last few posts, throw Adam1975 a life line, wave goodbye to the puns and one liners, then navigate 'White Star' back onto the right course.
This is a first class effect, which involves no decks or paddle moves, ideal for buoys or girls but is not available on sailor return.
Although not a very deep person but by no means shallow, I will be interested to sea how many people will jump in with this one and whether it will sink or swim. I am not 100% shore.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: edh (Aug 5, 2008 08:30PM)
Perhaps it will neither sink or swim but just continue to float on.
Message: Posted by: Adam1975 (Aug 6, 2008 10:23AM)
Some very good ones folks,meets with my seal of approval!!
But yes its time to get back to White Star,so with that in mind,I will batten down the hatches,I wont be stern (stern!!),and as I don't want the thread to capsize,Il just say Iv had a whale of a time,its all been above board,so back to the trick, me hearties!! :lol:
Message: Posted by: Mystic Monk (Aug 6, 2008 12:03PM)
In my opinion the last few days on this thread have been fantastic and this is what makes magicians great to know and mix with. (Sorry no puns)
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Aug 7, 2008 03:49AM)
My opinion too!!! :)
My congratulations again for the story Jim!! This is also what makes the thread AND the effect live!
Message: Posted by: TonyMc (Aug 7, 2008 06:28AM)
Okay, we've had the puns, now what about some Limericks? Who's gonna complete this one?

A trick from the Mystic Monk
About a ship that tragically sunk
Caused a great deal of fun
And the odd rotten pun
…?????
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (Aug 7, 2008 11:36AM)
I posted the following on in PENNY FOR YOUR THOUGHTS to answer to a request mentioning the DISCARD PILE.

----------

I think I have a good idea of how this could work BUT I didn't get this, so forgive me if this idea has been already suggested in the instructions.

I would say that the discard pile is the LOST AT SEA pile (people who were not found, but no one kno if they have been drowned or they have made it) and actually I would not see the NEED to show that pile at the end.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 7, 2008 11:51AM)
Hey PAAAAOOOLLOOOO


----

Also, I posted under LOTH the overkill method if you really needed it to let the person see all the cards and make it appear nothing was in order...
Message: Posted by: Christopher Congreave (Aug 10, 2008 02:29PM)
Here is my solution to the discard pile which in my opinion makes the discard pile almost as strong as the rest of the trick, it turns a weakness into a strength.

You need 3 items, lets say a coin, a pen and the third item is an old photograph with two people on it.

Place the coin to one side and the pen to the other and the photo in the middle, run through the routine as per the instructions and place the Died cards next to the coin, the survivors next to the pen and the discards in front of the photo.

At the climax explain that the coin belonged to someone who died in the tragedy, the pen belonged to one of the survivors, the photo however is a strange thing, because one of the people in the photo died and the other survived (turn discards over) which is why you couldn't decide which pile to place them in.

As I said earlier, you could now make the discard pile the climax of the trick and really hit them for six with this.

I hope you like that, any feedback always welcome. :)

All the best

Chris Congreave

http://www.christophercongreave.co.uk
Message: Posted by: mimo67 (Aug 10, 2008 04:32PM)
Great idea Christopher, and thanks for sharing !
Just one little thing : it could perhaps be a little awkward to lay photographs on another photo (with the two people that aren't after all on the other pictures)...

So I'd rather present something else, like a spoon and a fork, or two wedding rings etc. i.e. two appared objects which could belong to a married couple for example and which could have been found in the ocean (well one of them only...) ??!!

Anyway, very nice idea you had here, thanks again !
Message: Posted by: Christopher Congreave (Aug 10, 2008 05:42PM)
Hi, I would place the photograph down and place the white star photo's in front of rather than on top of the picture.

If you mention the items as markers to start with and then after all the dealing mention the titanic etc. The fact that they don't appear elsewhere shouldn't matter.

As I said earlier, using this idea, I think the discard pile could be a strong point to this (wonderful) routine.
Message: Posted by: mimo67 (Aug 16, 2008 05:27AM)
For my 50th message I'll submit an idea I had, it's perhaps a bad one (I'm not a very experienced magician by now...) to apply not to the props but to the principles and methods used in White Star.

On the Imdb website (Internet Movie DataBase) you can find a lot of birthdays and/or death days (not sure about this, I'm french...) of famous actors, directors and so on. So I thought perhaps if you perform for a host's birthday party you could come up with some cards (photos or names on front, dates of birth or death behind) that were born/died the same day your host was born. So this one could select the pictures/names and see afterwards that he choose on one side the same that were born and on the other those who died at that date...

Well I see 2 problems at least : time consumming preparation (a one time long job) and the handling of the discard pile... Christopher's great idea above wouldn't work with this presentation.

