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Topic: So I get this comment reply on my rentention pass...
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 12, 2009 04:41PM)
This is by far the worst most hurtful comment I've ever received. I really didn't think I was this bad at magic until I heard it from this guy...this was regarding my retention pass using sponge balls, which I think is good. I've edited out a lot of it because it was pretty harsh...how come people do this? Its sickening.

"dude a retention vanish is not a big deal my looks nice and natural. I'm not trying to b mean but your retention sucks ****. both your retentions suck you just don't have what it takes to be a magician every time you do a magic tricks everyone knows how its done you suck dude just quit don't waste your time you don't got what it takes **** you for sucking at magic bit**"

Here's the video in question...at the time (it was a long time ago) I was trying to do a rentention taught in a pretty bad video, Jay from penguin magic SPONGE...I now use gary darwin's method (Just squeeze and pull..its the most simple and effective retention) and sometimes the clip methods used in Ben Salinas sponge DVD..great stuff. Oh, here's the video in question...and after that video is a new video I made of gary darwin's vanish which I think is a lot better.

Here's the one the guy (and some other people) Commented on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vMK71QcR7o

Here's the new one, 2 years later , using gary darwins method:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8IQHZmav5A
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Sep 12, 2009 07:04PM)
Um... that's what he says when he's NOT trying to be mean?

Ignore this prick and those like him.
Message: Posted by: KENNYRB (Sep 12, 2009 07:37PM)
Some people just don't get it. They make themselves feel better by attacking others. Magic, like most things in life, requires practice in order to perfect it. The moves can be learned if you put in the time. Just remember to always be honest with yourself, learn from others, and blow off the jerks. Keep at it.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Sep 12, 2009 08:38PM)
I'm with Gaddy... life's too short to give those jerks any attention- your stuff looks good...
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Sep 12, 2009 09:31PM)
Your vanish is good. Don't worry about it. In a real setting it would be great.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Sep 12, 2009 10:55PM)
It's one thing to say that someone's work is unconvincing and quite another to then go bragging rather than offer the help that person might use to improve their work.
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Sep 13, 2009 12:34AM)
Just focus on your own growth in magic and enjoy every step you are taking in that magical journey. And ignore those 'jerks' who don't deserve your attention at all.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Sep 13, 2009 12:50AM)
Your vanish is fine. Don't worry about this guy. He probably is not a magician. Besides, his grammar is what sucks. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: abc (Sep 13, 2009 01:36AM)
I also don't think your retention vanish is bad at all. Just ignore the guy.
On another point though, I saw David Roth do a retention vanish with a coin 3 times in a row and I went "I know it has to be a retention vanish, he calls it a retention vanish and logically it should be a retention vanish, but it just looks surreal."
One of the best I have seen.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Sep 13, 2009 10:17AM)
In the second video, I noticed your confidence improving and the use of a feint. Good job!

I often let the idiots get to me as well. You should take down the old video, it's served it's purpose.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Sep 13, 2009 10:36AM)
I would disable the "comments" section on YouTube (looks like you did on the second one).

The opinions here, really count. I like your Gary Darwin Vanish. Your practice time has been worth it, don't you think?

Now, working on presentation should be a breeze! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: tomterm8 (Sep 13, 2009 10:46AM)
[quote]
Oh, here's the video in question...and after that video is a new video I made of gary darwin's vanish which I think is a lot better.

[/quote]

All three are out of context... I would say, any of these three RV would work in a routine in real life, against normal people. The most recent shows a lot of progress.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Sep 13, 2009 11:06AM)
I just looked at the offender's YouTube page. He doesn't post any videos, and his favorite videos include "How to roll the perfect blunt" and "The best Black Jokes I could find". I also noticed several negative comments from people he had offended, including one from you. He obviously isn't trying to help or make friends. I think you should delete your comment. Spending any time on him will only encourage his attention seeking.
Message: Posted by: solrak29 (Sep 13, 2009 12:20PM)
If you going to put yourself out there open for comments you have to be thicker skinned and ready for such comments. For me, if the comment is not constructive or helps it's simply ignored. I could care less what they say. It is natural for comments like that to bother you a bit, but you have to move on and keep improving.

Which you did...bravo.

