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Topic: The decay of the modern vocabulary.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 6, 2009 02:17PM)
How many of you have ever been to a Shakespeare play? Read one?
Now, how many have read Plato's Republic?
Now, how many of you have seen "Dude, Where's my Car?"
Do you already understand what I am getting at?
Look at Mercutio's speeches in shakespeare. The wordplay of Hamlet.
Look at the verbal puzzles laid out in the Republic.
People used to use words to paint incredible images. They indulged in games of puns, double meanings, double entendres, tried to trip each other up with words, dig?
Nowadays we have to have two multi-purpose words to make up 90% of our dialogue, "Dude," and "F". I don't know if it's the fast pace of our society, or sheer laziness.
All I can say is: "F, Dude."
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (May 6, 2009 02:33PM)
Dude **** you
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 6, 2009 02:36PM)
I must have missed the boat with the bard.. I like your sig. anybody want a peanut?
Message: Posted by: Cliffg37 (May 6, 2009 02:54PM)
How many people today have said the word
uhmunuh? (uh-muh-nuh)

No it is not a real word
Yes, people say it all the time.
I made an effort years ago to stop saying it.
My wife uses it a lot.
I am sorry to hear my daughter say it to.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 6, 2009 03:00PM)
Swyve you, buddy.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Ridgeway (May 6, 2009 03:29PM)
How ironic is it that you ended one sentence with a preposition, have a fragmented sentence, didn't capitalize Shakespeare and put a comma after society?...LOL

However...yes I see what you are saying every single day and texting while extremely useful, unfortunately creates bad vocabulary habits.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: gsidhe (May 6, 2009 03:31PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 15:17, critter wrote:
How many of you have ever been to a Shakespeare play? Read one?
Now, how many have read Plato's Republic?
Now, how many of you have seen "Dude, Where's my Car?"
Do you already understand what I am getting at?
Look at Mercutio's speeches in shakespeare. The wordplay of Hamlet.
Look at the verbal puzzles laid out in the Republic.
People used to use words to paint incredible images. They indulged in games of puns, double meanings, double entendres, tried to trip each other up with words, dig?
Nowadays we have to have two multi-purpose words to make up 90% of our dialogue, "Dude," and "F". I don't know if it's the fast pace of our society, or sheer laziness.
All I can say is: "F, Dude."
[/quote]
I have seen almost all of Shakespeare's plays done live. Performed in more than a handful and directed as well.
I have read everything written by Shakespeare (That was published anyway)
Most of it more than once.
I spent a full year just studying Hamlet.
I've even done some pre-Shakespeare plays (The Revengers Tragedy (Alternately known as the Tragedy of Blood)is amazing but the language is even more difficult)
I have not read Plato's republic, but have read Homer's Iliad and the Odyssey. For a while I even had most of Beowulf memorized.
I spend more time in museums of art, science and history than at the movies.
I have not managed to sit through Dude, Where's my Car? even once.
I don't use the F word because I find it lacks finesse. I use the word Dude only when the comic timing seems right.
And I am a sideshow performer.
I like the smart stuff.
Gwyd
Message: Posted by: Payne (May 6, 2009 03:36PM)
Even people in Shakespeare's day didn't speak as flowery as the bard's characters did onstage.

It would be like wanting everyone in real life today to talk as if they were in a David Mammet play.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 6, 2009 03:49PM)
Payne beat me to it but to me it is like asking people why they don't break out in song and dance like in West Side Story in 200 years.

What a crazy concept.

While the plays were amazing and he was a fantastic writer, they were a mere snapshot of the time. One place on the planet! Come on are we to be frozen in that time period and all judged by it? Please god no.

Do you think everyone walked about talking in that fashion?

