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Topic: Vampire killing kit
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 21, 2009 05:29PM)
http://www.geekologie.com/2008/11/old_vampirekilling_kit_sells_f.php
Message: Posted by: Roni (Aug 21, 2009 05:57PM)
There must be a routine here by looking at the stuff and perhaps re creating some of it.
Roni
Message: Posted by: WayneCapps (Aug 21, 2009 06:15PM)
I think this was on the Café last year and someone said it was a fake. A good fake, but still a fake.

I still love it!
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Aug 21, 2009 10:44PM)
Various types of these have been floating around for years, often being auctioned for 2-4K.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 22, 2009 01:59AM)
Not even a good fake. Search vampire killing kit on this forum.
Message: Posted by: ghostgaff (Aug 22, 2009 03:22AM)
And yet people continue to buy them, and they will still be bought as long as there are rich people that will spend money on anything.

Buyer beware. As the saying goes, "A fool and his money are soon to part".
Message: Posted by: MagicMan1957 (Aug 22, 2009 03:55AM)
The kit looks like something that might come from Outlaw Products! :)

[img]http://i31.tinypic.com/t5k5k0.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 22, 2009 08:57AM)
I bet that the artists at Outlaw can do better.
Message: Posted by: KOTAH (Aug 22, 2009 11:34AM)
Let's hope they do !
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 22, 2009 04:14PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 02:59, The Curator wrote:
Not even a good fake. Search vampire killing kit on this forum.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll bite... ;)

How can you tell?
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Aug 22, 2009 06:09PM)
You'll BITE George, oh lord I had now idea you were one.... of them!
Quick where can I buy a kit?

Magically,
Walt
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 22, 2009 06:20PM)
I need new glasses.

When I saw this topic I was really interested in what it could be, all sorts of interesting and bizarre ideas flooded through my mind. I thought it said "Vampire killing kilt"
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 23, 2009 02:00AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 17:14, George Ledo wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 02:59, The Curator wrote:
Not even a good fake. Search vampire killing kit on this forum.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll bite... ;)

How can you tell?
[/quote]

Bottles are from the 1930/40's era at least, pistol is ridiculous, the wooden stake (with crosses) weren't in use, the disposition in the box isn't correct for a XIXth century kit... Lot of mistakes.

This one have 3 silver crosses (a golgotha) engraved on the pistol, the book is a 1819 book with informations like "how to discover a vampire tomb", bottles are embossed and easy to date (as are all the items in the kit), the Blomberg serum is still in one of the bottles (and has been analyzed), there are 2 holy relics with their cardinal seals, protective medals against demons...

[img]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2505/vampirekillingkitwebau7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1239/vampirekillingkitweb1zj7.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: lin (Aug 23, 2009 02:27AM)
Here's quite a collection of kits (also, one confession):

http://deeplyblue.com/bluetea/labels/assemblage.html

grain of salt, anyone?

:D
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 23, 2009 05:47AM)
But "Michael de Winter" is wrong, Nicolas Plomdeur and Ernst Freiherr Von Blomberg did exist. I let my friend Van Helmont tell you you about Blomberg, he made the research; and my other friend Antoine (who's working at the Invalides, the war museum in Paris) to tell you about Plomdeur.
I forgot to mention that there's an autographed photo of Blomberg in the Surnateum collection, and I think he still has a descendance today.

[quote]Ernst Freiherr von Blomberg (°1821 - +1903)
Born in Hamburg, son of Wilhelm Freiherr von Blomberg. He attended the Academisches Gymnasium where he studied Evangelic Theology and subsequently enrolled the University to study Biology. We lose his track due to the moving of the family; he resurfaces in 1856 when he is appointed Lektor at the University (then Fachschule) of Lübeck. He holds the chair of Zoology and, fully within his iron Prussian upbringing, sports a fascination for all things theological. In 1869 he publishes a work called “Die Verwandlung I'm Prinzipus: Thiere, Maenschen und Ihren Gottlosen Vereinen”. Covering topics such as clinical lycanthropy and clinical vampirism, it is considered the first attempt in describing anthrozoology. Later, and unintentionally, he is the first to coin the term Human biology. Today, this term is used on an entirely different basis, but his use had the same roots of research, albeit distorted by religious motives. As Sanitätsrat (an honorary title given to physicians), Freiherr von Blomberg equally held a private medical practice in his estate in Lauenburg from 1889 until 1894. He retired from university two years later. He died in Lübeck in 1903.

In 1914, Springer Berlin/Heidelberg posthumously published his “Ein seltener fall von Hydrocephalus” (A Rare Case of Hydrocephalus) in the ‘Zeitschrift für die gesamte Neurologie und Psychiatrie’. It was his last study to scientifically prove that a physical deformation (in casu Hydrocephalus) was a possible cause of lycanthropy and vampirism.
[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiherr_von_Blomberg
So, Michael de Winter's opinion and confession = lol.

[img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6268/blom04.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2870/blom03.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7342/blom02.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Aug 23, 2009 06:49AM)
That's just brilliant!

I'd sure like to read the whole thing, however, and not just the introduction. Is the whole thing on line somewhere? Or is there more at the Surnateum? OK, I guess this last question I can answer myself. I'm off to do it.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 23, 2009 07:30AM)
Part of it has been published on Wikipedia, but most of the real information is kept in the Surnateum Library. But Van Helmont will probably answer your question here.
Some people like "de Winter" make very stupid claims until they meet people who simply do research.

The team members of the Surnateum do their homework and we have very unusual and interesting theories and studies about subjects like: what's the real origin and secret in the Tarot of Marseille, who's tomb is represented on Nicolas Poussin's painting "les Bergers d'Arcadie", who was Blomberg, when do we have the first use of silver bullets against monsters (witches, werewolves or vampires), what is probably the real cause of the famous vampiric panic in Europe during the early XVIIIth century...
Every bit of information is perfectly documented.
But you have to be a member of the Surnateum to gain access to that level of information.
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 23, 2009 10:57AM)
Hey, Curator, thanks for the feedback on the kit. :)
Message: Posted by: Antoine (Aug 23, 2009 11:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-23 06:47, The Curator wrote:
But "Michael de Winter" is wrong[/quote]

Yes he is…

I could follow Nicolas Plomdeur in Archives in the second part of 19th century

Nicolas Plomdeur was formed in liege. Some years later he emigrated to France to become leader of the Parisian workshop of his father. Amazingly, his workshop was located nearly the office of French policeman Vidocq, on whom I am currently working on… He then installed his son in it, before taking back the headquarters in liege, once his father died. The Kesselhaut firm bought back the two workshops at the end of 19th century.

Archives give us strong informations... Not de Winter...
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 23, 2009 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-21 18:57, Roni wrote:
There must be a routine here by looking at the stuff and perhaps re creating some of it.
Roni
[/quote]

Even a full show (remember Vampire Esp ?).
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 23, 2009 06:08PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 19:09, SpellbinderEntertainment wrote:
You'll BITE George, oh lord I had now idea you were one.... of them!
Quick where can I buy a kit?

