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Topic: Pro-flight by Nicholas Einhorn and Robert Swadling
Message: Posted by: puffinmonkey (Mar 12, 2010 05:30PM)
Any reviews on this yet?

-Alex
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 12, 2010 06:58PM)
Alex, I think this is only pre order right now.

But Hmmmm.... This looks (and I stress the word LOOKS) almost EXACTLY like Steve Dushecks Ringer.... So much so that I got mine out and had a moment of de'ja vu. The keychain has the same fob, rectangle key holder, same shaped leather around the fob. It also RESEMBLES The Morelli Ring by CW.( I own both, plus ALOT of other ring flights, both reels and reelless) BUT maybe Steve or CW put their stamp on this. AND if it has a new style hook up and not just a different routine, you can count on me picking this up.

-J-
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 13, 2010 01:05AM)
I got this Email from Steve Dusheck:

Thank you for writing. The handling certainly looks the same as my Ringer. The shape of the key ring and fob is the same as my Ringer too. Nick bought my Ringer several years ago and later he asked me for permission to make my Ringer. I told him he didn't have my permission and I needed the income I received from Ringer.

He didn't really do the entire trick by removing the finger ring from the key ring and the camera never really gave a close-up view of the prop. I think it would be very sad if two well known and respected magicians needed the money so bad that they had to copy my trick.

Time will tell if they came up with an improvement or simply copied my Ringer.

Best wishes,

Steve

So there might be an issue here... I honestly hope that it is something different because I really like ring flights. If it is just an alteration on Ringers gimmick then.........hmmm.....

-J-
Message: Posted by: puffinmonkey (Mar 13, 2010 03:42AM)
Thanks for the reply Judah, I really hope this isn't just a copy. Einhorn is one of my magicians, loved his spooked effect. I use it all the time. I guess we'll have to wait and see if this effect really does contradict with each other.

-Alex
Message: Posted by: Andi Peters (Mar 13, 2010 06:55AM)
I hope Nick hasn't ripped Steve's Ringer.

Maybe he's just played around with it a little and discovered some wonderful things to do with it.

Let's see how Nick's compares to Steve's and let's hope he hasn't just taken Steve's Ringer and stretched things a little.
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Mar 13, 2010 07:48AM)
And very much like the old Tony Clark,
Message: Posted by: Andi Peters (Mar 13, 2010 12:29PM)
Looks like many people have been playing with Steve's Ringer.
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 13, 2010 08:52PM)
Well Nicolas is a member here, maybe he could come in and clear somethings up?
Message: Posted by: rowland (Mar 14, 2010 03:02AM)
Is there a link for this anywhere?
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Mar 14, 2010 04:20AM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-14 04:02, rowland wrote:
Is there a link for this anywhere?
[/quote]
Google is your friend.
Message: Posted by: einhorn (Mar 14, 2010 10:11AM)
"Time will tell if they came up with an improvement or simply copied my Ringer".

Hi Magic Café!
I have read the previous comments and want to reassure everyone that I have not copied Ringer.

Pro-Flite was certainly inspired by Steve Dusheck's excellent prop and I have given it full credit on the DVD. For those that own or know RINGER you will realise what makes Pro-Flite different, just from the add copy alone.

I think it would be unfair of me to discuss what I think are major differences/advantages in the two on an open public forum.

I think reviews from people who will soon own both Ringer and Pro-Flite will be more reassuring to those that currently think it is just a copy.

I believe that Pro-Flite will tick a lot of boxes for both the hobbyist and pro. How many routines which form part of your 'A-list' set can be carried with you and performed at the drop of a hat? I think it is reassuring to know you will always have something so strong with you for those moments when people say - "Can you do something amazing...."

Nick
Message: Posted by: puffinmonkey (Mar 14, 2010 10:51PM)
Thanks for the input nick. Looks great
Message: Posted by: bryanlonden (Mar 14, 2010 11:22PM)
I just did the same thing with a normal carbiner keychain from wal-mart.

So I must ask, does this gimmicked key ring more easily conceal the ring when it's held with in the hand?

I enjoy the routine, I just would like to understand what this offers over what I've just done with my normal keyring.

Thank you,
Bryan
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 15, 2010 01:49AM)
Hey Nick,

Before I go on, I wanna say to all that I am not about bashing Nick here, I own Spooked, I own Word In A Million, If I still did self levi's I would own In Flight. I like Nicks thinking and his released effects. With that being said...

This IS the forum for telling us on the Café what makes Pro-Flight better then Ringer. It IS also the one to tell us the pros and cons.(Hence the Latest and Greatest....lol!!) This is the exact forum for creators to come in and quell the inevitable questions that come up even after reading the ad copy. (without exposure of course!) And we have ALL fallen victim to false ad copy, or as some would say 'cleverly worded ad copy'. (PLEASE ... I am not saying Nick is doing that at all) BUT I rarely take ad copy for set in stone.

I know we all stand on the shoulders of others. I applaud the fact that Nick credits Steve. I read the ad copy thoroughly before I made this post, and I can see only one real difference between Ringer and Pro-Flight (besides the added ring on string routine) is that the ad says the spec can handle the keyring. Which in the Demo, she does. So that point seems to be true. BUT the question remains....

