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Topic: Card Warp Finale by Paul Green
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Jun 2, 2008 11:29AM)
Just received this DVD and it is fantastic. Paul taught this at a lecture
I was at a few years ago, but couldn't put it in print or on video. He taught
a number of tweaks to Walton's Card Warp and included a strong ending. Of
course with a memory that lasts a short time, buy the time I was home most was
forgotten except that it was the best CW I had seen. Now it's on DVD with
Walton's blessing and Paul has included every little move and line he uses. A great
job by Paul and Kozmo.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 2, 2008 11:34AM)
Tom, thanks for letting us all know!
Message: Posted by: magic-upclose (Jun 2, 2008 12:01PM)
Hi, is there a demo? Are retailers selling it already?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 2, 2008 01:19PM)
http://kozmomagic.com

$20 and that inlcudes shipping.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Jun 2, 2008 04:23PM)
There might be a demo on Kozmo's site, but Card Warp is really well known, it's
the touches and ending Paul uses that kicks it up..
Message: Posted by: Tim Trono (Jun 2, 2008 05:15PM)
This is GOOD!

Tim
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Jun 2, 2008 11:35PM)
There is a trailer, but it doesn't show the ending, although for a brief moment at the end it does suggest the direction that ending might go in.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Jun 3, 2008 07:36PM)
Paul's a great guy & recently won Close Up Magician of the Year from the Magic Castle.
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Jun 6, 2008 08:38AM)
I love Card Warp, and really intend to work it up into one of my regular pieces. But a whole dvd on an ending? Is this something that could easily be a paragraph in Genii?
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jun 6, 2008 10:33AM)
If you do card warp you WILL use this ending and that makes it worth $20

koz
Message: Posted by: Philip Milton (Jun 6, 2008 04:54PM)
I understand not showing the ending in the demo as anyone who knows the method of Card Warp could quite easily recreate it but could someone at least tell us what the finale effect is. It seems slightly ridiculous that (even with Paul Greens name on it) anyone would expect someone to buy a product that has no description of the actual effect they are buying.
phil
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 6, 2008 06:01PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-06 09:38, ross welford wrote:
I love Card Warp, and really intend to work it up into one of my regular pieces. But a whole dvd on an ending? Is this something that could easily be a paragraph in Genii?
[/quote]

You get 2 live performances of the full routine at the Magic Castle. You then get instruction on Paul's full routine plus his ending. All of that ( the instruction ) could not have been put in a paragraph in Genii.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Jun 6, 2008 08:30PM)
I found it wasn't just the ending but some good bits of business along the way.

Tom
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 6, 2008 09:34PM)
Have I seen this before, maybe a couple years ago?
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 7, 2008 01:56PM)
Card Warp material? How did this slide past me? I loooove Card Warp! I've been doing Wesley James handling but am always looking for ideas. Oh boy this is great! I've not seen it yet but if it is as well done as Pauls In The Treanches DVD (which you all should have or you should be practicing mime or something other than magic) it should be great.
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Jun 7, 2008 11:24PM)
I can only speak as a consumer of magic product. How can you possibly justify selling a single trick DVD for $30.00? let alone a trick ending for $20.00?

David Regal’s new book [i]Approaching Magic[/i] costs $75.00, and includes ten of the best essays on performing you will ever read, and dozens of excellent card tricks, platform tricks, and comedy mentalism.

As a smart consumer of magic, I can tell you how I would spend my money.

If you purchase stuff like this, you’re just asking for more overpriced magic “product.”
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 7, 2008 11:35PM)
I peformed Paul Green's entire routine tonight ( using my own lines from my own Card Warp routine ). Why did I use his routine? Because it was better than mine.

The DVD features two full performances, instruction and tips for the strolling performer. It DOES NOT just teach an ending.

If it was $100, it was priced too low.
Message: Posted by: baou1986 (Jun 8, 2008 01:48AM)
Sorry,i didn't see any improving card warp in demo.It just similar with the old one.
Also,there are no description of the ending.
Who want to purchase a unknown magic effect ?

Please,explain what is the ending effect ,it wolud let someone interest on this
Message: Posted by: Andi Peters (Jun 8, 2008 05:50AM)
I'd rather buy the world's greatest magic dvd on the cardwarp. You get more routines.

With this and the 'I hate David Copperfield Trick' being released as single trick DVDs I wonder if Kozmo is losing his focus on providing genuine value for money like he does on Real Magic Quarterly.
Message: Posted by: sokarnl (Jun 8, 2008 06:54AM)
Baou1986: as I understand they will not show the ending or other ideas on the demo, just to portect them.

robert
Message: Posted by: JohnG (Jun 8, 2008 09:14AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-08 00:35, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
The DVD features two full performances, instruction and tips for the strolling performer. It DOES NOT just teach an ending.
[/quote]

So Christopher, the DVD does not teach an ending? I thought the very nature of the DVD was to tip Paul Green's Finale or ending to the routine. Is it that he shows you the finale he uses and it just needs not explanation because it's inherent to the performance?

John G
Message: Posted by: kenodad (Jun 8, 2008 09:22AM)
John G,
Chris said it does not teach JUST an ending. It his Paul Green's entire presentation with a nice ending. So you are not buying JUST an ending. If you know/do the trick, you get a nice ending for $20; if you do not know/do the trick, you get it all for $20. I like the DVD; I think it is worth it. The ending is probably not shown on the demo (I own the trick, but have not seen the demo).
John
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Jun 8, 2008 09:22AM)
John,

Chris's post says "it does not <just> teach an ending". There are Pauls lines and
bits of business along the way to the ending that you might find useful in your routine. I saw Paul perform this years ago and thought it was the best I had seen.
Not cluttered with "improvements" and an ending for it...

Tom
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jun 9, 2008 03:09PM)
The routine is simple. and seeing again a more simplified handling convienced me, to stop doing the close version with the bill. I'm doing the basic routine with somthing similar to close's patter and iv found you can do the optical illuision with a card just as well as you could with the bill.

as far as the finale itsself, I think its great. its almost a "why didn't I think of that!" kind of thing. I rarly find value in one trick dvd's but I find this to be a solid exception
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 9, 2008 03:56PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-09 16:09, Joshua Barrett wrote:
The routine is simple. and seeing again a more simplified handling convienced me, to stop doing the close version with the bill. I'm doing the basic routine with somthing similar to close's patter and iv found you can do the optical illuision with a card just as well as you could with the bill.

as far as the finale itsself, I think its great. its almost a "why didn't I think of that!" kind of thing. I rarly find value in one trick dvd's but I find this to be a solid exception
[/quote]

Paul's basic rotuine is better than others I've seen. I stopped doing it with cards and adopted the Mike CLose version with a bill ( Dr. Strangetrick ).