Magically,
Walt
[/quote]
Well, after seeing all the above, I'll be happy to make one up for you... if I ever catch up. :) On the other hand, a side order of garlic fries might do it.
Message: Posted by: Van Helmont (Aug 24, 2009 04:02AM)
Who can I be of assistance here?
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Aug 24, 2009 04:38AM)
I was at a gun show a while back and a guy had one of these for sale!
It looked really cool and cost a little over $1000.

I took pictures of it on my cell phone and will try to upload them later.



Ray
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 24, 2009 05:46AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-24 05:02, Van Helmont wrote:
Who can I be of assistance here?
[/quote]

Yop, give us a little feedback about your search of Blomberg, but keep some Surnateum info secret. ;)
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Aug 24, 2009 11:07AM)
George yes! There should also be a high-tech 21st century version of this….
with Garlic Fries and Ginsu Steak Knives included perhaps!
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 24, 2009 01:04PM)
There is the 'AUTHENTIC'...and there is the Movie Prop version. The Authentic may need to be in a serious museum collection. The Movie Prop version is quite suitable for a Magic Act and need not be belittled. It's a theatrical PROP.

Also since Vampires are just as real now as they were then...the early version was also just a Theatrical Prop.

The conflict comes about only when providence is misrepresented...and when the more contemporary Props are over priced.

Just my 2 cents...no more than that.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 24, 2009 01:19PM)
Agreed, but for 10000 to 40000 $, you don't buy a movie prop. Some of those kits have been sold by Christie's for sums between 10 and 40k $.
And, if you present the kit as a real one, it must baffle the antiquarians, so be prepared with very solid argument.
If you make such a prop, it's interesting to be well documented, otherwise a simple plastic with holy water is good enough.

Plus garlic fries are an insult to Belgians and Belgium's most cherished gourmet speciality ;)
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 24, 2009 01:27PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-24 14:19, The Curator wrote:
Plus garlic fries are an insult to Belgians and Belgium's most cherished gourmet speciality ;)
[/quote]
My humble apologies. Can we do wolfbane fries then?
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 24, 2009 02:10PM)
Wolfbane sounds rather poisonous...
But Belgian werewolves will appreciate.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 24, 2009 02:32PM)
Completely agree Mr. Curator.The 'bogus' kits being overpriced (like I mentioned) are ridiculous.

I would encourage others though, if they have penchant to do so, to make Prop Kits for the many who are attracted to them. A $100 or $200 kit would be fun to have without breaking the bank and not challenge the 'Authentic' ones in the least. In fact make your own up...even using Antique Crosses and Antique Prayer books (mine cost $8 on eBay is in German and is perfect for the look.) it might cost $75 to do a nice one minus a pistol. Mine only lacks the Silver Bullet I want to include and the Pistol. But my personal kit will be an all purpose kit and do in the Wolfys as well. :)

My kit will be strictly Universal Studios inspired. :)
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 24, 2009 02:51PM)
I made this one for my daughter's anniversary for less than 80$ there are 2 antique silver coins to cover the eyes of the defunct in the kit). And a Buffy Slayer kit is even less expensive.

[img]http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7937/vkk1aug6.jpg[/img]

The real Blomberg:

[img]http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7899/blom14webnn1.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 24, 2009 03:46PM)
Nice kit!!! By the way I do NOT intend to make kits for sale. (Don't bother asking.)

What is that 'long' thing?
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 24, 2009 03:48PM)
A stake and roses.
Message: Posted by: ghostgaff (Aug 24, 2009 06:07PM)
Curator, The red book in your picture posted above seemed oddly familiar, so I checked my own personal library, and I think I have an english edition in my own collection. I got it in some book store years ago. I got it mostly as a bit of a joke, but it ended up sparking an interest in vampires that has yet to leave me. It is a truly unique collection of vampire lore from all over the entire planet.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 25, 2009 01:21AM)
Yes, it's a funny little tome.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 25, 2009 02:20AM)
I always thought I might like an Anti-Giant Kit. But everything would have to be so big.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 25, 2009 02:25AM)
You just need a magic bean.
Message: Posted by: handa (Aug 25, 2009 04:42AM)
I resisted the urge to pick up a "sick kit" from the local church fair flea market last night. I may return if it is still there. They usually don't recycle consecrated items in such a manner.

This is the box that would contain oils and ritual materials for annointing. The containers are present, but devoid of oil and holy water, which may be one reason why it is on the table. It is also only five bucks.

The spiders living in the cobwebs of my brain this morning also thought it would be funny to see a "vampire killing kilt" outfitted with all of the stuff a holy highlander might need to dispatch Dracula. It is a little less funny now that the caffeine has kicked in, but interesting nonetheless.

Chris
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 25, 2009 05:52AM)
The sound of bagpipes should be enough to scare the bloodsuckers.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 25, 2009 07:53AM)
"You just need a magic bean. "

I have no doubt that is THE most brilliant retort to a silly comment in the history of the Café. I am humbled.
Message: Posted by: critter (Aug 26, 2009 11:04AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-24 14:19, The Curator wrote:
Plus garlic fries are an insult to Belgians and Belgium's most cherished gourmet speciality ;)
[/quote]

In America we call them "Freedom Bane."
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 27, 2009 01:06AM)
Your weapon must be selected according to the monster you fight.

the Monster:

[img]http://sketchedout.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/halloween-bunnies.jpg[/img]

The Stake

[img]http://brown.osu.edu/family-nutrition-program/carrot.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 27, 2009 07:12AM)
Oh Carrots are devine
You get a dozen for a dime...
It's Maaaaagic...

(Bugs Bynny. 1951)
Message: Posted by: handa (Aug 27, 2009 01:22PM)
Bunnicula Rocks!
Message: Posted by: Robin DeWitt (Aug 27, 2009 02:33PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-27 14:22, handa wrote:
Bunnicula Rocks!
[/quote]

Indeed he do. It's great that there is at least one other (ahem) mature Bunnicula fan. Those who have not availed themselves with this series of so called children books are missing out...a lot.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 27, 2009 03:36PM)
Chester would not approve.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 27, 2009 04:11PM)
Tommy cooper, the uk magician/comedian, he suggested carrying two sausages in your pocket - if a vampire tries to bite your neck, stick them up his nose...
Message: Posted by: Van Helmont (Aug 28, 2009 12:11PM)
Ah, good old Tommy Cooper!

A blind bloke walks into a shop with a guide dog. He picks the dog up and starts swinging it around his head. Alarmed, a shop assistant calls out: 'Can I help, sir?' 'No thanks,' says the blind bloke. 'Just looking.'

