(Close Window)
Topic: Favourite card to wallet presentation
Message: Posted by: Stephen Long (Apr 8, 2002 04:23PM)
I'm quite sure this one hasn't been brought up before, so I'll go ahead and ask.

What is your favourite way of presenting your card to wallet effect?
Do you present the card from the wallet as a simple card to impossible location effect?
Or do you do something more?

For example, Ortiz has a great handling of the Mullica wallet in "Cardshark".
Effect: A signed selected card vanishes from a spectator's wallet while it is in his pocket and appears inside your wallet which has been placed in another spectator's pocket.
It is presented as something of a pick pocket routine.
I love the concept and I am going to start using it shortly rather than my usual: "Look, it's gone! Ah, here it is..." presentation.

I think David Acer has a card to wallet with a color changing back effect built in too.

How do you present yours?

Stephen
:carrot: :banana:
Message: Posted by: Jason Fleming (Apr 10, 2002 05:34PM)
I do Dan Fleishman's "Mama in my Wallet", and it kicks.

It's similar to "Red Hot Mama" but the signed card ends up in your wallet.
Message: Posted by: IanB (Apr 11, 2002 12:39PM)
I use Peter Scarlett's "Pimpernel Wallet" along with Jean Boucher's "Dark Card".

A truly Killer Combination.

I never leave it out of any commercial performance.

;)
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Apr 11, 2002 12:53PM)
I actually put this version I do in another section on the Solid Gold Easy action. Anyway, over the years I made a study on how people reacted to the discovery of the card and one time I just used a double backer and got the same reaction. No palming neccessary. Put a double backer in any wallet. Control their card to the top. Pull out the double backer and put it on the deck. Do a double. Instant card to wallet. Gets the same reaction. Try it once and see.
Greg
Message: Posted by: Dorian Rhodell (Apr 12, 2002 12:25AM)
Hey guys.

Greg, I have one question though. Why would you put a card on the deck face down only to turn it up and show it again?

Just a question.

Take care,
Dorian Rhodell
Message: Posted by: Russ (Apr 13, 2002 10:46AM)
Dorian,
I know this question wasn't directed to me. But the primise that I use is that I have to lay the wallet down. And the perception to the spec. is the card came from the wallet.

I know that it would look better for the card to come out of a zippered compartment and sealed in an envelope. But if you don't have $60 to spend on a BMK. The use of a home made DB is a good alternitive.

If I did paid shows I could rationalize buying one of those gimmicked props.

Russ
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Apr 13, 2002 11:23PM)
[quote]
On 2002-04-12 01:25, Dorian Rhodell wrote:
Hey guys.

Greg, I have one question though. Why would you put a card on the deck face down only to turn it up and show it again?

Just a question.

Take care,
Dorian Rhodell
[/quote]

Good question, Dorian. Yes, it's illogical, but you're thinking like a magician again. Just try it a few times and see if you don't get the same reaction that you do when you do it the hard way. It's very easy to break down a lot of what we do as being illogical at times. Why do we do some impossible card tricks with cards then suddenly have one sign to prove it's the only one in the deck?

Why do we do a lot of fancy handwashing when we vanish something when in the real world you would simply open your hands and turn them over to show how empty they are? Why do you ask for something to be written down if you could really read minds? Why? Why? Why?

All good questions, but sometimes I feel we ask things that most non-magicians are not even aware to ask. Case in point: Before Blaine the magic community had a lot of heavy thinkers who said magic is an art and will only work when great stories wrap your effects... well, Blaine's great story is, "Ya wanna see sumptin'?"

Most people want you to do a trick that works and if you can throw in some humor or a story that's a bonus. When they see jugglers they just want them to not drop stuff... most of the time they don't expect the person to relate how the balls symbolize the cosmos and by keeping them in constant rotation --yadda-yadda-yadda... they just want you not to drop them.

I know I might sound harsh and it's as if I think it' s not important to work on your character and patter and routines... I do think they are important, but not to the level that some think. I think Blaine proved a point I tried to make for years to fellow magicians: When most people meet a magician it is usually the first one they've ever come into contact with... at that moment, if you do tricks that work, you are better than Copperfield to them.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox because it's just a theory of mine that I've seen proven time and time again in my lifetime. So, to answer your question again, I agree that it is completely illogical to take a card out and put it on the deck just to turn it over... but before you completely decide that this will not have the same effect I would put it to a test: If you have some people that you can try this out on that have no magical knowledge then at separate times do the same basic effect... maybe one day do a card to wallet with a palm method then a few days later do a card to shoe using the DB.

