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Topic: Riffle Culling Sources
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 28, 2009 05:12PM)
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for sources of riffle culling, that is, culling desired cards to the top/bottom of the deck using a riffle shuffle (or zarros or strip outs). I have read Jerry Sadowitz book Thanks to Zarrow, which is very nice, but I am looking for some more sources. I heard Andrew Wimhurst has some material on riffle culling, but the only item I can find of his is his dvd Card Artistry, and it doesn't have any stacking of this sort (it has plenty of other stacking stuff though).

Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance,
Rmax
Message: Posted by: James Alan (Jan 28, 2009 05:50PM)
REVELATION
Message: Posted by: Denis Behr (Jan 28, 2009 06:03PM)
[url=http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/route/entries.php?url=10,745,484,717,465]Here are some suggestions you can look for.[/url] (Some are not easy to find.)
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Jan 28, 2009 06:04PM)
Ed Marlo Riffle Shuffle Systems
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 28, 2009 07:37PM)
Great, thank you everyone.
Message: Posted by: C-Taylor (Jan 28, 2009 10:06PM)
Also Paul R Wilson has some riffle culling stuff in magic magazine. Sorry I'm not at home to check the issue #.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 28, 2009 10:39PM)
I am having some difficulty finding some of these books. Anyone know where I can get the Andrew Wimhurst book or the Karl Fulves books/notes or the Marlo magazines?

I know where to get revelations and the castle notebooks.
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Jan 28, 2009 11:12PM)
Andrew Wimhurst is on the Cafť, so you can ask him.

If the Fulves manuscripts you seek are still in print, Karl Fulves is happy to sell them directly: Karl Fulves, Box 433, Teaneck NJ 07666. Other works of his that were published in hardbound editions by L&L are all gone. Check the auctions.

The Marlo Magazines are out of print and occasionally appear on eBay or other outlets for some pretty high prices. By "high prices," I mean several hundred dollars per volume. Good luck.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 28, 2009 11:22PM)
Thank you Open Traveller

I have tried emailing Andrew Wimhurst, but he hasn't responded. Is his member ID simply "Andrew Wimhurst" or does he have a different title on the Cafť?

Also, is Riffle Shuffle Setups the same as or very similar to Riffle Shuffle Methods or Riffle Shuffle Techniques. All three are by Fulves. Anyone know?

Thank you, everyone has been very helpful.
Message: Posted by: skillzilla (Jan 29, 2009 12:53AM)
I always wanted to ask, was vernon any good at the steves cull?
beacause I'm sure he devoted a lot of study to that move
Message: Posted by: Denis Behr (Jan 29, 2009 03:03AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-29 00:22, Magicmaven wrote:
Also, is Riffle Shuffle Setups the same as or very similar to Riffle Shuffle Methods or Riffle Shuffle Techniques. All three are by Fulves. Anyone know?
[/quote]
No, Riffle Shuffle Set-ups is a different book.

Denis
Message: Posted by: El Mystico (Jan 29, 2009 06:33AM)
There is a lot of riffle shuffle work spread through Cervon's Castle notebooks
Message: Posted by: Demonbrn (Jan 29, 2009 07:46AM)
I'm currious to know if there is an entire book out on culling in general. I've been practicing culls for a few weeks now (not anywhere close to useing them in preformanc) and am trying to get 2 down (force, and a method of stacking (I've been working on the million dollar card trick improptu, and need a method to get the top 3 cards in order)).
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Jan 29, 2009 09:39AM)
@Magicmaven: He's here as ASW. The last I checked, you could become a member of Jon Racherbaumer's site for a fee and then download every e-book he has there at no additional cost. I believe Marlo's [i]Riffle Shuffle Systems[/i] is included as part of that.

@skillzilla: Are you ****ing kidding us?

