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Topic: Closeup Drawing Duplication
Message: Posted by: Majestic12 (May 31, 2008 07:33AM)
Hi.

Can anyone recommend a good Closeup Drawing Duplication? I have heard great things about Osterlind's , is this the way to go?

Any help would be appreciated.
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (May 31, 2008 07:38AM)
S.O.M. Son of Mindscan from outlaw-effects is that close up design duplication, I would recommend.
Very clean and clever.
Here is the link: http://outlaw-effects.com/outlaweffects/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=42
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (May 31, 2008 07:38AM)
Yes, you heard right. I would recommend it. You can't loose without it.
Message: Posted by: LLL (May 31, 2008 08:45AM)
John Riggs - Mucking Marvelous peek - Gods with feet of clay 3

Tommy Pad - http://www.7mb.com/strangethoughts/products.html - allthough I'm not sure if it is available at the moment. But is a lovely imp pad.


Andy
Message: Posted by: Blackwood (May 31, 2008 09:33AM)
FYI - Tommy Pad is still available as a download from Alakazam in the UK. I bought one just this week.
Message: Posted by: psychicturtle (May 31, 2008 12:43PM)
The tommypad dvd is coming out soon too. That includes the clipboard version...
Message: Posted by: marky707 (May 31, 2008 01:03PM)
What else will be on the DVD? Will there be effects and so forth? Also what is the price that it will be.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (May 31, 2008 06:43PM)
Patrick Kuffs' from his first DVD-impromptu with business cards.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (May 31, 2008 06:49PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-31 08:33, Majestic12 wrote:
Hi.

Can anyone recommend a good Closeup Drawing Duplication? I have heard great things about Osterlind's , is this the way to go?

Any help would be appreciated.
[/quote]


Yes, that's the way to go.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 1, 2008 03:16AM)
Majestic, go with Richard Osterlind's method. That way you can not loose. I am sure you will be pleased. And for more of a plus, it deals with paper and pencil. It does not need props that need a gimmick. Remember you are showing the audience you are a "mentalist."
Message: Posted by: The Game (Jun 1, 2008 03:31AM)
Man you don't need gimmicks.

Billet switching is the way to go.

If you really are advanced, get Alain Bellon's Obsidian Oblique.
Message: Posted by: Marc Spelmann (Jun 1, 2008 03:50AM)
Toms excellent Tommy Pad is being released on a DVD by Inner Mind Productions (Myself and Peter Nardi)

Everything will be included, Pad, Gizmos, DVD which runs for over an hour with various routines and handlings. The Tommy Pad is very clever and is something I and Peter have used, along with numerous other mentalists and mind readers.

The DVD has been shot and will be ready (hopefully) within the next couple of months.. The only thing holding us back is sourcing everything you require, so there is no hunting around for you once you receive it.

Marc Spelmann
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Jun 1, 2008 05:09AM)
I fully endorse the Tommy Pad - particularly as it helped get me my latest booking!

For those in the UK, WH Smiths is a great source for the pads, especially the elasticated sort.

And like many, am looking forward to the DVD. Thom's a great thinker, and has not only demonstrated it with the Tommy Pad but his Car effect in Kenton Knepper's The Secret. Utterly masterful.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Jun 1, 2008 06:41AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 04:31, Poison wrote:
Man you don't need gimmicks.

Billet switching is the way to go.

If you really are advanced, get Alain Bellon's Obsidian Oblique.
[/quote]

Poison,

I see you have posted the exact same thing in 2 different threads. First of all, I wonder about the name "Poison." I'm sorry, as I know that is a personal choice, but it just doesn't seem very endearing to me. What made you choose that?

And secondly, about the billet issue. Don't you think that many of the posters here are familiar with all kinds of billet techniques? Sometimes it is nice to have an interesting prop or some type of procedure that reinforces effect. If you argument is purism, then plesae explain to me where they use billets in a real ESP testing laboratory?

See, there are many sides to the argument.

Richard
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 1, 2008 06:45AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 07:41, Richard Osterlind wrote:
I see you have posted the exact same thing in 2 different threads. [/quote]

was he trying to perform a design/post duplication?
Message: Posted by: The Game (Jun 1, 2008 08:20AM)
Richard,
I love my name.

I didn't say people aren't aware of billets. I wasn't trying to be original.
When performing mentalism I don't care if people know of past ESP tests or not. I think 90% of them don't know of those kind of tests anyway. I EMPHASIZE the purity using billet techniques which are far better than carrying a gimmick with you. You can perform anytime, anywhere with NOTHING on you. Can you think of a place where there is no paper? Well yes, some rare places. In that case, you can do other routines...