As far as your two videos, I see some improvement from year one to year two, but it is in presentation that I see the improvement. Both videos are actually simliar in the actual retention that you do, but your second retention in your second video is pretty nice. Either way I think they are both fine.

My advise is this; From the second video, look at your first placement in the hand (which I thought was a retention) and get your retention to look like that.

Keep it up and remove the older video as it is no longer relevant to your progress or keep it in your personal records.

You might also want to consider performing to a live audience when your routine is complete.

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 13, 2009 03:31PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-13 02:36, abc wrote:
I also don't think your retention vanish is bad at all. Just ignore the guy.
On another point though, I saw David Roth do a retention vanish with a coin 3 times in a row and I went "I know it has to be a retention vanish, he calls it a retention vanish and logically it should be a retention vanish, but it just looks surreal."
One of the best I have seen.
[/quote]

I remember seeing him explain his retention with a coin as well, it's incredible. I can't imagine ever becoming that good..he obviously must practice it his entire life, often.
Message: Posted by: Rockabilly (Sep 14, 2009 01:24AM)
The magic world is full of know it all laypeople. Your moves are fine, he's just a putz.
Message: Posted by: spatlind (Sep 14, 2009 11:20PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-13 13:20, solrak29 wrote:

My advise is this; From the second video, look at your first placement in the hand (which I thought was a retention) and get your retention to look like that.

[/quote]

I agree with this, I thought it was a retention too!
Message: Posted by: Wes65 (Sep 15, 2009 06:56AM)
There was a lot of improvement after two years. The first one had noticeable finger movement.


I agree with a previous post; I would disable the comments on Youtube.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Sep 21, 2009 06:41PM)
Consider the following: Perhaps the 'critic' was in fact jealous. Not one of the three examples was in fact 'bad' in any way. I thought personally the Noblezada version was the best, but is was a narrow thing.

You are doing very nicely. I'd give you gentle critique if I thought otherwise.

Note that there are people in this world that not only hate magic they hate themselves and pretty much everybody else. That animus comes out at the most unfortunate of times. Like pulling wings off flies, etc., their method of human interaction lacking honesty to begin with turns more corrosive as life passes them by.

What invalidates his comments is both their untruth AND the method of transmission. Think of it this way....if an obviously deranged person told you that Rolls Royce was a terrible car...would you believe them?

Best,
Message: Posted by: Double O Magic (Sep 25, 2009 04:12PM)
Wow I actually liked that vanish!
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 26, 2009 05:45PM)
Guys, I put up a new video that is more up to date. I used no jay retention vanish in there, but I did use gary darwins and ben salinas. Please tell me your honest feedback, what I need to improve on, finger movement, etc.

By the way, I understand the concept of where you put the ball in your hand (actually put it there) vs not, and try to replicate that. To me, I can't tell the difference right now. Maybe you can...I'm really open to all constructive criticisms to improve this, I'm just afraid its horrible or I may not have improved since last time.

Thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=268vIXfo2Qg
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 26, 2009 07:43PM)
Here's another video I just made showing all of those vanishes again, plus the jay noblezada one.

Thanks for looking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql2cdn2yrqM
Message: Posted by: adam wake (Sep 27, 2009 07:16AM)
Although I'm new to magic, I've been a long time fan and appreciater of the art and I have to say I was very impressed with your first video. You'll get better naturally, it's the enjoyable process which makes this all exciting and unpredictable.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Sep 27, 2009 09:31AM)
Any one of those are better than necessary. You can get by with the vanish in Wilson's book if your misdirection is sound. In the first new video, I like the first one the best. In a routine, it's sometimes nice to ditch the ball before the vanish is revealed, so it might not always be practical. The Darwin looks rushed, and is more of a toss than a placement, which doesn't look right for a piece of sponge. In the last 2 your index finger curls in, then straightens to point. Why would it do that?

Are you practicing sitting in front of your web cam? It seems to me that unless you're disabled, that is a very unnatural way to perform. Get up. You also keep your hands tight against your body, which looks suspicious. Try to keep your hands up and forward. I'd like to see a routine, standing. Like I said your vanishes are more than adequate. If your not performing for people, start now. These little esoteric things are fun for the hobbiest, but completely insignificant to lay people. It's like a chef practicing chopping and mixing, without ever producing a meal for anyone. You will get better but you're good enough to start performing for friends.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 27, 2009 01:16PM)
Josh, I made this video real quick of me doing it standing up. Sorry about the no sound...there's something wrong with my computer/and or camera because sometimes the sound doesn't work on it, despite it being a top of the line camera the video quality is horrible. Not sure why...

