(Close Window)
Topic: Displaying NDO
Message: Posted by: Doug McKenzie (Jan 23, 2009 09:44PM)
Does anyone know a clever way of displaying a deck that is already in New Deck Order as being shuffled? To be very specific, the deck is in actual NDO, not any other order that can be brought to NDO quickly. (one faro shuffle away from being in NDO for example). Lee Asher's Pulp friction can be used as a close solution to this, but then you end up with a portion of the deck that isn't in actual NDO. I also don't want to use double facers or any other type of gimmick.

Thanks

Doug
Message: Posted by: Maestro (Jan 23, 2009 10:05PM)
Deck switch :P. This probably isn't what you're looking for, but without knowing what application you're using it for it's kind of hard to recommend anything with such strict conditions. It sounds like if you had a way to do that you would have quite an effect in and of itself.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Jan 23, 2009 10:14PM)
Could you clarify? Do you want to ribbon spread it on the table or spread it between your hands? Or just make sure the spectator is convinced the deck is mixed?

SEY
Message: Posted by: Alel (Jan 23, 2009 10:20PM)
IF you simply want to imply the deck is indeed shuffled and actually show the faces, one practical solution would be:

Do any false shuffle utilizing a [i]circulation[/i] of blocks.

Lennart Green taught a circulation shuffle in one of his Green Magic videos. It looks similar to the Underhand Shuffle. You could use these shuffles and execute them face-up.

:)

But if you wish to actually spread the cards between the hands or on the table, I don't have any idea how that could be possible (without gaffs)...
Message: Posted by: Doug McKenzie (Jan 23, 2009 10:30PM)
In the hands would be better ... though table would be acceptable. I want an actual display (some cards could be side-jogged in a ribbon spread for example). That solution doesn't actually work for NDO though because the blocks are too big.

D
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Jan 23, 2009 11:31PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-23 23:30, Doug McKenzie wrote:
In the hands would be better ... though table would be acceptable. I want an actual display (some cards could be side-jogged in a ribbon spread for example). That solution doesn't actually work for NDO though because the blocks are too big.
[/quote]
I got nothin'....

SEY
Message: Posted by: Carlo (Jan 24, 2009 12:35AM)
How about a false overhand shuffle with the faces of the cards toward the spectator? Anyway it works with the Bob King (variant of Erdnase blind shuffle retaining entire order, first method) shuffle from The Annotated Erdnase by Darwin Ortiz. The spectator sees a random card showing up on the face after each chop AND the cards apparently being thoroughly shuffled. NDO will not be suspected if you take and throw the packets crisply and cleanly. Smearing the cards too much will reveal consecutively numbered cards next to each other so you want to avoid that. Because no cards actually change place you end up with the same card on the face at the end as was there at the beginning, but there's ways around that depending on your context.

This might not be the kind of display you had in mind, but I mention it in case it's helpful.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Jan 24, 2009 12:43AM)
Heck, there's lots of ways you can do it with a shuffle.

He said he wanted to spread the cards-- either between his hands or on the table...

SEY
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Jan 24, 2009 01:39PM)
The best way to convince the audience the deck is shuffled is to shuffle the deck. Then, any displays after that aren't to prove, but only reinforce. So, false shuffle the deck -- convincingly, of course, but not as though your life depended on it. Then with the deck face down in your left hand, push off/spread about ten cards, roughly square them (not precisely squaring them, but only roughly) and take them with the right hand, raising them to show the face card to the audience. Push off another five to ten cards, take those beneath the first packet, raise and show, etc. Do this four or five times, showing cards of various values and suits. The fact that they see different cards is enough without having to spread through every card in the deck. Since they should already believe the cards are mixed, they shouldn't question this display. Attitude and deportment are important.

Good luck, and remember...should any member of your team be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.
Message: Posted by: The Whisperer (Jan 24, 2009 02:01PM)
I have an idea that I think Derren Brown uses for his out of this world routine (although I cannot remember the exact source or if it was even Derren Brown for that matter - can someone confirm?), some cards are outjogged while the rest of the deck is hidden in a type of cop position. The deck is held face-down towards the palm, so the spectator sees the back of your hand when the faces are shown.

You could use the 'anti-faro' (Christian Engblom - 'Que Raro') to outjog the cards... experiment with the idea... just food for your thoughts!
Message: Posted by: Hakuzosu (Jan 24, 2009 04:45PM)
Well, in terms of spreading the deck, I don't have any idea. Though you could dribble the cards face up (make sure it's a bit messy when you're done) between your hands slightly more quick than normal, and point out that each card is different from the other. If you do it at the right tempo after some false shuffling, the audience should believe that the deck is in a random order. It's not a very obvious display, though more of a subtle convincer. Hopefully that helped (though it may not be at all what you were looking for).
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 24, 2009 05:09PM)
If you did a Faro type shuffle but did not fully square the packets then spread the pack face up for a moment, then stripped out the packet as an in the hands cutting action you'd have something close enough to get by.
Message: Posted by: spatlind (Jan 24, 2009 06:59PM)
I think what I was going to suggest is about the opposite of Jonathan's suggestion. Get the deck in condition for Faro no. 8. Execute the Faro, but don't square, leave one half side jogged. If you were able to introduce the deck in this condition and then give it a pressure fan, face up, then only every second card would show. When you square them they would be in NDO. (I think, I haven't tried it ;) )
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Jan 24, 2009 07:38PM)
I know you said no double-facers or other type of gimmick, but what about extra cards?