Is the GIMMICK different then Ringer? The reason I find this so important to ask, is because the style of keychain is EXACTLY the same. To me this means treading on thin ice. We could look at this in several ways: 1. Nick and Bob came up with a new style gimmick. 2. They combined different gimmicks to make a new gimmick (i.e: putting a morelli gimmick on a ringer keychain) 3. They copied a Gimmick. I, personally, am hoping it is number one. If not then they have stepped in number two!! (ok it was a bad joke, but I had to take it)

I will not deny that I am intrigued by the spec handling the keychain. I liked the premise for why you take the keys out and show them before the ring appears. If Nick can tell me that the gimmick is different, (without exposing how) I can promise a pre order.

Sorry for the long post but I have too much free time sometimes......

Respectfully,

Judah
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 15, 2010 02:06AM)
Bryan,

With carabiner keychains, the method for HOW the ring got on there is apparent (to some). It takes less then a second to put something on a carabiner keychain, which is a GREAT effect of the design. Totally works like a charm!! And, yes, I did exactly what you did with a walmart carabiner. Easy, Cheap, Effective (to a point).

Now lets look at Pro-Flight, Ringer, and The Morelli Ring: While it takes the SAME amount of time to load (I am assuming on PF), the difference that makes these better is the you have to unscrew the keychain to get the ring off. It takes 7 full turns on Ringer and 15 on the Morelli to get the keychain open. All it takes on a carabiner keychain is to unclip it. Makes it a bit more of a mystery and the wow factor is better (speaking from expierience). That would be what I percieve as the difference, and what I percieve makes any one of these better. (In My Humble Opinion)

-J-
Message: Posted by: einhorn (Mar 15, 2010 05:18AM)
OK, to answer some of the comments and questions....

Bryan says....
"I just did the same thing with a normal carbiner keychain from wal-mart".

Hi Bryan - Judah pretty much summed it up well with his post. The amazement is going to fizzle out pretty quick when they realise you are holding a carabiner. Everyone knows you can put something onto one of those in under a second.

Part of the mystery is not understanding how something can get onto a keyring that has to be SCREWED shut.

Judah says....
"This IS the forum for telling us on the Café what makes Pro-Flight better then Ringer"

It may be, but I am not going to blow my own trumpet and tell you Pro-Flite is better than all the rest. It will suit a lot of people (Pro as well as novice) and it is better for such comments on how reliable/practical/amazing it is to come from them rather than me. I am confidant it is a powerhouse gimmick because I use it about 20-50 times a week (and have done for years) and it is one of the strongest routines I perform. Many of my closest friends in magic have seen me use this successfully over that time and been waiting for this to be released.

I am positive those that purchase this gimmick will add it to their keys within minutes and be playing with this all the time.

Judah also asks...

"Is the GIMMICK different then Ringer?"

Yes. Absolutely. Different method and different construction.

Pro-Flite is being independently reviewed currently and I hope to be able to post that review here very soon.

Nick
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 15, 2010 05:52AM)
Ok... You know what?

Nick is a class act. He answered my main query with poise. And he has the class to say he is not going to 'Blow his own trumpet', which some creators LOVE to do. He does not say this is the end all, or even that its better then others. THAT is a class act gentlemen.

Soooo... I have no more questions, (well not true, but close) and I am not going to post here again until the effect is in my hot little hands.

Nick - Thank you. You are truly tops.

-J-
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Mar 15, 2010 08:19AM)
Video:

http://www.murphysmagicsupplies.com/video/clips/DVDPROFLITE-VIDEO1.wmv
Message: Posted by: bryanlonden (Mar 15, 2010 04:45PM)
Judah, Nick,

Thanks guys for clearing that up. With that said, the effect looks great! This looks like something I will be picking up, since I love impromptu magic.

Thanks,
Bryan
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 16, 2010 07:42AM)
I was lucky enough to chat with Nick about Pro-Flite during the development stage. It has gone through a number of changes and is now a top quality piece of apparatus. I have Ringer and can tell you that while both achieve the same effect, the prop is made differently and the while the method of getting the ring onto it is similar (I can't think of any other way to do it!) it is different enough. You will see what I mean when you get it :) It is the same as two wallets for a 'Card to Wallet' effect. They may both be black, hip-style wallets, the card ends up inside with both of them but the method of getting it in there is slightly different and the wallets are made differently.

Whether one is better than the other will depend on your own performing style and ability with each. The one big thing Pro-Flite has going in its favour is that it is examinable, not just in a casual way but if someone wants to check it out for any gaps, magnets, mirros or whatever else people think they will find, they will not find them here.
Message: Posted by: kollo (Mar 16, 2010 03:18PM)
I think this forum is the exactly right place for the inventor to tell us the pros about their Pro-Flight.

They are working magicians. They had Ringer. So which aspects needed improvements IN THEIR opinion? This would be very interesting for the working magicians in this forum.
Design?
Loading/ Unloading the ring?
Set-UP / Reset?
Durability?
Handing out to spectators?
...
...

It´s not blowing own trumpets! It´s giving information to potential customers!
Message: Posted by: James Freedman (Mar 16, 2010 04:28PM)
I have been asked to write the first review of Pro-Flite for http://www.magicweek.co.uk but I'm afraid you will have to wait until it goes online this Saturday (20/3).

Until then, let me just say that I've seen Nick perform Pro-Flite for lay people and to a room full of magicians and every time, the reactions have been excellent.

