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Topic: Moonspinner
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 16, 2009 02:52PM)
I'm starting a thread about the Moonspinner and just the Moonspinner.

This is to discuss:
[list]
[*] The Elite vs the original Moonspinner.
[*] The presentation of the effect as per the Tenyo instructions.
[*] Routines with the Moonspinner props other than the printed instructions by Tenyo.
[/list]
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 16, 2009 07:47PM)
First of all...
I hope it's okay to say that the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite Moonspinner[/url] comes with an ungimmicked paddle and a case that can be used to switch paddles. I'm not giving away any secrets by saying this because these items are mentioned on the comparison video viewable on the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Tenyo Elite site[/url].

[b]Review[/b]

This is a review of the props, not the routine effect or possible effects with the Moonspinner.

[b]Instruction Booklet[/b]

Like the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite Fortune Sticks[/url] the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite Moonspinner[/url] comes with an excellent instruction book. It is [i]not[/i] a folded piece of paper; instead you will receive a well written, well photographed, multi-paged, stapled book printed on glossy paper. The included patter is pretty good and it turns the trick into a full routine with a story.

[b]Case[/b]

As per the comparison video posted on the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Tenyo Elite web site[/url] the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite Moonspinner[/url] comes with a "handcrafted leather case" 01:08. I therefore assume that the case is leather as it does look and feel like leather. It is a nice case and it will hold two paddles and keep them scratch free. Also, the case will allow you to switch the gimmicked paddle for the non-gimmicked paddle. The case adds a touch of class to the presentation.

[b]Construction[/b]

The paddle is constructed from anodized aluminum, the design is laser etched white into the black aluminum. It has a nice weight to it, the original plastic paddle looked like a toy, this does not.

The handle is constructed with a raised section in the middle. This gives the handle a bevel which aids the magician in the performance of the slight.
The hypnotic-pie design on the original padle was simple a sticker, on the [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite[/url] version it is laser etched into the metal. This is fantastic beacuse it means the design is durable which means you can wash (or scrub) the paddle with soap and water if needed.

[b]Cost[/b]

The original plastic paddle is no longer made and they sell for big bucks on eBay. The last Moonspinner I saw on eBay sold for $60, so for $40 more you get the deluxe durable Moonspinner plus a case and an extra non-gimmicked paddle.

[b]Overall Assessment[/b]

As to the construction of the props I can see no negatives. You receive a classy, durable, and washable version of the this classic Tenyo trick.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 18, 2009 04:33PM)
[b]Presentation as a Paddle Trick[/b]

The Moonspinner is a paddle, but the Tenyo routine is not a classical, "paddle trick."

Here's the only video I could find on-line of a Moonspinner performance, the magician is performing a mixture of the Tenyo Moonspinner instructions and a, "paddle trick" presentation:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVmDqn1n8bM]CLICK HERE[/url]
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Nov 18, 2009 04:47PM)
Thanks for the link Kevin, the only issue with filming the moonspinner is that the resolution on most cameras are not high enough to capture the actual optical illusion that the circular motions provide in real life. So the video doesn't portray what an actual person will really see in real life, the other problem he had is that he used a brown coin which is not correct. The paddle design creates a grey or silver image of a coin appearing, he really should have been using a silver coin with the prop.

P.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 18, 2009 04:59PM)
Yes, although this video fairly smooth it does not show the best presentation of the Moonspinner effect. It would be really cool to see a video of someone performing the Moonspinner in a live situation for a couple spectators.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Nov 22, 2009 02:26PM)
Yeah, based on that video, this is NOT something I would be interested in purchasing.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Nov 22, 2009 10:39PM)
Bsears,

That's because it was A) not performed properly or in the proper context in which the prop was intended for, and B) the camera CANNOT pick up the optical illusion it creates, and C) it was not done with a silver coin. I thought I explained that, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

It reminds me of story, when myself, Jason, and Steve were all jaming with Tenyo items, and I brought up moonspinner. Jason said, ah that's not a very good trick, I saw it demoed once in magic shop, and I couldn't see the illusion. I then pulled it out and performed it for him, and wowed him. He told me that the guy in the shop obviously didn't do it right(moving the paddle to create the illusion) because he never saw it before, but after I showed it to him in person, he jumped right on the ban wagon of the trick. Its really a very cool illusion when seen properly and in person. Again the camera cannot pick up the optical illusion, so with out being able to see that, it just doesn't look right, and you might aswell just be doing a paddle effect. But trust me in person, the illusion looks awesome.