Well, anyway, that's my little contribution as a beginner, don't know if this would be workable or interest somebody, but I like the idea behind the White Star effect and thought it could be adapted in other ways...

Thanks for reading.
Message: Posted by: Mystic Monk (Aug 16, 2008 12:32PM)
Hi
Just a thought about what people are saying about the discard pile.
The discard pile has been somewhat unfortunately named (discard) giving the impression to people who don’t do the effect that its some kind of bad thing which needs hiding or getting rid of, when infract its an integral part of the effect.
In the spectators mind they feel they have freely selected photographs and often the number of photos differ between each spectator, which reinforces the fairness and makes perfect sense of the “discard pile” or as I would prefer to call it “The pile of photos with less psychic energy”
If we could really do this effect for real would it not look like this.

You show two people a number of photographs
You explain that they may be attracted to some of the photos
Each spectator selects some photos
At the end each spectator could have selected a different number of photos
There are photos left which neither were attracted to
Spectator 1 has picked up on died images
Spectator 2 has picked up on survived images
And the remaining photos (discard) are both died & Survived

In my opinion this makes sense to the spectators and I think this is how it would look if the spectators had really divined living from dead. Do you not think that ending up with 2 piles with the same amount of photos in each is just a bit too perfect
Message: Posted by: caigy (Aug 16, 2008 05:29PM)
Jim, I agree that this is a more plausable reason for the third pile. It makes more sense that no photo-cards are 'discarded'.

Discard the idea of a discard pile.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: BroDon (Nov 21, 2008 07:57PM)
I recently purchased Whitestar and cold not be more pleased with it.

I took the time to acquire a nice collection of Titanic "artifacts" (Check ebay)
For music, I use a recording made by "I Solinisti" several years ago called "And the Band Played On". These musicinas recreated the music that would have been heard onboard, including "Nearer My God to Thee". The utter simplicity of execution leaves the performer 100% free to focus on presentation. It has become the highlight of my after dinner performances. I use the "Whitestar Revisited" handling most of the time, but if circumstances are right, I use one spectator and Derren Brown's "Undertaker" handlling.

Thaks Tim and company....a nice bit of work!
Message: Posted by: John C (Dec 14, 2008 02:05PM)
I just want to clafify this statement about Whitestar:

"The cards REALLY are completely mixed up and shuffled by the spectators. The performer does not change the order of the cards AT ALL once the spectator has mixed them, or after the spectators have chosen the cards they want to keep! "

The specs can shuffle/mix the cards BEFORE choosing which ones they want to keep?

Thanks to anyone.

J
Message: Posted by: caigy (Dec 14, 2008 04:54PM)
Johncesta,
when doing 'White Star Revisited', which is my favorite version, YES! to all of the above.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: John C (Dec 14, 2008 05:28PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-14 17:54, caigy wrote:
Johncesta,
when doing 'White Star Revisited', which is my favorite version, YES! to all of the above.

Paul Mc.
[/quote]

Sounds like something I want!

J
Message: Posted by: caigy (Dec 15, 2008 09:46AM)
Johncesta,
you do indeed!
When you get it, search e-bay etc. for the couple of authentic props which really give it the extra umphh!
I am sure you will love it.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: The Game (Dec 16, 2008 05:12AM)
I have a question: After they shuffle the cards, do you offer them the cards one by one to each one? Or do you offer the cards in random order (for example 2 to spec.1, 1 to spec.2, 1 to spec.1 etc.)?

I just want to know how do they select the cards after they were shuffled?

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Mark Elsdon (Dec 16, 2008 05:32AM)
Chris and everyone,

The photograph idea is something that I played around with when I first got Whitestar from Jim. In order to make it less cluttered (by using an extra photo) I used a small locket with an old sepia picture of a young man and woman in it. An inscription and date are on the locket. You claim that the woman in the picture survived, whilst her husband perished...

It did provide a very poignant ending to the routine, which as I perform it is about intuition or vibe depending on the age of the spectators.

From experience, though, it always felt like it made the outcome back to front somehow. When I perform Whitestar normally, I show the 'mixed' pile first, then the 'died' pile and finally the 'survived' pile last, ending on a slightly more upbeat note.

When I was using the locket, it just never quite got the extra reaction I was hoping for... Lived, died, lived and died. Thanks for helping!

The only handling I use now involves 2 identical looking 'George V' pennies. One is from 1912, the other from 1917. I don't point the dates out till after the deal. You can guess the rest...