A woman tells her doctor, 'I've got a bad back.' The doctor says, 'It's old age.' The woman says, 'I want a second opinion.' The doctor says: 'Okay - you're ugly as well.'
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 30, 2009 11:09AM)
[img]http://geektyrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/pinocchiobook_img_0.jpg[/img]

I suppose he sits in front of the vampire, his nose pointing to the vampire' heart. Then he starts lying...
Message: Posted by: critter (Aug 31, 2009 12:20PM)
The carrot would never work on Bunnicula, he would just drink it's juice and then it would be all pale and floppy.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 31, 2009 12:35PM)
But Pinocchio's nose will...
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 31, 2009 01:44PM)
Hmmmm... new use for an appearing cane?
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Aug 31, 2009 02:38PM)
Poor old Geppetto was the first to go! Who knew…
“Have nose will travel to Transylvania?”

Walt
Message: Posted by: critter (Sep 2, 2009 10:35AM)
Brings a whole new meaning to hitting him with the sap.

[quote]
On 2009-08-31 13:35, The Curator wrote:
But Pinocchio's nose will...
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Sep 19, 2009 01:23PM)
I feel that it would be the decent thing to interview a few vampires first to see how they actually feel about people slaying them.I am sure that you might come to a compromise (although probably not on your terms.) :)

http://www.quizilla.com/quizzes/1022317/which-famous-vampire-are-you
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Sep 19, 2009 01:52PM)
Dracula...
Message: Posted by: seadog93 (Sep 19, 2009 02:42PM)
These are awesome, I want to make one too!!!
Vampires are ridiculously popular lately on Tv and movies, this could be a wonderful show. I'm thinking seance.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Sep 20, 2009 07:40AM)
Typical! The Curator end up with Dracula -the master of all vampires. However I did end up with Lestat de Lioncourt so things could be worse.

Hmm I am reminded of the character Rufus King in the film 'Dracula's Curse'.He was both a vampire slayer and Dracula himself in disguise. Is there something that you should be telling us Master "Curator"......?
Message: Posted by: critter (Sep 21, 2009 02:46PM)
I wish somebody would put the stake in that Edgar or whatever his name is from Twee-light. Immortal being almost a hundred years old hanging out at a high school to score chicks. Something wrong with that.

Oh, I got Dracula too.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Sep 12, 2010 08:54AM)
Speaking about vampire hunter kits, here are some important tools for tomb raiders, vampire hunters, body snatchers...

[img]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7555/vampireraiderweb02.jpg[/img]

The lamp (circa 1880) is a "thief's lamp", the tool has many functions on the same object and the knife... well.
Message: Posted by: Papa David (Sep 12, 2010 10:36AM)
Beautiful! That lamp is really very cool.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Sep 25, 2010 04:15PM)
I should mention that we are moving the Surnateum Collection to a new and larger location. We need room. The Surnateum will be a private museum opened for private evenings/lectures/shows. The main exhibition will be about vampires(History of the Vampire Craze during the XVIIIth century, the Dracula collection, the Rhesus case, Benandanti and vampire killers, Gypsy Dhampires). We are in plan to do temporary exhibitions too. The Library section will be devoted to Ghosts and Spirits (from table turning to ghost hunting) and Hauntiques (Haunted Artifacts). The Library will be a place to study magic and allied arts (we have more or less 1000 books about magic). Serious students may also have the possibility to study our "precious collection" of grimoire and rare books about witchcraft, demonology, and so on.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Sep 25, 2010 05:07PM)
Nice!
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Sep 30, 2010 01:35PM)
Speaking about vampire killing kit, a traditional gypsy dhampire girl and witch (drabardi) should use material like this.
The doll is linked to the ancient tradition of Benandanti, the dreamers who fought evil doers while sleeping.
The locket (who contains a XVIIIth century witches grimoire and rosary) has been transmitted from one witch to the other during 200 years.
The locker contains everything needed by a traditional rom gypsy to deal with fairies, vampires, and other monsters.

[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7475/drabardi04web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8639/drabardi03web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6453/drabardi01web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3262/drabardi02web.jpg[/img]

The "doll" represent Ana (St Anna), the queen of fairies. She's in the position of the dreamer, a bit like ... sleeping beauty.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Sep 30, 2010 02:30PM)
A dried Kermit, the witches grimoire and the rosary.

[img]http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5199/drabardi07web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/605/drabardi05web.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Gypsyprince12 (Oct 3, 2010 09:01PM)
Very very touching and unique photos . I wish I could get my hands on some of these type of things. :(
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 4, 2010 02:20AM)
A closer look at:
The "grimoire" (in French and full of vegetal poisons)

[img]http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7153/drabardibookweb.jpg[/img]

The Witches rosary

[img]http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/8933/drabardirosaryweb.jpg[/img]

The Hausmess

[img]http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/9502/drabardihausmessweb.jpg[/img]

When I look at the locker's contain, I've the impression to be in a Brothers Grimm Tale...
Message: Posted by: Gypsyprince12 (Oct 4, 2010 01:14PM)
Where can I find more information about things like this? Are there any good books or sites ?
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 4, 2010 01:20PM)
"Gypsy sorcery and fortune telling" by Charles Godfrey Leland is IMHO a good start.
Otherwise there are a lot of various sites about Rom tradition.
You should also check books and information about benandanti (not specifically gypsy but very interesting).
This locker is unique and Gypsy artifacts are extremely difficult to find.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gsft/index.htm
http://www.gypsyloresociety.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_mythology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benandanti
Message: Posted by: Gypsyprince12 (Oct 5, 2010 04:15PM)
Thank you very much for all those links and suggestions Curator.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 18, 2010 07:48AM)
More vampire artifacts from our collection.

The microscope and a vampire upper jaw.


[img]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1815/vampnb02jweb.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8520/vampmach01web.jpg[/img]

Various XIXth century silver medals from Holy Virgin that will be melted to cast silver bullets. Then, the bullets will be rubbed by Holy Oil. The "standind medal" behind the others is a XVIth century pilgrim medal. The Beast of Gevaudan was killed by blessed bullets made from such medals by Jean Chastel.

[img]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9843/silverbulletsnbweb.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 18, 2010 09:34AM)
Don't forget that all those "props" lead to various vampire shows and effects. They're far less "innocent" that they look like. It's the material I use on a professional basis...
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 31, 2010 01:26PM)
And one more: a XVIIIth century silver enameled Byzantine cross.
No vampire hunter should leave home without one...

[img]http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4562/byzcross1web.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Nov 1, 2010 05:47AM)
Great and interesting photos!

A 19th C Vampire Killing Kit was auctioned off the other night on the new Discovery channel show 'Auction Kings'.

The pre auction estimate was $7,500. The winning bid was $12,000.

It was very cool. Instead of a pistol, it had small crossbow.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 1, 2010 10:28AM)
A crossbow is a heresy in a XIXth century vampire Killing Kit (so, the kit is a fake).
But if the maker wins 12000$, why not... :)
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Nov 1, 2010 11:12PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-01 11:28, The Curator wrote:
A crossbow is a heresy in a XIXth century vampire Killing Kit (so, the kit is a fake).
But if the maker wins 12000$, why not... :)
[/quote]

You may be correct. There is a possibility it was a wonderful 19th piece of folk art,and collection of real artifacts. However....

