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Topic: American Hell Riders or Idiots ?
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 3, 2010 11:40AM)
A mate toured with the "Ben Nagel" Hell Riders Wall of Death see http://www.americanhellriders.com Before any further comment regarding this show does anyone know of or about the set up ?

The second question,,,are any of the rides / shows in the US subject to regulation controls ie >> Health & Safety, Stress Tests etc ?

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Fitz (Feb 3, 2010 03:37PM)
You probably saw this already but at this link you will find a few details about the setup. http://www.americanhellriders.com/about.php

Fitz
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Feb 3, 2010 04:44PM)
How did your friend like his time with them?
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 3, 2010 05:47PM)
They were at the IISA (Gibtown Club) "Bike Week"....I watched them set up while I talked to my Buddies who were tearin down the Big Top from the IISA charity Circus....Later that day...they all were in the Club watchin Football...after the Packers got beat in a thriller..I went home...I wanted to see them perform...but never made it back...There setup is aluminum and Wood.....
Message: Posted by: Stephon (Feb 3, 2010 07:54PM)
I know Tyler Fyre and Thrill Kill Jill know a Wall of Death team, but I'm not sure if it's these folks.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 4, 2010 04:02AM)
Well Ken pulled out early on them as they were completly off their heads. The owner come builder come sponsor of the Wall must have his brains up his @ss, his only interest in anything was $$$$ and he didn`t care how many peoples lives he put on the line to make them.

1) The wall was only 20ft across.

2) Made out of the wrong timber.

3) The sections were not shaped or dove tailed also the cross spars to each section were free hanging.

4) The run up sections (Which take you up onto the wall) Were slatted (The wrong way) Gaps with daylight showing through !

5) The shape of the wall was not round,,,was compared to a 50p piece shape with about 20 sides.

6) There were no top side sheets (According to them they cost too much) So if it rained (It did) The riders got wet !!! Unbelievable.

7) There should always be movement within the dome, but in this case a sway of 12" !!! Amazing.

8) A USA Wall useing Jap bikes !! He didn`t know about Indians or the reason for their preferance. So guess what,,,the bikes were altered by dropping the suspension down to give a lower centre of gravity,,,hahaha when the riders were on them their knees were up under their chins hahaha what a tw@t.

9) Repairs on the bikes were made inside the wall !! So the track would get covered with oil etc !!! Several of them fell off hahahs and wondered why.

10) With the promise of a decent bunk he found on arrival a box 4ft 6inches by 7ft as his living accomedation, designed so if anyone was useing the shower (Next to kens bed !) He couldn't open the door to his box,,hahaha.

Well theres more but I will not bore you with it here.

Now pray tell,,,are there no registered designs and laws to follow, no inspections, no test certificates, no safety certificates, no ruling body to oversee the fairgrounds, no ADIPS, SURPS, Showmans Guild, Third party Insurance how the hell could that work.

The pics are like a nightmare.

The vids are even better than Mr Bean.

Cant wait for your comments hahaha Or was it all an American Dream ?

Ken who has just wet his Kacks.
Message: Posted by: Chance (Feb 4, 2010 07:10AM)
Wow, Ken, tell us who you REALLY feel! LOL!
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 4, 2010 08:47AM)
I don't see any problem...other than the Propeitor spoils his help!....
Message: Posted by: Cholly, by golly! (Feb 4, 2010 01:20PM)
Just watched those videos...

It all seems so pointless without the lion in the sidecar.
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Feb 4, 2010 01:39PM)
They do call themselves Hellriders......not Heavenriders.....the guy says that when he went to build one, no one would tell him how.....so he just did it. Sounds like he'll have to figure it out as he goes. I like that this show exists though. As you know, "safety" comes first, but "making money" battles for that position all the time. Did your friend get hurt???
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 4, 2010 01:54PM)
No he didn't get hurt but two of the others did and have since left. Regards money, with the huge numbers expected they never ran black at all and on many occassions there were more in the pit than the balcony.

He saw a picture in a mag of a wall, took measurements from this pic and went to work making one !!!

Where would the speckies stand if any of them got hurt ? How could such a Heath Robinson set up get Insurance ?

The Walls in the UK run black nearly all of the time.

Ken has been on the wall for thirty + years.

Is this a normal way for the showmen of the USA to work ?