@Demonbrn: Marlo had a method of controlling three selections to the top of the deck in two cuts. Check your [i]Heirophant[/i] (which, by the way, is also available on Jon's site).
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 29, 2009 11:02AM)
Thank you again.
Message: Posted by: Cub≥d (Jan 29, 2009 11:41AM)
There isn't a huge amount on riffle culling in andrew's notes.. but they are good anyway.. you can purchase them through Michael vincent:
http://www.michaelvincentproductions.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.michaelvincentproductions.com%2fcgi-bin%2fss000001.pl%3fpage%3dsearch%26PR%3d-1%26TB%3dA%26SS%3dwhimhurst%26ACTION%3dquick%20search&WD=wimhurst&PN=Books_Booklets.html%23a31#a31
Message: Posted by: popcalinda (Jan 30, 2009 11:38AM)
Where to get Riffle Shuffle Methods?
I am missing only that from Fulves Riffle Series...
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 30, 2009 06:27PM)
Try these culling techniques....although this cull uses marked cards, so no peaking is involved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wogXJGSt7ng&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwYXeAHHDE&feature=channel_page

Enjoy !
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Jan 30, 2009 06:43PM)
OT,
Isn't it because of Vernon that the Steven's Cull even saw the light of day?
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Jan 30, 2009 07:51PM)
Or Johan Nepomuk Hofzinser?...
Message: Posted by: Hansen (Jan 31, 2009 12:31AM)
There's a book being written by an expert in this field. Be patient. I hear it will be with us in the next year or so. It will contain everything you need to know to completely master this technique.

In the meantime, try getting your hands on Andrew Wimhurst's "Down Under Deals" booklet, it will point you in the right direction.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Jan 31, 2009 09:04AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-31 01:31, Hansen wrote:
There's a book being written by an expert in this field. Be patient. I hear it will be with us in the next year or so. It will contain everything you need to know to completely master this technique.
[/quote]
?????
Message: Posted by: Hansen (Jan 31, 2009 12:17PM)
Mr Ben.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 1, 2009 08:46AM)
How neat for you.
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 1, 2009 12:23PM)
How neat for all of us, and if you decide to ignore that material, it'll be your loss. Not that it will affect our behaviour regarding Mr. Ben's upcoming release, so feel free to dismiss it out of hand if you like.
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Feb 1, 2009 01:06PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-30 19:43, MickeyPainless wrote:
OT,
Isn't it because of Vernon that the Steven's Cull even saw the light of day?
[/quote]

Yes, at least, the "light of day" amongst us magicians. The part I was reacting to was when skillzilla asked if Vernon was any good at the technique.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 1, 2009 04:07PM)
Oh I caught that right away! ;)
My question was to verify what I thought I remembered reading somewhere!
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Feb 1, 2009 06:26PM)
Who is Ben?
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 1, 2009 06:32PM)
Ben was the rat in the Michael Jackson song. Ben was the bear in Gentle Ben. Then there was Ben There done that..........

I believe they're talking about David Ben but I'm often wrong!
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 1, 2009 09:38PM)
Mr. Ben - the expert on culling with the riffle shuffle? What method of culling does Mr. Ben "the expert" use? The Stevens cull? Or a different slant on the Fulves material?

Or perhaps something new or different?

And what would make Mr. Ben an expert or perhaps "the" expert?
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Feb 1, 2009 10:47PM)
I am not knowledgeable enough to tell you about who is an expert at riffle stacking, Glenn. I am not a professional magician either. I have read your manuscripts you were kind enough to share. Thank you by the way! They provide quite a contrast to Mr. Ben's writings.

I do know that David Ben wrote the Zarrow book and that fantastic Vernon biography. He was a student of Ross Bertram. I believe he was the ONLY student of Mr. Bertram.

I've read the Vernon biography twice. I've worked through some of the shuffle work in the Zarrow book.

I believe you and Mr. Ben have little in common. He is obviously college educated. He writes in a fluid and dynamic style. He has an editor and uses him/her. Mr. Ben is obviously far more knowledgeable about magic history and has the deep respect of the entire magic community. At least the part of the magic community that is literate.

You make yourself look small and ill-informed when you post things like that. I, on the other hand, always come off mean-spirited and hateful when I post things like this.

Luckily, David Ben has neither of our bad habits.

Read a magic book once in a while, Glenn. Don't try to compete with people in the magic community who have garnered real accolades from their contemporaries and have client lists most magicians are too stupid to even realize exist.

David Ben does shows at the Smithsonian, he is REGULARLY on television. He is writing some of the greatest books in magic.

