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Topic: Non-Card Effects for a Card Worker
Message: Posted by: konradz (Mar 3, 2010 10:33AM)
Hello all,
I myself am a card worker, I've been doing it for a while and it is what I'm happiest and most comfortable with. This question is being asked totally due to the consideration for my audiences. I'm sure that after a while card tricks might get boring to people, and they would like me to liven it up with a few "non-card tricks".

So I'm wondering what would people reccomend to pursue for "non-card tricks" for a guy like me and where a good source to use would be.
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Mar 3, 2010 12:31PM)
Card tricks usually get boring if there's not enough texture in the whole set. If cards are your first love, I'd make sure to have a fully rounded-out repertoire first, before trying to just add stuff in for the questionable goal of arbitrary variety.

Some questions...

Do you have a list of all the stuff you're currently doing? Also, do you have any training in anything other than cards? Where do you usually perform? Finally, is your overall goal to be a well-rounded magician? (If so, on the last question, then this is an easy one, start studying the cups and balls)
Message: Posted by: Metatron (Mar 3, 2010 12:38PM)
A good coin assembly with cards as covers (Matrix), makes a good segue from card magic into coin magic.

Message: Posted by: jake.o (Mar 4, 2010 02:52AM)
Have a look at jay sankeys dvds, he has a load which are non card and are normally aimed at the begginer skill level.(my favorate is holy moly)

you could also look into sponge balls if you havent allready, as they go down well with near enough everybody.
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Mar 4, 2010 06:25AM)
Also look at the different approach to card magic Magicbob has taken in his miniature card illusions from his "I Hate Card Tricks" books on my site.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Mar 4, 2010 07:33AM)
On 2010-03-03 13:31, Andrew Musgrave wrote:

Some questions...

Do you have a list of all the stuff you're currently doing?


One idea is to check that list and find those that relate to gambling.
Use gambling as the theme.
Then perhaps fit "Fast & Loose" (chain), John Carney's "Hot Slot" or Derek Dingle's "Slot Machine" (coins), "Sachs Dice Routine" or Bob Sheet's "It's the Rules".
Message: Posted by: Ade2010 (Mar 4, 2010 08:09AM)
There are *many* card plots beyond 'Pick a card'

One idea is to look at your act and make sure you have a good mix of different types of effects. This could help combat your fear of 'boring' audiences.

Divination (telling a spec what card they are thinking of)
Transmutation (changing a signed card from the one the spectator picked to that of a different value)
Transportation (e.g. card-to-wallet)
Gambling demos (false shuffling, false dealing, proposition bets)
Reformation (torn and restored card)
Transposition: Two signed cards change places under impossible conditions)

I'm sure members here can add to this list...
Message: Posted by: AlexanderY (Mar 4, 2010 09:37AM)
The idea of having a list is fantastic. That way, you could see which effects has the same kind of plot.

I guess to an extent, a large bulk of card effect involves a card being found in some way, so if you could string them up, or simply choose the best few, it would be a good idea.

Also, I suggest doing coin magic (like coins across), but producing the coins via the cards. So this way there is a logic flow.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Mar 4, 2010 01:17PM)
Learn a few sleights that can be done with 'found' small object rather than just coins. Think candy, nuts, plastic rose buds, Splenda packets,etc. Then you are alwasy prepared.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Mar 5, 2010 06:56PM)
Note that it is more than possible to do JUST card magic for a show. Martin Nash and others did it for years. Part of the secret seems to be using a 'character' that explains and justifies why the performer just uses cards, etc.

The character allows one to narrow the focus of the performance to just one mode without losing anything in the process. Best,
Message: Posted by: abc (Mar 5, 2010 08:57PM)
Jon Armstrong would be another example of someone who almost exclusively uses cards but I have to say that these are special people and I wouldn't advice any beginner to just focus on cards. This has been said a million times, but Mark Wilson's encyclopedia is the best start if you want to expand your horizons.
Message: Posted by: sanjaya (Mar 6, 2010 12:49PM)
If what you're used to is cards, other things like coins can feel really foreign. And many card guys I know don't care for coins either. Or sponge balls.

One such card guy I know introduced the following for those situations where he wanted something w/ out cards.
Safety pins. Bob Sheets' Grab That Pinhead is easy. Or you can pick up the Andrus set, which is really good.
Cut and restored string in Wilson book.
A simple matrix that doesn't require any significant coin sleights.
Ring and string.

Or you could find a mentalism trick or 2
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Mar 6, 2010 04:25PM)
I agree with all the above, but - you should be aware that "card tricks" are never boring - [b]it's the person doing them that can be boring[/b]!! Brad said it above. Best - HARRY L.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 7, 2010 07:58AM)
So many good ideas above, makes me feel good about the Café!

I feel there is a difference between card" tricks" and card "magic". Perhaps by doing some card "magic" you could stay with your specialty, cards, but use them for "magic" to change the pace.

Examples would be the Cornelius or Kennedy shrinking deck, card warp, Garcia's Torn, a good card vanish, Erdnase color change, Fisher's Panic, etc. I like the matrix idea, also.

Message: Posted by: Tim Dowd (Mar 7, 2010 10:53AM)
On 2010-03-03 11:33, konradz wrote:
So I'm wondering what would people reccomend to pursue for "non-card tricks" for a guy like me and where a good source to use would be.

Hi Konradz,

an inexpensive way could be to buy a bumper book of magic ;) and take a look. One that I really recommend is Joshua Jay's MAGIC: the complete course http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/close-up-magic/magic-the-complete-course/ or for a bit more money a DVD set from Daryl at Fooler Doolers http://www.FoolerDoolers.com.

These sources gives you a grounding in other types of magic and you can pick and choose the effects you want to perform.
Message: Posted by: konradz (Mar 7, 2010 01:16PM)
Thanks for all the ideas guys. I was on Sankey's site and I ordered his Holy products (Holy Moly, Holy Stretch, and Unholy) as this was exactly what I am looking for at the moment. I'll be sure to come back to this thread in the future for more ideas.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Mar 8, 2010 11:54AM)
On 2010-03-06 17:25, Harry Lorayne wrote:
I agree with all the above, but - you should be aware that "card tricks" are never boring - [b]it's the person doing them that can be boring[/b]!! Brad said it above. Best - HARRY L.

I wholeheartedly agree with Harry. Card effects may be boring for magicians but are hardly ever boring for laypeople. The name of a book called "i hate cardtricks" is one designed to lure magicians since laypeople don't hate cardtricks..
Message: Posted by: bicycle66 (Mar 12, 2010 08:37AM)
Yes I really like Jay Sankeys ideas he comes up with some really great stuff. I also like Greg Wilson he too has some really good workable effects. There are a lot of effects you can do with cards as your main focus like the matrix or vegas cards type all the way to card on ceiling and if you are into gaffs then that is another whole bag of possibilities. There are also some very simple coin routines that you can use a gaff with and make a miracle and not need the really hardslight of hand only changing in a regular for the gaff and back. The bad to that is for the coin gaff that looks real it is sometimes not cheap. But if you want cheap think rubber bands.....:lol: Sean.
Message: Posted by: MHamel (Mar 13, 2010 08:37PM)
Here is an idea of some things to look at. I myself have been known for my card work. However I don't ever do the same card effect twice. On itunes there is a great card finder you can download for free. Also try adding coins to your card effects. Maybe flying fifties? Another good trick is tagged.

This is a very informal message but my point is there is a lot out there you can add to your card effects to help draw in different people with different interest.