To ride a propper wall is like a ride over rough concrete so just try to imagine what it would be like on that abortion.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: handa (Feb 4, 2010 02:49PM)
Amusements/attractions are regulated state-to-state. Lucky me, I get to teach at the seminars in PA. As far as what we have to follow, all amusements operating within our boarders are required to be registered by the state, with trip itineraries filed for each move or on a monthly basis. Attractions are inspected in-house daily (books/logs may be requested by a state-employed rep at any time), and prior to each setup or monthly by a registered and licensed inspector.

The inspector can be an "independent" or somebody trained in-house. Inspectors are required to take classes and a test in relation to their specific area of expertese, and renew every three years by completing a certain number of hours related to their license.

An important part of the process is the filing of appropriate insurance paperwork, including the naming of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as a protected party within the clause.

As far as specifics regarding demo derbies and the WOD, I do not know what additional requirements exist in PA, but the person who organizes the safety seminars comes from a family of demo derby/motordrome organizers and performers. I'm sure that he knows the other details as his father is only recently retired from the business.

I can tell you in PA, fly-by-night operations and those who do not show appropriate safety precautions and inspection paperwork are not permitted to operate legally. They are pretty aggressive in hunting down non-compliant parties as well.

I can't say how the process works in any other state. Some have less strict licensing/regulation than others. I can only speak in relation to amusement devices that are contracted to work within our own borders.

Chris
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 03:41AM)
Thanx for that Chris.

So I gather that the quality of safety etc can vary from State to State, this would open up the door to the DIY Showman with no recognized levels in place. What a crazy way of inspectorate.

Regards the Insurance angle I guess the same would apply with a shopping around attitude until you got what you wanted,,,crazy.

In some respects I wish it was so lax over here but on the other hand would worry and have an eagle eye out for the punters all the time. Think I would go with a peaceful life myself.

Such a set up over here would never see the light of day,,,even the other operators would shop them,,one bad egg reflects on all and its a tough enough job at the best of times.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Cholly, by golly! (Feb 5, 2010 09:14AM)
In a lot of states, this type of set-up probably wouldn't be considered an amusement or an attraction.

1. It's not a ride.

2. No roof means it's technically not even a building.

The wall and cycles would be considered props in a show.

Just like a juggler's clubs or a magician's blade box.

As far as I know most states don't inspect props.

Am I way off here?
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 09:15AM)
I believe what Handa is refering to is Rides, and or Circuses...not Individual acts...The Motor Drome is a act..However, a Inspector will inspect the steps, public Veiwing area ect...The Problem with the United States is the Goverment wants to regulate EVERY aspect of our lifes....I fully understand "Public Safety"...If your freind didn't like the Bikes, wall and living conditions, "What the Hell does he need the US goverment for?"...He should of said "Sorry, not what I signed up for!...Done playin!"...End of story...
Message: Posted by: handa (Feb 5, 2010 10:01AM)
This is my understanding as well. Individual acts do not fall under this type of state regulation in PA. Guest-holding structures and mechanical equipment definitely fall under inspection standards in PA.

There are some loopholes that still exist, but I can't see any temporary structure as attention-drawing as a motor drome arena operating without The PA Department of Agriculture (governs amusement concerns due to the number of county/grange fairs) and possibly the Department of Public Works (employee safety issues) wanting to have a say in the safe operation of the structure.

Ken, yes it does vary state-to-state and even municipality-by-municipality. Local fire marshals have immediate authority over any crowd-generating event, and can often be more difficult to deal with than those who work at the State level, depending upon local experience and sentiment.

On a side note, we've worked to be proactive with our governing body, which is why I teach at the safety seminars. We've found that when we've really need friends on that level, they are much more cooperative when they know that you are willing to be proactive with what they feel to be the right thing. It's a pretty cool ego boost when the top person is on the phone with you and says, "Hold on, Chris. I'm typing this in an email to the Governor while we are speaking."
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 10:49AM)
Ken was contacted and asked to guest for a season, all info which could be gained via internet, emails etc was gathered but the guy promised this that and the other and was basicaly a BS liar.

For him to look at the gear and head back home would not have been an option at the time and Ken was prepared to give it a try,,,which he did. The faults were so basic it beggars belief,,are there no other walls in the US, we have around half a dozen which travel and all are governed by the Guild regs.

You only have to look at the site to see what a small wall (Capacity crowds would bring in very low income),, but with a guestimate of 100,000 heads a shot one would have to experience it to understand.

