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Topic: Multiplying bottles
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 15, 2010 08:55AM)
Hi everyone, I have alsways wanted to perform a multiplying bottles routine, an I figure now is as good a time as any to start. I need help selecting a set. I have seen many different kinds, and need your professional inputs. Aslo I o not want to spend like crazy money on a set, don't have much to spare, but I would rather spend money on a quality set that last a long time then a cheap set that will break in a couple of months. Thanks everyone
Message: Posted by: Regan (Mar 15, 2010 09:03AM)
It's hard to recommend a set without knowing how you are going to use them. If you are going to use them for family or kid shows you may want to stay away from the bottles with alcohol labels. Kandu makes a set of Rootin' Tootin' Rootbeer Multiplying Bottles that will work for family audiences.

Regan
Message: Posted by: MichaelOzMagic (Mar 15, 2010 11:04AM)
I would suggest these Multiplying Bottles:
http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=232

This is a great set I use this set in almost every show I do! Also these are a lot cheaper then Rootin' Tootin' Rootbeer Multiplying Bottles. If you don't like the labels then you can just take the labels off and replace them with what ever labels you want to use. This bottles are also really well made!

Just my suggestion,
Michael
Message: Posted by: Caliban (Mar 15, 2010 12:28PM)
Both the sets suggested so far have been sets of 8 bottles (two nests of 4). The best quality sets are sets of 9 bottles (three nests of 3). I'd recommend looking at sets of 9 if you are going for quality rather than price - they look more like real bottles and the size difference between the smallest and largest bottles is much less noticeable. They also offer a lot more scope in terms of routines. You'll definitely need a set of 9 bottles if you want to base your routine around the popular Ken Brooke routine.

I use the Harries set, which are a good quality set of 9. Many people regard them as the best, though I'm not sure the quality is quite exceptional enough to justify the very high price tag. If you compare the picture of them to any of the sets of 8, though, the difference in quality is easily apparent. They are actually bottle shaped and there are none of the really obvious size differences between the bottles.
http://tinyurl.com/ycxnxuh
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 15, 2010 01:24PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-15 13:28, Caliban wrote:
Both the sets suggested so far have been sets of 8 bottles (two nests of 4). The best quality sets are sets of 9 bottles (three nests of 3). I'd recommend looking at sets of 9 if you are going for quality rather than price - they look more like real bottles and the size difference between the smallest and largest bottles is much less noticeable. They also offer a lot more scope in terms of routines. You'll definitely need a set of 9 bottles if you want to base your routine around the popular Ken Brooke routine.

I use the Harries set, which are a good quality set of 9. Many people regard them as the best, though I'm not sure the quality is quite exceptional enough to justify the very high price tag. If you compare the picture of them to any of the sets of 8, though, the difference in quality is easily apparent. They are actually bottle shaped and there are none of the really obvious size differences between the bottles.
http://tinyurl.com/ycxnxuh
[/quote]

these are beautiful, and they do look like very real bottles, unfortunately, way out of my price range.

the bottle from madhattermagic shop are more my price. I also found these http://themagicwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/findit.pl?x_item=LB1578&keyword=BOTTLE

whats the differences between these and the ones from madhattermagic ??
thanks everyone for the quick responses
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Mar 15, 2010 02:35PM)
Looks like the same set to me.

Jim
Message: Posted by: chmara (Mar 15, 2010 02:36PM)
You get what you pay for. Harries makes the best currently available in my opinion. It may be possible to buy a couple of "extra" bottles from them with an original set - and althogh expensive -- it offers the widest range of use and climaxes that I know of that are commercially available.

If you do not mind buying cheap junk to find out how it works -- and then replacing it on the way to perfecting your act -- be aware of the TOTAL cost -- and that some of the cheaper sets are easily bollixed up or sticky in handling after a few uses and knocks.

The two sets I have on my tricks for sale list (one eight piece with droppers, one 9 piece without dropper) were both mid-range for acceptable and consistent quality in use. I was heading for a matched larger Harries set _+ when illness took me out of performing --

And - at this point - I do not know of anyone making a "great" set for children with pop labels -- and I do not know many children in the USA who understand what glass bottles for pop look like.
Message: Posted by: 61magic (Mar 15, 2010 05:00PM)
Elimagic, if you are looking for a great set of lables for a family act Terry Elton offers a set:
http://www.themagicofterryelton.com/new_page_1.htm

Don't worry the details when it some to doing this routine for kids, Kids know what a bottle is by the shape, and the colorful labels are recognized by them.
I would start out with a modest set and if you find this is working well for you upgrade at a later time.
If you want to do a 9 bottle routine you can buy two eight bottle sets and keep the spares for replacements. This will last you a long time if taken care of.
I found most of the damage occurs in packing, transporting, and unpacking not during performance anyway.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Mar 15, 2010 05:49PM)
Years ago I acquired a set of multiplying bottles from an unknown maker. they are a set of 12. Two nesting sets of six. Needless to say the size discrepancy between the last six and the first was quite noticeable.

I got around this by altering my routine a bit so that the last six bottles would be of a completely different type than the first six. I end the routine by producing an array of fancy liqueurs that come in a variety of brightly coloured bottles.

I felt this was the best way to camouflage the discrepancy in the sizes and shapes of the bottles.

This is what they ended up looking like

[img]http://www.masterpaynemagic.com/props/bottles.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Mar 15, 2010 10:00PM)
That's pretty much the same thing I did with a set of double 4's. The first 3 are alike for the sucker Passe effect, and then all heck breaks loose with different kinds of bottles.

This shows most of the set with a few other things, like vintage Abbott's bottles mixed in.

[img]http://themagiccompany.com/bar_act.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 16, 2010 05:11AM)
Great ideas, and nice sets everyone, ive never heard of a twelve bottle set before
Message: Posted by: Rick Fisher (Mar 16, 2010 07:58AM)
We now manufacture a multiplying bottle stand that holds up to 9 bottles and the two tubes. It allows you to perform and then lift up and over bottles so they won't fall off.

Diamater of holes are 4 1/4" so will hold 99% of all bottle effects.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 16, 2010 08:11AM)
I made this wine bottle set in Japan.
my friend craftman made this for me.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Mar 16, 2010 10:55AM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-16 09:11, kh-magus wrote:
I made this wine bottle set in Japan.
my friend craftman made this for me.
[/quote]

He made the bottles?? Those are really nice!
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 16, 2010 02:38PM)
Those are beautiful, truly magnificent workmanship
Message: Posted by: MagicOzzy (Mar 20, 2010 09:17PM)
KH-Magus

That is the BEST set I have ever seen..I would buy a set like that in a heartbeat, absolutely fantastic!
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Mar 20, 2010 09:59PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-16 09:11, kh-magus wrote:
I made this wine bottle set in Japan.
my friend craftman made this for me.
[/quote]

Ok, I'm in. What's his PayPal?
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Mar 21, 2010 12:14AM)
Are they three or four bottle stacks?