That's what makes him an expert magician. The fact that he wrote the Zarrow book and hung out with Ross freakin' Betram, makes me believe he'd embarrass the hell out you in any discussion.

I hope this answers your question! :)
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 2, 2009 12:08AM)
Well as usual Mr Gunn has put into more eloquent words what I was only thinking! Although I try not to judge a book by it's cover, in this case the writings are quite clear!
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 2, 2009 07:04AM)
David Ben has years of practice wit the Stevens Cull, has read private correspondence from Vernon discussing the move, and has read all of the traditional stuff out there on it (Marlo, Fulves, etc.).

You on the other hand were bragging about not reading the materials which are available to all. This may make your take on culling "unique"; not necessarily original but still developed by you. It does not make you any kind of expert however.

I am very much looking forward to Mr. Ben's book. If nothing else, it will certainly read much better than your own manuscript, and I can expect less (or none at all) of the lazy copy-pasting that I see in your work. Based on that I certainly will support Mr. Ben in his efforts. When you consider all he may know about the sleight, the decision of all culling lovers should be obvious, and I don't think anyone is taking a chance by buying the book.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 08:19AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
I believe you and Mr. Ben have little in common. He is obviously college educated. He writes in a fluid and dynamic style. He has an editor and uses him/her. Mr. Ben is obviously far more knowledgeable about magic history and has the deep respect of the entire magic community. At least the part of the magic community that is literate.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for answering my question that it is David Ben that they were talking about.

But from my point of view I don't have very much in common with David Ben from what you wrote about above. I have no collage education - and I barley got through high school and also have dyslexia. And I can honestly say that if I had not gotten into magic - I may have never made it through high school. But perhaps more about that later.
[quote]
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
You make yourself look small and ill-informed when you post things like that. I, on the other hand, always come off mean-spirited and hateful when I post things like this.
[/quote]
I am very sorry that you feel that people that ask questions make them look small and ill-informed. My question was partly to find out why some magicians today are considered to be an expert.

In my day - and in my opinion what I thought was an "expert" magician was a magician like Jay Marshall - Don Alan and Jack Pyle my dad Billy Bishop (who was a heck of a great card man in his day) and many others that did magic but also made a living at it. I don't have to say that I grew up around these people and as I was growing up around these people and learned quite a lot from these people and more - I thought in my ill-informed way - that "they" were experts.

Thanks very much for correcting me and telling me how ill-informed I was.
[quote]
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
Read a magic book once in a while, Glenn.
[/quote]
Wow Kent you jumped from - me not knowing that they were talking about David Ben to read a magic book - assuming that I do not read magic books. Well it looks like it is story time. Back when I was working at the Marshall Brodien magic shop at Old Chicago I used to read quite a lot of magic books. This includes the time when the place became Bishop's magic shop and later had two locations.

However - if I may add it was "reading" magic books that helped me learn to read and give me the desire to read that helped me through high school - and gave me my what was called - ill-informed education.

I used to have quite a large magic library - however years of being on the road doing shows and having to move about twenty five times in my life - I have had to cut the library down and only have a select number of books - that I re-read. Because my goal in magic is not to have the "biggest" library but only books that serve my need - when looking for good performance material to use at shows.
[quote]
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
Don't try to compete with people in the magic community who have garnered real accolades from their contemporaries and have client lists most magicians are too stupid to even realize exist.
[/quote]
I am sorry - but I will continue to publish my routine ideas and my Dads routine ideas for as long as I feel that it is necessary. But if you do not think that my ideas are worth you time or money - except when they are free - well then just don't buy them - or even if they are free - don't go there.

As I said and have said many times I have no problem with magicians that don't like what I do. However - some may be interested because I do magic and have over 30 years of performing experience and this - plus including my Dads stuff.

And if you don't know to much about Billy Bishop perhaps you should read the book I wrote about him that was published by David Charvet. Some magicians found the book interesting - and his material useful - however it includes little card work.

Perhaps you donít consider magicians like him and Jay Marshall experts!