They did have experts look at it before it was put up for auction,and being a collector of antiquities myself,I do know that legit auction houses do not put things up for auction without good confirmation....for obvious reasons

Furthermore, I do not understand how one can emphatically say something is a 'fake' without even seeing it. :)

I am aware of the many modern made replica's that are passed off as real, and some that are very cool reproductions...and sold as such.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 2, 2010 02:25AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-02 00:12, RicHeka wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-11-01 11:28, The Curator wrote:
A crossbow is a heresy in a XIXth century vampire Killing Kit (so, the kit is a fake).
But if the maker wins 12000$, why not... :)
[/quote]

You may be correct. There is a possibility it was a wonderful 19th piece of folk art,and collection of real artifacts. However....


Furthermore, I do not understand how one can emphatically say something is a 'fake' without even seeing it. :)


[/quote]

Because no one used crossbow to kill vampires during the XIXth century. It's a modern invention created for Buffy (1997) and John Carpenter's Vampires (1998). That's the reason why I don't need to see the kit, even if I've seen photos of a crossbow in a VKK (nicely made but fake)*. Believe me, I study vampire killing kits and vampire lore for a very long time, before I give my opinion. Plus a stake was usually a very long iron nail to fix the vampire in his tomb. An red hot iron stake is mentioned in Paul Feval's Les Tribunaux Secrets (1851) with imho the first illustration of a vampire staked in litterature.

[img]http://davidpratt.info/paranormal/vampire7.jpg[/img]

On the other side, silver bullets are mentioned in the XVIIIth century litterature (Silver bullets were shot in the clouds to kill witches).
When I give an opinion, be sure that I have all the original editions of the books in my library, where those facts are mentioned.
Usually fakers don't even know why silver (and blessed) bullets are used against witches, vampires and werewolves. That's why they commit so many stupid mistakes.
Another thing is that a prayer book or a Bible isn't really useful in a vampire killing kit. But a Rituale Romanum, blessed salt and holy water are.

*If someone tells me that Cleopatra smoked Marlboro cigarettes, I won't believe it either. ;)
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Nov 2, 2010 05:17PM)
*"If someone tells me that Cleopatra smoked Marlboro cigarettes, I won't believe it either".

My sources say Cleopatra smoked Camel cigarettes. :)
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 4, 2010 04:27AM)
More vampire props ?
A self-portrait of French actress Sarah Bernhardt as a vampire/demon (Bronze end of XIXth century). I don't tell you the price, you don't wanna know :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Bernhardt


[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6924/sarahbvamp2web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6166/sarahbvamp1web.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 4, 2010 10:35AM)
More ?
In 1851, the Chapel of Castle Tergnee (Farciennes, Belgium) was destroyed. Five tombs were found with 5 bodies (2 adults and 3 children) pierced with long iron nails. The bodies were those of the members of family Batthyany (linked to ... Dracula). The nails mysteriously vanished when brought to the museum of Charleroi.
Other objects were also found in the Chapel (dedicated to Saint Jacques) and kept by one of the construction workers.
The Castle nickname is Castle of the vampires.

Here they are.


[img]http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5149/vamptergnee3web.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Nov 4, 2010 11:41AM)
Glorious!
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 4, 2010 01:14PM)
Should I mention that both keys are perfectly balanced for a well-known effect ?
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Nov 4, 2010 01:52PM)
Yes!!!
Of course mention THAT!
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 4, 2010 02:39PM)
If you take a closer look to the microscope photos, you may also find interesting items very useful for certain bizarre uses... :)
Usually, it may be interesting to take closer looks at my photos, some informations may be hidden there.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 30, 2010 09:12AM)
Real vampires don't sparkle...

http://www.wat.tv/video/twilight-parodie-halloween-35t2v_2exyz_.html
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 2, 2010 06:23AM)
The Collector (circa 1900), Tomb Raider, Vampire Slayer, Archeologist of the Mysterious and Explorer of the Unknown.

[img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4750/collectionneur03web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1148/collectionneur04web.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: sweetcarl (Dec 2, 2010 12:29PM)
I've had the pleasure of seeing all of these items in real life at the Surnateum and I am looking forward to seeing them in the new, larger Surnateum that The Curator mentioned above. The pictures are beautiful, but imagine the impact when you see them in the proper surroundings! :)
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 3, 2010 02:30AM)
And a closer look at the contains of his bag.

[img]http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2737/vamphunter01web.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: andreas (Dec 9, 2010 12:46AM)
This beatutiful (and original) vampire killing kit was sold for "only" 4800$.
I guess the new home of this kit is the Surnateum? ;-))

http://www.gregmartinauctions.com/Auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=93201

(Sorry, I don't know how to add pictures)

Greetings
Andreas
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 9, 2010 01:33AM)
[img]http://www.gregmartinauctions.com/images/inventory/58/63625_01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.gregmartinauctions.com/images/inventory/58/63625_02.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.gregmartinauctions.com/images/inventory/58/63625_03.jpg[/img]

Thanks Andreas.
This kit is really nice (even if totally illogical according to vampire and monster hunting). But alas, not housed at the Surnateum. :(
The final price of 4700$ seems very low for a "real antique" item, but correct for a nice curiosa like this. So; I've a serious doubt about the authenticity but can't really find any mistake at first sight.
Message: Posted by: Joshua J (Dec 9, 2010 02:24AM)
Is that a multi-tool cross?: cross, knife, spanner, bottle opener and corkscrew all in one.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 9, 2010 05:11AM)
[quote]By tradition, this example was brought back from Germany after WWII by one Sergeant Glen Pendelton [b]who liberated it[/b] from a German museum in Berlin.[/quote]

I like the "euphemism"... :lol: :lol: :lol:
A bit like those who "liberate" rare and precious antiquities from the museum of Bagdad.
Message: Posted by: Winston Louis (Dec 21, 2010 10:28AM)
[quote]
[img]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1239/vampirekillingkitweb1zj7.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Dear Curator,
I am very impressed by your work I am discovering on this forum! It is among the most complete and learned works I have encountered so far, and I congratulate you wholeheartedly!
On closer inspection of your opulant pictures, I cannot fail to notice the pendant on the left of the picture, a Fuchshaken. These are so common in Bavaria and Austria, that seeing one here stands out.
Why is it there?
Yours truly,
- Winston
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 21, 2010 01:04PM)
The "Fuchsaken" ,(are you sure about the spelling ?) is there because it was among the items in the VKK.
Thanks for your appreciation.
Message: Posted by: Winston Louis (Dec 21, 2010 02:45PM)
Dear Curator,

Thank you for clearifying. Every shop in the eastern alps have them, I saw so many of them on vacation. They are such a folkloristic attribute to the already carnavalesque lederhosen that your pendant seemed out of place.
Yes, fuchs in German means fox, and haken I don't know. It's part of the charivari as included on this picture.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Charivari_%28bavaria%2C_late_20.century%29.JPG/728px-Charivari_%28bavaria%2C_late_20.century%29.JPG[/img]
Yours truly,
-Winston
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 21, 2010 03:04PM)
Nice Bavarian charivari. :)

