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Topic: Ofeensive language in reel magic
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jan 25, 2009 10:15PM)
Is anyone here offended by any of the language in reel magic?

thnaks
koz
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Jan 25, 2009 11:49PM)
!@#$ no!

Kevin
Message: Posted by: Juliegel (Jan 26, 2009 12:23AM)
If anything I am offended that you would think I would be offended. What do you take me for.

Ha.


Juliegel
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 26, 2009 02:01AM)
No

let the kids be naughty
Message: Posted by: The Great Stevini (Jan 26, 2009 11:54AM)
I'm offended by the bleeps!
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 26, 2009 12:41PM)
I'm slightly enamored by the David Regal bleeps. Where did you guys find that sound byte?
Message: Posted by: Leo Reynolds Jr (Jan 26, 2009 02:16PM)
Don't see any need for it.Not that I'm going to quite buying it just could do with out it never thought that kind of humor was funny.
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jan 26, 2009 03:01PM)
Leo, I agree with you compeletly, And I see no reason for it at all.....So from now on there will be no adult content in the magazine.....

I feel that some may like the edge but certainly wont stop buying it without that edge and others will be offended by it wont buy it so this change has been made.

There are some other changes in music, the flow, treatment of ads that will be changed in the April issue of Reel Magic.

Every issue of Reel Magic I have found things that I just don't like....and the Febuary issue is no different...we will continue to work to make this the best value in magic today!
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Jan 27, 2009 08:36PM)
Thank you, Ted. I'd stopped buying [i]Reel Magic[/i] because of this. It's good to know that I can start picking it up again.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jan 27, 2009 11:59PM)
Listen, there is one bad word on the new one...that will be the last time I promise

koz
Message: Posted by: Juliegel (Jan 28, 2009 12:56AM)
Who cares really about language. What ever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. Ted I love your Mag but censorship is something I find a tad offensive. It makes me feel like I am a notch below the few that do not approve of such vulgaritys. If you are going to put people on camera to give a column they should not have to change for anyone. I do not buy Reel to hear people swear but I also don't buy it to have people being told not to.I personaly do not swear ever. Not once in the past ten years and back then I was given a 20 to do it but I like to know that I can and if people are offended then that is fine by me. They get to realize something about themselves in relation to everyone else.

I would not change a thing.


Juliegel
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Jan 29, 2009 05:35PM)
Is it censorship when the editor makes policy, or when a government does it? This is a question which has been argued back & forth with no sign of letting up.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jan 29, 2009 06:49PM)
I want a kid to to be able to watch this...its my decision...i don't think it has a negative impact on what were trying to accomplish and its better for me if more want to see it...so this is my policy, I don't have to do this but I'm going to...

there really is not a good reason for us to include adult content....

look it, reel magic is the best deal in magic and I don't want to lose guys because we cant refrain from using the f bomb...so we don't use it anymore ....

I promise all of you that this thing is going to get really good over the next year....

koz
Message: Posted by: sleightly (Jan 29, 2009 07:01PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-29 19:49, tedb wrote:
there really is not a good reason for us to include adult content....
[/quote]

Except that this *is* for adults (not in the pornographic sense)....

You could always *bleep* and black box the mouth if it is a real issue....

Language is language. "Naughty" words only matter if you let them matter...
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Jan 30, 2009 11:43PM)
Of course if it's not in the pornographic sense, why have pornographic words?

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet, who still prefers niceness to meanness.
Message: Posted by: sleightly (Jan 31, 2009 09:54AM)
Words can have many different meanings. Many, many words we use commonly today were horrifically obscene in their original context. That doesn't stop us from using them, unknowing of their disgusting origins.

Language mutates, changes over time. The words don't matter, what does matter is intent. If someone is using words to deliberately wound, they reveal their own pettiness, bias and insecurity.

*We* control our own speech, our own ideas and how we wish to be affected by others words.

To be horrified by an utterance of a word seems ridiculous absent the context. Are there appropriate times/venues for specific language? Certainly, but once you start banning words, it is a short step to banning books and ultimately restricting free speech...

To resort to what some would consider "foul" language is not unlike raising your voice when you should reinforce your argument. It has value (shock-value perhaps) but in some circles establishes character and opens dialogue that might otherwise be restricted.