Now ask those same people to describe both effects back to you. Don't give them any hints as to what you want to hear... just ask them to state what they perceived was the effect. Also, ask them to pick out which of the two effects was the most puzzling. If you do this to ten groups I would pretty much bet that almost all non-magicians would see both effects as being similar, but the shoe effect would be stronger.
Give it a try.
Happy Palming!
Greg
Message: Posted by: Paul (Apr 14, 2002 12:21AM)
re;
I think Blaine proved a point I tried to make for years to fellow magicians: When most people meet a magician it is usually the first one they've ever come into contact with... at that moment, if you do tricks that work, you are better than Copperfield to them.

Hmmm, is that the point, that some people think Blaine good simply because they have not seen a close up magician before? lol

To experience;
"Ya wanna see sumptin'?"
Can work for people that have never seen magic before (and not for others that are edited out), but as you said yourself Greg,
"If you can throw in some humor or a story that's a bonus."

You have some good points if not taken too far. Regarding the double backer on the deck, what the critics fail to realize, is that for most there usually IS a logical reason for momentarily placing the card on the deck, in good presentation you simply don't bring the card in view, place it on the deck and then turn it over. Usually the deck has been held in hand throughout, rather than being on the table, your hands are full, you may be placing your money away, your shoe back on etc.

There ARE many illogical things we do, but many can be made to seem logical. But I never did figure out why one card of three selected should be signed :) Should be all or none.

Paul Hallas
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Apr 14, 2002 12:34AM)
My favorite presentation is from a set of George Schindler lecture notes. The presentation combines "Homing Card" from Stars of Magic with a card to wallet finale.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Apr 14, 2002 01:50AM)
[quote]
On 2002-04-14 01:21, Paul Hallas wrote:

Hmmm, is that the point, that some people think Blaines good simply because they have not seen a close up magician before? lol
Paul Hallas
[/quote]

I guess I should make myself a bit clearer. What I meant is that Blaine's show mostly dealt with showing the experiences that normal people were having when they confront a magician for the first time. I think that just about any magician doing standard tricks could have gotten the same reactions. (It took about 14 hours of video to make the one hour you see so think about all the people he went through that were unimpressed.)

Once again, I'm not trying to say that the rule should now be to emulate Blaine and try to have a deadpan approach to all your magic, but I do think that we in the magic community think too much like magicians when we look at certain effects and points. Some times you have to try and think back to what it was like when you started and had no idea how it all worked... remember the first time a sponge ball appeared in your own hand?

Remember the first time a magician found your selected card? Remember the first time he restored a rope? Were you thinking, "Hey, these sponge things are easy to collapse so he probably is holding them back when he wants." Or "How come he kept flipping my card while it was on the top of the deck instead of just giving it to me? And how come he counted those four cards in such a strange way?" NO! You probably just said,
"Wow! Are you a professional magician?"

Take a moment and think back to a time when you were not a magician... what did you see?
Just random thoughts.
Greg
Message: Posted by: Russ (Apr 14, 2002 07:45AM)
I remember seeing a guy take a dollar bill and push it into his fist and when he opened his hand it was gone. Then he closed his fist and pulled it back out. WoW!

How did he do that? He must have been a real magician.

Russ
Message: Posted by: thelastdoctor (Apr 14, 2002 08:33AM)
Paul,

Your are my hero, but using your premise;

"There ARE many illogical things we do, but many can be made to seem logical. But I never did figure out why one card of three selected should be signed Should be all or none. "

"Hey, I use to do this trick with everybody signing a card, but it cost me a fortune in cards" :)

There is always Magician's "Logic" and a joke!

The Last Doctor
?who?
:stout:
Message: Posted by: phonic69 (Apr 14, 2002 09:32AM)
Well the DB conversation is already in full flight on the banquet pages if you want anymore discussion on that. Regarding my favourite presentation, Pat Page sets it up as a bet - I'll find your card first time or give you the contents of my wallet - obviously he fails to find the card and so gives the spectator the contents of his wallet - the card. Clever and entertaining, what more could you ask for?

Saxon :dance:
Message: Posted by: Paul (Apr 14, 2002 01:43PM)
I knew what you meant Greg :)

It would be a good exercise for people to go back and do some of the material they left behind years back, with the performing experience of the present.

Paul Hallas
Message: Posted by: rnaviaux (Apr 14, 2002 06:17PM)
"Dream Card" by Darwin Ortiz. This is the best. Though technically not a card to wallet effect.

Randy
Message: Posted by: Mark Ennis (Apr 14, 2002 06:32PM)
I'm with Dorian on this one. I don't see how placing the double backer from your wallet onto the deck and doing the turnover could even have the impact that you should get if you were to pull the card from your wallet and show that it is the signed card.

I think some of the more observant laypeople would question it as well.

I am not saying you don't get a reaction from doing it the way you presented it but, to me, that violates what Darwin Ortiz calls the "no contact rule".

The way I perform it is Paul Harris' effect called "Reflex". There is so much misdirection that you could perform the worst top palm and probably still get away with it (I am not encouraging you do a bad top palm, I am emphasizing how strong the misdirection is).