The bill takes the heat off the gimmick card. But..with Paul's basic version, there is no heat on the card. It's typical Paul Green thinking that makes it so practical.

Ah, the optical illusion display from the Close rotuine. The display is the creation of Richard Myer, an amateur magician from Carmel, California, who misread the original instructions and created a jaw dropping improvement to Mike's original published version.

It can be done with cards and make's the routine go from a trick to a miracle.

Richard Myer could have kept this to himself forever, but instead shared it with the community. A nice lesson to all the "professional" magicians that hide their secrets and insteading of advancing the art, keep it crawling.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 9, 2008 06:29PM)
The "optical illusion" ?
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Jun 9, 2008 06:47PM)
I guess we're talking about the bit where you open up the bill and show the whole length of the card. Not actually an optical illusion as such - more a very convincing display. I've just tried it with a card, and it works, well sort of!
Message: Posted by: mclose (Jun 9, 2008 08:07PM)
No. Richard Myer's addition allows the spectators to see three-quarters of the card change as the card is pushed back and forth.

It's a thing of beauty, and it fools me every time I do it. (And I do this trick a lot.)

Close
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 9, 2008 09:00PM)
Mike, is that Richard Myers out of the Carmel/Monterey area?

I just watched the DVD and I think it is worth getting if you want to learn to do Card Warp and are a DVD oriented person. It is well shot, typical of Kozmo Magic. To be honest the ending is one I encountered messing with the effect but I never considered it as a routine and hats off to Paul for doing so. It is a very nice ending. That being said and this won't be of much value to most I think that Wes James Hyper Warp is a better presentation and ending. Since I think that Wes' routine is only available in his book, which may not be available now, then it may be tough kittens for those that don't have it. This is a good DVD though to learn the trick from and is a nice handling.

Wait, I just read back and saw that it is the same Rich Myer that I know. I think it should be noted that since Rich retired from the airlines it is a safe bet to say he is a professional magician now.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 9, 2008 09:14PM)
Richard is a retired airline pilot from Carmel, California.

His display is one of the most beautiful in all of magic. If I ever meet Rich, I'll drop to my knees spouting "we're not worthy".

I say display, but it's not static, or still. The card, as you move it, changes. So, I think optical illusion would be an appropriate description. I'll defer to Mike Close on that.

No matter how many times I perfom it, I'm just as fooled as the audience.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 9, 2008 10:23PM)
If you are ever in the bay area hit the IBM in San Jose or SAM in Palo Alto or even the Santa Cruz meets, Rich is usually there. He's a very nice guy. Rich told me a few years ago that he would take one trick with him when he flew from SFO to Australia, his regular route, and once there he had to take a couple days off to rest before the return flight so he'd work on that one trick the entire time. Rich's display is in Workers?

In Wes' display he shows the card to be completely changed twice, meaning you see the length of the card face outward then back outward, killer huh?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 9, 2008 10:59PM)
Dr. Strangetrick is in Workers Volume One. Perhaps when Mike re-released the series in e-book form he added Rich's display? Anyone?
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Jun 10, 2008 06:38AM)
I'm with ya: the bit where you fold the corners back. It's great!

BUT - and this is exciting - I discovered (by mistake - see above!) that you CAN do the "whole length" card display using a card and not a bill It's a bit angly, and you can only give a quick flash (kind of an afterthought) but it may be useful to someone...
(Come to think of it, it might make a separate dvd...;))
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 10, 2008 12:34PM)
The Paul Green DVD is worth it just just for the tips on strolling with this effect.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Jun 10, 2008 04:55PM)
Any news on the crediting issue this has been plaqued with?

For those that don't know, Michael Weber has sent Paul Green a note that Green is using Weber's handling, which he showed to Green, and Green does NOT have permission to use it. This is enough to keep me from buying this until it is resolved.

Here is the quote from Richard Kaufman on his website:
[quote]
Weber sent out a note to Paul Green, which he copied to me (and I assume others) where he definitely states that the item is his, that he showed it to Paul Green, and that Paul did not have permission to release it.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 10, 2008 10:25PM)
I said this on the other thread...Weber is listed in the beginning as one who Paul discussed the work with, Weber is also part of the credits. Any claim that there is no credit to Weber in any capicity is completely false, check out the DVD and see for yourself.

Okay, when did Weber claim he created this? I also stumbled across the end condition of the card and I hereby state that I created it and never discussed it, or anything else, with Weber. Being that I now claim creation until someone proves me wrong I also give Paul permission to use it as he pleases. Thank you.

The full showing of both inside out and outside it is done slowly and unless the spectator has xray vision they are not going to see anything. I don't know if it is any of Wesley James notes but it is in his big book of card magic called Enchantments. It is a great book if you can find it.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 10, 2008 10:26PM)
Hey, didn't Weber write Lifesavers which he claimed Kaufman reprinted illegally?
Message: Posted by: Elliott Hodges (Jun 12, 2008 09:16AM)
Guys,

Can his Card Warp finale be done with Jumbo Cards?
I'm interested because I have done it CW in a stand up situation with Jumbo cards.

cheers
Message: Posted by: Doc Dixon (Jun 12, 2008 12:33PM)
While this doesn't relate to this dvd, there's a wonderful handling touch for card warp that was created by Bob Torkova. It enables you to push the "warped card" the entire way through the cover card in one very clean motion. This description doesn't it do it justice, but it's a really nice touch worth tracking down. I learned it looooong ago from a magic magazine, but I have no idea which one or when.

If anyone knows where to find this, please post.

DD
Message: Posted by: mclose (Jun 12, 2008 05:40PM)
At the risk of having my post deleted again:

Michael Weber showed me this ending for Card Warp more than 25 years ago. He performed it in my presence several other times since then.

Paul mentions Michael's name on the DVD, but he did not have the courtesy to ask permission to put the ending on the DVD (a courtesy he afforded Ali Bongo, Simon Aronson, Bruce Cervon, and others when he published variations of their routines). Nor did he ask Michael permission to teach this in lectures, which he has been doing for several years.

