(Close Window)
Topic: Forcing a patina to copper Cups...
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 5, 2009 06:16PM)
Hey All,

Has anyone tried forcing a patina to their copper cups by using some of the methods one can find by goggling? I found one that uses baking soda; the others are scary chemical methods.

Thanks,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: FunTimeAl (Jan 5, 2009 06:18PM)
I'm no expert, but practicing & performing with them will get your cups to patina pretty quickly.
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 5, 2009 06:25PM)
Hi Chad,

I have been using a new set of Cups everyday for the past month as well as just handling them throughout the day. Nothing changed on them, just as shiny as if they were new. I suspect where I live is just too dry this time of year. Even the snow turns to powder. Last week I let the Cups sit in the shower and covered them with plastic bags… only then have they begun to change color.

Thanks,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Levity (Jan 5, 2009 07:05PM)
Hi Bruce,

I once heard of a gentleman who slept with his new cups (when his wife wasn't around of course), and I seem to recall it worked for him...oh, wait, darn it, I just remembered who it was.

G
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 5, 2009 07:11PM)
Geoffrey,
I guess this set of Cups just doesn’t do it for me. A local artisan suggested that I urinate on them... for now I just can't embrace the suggestion.

Maybe I should send them to your part of the world.

I hope all is going well for you, always good to speak with you G,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Levity (Jan 5, 2009 07:16PM)
Bruce,

It's so hot here today -- approaching 40 degrees celsius -- that I'd only have to LOOK at them and they'd tarnish to your satisfaction...why don't you fly down and we'll see what we can do?

Urination is wisely avoided, I have heard.

All best,

G
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Jan 5, 2009 07:30PM)
First make sure the are not clear coated
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 5, 2009 07:49PM)
Geoffrey,
That sounds good to me… it has been 15-17 degrees below 0 here. 3 more months of cold and then spring.

Walid,
They are not clear coated; I have never seen such a stubborn set of Cups. Oh by the way they are Squatty 2 Cups.

Thanks,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: professorwhut (Jan 5, 2009 08:08PM)
Wow, my Squatty 2 cups gained a very nice patina very quickly.
I got them a few months ago, it was still very warm in this part of the country, and humid.

good luck
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jan 6, 2009 01:28AM)
I've only had good luck with commercial patina formulas. I buy a small bottle at Home Depot for about $5. It doesn't always go on evenly, it's not anything like paint. How evenly I apply it really doesn't have much effect on the end result, it's how it turns afterward. A very thorough cleaning and degreasing, followed by a hot water rinse is best.

The chemical reacts more quickly when the cups are warm. Clean the cups, apply the mix (use gloves, otherwise you'll have green under your fingernails for a week)let stand until you can see a yellowish haze start to form. Rinse well and allow to set overnight. The next morning the cups will have changed colors again, sometimes not very evenly.

Repeat the process until the cups start evening out, or until your wife evicts you from her kitchen.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 6, 2009 09:10AM)
My mini-cups tend to Patina faster than the regular cups, is there any truth to this?
Message: Posted by: mrswilson (Jan 6, 2009 09:21AM)
@madkiki: Maybe because they have more contact to your skin?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2009 01:03AM)
The first thing is to do what Dave V suggests, clean and DEGREASE the cups. Use a good liquid detergent. If the cups don't squeak when you run your finger along the metal, they still aren't degreased.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Jan 7, 2009 06:38AM)
I've used several products to age cups. If you're going to use one of these, the advice from Dave & Bill is very sound if you're going to get an even colour (though impurities within the cups may still mean that the patina is not completely even).

I would say that the patina produed by the chemical methods is never as natural-looking as when the cups age naturally through handling. If you can be patient, then just using the cups will likely produce a better result. Whether you want to sleep with them is another matter...

