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Topic: When am I a magician?
Message: Posted by: WazMeister (Nov 20, 2009 03:03AM)
Just curious.. When can or does someone claim "I'm a Magician?"

Is it when you have proudly enterd a comp and won? Or is it performining for strangers and your then tagged with the name?
Or must you be a member of a club or the Magic Circle?

I'm curious, I have been praticing card magic for some good time now and know a few tricks.
I would not class myself as a magician for this, I feel I do not deserve such a great title.
I ussally say to people if it comes in conversation "I do magic tricks" or "I know some card tricks".

when can someone or even I, say "I'm a magician, would you like to see something?"

Rather than "I know a card trick, look.." as it seems more like a uncle doing his odd thing.

I think I do not class myself as a magician becase I only know a few tricks, I don't know too much history of magic and I mainly pratice only one or two tricks to perform, if I mess them up after claiming I'm a magician then I be down grading the title and making myself look a fool.


What do you think?]

Also, another topic to think about-
Why is it, mainly myself but I notice other beginners ussally start a trick off to family/friends or someone as
"I'm pretty new, so it may go wrong..."
or my one is and not jst as patter, but because I get paranoid "I been praticing this one for months, but it may go wrong . sorry if it does.."

I think I say it as it reassures me if it goes wrong, then I don't feel uncomfortable or tottally stupid.
I need to get out of that habit as it sets me up for failure Im guessing, what do you guys think?
I take your opinions greatly.


Thanks

Waz!
Message: Posted by: jhudsy (Nov 20, 2009 03:20AM)
Perhaps when you can make a trick out of a sequence of moves? (In which case I'm very far from that point)

Or when people first go ``how did he do that''?
Message: Posted by: DaleTrueman (Nov 20, 2009 03:50AM)
Maybe when others start to refer to you as a magician?

Truth is I really don't know.
Message: Posted by: Irfaan Kahan (Nov 20, 2009 04:14AM)
If you perform for yourself, family and friends - I would say that you are a hobbyist.

If you perform professionally, even part time, then you are a magician. Even you you are a lousy professional performer - you still are a lousy magician . . .

E.g. If you sing in front of a mirror only - then you're not a singer but a hobbyist or perhaps bored. If you sing professionally and earn an income from it, then you are a singer.

That's my opinion.
Message: Posted by: WazMeister (Nov 20, 2009 04:30AM)
Think your right Kahan,

If someone perform for strangers and do routines for people but not make any moey. Does that class someone as a magcian?
Message: Posted by: tomterm8 (Nov 20, 2009 04:44AM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-20 05:14, Irfaan Kahan wrote:
If you perform for yourself, family and friends - I would say that you are a hobbyist.

If you perform professionally, even part time, then you are a magician. Even you you are a lousy professional performer - you still are a lousy magician . . .

E.g. If you sing in front of a mirror only - then you're not a singer but a hobbyist or perhaps bored. If you sing professionally and earn an income from it, then you are a singer.

That's my opinion.
[/quote]

I disagree, there are some very good magicians who were amateurs. I don't think what defines a magician is whether he/she gets paid. I think what defines a magician is a mixture between the attitude of the person - whether they are dedicated to the art or not - and the attitude of the spectators. If you can really entertain a stranger with magic, then you are a magician.
Message: Posted by: Irfaan Kahan (Nov 20, 2009 05:19AM)
Point taken - however I think there's a difference between being a magician, and being able to do perform magic.

As a process engineer, I am pretty much able to fix any plumbing problem, and often have around the house. In fixing my plumbing I took care do do it right, to use the correct tools in the correct manner. However I am not a plumber - I'm just somebody who can "plumb"(LOL).

I feel that being able to do something doesn't automatically give you the title belonging to a specialist in that field. I.e, I CAN cook, but I'm NOT a cook.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Nov 20, 2009 05:45AM)
I would disagree, somewhat, Irfaan, as a more appropriate analogy might be for a high school kid who has a bit part in a play. He goes on stage and acts the part, says his lines and takes his bow. He is an actor. A magicain is one who goes through the motions to create a sense of magic/astonishment/awe, whatever in a spectator. Being a 'specialist' in the art is not a requirement. But I agree in sentiment, and perhasp we need a new word for one who takes being a magician to a higher level of profesionalism, but to doesn't work to fiddel with the meaning of the word itself.

As to the original post, as long as you place a disclaimer on what you do you are not a magician, as confidence and self-awareness must be part of the 'act'. If you do not think you are a magician you are not. Thy, "I will now present a mystery, a bit of magic for your entertainment," -- then do it. If you cannot say that then don't present the effect. One thing is certain, a 'magician' is NOT one who practices magic tricks on friends.
Message: Posted by: Irfaan Kahan (Nov 20, 2009 06:15AM)
Yes, good point. It's a problem of semantics and opinion.