This is not a case of an old fart misremembering something that happened a quarter of a century ago. I traffic in ideas, and I remember a really good one when I see it. The ending on the DVD is Weber's.

Close
Message: Posted by: mclose (Jun 12, 2008 05:42PM)
MagicSanta:

I believe your comment about Lifesavers is entirely incorrect; you are thinking a different magician. You need to be more careful before you send a comment like that out into the universe.

Best

Close
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 12, 2008 06:34PM)
The matter should have been handled privately between Weber and Green. Or.......Michael Weber should have come here and posted about it himself.

Does Weber think he's Don Corleone and Mike Close is his Luca Brasi?

Mike CLose: Don Weber, how will you get Green to concede the ending is yours?

Weber: I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.....I want you to send Green a "Magician's message". During the convention, I want you to pants Green in front of his peers, so this type of thing never happens again.

BADA BING, BABY!!!
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Jun 12, 2008 08:56PM)
This is ridiculous.

It was a private matter between Green and Weber before Green decided to start sharing the idea and to make money off it. When that decision was made, it became a public one. Every day that nothing is done is a day that Green is making money off the product. If that product is illegitimate, if Green is making money that should be going to Weber OR shouldn't be going to anybody because Weber doesn't want it out there, then that's an important issue. Either Green is doing something unethical here, or Weber's being a jerk. I for one want to know which it is. One of the two is making an incorrect claim on the ownership of the material here, and I'd like to know who that might be.

Frankly, I'm amazed, Christopher, that as somebody who spends so much time lashing out at Magic Makers, you're choosing not to see this point.

Personally, I'm appreciative of what Michael Close is doing here, so much so that I'm violating my self-imposed ban on Magic Café discussions to lend my support.

Not that it'll matter, because it'll get deleted anyway, I'm sure.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jun 12, 2008 09:17PM)
I just watched this today. I thought the routine itself was very pedestrian. And, I didn't like the ending all that much.

To me, the best ending for Card Warp is the one Doug Henning performed on TV many years ago.

JMO,
Robert
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 12, 2008 09:26PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-12 21:56, erlandish wrote:

....Frankly, I'm amazed, Christopher, that as somebody who spends so much time lashing out at Magic Makers, you're choosing not to see this point.

Personally, I'm appreciative of what Michael Close is doing here, so much so that I'm violating my self-imposed ban on Magic Café discussions to lend my support....

[/quote]

I knew it was nicer around here for some reason, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Please feel free to impose the ban again. lol.

Being an outsider and not able to look at the bigger picture, you compare apples to oranges.

You see, this is between two veterans in the magic world. It should have been handled privately.

Yes, Mike Close put on his red cape and swoooped into the Café and saved the world. This under $20, if it's any indication of other so called "one trick DVD's", won't be making anyone wealthy.

Oh that's right, it's the priciple of the thing. Then why doesn't Mike Close spend his time going though every post on the Café and right the wrongs of all the releases in magic? Why did he pick this and only this disucssion?
Message: Posted by: PaulGreen (Jun 12, 2008 09:45PM)
Hello everyone,

This was posted on the Genii Forum. Perhaps it will remain here:

"Hi everyone,

Time for me, once again, to chime in.

Michael Weber and I have been in communication. He asked me what I remembered when he and I discussed Card Warp. I did share with him my recollections. Further, he asked me why I did not consult him prior to releasing the DVD or lecturing on the item. I also addressed that with Michael Weber, directly.

Yes, Michael Weber showed me a display ending for Card Warp. To my memory, it was different then what I developed. Michael Weber, and his loyal friends disagree.

I chose not to consult Michael Weber before releasing the item because I felt that what I had developed was significantly different from what I recall. Aaronson, Bongo, Cervon, & Lewis were contacted because the material I used in my routines was without variation. Michael Weber felt that I should have contacted him.

What we have here is a difference of opinion. Nothing I say will change anyone's mind. I stand by my recollections (I don't think my memory has "failed") and by my actions. I know that both Michael Weber and I are serious about the Art of Magic. I do my best to credit and obtain permission when I see fit. I have apologized to Michael for not contacting him.

Michael Weber and I are communicating. Richard Kaufman, Jon Racherbaumer, Bob Farmer, & Michael Close have high-profile positions within the Magic Community and when they offer their opinions, people listen. I will not attack Michael Weber or his supporters. I don't think that Michael Weber needs to personally post his feelings to clear the air, and I would like anyone that is pressuring him for a response to stop. Can't we all move forward?

I feel as if I am most hated person in Magic (not withstanding J. B.). The loss of friends and reputation is punishment enough.

Respectfully,

Paul Green"
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Jun 12, 2008 10:23PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-12 22:26, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-12 21:56, erlandish wrote:

....Frankly, I'm amazed, Christopher, that as somebody who spends so much time lashing out at Magic Makers, you're choosing not to see this point.

Personally, I'm appreciative of what Michael Close is doing here, so much so that I'm violating my self-imposed ban on Magic Café discussions to lend my support....

[/quote]

I knew it was nicer around here for some reason, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Please feel free to impose the ban again. lol.
[/quote]

Oh... Classy, Chris. Well done.

[quote]
Being an outsider and not able to look at the bigger picture, you compare apples to oranges.
[/quote]

I'm sorry if I lack the requisite 9000 Magic Café posts that would make me an insider and therefore permitted to offer an opinion on the topic. The question is who has true ownership of the contents of the DVD, which is directly comparable to the things Magic Makers has done in the past and that you've openly argued against. Personally, I'm open to the possibility that Weber is making a gross mistake here and damaging the reputation of an innocent magician. That said, we're not about to get to the bottom of this with all discussion being suppressed.

I, as a consumer, like to be informed of these things. Discussions like these have value to me, since I don't like to purchase things in ignorance.

[quote]
Yes, Mike Close put on his red cape and swoooped into the Café and saved the world. This under $20, if it's any indication of other so called "one trick DVD's", won't be making anyone wealthy.

Oh that's right, it's the priciple of the thing. Then why doesn't Mike Close spend his time going though every post on the Café and right the wrongs of all the releases in magic? Why did he pick this and only this disucssion?
[/quote]

From where I see it, Michael saw an issue that wasn't being addressed, and he addressed it. Your suggestion is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. What's more, with all the Café deletions that go on in these situations, historical records are shoddy at best.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 12, 2008 11:07PM)
Lem and ...erlandish ( is that your name????? )

In the begining I stated and still do, that it should have been handled privatley.