This sort of thinking is why everyone at a Ren fair speaks with an English accent!
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (May 6, 2009 04:09PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 15:54, Cliffg37 wrote:
How many people today have said the word
uhmunuh? (uh-muh-nuh)

No it is not a real word
Yes, people say it all the time.
I made an effort years ago to stop saying it.
My wife uses it a lot.
I am sorry to hear my daughter say it to.
[/quote]

Similar: "Ahmo" (pronounced ah-mo) Usually denotes a stronger emotion, where as "Uhmunuh open a can of whoopa$$ on you, becomes, "Ahmo kick yo butt!"

Also heard: "Gibm", as in, "Gibm a nice round of applause." (Obvious derivative of "gimmee".)

Famous here in the south: "ustacould" (pronounced us-ta-could), as in, "I can't party so much anymore, but I ustacould."

Like, um, yeah, cool...
Message: Posted by: Poveglia (May 6, 2009 04:12PM)
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (May 6, 2009 04:24PM)
We are way beyond 1984, but I think Newspeak is creeping in more each year.

We use fewer and fewer words, each carrying a greater load of communication, hence greater possibility of misunderstanding.

Eventually, one word will mean everything, and communication will be at a standstill. It's a government plot...
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (May 6, 2009 04:37PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 17:09, Michael Baker wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 15:54, Cliffg37 wrote:
How many people today have said the word
uhmunuh? (uh-muh-nuh)

No it is not a real word
Yes, people say it all the time.
I made an effort years ago to stop saying it.
My wife uses it a lot.
I am sorry to hear my daughter say it to.
[/quote]

Similar: "Ahmo" (pronounced ah-mo) Usually denotes a stronger emotion, where as "Uhmunuh open a can of whoopa$$ on you, becomes, "Ahmo kick yo butt!"

Also heard: "Gibm", as in, "Gibm a nice round of applause." (Obvious derivative of "gimmee".)

Famous here in the south: "ustacould" (pronounced us-ta-could), as in, "I can't party so much anymore, but I ustacould."

Like, um, yeah, cool...
[/quote]


Or "let's gweet" for "let's go eat."

But yes, I agree the American vocabulary is in a deplorable state. But perhaps I can alleviate that a bit with my new web site.

It's my small contribution, lilliputian, perhaps in the whole grand scheme of things, but at least I'm taking a pro-active stance.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 6, 2009 04:51PM)
That's because I also like Mark Twain :)

[quote]
On 2009-05-06 16:29, Living Illusions wrote:
How ironic is it that you ended one sentence with a preposition, have a fragmented sentence, didn't capitalize Shakespeare and put a comma after society?...LOL

However...yes I see what you are saying every single day and texting while extremely useful, unfortunately creates bad vocabulary habits.

Kevin
[/quote]



Now, this isn't to say that the F word and even "Dude" can't be used creatively.
George Carlin was the master of brilliant cussing.
What set me off on my little tantrum was that I was down by the trails behind my school yesterday and these dudes from my class were smoking left handed cigarettes while they were studying Algebra. This was kind of an interesting experiment in itself. But then they had the F word every other word, "Dude, you gotta' f'n factor the f'n polynomial!" At this point it was still funny.
When it got to me was that today they were using the same language behind me in class. Every time my teacher would say something they would say "F this B! I don't know what the F she's saying!"
Ticked me off. Anyway, when I get mad I get introspective. Then I rant.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 6, 2009 05:29PM)
In the course of a conversation with my wife last night she said, "heretofore".

How sad that too few people these days would even know that it's a word, fewer still would know what it means, and fewer still would have it as part of their active vocabulary.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (May 6, 2009 05:38PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 18:29, S2000magician wrote:
In the course of a conversation with my wife last night she said, "heretofore".

[/quote]

Was this the question you asked her, "How long will you be staying at your friend's house?" :rotf:

Greg
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (May 6, 2009 05:39PM)
Thanks for the tip! I'll include that one as a word of the day on my site! (Would you like a credited mention?)
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (May 6, 2009 07:00PM)
"Jeet yet?"

"Naw, Jew?"

"Naw, yawnt to?"