That being said, as Ecclesiates reads, "to everything there is a season". Knowing the appropriate time/location/audience is the key to avoid excessive alienation. You don't want to offend too many as you'll have no one to talk with, but choice of language and specific expression of ideas will also draw those interested in your ideas and method of delivery...
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Feb 3, 2009 08:40PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-27 21:36, mormonyoyoman wrote:
Thank you, Ted. I'd stopped buying [i]Reel Magic[/i] because of this. *jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
[/quote]

Seriously??

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just surprised. Even at its wildest I find Reel Magic MUCH tamer than Street Magic (which you contributed to), and even that seemed tame enough.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Feb 3, 2009 08:59PM)
I worked "a real job" about 10 years ago and in an e-mail I put the word "hell". One fellow made a Federal case out of it. On and on about all sorts if moral stuff.

Two years later he got caught cheating on his wife. Interesting what lurks in the hearts of men....

Anyway, I'm from NY, so I didn't even notice there was blue language on Reel magic.
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Feb 4, 2009 12:23AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-03 21:40, Magiguy wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-27 21:36, mormonyoyoman wrote:
Thank you, Ted. I'd stopped buying [i]Reel Magic[/i] because of this. *jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
[/quote]

Seriously??

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just surprised. Even at its wildest I find Reel Magic MUCH tamer than Street Magic (which you contributed to), and even that seemed tame enough.
[/quote]

And you're wondering why I stopped writing for [i]Street Magic[/i]?

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Feb 8, 2009 03:38AM)
To be honest Koz, I never noticed any swearing on previous issues. I do think it is a good idea to not have any strong language because kids might be watching.

Currently I buy the dvd from a dealer, to support them. If you don't make as much per issue selling wholesale I would rather buy directly from you.

Keep up the great work,

Doug L.
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Feb 8, 2009 09:24AM)
I love the dealers but I also love selling direct....its up to you....i really love it when people buy it!

thanks

koz
Message: Posted by: epoptika (Feb 8, 2009 12:06PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-31 10:54, sleightly wrote:
Words can have many different meanings. Many, many words we use commonly today were horrifically obscene in their original context. That doesn't stop us from using them, unknowing of their disgusting origins.

Language mutates, changes over time. The words don't matter, what does matter is intent. If someone is using words to deliberately wound, they reveal their own pettiness, bias and insecurity.

*We* control our own speech, our own ideas and how we wish to be affected by others words.

To be horrified by an utterance of a word seems ridiculous absent the context. Are there appropriate times/venues for specific language? Certainly, but once you start banning words, it is a short step to banning books and ultimately restricting free speech...

To resort to what some would consider "foul" language is not unlike raising your voice when you should reinforce your argument. It has value (shock-value perhaps) but in some circles establishes character and opens dialogue that might otherwise be restricted.

That being said, as Ecclesiates reads, "to everything there is a season". Knowing the appropriate time/location/audience is the key to avoid excessive alienation. You don't want to offend too many as you'll have no one to talk with, but choice of language and specific expression of ideas will also draw those interested in your ideas and method of delivery...
[/quote]

Good post, Andrew. There is definitely a right time & place, etc.

I've been known to swear like a drunken sailor (frequently) but I know not to do it in the presence of genteel folks. I don't appreciate hearing it when I'm out with my wife or taking my mother out for tea & biscuits nor did I tolerate it at my bar in the many years I tended bar. I listened to many a drunken fellow protest "... but it's a bar!" as I was tossing him out the door (after due warning).

I think it makes a great deal of sense from a business point of view. Is anyone going to drop their subscription because there are no expletives? People will, however, not buy it if it offends their sensibilities.

Enjoyed meeting you at the Magi Fest, Kozmo, I've not had a chance to watch the stack of magazine DVD's that I left with but I'm looking forward to them when I get back to Florida. (Still chuckling from your anecdote about the Canadian episode.)

For those who were not at the Fest you missed the previews of the Reel's upcoming interview/tour of Mike Caveny's home with its magnificent magic treasures. Send your subscriptions in now!
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Feb 8, 2009 03:03PM)
It's questions like this that should be answered by the work of George Carlin.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 8, 2009 10:07PM)
I applaud your decision Ted. I am offended by by the "F" bomb and other words of similar ilk especially the way Regal used it. You or anyone else has a right to say and write and record what you want and I have a right not to buy it. After the last issue I decided my money would be better spent elsewhere. I have reconsidered. We aren't a communist country (yet).
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Feb 9, 2009 05:35PM)
People are still offened by language in 2009? Wow am I out out-of-the-loop.
Message: Posted by: Fred Johnson (Feb 9, 2009 06:50PM)
Apparently ther are a lot of Gospel Magician readers.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (Feb 12, 2009 08:59AM)
Since Kozmo has already announced his decision not to allow potentially offensive language in future issues of his video magazine I guess further discussion of the issue is moot - but I'll add a couple comments just the same.