James
Message: Posted by: warren (Mar 20, 2010 06:57AM)
Well having worked with nick a couple of years ago and knowing what a good working pro he is I ordered this effect as soon as I saw it.
I also think nick is correct in holding back on what makes his ring flight better or worse than the other versions and let other people do that via reviews.
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Mar 20, 2010 01:24PM)
Release date ?
Message: Posted by: James Freedman (Mar 20, 2010 06:47PM)
My detailed review is here today

http://www.magicweek.co.uk/magic_reviews/review_trick_pro_flite_nick_einhorn.htm

James
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 21, 2010 12:40AM)
Excellent review HOWEVER you should tell us the cost.
Message: Posted by: puffinmonkey (Mar 21, 2010 12:45AM)
Anyone know when it's going to be available in the US? It's currently on pre-order

-Alex
Message: Posted by: rowland (Mar 21, 2010 01:38AM)
In the UK it is on Alakazam's web site for £29.99
Message: Posted by: warren (Mar 21, 2010 05:57AM)
Just to let you know you can also order this direct from nick himself for £29.99 and its post free at the moment in the uk anyway.
Message: Posted by: presto77 (Mar 21, 2010 06:53AM)
Hi, guys has any one got pro flight yet ?
Message: Posted by: warren (Mar 21, 2010 07:39AM)
You will have to wait until april to get your hands on it however it can be pre-ordered.
Message: Posted by: jaduwalla (Mar 23, 2010 06:09AM)
I have the pleasure of working with Nic Einhorn on a regular basis and for years I have been witness to the almost hysterical reactions he gets with his 'Pro Flight'. Now he has released it to the magic community much to my dismay... It's just too good! I have Steve Dushek's excellent 'Ringer' - and it has a very different mechanism. With Nic's Pro Flight and his tried and tested handling (the very same I've seen him use for years now) THEY are holding the keys "before" the ring arrives. Then once they've finished screaming and freaking out, THEY remove the ring from the keys (with the magician being completely hands off). "Morelli" I can almost hear some people say, BUT that's a 2 handed operation and they can not hold the keys 'before the ring arrives'. Nic's Pro Flight is simple and effective, no reels, no magnets, no springs, no mirrors, just a trap door... but a bloody good one. Nothing to find, nothing to break, I hope no one buys it!!!
Message: Posted by: JamieD (Mar 23, 2010 07:17AM)
This sounds very cool indeed. I've cut my finger open trying to fix Rinkey Dinkey. I've had no success with the easily broken Departure gimmicks and their replacements. Maybe this is finally the answer for a decent ring on key effect. Ill be picking this up!

Jamie Daws
Message: Posted by: presto77 (Mar 23, 2010 07:25PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-23 07:09, jaduwalla wrote: Sounds good to me lets buy it now wow
I have the pleasure of working with Nic Einhorn on a regular basis and for years I have been witness to the almost hysterical reactions he gets with his 'Pro Flight'. Now he has released it to the magic community much to my dismay... It's just too good! I have Steve Dushek's excellent 'Ringer' - and it has a very different mechanism. With Nic's Pro Flight and his tried and tested handling (the very same I've seen him use for years now) THEY are holding the keys "before" the ring arrives. Then once they've finished screaming and freaking out, THEY remove the ring from the keys (with the magician being completely hands off). "Morelli" I can almost hear some people say, BUT that's a 2 handed operation and they can not hold the keys 'before the ring arrives'. Nic's Pro Flight is simple and effective, no reels, no magnets, no springs, no mirrors, just a trap door... but a bloody good one. Nothing to find, nothing to break, I hope no one buys it!!!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: presto77 (Mar 23, 2010 07:27PM)
Hi, just booked my pro - flight it sounds good lets hope so ? any more news on this pro trick I think it has the WOW factor
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Mar 26, 2010 08:49AM)
GOT MINE ON PRE ORDER FROM WORLD MAGIC STORE... THINK DUE TO SHIP OUT EARLY APRIL?!?!

NE1 GOT THERE HANDS ON THIS YET?....
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Mar 26, 2010 09:27AM)
Although it does look very much like those in the past, and that is understandable as, there is not a lot that can be changed, perhaps the ting part is stronger, and will not bend or break as easy as others, and getting the ring on is a bit faster and easier too, if only by a fraction of a second, in our world of eyes burning on your every move, a second of time is a lot to save, what else can make it better is the price, if it is a value or not, as well as the DVD, is it produced in quality or a basement DVD, does it contain good info or old babble, all these tiny things add up to quite a lot, I had a similar shaped ring many years ago, that was made by a quality company, and it was spring loaded, it looked and appeared to be the same as Pro -Flight, but it was made very weak, and after just having it in my pocket, it bent, making it useless, I am a huge fan of ring flights that do not use a reel, and this appeals to me.
Message: Posted by: the Sponge (Mar 26, 2010 09:41AM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-26 09:49, 2010multimagic wrote:
GOT MINE ON PRE ORDER FROM WORLD MAGIC STORE... THINK DUE TO SHIP OUT EARLY APRIL?!?!

NE1 GOT THERE HANDS ON THIS YET?....
[/quote]
What was that? I'm sorry, could you please speak up?