From what I can gather from replies here this is the norm for the US,, I think if a showman with backing took the trouble to visit walls in the UK and Germany he would garner enough knowledge to wipe the floor with any other wall working your side of the pond,,he would clean up completly and retire a rich man.

Money is not the most important thing in the biz if it was I would have got out years ago, but a showman who has no pride in his work will not only kill it for himself but get all in the biz a bad name. Such shows should be burnt out.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: handa (Feb 5, 2010 11:03AM)
Maybe that's why I've never seen a WOD at fairs I've visited, but until scrap metal increased significantly in value, there were Demo Derbies at literally every event with grounds and a grandstand.

I'm fascinated with the images I've seen of the ones on your side of the pond, Ken. It looks like an amazing setup and there's just something cool and nostalgic about the wooden track and the Indian motorcycles.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement.

Chris
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Feb 5, 2010 11:13AM)
Send some links Ken....I would like to see the shows that you are talking about. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 11:56AM)
These from memory so I hope they are correct, apologies if not.

http://www.wall-of-death.co.uk/ Ken Fox wall also shows manufacture !!

http://www.originalwallofdeath.co.uk/walla.htm Again from Foxy, compare with the US one !

Also a brill book by Allen Ford,,, Riding the wall of death,, around 12. Fox used to ride for Allen when Allens wall was on the road, Ken is a really good trick rider. My mate another Ken who this thread was about also road for Allen and now sometimes rides for Ken (Fox),,

All best guys here are called Ken hahaha
As a side note, Ken number two has just delivered a Beetrike for me, custom made, 1300cc VW engine goes like sh@t off a shovel,,,I must get some hair so the wind can blow through it !!

Ken (Westbury Posse).
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 12:08PM)
WOD are not very profitable on this side of the Pond at fairs as a pay attraction...Most WOD operators are paid as a "Free Attractin"..If they are at a Fair...1 reason is Globe of Deaths are part of a Paid attraction at the Fair as either a Circus or a Stunt Show....as with a Sideshow...Fire and Electrical inspections are basically the Norm...very rarely does a Building inspector get involved....Showmen for Century's have promised acts the "World"...all I can say if one is traveling from 'Jolly Old England" to work in the US...MAKE sure your Employer is Reputable...Also most acts are Hired as Independent Contractors and are responsible for their own Health Insurance,taxes ect...Once again, I believe the attraction should be inspected for Public Safety and carry Liability Insurance...However, I do not believe in Goverment dictating what I should provide for "Contract acts"...If one wants to have a Health plan retirement ect., ect, Go work for General Motors ....because basicly there is not enough $$$ on a Midway to provide these services to "Contract Acts"...and more Goverment Regs will only lead to the extinction of Shows of any type on American Midways...Sorry about your Freind Ken...Yet, if he thought the wall was unsafe, and the Living conditions were unsuitable, all I can suggest is do more research on the Employer before taking the job....
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 12:34PM)
I quite agree and as a self employed person Ken was not looking for anything other than a salary and bunkbed. Pensions etc do not come into this equasion. If I employed people (At one time I had five staff to look after) I would make sure they had at the very least a bed to sleep in and good working conditions. If not, I would have not been able to hire.

What still puzzles me is how could such an abortion ever get Public Liability Insurance ?

Yes, the walls here get paid gigs and globes are nothing to compare to a good show on the wall. I know of a tented Globe which never got a percentage of the return the Wall did,it lasted a season then sold to Aus.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Rod Pringle (Feb 5, 2010 12:42PM)
Check out this clip from 1964 . The movie was Roustabout starring Elvis Presley. There are some nice shots of the WOD in this movie, plus some footage of the rider too I also recall that Arron Brill had building plans for a WOD Motordrome in his Bible Of Building Plans this was in the late 60's and early 70's. You can still find Brill plans on E bay , and from Good magic .com Wayne Keyser). maybe one of these old Drome plans are for sale somewhere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRy6UvCZpLc
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Feb 5, 2010 12:54PM)
Ken as I remember the old days...the Indian's (un muffled) were used on the Bally ONLY for their big rumble and size and maybe one on the wall with the sidecar for the lion. But on the wall they mostly used smaller unmuffled CZ Jawa's (Ear splitting!) Or was it the other way around? Anyway there were two types of bikes used. I do remember the Lion in the sidecar's tail ws shorter each season. ;-)

Brill's Bible by the way had a 'plan' available. But remember Brill would extrapolate his measurments from a single REACHABLE piece. he told me once of how he did the plan for the Ferris Wheel. He measured ONE strut. Yipe!

