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Topic: Fantasio vanishing Cane
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Jan 28, 2010 09:17AM)
Hi guys,

I come to you since I have a little problem with my brand new Fantasio vanishing Cane. It disappears very slow.
Could anybody please help me and tell me how to get it faster ?
I don't really want to change my body position or cane position in the hands as I think it doesn't look as good as if you're facing the audience with the cane visible for them.
Since I got this cane I always kept it in his original box.

Thank you very much for your help in advance.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Jan 28, 2010 09:19AM)
How slow is it? Make a video tape of you vanishing it and watch the tape. It may not be as slow as you think.

Also, do you have a silk or silks inside? If so, change these to diamond cut silks. The appearance of the silks tends to mask the vanishing of the cane.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Jan 28, 2010 09:24AM)
Jim the cane is empty and it's so slow that my wife even sees what's happening.

Do I need to try to stock the cane reversed for a while before using it ?

This it not suggested in Fantasio's book of candels & canes.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: markis (Jan 28, 2010 10:48AM)
From my humble experince vanishing canes of any type are much slower than an appearing cane. I have a metal vanishing cane and even after I apply WD-40 or silicon spray your going to see it collapse if its not changing into something else or not covered.
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Jan 28, 2010 11:00AM)
Markis,

Years ago I used a german metal cane to vanish and I never had problems with the speed. I had more problems on the security issue. In my beginning years of magic I used to cut quiet often my fingers.
Months of "bleeding" training experience helped me to get finally through it.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Jan 28, 2010 11:02AM)
Try slanting the cane slightly downward during the vanish. It helps.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 28, 2010 11:02AM)
If the speed of the cane is too visible for your tastes, you can either vanish it with it perpendicular to the audience, or use a cane silk. Which will look like the cane has melted into a silk.
The black on black will hide the vanish.
Message: Posted by: markis (Jan 28, 2010 11:08AM)
It seems you may be expecting too much from the cane. Unfortunately it wonít vanish into nothingness in a blink of an eye without some sort of cover. The vanishing candles are much quicker and even our hero Lance uses a bit of flash paper or puff of smoke to cover the vanish.
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Jan 28, 2010 11:17AM)
Thank you everybody for your tips. I'll try them all out, combining maybe a few things and see what's working best.

Thank you very much again for your insider tips.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Jan 28, 2010 11:31AM)
Oliver, how exactly is the cane being used? By that I mean, is the cane transforming to a silk, a streamer...? What size silk or streamer? The size of the item (both the width and the length) that the cane transforms to could be affecting the speed with which it "vanishes." Other factors that may affect the vanish is whether the cane is relatively stationary as it vanishes/transforms or whether there is a tossing motion just as the transformation is effected. An upward tossing motion helps disguise the horizontal vanish motion. I also find that an important factor is the method of folding the streamer prior to expanding the cane. I expand the cane without folding the streamer at all, and then use a very thin dowel rod to push the remaining length of the streamer loosely (not tightly) into the cane.

The first time I saw the vanishing cane effect, it was the method Fred Kaps used--rolling the cane into a sheet of newspaper whence it then vanishes. It may not be as "spectacular" as a visual, no-cover vanish... but it still fooled--and entertained--people.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 28, 2010 01:16PM)
First time I ever saw a vanishing cane was used by Dick Zimmerman. He held a cane in one hand and a silk in the other and they instantly changed places. That kind of misdirection is hard to beat! :)
Message: Posted by: stuartmagic (Jan 28, 2010 01:52PM)
Hello Oliver,

I hope you don't mind me asking this question, and really it is the most important one before you start thinking about what may or may not be correct with your handling technique and that is " Did you purchase the cane from a reputable dealer ?".

Sadly, especially nowadays, there are many rip offs and cheap copies of everything and anything and magic props do not escape this. I attended FISM last year in China and you could buy "Fantasio" canes for about $2 !! They were crap ! and so was the other rubbish blatent copies of tricks that this certain dealer and other similar sellers were selling and worse of all being allowed to sell.

I use Fantasio canes a lot and I have never had any problems with them. I purchase mine from Fantasio himself.

Just because it might say "Fantasio" on the box does not mean it is. I was recently approached by a magician in the UK who commented on a similar problem he was having. Upon close inspection of his so called "Fantasio" cane alongside the ones I use you could see the slight difference, but even more so when he showed me how it vanished which, yes, it was s....l....o....w !

Stuart Brown

British Magical Champion
Of Stage Manipulation 2007

http://www.themagicofstuartbrown.co.uk
http://www.stuartmagic.co.uk
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Jan 28, 2010 02:24PM)
Stuart is right. Today you can buy a vanishing cane for 2 $ at some shops in China. If you are sure that you have original Fantasio vanishing cane try to expand cane in opposite direction pushing white tip thru the coil for ca 40 cm. Than use some masking tape or rubber band to keep it in that position and put it in very hot (almost boiling water). After water gets cooled your cane will be much faster but you will have a problem to keep the tip in your hand when cane collapses. I used an idea by James Holmes to make a wire stopper. It is explained in Fantasio`s book.