A while ago, Rick Brooks (I think) suggested rubbing the cups on your head/forehead and massaging. Natural oils from skin stimulate the formation of the patina. I tried this and it worked very well. It means having to stop using those manly skincare products for a while, though. :)
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 7, 2009 11:12AM)
Cat pee in sawdust worked for me.
Message: Posted by: M for Magic (Jan 7, 2009 11:20AM)
Forcing a patina is kind of a weird concept to me.
Basically forcing a patina is trying to make the cups look as if they have been used a lot,
...why not just actually use them a lot?
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 7, 2009 12:37PM)
Jconstans, I agree... It's the same in the guitar world, although I was guilty of tinking of relicing a guitar when I used to play but I couldn't being myself to do it. I am sure Bill would have similar stories from the banjo world...
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 7, 2009 08:03PM)
If wanted a leather Wallet to have that age look, just run over it with your car, then use sandpaper, then.........
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 8, 2009 09:45AM)
The reason I would want to force a patina is… that I want them to look worn, Cups just look cool that way. I am a hobbyist, so I don’t perform with them everyday; however they are handled as much as I can. They are turning color now that I am placing them in the shower each morning and letting them sit until evening (not green but growing brown).

Don’t laugh at me, but other Cups have turn quickly for me by sleeping with them at night. These squatty 2 Cups are another story.

Thanks for all your replies,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Apprentice (Jan 8, 2009 10:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-08 10:45, BCS wrote:

Don’t laugh at me, but other Cups have turn quickly for me by sleeping with them at night. These squatty 2 Cups are another story.

[/quote]

Bruce,

Maybe you're losing your touch with the women. :pepper:

Either that or the Squatty 2's are playing hard to get.
;)

Wave your wand around and show 'em your balls....maybe the Squatty's will come around....:lover:
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 8, 2009 10:42AM)
Apprentice... LOL, that is funny, very funny.
Message: Posted by: ShawnB (Jan 8, 2009 11:05AM)
I don't know that the shower bit is helping your cause...

Its the oils in your skin that turns your cups... Not humidity.

If you want while you are watching TV just hold them. Once the copper feels warm, like body temp.. then they should be good. Hold them until your palms get a little sweaty...

That will work better then the shower and probably better then a chemical method.

Shawn
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 8, 2009 11:44AM)
Shawn,
Thanks for the input, maybe it is just coincidence, but the Cups have not done anything until I introduced moisture from the shower. Literally there is new color each night. The climate right now is so dry… sweating just doesn’t happen… maybe I am dead and don’t know it.

Thanks,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 8, 2009 12:03PM)
The moisture levle in people's hands is different from one person to another. I work as Wall-Climbing instructor and I sometime touch other people's hand to feel the amount of moisture their hands have to determine if they really need Chalk to help them climb better. Yes, some people need more chalk than others, some people just sweat a lot more than others.

My whole body leans on the dry side, my hands and feet are normally dry throughout the day that I need to put lotion on. I never use chalk when I am climbing, because I just don't need it.

Now, I have been rubbing my cups recently as much as possible to get the patina process to speed up, but it is taking forever. I guess I am going to have to wait longer than other people for my cups to turn strange colors.
Message: Posted by: ShawnB (Jan 8, 2009 12:43PM)
You could allways run in place... Grab some of your pit greese forehead greese ... whatever and apply to the cups... Don't smear it... Dab it and in moderation... Too much sweat will get you nowhere are well.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 8, 2009 01:24PM)
Here's a good "crafty" page of patina solutions:

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Create-Green-Patina-on-Copper-Crafts-For-a-Vintage-Look&id=1227497

essentially the rule is this: sulfurous solutions will create a green (verdigris) patina. Ferric solutions will create a brown (or even black) patina.

here is a list of MANY solutions to add patina to copper cups:

http://alexbealer.org/node/223

I don't really care if you cannot get the chemicals you need in your area, sorry...
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Jan 8, 2009 01:29PM)
You've got to be careful what you do. Some of the patinas are very superficial and will flake easily. That's going to be a problem with cups which are nested & un-nested, hit with a wand, etc.
Message: Posted by: Magic1man (Jan 10, 2009 08:13AM)
I work for an architectural sheet metal company and have had to patina many projects in the past. Completely dipping the cups in the solution will provide a more even finish then brushing. Make sure to keep each cup in for the exact same amount of time. We have discovered that cleaning the surfaces with fine scotch brite before dipping makes a huge difference in how the metal takes the finish and the finishes durability. Don’t worry about the fine lines put on by the Scotch brite they will disappear when the metal is dipped. Also make sure to wear gloves when handling the cups while cleaning and dipping or your fingerprints will show up in the finish. After removing the cup from the solution dip it in a bucket of water and while it is submerged gently wipe it clean with a soft cloth. After the cups are dry if you don’t like the finish, or there is a problem with it, just start over. Varying the dip time will lighten or darken the cups.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 11, 2009 01:07PM)
[quote]
Don’t laugh at me, but other Cups have turn quickly for me by sleeping with them at night. These squatty 2 Cups are another story.
[/quote]