These days the hot act is in the globe with 3 or 4 bikes and Ringling knockin' it out of the park with SEVEN high speed motorcycles racing crossovers in in the globe.

As a sideshow though the Wall is King!
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 12:56PM)
Public Liability Insurance can be aqquired by finding a Company that will write a policy...Generally they ask what you have..and a fee is set..Although they ussually send out a Rep to inspect, this does not always happen, Fairs ect. ussually want a $1million - $2million policy...that covers Public Liability and for Damages to the grounds...Either way, when one recieves the policy..It is assumed The Insured Party meets or exceeds ALL Regs. So in effect, the WOD in question may only have a piece of paper to operate, but in reality may not meet the conditions of the policy..making it VOID in case of a Claim....Either way this Insurance has nothin to with a "Contracted Act"..as far as your Freind, working For Reputable Showmen is the responsibility of the Act...even if he has a contract I doubt it is worth the Paper it is written on...and even if he recieved a judgement for expenses incurred, I highly doubt he would recieve 1 penny...but would surely end up spending more out of pocket $$ for naught..He should write it off as a bad expierence and move on...As for Globes versus WOD...I feel WOD's are more entertaining...But Globes get the $$ cause they are always part of another Deal...That is why WOD's are most likely seen at Bike Rally's and such...Nobody sells tickets to veiw them as a stand alone attraction anymore, They are almost always "Bought-out as a Free act...The ones I see that try to bally and sell Tickets end-up as a Losing proposition...
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Feb 5, 2010 12:59PM)
Jim...do the WOD's show up at the big rallys? Like Sturges?
I've only been to smaller meets.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 01:00PM)
That`s more like it.
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 01:05PM)
Doug
Yes, somtimes 2 in Sturges...Like I said earliar, the WOD Kondini refers to, was at the Showmans Club in Gibtown for "Bike Week"...If I had known Kondini's Freind was there, I would of "Rolled out the Red-carpet" for him and helped in any way...WOD nowadays are almost always a PAID FREE attraction...3 years ago a WOD was in front of me at a fair (They were from Canada)...they Ballyed and sold tickets...I don't believe they made the nut...
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 01:12PM)
Ken had no intention of any action and from start to finish put it down to experience, he just said it as he found it, no sourer grapes just info for those thinking the grass could be greener.

The act in a globe is very limited compared to a good sized wall, have yet to see go carts raceing around a globe or 2x2 crossovers with 4 bikes or passengers in multiple sidecar rigs.

That is a difference for sure, over here the wall will wipe the floor with any globe.

Indians are used on the wall (Maybe its down to tradition) Also steam bikes attract as well.

If you saw Carradine on the bally and with the noise as well which can be heard all over the showground you would understand why the public Q to see.

At the Great Dorset Steam Rally (The largest of its kind in the world) Two walls stood side by side, two shows per hour, riding black from 10am till midnight.
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 01:25PM)
On another note...I know a lot of Folks here are acts that generally play venues other than the "Midway"...with that said, One must realise that on a Midway, it is NOT ABOUT THE SHOW...it is ABOUT MAKING MONEY...and "If one Builds it,They will Come"...is a Farce!...Even tho We all LOVE and ENJOY WOD's, Sideshows ect..Simply puttin them on a Midway garuntees NOTHING...Sure, all the shows we adore and shows we would gladly ante up for and buy a Ticket, does not mean the General Fair going public will do the same...In many ways the Modern-Showman has to be more of a Showman today to survive than our predosessors...The "Shows of Old" were more Elaborate and Grander, but could not survive in today's world of Television, internet and Goverment Regulation...WOD's are truly a thing of the Past, and many Sideshows and Grind-shows, may not be far behind....For the "Midway and Public tastes...are a changin....
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 01:33PM)
Ken...

I have no Doubt the UK WOD's are profitable....
Perhaps they are more Professionally run and operated over there...
and, The British seem to know what they are, and what they are about...
Yet, over here they have been unseen by most for a long-time and the Public needs to be reeducated...unfortunately that is not feasible for Showman that need to pay Bills today....
I hope someday I can travel to Jolly Ole England to veiw a Truly Sensational WOD, and also I would like to visit "Carters Steam Fair"....
Best to you and ALL UK Showmen....
Message: Posted by: Rod Pringle (Feb 5, 2010 01:42PM)
Doug:

Brill was from the old school, many of his ride plans suggested using a Model T rear end Axle attached to an electric motor or gas engine, and to use Lamp Black from a kerosene lamp for a pounce to make signs and banners with ha ha

ROD
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 01:44PM)
The Midway is something I know nothing of.
In the UK nostalgia is paramount and even though the checkerplate fast brigade make huge sums there will always be a place for the olduns and the less there are of them the more the demand will rise,,,that`s how I still get booked year after year.