The rest is not worth my time to respond to except to say thanks for answering my question in your Kent - smoking Gunn way (laughing).
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 08:33AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 08:04, splice wrote:
David Ben has years of practice wit the Stevens Cull, has read private correspondence from Vernon discussing the move, and has read all of the traditional stuff out there on it (Marlo, Fulves, etc.).

You on the other hand were bragging about not reading the materials which are available to all. This may make your take on culling "unique"; not necessarily original but still developed by you. It does not make you any kind of expert however.

I am very much looking forward to Mr. Ben's book. If nothing else, it will certainly read much better than your own manuscript, and I can expect less (or none at all) of the lazy copy-pasting that I see in your work. Based on that I certainly will support Mr. Ben in his efforts. When you consider all he may know about the sleight, the decision of all culling lovers should be obvious, and I don't think anyone is taking a chance by buying the book.
[/quote]

Wow all this because it wasn't said until now that it was David Ben that was they were talking about.

But if I may add - my stuff is "self published" and is in no way as slick as stuff that is professionally published and packaged. But I feel the content is more important than the box it comes in.

But I have to say I have an interesting in this and the Fulves material because I have been told that the Fulves material has a link to John Scarne. And I have a great interest in the work of John Scarne who I consider an expert - and it seems that he did not publish a lot of his work.

My interest in culling and stacking with culling is to use it and find ways to use it in my work. Over the years I have found that being able to cull when working on the fly as I have - it makes for "less" set up in advance when doing a magic act over and over again.

In other words it is nice to be able to cull needed cards while it looks like your shuffling a selected cards into the deck. So my interesting in culling is not just "how to cull" but how to use it in a performing situation to serve my performing needs.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 09:26AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 08:04, splice wrote:
You on the other hand were bragging about not reading the materials which are available to all. This may make your take on culling "unique"; not necessarily original but still developed by you. It does not make you any kind of expert however.
[/quote]
By the way I have never claimed to be an expert - however I will be glad to give you a full "refund" (plus postage) for the book (Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Shuffle Triumph's) and the DVD (Tested card Work For Card Shark Magicians DVD - 1). Since it seems you are not very happy with it - as I said in my PM to you splice.
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 2, 2009 11:02AM)
Thank you for the offer and much appreciated. However I have already read the book and don't believe it would be ethical to take advantage of a refund just because I don't happen to like its format or contents. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the book. I was interested in your techniques, and that's what I got. I don't believe the editing is up to par but that's not what I paid for (even if I would expect higher standards).
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 11:20AM)
Sorry splice I don't agree - we can't have my ill-informed "self published" manuscript and DVD "dirtying" up your magic library. Please return the book and DVD for a full refund and then I can consider this problem closed.
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 2, 2009 11:48AM)
I have never had anyone try to force me to take a refund.

I have a right to be dissatisified with a product. I also have the right to keep that product if I so choose. Despite its flaws I may find something of value, it may be useful in the future, it may spur other ideas. I paid my money knowing what I probably would get, and that's that. You won't silence me or change my opinion by forcing me to take money or return the products I paid for.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 12:25PM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 12:48, splice wrote:
I have never had anyone try to force me to take a refund.

if I so choose. Despite its flaws I may find something of value, it may be useful in the future, it may spur other ideas. I paid my money knowing what I probably would get, and that's that. You won't silence me or change my opinion by forcing me to take money or return the products I paid for.
[/quote]
Thanks Splice I agree with part of this - I just PMed you and I now consider the matter closed.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 12:32PM)
If I may add to Mickey and Kent Gunn on "experts on riffle culling methods" I wouldn't assume that Jack Pyle (The Punch Deck Pro) or my Dad the late Billy Bishop were not knowledgeable or that they were ill-informed about culling methods.

Jack Pyle was a close friend of Ed Marlo and Ed Marlo wrote a book on block transfer work with the riffle shuffle. And if I may add I have seen some of Jack Pyle's riffle shuffle work. And - that my Dad knew Dai Vernon and sessioned with magicians like Charlie Miller and John Scarne. And I have seen and know most of if not all of my dads riffle shuffle work.