If they are sets of threes...I'd buy a total of 12
JNeal
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 21, 2010 12:26AM)
I heard they are over 1K for the set.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 21, 2010 06:28AM)
I am sorry that my response is delayed! And please forgive me for my poor English. (I am Japanese.)

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, Michael,

Thank you very much. I love your bottles too!

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, elimagic,

Thank you very much for your kind word. I drew a plan, and a craftsman in Osaka (he is my friend) made it.

That has the perfect wine bottle shape and it is not lacquer. it's strong black powder coating. Also cap seals are not paint. They are real shrink caps.

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, MagicOzzy,
Hello, Doug,

Thank you very much.

Yes. we can make the bottle set for you. Require a 50% deposit to start make your bottles.

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, JNeal,

They are three stacks. (9 bottles.) But if you need, we can ready 4 sets of the 3 stacks.

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, Pete,

You are right. It is $990.00


KH-Magus

Posted: Mar 21, 2010 9:32am
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/bottle.jpg

This is a link for more detailed picture.
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Mar 21, 2010 11:11AM)
Is there a website to order from?
Also, what is the total height of the bottles in cm.?
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Mar 21, 2010 12:10PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-21 09:32, kh-magus wrote:
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/bottle.jpg

This is a link for more detailed picture.
[/quote]

KH-magus:

The photos are excellent but I have one question. Are the lips of the bottles made the same way as the Ken Brooke bottles? If you're familiar with the KB bottles you'll know what I mean.

Thanks.

Doug
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 21, 2010 05:50PM)
JNeal:

The height of the biggest bottle is 305mm.
and the height of the tube is about 350mm.
They have caps for carry a bottles.

I don't have a Web site right now because I am not in the magic dealer.
but I must make a Web site if there are many people who have interest in my bottles.
I will announce it if a Web form is completed.

If you are hastening the purchase of the bottle, PM me please.

***********************************************************************

Hello, Doug!

I think that there is a difference strictly.
I wanted to perform it at the parlor situation.

so I made the mouth of the bottle precisely.
There is no problem even if audience are close.
(Especially, the eyes from the top)
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 21, 2010 06:40PM)
Ken Brooke's Multiplying Bottles are Iodized on the inside as well. I can see from your photos, the metal shows in the opening of the neck. The inside should be powder coated as well to be perfect.

It looks like the opening is very similar to the Ken Brooke neck opening. Fantastic product! The price is not out of line as the last set by Rings and Things 2 were priced around $700.00.

What do the Tubes Look Like? Are they metal as well or plastic?
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Mar 21, 2010 06:47PM)
Hello kh-magus,

This set of bottles looks really excellent. I've only seen a few of excellent multiplying bottles sets that look so realistic.

The only point that shocked me a little bit are the lables. They're stuck quit high for wine bottles. On "normal" table wine bottles the border of the label is not higher than 2,5 to 3 cm from the bottom of the bottle.
But your set is so realistic, and I checked it out, this specific wine has the labels stucked higher on the bottles than all other general "normal" table wine bottles.

Really perfect ! Congratulations !

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 21, 2010 08:00PM)
Hello, wmhegbli

Yes. you are right.
I tried to paint inside with powder coat first.
but there was a problem.

Powder coat is very thick.
and sometimes bottles stacked it. Because my design is very tight.
We may have to paint it thinly with a lacquer.

Our tube is paper tube.
That is light weight, and very easy to handle.
The plastic tube is a little too heavy for the bottles in my opinion.

you can paint them easily.
if you want, we can paint it with the color you choose.


********************************************************
Hello, Oliver

Thank you very much!

My label copies the design and position of a certain bottle in detail.
However, we can ship them with brand-new stickers.
so you can put the label by your self if you want.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 21, 2010 08:15PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-21 19:47, Oliver Ross wrote:
Hello kh-magus,

This set of bottles looks really excellent. I've only seen a few of excellent multiplying bottles sets that look so realistic.

The only point that shocked me a little bit are the labels. They're stuck quit high for wine bottles. On "normal" table wine bottles the border of the label is not higher than 2,5 to 3 cm from the bottom of the bottle.
But your set is so realistic, and I checked it out, this specific wine has the labels stuck higher on the bottles than all other general "normal" table wine bottles.

Really perfect ! Congratulations !

Oliver.
[/quote]

My goodness, the man make the most perfect set of bottles in the history of magic and you are faulting the whole project because of a couple millimeters of label placement. Come on! No one would come up and bring a matching bottle to a magic show and measure label placement.

I have been in a package liquor store and labels are all over the place in placement shape and size. They are also placed on the bottles by hand in many wineries.
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 21, 2010 08:32PM)
Man I just keep looking at the pictures of tis set and my jaw drops everytime. They are just amazing. Someone should create a multiplying bottle set museum like the cups and balls museum.
ELi
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Mar 21, 2010 09:22PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-16 09:11, kh-magus wrote:
I made this wine bottle set in Japan.
my friend craftman made this for me.
[/quote]
That's the best set I've ever seen!
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 21, 2010 11:31PM)
I talked to the craftsman.
Now we start making a few bottle set.
It takes about six weeks by the completion.

This is my address.
admin@spellbound.co.jp

Our bottle is a little delicate because it is thinner than other bottles.
of course, it has enough firmness if you use it correctly.

You can use the authentic labels as you like.
Put boiling water in the bottle to tear off a label easily from the wine bottle.
(It doesn't work well in some bottles.)


******************************************************************************
Hello, Carlo

Thank you for the kind word!
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Mar 22, 2010 04:41AM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-21 21:15, wmhegbli wrote:
[quote]

My goodness, the man make the most perfect set of bottles in the history of magic and you are faulting the whole project because of a couple millimeters of label placement. Come on! No one would come up and bring a matching bottle to a magic show and measure label placement.

I have been in a package liquor store and labels are all over the place in placement shape and size. They are also placed on the bottles by hand in many wineries.
[/quote]

I think I got misunderstood :

I'm not faulting the whole project, I'm just saying that the labels on general wine bottles are placed lower and closer to the bottom of the bottle. BUT : Concerning the label that kh-magus used, and his label is an existing french wine, the label has to be so high since on the real bottles they're placed aswell in the same spot as kh-magus did. So they're really looking perfect.

When I said that the height of the label shocked me at first, I was just referring to general wine bottles, that you see mostly in shops for sale, where the lables are lower. Since I'm living in France, the country of wines and champagnes, it popped into my eye right away, when I saw his set, because I didn't know this kind of wine yet.

But it has to be like this to make the Chβteau La Verriθre look perfect.

Of course you're right, since I believe aswell that nobody will attemp to see a magic show with a bottle of wine in his jacket.

When I'm using "gimmicked common objects" in my show to do magic with I like them to look as real as possible. Even if the chances are very low, you never know, you could have an expert of the used object sitting in the audience (a wine expert for exemple), which can tell the difference even sitting 12 feet away from the stage.
I know that magic is not a perfect science, but if you can make things look perfect, try to do so. To me it's important.