Again, IT IS MY OPINION ONLY - billet techniques are FAR SUPERIOR than other gimmicks you need to carry.

It doesn't mean that the gimmicks are not good. I have IMB and I use it in my stage show for DD as a part from a mind reading routine (billets are included). The board is used becasuse of its size, but if I perform for cocktails and table hopping I only use billets for DD. I get the same response. Simple logic for me.
Message: Posted by: Marc Spelmann (Jun 1, 2008 10:26AM)
If billets work for you Poison then billets it should be..

As everyone nows I use for impromptu situations a Stealth Assassin wallet, it works for me, I use it everyday as a regular wallet and I have 20 minutes in my pocket if I need it. I can do all that is possible with a billets and then some..

I know a very well established performer who shall remain nameless who swears by a gimmicked bloke of business cards which he has all the time, it's not for me but he is well respected and as I have seen, is very effect in his hands.

Again we don't all wear the same trousers but they all suit us and seem to fit..

MS
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 1, 2008 10:41AM)
Exciting experiments in esp - kolb?

my trousers are nice and snug..plenty of room for my tail too..

to be honest, more often than not, I use mr. rigg's beautiful butterfly for mine...

if I'm somewhere slightly well to do, then I'll use my own little method involving an envelope that they've sealed their drawing up in and signed the licked flap (matron!)...
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Jun 1, 2008 11:46AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 09:20, Poison wrote:
Richard,
I love my name.

I didn't say people aren't aware of billets. I wasn't trying to be original.
When performing mentalism I don't care if people know of past ESP tests or not. I think 90% of them don't know of those kind of tests anyway. I EMPHASIZE the purity using billet techniques which are far better than carrying a gimmick with you. You can perform anytime, anywhere with NOTHING on you. Can you think of a place where there is no paper? Well yes, some rare places. In that case, you can do other routines...

Again, IT IS MY OPINION ONLY - billet techniques are FAR SUPERIOR than other gimmicks you need to carry.

It doesn't mean that the gimmicks are not good. I have IMB and I use it in my stage show for DD as a part from a mind reading routine (billets are included). The board is used becasuse of its size, but if I perform for cocktails and table hopping I only use billets for DD. I get the same response. Simple logic for me.
[/quote]


Poison,

No one loves billet routines more than I do. I have demonstrated all kinds of pure billet work on my 4 sets of DVD's. I go through so much paper that Staples sends me a birthday card each year!

My reason for posting was to bring attention to the mistaken idea that one technique is somehow "superior" or "the way to go." There are all kinds of great techniques worth exploring that one should never close their mind to.

Richard
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Jun 1, 2008 12:04PM)
I’m also a tremendous fan of billet techniques, and must say that the method Richard demonstrates on his bonus CD is absolutely fantastic. It’s kind of like a “best of both worlds” technique. Very cool, indeed!!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 1, 2008 01:40PM)
Elliott, I like the bonus DVD with Richard's "No Camera's Tricks." I got a lot more than I expected. Here are some reviews on it: http://magic.about.com/od/magicreview/fr/080707osterlind.htm

It can be purchased at: http://osterlindstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/23/products_id/76

Majestic, you will love "Osterlind Design Duplication System", Mind Mysteries volume 7. I was amased when I first saw it.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Jun 1, 2008 04:52PM)
I agree with Dynamike -go for O.D.D.S. Very pure methodology but with many hidden subtleties. So much scope for a skilled and individualistic presentation and with a truly powerful impact. Richard sells the cards for this effect as well.With respect to my two pet effects O.D.D.S and 'Test Conditions'I have reason to be very grateful to Richard for his generosity in constantly sharing with others the very best of his fruit.
Message: Posted by: bear trees (Jun 1, 2008 06:21PM)
Also asking people to get OO is like asking to get a copy of pure effect for a tenner.It aint never gonna happen bro.

Jason
Message: Posted by: The Game (Jun 3, 2008 09:30AM)
Even after you get OO, it is very hard to master.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 3, 2008 10:49AM)
Poison, I can understand you are heavy with billet switching. If you never tried Richard's "Center Tear Pads", I advise you to give it a try. The paper is thinner and glossy. Eveything works in more of a smother manner. If you are not satified with the paper I will purchase it from you because I use it a lot.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Jun 3, 2008 11:15AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 11:41, abraxus wrote:
***
if I'm somewhere slightly well to do, then I'll use my own little method involving an envelope that they've sealed their drawing up in and signed the licked flap (matron!)...
[/quote]

What's your rationale/motivation for having the volunteer seal their own drawing in an envelope, when they can more simply just hold onto it and conceal it from everyone's view themselves [i]without the envelope[/i]?