Why aren't you both asking Michael Close why he doesn't chime in on every thread about Magic Makers? He doesn't because he is only interested in this thread because it is about his friend, Michael Weber. He "knows" Paul Green, but Paul isn't his friend.

You see, you both don't look at the bigger picture. Michael Weber is saying this handling is his. It's not published anywhere. You both are stating your opinions only on what Mike Close is saying.

So...who else was present when Weber and Green had there conversation 30 years ago? It doesn't matter what Weber showed his friends at a later date. It isn't publsihed anywhere, so we're going by memories and such.

I've never met Michael Weber or Paul Green ( or Mike CLose ). I look at it as they are part of an inner circle of magic. It's not a veteran and a 20 year old kid new to the business. It's two veterans and it should have been handled privately. Green is talking with Weber and was doing so before this public lynching.

It's two verterans of magic that have different memeories of what they discussed.
It's over an ending to a trick that... neither of them invented.

And Lem and er..whatever your name is, you both have bought things that if you knew the backroom history of it, you'd both be angry over it's release ( according to your posts on this subject ).

But you aren't angry. Why? Listen closely..BECAUSE THE ISSUE WAS HANDLED PRIVATELY! You don't have a clue as to the history of most the things you use. You get all your information from "public" forums.

So, both of you should stop performing all the magic you love, because there is something you both perform that...and accoriding to your high moral standards...you shouldn't be.

When I take a stand on an issue, I have privately researched it. The both of you should do the same instead of reading one post by a well know magciian and jumping on your high moral horse.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 12, 2008 11:17PM)
[quote]
PaulGreen wrote:

Michael Weber and I are communicating.
[/quote]
Geez guys, what part of this sentence isn't making sense?

Nobody here can offer up any further illumination, and Mike has once again stated his memory of events......OK, we've all read it now.
Most folks are pretty smart around here, and more than capable of understanding what it is that they're reading, and perhaps even doing a bit of reading between the lines.

But enough from guys who aren't involved other than to continue to stir the pot......myself included.

Let the two gentlemen actually involved in this thing continue their communication in peace.

(and remind me to check a dictionary, I recall that there's a HUGE difference between "disagreement" and "rip-off"........if rip-off's even in there :) )
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 12, 2008 11:31PM)
Silverking said "I recall that there's a HUGE difference between "disagreement" and "rip-off".

Thank you for posting and putting the issue in perspective.
Message: Posted by: PaulGreen (Jun 12, 2008 11:38PM)
Lemiscafe,

I have no way of contacting you privately. Please be so kind as to contact me via PM (if you choose) and provide an email address. I do wish to address some of your concerns mentioned above.

Respectfully,

Paul Green
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Jun 13, 2008 12:29AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-13 00:07, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
You see, you both don't look at the bigger picture. Michael Weber is saying this handling is his. It's not published anywhere. You both are stating your opinions only on what Mike Close is saying.
[/quote]

I can't speak for Lemiscafe, but my interest is based upon the communications that Close, Kaufman and others have received from Weber himself that are documented more thoroughly at the Genii forum, where Weber states that it is his routine being copied. My main concern is to see if that's true or false. Frankly, if it involves a product that's on the market, this is good information to have out there. Similarly, if Paul Green can demonstrate that it's not his, then some people are making irresponsible accusations and THAT should be made public.

[quote]It's two verterans of magic that have different memeories of what they discussed.
It's over an ending to a trick that... neither of them invented.
[/quote]

Daryl didn't invent the Ambitious Card trick either, but if anybody copied his climax to the ACR without his permission, there'd be a firestorm, and rightfully so.

[quote]
And Lem and er..whatever your name is, you both have bought things that if you knew the backroom history of it, you'd both be angry over it's release ( according to your posts on this subject ).

But you aren't angry. Why? Listen closely..BECAUSE THE ISSUE WAS HANDLED PRIVATELY! You don't have a clue as to the history of most the things you use. You get all your information from "public" forums.

So, both of you should stop performing all the magic you love, because there is something you both perform that...and accoriding to your high moral standards...you shouldn't be.
[/quote]

I'm sorry Christopher, but unless you can make an accurate list of the things I and Lem have bought and the magic we've performed, this statement is ridiculous.

[quote]
When I take a stand on an issue, I have privately researched it. The both of you should do the same instead of reading one post by a well know magciian and jumping on your high moral horse.
[/quote]

I didn't bother to get involved until I saw that Richard Kaufman and several others over at the Genii forums confirmed that there was an issue. At that point, when I came back here and started seeing the flack that Michael Close was getting for his attempt to bring up the issue, it was obvious something needed to be said.

And Christopher, there's no need to send any more personal messages with you giggling about how everybody hates me. I honestly don't really care.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 01:25AM)
Erlandfish, when you put your real picture and post your full name, I guess we'll take you more serious.

And of course you are so smart to stay in the back ground until Richard Kaufman posted his thoughts.

Is that the same Richard Kaufman that said Erdnase was anitiquated? Of course, he later recanted his "position". Yes, I'd follow him over the cliff over any issue. LOL!!!

That was before your time..so...maybe you don't have all the answers that you profess to have? Think...BIGGER PICTURE!
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Jun 13, 2008 02:07AM)
Erlandfish...? Is that honestly the best you can do? Are you TRYING to invoke pity?

Who I am in this is immaterial. I came to voice my support for Michael Close in trying to make this issue known to the Magic Café. If people want to dismiss that because I post under a pseudonym, that's fine.

What's more, your comment about Kaufman is irrelevant. He talked about a message he received directly from Michael Weber, and others confirmed that they got it too. It was that message that solidified the fact that there was an issue, not Kaufman's personal position on the issue. If you'd like to educate yourself on that, go over to the Genii forum and read up on it.

With that, I see no need to participate further here.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 02:11AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-13 03:07, erlandish wrote:
Erlandfish...? Is that honestly the best you can do? Are you TRYING to invoke pity?

Who I am in this is immaterial. I came to voice my support for Michael Close in trying to make this issue known to the Magic Café.
[/quote]

Is that not your name?

Yes, Mike Close needs your support. Where would he be without you?
:rotf:
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Jun 13, 2008 08:08AM)
Christopher,

WTF, man?!!? You have this huge chip on your shoulder lately. You know, it is possible to disagree with people without being juvenile and insulting. It's not helpful and doesn't lend to the conversation, the dialogue. Now, if you just want to hear yourself talk, there are places for monologues. Frankly though, I'm interested in more than just your opinion. You've expressed yours, why not let everyone else express theirs.

