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Topic: The Fource
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 9, 2008 07:56AM)
The ad is up at Outlaw-effects.com in the ebook section. May The Fource be with you!
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 9, 2008 08:01AM)
I just noticed the PayPal button isn't up yet. My PayPal address and the pre-sale price are there however!
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 9, 2008 08:59PM)
I'm pleased to announce that the PayPal button is now up and fully operational at outlaweffects.com
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Sep 10, 2008 12:43AM)
Everybody knows Cushman's stuff sux and you shouldn't buy it.

Just kidding. This one rox hardcore.

Incredibly inspirational.

But beware. Sleepless night await you.

D
Message: Posted by: Royce K. (Sep 10, 2008 09:49AM)
Hi Bill,

When is this ebook due to be released?

Many thanks,

Royce K.
Message: Posted by: jbadman (Sep 10, 2008 11:29AM)
I just visited the site and read the appropriate webpage but I'm still none the wiser about what this actually is, what it does, what it's used for... any clues?!

Cheers,

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 10, 2008 02:53PM)
Royce, The Fource is due to be released this weekend.

Jamie, this is a real struggle. I'm usually the guy that convinces folks to be more open about their products. For example encouraging Rick to describe the workings of his effects at Outlaw, especially since they can't be easily duplicated.

As I've said elsewhere, Alain Nu encouraged me not to release the simple 2-page version I sent him. One of his reasons is that the basic premise can be described and understood so easily I'd be risking a very quick exposure. Not even necessarily by bootlegging the mss., just from people describing it to others. So by delving deeper into how to get the most out of The Fource and getting incredible contributions (they really are outrageously good), people would have to buy the ebook to really get the full value.

Also, Alain encouraged me to include routines that do not use The Fource but involve the whole audience in the same way the Fource can be used to full advantage (though as I've mentioned, people are having great results one on one which I wasn't expecting). See Lior's quote for more on this. It is an important area and I’m glad to have the opportunity to share several effects of my own and others in this genre.

I'm going to get some advice from my friends with more experience in this area and try and come up with a way to share more about The Fource without harming my sales. I'm walking a real tightrope because not saying enough can also negatively affect sales.

Fortunately this hasn't been the case so far. I think this is because people trust those who have reviewed The Fource and have been more than happy with my other releases.

I am giving this my full attention and will have more to say later. Thank you for expressing your understandable concerns.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 10, 2008 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-10 12:29, jbadman wrote:
I just visited the site and read the appropriate webpage but I'm still none the wiser about what this actually is, what it does, what it's used for... any clues?!

Cheers,

Jamie.
[/quote]

The reason we can't describe it is that most people would be able to backtrack and come up with the effect that Bill came up on his own.

It's an incredible idea that is one that you will think to yourself, "How did I not think of this!", but you didn't... none of us did. It took Bill's brain, and some possible blows to the head, to create this thing.

It's a beautiful idea that unfortunately will soon be ripped off by those that hear it. I think Bill should make as much money as he can before this travels through the mentalism and magic community. I'm sure this will be finding its way into many shows... and many of them will not have even paid for it.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 11, 2008 12:03AM)
Thanks Greg! You made me happy and bummed me out at the same time!

Seriously, you captured the dilemna that remains unsolved. Anyone feel free to PM me with specific questions and I will do my best to answer them.

Seriously, you captured the dilemna that remains unsolved. Anyone feel free to PM me with specific questions and I will do my best to answer them.

Seriously, you....Hey, where did that come from? Funny, I have this odd headache.....
Message: Posted by: Xtasy0 (Sep 11, 2008 12:29AM)
Greg, does that mean that if an audience sees or hears the effect they will understand the workings and backtrack it? or is it at least deceptive enough to fly by an audience?
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 11, 2008 01:07AM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-11 01:29, Xtasy0 wrote:
Greg, does that mean that if an audience sees or hears the effect they will understand the workings and backtrack it? or is it at least deceptive enough to fly by an audience?
[/quote]

No, what it means that any person that has performed mentalism or knows some of the workings will be able to figure it out on their own.
I can see large numbers of guys in the audiences of someone that uses it saying to themselves, "Cool. I'm going to do that next time."

It's not the same thing, but it would be like someone never doing the NO gag before and then someone creates it. Well, the first time another performer hears that they can certainly work out for themselves what is happening without buying the idea. Of course, The Fource is a much stronger effect on the audience and really will play like a strong mental effect, but unfortunately the moment someone who already does mentalism hears it they will be able to reconstruct it and Bill will not get a dime for that.

This is something that we all know basically yet in the decades and decades that it has been used no one has put the idea into this new structure. And because of that I think Bill needs to be compensated for doing something that no one else did before. As I said, the unfortunate thing is I know once this is out there the thieves will rally around and take an idea that they never had before.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Xtasy0 (Sep 11, 2008 02:26AM)
Thanks for the reply greg, I understand, and I certainly can understand why bill doesn't want to explain too much about the effect.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 11, 2008 03:28AM)
Thanks again Greg for putting into words what I am struggling to find a balance with saying. XtasyO, one thing that might help is for me to again clarify that The Fource is an effect in itself but more than that it is a tool that has inspired some amazingly creative thinking.

Like Greg said, an audience not composed of magicians or mentalists is in no way going to backtrack and figure out how the effect worked. Adding the presenations that have been contributed, many of the effects can be performed for mentalists and magicians and they will, at the very least, have a difficult if not impossible time reverse engineering what just happened. "Meaning is the best misdirection," Kenton likes to say and the A list of contributers have "cloaked the hoax," in layers of meaning.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Sep 11, 2008 03:42AM)
I have spent a lot on e-books in the last several months and generally have been let down. Seems everybody is constantly raving about how great some of these are. So far I have come across a lot that did not live up to all the hype.

I have not purchased this one yet, just hoping that this wont be one of those "times"!
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 11, 2008 04:08AM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-11 04:42, rowdymagi5 wrote:
I have spent a lot on e-books in the last several months and generally have been let down. Seems everybody is constantly raving about how great some of these are. So far I have come across a lot that did not live up to all the hype.

I have not purchased this one yet, just hoping that this wont be one of those "times"!
[/quote]

The easy answer to this is: Stop buying stuff. I'm sure you already have enough in your library to last a lifetime. If you own 13 Steps and PME then you're pretty much done. You can continue to perform until you take your last breath and won't need much else.

We really don't need anything else. What Bill is offering is a wonderful take on a premise that's been around and he has made it into a stronger effect. But do you need it? No. You could skip this and never look back and it won't hurt your performing skills one bit.

Greg
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Sep 11, 2008 04:14AM)
Greg,

Good point. Im always looking to add or improve my performance options, so I do purchase when I read good reviews on here.

Thanks for the honest evaluation.
Message: Posted by: jbadman (Sep 11, 2008 05:11AM)
Surely some very vague indication of what this is could do no harm... for example:

'Fource is a linguistic principle/effect which can be used in your mentalism act to great effect.'

I have no idea if the above is or is not true - however, if it is true, it certainly gives nothing away but at least gives the buyer a little more indication as to what he or she is buying because in the very least, it gives more expectation as to the area of mentalism that it enriches.

I can see exactly what Greg means by the 'No' gag example - this is clearly something that is, once seen, completely understood and therefore even a review of the product might easily tip the entire thing. However, it's not priced cheaply and therefore takes a great leap of faith to purchase when, really, the only description of what it is so far is that it's related to mentalism. If I tried to sell a one-trick ebook and the only description I could write about it was "It's a card trick" and I priced it at $35, I don't think I'd sell any at all.

I do see Bill's dilemma but I'm sure he can likewise, see the buyer's dilemma also.

The solution - I'm not sure. Possibly there are two routes:

(1) Have a large number of established, respected people back the product and stake their reputation on its worth.
(2) Make the price cheap enough for it to be worth taking a punt on.

The problem with (1) is that the buyer still has no idea what it is they're buying but at least they have a great deal of reassurance. The problem with (2) is that you need to sell more to make the money - but at least you're selling to people who might otherwise have walked on by because of the lack of information about what it was they were buying.

I guess a third option is to offer a 'money back guarantee' - if you're not really impressed by this idea then you can request a refund - or perhaps a half-refund. This route is quite interesting because you could argue that people will just get the secret and then regardless of if they like it or not, they'll ask for the refund. You're taking a massive leap of faith with your buyers - in much the same way as you're asking them to take with you. I quite like the 50% refund approach rather than the full refund.

Just some ideas!

Cheers,

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Sep 11, 2008 06:46AM)
You will NEVER see a money back guarantee. That just wont happen.

I have noticed that if certain people on here produce an e-book, the SAME people start endorsing it and giving it super reviews. The first time someone disagrees, they all get nasty and argue with him. Very uncomforatable situation. They even attack the negative reviewer. It makes everyone shy away from saying anything negative, so all you read are positive reviews.