This was not mentioned on a Im better than the states angle, it was judged as it is.

Now in the US you have the finest Ren Fairs I have ever seen (Thats pretty old as well). For 18 + years I was booked for 4 Seasons Events the best Ren Fair in the UK and it wiped the floor with all takers. Guess what, it was run by a Yank. Even this was not to compare to the Annapolis Fair which was the finest example of its kind that I have ever visited. Among the performers were Jonny Fox who I believe had worked it for 25 years +

If the US public taste is not sweet towards WOD then I guess to mothball and re try in ten years or so would be the thing to do.

In this biz everything goes around and comes around again.

Yep the box office is important, we all must make a profit and in the UK you can, with WOD and sideshow, but its getting harder and harder but it will survive one way or another and outlive me, for sure.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Rick West (Feb 5, 2010 01:45PM)
Even though I know this to be fact...its hard to see it in print.


[quote]
Even tho We all LOVE and ENJOY WOD's, Sideshows ect..Simply puttin them on a Midway garuntees NOTHING...Sure, all the shows we adore and shows we would gladly ante up for and buy a Ticket, does not mean the General Fair going public will do the same...In many ways the Modern-Showman has to be more of a Showman today to survive than our predosessors...The "Shows of Old" were more Elaborate and Grander, but could not survive in today's world of Television, internet and Goverment Regulation...WOD's are truly a thing of the Past, and many Sideshows and Grind-shows, may not be far behind....For the "Midway and Public tastes...are a changin....
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Rick West (Feb 5, 2010 01:50PM)
http://www.wallofdeathinc.com/

I have seen this guy work a few times as a free attraction...
he puts on a good show most of the time...
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 5, 2010 01:55PM)
A singlo,,,wow good on him, that`s a new one on me.

I am certainly learning a bit about your biz here, that`s nice. Should soon be able to get across there and kick some *** for myself!!!

Ken.
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Feb 5, 2010 02:04PM)
[quote]
On 2010-02-05 14:55, Kondini wrote:

I am certainly learning a bit about your biz here, that`s nice. Should soon be able to get across there and kick some ass for myself !!!

Ken.
[/quote]

Sounds Good!!!...can't wait till you swim across the Pond!!!....American Midways are always in need of a "True Showman"....
Message: Posted by: Stephon (Feb 5, 2010 10:19PM)
[quote]
On 2010-02-05 14:44, Kondini wrote:
Even this was not to compare to the Annapolis Fair which was the finest example of its kind that I have ever visited.
[/quote]Thanks for saying so. Sorry I missed you when you were here.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 8, 2010 08:28AM)
Stephon, are you a part of this ?

Yes, the way your Fairs are staged is far superior, with brick built stalls, live acts, animals, acurate dress and a more positive response by the speckies. Of course money plays an importanr part and tickets are not cheap but it is real value for money and you can see large investment has been made.

Also the US acceptance of things like Axe Throwing, Elephant Rides, Bawdy humour and a host of other things which would be just not permitted over here go to make up a great days entertainment.

Plus the chance for spec acts to shine and make a good living,,the standard of live entertainment was high.

Three visits and I will be back for more.

On the funny side, the Americans trying to speak olde English even drafts from Shakespear had me curled up.

So pass on my praise to the gaffers, and let them know I am available for the season after next !

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Danny Borneo (Feb 8, 2010 08:33AM)
I have to agree with Ken, I was thoroughly impressed with the Fair when I was there. Stephon and the various other members of Cheeky Monkey Sideshow that perform are all great at what they do and the people that run the fair know it. The fact that grounds have permanent structures is wonderful it really helps to pull you in and really immerse you in what they're trying to accomplish there.
Message: Posted by: Stephon (Feb 10, 2010 11:37AM)
Thanks, Danny. And, yes, Ken, I've been performing at the Maryland festival since 1989 as a member of Shakespeare's Skum, several years as half of the Pickled Punks, and having been doing the Swami YoMahmi show for, I dunno, more than 10 years, I think.