A few notes. The first part is where I produce the ball, the other parts is where it slowly passes thru the pocket, the vanish with the purse frame is the slydni vanish, and the ending is from the sponge ball toolkit. The whole rountine though is from mark wilsons book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3xCmQcAOXs

As a side note, that performance was horrible. I couldn't get the camera angled right and flashed...ugh. The last vanish looked terrible too...I have other videos I've done but this one is terrible.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Sep 27, 2009 01:55PM)
Very good! Slow down, eliminate unnecessary movements of your hands and body, make your hands more symmetrical at the very start. When pulling stuff out of the air, make your right hand look the same all 3 times. Relax your right hand after false transfers, it looks like you're holding something. When pretending to hold a ball, try moving your middle finger up closer to the base of the thumb. It will give your hand a rounder appearance (a Lawrence O. subtlety). Figure out a way to avoid adjusting the ball after putting down the purse frame. If the left fingers are holding it, why would they put it back into the right so it can put it back into the left? When placing the ball from left to right for "through the pocket", make less of a show of it. You're just transferring the ball from hand to hand, not doing anything magical. After the outside ball is in position, rub a second time with an obviously empty hand, as if you didn't rub enough. In "2 in the hand 1 in the pocket", hold the left hand in front and turn the right hand pocket slightly away. Minimize the importance of the ball going away. The important thing is that there are 2 in the hand. The second time they'll be watching to make sure that 3rd ball goes away. Work on getting the hand out of the pocket smoother the first time, it's just dropping a ball, too much digging around. Try getting it in position as the hand is in transit to the pocket. Notice the difference of the first time and the second time you put a ball away. It's hard to judge without your face and your words, but make sure in your mind you are following the position of the balls as known to the spectator. Great work so far. I know you'll keep at it.
Message: Posted by: The Big Q (Sep 28, 2009 08:43AM)
The guy is an idiot. I constantly do sponge ball (and sponge rabbit) magic - and even when I think I have totally stuffed up an RV, the punters never catch on... NEVER. We can get far too critical over the most minor things. Take it to the world! They'll love it!

Tony
Message: Posted by: solrak29 (Sep 28, 2009 10:32AM)
To add, you obviously are very knowledgeable of your vanishes, routines, and have done your homework. I would say, with your last video; which was commented on perfectly, shows that you need to have better routining. It is easy with sponge balls to want to do everything because it's so neat; I know, I've been there.

Scale your routine down and practice that one routine a million times, then post back again for review (if you want). Then go out and perform it to real people or you will be here forever showing us all sorts of vanishes (thanks for lesson btw :) ). Though its fun, you don't need to do them all in a routine. Pick your favorite or best and use it.

Here is an example to get you started:

Start out with your purse frame show its empty, produce one sponge. Produce a second sponge (either through purse frame or splitting the first sponge). Then
do a vanish and make two appear in the spectators hand. Then make three.

Short simple, sweet, and magical...but you won't know until you perform it to real
people.

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 28, 2009 03:57PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-28 11:32, solrak29 wrote:
To add, you obviously are very knowledgeable of your vanishes, routines, and have done your homework. I would say, with your last video; which was commented on perfectly, shows that you need to have better routining. It is easy with sponge balls to want to do everything because it's so neat; I know, I've been there.

Scale your routine down and practice that one routine a million times, then post back again for review (if you want). Then go out and perform it to real people or you will be here forever showing us all sorts of vanishes (thanks for lesson btw :) ). Though its fun, you don't need to do them all in a routine. Pick your favorite or best and use it.

Here is an example to get you started:

Start out with your purse frame show its empty, produce one sponge. Produce a second sponge (either through purse frame or splitting the first sponge). Then
do a vanish and make two appear in the spectators hand. Then make three.

Short simple, sweet, and magical...but you won't know until you perform it to real
people.