Im not referring to this e-book at all, so please, I hope no one is offended. I recently purchased an effect that got 4 pages of positive reviews. After I bought it, it now has 6 pages of negative reviews! Go figure, just my luck! This may be a great effect, or it may be rubbish. We all choose to take our chances.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 11, 2008 11:24AM)
...you play the GAME you take your CHANCES... yuk yuk yuk
Message: Posted by: pduffie (Sep 11, 2008 12:50PM)
Hi Bill,

I have a question that neither touches on effect or method (otherwise I would have pm'd you as you requested). You said earlier that: "..people are having great results one on one which I wasn't expecting)."

My question: What is the miminum size of audience that you are comfortable working the Fource with?

Peter
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 11, 2008 12:56PM)
To try and ease some doubts here: What Bill has come up with is a way of enhancing something that I'm sure a lot of people already know, but they never thought of doing it this way.

Once again, this is something that is based on an effect that most of us know, do, and have seen others do, BUT Bill realized something we were all missing and that's what makes it valuable.
And although my NO example is kind of similar, it is in no way showing how much more powerful Bill's idea plays.

And as I said before, I know what's going to happen. Many of those that think it's a scam will consider using this once they hear it... even if they don't pay for it. The problem with this idea is how easy it is to reconstruct, but no one has ever done it before.

I feel real sorry for Bill on this one because I can see the money taken out of his pocket once this genii has been let out of the bottle.

How about this... to prove how honest everyone is... will you promise that when you see this being performed and realize what Bill has come up with that you will send him the money before you decide to use it. That would be an honest way to do it. So wait until it's out there and when you hear another person using it and you say, "Cool", at that moment you will realize the value and you will take out your cash and send it to Bill before you decide to use an idea you never had.

Greg
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Sep 11, 2008 01:05PM)
And the plot tickens

but wth Arce word backing it up I'm going to get it
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 11, 2008 03:03PM)
Fair question Peter. I'm beginning to wonder if some people didn't read about The Fource where and when it was initially posted, not knowing that a lot of discussion took place before I started this thread. I first shared that I was releasing The Fource in response to a horrid threat by Dr. Spector :) on the mis-named (yet well-intended and extremely flattering) Mental Index thread.

The Doc said it was actually a good thing he proposed doing to my brain but I'm a little sensitive when it comes to the removal of vital organs.

So I'm going to copy some of the posts from that thread to this one. I hope this is OK with the powers that be and that it clears things up and gives people more confidence about the value of the ebook. Here we go, starting with me:

"Coincidentally, I had an interesting idea that I was considering releasing about a week ago until Alain Nu called me and requested I hold off as it "would be a disservice to you and the art of mentalism not to develop it a bit further." Then he asked permission to perform it in some upcoming shows, which was quite flattering.

The original two pages (apparently good things DO come in small packages), at the time known simply as "The Fource," have snowballed into quite a bit more. Any impulse I had to release it as it stood was put in check when Alain bribed me by offering two effects from his own repertoire to include in the final project.

I also am a strong believer in vetting my material (a big part of why it went to Alain, who remembers most everything, in the first place) so was waiting on just a bit more confirmation. Then I received this from the Dean of Mentalism himself, Larry Becker:

"Hi Bill. Eureka! Why the hell didn't I think of that!!!! Well we all did, but never as (deleted so as not to give the game away quite yet). It's positively brilliant. An opener par excellence.

Great thinking Bill. Just my cup of tea. Simple, powerful and memorable. Your newest admirer – Best always-" Larry

This put any remaining fears to rest and to add icing to the cake, Larry also gave me a show stopping presentation to include. Though above he refers to The Fource as an opener, his take has closer written all over it.

To do a bit more name dropping, Rick Roth, Sean Waters, Tony Razzano, Millard Longman, Alexandre, Don Theo, Gabe Gabelson, Lior Manor and Enrique Enriquez among others have also provided input, routines and advice. Seriously, these are good friends who are very enthusiastic about The Fource and generously contributed a variety of presentations to apply different meanings to my basic idea. While a routine unto itself, it is also a tool that can be used in many different ways as you will soon see given Ike is merciful to South Florida. (9/11: We got away very lucky as I'm sure you all know by now)

And, again as per Alain's wise words, I have asked for and received some excellent contributions that have nothing to do with The Fource per se but are presentations that tap into the same kind of group dynamic. One or two of my own unpublished routines of this genre will also be included.

If you tend to perform one on one, or for just a few folks, The Fource will include things for you too. Much to my own surprise, despite being conceived for audiences of at least 10 people, I’ve had incredible success performing it for one person at a time. This doesn’t even make sense to me but such is the power and versatility of The Fource.”

There is your answer Peter. The minimum size audience I am comfortable with is one. Not all of the routines can be used one on one but the basic premise I’m being credited with and vetted as a two-page Word doc most certainly can. The more I do it this way the better it gets.

Here are some more posts that will either add clarity or just continue to muddy the waters. If they don't add clarity, like I said above, they should at least increase confidence in making an investment in The Fource:

Posted by Jerome Finley: "It's wonderful!!! The Fource is JUST my type of thing and thinking I love. Well done! I'll get my contribution written up and sent to you by tomorrow afternoon." And also from Jerome a bit later:

"Bill's idea is absolutely marvelous and I wish him all the best with this release. It's a keeper!” Jerome

My big brother Greg (I have two big bros now) who is expressing so much concern on my behalf and taking such good care of me on this thread wrote this on the other thread:

"Stop talking about The Fource!!!! It's too good!!!

It's definitely one of those things that is going to have everyone saying, "You mean I had the ability to do this all the time and I never thought of it!? What was I thinking!!!!?" Greg

Rick Roth (Thanks bro!) wrote this:

“Dr. Bills The Fource e-book is one of those "OMG why didn't I think of that moments!

He built a better mousetrap that you guys will love. Several top names in our field, inspired by what Bill came up with have contributed to The Fource book.

You will have fun performing one on one, two on two or best yet, in front of an audience." Rick

From Mike (Turk):

"Brilliant non-linear outside of the box thinking. Bill is correct: You definitiely will be asking yourself you you didn't think of this yourself. Way to go, Bill!" Mike

Along with a really cool contribution reminiscent of Mobile Opener in how it works with the entire audience, Lior Manor wrote:

"Doing effects with all the audience is something that many mentalists/magicians miss. Bill gives you something very strong to do with all your audience. I am using it in every show. Thanks Bill" Lior

From me again:

"More great news! Our own Bev has reached out a hand to prevent me from drowning in all of this! He has given me some typically "Mooreish" contributions that just rock. More on this later but Bev you are a life saver. I'll never regret tricking you into becoming a well known, published mentalist!” Me :)

From Elliot Bressler:

"Thanks. That is very clever.

I have sent in my pre-pre-order, as it is so rare to find something I will use.
I am already formulating plans to try “Fource” with billet presentations along the lines of Test of Power Revisited & The Pusillanimous Billet Read. At my next opportunity, I may even try it with the Q&8 sequence, sans gag. I just need to do some work on patter and presentation. The possibilities are very exciting.

I can’t wait to see the cool stuff that will be in the full book. Thanks again." Elliott

More from Jerome Finley:

"I'm honored to hear my contribution is well received and of use in your next release and offering to the mentalism community. After reading, 'The Fource' I knew this little gem I've been holding so closely was definitely meant for you and I'm happy beyond words to share and contribute it to 'The Fource.'

Your piece is marvelous, will be of tremendous use and make a lot of people very happy. I feel blessed to be involved here and more so, to have access to this type of material and great thinking. As I said before this is JUST my type of thing and I WILL continue using this piece (and already have with great success) all thanks to you!" Jerome

From Christopher Taylor:

"I've had a sneak peek at an early draft of "Fource", including some of the contributions. As I told Bill, the depth of the material that is emerging, with this simple concept at the heart, is wonderful; it shows how powerful "simple" can be. When this comes out it is going to make a big splash. Well done Bill!"
Christopher

I hope this helps put some minds at ease. Psi-Droid you actually gave me the idea when you posted, "but with Arce’s word backing it up I'm going to get it." Everyone has different people they take at their word so I figured by moving the words of several different people to this thread it might help.

Let me address one more thing said on this thread. Mystification wrote:

"I have noticed that if certain people on here produce an e-book, the SAME people start endorsing it and giving it super reviews. The first time someone disagrees, they all get nasty and argue with him. Very uncomfortable situation. They even attack the negative reviewer. It makes everyone shy away from saying anything negative, so all you read are positive reviews."

No offense taken Myst, you make a point I agree with as well. However there is a good reason, at least for my situation, that the same people tend to endorse my work. I vett it. And I vett it by people I know are experienced and knowledgeable and that I can trust. So of course it is this group that is going to post on my behalf.