Cheers,

ME
Message: Posted by: KiKi (Dec 16, 2008 06:36AM)
Ok guys,
I got WHITESTAR, and I am absolutely disappointed. Why is it just me? I own PLANET EARTH (paolo cavalli e-book) and this is MUCH stronger than WHITESTAR. Cause in WHITESTAR the method is so transparent, I can`t believe you can fool anybody with this. Maybe I think like a magician, but WHITESTAR is defenately the weakest effect in the manuscript. The one with the cards (world beyond) is much stronger, because in the spectators eyes the performer don`t know which card you give to each person. In WHITESTAR it´s obvious. So I bought an effect I already own, but weaker!
could you tell me what`s wrong with my thinking?
kiki
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Dec 16, 2008 07:11AM)
Have to be honest, Kiki,

I recently saw this performed at a Bizarre performance in the Galleries Of Justice in Nottingham and the methodology flew right by me. My partner was also used as a participant in the effect and the methodology flew right by her too. I must point out that although she is my partner, she doesn't have a great knowledge of our art and saw it as a good old fashioned audience member would.

Ok, sure, I've got ideas about how it was achieved but it didn't come over to me as apparent at the time.

In fact, I might actually pick this effect up at some point just based on that performance itself.

Mark
Message: Posted by: aqmagish20 (Dec 16, 2008 08:14AM)
Kiki

I own it and have performed it regularly. When I first opened it and read it I had the same feeling. Then I performed it once. Once you see the reaction on peoples faces and hear the gasps from the others in the audience, I think you will view it differently. I am not familiar with planet earth but I feel this is stronger than the versions with cards because they are just card tricks. this can be performed with some light emotion tied to it. The key for me, which disagrees with some here is the discard pile. Showing the discard pile mixed solidifies the effect to me. It has been debated here about showing the dicard pile but I feel it is a necessity. It has also been discussed about how to mix them. I basically pick them up and mix as I discuss the nature of the cards, revela teh mixed disacrd pile and then each spectators pile. I like the advice of doing the dead first, I may try that next time. End on a positive. Try it once and I think you'll enjoy it.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Dec 16, 2008 09:07AM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-16 07:36, KiKi wrote:
Ok guys,
I got WHITESTAR, and I am absolutely disappointed. Why is it just me? I own PLANET EARTH (paolo cavalli e-book) and this is MUCH stronger than WHITESTAR.
[/quote]

now have Split reality White star and I still prefer Planet earth a little bit more because with Planet Earth you can use pictures postcards or anything else than playing cards:but all three are good takes I only happen to think Cavalli's was first one and credited Karmilovich for part of his idea . Split reality credit Paolo Cavalli for something similar but whitestar do not
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Dec 16, 2008 02:08PM)
What I meant was that with Cavalli's planet earth alone you can easily substitute playing card for envelopes;postcards;portraits;business cards [as I did for one routine] without needing to get split reality or whitestar to be able to do that:

but I'm happy having bought all three because each one seem to have some subtleties that are missing in the others:so id recommend you get all of them and then work up your best melange of methods together
Message: Posted by: KiKi (Dec 17, 2008 03:06AM)
So what made me mad was that I bought a method/effect I already know/have. I like it if one method cancels out the other. With objects, you can SEE, f.e. (pictures), you can relate the front with the back. it would be different if you take pictures, turn them around, and all you see is a blank back. for a spectator it looks that the performer doesn`t know the front of the pictures while he give them to the spectators, cause they are all blank. So, you can`t relate the backs with the front in the spectators eyes. Of course YOU can, cause they are marked, but THEY don`t know! and that's the principle in PLANET EARTH. I could just use PLANET EARTH and use pictures, postcards or whatever (of course marked), instead of playingcards, and one method cancels out the other ! But maybe I don't need that, and I am to concerned!
kiki
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Dec 17, 2008 02:04PM)
Kiki it seem in your case you could adapt cavalli's PLANET EARTH to other things without needing to buy anything else
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Dec 17, 2008 02:05PM)
At last a great effect which is sold by a magic dealer that lives 1 mile away from my house as opposed to half way round the world which is normally the case.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Dec 21, 2008 04:54AM)
I have up-loaded a video tutorial link on the forum here.....

http://www.streetsleights.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=6

It basically eliminates the work you have to do if using the superior White Star Revisited method.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Dec 21, 2008 07:02AM)
Pegasus,
I have logged onto the site ok but cannot remember where to find the 'Topic' password.
Is it somewhere in the White Star booklet?

Many thanks,

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Franky (Dec 21, 2008 08:25AM)
Hi Paul,

on the back of the card from Mr.Thomas Brown you will find the Ticket No.


Franky
Message: Posted by: caigy (Dec 21, 2008 09:07AM)
Cheers Franky,

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Dec 21, 2008 09:20AM)
Great tip pegasus. 'Revisited' is my preferred method and I will be applying this to it in future.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: zimsalabim (Jan 4, 2009 07:25PM)
Gang take it from me (I have been working on Titanic for 10 years all told) Titanic the experience in Orlando. I have always been interested in titanic and her people. Tehre are a dozen stories of couples you could use in this effect I just finally laid out the money to buy it as we will be having a grand repopenning for the Exhibit in its new larger quarters. I am so lookng forward to putting this together for the guests on that night and my regualr audiences as well. Don't just use anything this story has so many twists and turns in it you could not write a better one. I hope all this makes sense. I look forward to writign of my experiences with what sounds like a great effect.