And that brings me to the part that I wanted to talk about in this thread is that work of Karl Fulves and if it is linked in any way to anything that was done by John Scarne.
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 2, 2009 12:40PM)
Glenn does stand behind his product and that is honorable. I hope we can reach a satisfactory agreement. I have no desire to return the manuscript or get my money back, but I wish the editing that I criticised would be looked at and kept in mind for future manuscripts.

For what it is it certainly is a definitive source for triumph shuffle work (stacking and culling).
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 01:04PM)
Thanks splice.

I have always found your comments about what was wrong with this manuscript/book helpful - Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Feb 2, 2009 01:23PM)
Hi Glenn,

We've got to stop meeting like this!

I enjoyed reading your post about dyslexia. I think it took some real courage to talk about that. I know other magicians beside you who were literally rescued by their love of magic.

I've had to sell off my collection of magic books twice in my life. I had four kids to feed and, well, those books just didn't look that important at the time. I'm old, fat and better off now. I love magic books. I don't have a very large collection. I cheat, I actually try to read them all. I'm glad we share a love of magic books. I think I could get by with just a few of my favorites.

I need to calm down and not be so defensive/aggressive in my posts. I've said this before,

"I think Glenn and I would hit it off in person." I hope the evil tenor of my posts have ruined that chance. We differ on almost nothing of any importance. I revere the memory of Jay Marshall. Your dad was a consummate performer. I know both of these things to be the God's honest truth!


I misinterpreted your first post. I read way too much stuff into your writing. I was astonished to think you wouldn't know who David Ben was. I completely assumed you were familiar with at least the Vernon book, because I know you are such a huge fan of Vernon.

There is no reason for you not to publish your works. I did look at them on your site. Your riffle stuff is beyond my capabilities.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

The barley collage nearly killed me though. I can't tell if you do that stuff to be ironic or it is genuine.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 01:43PM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 14:23, kentfgunn wrote:
I misinterpreted your first post. I read way too much stuff into your writing. I was astonished to think you wouldn't know who David Ben was. I completely assumed you were familiar with at least the Vernon book, because I know you are such a huge fan of Vernon.
[/quote]
I know who David Ben is - however I had no idea that "Mr. Ben" was (David) Ben that they were taling about - it could have been another Ben.
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 14:23, kentfgunn wrote:
There is no reason for you not to publish your works.
[/quote]
At this time I can think of a lots and lots and lots of reason's - why I should not publish any more of my work.

Now can we please talk about the Karl Fulves work and if there is a connection to the work of the late John Scarne?
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 2, 2009 02:41PM)
A member on this site just bought a copy of Fulves' Riffle Shuffle Methods from Martinka. That work has what Mr. Fulves believes is the real method John Scarne employed. I haven't been able to get my hands on it myself. I believe there are references to that work in the Riffle Shuffle Technique series, perhaps.
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Feb 2, 2009 02:51PM)
Scarne used the "Milk Build" with an overhand shuffle for stacking, he had an impressive reputation from doing gambling exposes during the war years, and from his books for the public, and in his later years for doing some insert shots on film for "The Sting," but was not on the skill level of a Marlo or Vernon. I seriously doubt he could deceptively perform more sophisticated methods even if they were attributed to him.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 2, 2009 03:01PM)
I've seen a clip of Scarne doing what I believe is his "Milk Build" and it looks awesome! I've put in a small amount of work on the sleight and it's a tricky sucker in my hands! Maybe another few years and several thousand shuffles and I'll have a good one!
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Feb 2, 2009 03:15PM)
I didn't mean to give the impression Scarne wasn't skillful, he was, but the overhand shuffle methods are not as technically demanding as the riffle shuffle systems.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 2, 2009 03:51PM)
I didn't read it that way either! I was simply making my observation on the sleight you mentioned!

Cheers,

Mick
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 2, 2009 05:21PM)
I agree splice - I have also heard that there is some mention of John Scarne and his riffle shuffle work in some of the Fulves published material however I have not been able to track it down. From what I have heard - and I might add that this is hearsay - Fulves knew Scarne - and might have learned or adapted or was inspired in some way by John Scarne's riffle shuffle work.

Yes I agree ladirector - Scarne also was great with the jog shuffle culls and stacking methods of his day that were used more often in the 60's and earlier - because the protocol of many gambling places were very different than they are today.