"Ahight."
Message: Posted by: thorndyke (May 6, 2009 07:32PM)
I do not like the works of Shakespeare.
I was out of school before I found out he had written comedic material.
School teachers can kill a love of flowery writing.
I like Charles Dickens works now, took two decades to get there.
I love slang, euphemisms and any unique twist of a word that makes some banter a delight.
Message: Posted by: rossmacrae (May 6, 2009 07:53PM)
Wha? Somebuddy say sumthin'? Wazzup?
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 6, 2009 07:57PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 18:38, Greg Arce wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 18:29, S2000magician wrote:
In the course of a conversation with my wife last night she said, "heretofore".

[/quote]

Was this the question you asked her, "How long will you be staying at your friend's house?" :rotf:

Greg
[/quote]

It was actually, "How long have you been staying at your friend's house?"
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 6, 2009 08:19PM)
We're a far more visually oriented society than anything conceivable back when Shakespeare was writing his pleasant afternoon diversions.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 6, 2009 08:24PM)
Critter, what is a left handed cigarette??
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (May 6, 2009 08:36PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 21:24, kcg5 wrote:
Critter, what is a left handed cigarette??
[/quote]

home-rolled wacky-backy
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 6, 2009 09:22PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 17:37, daffydoug wrote:
Or "let's gweet" for "let's go eat."
[/quote]

You use two words for "squeet"? People used to use THREE words?!
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 6, 2009 09:43PM)
The English language of today is in ferment, as it was in the Elizabethan era. The word play, puns, internal rhyming and rhythm of today's best slam poetry are quite wonderful.

There were a lot of crummy writers in Shakespeare's day too.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 7, 2009 01:44AM)
Thanks Michael, ive never heard that.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 7, 2009 02:27AM)
I ate Shakespeare, so some of him is in me.

But I've been playing around with Plato since I was a boy.

Still, I can't think of a single pun in the Republic. Verbal puzzles? Not sure about that either. I'm sure they're all there, but my Greek is just too weak. It takes me about an hour to read a single page. I can't really call it reading, actually. It's more like "deciphering".

So either Critter's Greek is MUCH better than mine, or he's been smoking some of those left-handed cigarettes.

And Jonathan, there is indeed a lot of afternoon delight in A Midsummer Night's Dream.

(And if I sound defensive, it's because I have an incredibly foul mouth, as those who know me from other forums can confirm. That side of me just doesn't get fully expressed here at the Café, for some reason.)
Message: Posted by: mvmagic (May 7, 2009 05:05AM)
Oh what a joy this is:

Yes, I have been to several Shakespeare plays. Have read several as well.

I have read Plato's Republic.

And I have NOT seen "Dude, where's my car?"

(But I have seen a ton of films just as intellectually challenging as "Dude" and enjoyed many of them so that proves nothing)
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 7, 2009 05:20AM)
I don't even know what "Dude, where's my car?" is.

Does that make me illiterate?
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 7, 2009 08:22AM)
I think there are at least two interesting but separable questions here.

1. Is contemporary English in a state of decay, however this is defined?
2. Are contemporary English speakers aware of or do they value their intellectual inheritance?

And these questions, however they are answered, can be followed with

3. Does it matter?

And these are great questions.

John
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 7, 2009 08:30AM)
Does it matter John, and to whom?
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 7, 2009 10:29AM)
Sure, I'll take that sub-sub-question.
Message: Posted by: airship (May 7, 2009 10:49AM)
"The short words are best, and the old words are the best of all." -Winston Churchill
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 7, 2009 10:53AM)
Dilettante is my favorite word, in its negative connotation. It just rolls of the tongue.
Message: Posted by: airship (May 7, 2009 10:58AM)
The Norman invasion gave us some wonderful words. It's great to speak a language where you can use the short, old Anglon-Saxon words for conversation and swearing, then break out the fancy French terms to appear elegant and well-educated.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 7, 2009 12:38PM)
The kind they smoke in Amsterdam. A joint. Truthfully, I think they were using a pipe. I just like the term. My first Bio teacher used it all the time.