Behind the bar, I used to do a version of Triumph where the deck ended with one card face-up in all the face-down cards as usual, but I then showed them that the deck was back in NDO and the selection was in its proper numerical location.

So far, so what. It's been done before, right? What made this interesting is that I had a deck with 12 extra cards on the bottom that were shuffled. Holding the deck deep in my left hand, I could spread off those 12 cards (until I saw the Ace of Spades) as I introduced the trick. Then, I turned the deck face down and copped off the cards as I spread the deck for the selection.

Obviously the environment (standing behind the bar) helped me pull this off, as it gave me a convenient place to dump the unwanted extra cards, but the illusion that the deck was shuffled was unbeatable.

Jason
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Jan 25, 2009 05:24AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-24 19:59, spatlind wrote:
I think what I was going to suggest is about the opposite of Jonathan's suggestion. Get the deck in condition for Faro no. 8. Execute the Faro, but don't square, leave one half side jogged. If you were able to introduce the deck in this condition and then give it a pressure fan, face up, then only every second card would show. When you square them they would be in NDO. (I think, I haven't tried it ;) )
[/quote]

Think for a moment about which cards [i]would[/i] show in the fan.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 25, 2009 07:33AM)
The sidejogged thing has other applications - in this case just catty cornered so the indices show is a better bet.
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (Jan 25, 2009 08:40AM)
Jason,

that's very clever. I do something similar with an extra block of cards (to show mixed) and a triumph. I'll show you the idea next time I see you (which is...?)...

As far as the initial topic goes: if you take 5 cards from the bottom, and 5 from the top, it will APPEAR to be sort of mixed (high cards, low cards, reds and blacks). You'll have to find some way to rearrange them, but that's the price you pay.

Personally I think a shuffle then a dribble display should suffice- but I don't know the application.

Ben
Message: Posted by: spatlind (Jan 25, 2009 10:42AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 06:24, Open Traveller wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-24 19:59, spatlind wrote:
I think what I was going to suggest is about the opposite of Jonathan's suggestion. Get the deck in condition for Faro no. 8. Execute the Faro, but don't square, leave one half side jogged. If you were able to introduce the deck in this condition and then give it a pressure fan, face up, then only every second card would show. When you square them they would be in NDO. (I think, I haven't tried it ;) )
[/quote]

Think for a moment about which cards [i]would[/i] show in the fan.
[/quote]

True, not very deceptive!
Message: Posted by: spencerpeterson (Feb 1, 2009 07:47PM)
[b]Anti-Faro!!![/b]
Message: Posted by: SilentScReaM (Feb 2, 2009 12:56AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-24 19:59, spatlind wrote:
I think what I was going to suggest is about the opposite of Jonathan's suggestion. Get the deck in condition for Faro no. 8. Execute the Faro, but don't square, leave one half side jogged. If you were able to introduce the deck in this condition and then give it a pressure fan, face up, then only every second card would show. When you square them they would be in NDO. (I think, I haven't tried it ;) )
[/quote]

Yes,actually you can ribbon spread the cards on table.
Joshua Jay has some works on it,and it works great.
Message: Posted by: Doug McKenzie (Feb 2, 2009 02:58AM)
You can't ribbon spread a deck that is in NDO. The blocks of color separation are too big and become noticeable, even after 7 perfect faros (8 blocks of solid alternating color) and sidejogging.
Message: Posted by: spencerpeterson (Feb 2, 2009 08:23PM)
I figured something out, you might be interested.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Feb 2, 2009 10:11PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 11:42, spatlind wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-25 06:24, Open Traveller wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-24 19:59, spatlind wrote:
I think what I was going to suggest is about the opposite of Jonathan's suggestion. Get the deck in condition for Faro no. 8. Execute the Faro, but don't square, leave one half side jogged. If you were able to introduce the deck in this condition and then give it a pressure fan, face up, then only every second card would show. When you square them they would be in NDO. (I think, I haven't tried it ;) )
[/quote]

Think for a moment about which cards [i]would[/i] show in the fan.
[/quote]

True, not very deceptive!
[/quote]

For those not willing or inclined or with the skill set to do this, you'd be showing, from the face, the Ace-King of spades followed by the Ace-King of Diamonds. I suppose some spectators would think that all of the clubs and hearts had vanished, but that would be an entirely different effect!