Bruce, come on, how can you say "Don't laugh at me..." and then tell us that! That's the best thing I have heard all week!

Thank you :)

Bri
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (Jan 11, 2009 01:19PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 14:07, mindyourmagic wrote:
[quote]
Don’t laugh at me, but other Cups have turn quickly for me by sleeping with them at night. These squatty 2 Cups are another story.
[/quote]

Bruce, come on, how can you say "Don't laugh at me..." and then tell us that! That's the best thing I have heard all week!

Thank you :)

Bri
[/quote]

REALLY? I thought "Cat pee in sawdust" was the funniest thing I heard all week!
Message: Posted by: dcjames (Jan 11, 2009 02:14PM)
The following link will take you to a site containing the same formulas that Gaddy linked to earlier:

http://www.sciencecompany.com/patinas/patinaformulas.htm

The only difference being that this page provides a link for the purchase of each chemical.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 11, 2009 05:58PM)
As we were talking about patina I thought I would have a go at showing the 4 different ones on the coppers I have.

From left to right Morriseys (my first ever set of cups and the are laquered so no patina), JES Squatties (still quite bright), Ken Brooke (P&L's never been polished and I think they look lovely), Phoenix cups (never poished and looking nice).

To be honest the cups look 100% better in real life and I now realise what job Bill has with his 1500+ sets in photographing them, I've only photographed 4!

Bri
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 11, 2009 06:08PM)
That link does not work for me!

:^):<
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 11, 2009 06:31PM)
It's not a link, it's a picture. It shows on my screen? Not sure what's happened madkiki? Sorry
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 12, 2009 09:20AM)
Thanks all for your comments regarding patina.

I have decided not to go the chemical route… I will keep handling them and exposing them to moisture from the shower.

Best wishes,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 12, 2009 12:51PM)
Bruce,

Maybe you could go on vacation to somewhere warm, take the cups with you and just sit in the sun playing with the cups.
Say, Vegas perhaps.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 12, 2009 12:55PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 18:58, mindyourmagic wrote:
As we were talking about patina I thought I would have a go at showing the 4 different ones on the coppers I have.

From left to right Morriseys (my first ever set of cups and the are laquered so no patina), JES Squatties (still quite bright), Ken Brooke (P&L's never been polished and I think they look lovely), Phoenix cups (never poished and looking nice).

To be honest the cups look 100% better in real life and I now realise what job Bill has with his 1500+ sets in photographing them, I've only photographed 4!

Bri
[/quote]

That photo looks a lot better than the first few I took! The secret is in the lighting.
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 12, 2009 01:58PM)
Well Tom…. There is a Vegas vacation in my future. I will take the Cups to Craps Table with me, if things turn for the worse, I am sure that the sweat I produce will turn any Cups.

Take care,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 12, 2009 02:42PM)
:rotf:
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 12, 2009 03:00PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 14:19, DDecae wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 14:07, mindyourmagic wrote:
[quote]
Don’t laugh at me, but other Cups have turn quickly for me by sleeping with them at night. These squatty 2 Cups are another story.
[/quote]

Bruce, come on, how can you say "Don't laugh at me..." and then tell us that! That's the best thing I have heard all week!

Thank you :)

Bri
[/quote]

REALLY? I thought "Cat pee in sawdust" was the funniest thing I heard all week!
[/quote]

The REALLY funny thing is that it works better than any other solution I've seen here. No lie!
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 12, 2009 04:11PM)
Don't do this to me! I have a cat who uses wood based litter... Now you've actually got me considering it...