Mark

PS Who Erlandish isn't the issue, but the information is right there in front of you in his signature if your interested. He's the author of a very good, and very widely read magic blog. There are many good reasons for NOT using real names on an internet forums, security being foremost. Why don't you just give that particular issue a rest?
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 13, 2008 08:44AM)
Yeah his blog is a pretty good read.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Jun 13, 2008 08:45AM)
I certainly hope this whole thing ends up on a good foot. I really thought as has been suggested that the issue was between the two parties. The more I read (on another forum, more so) that Michael Weber contacted a number of names to state his case, was it venting or trying to form a hit team, only he would know. So many of them have come forward to say it is without a doubt Michaels ending, here's something else, one of them said Michael had no knowledge that Paul was using or teaching this in lectures. What? None of them in all these years mentioned this to Michael... or Paul?? Odd. Independent creation? Why it is a great ending, it's not so unique that a dozen others couldn't have come up with it on their own. Magic Santa said he did, what if he had put out the DVD?? Seems
like a whole lot of stress over an ending to a card trick... JMO
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Jun 13, 2008 08:54AM)
It's a rare occasion that Michael Weber releases anything to the market. Can you blame him? Several years ago I was going to release an effect and Micheal Weber found it and called me. I didn't know him personally, but I found him to be a gentlemen. Turns out he had been doing something very similar for years and asked that I didn't sell my version. I agreed and it was never released.

It was the right thing to do. While I could have justified it in a number of ways - standard effect, independent creation, etc. it just isn't worth it to create hard feelings.

Christopher, I think you're making Michael Weber out to be a bully and it's just not the case. Out of all the effects that come out every year, why is he going after Paul Green for this? How many "Weber controversies" are there? What I'm trying to say is that he wouldn't have taken the actions he did had he not known he was right and originated the ending.

PS - regarding Mark Raven's comments about pseudo-names here. Aside from security being an issue, online persona is another one. If you are a working pro you should have some control over your name when it's Googled. Personally I don't want my clients finding my posts here.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 10:26AM)
I think from spirited debate you can learn so much. But...a close friend, who has an account on the Café, called me after reading this thread and gave me some insight on certain things that have been touched on here.

I'll share one interesting thought he had. "Chris, you're wearing formal attire and trying to debate important issues at a masquerade party". I laughed so hard. So, this weekend I'll go to the costume shop to pick out something fun. I look forward to rejoining you all again.

I'll bow out of this thread, since I can't top the Godfather reference I made;-)
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jun 13, 2008 11:18AM)
Despite my negative review of this, I would hate to think that Paul has lost friends or damaged his reputation irreparably over this. He certainly does not deserve the title of the second most hated person in magic.

Robert
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 13, 2008 11:54AM)
Second hatest person in magic? Who is first? I gots'a know! Is it me? Dang.

A couple things. Erlandish is a good guy and has been around. Michael Close is a great guy, so is Paul Green, so is Kaufman. I don't know Weber.

The simple fact is the key move, the ending, of this routine has been 'created' by dozens upon dozens of magicians because it is based on an incomplete move. It is still a good ending for the routine. It isn't brilliant, it is just good and it is a just good ending for a great effect, got that? Card Warp great, this ending okay, Wes James ending great, regular ending okay. How many do you think did card warp with a business card? Should someone who did it years ago be allowed to run rough shod over everyone else who stumbled across the less the brilliant idea of using business cards, or bills, or a bill and a card?

Like I said, I created this and didn't 'release it' over 20 years ago and since others can't play nice I still claim it, and that means nothing.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 12:27PM)
I don't have to wear my new costume for this post;-)

Here's what happened: The DVD was released and posts were made here on the Café.

and then...Michael Close made his first post. If it was Michael Weber that posted it was his ending that he showed Paul, the conversation in this public forum would have had a different tone.

Close could have come on right after and said what he did. By being first, it set the tone for future posts.

I say that because I've been in contact with Michael Weber. He's a smart, very funny guy. If he had written about this, the issue would have pretty much ended until he and Paul came to an understanding that could be announced.

As with magic, it's all in the presentation.
Message: Posted by: ixnay66 (Jun 13, 2008 12:32PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-13 09:08, Mark Raven wrote:
Christopher,

WTF, man?!!? You have this huge chip on your shoulder lately. You know, it is possible to disagree with people without being juvenile and insulting. It's not helpful and doesn't lend to the conversation, the dialogue. Now, if you just want to hear yourself talk, there are places for monologues. Frankly though, I'm interested in more than just your opinion. You've expressed yours, why not let everyone else express theirs.

Mark

PS Who Erlandish isn't the issue, but the information is right there in front of you in his signature if your interested. He's the author of a very good, and very widely read magic blog. There are many good reasons for NOT using real names on an internet forums, security being foremost. Why don't you just give that particular issue a rest?
[/quote]

I'm with Mark on this. Chris is acting like a little kid and he's not helping this thread at all.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jun 13, 2008 12:55PM)
I know who the most hated person in magic is! Same guy as it has for years, use to be in the Oakland area, Pete Biro knows him...
Message: Posted by: Daren (Jun 13, 2008 01:34PM)
Isn't this supposed to be a review area?
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jun 13, 2008 02:02PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-13 13:55, MagicSanta wrote:
I know who the most hated person in magic is! Same guy as it has for years, use to be in the Oakland area, Pete Biro knows him...
[/quote]

You got it.

Robert (still waiting for my Fred Braue Notebooks)
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 02:33PM)
Jeff Busby used to have the title.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jun 13, 2008 04:02PM)
Bingo.

Back to Card Warp Finale....

Robert
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Jun 13, 2008 04:27PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-13 09:08, Mark Raven wrote:
Christopher,

WTF, man?!!? You have this huge chip on your shoulder lately. You know, it is possible to disagree with people without being juvenile and insulting. It's not helpful and doesn't lend to the conversation, the dialogue. Now, if you just want to hear yourself talk, there are places for monologues. Frankly though, I'm interested in more than just your opinion. You've expressed yours, why not let everyone else express theirs.

Mark

PS Who Erlandish isn't the issue, but the information is right there in front of you in his signature if your interested. He's the author of a very good, and very widely read magic blog. There are many good reasons for NOT using real names on an internet forums, security being foremost. Why don't you just give that particular issue a rest?
[/quote]

For the record, I agree with the above post, realize that I have been somewhat of an instigator and apologize.