So to make it clear once again. This bottles set looks perfectly real, as if you would have the real existing wine bottles in front of you. You can't tell the difference.
An other detail which makes them look so perfect : They seem to have the bottom slightly wedged to the insight as normal bottles would have (at least it looks like), not like the cheap tricky sets where the bottle bottoms finish straight down to the table.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 22, 2010 07:23AM)
Oliver:

I agree on your stance to pursue to perfection.
That is the reason why I made this bottles.

and... you are correct!
The bottom of my bottle is not straight down.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 22, 2010 07:36AM)
Is there a performance video using these bottles before an audience? Do to the close tolerences do the bottles easily slide out without scratching the surface of the appearing bottle.

A lot of performers base their routines on the Ken Brooke instruction, a working would be well to clinch a sale.
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (Mar 22, 2010 09:01AM)
I agree. The minute I either a) see these in person or b) a performance video, I'm sold!
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 22, 2010 12:04PM)
Hello, Michael,

I will make a Web site in a hurry.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
wmhegbli:

I think that the surface of the inside the bottle is
most important to avoid scratching.

The inside surface of our bottles are smooth.
Outside is painted by powder coat.
I don't know a better way than it.

if you need perfect protection,
You can put the paper sticker or cloth on the inside the bottle.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Let me introduce about myself.

I am working as magic consultant in Japan.
and now I am teaching magic girls called "Primavera".
They are populor magician in Japan.

http://www.primavera9.net/index.html

They are also using my bottles.
http://www.primavera9.net/images/stage.jpg
so I may be able to show you their movie later on.

This is Primavera and I.
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/magicians.jpg

Top Left
Primavera with Mr.David Copperfield.
Haruo Shimada is my good friend,
and he introduced Primavera to David at 2007.

Top Right
with Mr.Franz Harary.
He came to meet them at last year.

Bottom Left
with Mr.Andrew Goldenhersh.
and left is my boss.

Bottom Right
with Mr.Mark Wilson and Mr.Greg Wilson.
We work together in Yokohama JAPAN at 2009.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 22, 2010 12:12PM)
My comments were about my concern for the turned in bottom of the bottles. Being turned in will created an edge that will scrap along the inner bottle as it is lifted, thus marring (scratching) the surface of the inner bottles.

Also this turned in bottom will catch on the label and tear it as it is being removed. Your close tolerances can create some problems in this area of working.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 22, 2010 12:34PM)
Mr. wmhegbli:

Oh. It was my misunderstanding.
(I am not good at English well.)
Thank you for your advice!

so You think that the bottom line had better be straight?

A trouble doesn't happen at the time of the present...
I don't know why. Our label may be strong.
(our label is not paper. polypropylene)

However, we can make the bottom of the bottle straight.
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 22, 2010 01:51PM)
I guess it is kind of the pick and choose sort of game. Having the turned in bottome makes the bottles look more realistic, but may scratch the appearing bottle in the future after repeated use, or, have straight down bottles the stop this(really further prevent0 this scratching from happening, although the trade off here is then they do not look as realistic.
Pick and choose boys. As for me, I would pick the turned in bottle and just be careful, but I cant afford them anyways.
Eli
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (Mar 22, 2010 03:19PM)
I don't think it's the turned in bottom that makes a multiplying bottle look realistic or unrealistic. To me, it's the color and label as well as the appearance of the neck of the bottles. That's what makes kh's bottles look so good - the neck along with the color/label.
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 22, 2010 03:24PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-22 16:19, MichaelKent wrote:
I don't think it's the turned in bottom that makes a multiplying bottle look realistic or unrealistic. To me, it's the color and label as well as the appearance of the neck of the bottles. That's what makes kh's bottles look so good - the neck along with the color/label.
[/quote]
I agree with you I on this, also, though, I think the turned up bottles does make them look more realistic. just sayin
eli
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (Mar 22, 2010 03:30PM)
Maybe up-close they do, but most audiences can hardly even see the very bottom of the bottle in the first place.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 22, 2010 03:39PM)
I have read some posts that want the turned in bottom, but really, when will the audience see this feature. Do you see the bottom of my Ken Brooke Multiplying Bottle set in my Avatar. If you are on stage or platform, the bottoms will not even be seen. If you invest in the Multiplying Bottle Trays from FAB Magic, the bottles set in a recess. And if you pay this much for a beautiful set like this why wouldn't you want to make sure nothing happens to them.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Mar 22, 2010 04:21PM)
A woman might wear lace panties, and most of you will never see them. But, it makes them feel good knowing that they are there.
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Mar 22, 2010 06:42PM)
Very funny Michael.

I must agree with wmhegbli statement. Since this effect is more of a parlor or stage effect, the audience will not really see the bottom of the bottles.

You can aswell use a table which has a little higher decoration frame on the outside, nobody would see if the bottles bottoms are straight or turned in.

Anyway, a perfect look is important, but the smooth and no scratch operating is aswell very important. On this point I have to agree with Michael Kent, the most important parts for a realistic looking multiplying bottles set are :

- the color and the general form of the bottle
- the label (recognizable and perfect match of existing product)
- the color and form of the bottle neck

kh-magus : Your set looks realistic and perfect, but maybe to perfect for a long and repeating operating time...(concerning the turned in bottom).

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 22, 2010 09:54PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-22 17:21, Michael Baker wrote:
A woman might wear lace panties, and most of you will never see them. But, it makes them feel good knowing that they are there.
[/quote]

haha this made my day thanks
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 22, 2010 11:48PM)
Good Morning!

Very interesting! It is a helpful discussion for me.
Thank you so much!

We also use the tray.
Therefore, it may be meaningless except when the bottle is lifted.

If you refer to durability, my bottle is inferior to other bottles.
The thinnest part is only 0.7mm!
But the bottom curve has the function to increase strength.
We use this for two years. There was no problem for us.
Of course, it will become dented if you drop it on the floor.

Please see this pic.
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/today.jpg
I take this picture today.

Of course, It is easy for us to make the straight bottom.
However, in fact, the turned bottom don't cause a big trouble.
Trust me.

Don't you think that the paint is still beautiful?
THIS IS A POWDER COATING.
Though I haven't done yet, exchanging of the label is easy if you need.
You can also exchange the cap seal easily.
Because we use the heat shrinkage cap.
The color of this cap doesn't come off easily.
so you will seldom want to exchange it.
Message: Posted by: WayneNZ (Mar 23, 2010 12:35AM)
Do you have a price for this new bottle set ?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 23, 2010 01:35AM)
Here is what he says on page 1 of this string.

[quote]
On 2010-03-21 07:28, kh-magus wrote:
I am sorry that my response is delayed!
and please forgive me for my poor English. (I am Japanese.)
*************************************************************************************************
Hello, MagicOzzy,
Hello, Doug,

Thank you very much.

Yes. we can make the bottle set for you.
Require a 50% deposit to start make your bottles.

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, JNeal,

They are three stacks. (9 bottles.)
but if you need, we can ready 4set of the 3stacks.