:)
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Mar 26, 2010 01:30PM)
I have heard in the misty grape vine of the magick world that PRO FLITE will be shipped out on monday (pre-orders).....

is this correct????.....

been waiting bloody age's......
Message: Posted by: warren (Mar 27, 2010 07:19AM)
After I placed my order the email that I received from nick just said due early april so fingers crossed.
Message: Posted by: puggo (Mar 27, 2010 02:50PM)
I put an initial review here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=358254&forum=4#0
Charlie
Message: Posted by: warren (Mar 29, 2010 08:33AM)
Well got my pro-flite today very pleased great product money well spent.
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Mar 29, 2010 12:35PM)
[quote]where did you order yours from????
On 2010-03-29 09:33, warren wrote:
Well got my pro-flite today very pleased great product money well spent.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Mar 29, 2010 02:19PM)
Hopefully getting my PRO FLITE wed's...waitin on WMS...distrubution "error" or sumin ?!?!?!...

Ne1 else got pro flite yet??
Message: Posted by: Steve Dusheck (Mar 30, 2010 10:57AM)
Nick sent me his Pro-Flite. It arrived yesterday and I can tell those of you with ethics that Pro-Flite is NOT a copy of my Ringer. It is very different and I'm sure you will be delighted with Pro-Flite.

Steve Dusheck
Message: Posted by: Michael J (Mar 31, 2010 09:28AM)
Dear Steve,

Thanks for sharing the information. I know Nick and have always found him to be extremely fair and ethical.

Hope it will put others at ease.

Mike
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Mar 31, 2010 11:21AM)
I HAVE PRO FLITE....!!!...WISH I HAD NT THOUGHT OF THIS SIMPLE GENIUS WAY !!...DOH!!

VERY PRACTICAL...NO RE-SET..100% COMMERCIAL..SURE FIRE ..CROWD REACTION PLEASER !!!

NICE JOB BOB & NICHOLAS!!...

THIS IS GOINJG TO BE A KEEPER..

LOVE IT !! 9/10...
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Mar 31, 2010 01:38PM)
Very simple, but really effective. Not much more I can say than that. THe Dvd is easy to follow and the gimmick works well. Job done.
Message: Posted by: jprace (Mar 31, 2010 04:47PM)
Just ordered mine from Penguin.
Can't wait!
Message: Posted by: puffinmonkey (Mar 31, 2010 06:08PM)
ORDERS IN!!! can't wait@!
Message: Posted by: dadswell (Apr 1, 2010 04:57AM)
Received mine yesterday and I must say it is brilliant! With a bit of practice you can load the ring very quickly :) Guaranteed crowd pleaser!

Will be road testing it this weekend :D

9/10
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Apr 1, 2010 07:01AM)
I JUST CAN NOT GET ENOUGH OF THIS LITTLE GEM !!!!....

JUST LOVE IT!!..I'TS SO PRACTICAL, AND EASY TO PERFORM..A KILLER EVERYTIME!!..

I PERFROMED IT LAST NIGHT IN SHEFFIELD, AND SUMONE ACTUALLY SAID.. QUOTE "OMG that's IMPOSSIBLE..THAT HAS TO BE REAL MAGIC !!!!"

THE MORE U PERFORM THIS EFFECT THE MORE CONFIDENT AND QUICKLY YOU WILL MAKE THE RING TRAVEL TO THE KEY FOB...

IT JUST LOOKS IMPOSSIBLE..

BEST WAY FOR ME IS TO HAPPEN IN SPECTATORS HAND...

SO MANY POSS'S OF DIFF WAYS TO PERFORM THIS !!...LET UR MAGICK MIND RUN WYLDE!!...

DEF THE BEST RING FLIGHT OUT THERE YET !!..

RATE 9/10
Message: Posted by: 2010multimagic (Apr 2, 2010 02:27AM)
I just cant stress how much I'm loving this little gem!!!...

Have been perfroming this and the reaction I am getting are the type you always want!!!

I performed this in sheffield the other night and this is wat sumone said "OMG..that is impossible..not even david blaine could do that!..that must be real magic!!"...

its just so practical and easy to perform!!...just love it..100% reccomend this..if you have nt got it...GET IT NOW!

rate 9/10
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Apr 2, 2010 06:54AM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-02 03:27, 2010multimagic wrote:
I just cant stress how much I'm loving this little gem!!!...

Have been perfroming this and the reaction I am getting are the type you always want!!!

I performed this in sheffield the other night and this is wat sumone said "OMG..that is impossible..not even david blaine could do that!..that must be real magic!!"...

its just so practical and easy to perform!!...just love it..100% reccomend this..if you have nt got it...GET IT NOW!

rate 9/10
[/quote]

if even Blaine can't do that, it must be very good....
I hope never heard this kind of comment during my performance, I will stop immediately magic and start to work in the delicatessen shop :)
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Apr 3, 2010 06:33AM)
Any comparison to the Morelli Ring Flight?
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Apr 9, 2010 03:36PM)
I just got this, and it is an exact copy of an effect I had many years ago, I will not sleep until I find the name, I am thinking it may have been Collectors Workshop,
Message: Posted by: sabitu (Apr 9, 2010 06:36PM)
Dave, are you thinking of the Collectors Workshop Morelli Ring? In the other thread someone said that Pro-Flite is different from the Morelli Ring.

http://www.collectorsworkshop.com/?nd=full&key=450
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Apr 9, 2010 08:08PM)
Yes, Sabitu, That is it, Pro flight is a thicker metal, more durable, and shaped a bit diferent , I think that the rest is all the same.
Message: Posted by: Floyd Collins (Apr 9, 2010 08:51PM)
Dave,
I don't own Morelli Ring but judging by this picture

http://www.martinsmagic.com/full/Vintage-Magic-Rare-Magic-0-Morelli-Ring-Mystery-Collectors-Workshop__3624.htm#

I would say they are very different. I do own Pro-Flight and knowing how it is handled I can not see how Morelli, could be nearly as deceptive as Pro-Flight. I however conclude this just by looking at the picture of course.