I am neither a gospel magician nor a church-going person. However, I try to respect the feelings and opinions of people who are. I admire the work of David Regal (and George Carlin) but I thought the repetitious use of "the expletive in question" seemed forced and contrived. And offensive.

There is no foul language that I have not used when angered or annoyed or stressing a point and I hardly notice when people swear in personal conversation, however I avoid the company of anyone who swears constantly and who does not consider the company they are in before blurting out the "F" bomb and similar strong language. I am not offended when I read it in fiction or hear it in a movie (within reason) but I just don't like to encounter it in the context of a magic magazine. If I were a parent with a 14 year old interested in magic I would not permit him/her to subscribe to anything containing such language and, again, I applaud Kozmo's wise decision.

Just my opinion.
Message: Posted by: MLDupree (May 30, 2009 07:33PM)
I see no reason to have foul language in Reel Magazine. I also applaud your decision. Keep up the good work.
Message: Posted by: Mike Webb (Jun 15, 2009 07:03AM)
Keep up the good work Koz!
Message: Posted by: Bertrand Thornley (Jun 16, 2009 02:30AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-03 21:59, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:


Two years later he got caught cheating on his wife. Interesting what lurks in the hearts of men....
[/quote]

that's gods honest truth right there. Grown men who are offended by naughty words almost always have much nastier thoughts in their head. Its actually the same kind of thinking that goes on in some middle eastern cultures.(WARNING: that statement is a generalization and in no way reflects the entirety or the beauty and complexity of any Middle Eastern culture!!) The ones that chop off your hand for violating "morals". The so called men are afraid of womens ankles and then end up raping them in private and murdering people who disagree with them. Its a level of development that uses a kind of infantile repression towards things in human nature that are perfectly natural and really neutral in FACT, but good/bad in cultural belief.

So there are religious sects in Iraq and ones in America that function from the same developmental level! Isn't that interesting...who would have guessed?

I explained all that; not to be a smartypants, but because its important to understand. There will be peace on this earth only when grown men decide to actually grow up and make honesty--with themselves--the first measure of their Virtue.

On the other hand, its perfectly reasonable to take expletives out of a video that will inevitably be seen by children.

OK rant is finished. at ease
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Jun 16, 2009 02:25PM)
[quote]
On 2009-06-16 03:30, Bertrand Thornley wrote:
Grown men who are offended by naughty words almost always have much nastier thoughts in their head.
[/quote]

Out and out falsehood, expressed as a blatantly bigoted generalization.

Look, I know you hate Christians and evidently Muslims too. No need to advertise; there are plenty of people here who agree with you.

*jeep!
--Grandpa
Message: Posted by: Bertrand Thornley (Jun 16, 2009 03:37PM)
That's not a falsehood Chet. Its based on common sense as well as legitimate psychodynamic theory and many many years of academically accepted and verified developmental psychology. Why would you say I hate Christians?...or Muslims. I hate no one. But I really dislike the self-serving hiding behind some counterfeit piety. I carefully and precisely said my statement was not aimed at all Muslims. Most are very good people. Likewise, there are many Christians who truly live the teachings of Christ and should be commended for thier service and magnaminity of spirit. Your response seems--and I could be wrong--to come from a position of victimhood. It has a tone of persecution. that's unwarranted. You'll have to work that out with yourself. Basically, I'm saying I hope no man,woman or child is judged--or actually believed to be less a person or child of God by the curse words they use. That would be morally wrong by confusing the inside with the most trivial gestures of the outside. Where is the wisdom or compassion there. There is none--just human childishness. Aren't there more important matters at hand in a spiritual sense or even basic human sense? Of course there is!! So lets get to it!

Sincerely
Bert
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Jun 16, 2009 03:38PM)
Your use of "almost always" betrays your actual feelings.

--Grandpa
Message: Posted by: Bertrand Thornley (Jun 16, 2009 05:17PM)
[quote]
On 2009-06-16 16:38, mormonyoyoman wrote:
Your use of "almost always" betrays your actual feelings.