And thinking about what you wrote, I realize I'm also lucky in two other ways. I don't think there was much or any disagreement about my first two ebooks. That is one way in which I'm fortunate.

The other is that I associate with good people with integrity and maturity so they don't go off on someone just because there is disagreement. I think Greg's posts on this thread, though obviously showing increasing frustration on my behalf, are a good example. He has been very well measured and fair in his responses. Except when he wrote about The Fource:

"But do you need it? No. You could skip this and never look back and it won't hurt your performing skills one bit." That was nasty! :).
Message: Posted by: jbadman (Sep 11, 2008 05:32PM)
Thanks for that, Bill. Much appreciated. One final question for you... on the Outlaw site, the 'prerelease' price is $35. What's the anticipated price once it's actually released, do you know?

Cheers,

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 11, 2008 06:11PM)
At least 45 dollars.
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Sep 11, 2008 10:13PM)
While the combination of effects will give you much to smile about, it is Dr. Cushman's (et al) applications of these techniques, reminiscient of where he went with MI that will make you happy you picked this up.

Sorry if this seems cryptic.

I keep going back to the Fource as it serves as a powerful creative launching board.

And I'm not just saying that. Though I respect Dr. Cushman's work I have never met or spoken with him.

In this day and age though, it's always exciting when something like Fource comes along.

And that, I feel, is worth mentioning.

D
Message: Posted by: Tony Razzano (Sep 12, 2008 05:07PM)
A while back, I stopped using Ned Rutledge's "Minding the Store". Now, I have put it back in as The Fource makes one of the aspects easier and involves the entire audience, thanks to an idea by Alexandre.

As to how many in the audience, Peter, I, too am surprised that it works one on one, but I would be comfortable doing a parlor show with it.

Greg was most eloquent about it. Re read his posts, no use me repeating what was already said. I would make the same points as Greg, but he is much more eloquent than I.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 14, 2008 09:30AM)
Thanks Don and Tony. I'm hearing quite a bit about The Fource as a source of inspiration. That pleases me to no end; I can't wait to see where it goes after release.

A pefect example is Tony's post, inspired by an idea of Alex's, inspired by The Fource.

I continue to be surprised at the impact one on one, or in small groups. And, yes, even that it works. The more I do it that way, the more sense it is making to me but it may also have to do with my greater confidence that it is going to work. Then again it worked when I did it expecting it not to. At this point I just enjoy it.

The Fource is nearly complete. Wait till everyone reads Enrique's contribution. I don't' want to say more because I want you all to have the experience in the moment that I had when I first read it.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 14, 2008 10:24AM)
I can't wait, buddy!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Sep 14, 2008 03:57PM)
Well I must admit I've been burnt by hype on the Café about e-books. There does seem to be a group that praise one another over very average material. Its been a 70-30 hit for me as far as quality goes, the latter being my opinion on the value for money success. How-ever saying that, many of the people praiseing Bills material on this thread are what I'd call serious Café members and professionals in the field who have given a lot of good advise to other members over the years. I have certainly benefitted from their input here on the Café. Too many solid people endorsing this to ignor, somehow I think its going to be 35 bucks well spent
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 14, 2008 04:04PM)
I will just say that I got a tiny bit of insider info on the book...and paid my 35 bucks anyway...that really means something...trust me.

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Royce K. (Sep 15, 2008 03:21AM)
Is it out yet?

Thanks,

Royce K.
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Sep 15, 2008 04:04PM)
Ordered... :)
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Sep 16, 2008 10:26AM)
And a quiet descended on the land.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 16, 2008 02:37PM)
Shhh.......

Almost there folks. I promise it will be worth it.

Even after I officially stopped taking contributions there were some things that arrived I couldn't resist adding. I don't want to deprive anyone of some real gems nor do I want to do another supplement (as I did for Mirabill).

Best,

Bill
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 16, 2008 02:39PM)
Almost forgot; Nathan, thanks for your continued support. And takeachance I appreciate your comments as well.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Sep 16, 2008 02:40PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-11 13:56, Greg Arce wrote:
How about this... to prove how honest everyone is... will you promise that when you see this being performed and realize what Bill has come up with that you will send him the money before you decide to use it. That would be an honest way to do it.[/quote]

I'm not exactly sure I'd put that in the category of "honest" but I agree wholeheartedly, nonetheless. Unless I come up with a presentational approach prior to somebody else releasing theirs, this is the credo I live by. If I want to use somebody's idea, then my only recourse is to "send them money" (buy the product they released it in). This is how it would be regardless of how easy/hard it was to backtrack or even if somebody sent me a preview of an item (there are several approaches I don't use since some of these preview items are currently out of my financial reach to actually buy).

This seems pretty cut and dry. I am not arguing, btw, that Bill should do anything to expose what is in his material, merely that at least some of us take pride in what we do and respect the effort, impact, and originality of others. Also, Greg put it out there and I think it is approach that every one of us should have.

Of course, we don't. The only person who knows exactly what you have paid for and what you use is YOU, that is why my signature is what it is. If you are the only person who knows you are ripping somebody off, you have no integrity. If, instead, you are the only person who knows the lengths you go to NOT to rip somebody off, well, that is true integrity.

-L

EDIT: And, yes, Greg, you can count on me to do exactly what you outline, I promise. For the record, this includes using the IDEA in a different way, not just the way I see it. I think a lot of people try to weasel their way around by being "original" when all they are really doing is trying to hide their theft of somebody else's ideas. But that is just what I see.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 16, 2008 02:43PM)
I'm with ya, Lem!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 16, 2008 03:38PM)
I wish there were more like Lem and Nathan. Thanks, guys.

Greg
Message: Posted by: jbadman (Sep 16, 2008 06:26PM)
You do realise, Bill, that if I hold my breath for much longer you're going to be liable for a whole stack of medical expenses?!

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 16, 2008 09:31PM)
Anytime someone comps me their material, a gift, if it goes in the act...I send some dough...

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Sep 16, 2008 11:32PM)
And after the wise one spoke, again a quiet descended on the land.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 16, 2008 11:32PM)
I wish there were more like all of you! Thanks guys. Just a bit more patience and you will be rewarded.

Breath, Jamie, Breath! You are more fortunate than most. The Fource Will With You!
Message: Posted by: jbadman (Sep 18, 2008 02:08PM)
Any more news on this?

BTW noticed that even though it's past the 'buy before the 15th for a pre-order price', outlaw-effects still has that deal running. Guess they've not got round to updating the page... best get it quick ;-)

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 18, 2008 04:18PM)
I check my email every hour, just hoping The Fource will have been bestowed upon me...

Nathan
Message: Posted by: dscanning (Sep 18, 2008 08:00PM)
How many people do think are gonna buy a pig in a poke? You might or might not be a great magician and thinker, but a marketing genius, you're not.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 18, 2008 08:13PM)
Thanks Wikipedia!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: dmoses (Sep 19, 2008 10:50AM)
I bought Bill's Mind Index on Christopher Taylor's recommendation and liked it very much.
I've ordered this and expect great things.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Sep 19, 2008 04:17PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-18 21:00, dscanning wrote:
How many people do think are gonna buy a pig in a poke? You might or might not be a great magician and thinker, but a marketing genius, you're not.
[/quote]
I'm just curious, what post are you referring to? Thanks.
Message: Posted by: dscanning (Sep 19, 2008 09:36PM)
The Fource
Message: Posted by: Pit Boss (Sep 19, 2008 09:47PM)
The Fource is the topic, we would like to know which specific post you are referring to...
Message: Posted by: El Mystico (Sep 20, 2008 03:34PM)
I'm fortunate enough to have had an early preview.
The idea behind the Fource is so simple it could be described in one sentence.
Yet - no one has thought of it before.
It takes something you probably already know and stretches it in a fabulous direction.
And - best of all - takes in in directions that you can use to give it real meaning....and that is what the bulk of the manuscript is about - the way it has inspired different folk to give it meaning. And, probably, you'll think of new ideas yourselves.
Will you need to carry props around with you? No. But there will be things you may want to carry.
Will it require a lot of memory work? No. As I say, you probably know it already.
Will it work for close up and stage? Yes.
So, are you telling me this is one of those impromptu miracles you can have always handy, even in a Turkish Bath? Yes.
Is it worth the price? Well, there you go. Have you got Corinda? Have you got Annemann? No? then spend your money on them. But if you have all the standards, I think you'll enjoy reading the ideas here, and, if you perform, there is a high chance you will use at least one of them.
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Sep 20, 2008 03:43PM)
I'm glad you got your copy and thanks for the teaser, now when are the rest of us getting this
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 20, 2008 03:57PM)
I am waiting to death, but I truly feel this will be well worth the wait!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: mindhunter (Sep 20, 2008 04:23PM)
Nice post, Lem.