Z
Message: Posted by: Jamie D. Grant (Jan 4, 2009 08:11PM)
Whitestar killed on Magic Friday and, as a result, I came up with this great idea (if I may say so myself), lol. I've performed it many times since and it's absolutely amazing. One of the best tricks of 2007, IMO.

Here's my tip if you're interested

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=285613&forum=109&19

~jamie
Message: Posted by: magic559 (Jan 4, 2009 10:17PM)
White Star is my first step into more of a mentalism type effect, something I'm trying to learn more about. I will say that I've done it a few times and it kills! I do the revisited version.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Jan 5, 2009 01:14PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-21 05:54, pegasus wrote:
I have up-loaded a video tutorial link on the forum here.....

http://www.streetsleights.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=6

It basically eliminates the work you have to do if using the superior White Star Revisited method.
[/quote]

magic559,

if you like the 'Revisited' version, follow the advice above from 'pegasus'.
It is a really first-class addition to an already top-notch routine.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 5, 2009 02:17PM)
I mentioned this in the forum also. If you perform revisited in an alternating stack and alternate 1 at a time to the specs then you have a total mix up of the discard pile at the end, no need to peek at any cards. All seems fair and baffles just as much. Great tip from Jamie too, thanks.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jan 5, 2009 02:45PM)
Maybe it's just me, but I think the "revisited" method is blatantly obvious IF you don't use Pegasus' idea.

Robert
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 5, 2009 03:21PM)
I agree Robert, and plus the other spec isn't getting bored waiting. Combine this method with Jamie's tips and never mentioning Titanic until the end, gives a killer effect.
Message: Posted by: magic559 (Jan 11, 2009 06:21PM)
What I did was the memory work. I also then ensure that the deck is thoroughly mixed (evenly) because one of the early comments I received was "You keep showing more to him". The spectator perceived that the other person was seeing more. A line I also now say is "I'll show the same number of pictures to you both, but I'll try to do it randomly so that you don't fall into a routine of just saying 'yes' and 'no'. That line is very effective.

As far as back story, I say I bought a big bunch of pictures at the Vegas exhibit in Las Vegas. I then go on to explain that I grabbed some of those for the experiment today. This does a couple of things for me: (1) Vegas makes a lot more sense for me because I've never been to London and couldn't really carry on a conversation if someone were to ask about a trip I've taken there (2) The spectator then perceives that these images aren't particularly meaningful to me because they are part of a larger bunch. I think this would make it even more difficult for them to think I did the memory work.
Message: Posted by: Grant Mitchell (Mar 9, 2010 04:46PM)
Not sure if anyone is still talking about this, but I just bought White Star and love it... I have changed the routine completely though (now 1 spectator only) and no "other" pile. I also use just one prop...

Get in touch if you're interested and fancy chatting about White Star
Message: Posted by: crestfallenLyric (Mar 16, 2010 11:08AM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-09 17:46, Grant Mitchell wrote:
Not sure if anyone is still talking about this, but I just bought White Star and love it... I have changed the routine completely though (now 1 spectator only) and no "other" pile. I also use just one prop...

Get in touch if you're interested and fancy chatting about White Star
[/quote]

Hi Grant, also just received this trick, sent a PM to ya.

I'm slightly disappointed in this effect in the same way Kiki was, in that I thought it was a TAKE on OOTW using a variation of the method. But, when I go out and try it out this Saturday, I will see how it goes, hopefully my presentation will cover everything up.
Message: Posted by: aligator (Mar 16, 2010 11:34AM)
Don't see what needs covering up in the method, as long as you memorize the photos and arrange them so they do not come up alternately. I like to have 3 in a row come up at least once and ask a 3rd partipant what he/she might recommend as the selection.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Mar 16, 2010 02:30PM)
As previously mentioned above, look at pegasus's idea:
http://www.streetsleights.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=6

and jamie's tip:
http://www.streetsleights.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=6

Great effect made even better!

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: crestfallenLyric (Mar 16, 2010 05:50PM)
All right, I have to take back what I said, this indeed is a great effect. I just test drove it on a very clever friend, and using a slight variation on the original method and not even with much presentation I was able to get her quite well. This should be exciting with a far better dressing-up.
Message: Posted by: caigy (Mar 17, 2010 08:31PM)
:)

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: xtrouble (Oct 10, 2010 05:34PM)
On one of the threads about this effect, there was a message about playing a hymn, and having the recording manipulated to sound "old", all scratchy like an old 78 record.