*************************************************************************************************
Hello, Pete,

You are right. It is $990.00

KH-Magus
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 23, 2010 05:33AM)
That's a pretty penny, but man do they look great.
Message: Posted by: Jef Eaton (Mar 23, 2010 01:15PM)
That is absolutely the most realistic set I have ever seen.
Wouldn't it be funny if the guy took photos of real bottles and is pulling a big joke on the magic fraternity.
I guess it wouldn't be funny to the guy who shells out $990 though!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 23, 2010 02:11PM)
Himber used to make multiplying bottles that looked almost that good. Unfortunately I sold my set to someone in Europe. Wish I still had 'em.
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Mar 23, 2010 02:49PM)
Kh-magus:

Would you be able to post a photo of the top openings of the bottles? I would like to see if they are similar to the Ken Brooke bottles.

Thank you.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 23, 2010 06:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-03-23 15:49, Doug Arden wrote:
Kh-magus:

Would you be able to post a photo of the top openings of the bottles? I would like to see if they are similar to the Ken Brooke bottles.

Thank you.

Doug
[/quote]

Go to page one of this thread, pics are posted, and a link to the other thread that has pics.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 23, 2010 07:08PM)
I also think that it is expensive.
But while hard to believe, I only get a small commission on this bottle.

The adjustment of the thickness of the bottle depends on a craftsman's sense.
He said that It's very very delicate.
We made the plate of the label which includes gold leaf.
and also It costs $300.00 to just paint 9 bottles.

In the beginning, I made this for myself. I love multiplying bottles.
but I wasn't satisfied with the bottles on the market.
We made the bottles regardless of expenses.
Though I was working as illusionist until 12 years ago,
(I will be 41 years old soon.)
I didn't compromise in the quality of the illusion at that time, either.

I think that Multiplying bottole is not easy act.
It depends on a character of the magician.
Japanese magicians must work on the various bad conditions.
Most of them never tried to make bottles within the repertory.

*****************************************************************************************************
Doug:

I have never seen Ken Brooke bottles.
These are my own set.
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/9.jpg
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/nest.jpg
Cap seal was torn off from the bottle on the market,
and I used them in this set.
It's made by metal and damaged easily.
Therefore, I am using plastic seal now.
I hope you like it.

This is exposed view.
I hide a file name a little.
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/kenb???ke.jpg
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Mar 24, 2010 12:45AM)
Kh-magus:

Thankyou, I was able to clearly see the tops of the bottles with those photos.

Doug
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Mar 24, 2010 11:43AM)
The ore pictures I see, the more I want to sell a whole unch of props and by a set, even though I wouldnt have a clue what to do with them. Someone said that it woul be funny if he was showing us actual bottles instead of a set of gimmick bottles. I agree, we would all be fooled. You should take a real bottle and a bottle from this set a take a picture of them together, I'm sure you wouldnt be able to see the difference.
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (Mar 26, 2010 03:02PM)
These bottles look amazing!

Is there a website to order from?

I think I'd have to see these bottles to believe it!
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Mar 28, 2010 08:41PM)
Hello magiclimber,

Thank you for your interest in our bottles!

I intended to sell our bottles to everyone directly for under $1000.
However, I went into the business talk with a certain dealer now.
A price may change if it is decided that they sell our bottles.

If it is not so, I will open our web site.
Message: Posted by: Thom Bliss (Apr 13, 2010 01:26PM)
I wonder if the bottles pictured in http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/bottle.jpg are a set of bottles, or a lot of bottles of the same size.

I see that in http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/9.jpg and http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/kenbrooke.jpg and in http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/today.jpg and again in http://www.primavera9.net/images/stage.jpg the bottles have different labels. Also at http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/kenbrooke.jpg the bottles don't seem to have all that close a fit.
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Apr 14, 2010 10:25PM)
I ordered a set today. Has anybody else ordered a set?
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Apr 14, 2010 11:19PM)
Hello Thom,

Our bottles are three set of the three nest.(9 bottles)

This is the photo of the bottles I can sell.
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/bottle.jpg
Other photos are the custom bottles which a real label was put in.

I sent a sample to a certain dealer at last week.
If they decide that they sell our bottles,
I have to stop selling the bottles directly to you.
(or I have to change the price)
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Apr 14, 2010 11:31PM)
All three size of the bottles are pictured in.

http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/bottle.jpg
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/today.jpg
http://www.spellbound.co.jp/images/9.jpg
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Apr 15, 2010 01:34AM)
Hello kh-magus,

Just a question : Would you be able to get made a custom set of multiplying bottles ? I mean not a wine bottle set but maybe in a different shape of bottles and or a much smaller set ?

Thanks.

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Apr 15, 2010 02:01AM)
Hello Oliver,

It isn't impossible. but I think that it is very difficult.
They need a new mold (three size) and it will be expensive.
Many trial and error are necessary so that all bottles may be fit correctly.

Our bottle is being made of aluminum disk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rR9efZphcU&feature=related
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 15, 2010 02:34AM)
Oliver is you have a real need for something different go to a high end metal craftsman and have them made for you.
Message: Posted by: illusions & reality (Apr 18, 2010 03:10PM)
So, how do you purchase these bottles?

Also, with 3 sets of three, how do you stack the 9 for the routine?

Please PM.

Thanks!

Lou
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Apr 18, 2010 04:39PM)
Lou, The Ken Brooke routine is designed for three stacks of 3 bottles. If you e-mail this guy he will get back to you in 24hrs. I ordered a set last week. Mike
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 19, 2010 02:48PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-18 16:10, illusions & reality wrote:
So, how do you purchase these bottles?

Also, with 3 sets of three, how do you stack the 9 for the routine?

Please PM.

Thanks!

Lou
[/quote]

What! Lou, you do not understand the workings of this effect. Being you are a Christian magician, I would suggest you look into the Rutton Tooton Root Beer set of Multiplying Bottles. Same effect, just not as offensive to some of your audiences.

The Ken Brooke Routine, once you understand the working can be adjusted for any set on the market currently. It is not hard at all, but of course you must do the work for yourself. From there you can make alterations to the handling.
Message: Posted by: illusions & reality (Apr 19, 2010 04:23PM)
Hi Bill,

Last year I actually purchased 3 sets of RNT2 Passe'-Passe bottles and haven't applied the labels yet. I'll purchase the Ken Brooke Routine.

Lou
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 19, 2010 05:06PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-19 17:23, illusions & reality wrote:
Hi Bill,

Last year I actually purchased 3 sets of RNT2 Passe'-Passe bottles and haven't applied the labels yet. I'll purchase the Ken Brooke Routine.

Lou
[/quote]

Wow! That is a lot of bottles, 27 Bottles to produce. I just ran across a routine in an old Genii Magazine by Lloyd Jones, he discribe his routine producing something like 17 bottles and tells of an magician producing as many as 30 bottles.
Message: Posted by: illusions & reality (Apr 19, 2010 05:21PM)
Hi Bill,

No, that's 3 sets of Passe' bottles, NOT 3 sets of multiplying bottles! :) A total of 9 bottles, not 27!