Let's meet halfway: we're all partimeprofesshunilmagishunastonishers? :)
Message: Posted by: piraino (Nov 20, 2009 06:39AM)
The difference between "paid" and "not paid" is just the difference between "professional" and "amateur". So, I think it's more along the lines of what tomterm and funsway said - "magician-ness" is about attitude. Once you have the correct attitude towards performing magic, then your pay (or lack thereof) merely determines whether you are a professional magician or an amateur magician.
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Nov 20, 2009 09:58AM)
Take a look at the thread below. It may be funny or may not be but the one liners describe the average magicians that many are not aware of or will want to admit.

[url]http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=331079&forum=24&590[/url]

I'll chime in more on my next post.
Message: Posted by: KendallScot (Nov 20, 2009 12:58PM)
To the first part of the question, I feel it is whatever makes you comfortable. You can be a Magician, but not get paid so you would not be a "professional" Magician. My personal opinion is when you get to the point of skill when you truly amaze someone who has no idea how you did what you did, you are a Magician in their eyes.

As to the second part, never EVER say that you think you may mess up… 99.5% of the time, people have no idea what you are about to do, so they have no idea you just messed up. I have a lot of fun coming up with different "outs" for mess-ups so most of the time I use an out to cover for the mess-up. People are still amazed and think that whatever happened was part of the routine.

Here's a good exercise that I've come up with dozens of "outs" over the years: Have someone pick any card out of any deck, (you can do this yourself of course for practice) now have them shuffle the deck and now YOU come up with a way to find it. The more sleights and card effects you learn, the more “outs” you come up with. It's a lot harder that it sounds, but "miracles" have been invented this way.

Above all else, relax and have fun!
Message: Posted by: David Waldorf (Nov 20, 2009 05:55PM)
I checked a couple of different dictionaries/encyclopedias, and here’s what I got.
Magician:
One who practices magic (Don’t we all?) :)
One skilled in magic
One who performs magic

In today’s world, I think the term has come to mean “Professional Magician”, but for me a magician is “one who does magic.”

By the way, the word magic came from Latin “Magus”—or member of the priestly orders of Media and Persia. The word magic shares roots with magister, magisterial, magisterial, magistrate etc.

I hope I didn’t bore you with my English lesson. ;) All interesting stuff to me.
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Nov 20, 2009 10:10PM)
One can only be seen as a magician from the perspective of the lay public. And from that perspective and belief we are judged. If one is only performing tricks and the audience can see through the trickery involved would they still consider the trickster a magician? This is food for thought and has nothing to do with whether one performs full or part time.
Message: Posted by: ico (Nov 20, 2009 10:48PM)
Exactly, it's not when you call yourself a magician, it's when others call you one.
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Nov 23, 2009 01:49PM)
Payment really lies along a different axis than magus/non-magus. (I’m thinking about Stephen Covey and his chart for “important” versus “urgent”. Although often confused, they’re really two different attributes.)

Pro vs amateur doesn’t reflect whether you’re a magician or not (as someone stated above.) Then there’s the “semi-pro”, who gets paid gigs, but is far from being able to support himself through performance alone.

On that other axis, there’s probably a midway point between hobbyist and headliner that includes people who perform at school assemblies and church picnics but aren’t quite ready for the Magic Castle just yet.

I don’t usually call myself a magician, although I often get introduced that way. When I’m the initiator, it’s usually with a conversational line such as “Have you ever noticed…” or “Did you ever wonder…” and then just do the deed. Afterwards, when they’re calling their friends over, it’s “He’s a magician”.

My all time favorite was from a cute little air-head who gushed “Oh, you’re MAGIC!!!” After that, I don’t worry too much about the titles :)
Message: Posted by: DN777 (Nov 23, 2009 02:35PM)
You're a good magician when doubt begins to form in the spectator's mind as to whether or not you have real powers. You're a bad magician if the kids catch fire during your floating candle routine. Both will be remembered as magicians! Just something to think about.
Message: Posted by: Ed_Millis (Nov 23, 2009 02:45PM)
I think you cross the line when you finally decide "I want to be a magician", and you let that take you out of the realm of simply doing tricks. If all you want to be is someone who does tricks, that's fine - have fun!!

But when you decide "I will become a magician", you take on a whole new mindset. Maybe nothing much changes in your performance at all. For me, it made me throw out several things I used to do, because they belonged to "the guy who does tricks" who doesn't live here any more.

Ed
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Nov 23, 2009 04:32PM)
I agree that when others call you a Magician you are.

[quote][/quote]


[quote]when can someone or even I, say "I'm a magician, would you like to see something?"
Rather than "I know a card trick, look.." as it seems more like a uncle doing his odd thing.