At any rate, Pro-Flight is top notch and works a treat for any where any place magic you will always have on you.

Floyd
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Apr 10, 2010 01:42AM)
THey are different but not by much - (there is not much you can change about a keyring). The morrelli ring is not examinable like pro flight is. I use the morrelli ring and if I'm honest, whilst I really like pro flight, I'm not sure I am going to stop using the morrelli ring. For me no one ever asks to see key ring and I am very comfortable with the handling.

I should say that pro flight is definately an improvement and is really good, but whether or not there is any value added to Ringer or Morrelli ring owners is a different question.
Message: Posted by: NexusMagicShop (Apr 10, 2010 02:05AM)
It's pretty clever...
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Apr 10, 2010 03:27AM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-10 02:42, Paul S Wingham wrote:
THey are different but not by much - (there is not much you can change about a keyring). The morrelli ring is not examinable like pro flight is. I use the morrelli ring and if I'm honest, whilst I really like pro flight, I'm not sure I am going to stop using the morrelli ring. For me no one ever asks to see key ring and I am very comfortable with the handling.

I should say that pro flight is definately an improvement and is really good, but whether or not there is any value added to Ringer or Morrelli ring owners is a different question.
[/quote]
That sounds great! Thanks for the comparison!
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Apr 10, 2010 02:38PM)
The diference is so small, and I did not see any credit on the DVD, given to CW, but then I rushed thru it, I think this is one of the best versions of the effect, mostly do to the quality of the gimick, the CW , was a bit fragile, but other than the shape, it was the same,
Message: Posted by: presto77 (Apr 10, 2010 05:45PM)
[quote]i see what you are saying ,keep to what fits your style
On 2010-04-10 02:42, Paul S Wingham wrote:
THey are different but not by much - (there is not much you can change about a keyring). The morrelli ring is not examinable like pro flight is. I use the morrelli ring and if I'm honest, whilst I really like pro flight, I'm not sure I am going to stop using the morrelli ring. For me no one ever asks to see key ring and I am very comfortable with the handling.

I should say that pro flight is definately an improvement and is really good, but whether or not there is any value added to Ringer or Morrelli ring owners is a different question.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Apr 11, 2010 12:53PM)
What's everyone's opinions about having Greg Wilson's FreaKey and Andrew Gerard's Key Accessory all on Pro-Flight's key ring? I'm not saying that you have to perform all 3, but maybe 2 of them? that's quite a few routines just on ones keychain!
Message: Posted by: sabitu (Apr 11, 2010 07:45PM)
You could also throw on Craig Petty's Keymaster. Four routines on one keychain is hard to beat.
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Apr 11, 2010 09:47PM)
Ooooooooo, even better! in all seriousness, how reasonable and manageable would it be to have these 3 or 4 routines on one keychain?
Message: Posted by: music (Apr 13, 2010 06:36AM)
I used to have a Bob Solari ring flite, is this anything like that in operation?
Message: Posted by: John Carey (Apr 13, 2010 10:19AM)
Anybody thought about an inside jacket pocket load of the ring? Think pen think clip...

John
Message: Posted by: caigy (Apr 14, 2010 07:04PM)
Sabitu, I ordered this hoping that it would tie in nicely with Keymaster. Then I spotted your post....I think/hope it will....as Keymaster goes down an absolute storm.

Paul Mc.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Apr 19, 2010 08:19PM)
So, I ordered this from Hocus Pocus last week Monday, and not a peep from them yet. I read on another thread that this item is backordered--is that true? Is it common for Hocus Pocus to back order an item without notice to the purchaser?
Message: Posted by: sabitu (Apr 19, 2010 09:31PM)
I also ordered this from Hocus-Pocus about a week ago along with some other things. I received the other things I ordered as well as a notice saying that Pro-Flight was on back-order. Not sure when it will ship.

Matt
Message: Posted by: VcosNJ (Apr 24, 2010 11:33PM)
Anyone know where I can get this? It seems it's still out of stock right now everywhere I look.
Message: Posted by: Keith Jozsef (May 3, 2010 12:03PM)
Any update on a re-stock date?
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (May 12, 2010 04:24PM)
Just got word from Hocus Pocus that mine shipped today!
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Dec 30, 2010 06:25PM)
Hi I am looking for a ring flight like this ..Is it easy enough to load the ring while wearing Jeans or would it make the load any harder.I want to take the keys from my front pocket .

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Dec 30, 2010 07:51PM)
Jeans are perfect for this. if taking the keys from the front pocket, I would possibly advise to have your shirt untucked to cover them.
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Dec 31, 2010 07:08PM)
Thanks lunatic,Can this be done with the key fob in the pocket rather than hanging out? I don't want to have my shirt tucked out (not my style lol) .

Thanks once again..And happy new year to all.