I thought I was normal and now you have me thinking of sleeping and showering with my cups and dumping them in the cats litter tray! Nope, I just know I would never be able to explain it to the Mrs! What are you doing to my head!!!! :D

:cups:
Message: Posted by: Etienne M. (Jan 12, 2009 05:03PM)
Maybe a bit off topic, but why can't I see the picture?

Floyd
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 12, 2009 10:06PM)
I thought this thread was a little too far out there, but now it has me placing my cups on the bathroom counter while I shower. Let the shower mist cover the cups, I refuse to take the cups into the shower with me.

Once in a while the cups go with me when I sit down to watch TV, and I will stroke them like crazy.

I refuse to waste money on chemicals and do not like the idea of using chemicals on my cups. Too lazy to do it anyway.

What will I do next?
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 13, 2009 01:49AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-12 17:11, mindyourmagic wrote:
Don't do this to me! I have a cat who uses wood based litter... Now you've actually got me considering it...

I thought I was normal and now you have me thinking of sleeping and showering with my cups and dumping them in the cats litter tray! Nope, I just know I would never be able to explain it to the Mrs! What are you doing to my head!!!! :D

:cups:
[/quote]

Pete Biro gave me this idea. Here's how it looked when I first finished this, admittedly funky process:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/reverendgaddy/cup-2.jpg[/img]
the marbling effect is from the pellets and is consistent from cup to cup.

Apparently they used to use this process with the... um... urine from horses... to coat copper clad rooftops before the chemical constituents became readily available commercially...

I love it!

PS- sorry for messing with your head...
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 13, 2009 12:20PM)
Wow, nice Patina. It would great to see other examples.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 13, 2009 12:22PM)
I have been handling my cups with my bare hands only on the outside of the cups, don't have the time to work on the inside of the cups.

Is anyone else trying to "Patina" the inside of their cups?
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 13, 2009 12:23PM)
What kind of cups are those anyway?
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 13, 2009 03:09PM)
Thay look like Phoenix cups from Tom Frank.
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 13, 2009 03:44PM)
Gaddy... Way cool looking Cups!!!

Madkiki... I agree with Tom, those are TF Phoenix Cups.

Best wishes to all,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 13, 2009 04:04PM)
TF phoenix cups they are indeed...
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 13, 2009 06:16PM)
I got one right :yippee:
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 16, 2009 01:22PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-13 02:49, gaddy wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-12 17:11, mindyourmagic wrote:
Don't do this to me! I have a cat who uses wood based litter... Now you've actually got me considering it...

I thought I was normal and now you have me thinking of sleeping and showering with my cups and dumping them in the cats litter tray! Nope, I just know I would never be able to explain it to the Mrs! What are you doing to my head!!!! :D

:cups:
[/quote]

Pete Biro gave me this idea. Here's how it looked when I first finished this, admittedly funky process:


the marbling effect is from the pellets and is consistent from cup to cup.

Apparently they used to use this process with the... um... urine from horses... to coat copper clad rooftops before the chemical constituents became readily available commercially...

I love it!

PS- sorry for messing with your head...
[/quote]

Gaddy, I really likethe look of that. I lovethemonkey fist ball with the Phoenix too, better than the originals I think. Thanks for sharing :)

Right, off in thebath now with my Sherwoods! ;)
lol

Bri
Message: Posted by: ursusminor (Jan 17, 2009 09:24AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 12:20, jconstans wrote:
Forcing a patina is kind of a weird concept to me.
Basically forcing a patina is trying to make the cups look as if they have been used a lot,
...why not just actually use them a lot?
[/quote]

My thoughts, exactly...

Bjørn
Message: Posted by: rickmagic1 (Jan 17, 2009 12:18PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 12:20, jconstans wrote:
Forcing a patina is kind of a weird concept to me.
Basically forcing a patina is trying to make the cups look as if they have been used a lot,
...why not just actually use them a lot?
[/quote]

I have to agree on this one. I had a custom made set of cups that I wanted lacquer-free so that it would patina. I've attached a photo of the cups when I got them, and another "after" photo. To be honest, it took a couple of months to get a good even patina just from handling, but I'd rather have that look than any "forced" method.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2186/2038554271_3f2652c900_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/3204392086_fb6f503ff6_o.jpg
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 17, 2009 01:02PM)
Rick… I remember reading your post when you first received your Cups; they are great looking by the way. The pictures show a big change from when you got them.