Haken should be a hook.
This specific item (our Fuchshaken) is dated from the second part of the nineteenth century.
Some objects from my collection can be seen here: http://www.surnateum.org
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 22, 2010 03:43AM)
The tradition of wearing animal parts (teeth) is almost universal. My collection contains among other amulets, a XVIIth century Thai Tiger tooth, a XIXth century Hmong/Miao Bear tooth with silver, this specific German amulet...
Usually, they protect the wearer from being attacked by wild beasts and various monsters/ghosts. The wearer also benefits from some animal "qualities". It may explain why the teeth are in the VKK. Amulet and trophy ?
Message: Posted by: Winston Louis (Dec 22, 2010 07:12AM)
Dear Curator,

I can not start to thank you enough for passing me the hyperlink to the surnateum, I am in awe! Were/are all of the objects of the museum yours? Did you donate your collection?
If you don't mind my asking, you aren't American, are you?
Yours truly,
-Winston
Message: Posted by: Winston Louis (Dec 22, 2010 07:37AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-21 16:04, The Curator wrote:
Nice Bavarian charivari. :)
[/quote]

Dear Curator,

Did you notice how I forced the Ace of Spades (or Two of Spades if you count both sides)?
Yours truly,
-Winston
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 22, 2010 07:50AM)
I'm Belgian, and all the collection is mine. The Surnateum shows only a very small part of the real collection.

I noticed the 2 of spades :) .
Message: Posted by: Winston Louis (Dec 22, 2010 07:57AM)
Dear Curator,

Congratulation on your life's work!
I visited Belgium many many times, all parts of the country (if you know what I mean).
Your scientists are top notch and you have produced some fine authors, artists and perhaps even magicians too.
We're flying to London tomorrow for X-mas (chance to see our grandchildren). Not that far away.
Happy to make your acquaintance.
Yours truly,
-Winston
Message: Posted by: Jake Murphree (Dec 22, 2010 09:58AM)
I'm just going to pour a Café Cortado and enjoy this conversation. Truly fascinating dialogue here.

I'm passionately obsessed with this area of study and can only hope to acquire the mountain of wisdom these gentlemen and several others possess.

At what age did you start collecting and researching?

I'm very inspired, though, I must ask - What would make one assume that he is not American? I'm just curious. And please, spare no opinions. You won't offend me. You don't have to answer this if you feel it would stir hostility.

Thank you for sharing your collections and knowledge.

Jake Murphree
Message: Posted by: Winston Louis (Dec 22, 2010 10:46AM)
Dear Mr Murphree,

I began my formal medical studies at 17 (that means in 1949), and I almost immediately started collecting everything I could afford on psychiatric deviances. When I became senior house officer (this is when I was in London), one of my colleagues also worked at Friern Hospital in the early Fifties, and he got me a whole bunch of their originals. Back then electrotherapy was commonly used in psychiatry, so next to being a practitioner, I also started collecting the ancestors. And before I knew it, I already had well over 1000 pieces. I have a lot more now... to my wife's despair ;) !
As for the American issue, yes, that is a tricky one. I'll try to explain.
In my position as former Senior Vice-Chancellor, I travelled the world, did 3 international congresses per year and lectured in all continents (except Africa). What I found, as a psychiatrist, was that we Americans in general -and I stress this- lack thoroughness in learning what our foreign peers/colleagues/competitors actually drives. Not per se what they do, but what drives them, what their culture means withing their thinking process.
I find the Curator a man who studies all cultural, sociological, political, et al. nuances of his subjects, and this is most un-American. We prefer to stay on the surface.
I think this is due to our lack of a mythology of our own (except the native-American culture that was conveniently 'removed'). But that's an entirely different discussion, and a lenghty one at that.
And as I'm digging deeper into the forum, this conviction of differenciation is confirmed more and more.
But, there is no reason to despair: we've got the Batman :)
Yours truly,
-Winston
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 22, 2010 10:57AM)
One day, 30 years ago, I entered a coin shop to buy some silver coins for a routine. The guy sold some antique Egyptian scarabs too. I discovered 3 very important things that would change my way to do magic.

- There was more magic in a small antique scarab than in any card trick I could perform.
- An antique object was affordable.
- I could create magic using those items (my first routine using an "antique" item was based on the Curse of Tut Ankh Amen).

I also discovered that a lot of people know their subject better than me, and I wanted to entertain those people. There's no shortcut to knowledge.
To perform my kind of magic, I needed such a perfect card/coin/... technique that no one could know how I did: so I created a new range of techniques and manipulations based on new approaches that could fool the bests (Blitz, Phantoms, Mux...).
I tested it in live condition with the best magicians of the time and it worked.
Message: Posted by: Jake Murphree (Dec 22, 2010 12:46PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-22 11:46, Winston Louis wrote:
As for the American issue, yes, that is a tricky one. I'll try to explain.
In my position as former Senior Vice-Chancellor, I travelled the world, did 3 international congresses per year and lectured in all continents (except Africa). What I found, as a psychiatrist, was that we Americans in general -and I stress this- lack thoroughness in learning what our foreign peers/colleagues/competitors actually drives. Not per se what they do, but what drives them, what their culture means withing their thinking process.
I find the Curator a man who studies all cultural, sociological, political, et al. nuances of his subjects, and this is most un-American. We prefer to stay on the surface.
[/quote]

Mr.Louis, that was insightful. Thank you. It completely makes sense and is something that is not often considered in this form of entertainment.
Message: Posted by: Jake Murphree (Dec 22, 2010 12:55PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-22 11:57, The Curator wrote:
One day, 30 years ago, I entered a coin shop to buy some silver coins for a routine. The guy sold some antique Egyptian scarabs too. I discovered 3 very important things that would change my way to do magic.

- There was more magic in a small antique scarab than in any card trick I could perform.
- An antique object was affordable.
- I could create magic using those items (my first routine using an "antique" item was based on the Curse of Tut Ankh Amen).

I also discovered that a lot of people know their subject better than me, and I wanted to entertain those people. There's no shortcut to knowledge.
To perform my kind of magic, I needed such a perfect card/coin/... technique that no one could know how I did: so I created a new range of techniques and manipulations based on new approaches that could fool the bests (Blitz, Phantoms, Mux...).
I tested it in live condition with the best magicians of the time and it worked.
[/quote]

The 3 discoveries you outlined are PRECISELY the same light bulbs that lit above my head. I've been doing "magic" for about 10 years, and have always had an obsession with all things "bizarre". Little did I know, a community of entertainers had combined the two with an amazing result. I just stepped into this world last year and I don't think I could ever turn back to conventional magic.