I submitted a little something or two to Bill to use with this, and do not know if it something that made it into the final draft or not.

And no, Bill...I'm NOT a Deacon. Unfortunately, far from it.
(Inside joke ...has to do with what I sent Bill!)

I, too, am curious to see the other offerings. Knowing who contributed them, I am sure they will be interesting.

I, too, "knew this" but never thought to do ___________ "that way."

Bryn
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 20, 2008 08:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-18 21:00, dscanning wrote:
How many people do think are gonna buy a pig in a poke? You might or might not be a great magician and thinker, but a marketing genius, you're not.
[/quote]

I'll but it, heck I'll buy anything. Honestly though Bill Cushman is a gentle honest soul with a lot of great ideas. He would probably be the first to tell you to not buy this. I'm sure this idea is great just like all his ideas.
James
Message: Posted by: Royce K. (Sep 21, 2008 01:43AM)
Maybe today is the day...

Royce K.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 24, 2008 10:35PM)
You guys are great! I've avoided this place for three days now and not even one hostile post, PM or email. I stayed away in order to put all my energies into giving you the best possible value for your dollar and making The Fource all it could be.

The Fource is ready to be let out of the bag. I'm taking it off the pre-sale price of $35 dollars at midnight Friday and from that point on it will be $49.95. I will start sending out the many pre-orders Friday.

Let me tell you a few things that have occurred since we were all last together!

First, a huge thank you to Bev is in order. He put up with my whims, technical incompetence and OCD to make the final product incredible. And somewhere found the time to include his own contributions that I know will be well received.

The finalized PDF is a stunning testament to Bev's talents (not to mention patience) and the contributions of so many great people. The list of contributors (in no particular order) is as follows:

1)Larry Becker
2)Greg Arce
3)Alexandre
4)Rick Roth
5)Bryn Reynolds
6)Dominic Twose
7)Jamie Badman
8)Sean Waters
9)Millard Longman
10) Julian “Bev” Moore
11)Jerome Finley
12) Tony Razzano
13) Lior Manor
14) Alain Nu
15) Enrique Enriquez

That is an awesome line-up, I’m sure you’ll all agree. Several more people offered ongoing support and feedback throughout this process that is also much appreciated.

The ebook is 60 pages long. That is quite a change from the 2 pages that started all of this! But it isn’t the length, rather the quality of the contributions that I think makes The Fource so special.

There is a folder included of “Fourceful Images” that will allow you to begin performing some of the wonderful ideas within right out of the gate. Just to be clear, there are just a few effects that can be used with or without the photos. I wanted to include them to make this even more valuable, versatile and user-friendly. Also to stimulate your own creativity.

Enrique Enriquez wrote the foreword but to call it a foreword is a huge understatement. When Enrique offered to lend a hand and asked what I needed, I suggested 1 of 4 possibilities: an essay on the value of presentations that involve the entire audience, an effect of his own involving the entire audience, an effect using The Fource or a foreword.

I didn’t know it until I finished reading what Enrique sent me but clever man that he is, he managed to accomplish all four of my suggestions in one stunning tour de fource! I promise I’ll get the word play out of my system soon. This could have easily been the next entry in his “Invisible” series of ebooks and been called “The Invisible Prism.” I won’t say anymore because I want you to have as close to the experience I did upon first reading this.

There are two sections after Enrique’s “foreword” and the original 2 page “The Fource” manuscript that started all this what seems like so long ago. The first, “Fourceful Presentations,” has over 20 presentations for The Fource.

“Fourceful Presentations” is full of great ideas and insights in how to get the most mileage out of the original idea. By the way there are a couple that are perfect for Halloween which will be here before we know it. A stand out in this area is Jamie Badman’s “Fources From Beyond.” Put the effect aside and this is a chilling story all by itself.

I won’t go into each effect because I am still “hampered” by the original concerns I voiced when I first posted and that Greg Arce and others did there best to communicate without tipping too much. I can say that this section contains everything from intimate close-up mentalism, strolling mentalism, and always ready to go impromptu (even propless) mentalism effects to routines that will play in the largest of venues possible.

Lior’s contribution in this section is a riff on his famous Mobile Opener that I’m still shocked he gave me permission to include. I mention this because if you own his DVD of this routine (and you should) you will already now how versatile and valuable it is and how well Lior makes it play to a huge audience.

Larry Becker has even contributed a way to include 12 Playboy Bunnies in one presentation! If you don’t have your own dozen, I’m sure Larry will lend you his.

There are also effects that will work well for motivational speakers. One of the common themes to almost everything included is the option to make an audience member, and the whole audience, the star.

The second section is “Group Dynamics!” This includes 7 effects that do not use The Fource.

The focus, unsurprisingly, are effects that include your entire audience. Most are directly from the repertoires of pros who have used these presentations to earn their living.

If you have Conversations With Mind Readers, Tony Razzano’s “Pendulum Party” will sound familiar. That’s because Tony was kind enough to allow me to include this without hesitation when I asked him. Imagine taking your whole audience on a guided tour of the possibilities of pendulums!

Alain Nu (remember this is all his “fault”) shares two effects that he used when emceeing and performing for The Comedy Mystery Society. These were designed to bring the whole audience together and to let you gauge who might be best to use as participants later in the show.

This is also where I’ve placed Sublime Subliminal Square, my new take on Subliminal Square that was originally published in Banachek’s Psychological Subtleties 2. Instead of one person experiencing the direct effect of subliminal suggestion, SSS allows you to have the entire audience share in the experience.

OK, this post is already longer than the original manuscript so I think it is time for me to stop! I really wanted this to be something special and I think everyone will appreciate the extra week or so it took to get this where it deserved to be. I want to thank everyone, especially the many who pre-ordered on faith, for your support and patience. I hope you find it as worthwhile an experience as I have.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 25, 2008 06:36AM)
Nice!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 25, 2008 08:28AM)
Surprise, through the miracle of international time zones, The Fource will start going out tonight! The pre-sale price will remain on until Friday midnight as promised.

I woke up this morning to a wonderful final PDF but I have to go to work. Arghh.

I'll be back with you all later and start mass emailing!
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Sep 25, 2008 08:50AM)
Worth the wait I'm sure.
Message: Posted by: Y2John (Sep 25, 2008 08:55AM)
Wow sounds like it's going to be something truly special.

Thanks for the update, roll on friday!!

Cheers.
Message: Posted by: spindoc (Sep 25, 2008 09:18PM)
It's out now....all 65 pages...and it has some wonderful routines. I especially like "Fourceclosure" and will be using it. Great job, Bill and all who contributed.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 26, 2008 09:43AM)
OK! I just sent out the last pre-order so if you ordered at the pre-sale price and don't see The Fource in your email today, contact me ASAP to set things right.
You still have until midnight tonight to buy it at $35.00 and then the regular price of $49.95 will be in place.

Thanks to everyone for their patience and I really appreciate (as do the contributers) all the posiive feedback that has going around. Have a great day and I look forward to discussing The Fource as folks have a chance to absorb it all.
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Sep 26, 2008 10:41AM)
It is savage! :)
Message: Posted by: muse (Sep 26, 2008 10:45AM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-26 11:41, Pete Legend wrote:
It is savage! :)
[/quote]

Darn...I was hoping for downright feral.
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Sep 26, 2008 11:17AM)
Ha ha :D Its excellent like! Some great great presentations!
Message: Posted by: dmoses (Sep 26, 2008 02:23PM)
Just got it... looking forward to reading it.
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Sep 26, 2008 05:59PM)
Tic Tock.

The discount is almost over :-(

There are some great things going on here.

I don't want to say more than that.

D
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Sep 26, 2008 06:27PM)
I hope anyone who may be sitting on that fence...hop off...save 15 bucks...I have been laughing evil laughs to myself all day long...you WILL buy this...you will hate yourself, and then...love fest!

Thanks Dr. Bill and all of the contributors!

I myself came up with my own little touches on "The Fource"...this WILL get you thinking! This isn't spoon fed material...this will open you up!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Nicodemus (Sep 26, 2008 09:43PM)
Man.. do not miss the chance to save $15 and get The fabulous FOURCE book... the vast creativity of so many people contributing is amazing..!


- Nicodemus
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 27, 2008 10:06AM)
Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the compliments, PMs and email I've been getting on The Fource.

I just noticed that my buddy on the West coast didn't change the pre-sale price at midnight like he was supposed to. We had a bet about this and the deal is that if he forgot, any orders that came in after midnight he has to pay me the $14.95 difference. Let's just say he already owes me a tidy sum.