Thanks,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 17, 2009 02:37PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-17 10:24, ursusminor wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 12:20, jconstans wrote:
Forcing a patina is kind of a weird concept to me.
Basically forcing a patina is trying to make the cups look as if they have been used a lot,
...why not just actually use them a lot?
[/quote]

My thoughts, exactly...

Bjørn
[/quote]

well, for starters, the "natural way" of patina-ing a cup tales a long time, is often uneven or causes an undesirable "metal smell" on the cups and can also shape up to not be the desired color.

I use my cups every day, and I'm still glad I used a chemical wash to get exactly what I wanted from the base metal, instantly.
Message: Posted by: rickmagic1 (Jan 17, 2009 03:28PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-17 14:02, BCS wrote:
Rick… I remember reading your post when you first received your Cups; they are great looking by the way. The pictures show a big change from when you got them.

Thanks,
Bruce
[/quote]

Thanks, Bruce. I now have a new set of the copper Paul Faux cups and am going to be anxiously awaiting that same patina.
Message: Posted by: ursusminor (Jan 17, 2009 08:21PM)
[quote]
well, for starters, the "natural way" of patina-ing a cup tales a long time, is often uneven or causes an undesirable "metal smell" on the cups and can also shape up to not be the desired color.

I use my cups every day, and I'm still glad I used a chemical wash to get exactly what I wanted from the base metal, instantly.
[/quote]

It does take time, I know.
It was the irony of the thing that struck me!

Your Phoenix-Cup looks really spectacular!
Did you bury them in "prepared" cat-litter, or rub them with it?

I'm actually tempted to try, as you can see!

Bjørn
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jan 18, 2009 07:16PM)
I found this very interesting…. Copper and its antibacterial properties.
http://www.allbusiness.com/technology/computer-hardware/877917-1.html
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 31, 2009 11:14PM)
My SBL Pro Worker cups finally went dark without the aid of chemicals, pee, cat litter, or being put into the shower.

I had been picking up the cups and running my fingers all over the cups everyday and this was taking way too long. So, one day I decided to just hold the cups in the palms of my hands for about ten minutes per cup and repeating the process a number of times. The next day they were dark, and now I know it is the palm of my hands that holds all the Patina Magic. Will continue to add the Patina Magic for several more days until my other new cups arrive.

Get a grip people! :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 31, 2009 11:18PM)
If you handle them when you are frightened they will darken more quickly. Being frightened causes your perspiration to be more acidic.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 31, 2009 11:22PM)
Nothing frightens me, but I do get angry a lot. :(
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Feb 10, 2009 10:44AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-01 00:18, Bill Palmer wrote:
If you handle them when you are frightened they will darken more quickly. Being frightened causes your perspiration to be more acidic.
[/quote]

In that case when my 2 sets of cups and 2 chop cups arrive I shall nervously hold them when I explain to Mrs W how much I spent...

I should think they will patina beautifully...
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Feb 10, 2009 12:05PM)
:rotf:
Message: Posted by: BCS (Feb 10, 2009 12:13PM)
That's funny.... and so true.
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Feb 10, 2009 12:48PM)
Are you talking from experience Bruce?







I am!!!
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 10, 2009 12:59PM)
My bride never asks anymore! I left a set of brand new Mendoza's sitting on the coffee table in the bag for 3 days then out of the bag for another 2 before she even noticed! Then again I never ask about the packages that arrive for her but ALWAYS compliment anything she's wearing that I think might be new! Pete's bride gets nutcrackers, Bill's gets jewelry and mine gets WHATEVER she wants! LOL
Message: Posted by: djkuttdecks (Feb 10, 2009 01:07PM)
Same here... mine gets photo lenses and books, don't know why :) I get cups and decks of cards... surprisingly they are about the same cost.

-DJ
Message: Posted by: BCS (Feb 10, 2009 02:13PM)
Tom… sometimes I have to dance around the issue.

For the most part, my wife is good about it. She just does not understand why I need more. I think it is because she has never had a hobby the requires collecting things.