Arnon

P.S. This is like Chris Bolter's serial divination, which he performed last night in the Parlour at the Magic Castle. He had a volunteer seal his folded dollar bill in an envelope, and hold onto it during Chris' divination of it on a pad, until just before the theatrical moment of the reveal. The envelope was mere surplusage -the volunteer could have simply held onto his bill instead. Obviously, the use of the envelope was method-driven rather than presentation-driven.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 3, 2008 01:35PM)
Arnon - its performed as a test-conditions piece, so its folded up neatly by them, sealed by them, and signed across the flap by them...we come back to it later during the gig as it takes me a tiny while to get into the "zone" for replication of other people's thoughts...

putting it into an envelope makes it look as fair as possible, and stops the participant getting sore arms...

occasionally I produce a bag of similar envelopes, with dummy pieces of paper in it, they don't sign the flap, but they do drop it into the bag and mix them all up..i find it and then describe their drawing...
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Jun 3, 2008 01:58PM)
Thanks - sounds like that would work very well for you.

I like the use of the same category of prop (similar envelopes) in other effects as well, for continuity of look, plus, IMO, a subtle way to [i]condition[/i] the audience to the use of such props, which will sooner or later make the envelopes "psychologically invisible" to the audience. Do you agree?

Arnon
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 3, 2008 02:02PM)
I suppose - though I've never been fond of that grand title "psychologically invisible" - plain speaking you're right though, they are "just envelopes"...

envelopes are good...
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Jun 3, 2008 02:26PM)
I agree. I have always used envelopes in my act and in all my years of performing, they have never been questioned or queried. And two of my prize effects - Penetration and Empathalope are envelope based.

It is just a case of using them incidently, like a pad of paper.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Jun 3, 2008 02:42PM)
Test Conditions = great way to do "unneeded" things while improving conviction.

This is assuming you do it well of course.
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (Jun 3, 2008 02:45PM)
The earlier mentioned Kuffs method along with the very similar Alain Nu method are both excellent & on top of it all they leave your business card in the spectators hand.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Jun 3, 2008 09:32PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-03 15:02, abraxus wrote:
I suppose - though I've never been fond of that grand title "psychologically invisible" - plain speaking you're right though, they are "just envelopes"...

envelopes are good...
[/quote]

"Psychologically invisible" is a term of art in our field - it is neither grand nor trivial. It has been used by the top thinkers in mentalism, and need be neither exalted nor belittled. I used it neutrally.

IMO, if you're going to perform in a "test conditions" context, then I would vote for Harvey Rosenthal's business card method over Kuffs' "Bold Business" and the commercially marketed "Business Minded" (though both of them are very good too).

On 2008-06-03 15:26, NeilS wrote:
[quote]I agree. I have always used envelopes in my act and in all my years of performing, they have never been questioned or queried. And two of my prize effects - Penetration and Empathalope are envelope based.

It is just a case of using them incidently, like a pad of paper. [/quote]



Neil: Are your two effects available, and if so, how can they be purchased?


Arnon
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 4, 2008 12:56PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-03 22:32, Arnon wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-03 15:02, abraxus wrote:
I suppose - though I've never been fond of that grand title "psychologically invisible" - plain speaking you're right though, they are "just envelopes"...

envelopes are good...
[/quote]

"Psychologically invisible" is a term of art in our field - it is neither grand nor trivial. It has been used by the top thinkers in mentalism, and need be neither exalted nor belittled. I used it neutrally.

IMO, if you're going to perform in a "test conditions" context, then I would vote for Harvey Rosenthal's business card method over Kuffs' "Bold Business" and the commercially marketed "Business Minded" (though both of them are very good too).

Arnon
[/quote]

give it a rest arnon...


10 syllables is far too much for my tiny brain to contend with on a daily basis, I have a surprising background in writing (for my other job) in a Plain English standard, where you have to reduce down aeolistic paragraphs into easily understood chunks of info.

Which is then read out via screen-reading software such as JAWS for visually-impared people.

Anyway, drop the teacher/lawyer hats please...
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 5, 2008 05:23PM)
I just thought, it's also a quick and easy way to get a second person involved with the next effect, if they miss with their drawing its "never mind, we all need time to warm up our mental faculties..." and then name anything positive in their drawing that may be similar..if they hit, even partially..

"spectacular - thank you both so much, would you be kind enough to stay with me for this next experiment, thank you..."

and just send back the original drawer back with a thanks and a round of applause...