Lou
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 19, 2010 05:53PM)
I have a photo of Jones' bottle act. At the finish he walked out from behind the bar with a HUGE bottle for the bow.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 20, 2010 12:08AM)
Reading Lloyd Jones' act gave me a lot of ideas to include in my Multiplying Bottle routine.

His instruction reading and the way he introduced his act, it is more of a little play, then a show piece presentation to the audience.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 20, 2010 12:32AM)
I don't have that Issue of Genii. Can you let me know which one? It was so long ago I don't remember anything Lloyd did, but do have the photo. Jones was the FIRST magic dealer I ever met. Eventually worked for him, wrote for him and built my book collection through him (and Pat Page).
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 20, 2010 11:47PM)
Genii Magazine, Vol. 42, No. 7, July, 1978, Lloyd Jones is on the Cover.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 21, 2010 01:38AM)
Thanks, perhaps Ask Alexander has it online.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 21, 2010 01:47AM)
If you want Pete I can send you a copy of the article, I am currently scanning my 27 years of Genii Magazine and putting them on CD. I do not have the room for my my Magazine collection. It is a real job, but hope I get it done before the year is out.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Apr 27, 2010 11:16PM)
Hello,

Hocus Pocus will sell our bottles soon.
so We have to stop selling it directly.

Thank you very much!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 28, 2010 11:25AM)
Wm, Thanks much, got it. I just haven't followed this thread in a while.
Message: Posted by: illusions & reality (May 4, 2010 09:22AM)
Has anyone received these bottles yet? I'm very interested in hearing how people feel about them.

Lou
Message: Posted by: RayLum (May 4, 2010 06:50PM)
I ordered my set from Hocus Pocus. Paul is the best in the business!
Message: Posted by: TravisRobertson (May 5, 2010 10:37AM)
RayLum,

I don't see them on the website. Do you have to contact them directly?
Message: Posted by: RayLum (May 5, 2010 12:47PM)
Just contact Paul Gross at Hocus Pocus. He's going to advertise them soon. I just got the heads up on it and ordered them.
Message: Posted by: Acecardician (May 5, 2010 02:31PM)
Here is the best set in the world, in my humble opinion, 16 bottles! beautiful crome tubes!, the Multiplying Martinis!:
http://www.thetrickery.com/full/Magic-Tricks-Magic-Shop-Collectible-Magic-Street-Magic-1-Multiplying-Martinis__8888.htm

no longer made

I had a set when Stevens first had them, paid about $450 for them, sold them for about $425, and I thought I was doing good. I could not afford to collect back when I got them. I wish now I still had them.

[img]http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n329/Acecardician/16multbott1.jpg[/img]

ACE
Message: Posted by: illusions & reality (May 5, 2010 04:00PM)
The ones from KH-Magus look spectacular. I just want to hear from someone who owns/uses them.

Lou
Message: Posted by: zachman (May 5, 2010 05:26PM)
Hi Everyone
I posted in the other multiplying bottles thread, but this seems like a more appropriate thread to ask questions about them!

I bought three sets of passe passe bottles off a site called funtymemagic.com, where they usually have great deals on stuff, which works for me since I don't have a ton of extra cash right now. Anyway, I got the three sets for about $80, though they're not as good as the more expensive sets out there, with a little care, they're easily worth the price.

With getting the three sets, I've ended up getting 6 glasses. I was just wondering, has anyone every seen or know of a routine that also includes multiplying the glasses as well? I was thinking maybe like loading the glasses into one of the bottles, kinda like how you would in a cups and balls routine, so you end up with 3-4 glasses at the end of the routine. Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this?

Zach
Message: Posted by: elimagic (May 5, 2010 05:35PM)
With my cheapy plastic set of passe bottles( a few years ago) I would end with three bottles and three glasses. Although ending with more seems much cooler.

Eli
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (May 10, 2010 01:08AM)
Can someone please post when these start being sold at hocus pocus.

thanks!
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (May 10, 2010 03:38AM)
Their bottles were almost completed.
We will ship them to Hocus Pocus within two weeks.

Thank you very much.
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (May 16, 2010 07:08PM)
Just recieved my bottles. AMAZING. I look forward to putting them in the show.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (May 17, 2010 01:14AM)
Hello IDOTRIX,

I'm glad you like it.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jun 5, 2010 11:42PM)
This is the latest information.

Possibly, Hocus Pocus may not put our bottles on sale.
Of course we have already prepared their bottles.
However, I haven't ship that yet because they don't give me contact.

I will wait for them a little more.
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Jun 6, 2010 11:29AM)
I'm very sorry to hear that! Well, If you don't get a deal going with Hocus Pocus...I'm sure the many members will buy from you anyway.. Best of luck!
JNeal
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jun 6, 2010 09:55PM)
Thank you very much!
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jun 7, 2010 12:22AM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADL0BYcQDps

This is a video clip of the wine bottle act by "Primavera".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKV5_i5lpQ

and he is my friend.
He is also using our bottles.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jun 17, 2010 03:49PM)
At last, Hocus Pocus put our bottle on sale!

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/

Mr. Paul Gross says that in all his years in the magic business
he has NEVER seen a set of bottles like this.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/images/products/DSC00325.jpg

check this out.
Message: Posted by: RayLum (Jun 18, 2010 06:05PM)
I got mine in today and let me tell you, Extreme Multiplying Bottles by Keisuke Hanada is the BEST set in magic history! You could NOT tell from inches away! Much props to Keisuke Hanada, you are a genius! I would pay double for the craftsmanship!

Hey is that a EDF Orange Tree in your Avatar.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jun 19, 2010 06:10PM)
Hello RayLum,

Thank you for your compliment!

That picture is my orange tree.
I wanted the orange tree of surrounded version.
so I draw a orthographic views of structure, and EDF made the tree for me.

but my avatar was removed by Cafι.
They told me that Cafι avatars must be a photo of mine.
I have to ready another Avatar.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jun 24, 2010 09:07AM)
The first shipping was sold out in an instant!
Thank you very much!
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 30, 2010 10:01PM)
The Extreme Multiplying Bottles are now on sale at Hocus-Pocus. The price went up from $990.00 to $1,500.00.

At that price I would have to build a special case for them and hire a someone to guard them.

Would love to hear from someone that purchased the set, how the ultra thin metal holds up to handling. Do they dent easily when handled? Do they dent when set down on the table when performing the Ken Brooke Multiplying Bottles Routine?
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Jul 1, 2010 04:59AM)
That is a very important question , I noticed that the japaniese magician was very carefull with them ...
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jul 1, 2010 06:57AM)
Don't worry.

Of course, It will dent if it is hit very badly.
However, there is NO PROBLEM if you performing usual routine.
Our bottle is not so fragile as you are thinking.

I need more reviews except for the appearance of the bottles by the purchaser.
Message: Posted by: RayLum (Jul 1, 2010 12:55PM)
They are made like a tank (compare to others)! You will ONLY dent them if you mishandle them or dropped them!
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (Jul 1, 2010 02:22PM)
Kh-magus,

I do a modified 12-bottle routine. Any plans on making a 12 bottle set - or will you make a custom 12-bottle set?