Also, I personally do the optical illusion a few times, by doing the circular moves, making the coin start to appear, and then slow it down, still showing the paddle empty, and I repeat this once or twice, and then finally on the second or third time, the coin eventaully appears fully, and its killer. Those that actually own this will know what I am refering to.

P.
Message: Posted by: Gilgamesh_The_Librarian (Nov 23, 2009 02:00PM)
Thanks for the link Kevin. I'd not seen this performed before.

As Peter says this isn't an ideal video but, with some clarification from Peter you can see how good it would be.

I could also see that a Sh***le pass may be a more effective way of transferring the coin from the paddle to your hand than the method in the video.

But there is enough there to show that this is a decent trick.
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Nov 23, 2009 02:18PM)
Bsears:

I haven't seen the vid but I can tell you that this is actually a very cool trick.

I used to sell "Moonspinner" in the magic shop I managed back in the early '90s and it was always a popular item.

This was a trick I wouldn't offer to beginners because it takes some intermediate skills to sell the effect to one's audience. I'll tell you, the illusion of the coin materializing on the surface of the paddle is very cool, then the illusion becomes real, then you take the coin off the paddle and hand it out for examination. It's unusual and effective.

The downside is that the paddle is not "organic", as in "an everyday object", but the part of my presentation (which I might have gotten right from the instructions) is that it's a device which creates optical illusions. "Here, watch..."

I also did it exactly as Peter described: "Also, I personally do the optical illusion a few times, by doing the circular moves, making the coin start to appear, and then slow it down, still showing the paddle empty, and I repeat this once or twice, and then finally on the second or third time, the coin eventaully appears fully, and its killer."

And, since I had to do it effectively enough to get others interested in buying and performing it, I took the time to work in front of a mirror to get the final taking of the coin down perfectly. Hey, the illusion of taking the coin off the surface looked great to me..............and I WAS DOING THE TAKING!
;)

So I'll give this a thumbs-up. And I'll add that I agree with all the positive comments which have been made here.

Regards,

Steve Hook
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 24, 2009 11:02PM)
That's odd...it was because of the video that I decided to purchase the Tenyo Elite Moonspinner.

By the way....
I end the trick by vanishing the paddle, then it reappears in my pocket and I can give it out for inspection.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Nov 25, 2009 07:00AM)
Hello all:

I just wanted to say that, Kevin, I think that is a great idea to do with the Moonspinner paddle! It's a very unique way to hand it out for inspection, and the size is perfect to do this----I never thought of this idea before.

Steve, Peter and I have been (reluctantly! :lol: ) saying that as good as our routines and ideas are that we include with our [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite[/url] editions, BETTER ones will always seem come from our purchasers! :lol:

Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Jason Palter
Paltergeist Unlimited / Tenyo Elite
(416) 410-5766
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 26, 2009 02:07PM)
What to call the paddle?

I call it, "my little magic skillet", it looks like a tiny little cast iron skillet.
[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:966skc5xD_KbvM:http://edrecipes.com/PS_Skillet.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.tenyoelite.com/images/moonspinner-thumb-sm.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: waso (Nov 27, 2009 10:57AM)
Why isn't there a video of a performance on the tenyo elite website? It seems the elitist approach goes so far as to restrict the target group to people only who already know the original tenyo item. I would love to see it in action before I buy it.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Gardner (Nov 28, 2009 03:02PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-27 11:57, waso wrote:
Why isn't there a video of a performance on the tenyo elite website? [/quote]

A video of the hypnotic Moonspinner illusion would be difficult to capture on camera, this is because the illusion is dependant on the the spectator's eyes inadvertently losing focus. The illusion actually takes place in the spectator's mind and not on the paddle it self.

However, it would be great to see a video of someone performing this for a spectator or two. The video could show the spectator's interaction with the magician and their reaction to the trick. It would also show the magician delivering the patter ect...

It's a great trick.
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Dec 15, 2009 06:21PM)
I finally watched that (Italian?) vid and now realize what a couple of the comments here were about.

What you're missing in the video is related to the first part of this demo, when the guy moves the paddle in a circular fashio. In the vid, you see a sort of shadow briefly in the center of the design.

What you see live is that shadow just about the size of a quarter, and it looks much more substantial. Also, there isn't as much of a difference visually between the shadow and the real coin on the surface.

It looks a lot better live!