I thought this was a great idea, and had an idea of using "For those in peril on the sea", I found a freebie plugin to make sound files sound all old and beat up (for those of you familiar with music software, such as sequencers). It's available here - http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

It may come in handy for adding music to other presentations as well.
Message: Posted by: Stephen Young (Oct 11, 2010 03:28AM)
Thanks for the link
I'm going to try this out tomorrow on the sound file I use (Nearer My God To Thee)
Which was supposedly being played by the band on board as Titanic sank.

I'm not too technical so I hope the software is easy to use


steve
Message: Posted by: xtrouble (Oct 11, 2010 02:09PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-11 04:28, steveline wrote:
Thanks for the link
I'm going to try this out tomorrow on the sound file I use (Nearer My God To Thee)
Which was supposedly being played by the band on board as Titanic sank.

I'm not too technical so I hope the software is easy to use


steve
[/quote]

Have done some playing with that tune. If you pm me an email address I'll forward you the mp3
Message: Posted by: Stephen Young (Oct 12, 2010 03:22AM)
Nice offer Mr Trouble

I've PMed you


Steve
Message: Posted by: xtrouble (Oct 12, 2010 10:23AM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-12 04:22, steveline wrote:
Nice offer Mr Trouble

I've PMed you


Steve
[/quote]

Sent now.

Enjoy (I hope !)
Message: Posted by: PhiltheBear (Jan 12, 2012 06:11AM)
Sorry to disinter an old thread but I came across White Star accidently when looking at something else from Jim. It looks like a solid trick BUT - and in my case it's a big but - I live and work mainly near Southampton (UK). As you may know there's currently a new Titanic museum being built here and there are a lot of local people with connections to the Titanic - mainly via ancestors who worked on it as crew. My question is, would this trick be at all upsetting to such people?
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 12, 2012 09:07AM)
This isn't an effect you'd want to perform for living ancestors of those involved in the disaster.

Far too powerful and close to home.
Message: Posted by: PhiltheBear (Jan 24, 2012 11:46AM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-12 10:07, silverking wrote:
This isn't an effect you'd want to perform for living ancestors of those involved in the disaster.

Far too powerful and close to home.
[/quote]

I rather thought that to be the case. Oh well - looks like I'll stick with Outlaw Effects for the moment! Thanks for the info.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jan 24, 2012 02:12PM)
I've performed Whitstar in Southampton for a few years now and you should have no problem.

It went down really well at an event at the Southampton boat show. And was a staple effect at several gigs booked by Portsmouth Historic Dockyard.

Ive found that its all about presenting it with tact and sympathy. If done seriously, ensuring the spectators are respectful of the people in the photographs, it goes down very well indeed!
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Jul 21, 2012 11:15AM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-12 07:11, PhiltheBear wrote:
Sorry to disinter an old thread but I came across White Star accidently when looking at something else from Jim. It looks like a solid trick BUT - and in my case it's a big but - I live and work mainly near Southampton (UK). As you may know there's currently a new Titanic museum being built here and there are a lot of local people with connections to the Titanic - mainly via ancestors who worked on it as crew. My question is, would this trick be at all upsetting to such people?
[/quote]

I don't own this so don't know all the workings on it. But couldn't you work it as something you picked up or learned during a trip to the states?
Message: Posted by: magicHart (Jul 21, 2012 08:34PM)
I did this for a class of 4th graders
They all knew about the Titanic from the movie

Set up the ambiance with a bit of history, some old coins, ans an antique pen...... As well as a copy of the Titanic DVD!

Kids reaction: stunned silence!
Message: Posted by: Jamie D. Grant (Nov 4, 2012 10:31AM)
As a quick FYI, I just reviewed this for Magic Friday!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chkSj1wxzXc][img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tyr4Od7MlBI/UH-MxQCH4wI/AAAAAAAACdQ/WHgT8Cxlm3w/s1600/watch_on_youtube.png[/img][/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chkSj1wxzXc
Message: Posted by: aqmagish20 (Nov 4, 2012 11:00AM)
Hey there Jamie. Great review. Bad feeling/good feeling is great advice. Always felt bad giving someone the pile of dead people. Takes away a "bad feeling" (no pun intended) for one of the participants. Thanks for sharing.

Andy Quinn
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Nov 4, 2012 12:03PM)
This one always blows people away and is one my favorite story routines to date.
Message: Posted by: slyrich (Nov 4, 2012 01:15PM)
Yep this is an awesome effect, when played properly. A real favourite of mine.
Message: Posted by: Salby (Sep 2, 2013 10:33AM)
.
I just received this from a fellow Café member and loving the idea and its potential.

Anymore thoughts or options people would like to share?