I have another quandary, how about the clever use of slang?
I believe it exists. I enjoy Southern expressions like "Sweatin' like a *** in church."
I also believe that Urban street slang is often used quite brilliantly in the more flowing styles of hip hop.
Now, Eminem might not talk real good English like what I does, but I think he's got a good verbal style.
As far as Shakespearian writings, I was using it as an idealised example. I know people didn't talk exactly like that but they still done talked better than what we does now. They ain't had no TV to kill theys attention spans with.


[quote]
On 2009-05-06 21:24, kcg5 wrote:
Critter, what is a left handed cigarette??
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: critter (May 7, 2009 12:40PM)
That would make sense if it had anything to do with what I am talking about. I am not talking about slang versus proper, I am talking about lazy versus eloquent.
Entirely different.
I like slang.

[quote]
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: hou_dini (May 7, 2009 12:49PM)
Language is a malleable and living thing which is constantly in flux and evolving. Shakespeare would not comprehend English as it is spoken today. It does not necessarily decay but continually change.
I love people who constantly seek to apply the rules set forth for the "King's" English to its American counterpart.
The goal of language is to communicate. If you comprehend what is being spoken, then language has accomplished its purpose.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 7, 2009 01:11PM)
Critter, I don't want to push the point, but I'm still waiting for your list of puns and verbal puzzles in Plato's Republic.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 7, 2009 01:36PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 14:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
Critter, I don't want to push the point, but I'm still waiting for your list of puns and verbal puzzles in Plato's Republic.
[/quote]

I hope you are seated with a drink as it may be some time in comming.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 7, 2009 01:59PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 06:05, mvmagic wrote:

I have NOT seen "Dude, where's my car?"

(But I have seen a ton of films just as intellectually challenging as "Dude" and enjoyed many of them so that proves nothing)
[/quote]


This brought to mind one of my favorite quotations, from a philosophy professor (amusingly enough): "I don't understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you."
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 7, 2009 02:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.
[/quote]

Strongly disagree, and I strongly suspect that if the filmmaker's 5 year old son said, "Me and Jimmy played football," he would correct him.

Language evolves with new concepts, and it reflects new realities, but it also devolves. Misspellings and improper uses become commonplace out of ignorance, and they become recognized and accepted. What is this but decay?
Message: Posted by: critter (May 7, 2009 02:39PM)
Word.

[quote]
On 2009-05-07 15:05, LobowolfXXX wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.
[/quote]

Strongly disagree, and I strongly suspect that if the filmmaker's 5 year old son said, "Me and Jimmy played football," he would correct him.

Language evolves with new concepts, and it reflects new realities, but it also devolves. Misspellings and improper uses become commonplace out of ignorance, and they become recognized and accepted. What is this but decay?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: critter (May 7, 2009 02:44PM)
Yeah, I have no intention of sitting down and doing that.
For one thing, I didn't say the Republic had puns, I said people used to use puns.
The Republic was simply cited as an example of linguistic creativity.
The protaganist uses quite a few liguistic "mazes" to trip up those he is debating with. That's a common trick in the Socratic method. I don't have the time or inclination to list them all. Mostly because I'm not debating anything, just thinking about it.
I don't even actually agree with much in the Republic, I just like how the protaganist messes with people. That is to say, with style.

[quote]
On 2009-05-07 14:36, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 14:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
Critter, I don't want to push the point, but I'm still waiting for your list of puns and verbal puzzles in Plato's Republic.
[/quote]

I hope you are seated with a drink as it may be some time in comming.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (May 7, 2009 03:05PM)
Why, oh why, aren't people as intellectual as I? Why, when I announce my genius, do people not fall all over themselves to agree with me?
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 7, 2009 04:04PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 15:44, critter wrote:
I don't even actually agree with much in the Republic....
[/quote]

I would be fascinated to hear what you disagree with.