- Steve H
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Dec 15, 2009 11:55PM)
[quote]
On 2009-12-15 19:21, Steve Hook wrote:

[b]It looks a lot better live![/b]
[/quote]

I agree! And so does the Blue Crystal. :)

These are optical illusions and can only be appreciated when seen live. A picture/ video can never do true justice.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Dec 16, 2009 02:55PM)
I just wanted to respond to this whole "optical illusion" item on our Elite (and even the original Tenyo) Moonspinner. To sort of quote Ed McMahon in response to Kevin, Steve's and Ustaad's comments: "You are COR-RECT, sirs...." lol

The optical illusion that will appear on the Moonspinner paddle is literally impossible to replicate on video. You of course can see the rest of the trick on camera, but just not the beginning optical illusion.

The best way to describe what happens is this: The circular movement of the paddle in the routine, causes your eyes to sort of "combine" the black and white parts on the hypnotic design to make gray/silver. Now because it is moving in a bit of a circular motion, that gray/silver ends up looking like a coin. So essentially what you see----as long as you keep up the movement----is a coin on the paddle. As soon as you stop moving the paddle, the illusion instantly disappears. It is incredible to see, and like most optical illusions, you're sort of left giggling to yourself at how the brain and the eyes miraculously work! So that is what you and your spectators will see when doing the trick. However.....

There is a problem. If you try to film this trick on video, the optical illusion does not work. That youtube video posted above is the best example of this dilemma. As you can see, the camera is incapable of picking up the illusion. When you watch the illusion in real life, your eyes do not flicker or see "frames" the way a video camera does. A video camera essentially breaks a moment in time down into various frames, but your eyes just see everything in "one" frame. That is why this part of the trick works when you watch it live; unfortunately video destroys the optical illusion.

We are in the process now of putting together some demo videos of the Fortune Sticks and Moonspinner, and hope to have them available to view very soon.

Please let us know if you have any questions or comments. These have been selling very well, and the feedback has just been amazing! Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Jason Palter
Paltergeist Unlimited / Tenyo Elite
(416) 410-5766
Message: Posted by: skc417 (Dec 16, 2009 07:25PM)
I totally agree that you won't be able to capture the moonspinner illusion on web based videos.

I have the original moonspinner and on the package it encourages you to pick up the package to see the illusion for yourself.

When moonspinner is performed correctly the coin looks like its "morphed" out of the paddle.
Message: Posted by: iugefu (Feb 10, 2010 09:28AM)
Can one use any coin currency? If so what size?
Message: Posted by: trainwing (Feb 10, 2010 01:57PM)
First of all, I love the quality, instruction book, case, and everything else about the Elite Moonspinner. There IS a video on the web site showing most of the routine (although in the video the presentation revolves around using the Moonspinner to help stop smoking; whereas in the written instuctions the routine revolves around using the device to help quit gambling.

As to the coin size - a quarter is recommended, but there is no reason you could not use a gold dollar. I primarily perform Gospel magic and am using a roughly quarter sized Christian mediallian with a cross on one side and the word "Faith" on the other side. I carry a couple extras for the routine I do. Im am not entirely happy with this particular use of the Moonspinner and am still searching for a stronger routine and I will eventually discover it. In any case, you can use any coin or medallion about the size of a quarter.

These props, along with the Fortune Sticks, are indestructable (if cared for). So, if you keep the original box and instructions, they should remain "collectable" for years to come.

I am really anxious for new Elite products to hit the market.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Jul 3, 2010 10:08PM)
I assume that the illusionary disc created is too small to pass off as a half-dollar?

Unfortunately this is my standard size for manipulation. Which is too bad since otherwise this seems like a great way to introduce a coin to start a routine ;(
Message: Posted by: en2oh (Jan 15, 2011 03:50PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-25 08:00, Jason Palter wrote:
Hello all:

I just wanted to say that, Kevin, I think that is a great idea to do with the Moonspinner paddle! It's a very unique way to hand it out for inspection, and the size is perfect to do this----I never thought of this idea before.

Steve, Peter and I have been (reluctantly! :lol: ) saying that as good as our routines and ideas are that we include with our [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Elite[/url] editions, BETTER ones will always seem come from our purchasers! :lol:

Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Jason Palter
Paltergeist Unlimited / Tenyo Elite
(416) 410-5766
[/quote]

Congratulations on a great release.
I can't say that I've searched the forums so if you have already done this, sorry, but have you folks taken time to describe the process you went through to get permission to release these Tenyo Golden Oldies? I know that I would be interested in seeing how you went about that (if you don't think that it would somehow conflict with your business plans)

As an aside, are you limited only to out of production effects or can you release any of the current Tenyo effects as "elite"?
Thanks
Doug
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Jan 16, 2011 06:50PM)
Hello all:

Sorry that there was no response earlier Cyberqat; I think we missed this thread by accident! Anyhow the disc illusion that is created is closer in size to that of a quarter. However (and I'm just brainstorming here): Maybe you could use the Moonspinner to introduce a quarter, and mention that you really wanted something larger, and then change it to a Half-Dollar yourself!......just a thought.