What props do people use and how do you incorporate them in the routine?
.
Message: Posted by: DaveS (Nov 8, 2013 12:07PM)
I own White Star and wonder whether the private discussion forum for White Star is still available and how to reach it? The links provided in this thread and at MagicShop.co.uk which sells the effect are dead ends. Thanks for any advice.
Dave
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Jan 1, 2014 05:20AM)
I , too, would love the forum to be available again. (seems to have stopped for UP The Ante as well!). Have just got this effect myself after christmas and am loving the premise. Now here is my take on it. I love the revisited version and I liked Pegasus idea on using an alternating set up but why not take it further........? Use the alternating set up and then riffle shuffle the photos - odd, I know!!! - ensuring that the face card of each block is differing, ie 1 is died, the other survived. The result will be pairs of photos, each containing a diied and a survived.......now who was it that once accused me of not understtanding the GP here on these hallowed forums??!! All you have to do, now, is peek at one of the photos backs as you pick the pair up. In this fashion the photos have been shuffled but each spectator will get regular goes, ie no long runs of one over the other, the photos have been randomly mixed and you are only peeking 1 photo ieach pair!

Apologies if this has already been suggested.....am new to this effect. Hats off to Mr Critchlow, however. Lovely work sir!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 1, 2014 08:25AM)
Great idea Capt. I will try your method. You must get lots of time to think once you're in the cruise phase of your flights. Lol. Gear up / LNAV / VNAV / chill out time.
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Jan 1, 2014 10:22AM)
Pegasus, are you, perchance, a fellow aviator?! Yes, these 380 ultra long-haul sectors do give you the time to think....

Hope that you like it in practice, do please let me know what you think. Have just trialled it to my daughter and her friend. Very pleased with the results thus far. A nice spooky atmosphere and no hint that they even thought about how it was that I achieved the goal.

Happy new year to you all,

Best

Martyn
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Jan 2, 2014 09:09AM)
Actually, I guess from your handle that you probably have amny more takeoffs than landings....!! I have 3 more takeoofs than I do landings...Let me know how your trial of my idea goes. Another successful performance this morning. This effect is fantastic! Really geta the audience slightly spooked and puzzled.....lots of scope for entertainment here
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Jan 2, 2014 10:32AM)
Here's an idea I'm playing around with...

Only use 10 photos, 5 of each. Put each photo in an opaque envelope (pay envelope just big enough to fit the photo). Put a large black "X" on the back of the envelopes that contain the five "Died" photos.

You show the participant the 10 envelopes (keeping the "X" side down so it's hidden.) Explain that you want the participant to separate the envelopes into two groups. You say that you don't want them to know what is inside yet because you don't want them to be influenced by what they see. Instead you want them to try and feel a difference.

You then go into Patrick Redford's Small World routine that uses 10 cards. Its actions are perfectly designed for this effect.

After the participant has separated the 10 envelopes into two groups, you turn over each group, showing that the participant has successfully separated the five envelopes with an "X" from the five without "X"s.

So, what exactly is in the envelopes, and what is the significance of the "X"? You remove the photos, keeping them in the two groups. You explain that, again, you used the envelopes because you didn't want the participant to be influenced by the faces of the people. Instead, you wanted them to simply rely on their feeling or intuition.

That's when you slowly begin to turn over each photo to show that the participant has successfully grouped the photos into those who have survived and those who have died.
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Jan 2, 2014 12:25PM)
Need to look that one up....dont know it. Any pointers as to where to find that?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Jan 2, 2014 02:42PM)
There's a topic for Small World on the Penny forum. You could use other OOTW methods, but I think the envelopes and the "X" idea are perfectly suited to the method Redford uses in his 10 card version of Small World.

BTW, although I'm suggesting Small World, I have no connection to Redford. I just have Small World and have been playing with non-playing card adaptations if his ideas.
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Jan 2, 2014 02:58PM)
Will start investigating.....many thanks for your help
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 2, 2014 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-01 11:22, captainsmiffy wrote:
Pegasus, are you, perchance, a fellow aviator?! Yes, these 380 ultra long-haul sectors do give you the time to think....

Hope that you like it in practice, do please let me know what you think. Have just trialled it to my daughter and her friend. Very pleased with the results thus far. A nice spooky atmosphere and no hint that they even thought about how it was that I achieved the goal.

Happy new year to you all,

Best

Martyn
[/quote]

Unfortunately not Martyn. Microsoft flight sim (FSX) is as close as I have got to flying. Lol.
Message: Posted by: dd123 (Feb 24, 2014 08:40AM)
Hi all. Apologies if this has already been covered, but has anyone tried ma*/ing the photo's in any way in order to take the Revisited method to a further level by not having to p**k at the backs? I think that this could make the effect virtually foolproof, but I don't want to ruin the photo's unnecessarily.