Hope this helps

Bojan
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Jan 28, 2010 04:07PM)
Alright guys,

I'm back. Here the answers to your questions :

Amado : I've tried it out just with the cane (no silk or streamer) and I've tried it with a silk. I've used already some up - and downwards motion to "disguise" the vanish. But it's still slow to me. Of course it's even slower if it changes to a silk.

Michael : I've never seen this one. THis must have been looked like real magic.

Stuart : I understand very well your question and as I'm very concerned on the ethical part in magic I try as best as I can to get the original products from a magic dealer I can trust. Concerning the Fantasio Cane I purchased, it must be a an original since the top knop of the cane has his logo on it. I mean, I hope so..., because I've paid aswell the price for it.

Bojan : Thanks for your tip. I'll try your method aswell. What do you mean by having problems to keep the tip in your hand. Due to the hot water ??? LOL (please PM if needed). I didn't see this in his book.

Well, thank you again for all your support on this. It's great to get some help and to give some aswell. That's why I like the cafť.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: Regan (Jan 28, 2010 06:06PM)
[quote]
On 2010-01-28 10:24, Oliver Ross wrote:
Jim the cane is empty and it's so slow that my wife even sees what's happening.

Do I need to try to stock the cane reversed for a while before using it ?

This it not suggested in Fantasio's book of candels & canes.

Oliver.
[/quote]

You mentioned that the cane had been stored in it's box. I assume that is in the closed (vanished) position. That is the correct way to store a vanishing cane.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 28, 2010 09:39PM)
Something just came to mind that is more an issue with the Fantasio canes than with the metal canes:

When they are extended, it is often necessary to tighten the coils to keep the cane quite rigid. Sometimes, it is necessary so the cap will fit. This tightness will quite often slow the cane down... even a brand new one.

Just before releasing, roll both wrists in the necessary direction to loosen the coils, and then immediately release the cap end. See what happens. There will be a point between too tight and too loose. Play until you find that.
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Jan 29, 2010 03:18AM)
Oliver I mean that cane after boiling will not collapse to a coil 6 cm high as when you bought it. If you don`t make wire stopper cane will extend for ca. 20 cm in reverse direction than usual. What book by Fantasio do you have ? James Hodges Cane to silk was in Fantasio book vol.4.
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Jan 29, 2010 12:47PM)
Thanks Bojan,

I've got Fantasio's own book. It must be his first one, since it has no volume.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Feb 26, 2010 05:14PM)
I personally preffure the german made black and white metel appearing and vanishing canes over fantasio. The german vanishing canes are superb and sooooo much faster than fantasio. ALthough when it comes to candles, nothing beats fantasio
just my humble oppinion
Eli
Message: Posted by: NickDiffatte (Mar 25, 2010 08:38PM)
I would stay away from metal canes as much as possible for the horror stories I have heard about people getting bad bad bad cuts on their hands. Not to step on anyones toes just my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 26, 2010 12:26PM)
[quote]
On 2010-01-29 13:47, Oliver Ross wrote:
Thanks Bojan,

I've got Fantasio's own book. It must be his first one, since it has no volume.

Oliver.
[/quote]

This is not the book refered to, David Ginn published 5 Paper bound booklets on Fantasio Candle and Cane Magic. I don't know if they are available still from David Ginn, you have to seek the 2nd hand market.
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Mar 27, 2010 06:59PM)
Micheal has it right.

After the cap is on. Twist the ferrule clockwise (Test - start with 270 degrees to 720 degrees- which is two full turns).The action of tighting the bottom loosens the upper 3/4 of the cane allowing it to move faster.

Note: Overtightning the ferrule will allow the top to speed along but then, there is a traffic jam at the bottom. Get to know your cane and eventually you can pick up any cane and give it that little twist and know how much to twist it, just by feel.
Message: Posted by: imanipulatestuff (Aug 4, 2011 10:59AM)
I know this forum is pretty dead by now, but I thought I'd post a video to help a little for even the more experienced viewers. This is fantasio himself performing the vanishing cane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6AUzL4VUVM go to about 3 minutes to see the vanish
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 4, 2011 03:05PM)
Who makes a "cane silk?" What are their typical dimensions? Thanks.

Jim
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Aug 4, 2011 03:24PM)
Rice sold one for years...maybe still available?
I think P and A offered one for a while.

James...they are really not that hard to make. You could start with a white diamond silk of about 24" in length and then wrap the tip in a piece of saran wrap (a latex balloon is better) and the part inside the balloon will remain white if you seal the balloon's opening with a tight thread or rubber band. then the bulk of the silk is dipped into a very hot pan of RIT black dye until the color is one shade DARKER than you prefer. The entire silk is rinsed in cold water to set the color and when the water runs clear...remove the ballon and rubber bands...and you'll have a cane silk.