--Grandpa
[/quote]
what? I'm totally confused by that. You have bonked me with your clever yoyo.LOL
Really though, my "true feelings" are none other than what is said and explained.
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Jun 20, 2009 10:42PM)
I personally am pleased you decided to remove this content, Ted. I think it adds a touch of extra class to the product. I am no saint (actually I would never argue against anyone calling me a sinner!) but I have always personally found swearing/coarse language to be a turnoff in artistic presentations, whether it be music, drama, magic, etc. I'm not saying it isn't sometimes a very effective way to convey the depth of emotion a person is trying to articulate surrounding a topic, but I just always found it in bad taste.

Actually, I wonder how many of the magicians here who would argue for keeping the language in the product would advise other magicians who are trying to get repeat bookings to use this language in their performances. For that matter, I wonder how many of these magicians use swearing in their own performances.
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Jun 20, 2009 10:44PM)
By the way,

Language or not, thanks for a great product, Ted. I look forward to each new issue. I only wish it were monthly!
Message: Posted by: Carrie Sue (Jun 23, 2009 03:36PM)
Thanks to Fritz for his comments. Men need to remember that female magicians also are watching these videos, and whether it's for entertainment or education, I firmly believe you don't have to be dragged through the mud for it.

Magicians, like other entertainers, will benefit from being more classy in front of their audiences, whether they are in person or else. Being classy entails watching your phraseology, keeping a civil tongue in your head.

I stopped getting Reel Magic because of the coarse language. I may be reconsidering that decision now.

Carrie
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Jun 23, 2009 03:43PM)
Hey carrie,
come back! :)

koz
Message: Posted by: Geoff Williams (Jun 26, 2009 07:11PM)
I'm a huge fan of Reel Magic (and not because Kozmo made some bad judgement calls by putting me on it a couple of times). I heartily applaud his willingness to listen to the magic public and make adjustments for the betterment of the product.

I'll always be looking forward to the next one.


A fan,

Geoff
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Jun 26, 2009 07:41PM)
Geoff, I like your eyepatch!

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
Message: Posted by: Bill (Jun 27, 2009 11:36AM)
I'd prefer that you stop the coarse language for the purpose of making the magazine classier. To say it's for the kids is a cop-out. If you listen to kids nowadays, their language is just as coarse as adults, well, unless their three.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jul 4, 2009 04:08PM)
No one can be offended by what you DON'T say! Keep up the great work, Koz!

Doug
Message: Posted by: ray raymond (Jul 7, 2009 06:33PM)
Just my 2 cents on this topic and censorship. Censorship is when you are not allowed to express your self and your feelings. However, making the decision to keep course language out is good for bussiness, it is good for parents, and it is also shows a more professional and positive direction for this publication. there is already enough negativity out there in the world. THIS IS NOT CENSORSHIP. any one with an elementary school education should have a broad enough vocabulary that they can still express them selves and there opinions, without using a few select words and phrases. Keep in mind the decision to block certain points of views, and opinions was not made, that is what censorship really is. If one is not able to do that then, that is not kozmo's fault that one idividual does not have the vocabulary of a 5th grader.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 7, 2009 06:54PM)
Keep up the good work Koz.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 10, 2009 08:57PM)
So my suggestion to have strippers introduce the Move Monkey section is being passed on? Sigh. Subscriptions would triple.

I once went to a lecture by a popular magician. It was held in a room in a restaurant/lounge. Next door was a "gentleman's club". Well....when a shift ended, the gals came into the lounge of the restaurant and passed by the lecture room. One by one....the fellows started leaving the lecture and going into the lounge.

Sex sells. Even L&L has added 'female entertainers' in the audience.
Message: Posted by: Voldemort (Jul 25, 2009 09:22PM)
[quote]
On 2009-06-23 16:36, Carrie Sue wrote:
Thanks to Fritz for his comments. Men need to remember that female magicians also are watching these videos, and whether it's for entertainment or education, I firmly believe you don't have to be dragged through the mud for it.


Carrie
[/quote]

Wait a second... Your saying that the problem with having coarse language in reel magic (According to you) is that WOMEN may watch it. That's why it should change?

What kind of a load of bunk is that?

I think you need to listen to the way that WOMEN talk these days.
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Jul 30, 2009 08:12PM)
I was going to say. . . my daughter could make a sailor blush. . . and she didn't learn it (all) from me. . . her mom was a much better source of offensive language than me.
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Aug 12, 2009 02:51PM)
In short, because some people use dirty language, we all must endure it?

*jeep!
--Grandpa