The reactions I've witnessed from a strange antique presented with an engaging story (with no gimmick,sleight of hand, magic, etc), have been far more powerful than any magic trick I've done. It's addicting.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 23, 2010 01:00AM)
With this kind of magic you need either a lot of money or a lot of time.
If you've a lot of time (like me), you'll become a treasure hunter and will soon discover that treasures aren't necessarily hidden in sunken boats in the sea of China...
Becoming a treasure hunter will be part of your life and adventures. It will also build your persona.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Dec 23, 2010 11:55AM)
For the fun: this was the first antique object that started the Surnateum. It wasn't the first weird object,: voodoo dolls and Zodiac chart came first.

[img]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4774/scarabeeweb.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Archeology1 (Mar 27, 2011 03:47AM)
OK, I know this is an old thread, but I just stumbled across this site while doing some research on ancient weaponry, and I just have to post and play devil's advocate regarding the Curator's claims regarding these vampire kits.
First of all, I find it astonishingly amazing that professionals working for auction houses and museums have a hard time telling an authentic kit from a fake, but the Curator can identify a fake by simply looking at a photo or hearing a description of one from a third party.

Let's start off with the Curator's first claims regarding the kit on page 1.
According the Curator he instantly proclaimed the kit on page 1 as being a fake.
Someone else asked for evidence and he replied -

[quote]Bottles are from the 1930/40's era at least[/quote]

I have a couple of questions regarding this claim...
1- What specific details give away that the bottles are from the 1930's-40's?
2- And is there a source for this information?
BTW the tops seen on those bottles are called "applied tops" which were around prior to the 1900s.

[quote]pistol is ridiculous[/quote]

Something being "ridiculous" has never been used as a method for dating antiquities....So how does it apply here?
pompadours are also ridiculous, does that mean they weren't around prior to the 20th century?

[quote]the wooden stake (with crosses) weren't in use[/quote]

Im curious to know just how you came to this conclusion? DO you have a book which flat out states that "stakes with crosses" were never used prior to the 20th century?
If so, Id like to know the source of this information.

[quote]the disposition in the box isn't correct for a XIXth century kit[/quote]

So you're saying that all vampire kits prior to the 19th century had to conform to a specific arrangement or disposition?
All Vampire kit makers had to follow the same template?
Where is the source regarding this information?

[quote]Because no one used crossbow to kill vampires during the XIXth century. It's a modern invention created for Buffy (1997) and John Carpenter's Vampires (1998).[/quote]

How exactly do you know crossbows were not used to fend off vampires?
We know that crossbows have been around for hundreds of years to kill people, but you are somehow certain they were never utilized in Vampire superstition...How exactly did you come to this conclusion?

Sorry about this post, but nearly every one of your claims seems pretentious, and seems to be exclusively based on your opinion, rather than flat out facts.
Keep in mind, Im not saying these kits are real, but your pontifications are baseless.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Mar 27, 2011 07:07AM)
One post user... And your name is?
Are you the seller of the "funny crossbow kit" ? Or the buyer ? Whatever...
You'll probably also claim that wireless telephone existed at the time of Christ because no wire from that era has been discovered yet...

We have a very good research team at the Surnateum, including a people who work also at the Invalides (the Musée de l'Armée in Paris).
If you need answers, please search the web. You'll probably discover:
- that people who dealed with vampires were from the police or the army helped by doctors. Never heard about "Visum et Repertum" ? You should check the web too. So pistols used by police or soldiers are very specific.
- that Crossbows weren't anymore in use during the XVIIIth and XIXth century at the army or police. (If you've an historical source for the contrary, feel free to inform us)
- The tradition was to decapitate the body and/or stake it (to fix the vampire in his coffin and destroying his heart) and or placing the body face down or under a big stone. This tradition was in use at the Roman era.
- That vampires didn't really look like count Dracula before 1897 and they don't necessary have big pointy teeth.
- That there are differences between drinkable potions and poison in the shape of the bottle (in the dark, you should feel the difference). XIXth century poison bottles were translucid, green or blue. The olders are usually blue.
When we do research, we work on original documents, the Surnateum has an extraordinary library.
Someone claimed that nor Blomberg or Plomdeur (the makers of the kits) existed. At that time it was a real challenge to discover them both and we did it. (check Wiki for Blomberg)
So, prove us that crossbows were in use to kill vampires during the XVIII and XIXth century, I'm waiting eagerly.


I won't give you more free information, you should make some by yourself before trying to sell another "original" XVIIIth century vampire killing kit.
But don't worry, they will always be buyers.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Mar 27, 2011 08:34AM)
Ummm.... some people thought this was all really real?

Aside: Hello Winston! I am a psychiatrist too - sounds like we have kindred spirits... come visit my whacky site when you get the chance... I use the mystery arts to educate on mental health all the time :)

As a simulationist - I've considered most of the things I read here to be more along the lines of "levels of fidelity" i.e. even if its not 100% fidelity, people like the Curator take the time to boost the realism of the narratives to more than just popular shlock. Just like when I first started playing RPGs like Cthulhu, the stories were based on real settings and times but not 100% real... more a fictional version of the times...but it inspired me to do my own research to see what historical works said about the times. Sadly, often history is not as colorful as the legends around them :).... and heck, not to bring in disclaimers/no disclaimers - I always thought the Spookies stories were automatically considered entertainment... and inspiring people to research further.

But that is just me!

When I present something like the Mirror of Nitocris, there is no Nitocris... well, there is one based on a story based on a tale... and we can set it into the 6th Dynasty - and I can add in more and more realism as needed... but there is no Nitocris... but hell, it still works...

The Curator's Psychostasis routine I really loved so much I went and designed my own Weighing of the Soul/Heart using a giant custom scale, have had Bauta style masks of all the gods that would be present for such a ritual to allow specs to be involved, some SFX for Ammut to stalk invisibly around the proceedings... it isn't based on 100% reality... but it works for my purposes...

Or maybe I missed the point :)

But heck, the Curator's works are inspirational to many of us - and it didn't matter if the material isn't 100% based in reality...although I could see he took the effort to try to get it there whenever he could - but I always thought his point was to create a wonderful presentention of Wonder....

IIMMMMHHHOOOO
Message: Posted by: CharlaineC (Mar 28, 2011 02:05PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-23 12:55, The Curator wrote:
For the fun: this was the first antique object that started the Surnateum. It wasn't the first weird object,: voodoo dolls and Zodiac chart came first.

[img]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4774/scarabeeweb.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I just had to post how beautiful this scarab is. I was wondering what it was used for?
Message: Posted by: Antoine (Mar 29, 2011 04:34AM)
[quote]Sorry about this post, but nearly every one of your claims seems pretentious, and seems to be exclusively based on your opinion, rather than flat out facts.
Keep in mind, Im not saying these kits are real, but your pontifications are baseless.
[/quote]

What I find pretentious is to make kits (without really knowing the subject) and believe that people who worked on that subject will not be aware that these are fakes...
As for claiming that the Curator's comments are baseless, you should see the important files that we have assembled about panic vampire and VKK... The Surnateum worked with the musée de l'Armée in Paris (the world largest museum of arms...). Needless to say we know exactly what we mean when we talk about the type of guns used in these kits and it is very easy to differentiate between a real gun and an ordinary pocket pistol ... It is the same for Nicolas Plomdeur, the dealer who assembled the kits at the request of Blomberg: we have traced all the family members in their various workshop in Paris and Liege.