I think I do not class myself as a magician becase I only know a few tricks, I don't know too much history of magic and I mainly pratice only one or two tricks to perform, if I mess them up after claiming I'm a magician then I be down grading the title and making myself look a fool. [/quote]

Unless you're doing a gig it's probably better to just ask if they want to see something cool.

As for the second part..
I see no problem in saying that the trick that you are about to do is a new one when performing for family and friends.

Take it slow.
Make them like you.
Entertain.

Good luck..
Message: Posted by: Floyd Collins (Nov 23, 2009 07:59PM)
One is not instantly a magician unless you’re a kid in a kids show and the person performing says you’re now a magician hehe. I prefer to call myself a Magician, although I practice in the magical art of comedy mind reading and magic I still consider myself a magician first and foremost. The main thing is this, when you put on your character and perform are you performing the part of a magician or something ells.

My dad was a big time poker player, and he knew quite a few card trick, and movies I would still call him a poker player over everything because that is what he was best known for his card tricks were just for the amusement of others but he was no performer he was into cards for the money. So you could say my dad played the role of a poker player who does magic tricks for kicks.
Why not give yourself something different, why not call yourself a Mystery Performer? Key word is performer.

As for messing up, as stated above the difference between a good magician and a poor magician, one knows their limits and two knowing how to recover when things go wrong. Unfortunately some of us have to learn this as we go, I am included as one of those who has messed up with no out and had to improvise. Once in the middle of a show my jumbo cards stuck together because of the humidity, I went to turn over the ACE and out Popped the King my face turned red and I was in hot water. I thought to myself there are one of two things I can do, one run and never look back or two pull the king out and say, “Now do you mind we are trying to do a card trick here”, and toss it on the floor exposing the Ace. I did the later and the applause was just as good as if I did the whole thing successfully. Focus on entertaining and not on titles of who you are but more so what you can do given the opportunity.

I however would never say I am trying something new, I would say if you like Magic your going to love this one. Be positive hold your head up, and do your magic! If things go wrong, you will find something to say. Wost case you may have to say, "you know when that works it is going to be amazing" and get a the laugh value out of it and move on to your next feat of magic. Keep going!! and practice till you can do it blind folded. The rest will take care of itself.

Cheers
Floyd
Message: Posted by: Tony Miller (Nov 24, 2009 11:03PM)
When you start learning your second trick.

Discovering your first trick sparked your interest.
Learning it encouraged your interest.
Being excited enought to begin learning another trick confirmed your interest.
Message: Posted by: coolini (Nov 25, 2009 04:53AM)
A magician is similar to a dancer, when your partner enjoy dancing with you, you are a good dancer and pple would like to dance with you...
therefore, when pple enjoy watching you perform, you deserve the magician title...
Message: Posted by: Mind (Nov 25, 2009 07:54AM)
I only started to view myself as a mentalist when people started to believe the claims I make, and not just brush it aside as a trick.

It took a long while for me to get there, but once people became convinced I could 'read minds' then I knew I was on the right path.
Message: Posted by: aitchy (Nov 25, 2009 07:46PM)
Any kid with a Svengali deck can call himself a magician

- but its when you think -to the very best of your ability about how to entertain and creat magic moments (rather than knowing a few tricks) that you become a magician.

weather anyone but the very greats - makes it is another question
Message: Posted by: huruey (Nov 25, 2009 11:29PM)
The way I see it, you become a magician when you stop simply doing tricks and start doing magic.

It's more a state of mind - it's how you perceive what you do.

Joe
Message: Posted by: cheereos (Nov 26, 2009 11:16AM)
In my opinion, if you are able to entertain total strangers with magic, you can call yourself a magician, albeit not professional, unless you're paid.

Magic is afterall, an entertainment. If you can entertain, I feel you can call yourself a magician.
Message: Posted by: Alex Palombo (Nov 26, 2009 01:42PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-20 05:14, Irfaan Kahan wrote:
If you perform for yourself, family and friends - I would say that you are a hobbyist.

If you perform professionally, even part time, then you are a magician. Even you you are a lousy professional performer - you still are a lousy magician . . .

E.g. If you sing in front of a mirror only - then you're not a singer but a hobbyist or perhaps bored. If you sing professionally and earn an income from it, then you are a singer.

That's my opinion.
[/quote]
I agree
Message: Posted by: stijnhommes (Nov 27, 2009 05:09AM)
Unfortunately, there are a lot of wannabes that call themselves magicians when they're really not. Personally, I don't let money enter the equation. Non-paid performers can be solid magicians, be it amateur ones (and I'm not using amateur in the derogatory sense commonly attached to the word).

I consider someone a true magician if:
1) The perform to strangers not just over the internet, but in person.
2) The can entertain a lay audience.
3) If they know a variety of tricks that is enough to keep that audience entertained for at least 4 well practiced effects.
4) Exception: people who design effects that allow other performers to entertain an audience without performing themselves are also magicians because they have the ability to create workable effects.