Shaun
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Dec 31, 2010 09:22PM)
I guess you could, but it'd have to be in loose pocket with room to work. I personally think it would take too long for it to be effective. You can do it from your rear pocket hanging out with no problems at all
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Jan 1, 2011 08:45AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-31 22:22, lunatik wrote:
I guess you could, but it'd have to be in loose pocket with room to work. I personally think it would take too long for it to be effective. You can do it from your rear pocket hanging out with no problems at all
[/quote] Thanks lunatic I might wait till Blackpool convention in FEB and take a better look.

Regards

Shaun
Message: Posted by: Floyd Collins (Jan 1, 2011 09:10AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-31 20:08, magicblademan wrote:
Thanks lunatic,Can this be done with the key fob in the pocket rather than hanging out? I don't want to have my shirt tucked out (not my style lol) .

Thanks once again..And happy new year to all.

Shaun
[/quote]
I perform it from my front pocket as a closer to my ring on string routine. I normally wear pleated paints when doing it, however I have done it causal for friends in jeans. When I do this from the front pocket, I hide the ring and do the work needed to secure it out of the pocket, this takes up less time in the pocket. I do not have the key-fob hanging on the outside of the pocket.
The time difference is not noticeable, I did time it and it takes about the same amount of time to remove the keys normal to start my car as it does to do the work in the pocket and remove the keys. I also do not show the ring as I am pulling out the keys, I do the transposition from my closed fist with the string in my hand to the key fob.

I have had this effect since its release and it has been a true worker in my ring to string routine. To me the back pocket never felt natural.

Floyd
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Jan 1, 2011 11:09AM)
Great info. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Jan 1, 2011 12:41PM)
Thanks Floyd , I too prefer front pocket because that's where I keep my keys..If I can get it work without hanging the keys outside the pocket then all the better.

Shaun
Message: Posted by: Floyd Collins (Jan 1, 2011 03:01PM)
I don't think you will have an issue unless you wear tight jeans that would be hard for you to put your hands in your pocket with or without doing a trick. So as long as you have a little room to work with jeans will be fine.

Floyd
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Jan 1, 2011 04:13PM)
Thanks for chiming in floyd!
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Jan 1, 2011 08:54PM)
Hi Floyd and lunatik ..Thanks once again..My jeans are not that tight so I may get this to try.

Shaun
Message: Posted by: Mal3 (Sep 5, 2011 01:32AM)
Great effect and functional too if you use it to hold other gimmicks.
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Sep 5, 2011 06:20AM)
I tried the front pocket, it was not as easy or fast as the original method described using the back pocket, after reading the above post using a front pocket with the keys inside, I played with it for a while, it justdid not work at all, so I'm sticking with Nick's original,

Dave
Message: Posted by: Mal3 (Sep 7, 2011 09:44PM)
Yes I feel Nick's original presentaion is all that's needed. Then you can go into the other routines explained on the DVD
Message: Posted by: hocuspocus (Apr 25, 2016 05:48AM)
Just a neat effect, getting it soon.. I heard this effect requires very little effort and can be learned easily, also requires a basic false transfer of ring other then that the gimmick is crafted so nicely it's unlikely anyone can figure this effect out
Message: Posted by: mh1001 (Apr 25, 2016 06:37AM)
A friend showed me the gimmick and I watched the DVD with him. I can tell something : the RFR by Dave Bonsall can do everything the Pro-Flite does (even the trick with the spectator holding your car keys). Also, the advantage of RFR is that you can show both hands before reaching to your back pocket. The only problem RFR has is the little noise it makes when the clip retracts after loading the ring. You don't have this with Pro-Flite. On the other hand, while you should not perform Pro-Flite when someone is behind you, you have no such problems with RFR (unless you don't wear a jacket). To be honest, I think you're paying more for the idea than for the material in Pro-Flite. If you know the method, you can easily buy such a thing anywhere. There is no technology here, it's a method so simple that you can get frustrated when you see what you get at the moment you open the package.

By the way, lot of people say Einhorn's ring and rope routines showed in the DVD are top class. I agree.
Message: Posted by: academy (Apr 25, 2016 06:45AM)
I don't understand why someone keeps talking about gimmick. There is no gimmick in pro-flight, it's just a plain keyring that you can find elsewhere. You are actually paying for the routine.
Message: Posted by: mh1001 (Apr 25, 2016 01:41PM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2016, academy wrote:
I don't understand why someone keeps talking about gimmick. There is no gimmick in pro-flight, it's just a plain keyring that you can find elsewhere. You are actually paying for the routine. [/quote]
That's exactly what I said. That's also why I can understand the frustration when you see what you get. For about the same price, you get Departure (which is gimmicked, I assume). For a price that is not low, it's normal for people to expect something very sophisticated and technological.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 25, 2016 02:05PM)
Bob Swadling said he did 12 protertypes before the final one so your talking rubbish to be honest about it
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Apr 25, 2016 02:36PM)
Rfr cannot go everything that the Proflite can do. There is one section if the routine that I just love and plays so strong, and that is where you show your key ring, no ring in view, they look right at your keys. One moment later their ring is with the keys, where they just looked.