So here is your chance to have Rick help pay some of your bills for a change. At least until he wakes up and sees this post! :)
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Sep 27, 2008 02:07PM)
Darn, I was asleep on this one and missed the pre-order price! Any chance that their will be a discount in the future?
Message: Posted by: Thought farmer (Sep 27, 2008 02:48PM)
I just figured out how to open the e-book,( I can hear everybody on the Café laughing about this, including me). Ladies and gentlemen we certainly have a winner here! It exceeded my expectations!
The REFRACTIONS by Enrique Enriquez (spelling?) is neat. Thanks to Dr.Bill and all the contributors. You have every right to be smiling about this book. In closing, WOW! Thought Farmer.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 27, 2008 07:42PM)
Rowdy, it was on pre-sale price for over two weeks! Who are you, Rowdy Van Winkle? :)

Thanks, TF, I can't say enough about Enrique's foreword, Refractions. It can stand completely on its own.

By the way, up until now, all the reviews on the outlaw-effects.com ad have been from people who ended up contributing to The Fource. If you'd like to read an endorsement from someone who isn't in the ebook, and only saw it when it was completed, please check the ad out again. :)
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Sep 28, 2008 03:20PM)
Bill,

The end result of, 'The Fource' is absolutely phenomenal! I was amazed by the quality of thought and application from you and each of the contributors; thanks so much for allowing my own thoughts to appear in your remarkable offering. Your latest release is 'scary good' and all the praise you will garner (and have already) is extremely well deserved!

BUMP THIS THREAD! :) 'The Fource' rocks!!!

Best,
Jerome
Message: Posted by: A.G. (Sep 28, 2008 10:19PM)
Bill sent me this to look at, and almost immediatly I started to smile. I am a huge fan of exploiting simplicity and this is right up my alley.

Wonderful ideas from some great minds, I have a few application I have come up with as well.....

Thanks for another wonderful offering DR. Bill

All the best ,
Always,
Andrew Gerard
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Sep 29, 2008 08:00AM)
Wow, sounds great. However $50.00 is a lot for an e-book. That will probably keep a lot of people away, which could be a good thing!

Im still on the fence.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Sep 29, 2008 04:24PM)
This was found in the archives at the Rand Corp. recently



[url=http://web.me.com/edbain/The_Fource/Dr._Bill_Cushman.html]Archive footage[/url]
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 29, 2008 04:39PM)
Thank you Jerome and Andrew, I'm very flattered.

Jerome your contribution in the Group Dynamics chapter hasn't gotten nearly the attention online it deserves. I suspect this is because people who read it don't want everyone else to have it!

What you shared is some truly brilliant thinking that was certainly new to me. In a sense I'm glad I didn't know your ideas before I hit upon The Fource because I might not have gone in the direction I did, flailing about on my own! Now The Fource too is so much better for your work, which has a broad range of applications across the board when it comes to psychological forces.

By now, I'm sure most have figured out The Fource has something to do with psychological forces! I like to think that it "ramps up" the power of what I focused upon as well as providing a kind of safety net that is new. Though still psychological at heart, you really can't go wrong with this method. This is partially why so many people were able to come up with a broad range of applications. Effects that previously would have been too chancy with forces in common use, suddenly become much more reliable via The Fource.

Mystification, pricing was a very difficult decision for me with The Fource. If I'd sold the original two-page idea for 10 dollars like I was planning, there would be many people up in arms that I let it go too cheaply and put it into the hands of too many. And they would be correct.

I mentioned above a new endorsement to go check out at Outlaw. It is from Richard Osterlind who has always been very upfront with me about pricing and we haven't always agreed. So the following meant a great deal to me:

"I think your asking price is more than fair. It is very usable material. Here's a quote for you.

"I love simple, effective ideas that are truly new. The Fource is one of them. It takes standard material and elevates it many notches. I have been using my own variation of this effect in my current show, but plan to adapt The Fource as a definite improvement! Many top names have contributed to this work and I found myself considering ways I can use some of their input for my other material. The book made me think and that's what I love. This is not pipedream stuff, but workable presentations that really hit home with your audience as a whole. I am excited by this book!"

Richard Osterlind 2008.

Thank you for that Richard. It is good to have every assurance I followed the correct path.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 29, 2008 05:00PM)
Wow! In the time it took me to type up that post, someone found the secret archive footage, sent it to Rick who posted it, making my day.

Eddie, you're the best. I can't believe you "researched" The Fource and found the lost movie. Truly wonderful.
Message: Posted by: Nicodemus (Sep 30, 2008 06:16PM)
Wow.. whoever 'Eddie' is and if he is the one that did this video.. for the Fource.. I tip my hat, darn clever and a really good editor...

http://web.me.com/edbain/The_Fource/Dr._Bill_Cushman.html

By hte way.. how is the world does he find such movies clips.. a perfect fit.

- Nicodemus
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Sep 30, 2008 08:09PM)
Thank you, Bill. I actually think the same in reverse; 'The Fource' made MY idea and application tons better/more workable, lots more impressive and I've been using it lately with killer results, so thanks again!

-J
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Sep 30, 2008 08:51PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-29 09:00, Mystification wrote:
Wow, sounds great. However $50.00 is a lot for an e-book. That will probably keep a lot of people away, which could be a good thing!

Im still on the fence.
[/quote]

$50.00 is a pittance for a miracle spun into different presentations and contributions from Enriquez, Becker, Arce, ALEXANDRE, Roth, Reynolds, Twose, Badman, Waters (Sean's contribution is SO good and from personal experience, really hits people hard), Bev, Longman, Finley, Razzano, Lior, Nu, and the good Dr. himself.

An incredible and underpriced collaborative project.

The only drawback is the analysis paralysis...it's difficult to decide where to begin!

D
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 1, 2008 12:03AM)
I absolutely agree that this is a Great 'Investment'.Dr.Bill takes an old and very effective psychological premise/effect,and with a stroke of his creative paint brush...a fresh mystery is born.

Add to that the wonderful contributions of some prolific thinkers.IMO this is the type of material that allows a performer to stoke his own creative fire,and come up with a 'unique and entertaining' presentation.Reading the ideas of some of these contributor's is what I like to call 'contageous inspiration'.

In my personal case...this enables me to take something that I have already been performing..and take it to the next level of impossibility and mystery.

Thank-you Dr.Bill

Happy trails.
Rich
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 1, 2008 03:58AM)
Since this is a psychological force, am I right to assume that it is not 100%? Or has something been incorporated into it to ensure 100% success?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Oct 1, 2008 05:11AM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-01 04:58, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Since this is a psychological force, am I right to assume that it is not 100%? Or has something been incorporated into it to ensure 100% success?
[/quote]
It's 100% cool my friend. You'll dig it.

BTW, if you told someone to just think of the names of 4 planets, and you called out 3 of the ones he was thinking of, you would blow them away.
Not 100%, but enough to fry someone.

As mentalists we don't always have to be 100% right to blow people away, in fact, not being 100% is even stronger...

That little bit is only an analogy about percentages as applied to our little art.

Duplicating something that looks like their drawing is stronger than an exact duplication of a drawing.

Fringe
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Oct 1, 2008 06:21AM)
So I think we can draw this conclusion from that response--no, it is not 100%.

I agree with what Roth said, not being exactly right can be stronger in some cases.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Oct 1, 2008 01:42PM)
It can be 100% but that is not an issue with this effect(s) you'd have to read the book to understand.

As Mystification pointed out, in our craft sometimes 90% can be stronger...
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 1, 2008 03:37PM)
I promised myself I wouldnt buy anymore ebooks for a while...

but....saying that...

there's far too many good reviews and contributions by people I like for me not to buy this...special price or not...

so paypal...here I come!
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 1, 2008 06:11PM)
Ah..The Fource is now with me...

Thank you Dr. Bill!
Message: Posted by: Mark Elsdon (Oct 2, 2008 03:02AM)
Dr. Bill,

The Fource is an exceptional example of how to take a premise that everyone knows and thinks is a bit hackneyed, and turn it into an incredible performance piece.

By looking at this concept from a fresh perspective, you have brought it into the 21st Century.

Kudos!

ME
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 2, 2008 05:17PM)
Thank you all, I really appreciate your feedback. And Rick, the 3 out of 4 planets analogy was very much on target. I just want to add two things, using your analogy as a starting point.

The nature of The Fource is such that you are apparently naming the planets out of a range of THOUSANDS of possibilities. So instead of a solar system, we are working with a universe of choices.

It follows then that when you are correctly naming the planets it is out of a far vaster field than previous methods allowed. A miss, should you get it, is subsequently that much more negligible.

I hope this offers some clarification. To be perfectly honest, until pondering Rick's words, I hadn't yet found a way to express this aspect which goes a lot to explaining the "exponential" impact of The Fource along side it's predecessors. And before I add to any confusion, The Fource has nothing to do with naming planets!
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Oct 2, 2008 07:18PM)
Actually Bill, in a weird way you can use The Fource as a prediction for planets. Think about it.

Greg
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 2, 2008 07:57PM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-02 20:18, Greg Arce wrote:
Actually Bill, in a weird way you can use The Fource as a prediction for planets. Think about it.