If you were one of my students, I would ask you the same question in class. And you would say....
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (May 7, 2009 05:03PM)
As a tech writer, I believe in word economy.

Why waste four letters writing, "utilize," when you can write, "use?"
Message: Posted by: cardone (May 7, 2009 09:06PM)
I have been called a madician about 100 times ...anyone else ?
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (May 7, 2009 10:07PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 22:06, cardone wrote:
I have been called a madician about 100 times ...anyone else ?
[/quote]

No...just MAD.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 8, 2009 02:59PM)
Most of it. One thing I really didn't like was the part about the music. I like all kinds of music. It inspires me, entertains me, even just kills time. If all music had to fit a specific framework it would be like listening to the same three Taylor Swift songs over and over for the rest of your life. I, for one, would go insane.
Most of the time that I was reading "Republic," I was pretty ticked off. I liked that about it though. It had the power to tick me off.
That's sidetracking though.



[quote]
On 2009-05-07 17:04, stoneunhinged wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 15:44, critter wrote:
I don't even actually agree with much in the Republic....
[/quote]

I would be fascinated to hear what you disagree with.

If you were one of my students, I would ask you the same question in class. And you would say....
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: critter (May 8, 2009 03:00PM)
I think language is a toy and should be played with. There!
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (May 8, 2009 03:37PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-08 16:00, critter wrote:
I think language is a toy and should be played with. There!
[/quote]

The library is filled with books, both very new and very old, that meet this requirement. What's the problem?
Message: Posted by: critter (May 8, 2009 04:56PM)
I've already stated that this isn't a debate.

[quote]
On 2009-05-08 16:37, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-08 16:00, critter wrote:
I think language is a toy and should be played with. There!
[/quote]

The library is filled with books, both very new and very old, that meet this requirement. What's the problem?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (May 8, 2009 05:26PM)
Well, what sort of responses were you hoping to elicit from the original rant?
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 8, 2009 05:29PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-07 15:05, LobowolfXXX wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.
[/quote]

Strongly disagree, and I strongly suspect that if the filmmaker's 5 year old son said, "Me and Jimmy played football," he would correct him.

Language evolves with new concepts, and it reflects new realities, but it also devolves. Misspellings and improper uses become commonplace out of ignorance, and they become recognized and accepted. What is this but decay?
[/quote]

Sometimes, evolution.

Not everybody should be expected to read and write as Chaucer did.

And though it irks me no end, I realize that eventually the Internet, and texting especially, are going to affect the spellings of some common words pretty soon. Even among "educated" people.

English is different from French. There's no official Academy dictating what's permissible.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 8, 2009 07:34PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-08 15:59, critter wrote:
It had the power to tick me off.
That's sidetracking though. [/quote]

Did it occur to you that Socrates was trying to tick you off? And if so, how is it sidetracking?

Sometimes I hate Internet forums. I'd really like to have a beer with you at this point.

Talking about verbal puzzles and stuff made me think you had never actually read the book. Saying you were ticked off convinces me you indeed did read it. And I feel sorry for you if your teacher was so poor that you didn't understand that getting "ticked off" is part of what made Socrates one of the greatest teachers in human history.

My suggestion: forget everything your teacher told you about the book, and read it again. And the next time, treat Socrates as if HE were your teacher instead of the poor soul who lectured you on the book. Doubt him. Hate him. Get irritated by him.

The Republic may be the single greatest book ever written by a human being. It deserves a second reading.

In fact, I think I'll read it again for the 200th time. Your post has inspired me.

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 8, 2009 07:44PM)
Try Peter Watt's Blindsight or Neal Stephenson's Anathema if you like the stir of echos. ;)
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 8, 2009 08:00PM)
Or "Stir of Echoes," starring Kevin Bacon.
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (May 8, 2009 08:01PM)
Do you say appear when you mean produce ?
Do you say disappear when you mean vanish?
STOP IT !
Message: Posted by: Brian Proctor (May 9, 2009 12:07AM)
What I hate, is the horrible use of the word LIKE. My wife, and just about every other living female in this country over use it!