Now, if you have any serious information, credible or reasoning based on that, we all listen to you.
Message: Posted by: Archeology1 (Mar 29, 2011 04:44AM)
[quote]
Are you the seller of the "funny crossbow kit" ? Or the buyer ? Whatever...[/quote]

No, just someone looking for a few specifics on vintage weaponry, and happened to stumble across this site.[/b]

[quote]You'll probably also claim that wireless telephone existed at the time of Christ because no wire from that era has been discovered yet...[/quote]

Hardly an adequate comparison considering that these kits don't include advanced technology which would be outlandishly outside the realm of their supposed time period.

[quote]We have a very good research team at the Surnateum, including a people who work also at the Invalides (the Musée de l'Armée in Paris).
If you need answers, please search the web. You'll probably discover:[/quote]

I'm sure the Surnateum and other museums do have good research teams...And these teams have researchers who have hands-on experience with these kits.
I'm specifically talking about you being able to confirm or deny a fake vampire kit by merely looking at a photo, or hearing a description from a 3rd party, without any physical examination.
I know the Mercer museum conducted research on one of their kits and after examining the type of paper and glue they were able to determine that the chemicals were post 1940's, thus proving it a fake.
However, you're deductive reasoning is astounding considering that you were able to discredit the the kit by merely looking at a photo or hearing a vague description from a 3rd party.

[quote]- that people who dealed with vampires were from the police or the army helped by doctors. Never heard about "Visum et Repertum" ? You should check the web too. So pistols used by police or soldiers are very specific.[/quote]

The people who deal with criminals are also the police, but that still doesn't prevent people from arming themselves with their own assortment of private weapons as a contingency plan if the police are not available.
There is no way you can discount the possibility that people could have privately equipped themselves to deal with vampires.


[quote]- that Crossbows weren't anymore in use during the XVIIIth and XIXth century at the army or police.[/quote]

First you need to establish that the army and police were the only ones who exclusively dealt with with vampires...And thus far you have not been able to prove this.


[quote]- The tradition was to decapitate the body and/or stake it (to fix the vampire in his coffin and destroying his heart) and or placing the body face down or under a big stone. This tradition was in use at the Roman era.[/quote]

Lore regarding the destruction of a vampire widely varied in different cultures. This information is actually irrelevant to the discussion at hand since it doesn't prove or disprove the the authenticity of a kit. Just a random bit of vampire information.

[quote]- That vampires didn't really look like count Dracula before 1897 and they don't necessary have big pointy teeth.[/quote]

What vampires looked like is once again irrelevant as it doesn't serve to confirm or deny the authenticity of these kits.
None of these kits give any indication that a vampire must look a certain way.
As for the fangs, that has pretty much been a staple of vampire characteristics prior to Dracula and established in Varney the Vampire and Carmilla (printed prior to Dracula). Even Chinese vampires with fangs were established over a hundred years before Dracula.


[quote]- That there are differences between drinkable potions and poison in the shape of the bottle (in the dark, you should feel the difference). XIXth century poison bottles were translucid, green or blue. The olders are usually blue.[/quote]

Considering these kits were probably manufactured private craftsmen, rather than companies, there's no flat out rule that suggests these craftsmen couldn't have used any bottles which were at their disposal.
Most bottles of Coke come in a specifically shaped bottle with a specific design...However, I have on occasion, poured a coke in a different cup or bottle. There is nothing to stop me from doing so, just as there was nothing to stop a possible kit maker from using a random bottle for poisons.


[quote]Someone claimed that nor Blomberg or Plomdeur (the makers of the kits) existed. At that time it was a real challenge to discover them both and we did it. (check Wiki for Blomberg)[/quote]

I never questioned the validity of Blomberg of Plomdeur's existence.


[quote]So, prove us that crossbows were in use to kill vampires during the XVIII and XIXth century, I'm waiting eagerly.[/quote]

I can prove right now that crossbows are still in use today, to shoot targets, people, animals and any other objects that a persons wishes to....So the the issue isn't that I have to prove that crossbows were used to kill vampires, the issue is that you have to prove that they absolutely weren't used as a method to kill vampires.
Considering all of the people who lived during the 18th & 19th century, there is no way you can flat out prove that not a single person ever used a crossbow as a defense against vampire.



[quote]I won't give you more free information, you should make some by yourself before trying to sell another "original" XVIIIth century vampire killing kit.
But don't worry, they will always be buyers.
[/quote]

Did you use that same deductive reasoning to assume that Im the seller of the vampire kit?
It seems to me that you're trying to label me as the seller of the kit in order to discredit my questions, while validating your own conclusions.
Use whatever method you like.
Message: Posted by: William Draven (Mar 29, 2011 10:08AM)
Archeology with all due respect (And I'm not saying that your thoughts aren't well constructed), but I can't help but feel that you are sailing into troubled waters my friend. I don't think this is one fight you really want to pick. The Curator has always been well read, and informed for what little time I've been here. I suspect he wouldn't post his thoughts on a subject without having the experience or research first available to back him up.
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 29, 2011 12:24PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-29 05:44, Archeology1 wrote:
[quote]
Are you the seller of the "funny crossbow kit" ? Or the buyer ? Whatever...[/quote]

No, just someone looking for a few specifics on vintage weaponry, and happened to stumble across this site.[/b]

[quote]You'll probably also claim that wireless telephone existed at the time of Christ because no wire from that era has been discovered yet...[/quote]

Hardly an adequate comparison considering that these kits don't include advanced technology which would be outlandishly outside the realm of their supposed time period.

[quote]We have a very good research team at the Surnateum, including a people who work also at the Invalides (the Musée de l'Armée in Paris).
If you need answers, please search the web. You'll probably discover:[/quote]

I'm sure the Surnateum and other museums do have good research teams...And these teams have researchers who have hands-on experience with these kits.
I'm specifically talking about you being able to confirm or deny a fake vampire kit by merely looking at a photo, or hearing a description from a 3rd party, without any physical examination.
I know the Mercer museum conducted research on one of their kits and after examining the type of paper and glue they were able to determine that the chemicals were post 1940's, thus proving it a fake.
However, you're deductive reasoning is astounding considering that you were able to discredit the the kit by merely looking at a photo or hearing a vague description from a 3rd party.

[quote]- that people who dealed with vampires were from the police or the army helped by doctors. Never heard about "Visum et Repertum" ? You should check the web too. So pistols used by police or soldiers are very specific.[/quote]

The people who deal with criminals are also the police, but that still doesn't prevent people from arming themselves with their own assortment of private weapons as a contingency plan if the police are not available.
There is no way you can discount the possibility that people could have privately equipped themselves to deal with vampires.


[quote]- that Crossbows weren't anymore in use during the XVIIIth and XIXth century at the army or police.[/quote]

First you need to establish that the army and police were the only ones who exclusively dealt with with vampires...And thus far you have not been able to prove this.