Greg
[/quote]
Not weird at all IMO,and there are many other interesting possibilities.

Rich
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 2, 2008 08:08PM)
I know guys, I just feared creating the least bit more confusion. I wanted everyone to keep in mind the purpose of the analogy rather than get lost in it. We have all seen threads get get derailed by less than that!
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Oct 2, 2008 08:15PM)
Wow....you can predict planets, huh...

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 2, 2008 08:57PM)
See what I mean :)?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Oct 3, 2008 01:02AM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-02 20:18, Greg Arce wrote:
Actually Bill, in a weird way you can use The Fource as a prediction for planets. Think about it.

Greg
[/quote]
Greg is correct...
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 3, 2008 01:09AM)
Yes Planets...or even various Outlaw wallets. :)
Message: Posted by: Waters (Oct 3, 2008 06:13AM)
I am honored to be a part of this release and though I have never met Dr. Bill, I value his thoughts, ideas and correspondence (so maybe I am a little biased in this post, but..). Once again he has offered a great ebook that focuses on a very workable method!

It's kind of hard to explain, but people who are hesitant to use any type of real psychological work, will find this application retains the "purity" of those tools, but is a pragmatic method that could be used by any performer (with a modicum of performance experience). There are also some safeguards built into the "Fource" which Dr. Bill discusses.

As I read through all the ideas put forth in the book, I am once again impressed with the creativity of the applications of Dr. Bill's method. This is another excellent release from Dr. Bill.

With regards,

Sean
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 4, 2008 03:36PM)
Thank you Sean. I was equally honored to have your fine contribution.

Millard Longman caught a typo that I'm going to correct but want to mention here for the people that already have The Fource. It is in the "Group Dynamics" chapter, the section of effects that don't use the basice Fource methodology and is in my effect "Sublime Subliminal Square." This is an updated, hands off and gimmick free version of my "Subliminal Square" first published in Banachek's "Psychological Subtleties 2."

He wrote me: "On page 54 of the fource, the second number in the fourth row should be 434 as in my email to you on the magic square. The pdf shows 424."

He is absolutely correct as he should be given he put the square together when my brain locked! Thanks again, Mill.
Message: Posted by: Jack Maxwell (Oct 10, 2008 03:45PM)
I recently had the chance to see Dr. Bill perform The Fource for about a dozen people in my shop. He did the original presentation that started it all and nailed it. The customers were freaking out.

In the past I've always been leery about using psychological forces but not any more! I'm working on a rotation of Rick Roth's ultra cool Fourcelosure (based on a legend of a Florida psychic) and Jamie Badman's super eerie Fources From Beyond (the story itself creeps me out) for my Halloween shows this year.

These are classic "packs small, plays big" presentations which are just what I need for this busy time of year. I want to thank the Doc for putting The Fource out there and showing me a whole new way of looking at these kinds of effects.
Message: Posted by: mindgames (Oct 10, 2008 06:09PM)
I got this when its not yet release from bill, when I read it I think its not supposed to be sell since its too god yet too easy for anyone who see it performed to duplicated it.
its not a new idea, but its a brilliant thinking behind the old concept and make it more reliable and suitable for real world.
my mind still hurt now thinking so many ideas to work with the fource.... not including the planets! :)
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Oct 10, 2008 08:21PM)
Okay, I spoke with Bill and asked his permission to do this. I have two other ideas using the Fource that never made it into the book so for those that own it you can PM and I'll send them to you.
Of course, I'll need proof you own The Fource so you can tell me what the idea is based on and I'll know you have it.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Roth (Oct 13, 2008 06:49PM)
Dr. Bill wanted me to let you guys know that the internet service in his neighborhood has been down for 2 days now and he should be able to respond to emails and e-book sales tomorrow.

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 15, 2008 02:08PM)
I'm baaaack! What torture not to have internet access.

I've taken care of all orders, PMs and emails. If somehow you were missed, please let me know. Thank you all for your patience and thanks Rick for letting everyone know I hadn't just absconded.
Message: Posted by: Blackwood (Oct 29, 2008 11:22AM)
In response to something I wrote elsewhere, Dr. Bill stated that The Fource allows users to psychologically force a four-digit number in a way that is easier and more reliable than psychologically forcing a one, two or three digit number. Given how difficult it has been for anyone to describe The Fource without saying too much, (me included) I thought I’d share this here.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned much is the wide variety of uses for the Fource contributed by some very respected thinkers in mentalism. Some don't even require The Fource methodology. I, myself, am using the basic method, dressed up with some show-biz, in brainstorming workshops to illustrate the power of synergy – multiple minds working together to spark solutions no one of the participants might have been able to arrive at alone.

As our British friends say: "It works a treat!"
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Nov 6, 2008 11:42PM)
If any of you do pencil/pen reading...'The Fource'by Bill Cushman lends itself nicely to this skill[for reasons that should be obvious for owners of the e-book].

This week I made a couple of perfectly accurate revelations and some partially accurate revelations.It is a work in progress,but IMO a worthy one.

PS.I have a methodology that I believe makes pencil/pen reading a little more accurate.PM me and I'll be happy to share.

Happy trails.
Rich
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Nov 10, 2008 04:47AM)
Just thought I would add my two cents here. First, this is NOT 100%. Second, for almost $50.00 I think it is way to high. Just my opinion. I had a friend use this in peformance, and I think that you need to do this one in front of as large an audience as is possible. This is not an effect for small audiences.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Nov 13, 2008 06:50AM)
I have a friend too...but you wouldn't know her...she's from Canada...

This "I have a friend" gambit is a bunch of hogwash...care to explain further?

I got this book on pre-sale, but if I missed it I would have paid my 50 bones, and been more than pleased. EVERYTHING I have gotten from the good Dr. Bill has been worth many more times than I've paid...not to mention all the other fine creators who added their priceless material to the book.

It has never been claimed that this works 100% of the time...but any good performer can make it seem like it! If your "friend" flubbed it, maybe your "friend" should look in the mirror, or just quit and get back to the fryer.

Just my opinion ;)

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Nov 13, 2008 10:47AM)
Sure, I will explain further. First, my friend didn't "flub" it. I never said he "flubbed" anything. My statement that it is not 100% is accurate as you yourself agree. I stated "JUST MY OPINION", and that what this is, just my opinion. My opinion, this is too high.

Since you are so impressed, I will give you a freebie for free. Ask a large audience to think of a color. Then show them you have a prediction, Your prediction is red. Have the audience raise their hands who thought of red. Then ask them who thought of blue?? And turn your paper around to show that you also had almost picked blue. Bet you will have a lot of raised hands between the two colors and they will leave thinking you are a real miracle worker. And I saved you $50.00
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Nov 13, 2008 01:21PM)
No...you didn't....I bought PS too.

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Nov 13, 2008 04:08PM)
As the author of The Fource, I suppose I should step in here. I appreciate what you are saying, Nathan, though I'm not sure Mystification got the point.

Misty, I know you knew The Fource isn't 100% as you even said it yourself on 10/1 when you wrote:

"I think we can draw this conclusion from that response--no, it is not 100%.

I agree with what Roth said, not being exactly right can be stronger in some cases."

So, I'm not sure where this is coming from at this late date.

As to the price, you wrote on 9/29:

"Wow, sounds great. However $50.00 is a lot for an e-book. That will probably keep a lot of people away, which could be a good thing! I’m still on the fence."

You actually hit the nail on the head! That was one reason for the price, which didn’t quite work as planned. I'd be disingenuous if I said I was completely upset by that (!) but my feelings are mixed.

By the way, did you ever "get off the fence?" I have no way of knowing if you actually bought The Fource (or read it :)) since you don't say so and use a pseudonym.

There are over 20 different presentations of The Fource included in the ebook, contributed by some of the best minds around. And based on the reactions I've received, I feel safe in stating that they are 100% entertaining! Several pros have already incorporated their preferred versions of The Fource into their acts. It has been extremely well received in the community.

I do agree that some versions are best performed in front of a larger audience. However, there are presentations that work fine with just a few people. And there are actually routines included where it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have 100% accuracy.

Plus, if you didn't read The Fource you might have missed that there is an entire second section where all but one of the effects are 100%. And that contribution, from Jerome Finley, is brilliant.

You are of course entitled to express your feelings here. If you did get off the fence and do own The Fource, I hope you can find the gold in there and make it work for you too.

By the way, what version did your friend perform? I'm not in any way implying he flubbed it but perhaps I can help direct him to the best version for his venue and performance needs. I'm more than glad to help.
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (Nov 13, 2008 05:10PM)
Hmmm.....

Nathan, just for sake of clarity, the RED / BLUE thing could be considered common knowledge and certainly is much, much OLDER than PS1.