And en2oh, thank you for your kind words. There was a wonderful article written about our start-up history in last the 2009 March issue of MAGIC. We of course don't (and can't!) give away all of the process and secrets, but you could read about some stuff there. If you can't find the issue, please PM me and I can send you a PDF copy of the story so you can read it.

Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Jason Palter
Paltergeist Unlimited / Tenyo Elite
(416) 410-5766
Message: Posted by: superpixel (May 6, 2011 09:05PM)
Hank Lee is selling Moonspinner for $70 -- quite a bargain and it was just the right price for me to jump in. I'm duly impressed. While Moonspinner is a simple trick (compared to Blue Crystal, which hasn't been released yet), the metal construction is simply fantastic and the effect is worth the sturdy props and price.

Thanks to the Elite team for making this, I hope you follow through with more :)
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jul 26, 2011 10:27PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-18 17:33, Kevin Gardner wrote:
[b]Presentation as a Paddle Trick[/b]

The Moonspinner is a paddle, but the Tenyo routine is not a classical, "paddle trick."

Here's the only video I could find on-line of a Moonspinner performance, the magician is performing a mixture of the Tenyo Moonspinner instructions and a, "paddle trick" presentation:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVmDqn1n8bM]CLICK HERE[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks, always wanted to see it in action.
Message: Posted by: mrpiper (Aug 16, 2011 06:53PM)
WOW! I've had the original plastic moon spinner for nearly 20 years. It's one of my favorites and has held up very well. I would describe it as absolutely mint condition. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the new version. I wanted it but couldn't justify the cost when I have a perfectly good model. Then you blew me away with the idea that what I had was an antique? $60.00 on ebay? If anyone here wants a nearly new (20 year old) moonspinner in perfect condition, and is willing to shell out $60.00, just send the PM and it's all yours. I'm gonna upgrade!
Message: Posted by: wazowski (Feb 4, 2012 11:33AM)
I just received my Moonspinner Elite in the mail. I bought it because of the video - even though it doesn't capture the optical illusion. It's incredibly well made and will last a lifetime. I must say I hope the runs on the next products will be more than 50-100. I understand that 500 may have been too high, but I would like to be able to afford to still buy them and to be able get them. Can't wait for the next one!!!!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 12, 2012 02:20PM)
Glad you are enjoying it Wazowski
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Feb 13, 2012 11:11PM)
Hey Peter,

Tenyo Elite is really nice :)

I was wondering if the new illusions will have hard mini cases to store them in instead of bags, which can get banged up easier than a box can.

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 14, 2012 08:55AM)
Hi that'sCool, thanks for the commments! They currently do not come in bags, so I am a bit confused. They come in soft leather cases, that keep them very well protected. The items thus far are made from metal, so they are not easily broken if dropped or abused, so really all that needs protecting, is their finish. So we found the soft leather cases did an excellent job of protecting the props.
However we are changing our company format in the way we will be doing things, the biggest change being the quantity in which we produce the products, and In some instances, hard cases may be called for with certain non metal props, whereas in other instances the soft leather cases will continue to excell with other products.

Peter.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 14, 2012 08:41PM)
I'm hoping that'sCool didn't get a knock-off or an incomplete package second hand. A bag?
I thought the leather cases were great, and the storage boxes were more than enough to protect the contents.
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Aug 27, 2014 04:48PM)
Great illusion but if anyone is looking for one, I have decided to sell mine in the tricks for sale section at a pretty good price. Just fyi...
Message: Posted by: aechecop (Oct 5, 2014 06:53PM)
The whole presentation is top notch, from the outer box, the leather case, and the prop itself. Quality all the way.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 18, 2015 08:47PM)
I have what is hopefully a really good routine with "Moonspinner" in the Tenyo book. It requires sleight of hand, but allows you to very convincingly and magically produce three coins. Would look nice with the "Elite" version of the prop.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 19, 2015 09:46PM)
I'm looking forward to that. I've always thought these were compelling props (especially the Elite version) that could be explored further. They have that carnival kind of appeal...maybe a little bit over the top visually...almost a toy rather than a scientific experiment, but they are still quite mysterious and provocative looking.
Message: Posted by: ComposerCopenhagen (Apr 29, 2015 04:25AM)
In Denmark where I live we have only silver coins with a little hole in the middle. Would this destroy the illusion?
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (May 12, 2015 06:32AM)
Hello Composer, as long as the coin is silver it should not effect the illusion at all.