Thanks,
MK
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 1, 2010 03:38PM)
WM: I would guess Hocus had to pay the $999 and shipping, hence the retail price of $1500.
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jul 1, 2010 06:19PM)
Thank you for your kind review, RayLum!


Hello Michael,

The advantage of our bottle is reality.
If you leave the bottles of present three size on the table,
Nobody will doubt they are the fake.

I think that bigger bottle is likely to spoil it.
Only one huge bottle causes a doubt to other bottles.
There won't be a problem at long range.

I will try to design of the bigger bottle again.
However, the design of the shape of the neck is especially difficult.
This is the reason why I hesitated to make the twelve sets.


Hello Peto,

Your guess is almost right.
We are hoping to have real magicians like you evaluate our bottles!
Message: Posted by: RickVancouver (Jul 6, 2010 02:14AM)
Hello Keisuke,

Question - what type of tubes come with the bottle set? From the photo displayed on Hocus Pocus, they appear to be cardboard.

The bottles do look fantastic though.

Rick
Message: Posted by: kh-magus (Jul 6, 2010 04:00AM)
Hello Rick,

The tubes come with the bottles are mere cardboard.
we tried metal tubes or plastic tubes.

But, we believe that cardboard is the best!
They are light weight, and never damage bottles.
Also you can use the tubes with caps for carrying bottles.

We wanted to paint tubes.
But, we given up not to increase a price any further.


Keisuke
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 6, 2010 11:48AM)
You can find tubing at placaes like Home Depot and line with fabric that has adhesive back for solid tubes that won't damage the bottles.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 6, 2010 01:20PM)
The bottles coming with cardboard tubes was discussed earlier in the string. If you really want nice tubes, just find a shop that deals with plexiglas, they can cut tubes to size and glaze the endges if you want. Cover with contact paper or the many sparkle contact coverings on th market. Dave Cressey Products usually has a very nice contact sparkle sheets that do not reflect light, so this will make them look very sharp and classey.
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Jul 6, 2010 06:28PM)
I have his twelve bottle set. It only comes in stacks of three for now
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 6, 2010 06:43PM)
[quote]
On 2010-07-06 19:28, IDOTRIX wrote:
I have his twelve bottle set. It only comes in stacks of three for now
[/quote]

Congradulations on your purchase!

That's as it should be stacks of 3, the perfect solution.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 7, 2010 06:48PM)
If you look on my web site... you will see the bottle routine using plastic tubes tht I covered with contact paper with a multi colored pattern. http://www.petebiro.com (wow, just got my 10,000th hit) OUCH OUCH OUCH :kermit:
Message: Posted by: MagicByRichard (Sep 16, 2010 05:51PM)
Greetings,
I have a vintage 9-bottle set of Multiplying Bottles put out by Metephso Magic - Amsterdam; at least this is what is on the labels, that I purchased some time ago and have been intending to re-sell when the time was right. I would like to investigate now so that I too can consider upgrading to a better set as posted in this blog. The set I currently use are from a suggestion I got from this wonderful Cafι' a while back in that I purchased two sets of the cheaper 8-bottle India sets and pulled the inner stack 4th bottle to get a cheap version to practice the Ken Brook Routine. Anyway, this gold set is well over 35 years in age and is made of a more quality heavier stock. Two of the three inner bottles has the ability to hold liquid. The silver tubes show light scuffs due to way in which prior magi stored when not in use. Please see attached pic if you can assist. Thanks in advance for any input.
Richard, weeberr@parmacityschools.org
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Sep 16, 2010 07:57PM)
As I recall, Mephisto's sets were quite nice. To upgrade? I would remove the labels and carefully spray them a color matching wine bottles, then get a set of Martini labels from http://www.nnmagic.com

Go for it.
Message: Posted by: MagicByRichard (Sep 17, 2010 07:49AM)
Thanks Pete,
And thank you for the correction on the spelling of the Manufacturer – Mephisto Magic. I copied from an old e-mail of the magi I purchased from in past. So what you are telling me indirectly is that as they sit, they are not worth all that much. OK, I can just sit on them another 10-20 years and hope they are worth more in the future. I just see what is out there in way of quality and get too excited I guess. For me, the bug of upgrading constantly is an issue – it drives my wife crazy. Perhaps I will even start using this vintage set. After some TLC – who knows? Thanks again.
Richard Weeber, Cleveland - OH
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 17, 2010 09:17AM)
Well, Richard Weeber, you did not ask for a price quote at what they might be worth, no did you. They are worth whatever someone is will to pay.

I would say the draw back on your Mephisto bottles is the color. People want somewhat realistic looking bottles. Namely the color of those bottles are similar to the original Rings and Things bottles. They made their's copper color also. I really never seen a booze bottle that was copper color.

What is good about your set is they are near the same size and still look good, if you have not used them then they would be in like new condition.

You should be able to get $300 to $500 for the set. Of course you need the original instructions that came with them as well. Mephisto Hus was sold many years ago to a company in Belgium.
Message: Posted by: wizardpa (Sep 17, 2010 11:05AM)
I'm not sure who made my set of multiplying bottles or even where I got them from, but what I love about my set is you can even pour liquid from my bottle into the glass on the right. Then magically, liquid appears in the glass on the left when you want it to.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Sep 17, 2010 11:27AM)
Richard.. I don't think you said you wanted to sell them. I think you would be hard pressed to find any as well made today without spending a fortune.
Paint and label 'em then use.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 17, 2010 12:06PM)
Pete, he does want to spend a fortune, he wants the $1500 set that were advertised on another thread. Hocus Pocus is selling them for the overseas guy.

Wizardpa, sounds like you have one of the last Ken Brooke items that Stevens sold years ago. They are not Muliplying Bottles, but Comedy Passe Passe bottles (3 bottle set). That is if they are green and have a flowing neck line. If so you have one of the best sets from Europe. They came with flexable tubes.

I suggest you get the Ken Brooke Comedy Passe routine as it is also a killer.
Message: Posted by: MagicByRichard (Sep 18, 2010 12:22PM)
Hi Wmhegbli,
Thank you for the kind information. I will need to weigh my options over the next few months. Your knowledge is invaluable.

Hi Pete,
This set is in such good shape yet, perhaps I will use a few times in upcoming shows and guage response accordingly. I really am uncomfortable altering them at this time. I found in past couple of days that the bottles took on a nicer shine and the tubes cleaned up better then I expected...perhaps I already have my ideal set to work with after all. I really love this web-site.
Magically yours,
Richard
Message: Posted by: wizardpa (Sep 19, 2010 11:50AM)
I have the Super deluxe Harries Set of bottles. I guess it helps to look at my box.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 19, 2010 07:38PM)
MagicbyRichard, I would diffently get the Ken Brooke routine, learn it and try it out. I just change the exposure ending and produce seemingly 2 additional bottles. It is simple once you learn the complete routine.