I offer the following not as an excuse, merely as an explanation:
In any case, I've been really ill and posted when I was in a foul mood, I apologize. I still vehemently disagree but it got too personal and I regret that to no end.

Lem

PS- To nobody in particular, just ranting:

I am so sick of the "not real name argument", so let me just say this now: I had somebody steal my identity. If you haven't gone through that, you have no idea what it is like, and to try to use it as an insult or to degrade what I have to say, all you are doing is showing your ignorance. Besides, what does "Joe Blow" provide more than "jbl"? Nothing but it is an easy way to pick on somebody without actually having to use logic or stay on topic. It's sad and just makes you look ignorant.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 04:58PM)
I had my identity stolen. What a nightmare. The fellow that took it called me and was furious when he got my credit report. He was turned down for everything.
:rotf:
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Jun 13, 2008 05:46PM)
I really didn't want to laugh because that is almost like it was for me (backwards of course), but I couldn't help myself.

The worst thing was, it all happened while I was, literally, out of the country (applications for credit, use of my credit cards, etc.). Yet the police wanted NOTHING to do with it. My hometown police told me to contact the police in the cities where it happened but those police told me to contact my hometown police.

Finally, after cajoling, my hometown police took a report "as a courtesy". Let's not even talk about the fact that you need it as evidence for your creditors and such.

Ok, ranting again, sorry.

Yours truly,
Octothorp or, the guy previously named Lemniscate
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Jun 13, 2008 06:16PM)
My credit was stolen but I did'nt mind because the thief was spending less with it then my wife!
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Jun 13, 2008 06:44PM)
Back to topic

FYI:

PMed Paul Green and he responded with a very detailed note explaining his position. While I am not at liberty to repeat what he said, much of it, if not all, is already out here. There is one thing that I wanted to say publicly that I told him.

I admire that he is tackling this head on, communicating both with us and Weber. It would be very easy to completely ignore what was going on and it takes guts to face controversy. I told him that sticking to his guns, whether or not I agree specifically (and I haven't decided for sure yet) is pretty impressive.

I did not mean anything personal and if any of the names were flipped, changed, or modified, my stance would have been the same.

Thank you for communicating, Mr. Green. I still hope this can be resolved soon and with everybody winning.

Octo
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 13, 2008 07:09PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-13 17:02, Robert M wrote:
Bingo.

Back to Card Warp Finale....

Robert
[/quote]

Okay - how much fun is Paul's routine and how cool is Michael Weber's ending?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 07:22PM)
Paul's routine is like any other time you've seen him on tape ( in The Trenches DVD ) : it's funny and the audience is involved. I liked the ending as it's very visual. When this issue is solved, I plan on using it.
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jun 13, 2008 11:36PM)
Paul Green is an upstanding guy....one of the nicest guys in magic PERIOD! and I can tell you that the money that he made on this thing is not worth anything close to this.....i don't know mike weber but I have heard great things about him...

heres my opinion...this is a private matter and we don't the magic police in on this one....paul green contacted mike weber as soon as he heard this was an issue...because hes an upstanding guy...let them deal with it and stop this thread!

I can tell you from a private view that paul green is one of the nicest people I have ever met....and all of this stuff here on the net should simply stop...

let mike weber and paul green deal with this on their own

koz
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 13, 2008 11:58PM)
I've never met any of the folks involved in this. I've been a huge Paul Green fan over the years.

I recently had the pleasure of some PM's with Michael Weber and I appologize if my trying to be funny cast him in any light other than the classy guy he is, that LOVES the Art of magic, because he's all of that and more.

Sometimes bad things happen and it's an opportunity for people to learn grow. I appreciate everyone that has been involved to help me with that.

Father's Day is Sunday. GOD bless everyone and I hope you can be with your Dad, or be a Dad!

Christopher
Message: Posted by: Motor City (Jun 15, 2008 03:04PM)
Paul Green is one of the nicest and most honest magicians I have ever met. PERIOD.
Message: Posted by: Torkova (Jul 3, 2008 09:24PM)
FYI, my handling for a finale with Card Warp originally appeared in Eric DeCamp's column in Tannen's Magic Manuscript in the mid-late 1980s. I don't remember the exact date but Frank Garcia was on the cover. It also appeared in my lecture notes which are now out of print. This was the first original move I ever came up with and am pleased it was received so well.

Bobby Torkova
Message: Posted by: baou1986 (Jul 3, 2008 11:35PM)
I watch the card warp final part demo,

There are nothing special,who know how to do card warp,after watch the demo,they know how to do it.

also,not a big surprise ending for spectator
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 4, 2008 12:09AM)
I performed this ending and they were in fact surpirsed. Now in my finish, I tear the card up and restore it. But, ulness you perform the ending on the DVD for real people, you can't judge how they will react.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Aug 2, 2008 03:21AM)
I watched the DVD again today. I just love the way Paul Green performs. He so natural.
Message: Posted by: Rich B. (Sep 1, 2008 05:28PM)
I saw Paul Green lecture twice...and found him to be a great guy with great material. I really enjoyed his lectures. I only know Mike Weber from some of his published routines.

That being said, John Lovick reviewed the Card Warp DVD in question in the Sept. issue of Magic magazine and after his extensive research on the ending of this version of card warp, he determined it belonged to Mike Weber and recommended to not buy the DVD.

I hope all is eventually cleared up.

Rich B.
Message: Posted by: TAJ (Sep 1, 2008 08:55PM)
How does this ending compare with Michael Ammars presentation on ETMCM2?

Taj
Message: Posted by: TAJ (Sep 1, 2008 08:58PM)
...Ammar's
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 1, 2008 11:56PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-01 21:55, TAJ wrote:
How does this ending compare with Michael Ammars presentation on ETMCM2?

Taj
[/quote]

The display "Finale" is how it differs.

Even if you don't want to do the display, this DVD is a chance to see one of the best, working professionals, use a classic of magic to entertain a live audience. If you do or want to do strolling magic, you can see exactly how this would play.
Message: Posted by: TAJ (Sep 2, 2008 02:11AM)
It would be hard to top the clean, examinable finish, as in Ammar's presentation. What more could you possibly add? except maybe a kicker? or flourish?