[quote]- The tradition was to decapitate the body and/or stake it (to fix the vampire in his coffin and destroying his heart) and or placing the body face down or under a big stone. This tradition was in use at the Roman era.[/quote]

Lore regarding the destruction of a vampire widely varied in different cultures. This information is actually irrelevant to the discussion at hand since it doesn't prove or disprove the the authenticity of a kit. Just a random bit of vampire information.

[quote]- That vampires didn't really look like count Dracula before 1897 and they don't necessary have big pointy teeth.[/quote]

What vampires looked like is once again irrelevant as it doesn't serve to confirm or deny the authenticity of these kits.
None of these kits give any indication that a vampire must look a certain way.
As for the fangs, that has pretty much been a staple of vampire characteristics prior to Dracula and established in Varney the Vampire and Carmilla (printed prior to Dracula). Even Chinese vampires with fangs were established over a hundred years before Dracula.


[quote]- That there are differences between drinkable potions and poison in the shape of the bottle (in the dark, you should feel the difference). XIXth century poison bottles were translucid, green or blue. The olders are usually blue.[/quote]

Considering these kits were probably manufactured private craftsmen, rather than companies, there's no flat out rule that suggests these craftsmen couldn't have used any bottles which were at their disposal.
Most bottles of Coke come in a specifically shaped bottle with a specific design...However, I have on occasion, poured a coke in a different cup or bottle. There is nothing to stop me from doing so, just as there was nothing to stop a possible kit maker from using a random bottle for poisons.


[quote]Someone claimed that nor Blomberg or Plomdeur (the makers of the kits) existed. At that time it was a real challenge to discover them both and we did it. (check Wiki for Blomberg)[/quote]

I never questioned the validity of Blomberg of Plomdeur's existence.


[quote]So, prove us that crossbows were in use to kill vampires during the XVIII and XIXth century, I'm waiting eagerly.[/quote]

I can prove right now that crossbows are still in use today, to shoot targets, people, animals and any other objects that a persons wishes to....So the the issue isn't that I have to prove that crossbows were used to kill vampires, the issue is that you have to prove that they absolutely weren't used as a method to kill vampires.
Considering all of the people who lived during the 18th & 19th century, there is no way you can flat out prove that not a single person ever used a crossbow as a defense against vampire.



[quote]I won't give you more free information, you should make some by yourself before trying to sell another "original" XVIIIth century vampire killing kit.
But don't worry, they will always be buyers.
[/quote]

Did you use that same deductive reasoning to assume that Im the seller of the vampire kit?
It seems to me that you're trying to label me as the seller of the kit in order to discredit my questions, while validating your own conclusions.
Use whatever method you like.
[/quote]


[img]http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/facepalmzzzp11.gif[/img]
Message: Posted by: Joshua J (Mar 29, 2011 12:57PM)
If I've learnt anything from studying the vampire killing techniques of the Frog brothers crossbows are unnecessary. Just water pistols and a bath full of garlic water.
Message: Posted by: winewizard (Mar 30, 2011 09:08AM)
I have done business with The Green Dragon for custom made Magic Wands & Juggling balls. I can attest to the superior quality of her work Now, Tracy has come up with a Vampire Hunting Kit. It is worth a look. She has terrific woodworking skills and the box alone is impressive.
She says it's weight is about 60 pounds. Feast your eyes and tantalize yourself at:
http://www.thegreendragon.us/vampirehuntingkit.html
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 30, 2011 12:24PM)
Archie,
I'd be interested in a published scholarly journal article written about VKK's. I won't be holding my breath.
People that take it that seriously are the same people who believe that Dan Brown's novels are real.
I'm not going to get carried away with rebuttals so as not to ruin anyone's schtick, just try to bear in mind that this forum is about entertainment. It's not a .edu website.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 8, 2014 08:24AM)
Recent acquisition for the Surnateum, a 1893 engraving (+ explanation) about a group of Romanians shooting at a vampire in his grave. 1893 means that it was published before Dracula.

[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/vampirbannen1893a_zpse35f093c.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/vampirbannen1893b_zpsac7874d6.jpg[/img]


Traduction (by my friend Carl Gibson) of the German text.

'Banishing vampires' in Romania
The superstition about vampires among Slavs, Romanians and Greeks in the Lower Danube countries is still very much alive today, despite all efforts to provide explanations for it. It is immediately aroused when shortly after the death of one family member several others die or fall ill and fade away as well. Believers are then convinced that the first fatality was a vampire, who rises up out of their grave every night to suck life-giving blood out of his or her family members and thereby extend his/her ghostly existence for a while. This belief in vampires is probably one of the most terrible forms of belief in demons and spectres and often leads to the desecration of corpses and the profanation of burial grounds. As soon as the inhabitants of a Romanian village become convinced that a recently deceased person is on the loose as a vampire, they turn to the time-honoured effective method of banishing the ghost. On a moonlit night, a number of plucky men goes to the cemetery and digs up the vampire's corpse. This is not a difficult job because the Romanians only bury their dead two feet under the earth. It is generally assumed that if the corpse is well preserved, this is proof that it is a vampire. The men then drive a metal spike through the breast of the corpse, shoot it several times (see picture on page 324) and then bury it again, believing that the vampire will now be unable to rise up and plague them any longer. Sometimes, they also cut off the corpse's head. But to banish a vampire it is deemed essential that its body be pierced with a stake because it is only this that actually kills the vampire, which goes on living in a body that only outwardly appears to be dead and sucks blood from its relatives to keep that body serviceable.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Oct 9, 2014 04:28AM)
Pesky little thing...

[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/vampiresuckingweb_zpsb6fc2a7e.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: FJR (Jul 24, 2016 11:03AM)
[quote]On Oct 8, 2014, The Curator wrote:
Recent acquisition for the Surnateum, a 1893 engraving (+ explanation) about a group of Romanians shooting at a vampire in his grave. 1893 means that it was published before Dracula.

[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/vampirbannen1893a_zpse35f093c.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/vampirbannen1893b_zpsac7874d6.jpg[/img]

Thank you 'Curator' for the fascinating articles, photos and information. I like to think of myself as something of an 'expert' in things vampiric and Dracula-like, but I bow to your far superior knowledge and scholarship!

All the best,
Francis
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Jul 24, 2016 01:15PM)
Thanks for your appreciation, the Surnateum has a huge collection of original XVIIIth century books and artefacts about vampirism and related subjects. So, I'm quite well documented from original sources.
Message: Posted by: gothicmagic (Jul 24, 2016 03:49PM)
You notice he never mentions much about Werewolf killing hmmmmm :)
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Jul 24, 2016 04:48PM)
[quote]On Jul 24, 2016, gothicmagic wrote:
You notice he never mentions much about Werewolf killing hmmmmm :) [/quote]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, you bet?

[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/dhampirgun2web_zpst9ah23qz.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/conservateur/dhampirgun6web_zpsz8b9800m.jpg[/img]