As for the set you have, it is made much better then anything currently on the market. They are near the same size and look really great. If you have the ability to pour liquid, that is an added feature not included with some sets and it can lead to combining routines, like Airborne Glass and Hydrostatic Glass tricks.

As I have always said, magic equipment is not worth anything unless it is used and enjoyed by audiences. I would much rather have a prop that was wore out do to constant use then one that was in prestine condition, and kept in a box for years.
Message: Posted by: Engine (Nov 23, 2010 05:56PM)
Hey there - This is a bit of a departure but aside from the the Ken Brooke, Paul Romhany/Reg Donnelley and Tom Stone routine s does anyone have a good finish for the trick?
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 23, 2010 06:07PM)
[b]Look at my finish,[/b] at http://www.petebiro.com click on VIDEOS and scroll down
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 23, 2010 06:24PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-23 18:56, Engine wrote:
Hey there - This is a bit of a departure but aside from the the Ken Brooke, Paul Romhany/Reg Donnelley and Tom Stone routine s does anyone have a good finish for the trick?
[/quote]

Are you asking that the production of a huge amount of bottles on filling a table top is not a good finish?

I can only ask, have you learned the routine and tried it? The finish is built into the routine wording in the Brooke routine. I cannot speak for the other routines as I do not own them.

The routine is fun to present, fun to watch and the audience members have told me they enjoyed the bottle trick. What more do anyone want from a trick.
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Nov 23, 2010 08:42PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-23 18:56, Engine wrote:
Hey there - This is a bit of a departure but aside from the the Ken Brooke, Paul Romhany/Reg Donnelley and Tom Stone routine s does anyone have a good finish for the trick?
[/quote]

Ron Wilson's routine, in which the bottles looked like J&B bottles, concluded with him lifting one of the tubes and revealing the glass now filled with scotch. He picked up the glass, toasted the audience, and took a sip as he walked offstage.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 23, 2010 09:31PM)
Those glass filling bottles are no longer on the market, wish I would have gotten a set when they were available in 1980. There was a comedy set that filled the glasses.
Message: Posted by: Engine (Nov 23, 2010 09:50PM)
Hi Pete..I looked at your video but I can't rollerskate ;)

wmhegbli - The large production is good but honestly it's a bit like a chopper in that there isn't a definite end per se...more of an applause cue...but not a solid punch. Of course I'm not trying to argue with legends. I'm just looking for something else.

The Ron Wilson thing is great.... Hmm...would it be possible to gaff the last bottle (or the first 'oops bottle') like Ultimate Floating Airborne Glass?
Message: Posted by: Engine (Nov 23, 2010 09:52PM)
...maybe I could produce a jumbo swizzle stick & cocktail olive....
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 23, 2010 11:04PM)
Lloyd Jones used to have a three foot tall display whiskey bottle behind his bar style table and just grabbed it and walked forward and hoisted it up in the air.
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Nov 24, 2010 01:30AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-23 22:31, wmhegbli wrote:
Those glass filling bottles are no longer on the market, wish I would have gotten a set when they were available in 1980. There was a comedy set that filled the glasses.
[/quote]

Ron made his owm out of one of the bottles in his set. You can find a description of how he did it along with a diagram in the introduction to his book [i]The Uncanny Scot Ron Wilson[/i].
Message: Posted by: kozmic kettle (Nov 24, 2010 10:46AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-23 22:31, wmhegbli wrote:
Those glass filling bottles are no longer on the market, wish I would have gotten a set when they were available in 1980. There was a comedy set that filled the glasses.
[/quote]

The current Harries set still has this feature. It has one bottle that can load a glass with liquid using pretty much the method described in the Ron Wilson book, although I had to do a few modifications to make it work properly on my set.
Message: Posted by: Edgar Alstad (Nov 29, 2010 03:58PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-23 22:31, wmhegbli wrote:
Those glass filling bottles are no longer on the market, wish I would have gotten a set when they were available in 1980. There was a comedy set that filled the glasses.
[/quote]

Actually I just bought a set just like that a month ago, without knowing it.
The bottles are marked with Harries company, but I bought them from pegani.dk
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Nov 29, 2010 04:58PM)
I disagree that the rapid production of all those bottles at the end is not a big finish. You seem to perceive the need for a finish or kicker that occurs in an instant. But final production of all those bottles is so rapid fire, I believe that qualifies as a kicker and also as a big finish. Maybe we need to see it from the audience's perspective.
I have adopted Bill's ending without the exposure and it plays great for all audiences.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Thom Bliss (Nov 29, 2010 06:27PM)
Big finish:

1) Do the multiplying bottles on a tray. At end of trick, assistant takes tray off stage, then we hear a load crash. (If you can pour from your bottle, assistant may have been emptying the glass as you go along.)

2) Put all the bottles in a big cardboard box, then pick-up box, allowing bottom of box to open, then fold up the box. (Similar in effect to a Himber trick, though you'd have to use a different method.)

3) Produce more bottles, without the tubes. Silvester the Jester has a method for doing this in his jacket-less topit video.

Thom
.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 29, 2010 06:44PM)
Body language and music are all you need to finish strong with the Ken Brooke Routine. See my ending at http://www.petebiro.com with a giant flagstaff production.
Message: Posted by: WayneNZ (Jun 24, 2013 12:51PM)
2 grand for the Hanada set now .Wished I had jumped in at $995.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 24, 2013 01:15PM)
This discussion is much like discussing the Chop Cup trick. In that trick, the finale of 2 large balls is revealed. What that does is make everything before the finale unimportant and causes the audience to totally forget about everything that has proceeded. In other words, there is no reason to do the Multiplying Bottles as it will be totally forgotten with a grand climax. Something to think about!

Additionally, the trick does not really create a moment for a shocking climax. Most magic effects that use a grand or shocking finale, are or were designed to be forgotten. Why, because they are the lead in or method to make it possible to produce the finale.

Having said that, I believe that only magicians would remember what has lead up to the moment of revealing the finale item. Laymen will forget and say, "He did something and then there was this giant 3 foot bottle!"

Just as in Dove Magic, producing a large silk and stretching and knotting it to prove it is totally unprepared, is not much of a trick. but when the dove appears, that is real magic, and all that has been done before is totally forgotten. It was important to proving how unprepared the scarf is, but not for the magical production of the bird.

As magician's we are looking for that huge shock finale, but one has to chose the right trick for that production. Just because it is logical to produce a large bottle because in the current effect bottles are being used is not a good enough reason to produce a giant bottle.

Just some food for thought!
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jun 24, 2013 02:48PM)
Hi Bill, gonna disagree with some of that last post.

I think the finale for the chop cup makes sense and is a logical magical conclusion to the trick. There were lots of balls, then we produce two giant ones. Ta da! The end.

The finale for the bottles has to be connected to the effect, so something comnpletely different or shocking would probably not work, as you mention.

The problem is that more and more and more bottles definitely does not provide a finale. I'm not crazy about giant bottles because that seems a little obvious, but it might work.

The Lance Burton version with the silk on the neck at least goes somewhere with the trick, but that is a very modest finale.