Taj
Message: Posted by: sokarnl (Sep 2, 2008 10:29AM)
[quote]I feel as if I am most hated person in Magic (not withstanding J. B.). The loss of friends and reputation is punishment enough.

Respectfully,

Paul Green"
[/quote]

I cant believe the way people react, and this all about the ending of a magic effect. Lets put things in perspective.
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Mar 11, 2009 07:02PM)
It so funny. I remember seeing Paul Green's "Above, Beside or Below" and I recognized that his handling was nearly identical to my own! I discussed this with Paul. He and I had never met and before buying In The Trenches, I had never met or seen Paul perform. So how could this be? First of all, who cares? But the fact is that Paul and I perform close-up in similar situations and came upon a common solution to perform an effect we like. His version ended up on his teaching video, mine was relegated to my act. My point is that two people can come to the same or similar solutions to a problem.

In my opinion, Paul Green is a gracious performer and a nice guy. I feel that this “Who’s move is it anyway?” is moot since neither created Card Warp, and each man may remember their exchange his own way. I’ve done things that I came up with independently and had people say “Oh that’s So-and-So’s move.” And I thought “Really? I never seen or met So-and-So.” So does it become incumbent for me to figure out who else in the magic world may have had a similar idea, if I decide to publish my move? Some may say “Yes!”, I say “Horse-poop.”

I happen to really like Card Warp, I like Paul’s “In the Trenches”, even though the only thing I do from it is my own routine. So I might just buy this DVD to see what the fuss is about.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Mar 11, 2009 07:38PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-02 11:29, sokarnl wrote:

I cant believe the way people react, and this all about the ending of a magic effect. Lets put things in perspective.
[/quote]

No, it's somebody's living. If Pepsi stole Coke's recipe, it would be (and SHOULD be) a big deal. The only perspective this needs to be put in is one other than yours, as it is just a magic trick to you just as Coke is simply a drink.

But, as to Carlo's post, which is why I was posting, it's not quite that simple Carlo. If you had met somebody, they had shown you their effect (or variation of an effect), then you sold it years later, would you be shocked if they were upset? What if you honestly didn't remember them showing you but the person who showed you (along with several others) remembered?

That is what this was about. I was happy to bow out and let them work things out themselves but, and this is why I was so vocal before, it's easy to make excuses why this kind of thing is ok but then you can't complain when people simply decide not to share anything.

So I will simply say "Who's move is is anyways?" is neither moot nor unimportant. I know firsthand creators who have watched their creations get ***ized and/or stolen and their response is to simply stop sharing their creations, which I think is worse for us all in the long run. I'm not saying that is what happened here, just that we have to be very careful coming with arguments one way or the other.

Lem
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Mar 12, 2009 04:51PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-11 20:38, Lemniscate wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-09-02 11:29, sokarnl wrote:

I cant believe the way people react, and this all about the ending of a magic effect. Lets put things in perspective.
[/quote]

No, it's somebody's living. If Pepsi stole Coke's recipe, it would be (and SHOULD be) a big deal. The only perspective this needs to be put in is one other than yours, as it is just a magic trick to you just as Coke is simply a drink.

But, as to Carlo's post, which is why I was posting, it's not quite that simple Carlo. If you had met somebody, they had shown you their effect (or variation of an effect), then you sold it years later, would you be shocked if they were upset? What if you honestly didn't remember them showing you but the person who showed you (along with several others) remembered?

That is what this was about. I was happy to bow out and let them work things out themselves but, and this is why I was so vocal before, it's easy to make excuses why this kind of thing is ok but then you can't complain when people simply decide not to share anything.

So I will simply say "Who's move is is anyways?" is neither moot nor unimportant. I know firsthand creators who have watched their creations get ***ized and/or stolen and their response is to simply stop sharing their creations, which I think is worse for us all in the long run. I'm not saying that is what happened here, just that we have to be very careful coming with arguments one way or the other.

Lem
[/quote]
Lem, I see your point.

My father always said "Once more than one person knows something, it's no longer a secret." I'm sure that man took plenty to his grave.

I think theft of an idea is terrible, but I have seen some "original" ideas that turned out to be based on or identical to a much older "original" ideas that were based on even older "original" ideas, if you see my point. Any students of magic history will attest that origins are at best nebulous. Who first thought of producing a rabbit? Who first thought to use a bag to load a hat? Was it really their idea when they published it?

There is a deep philosophical debate over ethics and morals in magic and the mystery arts, and while I have no quarrel with those who DO care; with probably more than half my life behind me, I just find “Whose move is it anyway?” a useless pursuit. I know we’re talking about peoples lively hoods; but what is the relative value of this? How much financial loss has this cost Mr. Weber? Has it cost him anything? And again, we don’t know that this was a case of an idea being appropriated by someone else for financial gain. And why do these things become so public? Mr. Weber and Mr. Green apparently know each other, why was Mike Close and our cast of characters privy to this? Was this the Peoples Court of magic; am I Judge Wapner?
Stay tuned for this and many other answers! (farce)

If this type of incident would stop creative people from sharing their ideas, then let that be the outcome. When I saw Armando Lucero’s coin matrix handling, I told him he ought to take it to the grave with him. I’m all for people keeping secrets ;)

Again, I can see your point, and I don’t really differ with you aside from angst.

In fact I think I have discovered another idea, that I had and is on the market by someone else. When the time comes for ME to publish MY idea, it's too late for me to take credit because again someone will say "That's So-and-so's"; and no matter how much I object, or claim otherwise there are those who would, without doubt bash me to bits over it. It is in fact something I showed Brad Henderson on one of his visits to the Woodstock area with Just Alan. Sadly enough, in this business he who speaks first owns the idea. I don't think that is what happened here, nor is it the case with my idea (I believe that they both are innocent coincidence). I'm just going to take Mr. Green at his word.

Paul, would you be willing to submit to a polygraph?
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Mar 12, 2009 05:38PM)
Lol, a polygraph.

I liked your post, Carlo. I also hope you know I wasn't dismissing your point of view when I posted, I was merely sharing why I thought it was a slippery slope.

Uh-oh, an actually civil conversation between people who have differing opinions. This whole thread could get deleted now, we'd better get rude fast...

Um... uh... Oh, I got it:

I bet your magic is like your reasoning: clear and direct.

Darn, that isn't even an insult. I must be losing my touch.

In all seriousness, thanks for the post, I'm going to think a bit about this now.
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Mar 12, 2009 06:49PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-12 18:38, Lemniscate wrote:
Lol, a polygraph.