In a conversation about John Scarne I had last year with Jimmy "Cards" Molinari we talked about how John Scarne was the person that "changed" a lot of the protocol in the way that a lot of games were being played in Las Vegas. From what we talked about the use of several decks in Blackjack. Things like that are talked about in the Scarne book "The Odds against me".

However - Just because there is no video of Scarne or published work that Scarne published doing riffle shuffle work (that we have found so far) - in my opinion that is not a good reason to think that Scarne couldn't do it.

I am of the opinion that he could just from what my Dad has told me about his card work. And look at that in the same way as I look at Jack Pyle's riffle shuffle work - and my Dads riffle shuffle work - just because they were not known for it - or never published anything on it (keeping in mind the old school magicians were very secret with their secrets in those days) that doesn't mean that they could not do the work - or at least know about the work.

Magicians in those days did not share secrets as openly as they do today. And riffle shuffle work - stacking and culling was "very" hush - hush card work back then - as it still is today.

And thanks for your input splice on the Scarne - Fulves mystery.

I hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Feb 2, 2009 05:52PM)
I only met Scarne once, in the 60's, in a session with Vernon and other experts of the day. I was a young man at the time as was my friend, both of us at the time working on the Marlo Riffle Shuffle Systems. My friend, sadly now deceased, practiced hundreds of hours, and was expert at much of this material, (also did a credible center deal and other expert stuff) and fooled and tipped some Marlo stuff to Scarne. That's the reason for my opinion.

I agree, however, that Scarne was very talented at the methods of his day, which can be particularly decpetive since they appear casual and don't look as studied and meticulous as a lot of the riffle work. Also think you are right that modern day games don't allow these casual, impromptu looking, shuffles and cuts due to cousel from men like Scarne.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 2, 2009 06:26PM)
You sessioned with those guys???????? *Picture me bowing and stating I'M NOT WORTHY*
VERY cool!

Mick
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Feb 2, 2009 06:36PM)
In those pre-Henning days there weren't many young guys into cards, most were more into sex, drugs, rock. I could do some difficult stuff and Vernon was open to sharing with those who had a passion, plus I rode in on the coattails of my friend who was masterful and did the heavy lifting. Perhaps "sessioning" is a bit over the top. I did more watching than contributing, but have some vivid memories of the old days.
Message: Posted by: Terry Veckey (Feb 2, 2009 06:36PM)
Mr.Bishdamagish. Please execute the use of the title "EXPERT" more carefully.
As it is my title and has been for forty years(Harrumph!).

Also, you might recommend me to some of these gentleman and or ladies who are perfect to join a club I founded about 8 years ago for folks of their talent and ilk. (The fee is quite reasonable. Cheque or money order.) The group is called the "Society of Amateur Prestidigitators and Seers". It is perfect for the serious cardician. For only fifty U.S. dollars not only will they become members but I will include 2 "special" decks of cards.They are called "The Ultra-Mental Deck" and the incredible "Don Alan Invisible Deck". I swear with these two decks alone many members of the "Society of Amateur Prestidigitators and Seers" have become Professional Magicians.
Message: Posted by: Terry Veckey (Feb 2, 2009 07:18PM)
Drat, I missed the window to edit my last post to keep it more on thread.
I wanted to add that Ottokar Fischer had a very interesting take on the false suffle. Check page 110 in his book "Illustrated Magic"- MacMillan Co., 1949
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Feb 2, 2009 07:47PM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 19:36, ladirector wrote:
In those pre-Henning days there weren't many young guys into cards, most were more into sex, drugs, rock. I could do some difficult stuff and Vernon was open to sharing with those who had a passion, plus I rode in on the coattails of my friend who was masterful and did the heavy lifting. Perhaps "sessioning" is a bit over the top. I did more watching than contributing, but have some vivid memories of the old days.
[/quote]

I unfortunately was one of those young guys and left my cards in the box for many many years! Just getting to sit in with the masters of the day had to have been an incredible experience in itself! I reckon if you ever even shuffled the cards in front of Vernon and he didn't suggest stamp collecting that would be a hellava compliment! LOL

I'm still more for watching and listening when in the midst of the big boys!