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Well, the last video I posted didn't have any sound. I was actually talking while I was doing the rountine, but there's something wrong with my video card, camera, or my computer, as the quality is poor (despite buying a high end camera) and sometimes the sound turns off. It's a real pain. I wish I could have crisp video like other people.

And I wouldn't say I'm very knowledgeable about sponge sleights, I do ok. Unfortunately, my interest in magic has drained quite a bit, I just don't get that 'feeling' like a 'kid in a candy shop' when I go into a magic shop anymore. I don't get that feeling of amazement when I perform for people anymore. Now I'm practicing the watch steal but I just hate practicing it..my interest has focused to other hobbies. I still like to bring my sponges with me and perform for people.

I actually started out with sponge balls when I was a kid, maybe 11. I started a magic business with my dad and we would go to swap meets and I would perform there, the biggest seller? You guessed it, sponge balls. The kids loved it, but we found a problem. The kids who bought it didn't have the manuel dexterity and/or didn't want to put practice into it. I've been doing sponges for a long time, you'd think my vanishes would be a lot better, but I've been doing magic off and on for awhile now (with sponge magic).

I have performed for people in the past, often. Usually what I do (and obviously can't do this in the video) is produce 2 in their hand, using that as misdirection to grab another ball. Produce a ball from my pocket, put the '2' balls in their hand. Then put one in my hand and make the one ball travel to their hand, when they open they have 3 balls. From there I usually am one ahead so I do "2 in the hand, 1 in the pocket", and vanish at the end. I do sponge rabbits as well, those also get great reactions but I need to practice the final load on that better.

I hardly ever do coin magic in peformances, I make too many mistakes (even after practicing an effort for months) or, I don't have the coins on me.

One thing I am happy with is that I'm finally able to do the four coin roll down everytime. I use the split method, which Dan Watkins teaches on his site. It's a hard flourish and I love being able to do it now, I've always wanted to do it for a long time. It's a great accomplishment when you practice something for 4 months, and are finally able to do the flourish perfectly. In reality it took me over a few years (off and on) to get it down.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 28, 2009 09:21PM)
Hey guys, I made this video because I can't seem to get past the finger movement. My right index finger moves as its taking away the ball, pushing the finger up slightly. I can't seem to do this retention vanish (jay's) without this happening. Is it just from lack of practice or is this always going to happen? I made a video about it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8qy2y-h_hA
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Sep 29, 2009 11:03PM)
So I just looked at Jay Noblezada's video sponge again. I actually had talked to him through email, until he eventually said he didn't have time to reply to them or help me anymore.

In his teaching video, because the index and thumb fingers retract, they pop out as they come back into position (after the vanish), I have to say my vanish and his look identical regarding finger movement. I was thinking, perhaps I can move this by after I do the vanish, instead of bringing the index finger back to its original position, to simply hold the ball (or palm it) after the vanish using the other fingers, like a finger palm. What do you think? I think my vanish is just as good as his. During practicing it, despite multiple videos he watched, he said it wasn't 'good' yet.
Message: Posted by: Yekrats (Oct 2, 2009 02:48PM)
Wow, I have to say, looking at the latest video it certainly looks good to me. The finger movement you're talking about is almost totally imperceptible, and if you hadn't called notice to it, I would have never noticed it. I could barely detect it, and I was watching for it specifically.

The vanish is certainly good enough for laypeople, and suitable for part of a routine.

Keep up the good work!
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Oct 2, 2009 06:16PM)
[quote]
On 2009-10-02 15:48, Yekrats wrote:
Wow, I have to say, looking at the latest video it certainly looks good to me. The finger movement you're talking about is almost totally imperceptible, and if you hadn't called notice to it, I would have never noticed it. I could barely detect it, and I was watching for it specifically.

The vanish is certainly good enough for laypeople, and suitable for part of a routine.

Keep up the good work!
[/quote]

Thanks man, I'm going to continue to try improve it. I want to be able to fool other magicians with it, you know where I do the vanish (actually put the ball in the hand) and then do the vanish and have them not know the difference :P
Message: Posted by: The Big Q (Oct 3, 2009 09:56PM)
Slightly off the topic -

But why do you perform magic? I love to entertain (I actually do very little professional magic, but I am often on stage) and have never tried to 'out do' other performers...I've never seen the point. I have been very flattered when performing tricks for pros and have them be impressed - shocked - 'fooled' if you will, but I'd much prefer to see a delighted face of a child as they open there hand to find a bunch of sponge balls 'magically' appear there.