If she complains too much, I tell her about the other hobbies I could have or I could go back to drinking.

Best wishes,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 10, 2009 08:51PM)
***I tell her about the other hobbies I could have or I could go back to drinking.***

Bruce,

I only pulled the ol' "I could always go back to drinkin" once! After over 2 decades in that group of significant others of ex drunks her comment was simply "Bummer, that would sure suck for you"!
Message: Posted by: BCS (Feb 10, 2009 09:37PM)
Hey Mickey…. She knows that I am joking with her. All and all I could not ask for a better wife.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 10, 2009 10:58PM)
I think that all of us are very fortunate to have wives who are "cup tolerant."
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 11, 2009 12:10AM)
I totally agree Bill!
I think mine's just glad I rarely buy guitars or horses anymore!
Message: Posted by: flimnar (Mar 8, 2009 09:46AM)
I tried rubbing my cups after exercising in the morning, and it rubbed off all of the patina that had already started to form! Must be something I ate.......
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Mar 8, 2009 03:40PM)
I don't think the "rubbing" is the right thing to do, it might be better to hold them in the palm of your hands long enough to allow the metal to absorb the acid coming from your hands.

Just grip the cups and rotate in 30 second increments for a total of 15 minutes for each cup. No Rubbing.
Message: Posted by: DomKabala (Mar 9, 2009 12:43PM)
I have used this with great results...
http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=cp0235&channelId=

The Patina Green solution contains ammonium chloride and copper sulfide. When applied to copper it will react and a light chocolate brown and a subtle hint of green is the result.

Just make sure there is no clear coat, degrease the object, and apply with a brush or spray it on.

My recently bought Little Don Alan copper chop cup was antiqued with this and I am very happy with the results.

Cardamagically,
Dom :) ;)
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Mar 9, 2009 01:04PM)
That's the same stuff I use. After washing the cups thoroughly, I wipe this on with a paper towel. You're not "painting" with it, only starting the chemical reaction. Be prepared for green fingernails for a few days. Wipe gently a few times through the day, not to add more, but to evenly distribute the film that develops. After letting stand overnight, you can either repeat the process or go to the next step and rinse the cups with HOT water. Try not to wipe anything at this point. What you're looking for is an even coloring. When the cup air dries you'll see a yellow haze form. This is good. Let it go for a while until the cup darkens evenly. If you wipe it off too soon, you'll remove the patina and have to start over. If you wait too long, it'll turn green and you'll probably have to start over. Once the cups are evenly colored, gently wash off the haze (yellow hands this time) and let them dry. The cups will continue to oxidize naturally from there until you stop the process by waxing or otherwise sealing the cups.

If you don't like the results, or if you get blotchy spots, just use something like Wright's Copper Cleaner and start over.

Frank Starsini saw the results of one day of this treatment at WMS on my new Mendozas.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Mar 9, 2009 09:45PM)
Chemicals? Get a grip!
Message: Posted by: milesg (Mar 10, 2009 01:20AM)
Here's an example of what I came up with after experimenting with a chemical patina solution: Sulfur!

I found an old bottle of granular sulfur from a chemistry set in my garage and remembered that sulfur is one of the best ways to get a minor corrosive reaction with copper.

I ground up the grains into a very fine dust... Maybe 1/8 tsp. or less. Then stirred in a few drops of water to make a paste. With [i]warm[/i] hands (held under a hot faucet for a minute or two), I rubbed the paste onto the exterior of the cup and kept adding a drop or two of water periodically as the mixture dried out. Over about 10 minutes, the cups started to change and looked as it does in the photo after only one application.

[img]http://www.fetusporn.com/milesg/cups.jpg[/img]

Repeat the process for the other cups and you're good to go! It's hard to see in the photo, but the copper also takes on a great purple/blue sparkle.

NOTE: It is hard to get a consistent result with this method. I only tried it because it didn't cost me anything. I made the mistake of using too much sulfur on one of the cups, and also ran the cup under very hot water to rinse it off; the result was some very large BLACK spots which needed to be polished out. With careful control over temperature and quantities of sulfur, I know a consistent result can be achieved.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Mar 10, 2009 08:29AM)
My cup looks just like that, and I never used chemicals. Next month I should have photos of my entire collection and you will see how my cups turned out.
Message: Posted by: BCS (Mar 10, 2009 09:16AM)
Keith… you are just a man with intense man of action kind of sweat, you could probably turn aluminum Cups. I look forward to seeing the pictures.

