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Topic: Question about the invisible deck
Message: Posted by: pfig (Mar 28, 2009 03:52PM)
Hi,
I received this week my first invisible deck. What a great effect!
I like to perform the invisible deck after performing another card trick using a normal deck so there's no heat on this deck.
Since I don't use the joker on the other deck, should I use the joker on the invisible deck?
How do you deal with this?

P. Figueira
Message: Posted by: Vick (Mar 28, 2009 05:55PM)
I've never seen an invisible deck with jokers, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
Up to you but it's probably conductive to flow to have your decks match up (color of backs, joker or not and so on) so you could take the jokers out of your ID


There are many devices or methods for switching the decks


The invisible deck allows room for a creative presentation,
Never been a fan of the presentation that comes with the deck if it's the shuffle the invisible deck
Have seen passing a ball around the spectators, one choosing color, next suit and so on to arrive at the card among others

It's a great effect that can get a great reaction from your audience,
have fun creating your presentation
Message: Posted by: pfig (Mar 28, 2009 06:17PM)
I mean the joker (only one) that is supposed to be on the bottom of the deck (only half of the times) so the deck seems normal.
Message: Posted by: AlienSpaceBat (Mar 28, 2009 08:10PM)
I don't understand what you mean about a joker half the time. Do you mean you are putting it face down on the deck, showing its back ? If so, that seems to defeat the whole point of the invisible deck ...! If you have it face up, I can't see what the point of that would be either !

Am I missing something here ?
Message: Posted by: pfig (Mar 28, 2009 08:27PM)
Sorry, but my English is not perfect. I mean half the time because the other half the joker is in the wrong side (**you know the gaff**) and I have to take it and say 'ops... it's the joker, I forget to remove it' and put it on the other side with its back facing out.
On the other decks I don't use a joker, so this is not good. Should I use the invisible deck without the joker? It's cleaner with the joker because I can casually show both sides of the deck.
I'm sorry if I could not explain myself properly.
Thanks,

P. Figueira
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Mar 28, 2009 09:03PM)
The problem above with the joker is simple. Two different trick decks both produce the same basic effect, that of the randomly selected card being the only card reversed in the deck.

The original was the Brainwave deck. Brainwave does not need the 'extra' joker as the selection appears face up in a face down deck.

The other is the now more popular, because easier to use, Invisible Deck. Most, but not all ID's use an extra joker to provide an extra back if needed...I've think I've made that just obtuse enough that nothing is given away unless you already own the deck.

In almost 40 years of selling Invis Decks I have NEVER sold one, and I've sold thousands, that did not have the Joker. Best,
Message: Posted by: Vick (Mar 28, 2009 09:44PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-28 22:03, Brad Burt wrote:
In almost 40 years of selling Invis Decks I have NEVER sold one, and I've sold thousands, that did not have the Joker. Best,
[/quote]

Wow, I've bought about 8-10 including a large deck (all bikes) and worked at a magic shop and have never seen an ID with the Joker
But I haven't seen 10,000 decks either
Message: Posted by: AlienSpaceBat (Mar 28, 2009 09:56PM)
Well you learn something every day, so they say !

My ID has no joker in it (USPCC factory made, maybe Murphys, can't remember ..)

Ooops I had better remove this upside down joker that I've got on the face of my deck - you know the deck I JUST TOLD YOU has ONE reversed card on it BECAUSE that's THE WHOLE POINT OF THE EFFECT - seems problematical to me !! :)

I can sort of see the point now, but it seems to me that you had better leave one joker in the case, which could easily be spotted, given how the cards need to be removed, or you're going to have to place or remove one after getting the deck from the box - now getting into performing sleights on a self-working trick !! ;)
Message: Posted by: pfig (Mar 28, 2009 09:58PM)
This is my first ID deck and it comes with the joker. I bought it from magicbox.

P. Figueira
Message: Posted by: AlienSpaceBat (Mar 28, 2009 10:10PM)
I didn't know that IDs came with jokers - I've never seen one with a joker before.

I can see the obvious benefit of having a card back showing on the bottom - it would be a good convincer to put the deck on the table showing the back before picking it back up and turning it 'face-up'. A couple of times when I've shown the face up cards in a spread and pushed the reversed card out I've been asked to show the bottoms of ALL the cards. That was my error in having the spread too horizontal, I think, I should have had it pointing to the floor.

[ed spelling]
Message: Posted by: cardboardninjas (Mar 29, 2009 01:03AM)
I think my ID came with jokers but I took them out. Every time I use this the trick gets great reactions. No one's ever asked to see the other side of the cards.
Message: Posted by: ryan8406 (Mar 29, 2009 02:55AM)
You may want to pick up a copy of Jay Sankey's Invisible dvd. It addresses the joker issue and gives you some different tricks to do with the deck. Ben Salinas also has a dvd out called the invisible deck. I thought both were well worth the price.
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Mar 29, 2009 04:22PM)
Throw the Jokers away. That's what I did.