"Like OMG! Like did you see like the way he like did that? Like that was totally like crazy!"
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (May 9, 2009 09:52AM)
I think we ALL are tired of that one!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 9, 2009 10:12AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-08 21:00, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Or "Stir of Echoes," starring Kevin Bacon.
[/quote]

If this turns into the Kevin Bacon game, I am leaving the thread LOL.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 9, 2009 10:54AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-09 11:12, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-08 21:00, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Or "Stir of Echoes," starring Kevin Bacon.
[/quote]

If this turns into the Kevin Bacon game, I am leaving the thread LOL.
[/quote]

...says Danny Doyle, no relation to French Connection character Popeye Doyle, portrayed by Gene Hackman, who was in...
Message: Posted by: critter (May 9, 2009 12:02PM)
Oh, I do understand that notion. That's why I said I liked the book. I liked that it ticked me off. I respect your recognition of that as well.

[quote]
On 2009-05-08 20:34, stoneunhinged wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-05-08 15:59, critter wrote:
It had the power to tick me off.
That's sidetracking though. [/quote]

Did it occur to you that Socrates was trying to tick you off? And if so, how is it sidetracking?


Talking about verbal puzzles and stuff made me think you had never actually read the book. Saying you were ticked off convinces me you indeed did read it. And I feel sorry for you if your teacher was so poor that you didn't understand that getting "ticked off" is part of what made Socrates one of the greatest teachers in human history.

Thanks!
[/quote]


I used to say like or uh when I was trying to form a coherent sentence. I didn't like doing it, but it was a space filler. Maybe the silence is better.

[quote]
On 2009-05-09 01:07, Brian Proctor wrote:
What I hate, is the horrible use of the word LIKE. My wife, and just about every other living female in this country over use it!

"Like OMG! Like did you see like the way he like did that? Like that was totally like crazy!"
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 9, 2009 03:15PM)
How many books did you read last month?
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (May 9, 2009 04:20PM)
4
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 9, 2009 04:22PM)
Okay, now let's try books which are not from the magic shop or job related.

The next question would be - do you look up the unfamiliar words/terms as you come across them?

The theme here is - if folks aren't reading and don't go exploring culture(s) they have no need of large vocabularies and can get by with "where is" and "how much" and some social noise to feign appreciation of ritual activities.
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (May 9, 2009 04:35PM)
Tha nose note.
Rough translation..Thou knows nothing.
I was born and bred in Nottingham.When I was 8(1971) we moved to a small mining town(Eastwood)on the Nottingham Derby border.I still live there and still have problems with my accent,drifting in and out of the Nottingham and Eastwood accents.
If you wish to have a slice of my English dialect,read any D.H.Lawrence novel or poem.He was born and bred in Eastwood.
If,and when you do,you may then be able to decipher my forum name.
Ray.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 9, 2009 05:07PM)
That mean you speak Pakistani?
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 9, 2009 05:19PM)
LOL!

Love you, Jonathan.
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (May 9, 2009 05:53PM)
Oh Jonathan,my aching sides!
Stone..you're a tossbag!
Ray.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (May 9, 2009 06:14PM)
HA! I had to look up "tossbag".

Ray, have a beer:

:stout:

I'll take two myself.

:stout: :stout:
Message: Posted by: funsway (May 10, 2009 06:46AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-09 17:22, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

The theme here is - if folks aren't reading and don't go exploring culture(s) they have no need of large vocabularies and can get by with "where is" and "how much" and some social noise to feign appreciation of ritual activities.
[/quote]

In 1988 I was part of a "What's new with Computers" forum hosted by Ma Bell. One topic was the newly released "spell Check" feature for WordStar. I offered that if it became popular that many people's vocabularies would shrink to whatever was easy to find in SpellCheck. Everybody thought I was crazy.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 10, 2009 06:42PM)
What does your obvious insanity have to do with others using a spell checker? I mean beyond the indication of paranoid delusions? ;)

One might just as well expect the "add" feature and online dictionaries to help folks learn new words.