Rfr is great, I use it too, but that moment above is just so special with Proflite.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Apr 25, 2016 02:39PM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2016, mh1001 wrote:
[quote]On Apr 25, 2016, academy wrote:
I don't understand why someone keeps talking about gimmick. There is no gimmick in pro-flight, it's just a plain keyring that you can find elsewhere. You are actually paying for the routine. [/quote]
That's exactly what I said. That's also why I can understand the frustration when you see what you get. For about the same price, you get Departure (which is gimmicked, I assume). For a price that is not low, it's normal for people to expect something very sophisticated and technological. [/quote]

I'd argue that is not normal at all!
Message: Posted by: warren (Apr 25, 2016 04:18PM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2016, mh1001 wrote:
A friend showed me the gimmick and I watched the DVD with him. I can tell something : the RFR by Dave Bonsall can do everything the Pro-Flite does (even the trick with the spectator holding your car keys). Also, the advantage of RFR is that you can show both hands before reaching to your back pocket. The only problem RFR has is the little noise it makes when the clip retracts after loading the ring. You don't have this with Pro-Flite. On the other hand, while you should not perform Pro-Flite when someone is behind you, you have no such problems with RFR (unless you don't wear a jacket). To be honest, I think you're paying more for the idea than for the material in Pro-Flite. If you know the method, you can easily buy such a thing anywhere. There is no technology here, it's a method so simple that you can get frustrated when you see what you get at the moment you open the package.

By the way, lot of people say Einhorn's ring and rope routines showed in the DVD are top class. I agree. [/quote]

The great thing about Nick's product is that he doesn't show the workings of the effect via video for the world to see unlike the RFR because at the end of the day as you said yourself you pay for the secret and the routine where as the public do not and as such shouldn't be able to view it's workings so easily :-)
Message: Posted by: mh1001 (Apr 25, 2016 06:54PM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2016, Robmonster wrote:
Rfr cannot go everything that the Proflite can do. There is one section if the routine that I just love and plays so strong, and that is where you show your key ring, no ring in view, they look right at your keys. One moment later their ring is with the keys, where they just looked.

Rfr is great, I use it too, but that moment above is just so special with Proflite. [/quote]
I saw this part of the video, and I know you can do it with RFR. You just have to give your keys to the spectator (after you have loaded the ring), asking him/her to hold it, but take care not to reveal the ring or let the ring touch the palm of their hand (that is, same thing as with Pro-Flite). That's simple to do especially if you have lot of keys to conceal somewhat that single ring. You can even cover the keys with your hand as well, and say you'll make the ring pass through the hand (that is covering the keys) and boom! you reveal that the ring is on the clip.

I insist that it is psychologically normal that people hope to get James Bond's gadgets when they pay a high price, even though it means that if the tool breaks, it's extremely hard to repair. While with a common, cheap tool, there's no fear of losing the tool and have to buy refills.

Me saying : "A friend showed me the gimmick and I watched the DVD with him."

I re-read my earlier comment, and I don't know why I talked about gimmick. It should have been tool/material.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Apr 25, 2016 11:50PM)
Pro-Flite is gimmicked. Not extensively but very subtly. And "...psychologically normal..."?? Come on now, you made that up, didn't you?! I own and use both mentioned props and to be honest I like Pro-Flite more than RFR. It's quiet, easy to load, and you never have any mechanical problems. (Though RFR hasn’t given me any issues either - unlike the three Departure props I owned!)

And I don’t believe that most people expect "James Bond's gadgets" when paying a high price. Ridiculous statement. Maybe people who don’t want to learn to do the work and instead want gadgets to do it for them. Hopefully those pups get discouraged quickly and give up on magic. Much better for well-practiced magicians to be performing for the masses!

Jim
Message: Posted by: videoman (Apr 26, 2016 12:50AM)
Pro-Flite isn't what I consider to be a high priced item. It's under $40 I believe plus you get an excellent routine on the included video.
RFR I would consider a high priced item however.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses so it comes down to personal preference and type of performing you do.
For casual performers who often aren't wearing a jacket then PF is usually a better choice.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Apr 26, 2016 03:56AM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2016, mh1001 wrote:

I saw this part of the video, and I know you can do it with RFR. You just have to give your keys to the spectator (after you have loaded the ring), asking him/her to hold it, but take care not to reveal the ring or let the ring touch the palm of their hand (that is, same thing as with Pro-Flite). That's simple to do especially if you have lot of keys to conceal somewhat that single ring. You can even cover the keys with your hand as well, and say you'll make the ring pass through the hand (that is covering the keys) and boom! you reveal that the ring is on the clip.
[/quote]

Thanks for your reply. I respectfully disagree that is the same thing. With Pro-Flite you can actively call attention to the key ring, they can see there is no ring there and then moments later without the keyring going out of sight the ring has appeared.

With what you are suggesting for RFR the spectator will just think it was already there and they just didn't see it due to all the clutter already on the keyring

Neither effect is 'better' than the other, just different. Personally I just love the moment above of something appearing where they have specifically /just/ looked. You just cant get that moment with RFR in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Apr 26, 2016 04:11AM)
It depends on personal preference . Both have their advantages . RFR requires a longer reset time than Pro-Flite , ( although both will not take more than 5 seconds ) . While RFR allows you to transport the ring to the keychain without the hands ever touching it , though it's more expensive than Pro-Flite . However with Pro-Flite , the keys can be shown openly and can be directly stared at to ensure nothing is hidden , and by placing it in the spectator's hand , the transposition happens in the spectator's hand .