Thanks! Duncan.
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Feb 25, 2014 12:37AM)
Yes, I have and it really enhances the experience IMHO. Had a discussion with the Ben at the Merchant of Magic, who own the rights to this....he was a little sceptical so I went ahead and sorted my own photo set and no peaks are needed now. Indeed, if you read my earlier post then the photos can be shuffled as well as no peek being required....
Message: Posted by: dd123 (Feb 25, 2014 04:34AM)
Thanks Smiffy. I would be interested to hear how you m***ed the cards, as I have yet to give this much thought, but I think that this would be a real worker. I would be really greatful if you could PM me your method if that's not too cheeky?

Cheers, Duncan.
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Feb 25, 2014 04:53AM)
Will do so, sir.....however, am away flying but will be back at base tomorrow and will furnish you with the details then.....
Message: Posted by: dd123 (Feb 25, 2014 06:07AM)
Thanks for that. I look forward to it. Safe flight!
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Feb 26, 2014 11:11PM)
Dd123, fliht conducted safely....500 plus passengers safely delivered....unlike your pm!! You don't appear to have a 'pm' link attached.....!
Message: Posted by: Mike ODonnell (Feb 27, 2014 02:30AM)
How does this compare to Hampton Falls by Tony Chris?
Message: Posted by: dd123 (Feb 27, 2014 03:40AM)
Smiffy, I have PM'ed you. Hopefully you will get it and be able to reply?

Cheers, Duncan.
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Feb 27, 2014 04:43AM)
Hi Duncan,

Have replied to your PM - hope that you like the idea. It works very well for me!

Best,

Martyn
Message: Posted by: JimCritchlow (Apr 11, 2014 07:57PM)
Two years in the making and now here mine and Tony's TITANIC available from most UK dealers from 11 April just ask. http://youtu.be/djWLiHhDFNw
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Apr 11, 2014 10:27PM)
Sounds good. Is this the same as White Star but updated to include more props?

Trailer doesn't tell or show much at all.

where will this be available so we can see a better description of what it really is?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Apr 11, 2014 10:29PM)
Forgot to mention....

If this is indeed new or even improved.
You should start a new thread here since it's different.
Just a suggestion.

Mike
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Apr 12, 2014 12:34AM)
Congratulations Jim, sounds great but could do with more info. Another pointless trailer IMO.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Apr 12, 2014 03:54AM)
Is this a new version then? no info on how much it cost? where to obtain it? as stated clueless trailer.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Apr 12, 2014 03:58AM)
Does this have the same issues as the original i.e. that the images are badly stretched and look like a computer novice put the thing together?
Message: Posted by: JimCritchlow (Apr 12, 2014 04:58AM)
It's basically the Fallen and unlike whitestar Tony and I have had full control of the artwork the cards are replica cart de visite photos of the period. We have put some secret indicators on each to allow you to do a predicted photo to wallet. Also you can determine the fate of the passenger by the photo on the front as well as the info on the back. Sorry about the vague trailer but aside from the mechanics of the (trick) it's all about the story. The way I perform it won't be the way others do and to be honest everyone I have ever seen do any of my effects seem to do them better than me, probably my insecurity. So in brief it's the Fallen on a Titanic theme, 50 good quality photo cards, the items you get are specially made brass key fob, a real old period penny, replica post card, playing card and a Whitestar pencil. Hope this has been some help
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Apr 12, 2014 05:22AM)
Hi folks

White star is in the process of being revamped and the new version adds a whole range of new features, images, and improved handling.

The new version also allows you to present the effect in different 'mood styles' depending on your audience, as well as additional images to present the routine outside of the Titanic theme.

Over the last few years we have been collecting presentation ideas, expansion techniques, and handlings, which I think will be very exciting both for users of the original white star and those that go for the new version.

I'll post more info ASAP as we get ready for release.

I'm really excited about how this effect is about to be expanded. I think you will love it.

We will keep the same name : White Star and it will replace the original version

More news about it will go up over the next couple of weeks on the Merchant of Magic blog


Best wishes

Dominic
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Apr 12, 2014 08:11AM)
Ughhhhh.
More vague info.
But at least we know the name....
You guys are killing us.
Message: Posted by: JimCritchlow (Apr 12, 2014 02:04PM)
Just to set things straight Jim Critchlow's TITANIC is not Whitestar. Tony and myself wanted to amalgamate and improve the two effects "Whitestar" and "The Fallen" however the rights to Whitestar are owned by Dominic Reyes, and Peter Nardi owns The Fallen. Peter was happy to go forward with the project but Dominic felt the two should be kept separate. This is understandable and Tony and I fully respect this and have taken it on board. So TITANIC is The Fallen in another guise. It doesn't use any of the same images as Whitestar, it doesn't openly display Died or Survived and nowhere in the instructions is the plot or method to Whitestar talked about. Both Tony and I look forward to see the improvements Dominic has planned for the effect and wish him great success with it.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Apr 12, 2014 02:30PM)
Hi Jim
Thanks for clarifying that for everyone.