I don't like the argument that "presentation" can be the climax. I want a real finale AND I'm going to use great presentation!

Still looking...
Message: Posted by: RWhit (Jun 24, 2013 03:54PM)
The silk on the neck goes nowhere and is a waste of time.
It slows down the pace of the trick.
Ask me if I want to see Ken Brooke do the bottles or Lance or Mr Appleton.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jun 24, 2013 04:17PM)
[b]Ken Brooke's routine rocks.[/b]

It flows and builds and the timing/pacing kill, netting a solid, strong audience reaction. The silk bits kill the flow of the trick and IMHO opinion, Marconick created this kind of stuff to fill his lecture notes.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jun 24, 2013 04:42PM)
[quote]
On 2013-06-24 14:15, Bill Hegbli wrote:
This discussion is much like discussing the Chop Cup trick. In that trick, the finale of 2 large balls is revealed. What that does is make everything before the finale unimportant and causes the audience to totally forget about everything that has proceeded. In other words, there is no reason to do the Multiplying Bottles as it will be totally forgotten with a grand climax. Something to think about!

Additionally, the trick does not really create a moment for a shocking climax. Most magic effects that use a grand or shocking finale, are or were designed to be forgotten. Why, because they are the lead in or method to make it possible to produce the finale.

Having said that, I believe that only magicians would remember what has lead up to the moment of revealing the finale item. Laymen will forget and say, "He did something and then there was this giant 3 foot bottle!"

Just as in Dove Magic, producing a large silk and stretching and knotting it to prove it is totally unprepared, is not much of a trick. but when the dove appears, that is real magic, and all that has been done before is totally forgotten. It was important to proving how unprepared the scarf is, but not for the magical production of the bird.

As magician's we are looking for that huge shock finale, but one has to chose the right trick for that production. Just because it is logical to produce a large bottle because in the current effect bottles are being used is not a good enough reason to produce a giant bottle.

Just some food for thought!
[/quote]

I too completely disagree with this statement as well. Nearly everyone whose seen my routine leaves knowing more about quantum Mechanics than they did at the start of my presentation. The flash appearence of six bottles at the end dosen't negate or weaken the first three quarters of the presntation
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Jun 24, 2013 04:58PM)
Ken Brooke's routine is certainly designed and structured to be entertaining and in the right ands it can be just that but as well as the debate about it not having a kicker ending and indeed whether it ought to have one, for me the multiplying bottles more importantly lacks any strong magical element that astonishes the audience.

Indeed I have always thought that Ken Brookes routine can almost be thought of in terms of containing an exposure of the 'method'. (when just one tube is used to do the passι-bottle glass transpo) Even if you don't see that as being the case as magicians we are only fooling ourselves if we truly believe that the audience doesn't know where the bottles are coming from or more specifically where they are hiding out. The routining as good as drives the audience head long towards the the very modus operandi that is trying to be used to fool them.

Like I said, despite it not being a fooler it can still make for an entertaining routine. In previous discussions on this topic I've likened it to Dinardi's act where he produces seemingly hundreds of flowers from a single chest. The audience might not know exactly how the flowers are packed in the trunk but neither are they fooled by the magic of it. The audience is well aware of what's going on but none-the-less the sheer spectacle, number and relentlessness of the production can still make it entertaining. Not particularly magical or astonishing but entertaining and quite a spectacle.

The multiplying bottles fall (generally) into this category. As I said that's fine if that's what you're after... but don't lets fool ourselves more than we are doing the audience.

That's why I really loved the routine linked to in [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=508563&forum=8&38] this thread[/url]

Putting aside the ethical concerns regarding the producers of this set of bottles for a moment, this routining I think is a marked improvement in magical terms on the Ken Booke routine. Bill Appleton still doesn't feel like it has a strong enough finish (it does have finish and one that nicely calls back to the start of the routine but I can understand that this might not feel satisfying enough for some performers who want even more of a final kicker) but given that this routine completely fooled Jay Leslie, who does the bottles and knows these props extremely well, is a testament to this routine as having put the magic back into an effect that otherwise , while potentially entertaining, has..... next to none.
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Jun 27, 2013 04:17AM)
Hello All!


As to whether the trick is a 'fooler' is subject to interpretation. Is it a fooler on the level of a Himber Finger Ring routine where all the props are borrowed and examined?
No.
Is it as deceptive in method as a Malini Egg bag which is held by spectators and subject to limited examination?
No.
However, I can tell you that the successful Multiplying bottle routine is filled with surprises and genuinely offers a level of deception that produces such comments as :
"I don't know here you got all those bottles!" and 'Where do they all come from?" That is sufficient for me.

In the construction of an act, some tricks will be more puzzling than others and some of the less puzzling ones may still produce more reaction and post-show response. Such is the case of the Multiplying bottles...because the plot is so easily comprehended and remembered. What did the magician do? 'He produced a lot of bottles' is how they remember it.


Regards-
J.Neal
Message: Posted by: Herr Brian Tabor (Jun 27, 2013 04:50AM)
Well said, JNeal. I have a measured IQ of 146. I'm a smart cookie, as they say. I have also been a magician since I was 12. I am 27 now. The bottles trick fooled me until I was 23. I had been a magician for quite some time and the method just never occurred to me. I'm sure quite simply, it will fool some people, and not others. How many people it fools greatly depends on the performance and handling of the magician. I have seen lance Burton perform this effect many times. Then I saw a different magician performing this trick when I was 23, and the method clicked.

As far as the ending, I think this is up to the individual performer. It's kinda like arguing whether an apple or an orange tastes better. It's an individual preference. This depends on the routine, and how it is performed, and the tastes of the magician. I've seen great routines and I've always felt a sense of closure at the end of this effect, but that's just me. My handling involves a kicker load in the tubes, but it goes with my premise. Different strokes.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Jun 27, 2013 06:14AM)
Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for your post. It's always interesting to read stuff from those who have first hand experience of working the effect in question, as part of their living, repeatedly in a professional setting.

I'm know that the multiplying bottles can be performed in a manner that keeps the mystery intact... and indeed I posted a link to one such routine... and I of course believe you and am pleased to hear that it creates the post-show comments you mention.

And while I'm happy to acknowledge this I'm also aware of the many times I've heard numerous post-show comments from members of numerous audiences that have seen a magician perform the bottles where they have succinctly describe the mechanics of the effect in a few accurate, pointed and dismissive words.

My point is, to those that perform or are thinking of performing the Multiplying Bottles be aware of the potential shortcomings of this effect so you can ensure that you don't end up being one of those magicians that is fooling themselves with this effect more than they are fooling the audience.

The difficulty of course comes in recognising, when we look at our own performance, whether or not we are one of those magicians that is fooling ourselves more than the audience... as more often than not we are disposed to believe that the performance that is lacking is one performed by someone other than ourselves..
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Feb 21, 2021 09:52PM)
This is my presentation of the Ken Brooke routine, using a set of Ken Brooke's bottles which I had stripped, anodized and relabeled:

[youtube]t26HCnYvX8s[/youtube]