I have both RFR and Pro-Flite . I'm not sure which one I prefer more since I used them interchangeably , depending on the routine I'm going for . While RFR can be done surrounded , it requires a jacket on preferably and a tiny little body movement restriction . Pro-Flite , though is angle sensitive that it's best preferred with no one standing at the back , does not have body restrictions and does not requires clothing restriction . However if used with a jacket on , it could be done surrounded . I've used Pro-Flite with Blazer on and done surrounded , and passed smoothly

Both are outstanding products . If one has a budget , go for Pro-Flite , if one has more , there's RFR to choose from as well , however again , it really depends on the situation one works in and preference .
Message: Posted by: Choi Sin To (Apr 26, 2016 06:14AM)
Http://youtu.be/OXWuVt1Uj8I
Alakzam review RFR and pro flight years before.
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Jul 23, 2016 07:32PM)
I had 2 Pro Flts, both had issues locking, I finally turned to RFR and at the same time, I tried Departure. After playing with both for a few months, I decided Departure suited me best, I liked the smaller size the most. It fit in my pocket very comfortably with my everyday keys.
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Oct 18, 2016 11:38PM)
I've been using Pro Flite for about a year with no issues. I get great reactions.
I have 2 sets of keys and I want to have the ProFlite key chain on both sets.
Finding the same or a similar key chain is not as easy as others may think.
You have to consider, Thread count, barrel diameter, spacing when open, chain diameter, chain size, shape, etc.
I've been looking for a while. Once I thought I found one but when I took it home it was all wrong.
I've been to Auto stores, Home Depot, Lowes and whenever I see a store that sells keychains, I check them out.
I searched Amazon for "keychain screw" and found hundreds. There are a few that looked promising but I don't want to buy them just to find out they don't work.

Does anyone know where to get them?
Does Nick Einhorn sell them?
I don't heed the Unicorn part. Just the metal ring chain.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Oct 19, 2016 12:50AM)
IIRC I believe that he had them manufactured to detailed specs. So I imagine you would have to purchase the entire keychain again. I can't see why he would just sell the device without the fob. However I could be wrong, so why don’t you write him and see.

Jim
Message: Posted by: On The Offbeat (Oct 19, 2016 04:05AM)
Ihop, with all the hassle and expense of trying to find something identical it seems easier to just buy another Pro-Flite, and possibly cheaper as well in the long run.


But more importantly, if you've gotten a years worth of great reactions with it and potentially many more years to come, don't you think you kind of owe it to Nick for bringing this item to market so you could enjoy the benefits?
I mean we're not talking about a $400 trick here.
Do the honorable thing and buy a second one. You didn't mention why you apparently don't consider that a viable option. At least you wouldn't have to worry about thread count, barrel diameter, etc. Why go to so much trouble to save a few bucks?
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Oct 19, 2016 09:37AM)
J-Mac,
I'll do that. I don't mind purchasing the entire keychain again. I went to Nick's website but his contact info was just for bookings. I'll try to find him here on the Café. Thanks for the suggestion.

On the Offbeat
Don't berate me for looking for a keychain.
I paid for the trick and I firmly believe in supporting the creators and B&M stores. I don't need to pay for the DVD and the secret a second time. Sometimes creators sell parts and refills for tricks if you have proof of purchase. I couldn't find the keychain on any online stores, including Einhorn's website'

There was really no hassle or expense trying to find something identical. I didn't make special trips to the stores mentioned. I would check out their key section if I'm there for something else. I don't understand where you got the idea "all the expense"?

I didn't mention purchasing Pro Flite a second time as a "viable option" because I find your suggestion wasteful. I'm not rich and on a fixed income.
I find your phrase "Do the honorable thing and buy a second one" insulting.
So get off your high horse and stop lecturing me about supporting the creator.
Message: Posted by: MazingMandy (Oct 20, 2016 09:52AM)
Ihop,

Massive overreaction. I bet if you emailed Nic he would give you a price for a spare gimmick. I have done the same with him in the past on other releases of his. He is very approachable.

Besides, they often pop up on second hand magic sites, not sure where in the world you are but MagicWeek has an active selling page, and there are a nub er of Facebook groups.
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Oct 20, 2016 11:42AM)
Mandy,
Perhaps I did overreact. Sorry to the members for that but he just ****ed me off.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.
Message: Posted by: Gipstein (Nov 5, 2020 10:46AM)
Okay, it is 2020 and I just got Pro Flite. Two things. First, the gimmick seems no different from the rectangular key rings with the spinning open/lock thingy that I can buy at Home Depot or elsewhere for a few bucks. What makes this different / worth $30 or so? And, for those who have done this, isn't it obvious to anyone looking at the ring how the key go on there? Have people ever just said that's what you did? I want to do this and love this, but in some ways the Flite gimmick seems more deceptive. Any reactions helpful. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: indomagic (Dec 17, 2020 01:57AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, Gipstein wrote:
Okay, it is 2020 and I just got Pro Flite. Two things. First, the gimmick seems no different from the rectangular key rings with the spinning open/lock thingy that I can buy at Home Depot or elsewhere for a few bucks. What makes this different / worth $30 or so? And, for those who have done this, isn't it obvious to anyone looking at the ring how the key go on there? Have people ever just said that's what you did? I want to do this and love this, but in some ways the Flite gimmick seems more deceptive. Any reactions helpful. Thanks! [/quote]

I believe that the Pro Flite gimmick key ring is not the same with the common rectangular key ring in the market. I do have both Pro Flite and Flite . The advantage of using pro flite the key is fully examinable and you got a DVD to do some of ring and rope routine. While the Flite is more easy to do than Pro Flite.