Jim
Message: Posted by: pfig (Mar 29, 2009 06:56PM)
Thanks for your help. I will remove the joker from the ID.
Message: Posted by: MagikDavid (Mar 30, 2009 02:16AM)
Okay, in my opinion the Joker is important. Here's why. Without the Joker you must know what the spectator's card is BEFORE pulling the cards out of the box. I believe that the effect is stronger if you make the box visible... pull the cards out... and (while holding the cards in your hand) THEN ask what their card is. With no Joker, you may have to hold the box with the flap down to pull out the cards. This would look suspicious to spectator (... wonder why he's holding the box upside down to remove the cards.)

As far as the issue of the Joker being reversed... it depends on your performance. When I bring my "invisble" deck out of my pocket, I mimick opening the box... pull the cards out... and hand a spectator the "invisible" box and ask him to hold it... (at this point they're playing along) I then ask them, "Please don't crush the box, okay?"... I then hand him or another spec. the "invisible" Joker, and say, "Would you mind holding this Joker?" This is a good way to involve others. Now I mimmick overhand shuffle (this usually gets some snickers/chuckles)... I then say, "You think I look stupid? You guys are holding the box and Joker." (this usually gets a laugh because they are standing there pretending to hold the box and Joker.) I then fan the cards... spec chooses one... then I square the cards and ask the spec for the Joker, placing it on the cards... then the box, which I mimmick putting the cards back in, then into pocket. Now, when I pull the (visible)card box out of my pocket, I open it with the Joker face down and hand box to the same spec and ask him to hold it again. Then, with the cards fully exposed in my hand, I ask him to reveal the card he placed upside down. If I need to spread the cards that are face up under the Joker, I simply hand it to the same spec, asking him to hold the Joker again... If I need to spread the other side, I don't mention the Joker... I just flip the cards over and spread. Since the spec is now curious to see if his card is reversed, he never thinks about the Joker. Besides, seeing the 'back' of the cards before you flip them, re-enforces the idea that this is a regular deck.

Note: Having performed this hundreds of times, I've never had someone say, "Hey... can I hold the Joker again?" If that should happen (after you've flipped the cards over), just pull the Joker off the bottom and hand it to him.

Again, it depends on your presentation. The above is just my opinion, based on how I perform. Just food for thought.
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Mar 30, 2009 09:03AM)
I can't do this because I don't have any Jokers. I haven't performed this 100 times, but I have done it many, many times over the past few years. 75% of the time, the card is an odd card and I open the box and pull out the deck. The other 25% of the time, I open the box upside down and take out the cards. Nobody has ever said anything about the deck being upside down. But yes, I do have to know the card before the cards are in their final right-side-up or down position.

Jim
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (Mar 30, 2009 03:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-30 03:16, MagikDavid wrote:
With no Joker, you may have to hold the box with the flap down to pull out the cards. This would look suspicious to spectator (... wonder why he's holding the box upside down to remove the cards.)
[/quote]
I bet you'd be hard pressed to find anybody on The Magic Café who's ever had to deal with a person wondering about the way the cards are removed from the box.
Message: Posted by: MagikDavid (Mar 30, 2009 09:39PM)
Jim,
In my post, I didn't say that someone would 'say' anything about the box being upside down. My hope is to eliminate the possibility that they will 'wonder' why I would open the box upside down. As you know, when the lay person sees an impossible feat of magic, human nature causes them to try to backward-engineer what they've just seen. During this thought process, if they recall that you opened the box in an odd way, they might conclude that it had something to do with the secret. (In fact, it does!) Using the Joker allows me to: 1) Freely remove the cards in a normal way. 2) Ask them to reveal their card after the cards have been removed from the box. Another advantage is... if you need to hand the Joker for someone to hold... after the trick is over, when you take the joker back, you can place it on the bottom of the face-up cards, square them... and place them back in the box with the back of the joker facing them. This helps with the visual implication that the cards DO have backs (instead of the possibility that you may 'flash' the underside face-up cards.)

Old Man, (...bet you're not as old as me)
One of the reasons I started using the Joker, is that back in the 70's, I actually did have someone say, "How come you held the box like that when you pulled out the cards?" I said, "I always pull the cards out like that." From then on, I made sure the rest of my show I repeated the upside-down removal. But I agree... probably no one else in the world has ever had that happen.

I'm not saying that my way is the right way... I've just tried to give a compelling reason why using the Joker can (in my opinion,) enhance and strengthen the effect. I certainly intend no disrespect for any of you who chooses not to use the Joker. Hopefully, my ideas will be taken for what they are meant to be... food for thought.

Dave
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Mar 31, 2009 08:47AM)
Dave:

Point well taken - I'm probably older than you and the Old Man!

Jim
Message: Posted by: eddie2m (Sep 27, 2009 12:35PM)
I always use a Joker in my I.D. This way you can always flash the bottom
of the deck when opening one way & mention the Joker when opening the deck
the other way & swing it to the bottom of deck to avoid flashing!
Eddie