This is NOT meant to be a negative comment - I am simply intrigued as to why some people seem to be driven to fool other magicians...to my mind it sort of defeats the whole purpose of magic - to entertain.

As I've said before - I think your vanishes are fantastic. Now get out there and entertain people!
Message: Posted by: DaleTrueman (Oct 3, 2009 10:27PM)
Yes don't listen to the detractors. That's not to say don't listen to critics. Detractors just want to bring you down. Critics (at least good ones) make some sort of comment you should be able to learn from.

That guy making comments on your youtube page is just a dick, plain and simple.

I think your trick was very good. Can't see how it is down at all (from a novice point of view)
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Oct 5, 2009 12:02AM)
[quote]
On 2009-10-03 22:56, The Big Q wrote:
Slightly off the topic -

But why do you perform magic? I love to entertain (I actually do very little professional magic, but I am often on stage) and have never tried to 'out do' other performers...I've never seen the point. I have been very flattered when performing tricks for pros and have them be impressed - shocked - 'fooled' if you will, but I'd much prefer to see a delighted face of a child as they open there hand to find a bunch of sponge balls 'magically' appear there.

This is NOT meant to be a negative comment - I am simply intrigued as to why some people seem to be driven to fool other magicians...to my mind it sort of defeats the whole purpose of magic - to entertain.

As I've said before - I think your vanishes are fantastic. Now get out there and entertain people!
[/quote]

Just some people I envy alot. I wish I could be as good as say, FISM winner David Stone. Don't we all?

He's my favorite coin magician, he must've practiced at an early age...for winning it so young. I've been at the classic palm for 2 years and it's still not 'great', or anywhere near as good as his. I continue practicing it but wonder if he ever had problems with it.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Nov 22, 2009 11:15PM)
Hey guys just an update, the guy responded this comment to my profile (same guy):
yo as**** you left a comment on my channle I realy and really good magician classic palm lol I could do that for ever ago bobo coin book is the best and I got several spongeballs dvd I unsure you I am a really good magician I just like to go on youtube and talk about people its cool to me. I would not say I do it because I need to feel better I just do it because it makes me happy

----
How should I respond? Why doesn't this guy have any youtube videos of his magic? I wish I would've deleted my comment to him as I think now it was innpropriate but can't seem to.
Message: Posted by: The Futurist (Nov 22, 2009 11:36PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-23 00:15, Strange Tasting Fish Sticks wrote:
Hey guys just an update, the guy responded this comment to my profile (same guy):
yo as**** you left a comment on my channle I realy and really good magician classic palm lol I could do that for ever ago bobo coin book is the best and I got several spongeballs dvd I unsure you I am a really good magician I just like to go on youtube and talk about people its cool to me. I would not say I do it because I need to feel better I just do it because it makes me happy

----
How should I respond? Why doesn't this guy have any youtube videos of his magic? I wish I would've deleted my comment to him as I think now it was innpropriate but can't seem to.
[/quote]

I'd respond, if at all, by asking him to translate his comment into English!

But really, why should you feel the need to dignify such an asyntactic word-salad with any sort of reply? I'd cut them some slack if it wasn't their native tongue, but I feel that isn't the case here. I imagine they not only lack the discipline to construct legible sentences, but also to master any kind of retention or vanish. Your videos look pretty good to me BTW.
Message: Posted by: piraino (Nov 23, 2009 12:01AM)
It's a youtube troll... I wouldn't dignify it with a response. What's that old saying? "Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it." Something like that. This cartoon also comes to mind: http://xkcd.com/386/ :)
Message: Posted by: The Futurist (Nov 23, 2009 12:05AM)
Yeah, YouTube is absolutely notorious for being full of knobheads. Some of the comments I assume are written by real people, but I've read more coherent auto-generated spam emails! I never would have thought that there would be so many people who could actually fail the Turing test :D
Message: Posted by: piraino (Nov 23, 2009 06:39AM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-23 01:05, The Futurist wrote:
I never would have thought that there would be so many people who could actually fail the Turing test :D
[/quote]

Heh... never thought about it in those terms. That's hilarious. :)