Some 'experts' recommend sewing a 'bb' or small ball bearing (Perhaps a tiny metal button?) to the end of the silk so that when the silk is twirled...the centrifugal force causes the silk to take the extended shape of the emerging cane.

Regards-
Jneal
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Aug 5, 2011 04:06AM)
[quote]
On 2011-08-04 16:05, JamesinLA wrote:
Who makes a "cane silk?" What are their typical dimensions? Thanks.

Jim
[/quote]

Rice's Cane to Silk Silk here:
http://www.silkkingmagic.com/Rice's%20Cane%20to%20Silk.htm
Message: Posted by: Mattia (Aug 11, 2011 05:36AM)
Fantasio explains how to repair canes that vanish too slow in his book "my canes and candles". Close completely the cane,roll it up completely on itself and put a rubber band on it to let it stay close. Then apply heat on the closed cane with an hair dryer for 5-6 minutes and do not remove the rubber band for 1-2 weeks. After that time open it again and you will see the difference in vanishing speed,
Message: Posted by: magicians (Aug 11, 2011 08:18AM)
One other thig. You must clean the cane. By taking ome water and dishliquid soap. Actually allow the cane to unroll as you clean it.
Let it rinse.
Then after drying, spray it with silicon spray.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Aug 11, 2011 09:40AM)
Magicians gives the best advice here, you cannot underestimate the importance of having a clean cane.
Message: Posted by: iwillfoolu (Aug 13, 2011 03:59PM)
Clean the cane with Windex. Let it dry thoroughly. Also, I store my vanishing canes expanded backwards. This seems to help.
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Aug 13, 2011 05:59PM)
Do not use WD-40 on a plastic cane. It will slowly destroy it.
Message: Posted by: DJ Trix (Aug 14, 2011 08:03PM)
If you want the best available I have a mint condition Harakhan vanishing cane for sale, brand new. It is a collectors item, but if used will last you a lifetime.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Aug 14, 2011 11:08PM)
Well, I have an Appearing and Vanishing Canes for sale that Tannen made called the "Superior". They are still in the boxes I purchased them in and are new. They are a deep beautiful Blueish color in bright light. The Vanishing Cane has a unique round aluminum cap and the Appearing has a silver metal stip attacned for the cap. If you have the Romaine DVD on Card and Billiard Ball manipulation he uses the Vanishing in his act. Tannen's has sold out of these and looks like they will not be made again.
Message: Posted by: Mattia (Aug 21, 2011 07:23AM)
If You type http://www.fantasio.com and You click on "helpful tips" directly from the menu on the main page, You will see a page where fantasio explains how to properly care of appearing/vanishing canes and candles
Message: Posted by: LaurensMalter (Sep 3, 2011 11:52AM)
What bothers me most about the Fantasio cane (appearing cane) is the sound: GRRRRRTTTT! The music needs to be quite loud for the people on the first row not to hear it, I share your opinion on the vanishing cane, to me, it seems very slow aswell..
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Sep 3, 2011 11:59AM)
You are not thinking as the audience would. When they hear that sound, itís the equivalent to adding a flash of light before producing something. The swooshing sound startles them. Iíve seen the look many times from spectators when I have produce a metal or plastic appearing cane. Itís so fast and the sound makes it seem magical. You have to just pause for a few seconds to get the effect to sink in.

Donít ruin that magic moment by covering it up. Take advantage of it.
Message: Posted by: LaurensMalter (Sep 4, 2011 07:41PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 12:59, mtpascoe wrote:
You are not thinking as the audience would. When they hear that sound, itís the equivalent to adding a flash of light before producing something. The swooshing sound startles them. Iíve seen the look many times from spectators when I have produce a metal or plastic appearing cane. Itís so fast and the sound makes it seem magical. You have to just pause for a few seconds to get the effect to sink in.

Donít ruin that magic moment by covering it up. Take advantage of it.
[/quote]
I see what you mean, but to me personally, the sound of that cane is the super obvious sound of something sliding open very fast.. I have the same thing with Fantasio candles, when I vanish the candle, I can hear the sound, offcourse the audience can't (Godd, I hope they can't!) But that just makes me nervous, deep down inside I know no one noticed, but I did! Haha
'Akward Moments On Stage, Volume 1' Ladies & Gentlemen!
Message: Posted by: mrpiper (Sep 19, 2011 07:09PM)
[quote]
On 2010-01-28 12:02, magicians wrote:
If the speed of the cane is too visible for your tastes, you can either vanish it with it perpendicular to the audience, or use a cane silk. Which will look like the cane has melted into a silk.
The black on black will hide the vanish.
[/quote]

Thank you Ian. I know this is an old post, but when I found it my first thought was, "I can't believe I have never thought of that!" What a great idea. The black (or white or green or red) vanishing cane turning into a silk of the same color is a great and fun idea.