Maryland is a terrific festival to work, with very supportive management and director(s), and I believe the quality of variety entertainment is overall very high.

I'm surprised to hear that the things you mentioned (particularly the bawdy humor) would not go over in the UK; I've always thought the US was much more uptight about seckshual material than the UK.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 10, 2010 12:10PM)
You gotta be jokeing,,if we had axe and knife throwing, sword swallowers without a public written and verbal warnings, walkabout entertainers without a CRB check and goldfish as giveaways we would be tarred and feathered. At the entrance to the fair with bawdy remarks about come inside before we drink all the ale and virgins to the left with children to the right etc etc ,,,, the powers that be would be on us like a ton of bricks. Let alone a live two headed turtle,,,the RSPCA would go mad and the anti`s would be there in force.

Our last visit was around four years ago in October time,,,to be exact it was the week the Coney Island Freakshow did their final show of the season.

Yes we can get away with coloured humour here but not in a family enviroment.

Once more it was the tops for us and we made several contacts and friends when we were there.

On the whole the US is far more open than we are and they serve larger food portions`at sensible prices as well !!!

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Martin_Ling (Mar 26, 2010 01:03PM)
Bump!

Just came across this WOD vid!

http://www.kontraband.com/videos/21970/Mega-Wall-Of-Death/#show
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Mar 26, 2010 01:59PM)
That was very interesting,,,thanks.

A very large wall indeed,,,with the daylight showing through the slats it must have been like riding over concrete humps,,,,sore saddle for sure.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: A.Hellrider (May 3, 2010 05:36PM)
Hello forum, I am a member of a Wall of Death show in the US. American Motor Drome Company http://americanwallofdeath.com. Stephon made mention of us as friends of Tyler Fyre and Thrill Kill Jill. They have actually performed their Lucky DareDevil Thrillshow right on our stage. not boasting, just so ya know I'm not a wacko.

To date there are five dromes in the US and one in Canada. The drome Ken visited and the one most recently built do not hold a candle to the craftmanship that went into shows of the past. Kens living conditons were not bad compared to stories I have heard and actual experience. The wall from Canada is built with aluminum and an oak riding surface. The building that Rhett rides was built around 1940 and is in bad conditon. The California Hellriders out of Swansea, Mass. own the last building built by Joe Boudro from 1958? They are a family show with the sons of the owner now runnig the show. Then there is our building, it began construction in late 1998 and saw its' first show in 2001. The owner rode the wall in his youth and owned with a friend two different buildings. In 1998 Samantha was injuried during a show and was out of riding for the foreseeable future. While she was healing, she and Jay decided that there needed to be another drome. and the story contnues...

As for coming to observe UK shows to gain experience, you did not see the right execution of the show. We have the knowlege to run the show but as others stated in this thread " bad shows reflect on everyone" we have been working to overcome the poor showmanship and business practices. don't get me wrong nobody is perfect I still manage to show my a** form time to time.

I do have a copy of Ken Foxs' DVD I would love to see him ride in person. He rides with such grace, Samantha had that same flowing style.

We are making progress, six spots this season that are paying us to do free shows and several more where we sell tickets. None of them are on a fair or carnival. The carnivals still think that we sould be paying them. We have played one fair, the fair board hired us to come and do free shows but the midway operator screamed so they put a ticket booth next to us and told us we had to sell their tickets to our show. we haven't been back.

We do get inspected, mostly from the fire department. Extinguishers and fuel storage are usually their concern. The inspector in Daytona, Fl. actually brought other officials to our drome to show them how it's suppose to be done. Public Saftey is our main concern, if anyone ever gets hurt we're done. We do have Liability Insurance for the public and all of our equipment.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (May 6, 2010 10:29AM)
Thanks for the info,,to compare your wall from the vids on the site, it is far superior to the one Ken worked for (Note no daylight showing through the slats) The riders had a good smooth as possible trip.

I consider Ken Fox to be the best trick rider around today, he worked at the start for Allen Ford on his Motor drome, then built his own and now has two sets on the road with his son manning the number two unit. I feel with time Luke will surpass his father with the stunts and take trick work to an even higher level.

Of course private fee paid work is fairly limited but free rent in return for the attraction of a wall at UK shows is often the case,,this makes it a very viable venture.

Yes, I was well impressed with your unit, good luck to you all.

Ken.