Mystification, the RED / BLUE old dodge has nothing to do with Bill's original idea for the Fource.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Nov 13, 2008 05:27PM)
Paolo,

I know that...I was just being a smart alec :)

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Nov 14, 2008 08:35AM)
I probably should not have commented since I didn't purchase the e-book. I did watch a friend perform it, and he did it well. Maybe I am thinking like a Magician here. I saw right through it. However, I will admit that many were impressed that watched him. When I asked him about it, he mentioned the e-book and actually encouraged me to purchase it. I just felt that the price was too high for what I would get out of it. Which version did he do, Im not sure.

I am not implying that it is not worth the price, I just feel like it is not worth the price for me. I think that with this, much depends on your "character". My character couldn't pull this one off.

Also, since you mention several different methods in the book that I am not knowledgeable of, I apologize for my hasty post. There may very well be a goldmine in this e-book. I guess I was just commenting on a small part that I know about that didn't impress me.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Nov 14, 2008 08:52AM)
Mystification, I am, however,impressed by your response. That shows a lot of inegrity and I thank you for posting again.

You might be very surprised by not just one, but many effects within that will fit your charachter and performance opportunites.

Certainly if you have concerns about 100% results, and you are entitled to such feelings even if many of us don't feel that way, the second section "Group Dynamics" will meet you needs. At Alain Nu's suggestion, and with two contributions from him, it is comprised of effects that involve the entire audience at once and do not use The Fource method.

Also, and I know this is a shameless plug of sorts, there is information in my new ebook Suggestabilities, that is directly applicable to getting even more dependable results with ALL psychological methods. Suggestabilities contains far more than just what is in that one section but many people are writing to thank me for inlcuding a fresh approach in this area.

Again, thank you for following up. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
Message: Posted by: Jack Maxwell (Nov 14, 2008 02:06PM)
I mentioned last month that I was going to perform a rotation of Rick Roth's Fourceclosure and Jamie Badman's Fources From Beyond for my Halloween programs. I did and they rocked.

I tend toward humor (at least I like to think so :)) so played Fourceclosure that way, making it my own and as funny as as possible. With Jamie's routine, the impact is all in the story which is no way funny but way spooky.

I did a total of 6 shows for different audiences and used Fourceclosure 4 times and Fources From Beyond twice. I literally had people in tears with the latter, which was a bit strange for me but gave my show a new "texture" that is giving me a lot of food for thought.

My audiences ranged from 25 to 60, 70 people and I recieved a lot of compliments on my show and Fourceclosure and Fources From Beyond in particular. I just want to thank Dr. Bill for his great idea and Rick and Jamie for their presentations.

Now that Halloween is over, I'm going to start looking at some of the other contributions. In particular Fourcefield has caught my eye. I'll let you know how it goes!
Message: Posted by: npm37 (Nov 15, 2008 11:06PM)
I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus singing the praises of Dr Bill's "The Fource". I've just finished reading it and I'm insanely jealous of Dr Bill. Just when I think I have my show is a "sweet spot" he comes along and moves the bar a giant leap forward. The fource is my kind of mentalism because it's the kind of stuff that allows us to move from 100% sure-fire effects to the more on-the-edge stuff. The kind off effects that really resonate with audiences. But it allows us to do it in small steps. Bill is there guiding us and he is backed by a plethora of experienced mentalists adding their ideas. I love the fource and its many variations in this e-book and I can't wait to read Bill's next release "Suggestabilities".

I agree that in today's muck-laden morass of e-books it's difficult to find a winner, but believe me, The Fource is a diamond in the rough. Check it out.

Cheers,

Nick
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Nov 24, 2008 04:33PM)
Thanks guys! I really like hearing when ideas of mine make people think. And I love hearing about people putting them into use.

Jack, you picked a couple of winners with Roth and Badman's routines. As far as Dom's Fourcefield, I think it is a great twist on the remote viewing theme and the prop that is used made my day when he sent it to me to include.
Message: Posted by: coupcoupdaddy (Dec 7, 2008 09:57AM)
The Fource joins PS2, Flytrap and Dr. Bill's own Mira as stellar collaborative innovatations for techloperfs. We are in awe of this multi-contributered and Dr. Bill- generated 60 page ebook that Enrique Enriquez aptly describes as alchemical in his spectromantic fourward replete with positive prototype identification theory. We suspect his suspician is true--the Self could be a trance-like state new mary culled through the joys philter.

--Isso Liwok
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Dec 7, 2008 11:35AM)
Yeah, what he said...

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Dec 7, 2008 10:13PM)
Isso, that's exact;y what I've been saying! No problems there, we are on the same wave form. Prototype ID theory is cutting edge.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Dec 7, 2008 11:22PM)
I Just got this Fource Thingy.....look at this Thread, it's already 5 page long....I'll bet it will keep Growing

so to Doc Bill Cushy......I think everyone who buy this Fource Thing will generate more idea....

SO wouldn't be GREAT if they all send their ideas and Application from using The Fource to you.....then you distribute this Suplement solely to the owner of the Fource....or something similiar along this line

I know this Fource will improve my already Existing Act....Both of my Act that I curentli Revamped & Re-Visited......and Yes I do too have lots of Applications for this Fource......love to Share it, but not in an Open Forum


......
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Dec 8, 2008 04:28PM)
I second Mesmer's idea. I too have some ideas but again not something for an open forum.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Dec 8, 2008 05:15PM)
Hmm... how about calling it "Fourced Submissions?"

No there isn't a way to put ideas for The Fource on an open forum and I appreciate your recognizing this. It was hard enough to come up with a fair way to advertise the thing!

I do have a few ideas collected from people already. Also, for those who haven't followed the thread on Richard Osterlind's new book "Mystique," or don't own it, Richard recommends The Fource as an alternative to use with an effect he performs with his Two Faced prop. That was very flattering!

And I'm also very flattered by the interest expressed in some sort of follow-up to The Fource. It really stimulated a lot of great thinking and I appreciate the brainstorming that followed its release.

Feel free to email me your ideas at wcushman@bellsouth.net and I'll mull it over after I see what and how much more comes in. Is that fair?
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Jan 29, 2009 02:22PM)
You may have thought of it before but you haven't thought of all the variations and other ideas you'll find inside the book.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jan 29, 2009 04:19PM)
Well, Frank, once again it's a very simple solution: don't buy it! It won't change your life any if you never get this.
Or write to Bill directly and give him some hints as to what you think you've already invented and see if they are on the same track.
But the real simple solution is just to walk away and not get it. You probably already have a lifetime of effects at your disposal if you own any of the mentalism classics so adding one more thing will not change your performances.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Jan 29, 2009 07:10PM)
I like the part of Greg's solution that has you writing directly to me Frank :). Always a good idea.

Greg, feel free to jump over to Penny and help me with RTS! Or The Fource thread that suddenly sprung up there too. When it rains it cliches.

Here is what I just posted over at Pennys, avoiding less pleasant matters, with a bit of adaptation to try and incoporate questions that will next likely arise on this thread:

Last time this happened, people ended up thinking The Fource had something to do with divining one of the planets of our solar system! Now it is a serial number divination. When will it end?

Vlad, Frank, anyone who is still reading my blathering, The Fource is more than a subtlety but it is subtle. It can be used on its own or as part of larger routines. People can use pen and paper but certainly don't have to. Everything can be done impromptu, in the guest's mind and naked but some of the more interesting routines do incorporate props for revelations.

Given you could whittle this much info out of a combing old threads: The Fource is a "new" way to force a 1 to 4 digit number. Richard Osterlind recommends it as an option to use with an effect in Mystique which was very flattering.

Seriously, to this day I am probably the most amazed of anyone that all the feedback about the matter of originalty (save one and I'm glad to let that gentleman speak for himself since even he acknowledges that he neared the idea and then forgot about it. It is actually a funny tale) maintains that The Fource itself hadn't existed prior to my having a weird brain blip one day. And I keep waiting...

I am proud of The Fource force. I am more proud of what it inspired and how a less than 2 page idea turned into a 65 page tour de force (I really didn't type that) of ideas from many of the best out there.

It started out as just what I described until Alain Nu brought me to a screeching halt. I felt I had more than adequately vetted it for originality (with the above caveat) and, as per his suggestion, I contacted several more friends in "the community" for specific routines they were using it for or could adapt.

The response was overwhelming. Even the foreword by Enrique Enriquez could stand alone as the latest addition to his invisible series; "The Invisible Prism."

Some ideas with photos were suggested. A folder of jpgs ended up being created along with links to make personalized ones to fit your own routines or variations of the ones contributed.

Of course, Mr. Arce also cut loose but you'll have to read about that in the mss.

One of the strengths of the Fource is that all routines can be played to the entire audience AT ONCE. Think Cassidy's concept of "major effect." Alain encouraged me to inlcude a section of such effects NOT using The Fource force and proceeded to kick start it with two of his own. So back again to good friends.