Mick
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 3, 2009 08:23AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 18:52, ladirector wrote:
I only met Scarne once, in the 60's, in a session with Vernon and other experts of the day. I was a young man at the time as was my friend, both of us at the time working on the Marlo Riffle Shuffle Systems. My friend, sadly now deceased, practiced hundreds of hours, and was expert at much of this material, (also did a credible center deal and other expert stuff) and fooled and tipped some Marlo stuff to Scarne. That's the reason for my opinion.

I agree, however, that Scarne was very talented at the methods of his day, which can be particularly decpetive since they appear casual and don't look as studied and meticulous as a lot of the riffle work. Also think you are right that modern day games don't allow these casual, impromptu looking, shuffles and cuts due to cousel from men like Scarne.
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Great post ladirector - thanks for your imput to this thread.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 3, 2009 08:27AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 19:36, veckmagic wrote:
Mr.Bishdamagish. Please execute the use of the title "EXPERT" more carefully.
As it is my title and has been for forty years(Harrumph!).

Also, you might recommend me to some of these gentleman and or ladies who are perfect to join a club I founded about 8 years ago for folks of their talent and ilk. (The fee is quite reasonable. Cheque or money order.) The group is called the "Society of Amateur Prestidigitators and Seers". It is perfect for the serious cardician. For only fifty U.S. dollars not only will they become members but I will include 2 "special" decks of cards.They are called "The Ultra-Mental Deck" and the incredible "Don Alan Invisible Deck". I swear with these two decks alone many members of the "Society of Amateur Prestidigitators and Seers" have become Professional Magicians.
[/quote]

Hey - I think itís Terry Vecky - How have you been Terry? - Who is one of the greatest most entertaining close up magicians that I have had the privilege of seeing work many times.
Message: Posted by: Terry Veckey (Feb 3, 2009 03:36PM)
[/quote]
Hey - I think itís Terry Vecky - How have you been Terry? - Who is one of the greatest most entertaining close up magicians that I have had the privilege of seeing work many times.
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Glenn:
You thunk correctly, almost. It's Terry Veckey after nearly 30 years of telling you there are two E's in Veckey... That kid Malon drops my second E also.

Can't knock your discerning taste in magic though.
To return the compliments. I somehow get the feeling that some folks have no idea just how GOOD you are. Not to mention your knowledge base.
Check your P.M.


More on track, looking over most of this thread, reminded me of something the Professor said at Magic Inc. "Charlie Miller's picture of hell was a bunch of guys in a small room, sitting on barrels, practising Faro Shuffles."
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 3, 2009 10:40PM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-03 16:36, veckmagic wrote:
Glenn:
You thunk correctly, almost. It's Terry Veckey after nearly 30 years of telling you there are two E's in Veckey... That kid Malon drops my second E also.

Can't knock your discerning taste in magic though.
To return the compliments. I somehow get the feeling that some folks have no idea just how GOOD you are. Not to mention your knowledge base.
Check your P.M.


More on track, looking over most of this thread, reminded me of something the Professor said at Magic Inc. "Charlie Miller's picture of hell was a bunch of guys in a small room, sitting on barrels, practising Faro Shuffles."
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Sorry old friend - I was never very good at spelling. Most people spell my name wrong and do it with only one N. You never did but others did. I will try to get in touch with you later in the week - we have a lot of catching up to do.
Message: Posted by: Terry Veckey (Feb 4, 2009 02:05AM)
Dear Glunn:
Of course I know it's nn. CALL ME!

Does anyone know if Dave Soloman is around?
He has a pretty interesting shuffle routine in his book "Sessions" It's called One Shuffle Ten Hand poker Stack."

Cheers!:
terry veckey
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 4, 2009 07:12AM)
Last time I saw him was many years ago in the back of Magic Inc. I think it was at an Allan Ackerman lecture - but I could be wrong about when and where. Maybe Jimmy "Cards" Molinari knows - he is a member of this message board too.

And also is great with his jog shuffle stacking and culling and also does some great table shuffle stacking work too.

I would be nice to get the whole Chicago gang together at the same time and talk about the Old Chicago magic days.