I liked your post, Carlo. I also hope you know I wasn't dismissing your point of view when I posted, I was merely sharing why I thought it was a slippery slope.

Uh-oh, an actually civil conversation between people who have differing opinions. This whole thread could get deleted now, we'd better get rude fast...

Um... uh... Oh, I got it:

I bet your magic is like your reasoning: clear and direct.

Darn, that isn't even an insult. I must be losing my touch.

In all seriousness, thanks for the post, I'm going to think a bit about this now.
[/quote]
Lem, thanks man.

I always find your posts to be very logical and well thought out, even when they point out the flaw or flaws, or are simply a differing perspective to my own thinking.

I liked your Pepsi and Coke analogy, however do you imagine they compare notes on the side steal?

We magicians seem quick to play you show me yours; I'll show you mine and then get peeved when ours get shown to someone else by another. (I have to admit, I loved writing that, just wish I could have used ****ed instead of peeved.)

Keep thinking man, it’s healthy, but don’t think too much, it becomes obstructive.
Peace - Carlo
Message: Posted by: Review King (Mar 12, 2009 07:13PM)
I'm glad this thread got resurrected. I put on the DVD again just to watch Paul Green work. Man, is he smooth.

Paul's getting into the routine is beautiful.

Michael Weber and Paul Green are both great people and I hope they have continued their long term friendship.
Message: Posted by: jstone (Mar 14, 2009 10:23PM)
For those interested in a review, here's my specific review on My Lovely Assistant's website:

[url=http://mylovelyassistant.com/index.php?module=MlaReviews&func=display&rid=1631]Card Warp Finale[/url]
Message: Posted by: The Great Smartini (Jul 1, 2009 10:46PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-09 21:07, mclose wrote:
No. Richard Myer's addition allows the spectators to see three-quarters of the card change as the card is pushed back and forth.

It's a thing of beauty, and it fools me every time I do it. (And I do this trick a lot.)

Close
[/quote]

Could someone clarify for me...Is the optical illusion display from Richard Myer's in the Card Warp Finale DVD by Paul Green or in the Michael Close bill version?

jeff
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 1, 2009 11:01PM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-01 23:46, The Great Smartini wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-09 21:07, mclose wrote:
No. Richard Myer's addition allows the spectators to see three-quarters of the card change as the card is pushed back and forth.

It's a thing of beauty, and it fools me every time I do it. (And I do this trick a lot.)

Close
[/quote]

Could someone clarify for me...Is the optical illusion display from Richard Myer's in the Card Warp Finale DVD by Paul Green or in the Michael Close bill version?

jeff
[/quote]

The display is not on Paul's dvd. You can find it on Close's "Dr. Stangetrick" version. It's on "L&L's Greatest" featuring Card Warp.
Message: Posted by: The Great Smartini (Jul 5, 2009 12:00AM)
Thanks for the info Chris...much appreciated.

jeff
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 8, 2009 10:37PM)
Jeff, my pleasure. Have fun learning and performing the effect!
Message: Posted by: Acecardician (Sep 22, 2009 08:55PM)
I just wish the video demo's for new tricks would show what actually happens and not cut away.
This discourages me from buying them.
I like what "Bro" did with his new release, he showed everything, and I bought it!

ACE
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Mar 19, 2010 09:22AM)
Is the finale different than Andrew Gerard did in True Astonishment? It was actually Stapled Warp. I did the ending just like Andrew did, is it different than Paul Green's Finale? If no, I might interested in buying the DVD. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Mar 19, 2010 08:54PM)
Andrew Gerard ending in Stapled Warped is different than Paul Green's Finale.

Chris
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Mar 20, 2010 01:11AM)
So it's worth the money?
Message: Posted by: noble1 (Mar 23, 2010 02:11PM)
If Card Warp is one of your featured routines you owe it to yourself to check this out.
Message: Posted by: mumford (Apr 16, 2010 11:39AM)
I like Paul's work and presentation.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Apr 16, 2010 02:27PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-19 21:54, Review King wrote:
Andrew Gerard ending in Stapled Warped is different than Paul Green's Finale.

Chris
[/quote]

And this is exactly why the issue was raised in the first place. 'Paul Green's finale'. This is an innaccurate repesentation and does a disservice to both the actual creator and future researchers.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Apr 16, 2010 05:09PM)
I've said this before but I'm kind of amazed that Roy Walton's original ending, which can be found in the Davenport's Card Warp booklet, never caught on. To me, it's far more magical than tearing the card in "mid warp" which, in my opinion, kind of points toward the method. In fact, I never really liked Card Warp until I saw Roy's original ending. Made me love the trick as it's an actual magical ending.
Message: Posted by: mumford (Apr 18, 2010 11:41AM)
Is Walton's original Card Warp available? I'm not certain I've seen it.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Apr 18, 2010 03:13PM)
Yo can buy the booklet directly from Davenports, It's like Three British Pounds or about Five American Dollars. I bought my copy a little over a year ago so I'm assuming it's about the same price. Don't know how much shipping is to the States, though.
Message: Posted by: mumford (Apr 28, 2010 12:06AM)
Thanks, just ordered.
Message: Posted by: ryanalewis (Apr 28, 2010 10:00AM)
I learned this from ETMCM #2 (Ammar), how different is that handling then the one presented here?
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Mar 15, 2012 09:25AM)
Looks the same to me http://www.davenportsmagic.co.uk/acatalog/info_cardwarp.html
What am I missing?
Oh and is the Greene final just the tug of war you see at the end?

[quote]
On 2010-04-16 18:09, Cameron Francis wrote:
I've said this before but I'm kind of amazed that Roy Walton's original ending, which can be found in the Davenport's Card Warp booklet, never caught on. To me, it's far more magical than tearing the card in "mid warp" which, in my opinion, kind of points toward the method. In fact, I never really liked Card Warp until I saw Roy's original ending. Made me love the trick as it's an actual magical ending.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: SugarRayRick (Mar 3, 2015 04:08AM)
[quote]On Jun 13, 2008, Markymark wrote:
My credit was stolen but I did'nt mind because the thief was spending less with it then my wife! [/quote]


Very funny. :)
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Mar 9, 2015 07:07AM)
Never Seen Roys, where can I find it again? Ive always had a love hate with Card Warp. Always got amazing reactions but for me I never felt it was as powerful.