This led to my including Sublime Subliminal Square (I can't even believe I'm using the word sublime right now. I am just asking for it ), the latest mutation of Subliminal Square from Banachek's PS 2. The more I use this, the happier I am that I didn't hard sell it originally though I probably just cheezed that pooch. SS for the whole audience; no props, no moves. No compromise.

I don't know what more to say, Vlad. Life will go on just fine for you without The Fource. But I am exceptionally pleased with it in itself and flattered by all it inspired and continues to inspire.

For those who like Greg, BD and Nathan try and help me through this morass of info, thanks!
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (Jan 29, 2009 08:00PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-29 20:10, Bill Cushman wrote:
Seriously, to this day I am probably the most amazed of anyone that all the feedback about the matter of originalty (save one and I'm glad to let that gentleman speak for himself since even he acknowledges that he neared the idea and then forgot about it. It is actually a funny tale)[/quote]

I believe Bill is referring to me here. I'll attempt to relay the tale in a way that will convey the humor without giving anything away...

When I read the manuscript, I was [i]sure[/i] I had heard of someone using the idea before, but for the life of me I couldn't remember who or where I'd heard about it... if it was from a book, a video, something from a forum or an email, a personal conversation, or what. So I told this to Bill, with my apologies for not being able to remember more specifically. Thankfully, it didn't prevent him from publishing his work.

Some weeks later, I was looking through some old files, and I finally remembered who it was that had come up with the idea: it was me. It was a small, subtle, inside joke I included (for my own amusement) as an utterly trivial detail in an illustration for something completely unrelated. At the time I thought, "Hmm, I wonder if that could be turned into a real effect? I'll have to give it some thought later." I then proceeded to forget about it completely.

The fact that I have looked right at the illustration literally thousands of times only deepened my embarrassment at not being able to remember who the "creator" was.
Message: Posted by: joe161205 (Feb 15, 2009 11:04PM)
I have this but I think this is not 100%. Bill could you recommend me how to do the outs if the effect is not works?
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Feb 16, 2009 12:52AM)
Of course The Fource force isn't 100%. And note that I walk into any conversation where this is even a subtext with great trepidation. Many of you will understand where I'm coming from in saying that.

And that is a shame since there are so many more important things to talk about. But I will overcome such concerns and will state here that to my knowledge no psychological force can be 100%. Perhaps more importantly, rarely - if ever - do performers want outs to achieve that level of accuracy when working the psychological side of the street. The potential to destroy the illusion of mentalism is too great.

But let's take a moment or two to look at some of the work inspired by my idea, "The Fource." And also the material contributed that exists even in a world where the words "The Fource" were never spoken.

Enrique's Foreword describes a routine in detail that could easily be developed with very little work into the next addition to his invisible series and called "The Invisible Prism." Within the goals he sets, you can achieve 100% success connecting with each audience member if you desire. By its very nature his words, the metaphors evoked, the words evoked by the metaphors, THEY increase your success while removing any pressure to get everything 100% right. If there is anything “supernatural” going on in EE's work it is this latter factor.

Not too long ago I participated in Stuart Cumberland's project, UPR - Ultimate Psychic Readings. Along with Stuart's in depth description of his basic method for readings, he interviewed several readers and myself. A theme that came up in almost, if not every, interview was the need to abandon the focus on the number of hits gained in this reading vs. that reading.

INSTEAD, there was a consensus to shift the focus to the quality of the connection achieved between sitter and reader and/or performer and audience. For Stuart's techniques taught in this 9 CD series were not only devoted to readers. He wanted to help the casual, corporate and stage mentalist become more successful in achieving the level of rapport needed to leave an audience and specific audience members with the experience that they had been touched in a way that transcended our typical definitions of communication.

And of course all of the incredible contributions from some of the best thinkers in mentalism give you so much to work with. I like to quote Kenton Knepper's words, "Meaning is the best misdirection." I believe we can take it even further than that. Meaning is the best way to engage any audience.

So, you know what? You go ahead and jump in with both feet into the deep end of the pool and perform Alexandre’s Cash Fource. Add in Greg Arce’s mind numbing twist (again, I’m back to meaningful to the nth degree), get spooky with Roth’s FourceClosure. Or, in the right time and place, break their hearts with the positively eerie “Fources From Beyond” by Jamie Badman. These guys know deep in their marrow that the play is the thing.

Joe, read through “The Fource” again, seriously, keeping my rants in mind. You don’t want an out for every one of these effects when they don’t reach 100%. Embedded in the meanings inherent in each effect, a perfectly fair 50%, let alone a 75%, without any chicanery to clean things up, is going to do more for you than the dozens of effects where 100% is virtually guaranteed but with compromise.

And I know there are effects that are incredible and allow for 100% in meaningful performance. They have their place, as do the effects in “The Fource.” One is not necessarily better than another, simply different.

You will also experience the wonder of finding that the more you perform these effects, you may and likely will increase your hits but even when you don’t, the stronger your impact will be. I say this with confidence from my own experiences and those shared with me.

I’ve been in situations where circumstances prevented the revelation. But the presentation was so engaging the audience didn’t even know! They were consumed by a sense of ritual they had just taken part in and that had lifted them above the mundane. They didn’t need anything else, let alone an outcome that scored what had preceded.

I know, I know, I’m ranting. But this subject is dear to my heart and learning it deeply and fully was a long time coming. The joyful experience of bringing together the creators who contributed to The Fource, to see, for example, how Millard Longman worked with the unknown, how Jerome Finley worked with the unknowable, taught me more than learning dozens of new surefire methods.

Please don’t think I for a moment eschew the surefire,100% predictable outcome. We may need that too as mentalists

Don't forget that the 2nd section does have effects that are 100% as defined by getting 100% of the audience involved with 100% success barring their own self-sabotage. This part was the brainchild of Alain Nu who convinced me the world of mentalism needed more whole audience effects and that something was needed in The Fource for those times a 100% outcome was vital.

Compare and contrast Lior Manor’s “On Your Feet” with Tony Razzano’s “Pendulum Party” for ways to make sure such needs are met but from totally different perspectives. Each in their own way, grabbing the room and not letting ago until it is time.

I could go on and on Joe. There is so much in The Fource to meet anyone’s needs. I think you will find it useful to step back and read The Fource again. Perhaps it isn’t your answers that will change but, rather, your questions. Should any questions remain, do not hesitate, go send me a message and I will gladly help you achieve the results you seek.
Message: Posted by: daghank (Feb 20, 2009 02:49AM)
Are there any problems with adapting this into a foreign language? I know that some psychological forces and mentalism effects can only be done in english,if that's the case for this force too,i will be sad :/
Message: Posted by: p_n_g (Feb 20, 2009 04:16AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-20 03:49, daghank wrote:
Are there any problems with adapting this into a foreign language? I know that some psychological forces and mentalism effects can only be done in english,if that's the case for this force too,i will be sad :/
[/quote]

It works in any language.
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Feb 20, 2009 09:51PM)
Norbert, I know you mean well, but are you absolutely sure? This question came up in response to RhymeTime Sublime, and the original RhymeTime, and the consesus there was it can be done in any language.

I've since been alerted to the distinct possibility RhymeTime or RhymeTime Sublime may not be performable in Japanese! I didn't discover this from a mentalist but rather from delicately asking certain questions of an intern from Japan where I work.

So while I'm not 100% certain (:)), and would love to hear from a mentalist who owns RhymeTime and/or RhymeTime Sublime and speaks Japanese, I would also like to have someone with those same qualifications answer the poster's question about The Fource.

It may be that there are a couple of rare exceptions for both. Or that Japanese is the one and only exception. I don't know and I hope someone on this board speaks Japanese fluently and can clear things up.
Message: Posted by: Paul Carnazzo (Aug 25, 2010 08:59AM)
I just checked out The Fource, and I am very impressed!

As stated many times in this thread, the individual ideas aren't new, but the way they are used is.

The real gems in this manuscript are the different presentational ideas that Bill and the stellar cast of contributors gives.

Properly presented, this can be a true impromptu miracle!

Excellent job Bill (and all of the contributors)!

I can't wait to check out more of your work.

Paul
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Sep 11, 2010 06:43AM)
Thanks Paul, I almost missed this!

You touch on two points that mean a great deal to me. First, the high quality of the contributions. The play is the thing, someone once said, and the "plays" inherent in the themes are awesome.

Your other comment was on the impromptu nature of The Fource. While of course many of the "plays" require a prop there are a great many things you can do when "your luggage is lost."

I like that premise, like Maven's "Nothing," and one day would like to do a riff on when your luggage and wallet are lost and you don't know what state you woke up in. Now there's a poser for putting togethter a show. But you can bet I'll be performing a version of The Foruce as will many others!