So there's really a program online to check your grimiore and planned ritual to ensure it works properly? :D
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 10, 2009 10:35PM)
I was hoping the add feature would improve my math skills.
Message: Posted by: Nosher (May 11, 2009 01:10AM)
Glottochronology - improve your maths skills and learn some formulae to quantify the decay of vocabulary over time...

Fun for the whole family.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 11, 2009 08:41AM)
There's a course at my school that combines Math, English, and a study skills class. Hm, I think I see a potential solution to the problem children in my math class...

I wonder if I am just being a grouchy old man.
Going back to college after being out in a crappy job market for a few years really makes me look at things different.
I remember the stupid way I handled college the first time around. I am lucky to get another chance after all the years of mundanity. I did janitorial jobs, call center jobs, the unspeakable; call center management.
So when I see people do the dumb things I used to, well I just want to grab them and shake them. "Do you realize how bad the labour market is right now?! You need this!!!"
I guess everybody has to learn for themselves though.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 11, 2009 08:53AM)
I am not so sure you can learn about another's "culture" from a computer screen.

In fact I think we are being too attatched to these boxes in the first place. For us to actually have a "society" does not one have to be "social"?
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 11, 2009 11:06AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-09 17:22, Jonathan Townsend wrote:


The next question would be - do you look up the unfamiliar words/terms as you come across them?

[/quote]

One of the great features of the Kindle is that you can highlight and click any word in the books you're reading, and the dictionary definition pops up.
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 11, 2009 01:14PM)
What the *** is a Shakespeare?
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 11, 2009 01:37PM)
I always carry a pocket dictionary. I love words.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 11, 2009 02:05PM)
It's how a Spartan intimidates his enemy, but I digress...

[quote]
On 2009-05-11 14:14, tommy wrote:
What the *** is a Shakespeare?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 11, 2009 03:01PM)
One might ask what many of the recent additions to our oft used words serve to express and in what context.
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (May 11, 2009 04:26PM)
I think a lot of it might stem from the proliferation of our digital culture. Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, text messaging, etc...people tend to use "4" instead of "for," UR, omg, etc...I've heard these acronyms used in daily speech. It's a sign of the times.

Certainly this is decaying from what we're used to, or especially since the times of Shakespeare. Bear in mind though, that in Shakespeare's day, there were only 50,000 or so words in the English language. That may have an affect on things, or it may not.

To answer the original questions, yes, I have read most of Shakespare's plays, appeared in several and memorized many monologues. I have not read the Republic, but I have read Plato's dialogues, and I refuse to see "Dude, Where's my Car."

Our culture makes things easier now, we want instant gratification. I can order pizza with my iPhone, without ever speaking to anyone, and have it waiting for me by the time I get home.

The only thing constant is change. We can never go back to before. And all that.
Message: Posted by: Nosher (May 11, 2009 11:43PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-11 14:14, tommy wrote:
What the *** is a Shakespeare?
[/quote]

I'm not exactly sure, but I know someone who is...

"BUSH: I was in Crawford and I said I was looking for a book to read and Laura said 'you oughta try Camus', I also read three Shakespeares."
Message: Posted by: critter (May 12, 2009 08:46AM)
True dat. I wonder if the ever increasing use of the F word reflects a pandemic of social frustration at the current goings on in the world?
Or maybe I just got up too early.

[quote]
On 2009-05-11 16:01, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
One might ask what many of the recent additions to our oft used words serve to express and in what context.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 12, 2009 02:11PM)
It was a funny movie, at times, the tattoo scene was good.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (May 12, 2009 02:27PM)
I agree. Dude, Where's My Car? is underrated.
Message: Posted by: critter (May 12, 2009 05:22PM)
"Beerfest" blows it out of the water.