My Squatty Cups are now all cloudy and turning that dark penny look, I just rotate the Cups each day and handle them.

I have read about many formulas on the internet, but the use of chemicals scare me. There was one with baking soda that I was tempted to use, but decided against.

Take care,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: dcjames (Mar 10, 2009 08:54PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-10 10:16, BCS wrote:

I have read about many formulas on the internet, but the use of chemicals scare me. There was one with baking soda that I was tempted to use, but decided against.

[/quote]

I have experimented with numerous types of home 'recipes' on my set of TF Phoenix Cups over the past month. After many attempts, I have now cleaned them back to their original finish. (Well, actually better than the original finish.)

The baking soda idea seemed to be working but produced very odd looking results... Initially it seemed fine, but after several applications they were very splotchy and odd looking.

Vinegar and amonia applied directly to warm cups wasn't any better. Dark spots and odd pinkish swirls.

Fuming with vinegar only, (Cups suspended above vinegar in an air tight container.) resulted in the deepest blue-green fuzz imaginable. This was rinsed off to reveal a finish that looked as if the cups had survived a fire.

I considered trying Liver of Sulfur or one of the other 'patina restoring' chemicals, but at the end of the day have decided to let them be... if they turn fine, if not, then that's fine too. I handle my cups daily but beyond finger prints and smudges they all look pretty much like new.

Miles - I think your cup looks great. Hopefully mine will get there eventually.

Best,

dc
Message: Posted by: milesg (Mar 11, 2009 12:55AM)
Thanks DC. I got them to become about similarly brown with regular handling, but then for some reason one of them got a HUGE shiny golden palm print on it. Like my print had washed away all of the patina. It looked horrible to have such a huge difference on just one of the cups.

I got tired of waiting for it to blend back in, so I tried the sulfur.

Like I said, it's hard to get a consistent result with that method, but since the time frame isn't so long, it may be worth trying. However, that picture is not a before/after, it's an after/before.... I ended up polishing them, and now I'm trying the natural handling technique again.

-Miles
Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (Mar 11, 2009 05:47AM)
I'm to afraid to use any chemical on my cups...

I just handle it and with a little help from weather here

this is some pictures of my cups

3 days old : http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q106/andrelimantara/DSCN1403.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q106/andrelimantara/DSCN1401.jpg

6 days old : http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q106/andrelimantara/DSCN1417.jpg

a month old : http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q106/andrelimantara/2594_66590151317_550076317_2152400_.jpg

Cheers
Andre
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 11, 2009 11:25AM)
The main thing when you try to get a patina on your cups -- whether you use artificial means or not -- is to clean and degrease the cups thoroughly. Don't just wash them. Use a good liquid detergent, then a good degreaser. Then rinse the degreaser off the cups with distilled or filtered water.
Message: Posted by: ramoss (Mar 11, 2009 05:43PM)
Andre,
I like the watch. Does it turn clockwise or is it mis direction?
Bob
Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (Mar 11, 2009 08:36PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-11 18:43, ramoss wrote:
Andre,
I like the watch. Does it turn clockwise or is it mis direction?
Bob
[/quote]

Hi, Bob
It's a normal watch. Doesn't do anything :)
FYI it's Seiko Arctura

Cheers
Andre
Message: Posted by: milesg (Mar 12, 2009 12:44AM)
Nice patina Andre. I should bring my cups along on my next tropical vacation. Amazing how fast they browned~!
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Mar 12, 2009 12:45AM)
I have the opposite problem. Living in Las Vegas with very low humidity, my cups keep their shine for years. That's why I resorted to the artificial "kick start" to get things going.
Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (Mar 12, 2009 03:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-12 01:44, milesg wrote:
Nice patina Andre. I should bring my cups along on my next tropical vacation. Amazing how fast they browned~!
[/quote]

Yup, milesg... should do that.
Within a week time, you will get a brown cup :)

Cheers
Andre