Knowing your work, and having collaborated with you in the past, I know Titanic is going to be something special. I'll be recommending that magicians pick this up!

Best wishes
Dominic
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Apr 21, 2014 08:57AM)
I have the fallen and can't wait for this new release, I will definitely be looking out for this one.
Message: Posted by: JimCritchlow (Apr 25, 2014 08:58AM)
Some dealers have them now but I do have some for sale on ebay Jim Critchlow's TITANIC
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Apr 25, 2014 11:06AM)
Can't find anything on eBay :-(
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Apr 25, 2014 03:43PM)
Thanks to a PM from Jim its all sorted and
Titanic is on its way to me :-)
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Apr 28, 2014 01:58PM)
Link?

i just see the original White Star
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Apr 28, 2014 05:02PM)
Just send Jim an email and he will send you the link, I don't think he reads PMs
Message: Posted by: magringo (Apr 29, 2014 08:10PM)
I'd love to know more about this magic effect... when will there be any more information on it... and where can it be found? Nothing on ebay... thanks
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 26, 2014 12:10PM)
I purchased TITANIC at the weekend and I have attached a real 100 year old key to the brass fob and guess what?, oh yes it is a haunted one ,love this along with the Heirloom PDF ,i have a lot to read before my Halloween show.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Aug 26, 2014 12:41PM)
Great value for money considering what you get.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 26, 2014 12:43PM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2014, george1953 wrote:
Great value for money considering what you get. [/quote]

George it is fantastic value you are right there and can not wait to perform it.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Aug 26, 2014 02:43PM)
You could pay that just for a 1912 penny, if you can find one !
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 26, 2014 04:14PM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2014, george1953 wrote:
You could pay that just for a 1912 penny, if you can find one ! [/quote]
I have a 1912 penny George and a 1911 an 1861 ,1862 and a couple I think a lttle older very worn away and the dates's can just be seen.Will have to check what penny I got with the FALLEN.
Message: Posted by: RedHatMagic (Sep 5, 2014 03:13AM)
Having watched the demo reel I know nothing about the effect. Having read the blurb on the magicshop websites I know nothing about the effect.

Having been told by Jim that it was like "The Fallen" I knew nothing about the effect.....until I looked here.

http://www.magicshop.co.uk/MIND_MAGIC_TRICKS/c28/p21064/The_Fallen_-_By_Jim_Critchlow/product_info.html

I hope this helps.

Danny
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 6, 2014 05:14AM)
I performed a version of Titanic last night for some friends using a Perer Turner method with only using 20 card's also I incorporated a haunted key taken from the fob and a haunted card/haunted deck,it went down really really well,my full performance on Halloween will definatly be one to remember.
Message: Posted by: FlightRisk (Sep 6, 2014 11:27PM)
Is the updated White Star available yet? Who has them if so?
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (Sep 6, 2014 11:40PM)
[quote]On Sep 6, 2014, FlightRisk wrote:
Is the updated White Star available yet? Who has them if so? [/quote]

Yep, been out for awhile, so far only thru Alakzam Magic co., here ya go - http://www.alakazam.co.uk/product-Titanic-By-Jim-Critchlow.html

I personally think it's better than Jim's original WS, this has much more to draw upon with reveal info, but I think that the props look too new to have come from something that happened long ago from a survivor or especially if it came from one of the passenger's that drowned & recovered.....but just a matter of a little aging :-)
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 7, 2014 04:14AM)
I have aged the card and postcard a little ,i would like to discolour the brass key fob,any idea how?.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Sep 7, 2014 05:12AM)
Put the key fob in a plastic bag and then put some ammonia on a cloth and put it in the bag along with the key fob. DO NOT put ammonia directly on the fob, then just have a look at it ever 3/4 hours to see how its coming along.
The fumes will discolour the fob in an uneven pattern. If you discolour it too much you can always clean it off and start again.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 7, 2014 06:20AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2014, george1953 wrote:
Put the key fob in a plastic bag and then put some ammonia on a cloth and put it in the bag along with the key fob. DO NOT put ammonia directly on the fob, then just have a look at it ever 3/4 hours to see how its coming along.
The fumes will discolour the fob in an uneven pattern. If you discolour it too much you can always clean it off and start again. [/quote]
Many thanks George ,you have an E-mail.
Message: Posted by: baobow (Sep 7, 2014 05:10PM)
They used key fobs back inn 1912?
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 8, 2014 02:49PM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2014, baobow wrote:
They used key fobs back inn 1912? [/quote]

Google old 1912 key fob's up,they look to be genuine one's on there.